Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 430. Legal Education Access Pipeline: Removing Barriers to Diversify the Legal Field - Cindy Lopez

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430. Legal Education Access Pipeline: Removing Barriers to Diversify the Legal Field - Cindy Lopez · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm John.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: And I'm Becky.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: And this is the We Are For Good podcast.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: So welcome to the Good Community.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: So let's get started.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Becky friend in the house.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Total friend from the community in the house who has built something absolutely extraordinary.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: And we're not going to start with a lawyer joke, because that would just be expected, right, but can I start with something personal before I introduce our guests?
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Of course, so I want everybody to know.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: We had someone on the podcast that was like season two or three who had come in and talked about how do you create a conversation with your family around gifting and the things that are important to you.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: And so my little family and I sat down as a foursome and we all went around the table and said what is the one issue that I care the most about?
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: You know, for me it was empowering girls and women.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: My eldest daughter was the environment, my youngest daughter was animals and my husband family law attorney.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: He said you know what?
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I have never thought about it, but my passion is really legal aid.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: And he said I go to the courtroom every day and I look at people who do not have access to great legal care And it's usually because they're marginalized in some way and it destroys me, because I know that if they had great representation, their entire life would be different.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: And so we as a family decided to like pour some philanthropy into that just a little bit, and then you bring in Cindy Lopez.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Cindy Lopez, our guest, who doesn't just pour a philanthropy into it.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: She built a movement around addressing this entire issue, and so we are positively delighted today to have someone whom we've met in the community I think we met through community and coffee and we're just delighted to introduce everyone to Cindy Lopez.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: She is a nonprofit founder of legal education access pipeline, which we're going to call Leap for short today, and she is just this fascinating journey.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: She spent more than three decades, you know, as deputy attorney general for the California attorney general's office and 13 years in leadership and the college access nonprofit space, and she founded this incredible organization to build access to law school education for people that are unrepresented in the field, and she just observed this acute need for this type of funding and programming in Southern California And she was like you know what I'm going to build?
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: the dang thing.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: So she just drew on her wealth of leadership experience in the legal arena and in the nonprofit college access field And she is taking California attorneys and all of these aspiring attorneys by storm, and so Leap began its first fellowship cohort in January 2020.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: God bless you, my friend, and God bless any founder who starts their nonprofit in early 2020.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: And so each fellowship cohort they run for nine months.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: They involve a series of workshops that are coupled with mentoring from a law student And from a lawyer, visits to courtrooms and law offices and moot court competitions.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: And so she is literally building this incredible pipeline of people who are going to fill, fulfill this need and this gap that my husband literally talked about two years ago when we had this conversation.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Cindy, you have cast the first ripple.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: We are so dang proud of you.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: We cannot wait to learn more about this.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Thanks for coming on the podcast.
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, this is so funny.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: Every time I listen to your podcast and the guests always say Hey, can you follow me around and introduce me every time I'm in a meeting.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: Now I know what they mean.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that was great, thank you.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Can we also talk about Cindy's hobbies, because this is at the end of your bio and I'm so obsessed.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Why didn't I read this?
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Please say it in her free time, cindy loves to travel.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, kindred spirit, run at the Rose Bowl, listen to live music under the stars at the Hollywood Bowl and cheer on LA sports in their spare time.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, cindy, you're so cool, can we be your friend forever?
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: John, was it really that LA sports fan that really gripped you and really appealed to you?
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: I said those things about you.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: They are all true, but we want to get to know, like the Cindy behind the bio, the Cindy behind what people see on your website.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Talk to us about, like, how you grew up and how you got a passion for this work.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: So I grew up in Orange County, california.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: My parents were divorced when I was in middle school.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: I have two sisters really close to my family.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: I wasn't the first to go to college.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: My dad went to college, my mom didn't, but I lived with my mom.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: So when I applied to college I had no help at all.
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: We had a pretty you know, a pretty normal upbringing.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: But when I was in seventh grade I decided to become a lawyer and The way I decided, by the way, is not great career advice.
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: But there was some show on and I couldn't even tell you what the show is.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: It was a lawyer show and there was a woman prosecutor who I just loved.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: I thought she was amazing and I'm like, oh, i want to do that.
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: That's literally how I decided to become a lawyer.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: Love it.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: But no one in my family to this day went to law school.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: So I had no help with that.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: But ever since seventh grade, that was my goal.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: And so through middle school, through high school, through college, that was my end goal.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: And then I took a year off in between college and law school.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: And the funny thing is my grandmother who again knew no lawyers she was like why are you taking any time off?
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: You're never going to go back to law school.
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: And I said, grandma, you don't understand, this is a lifelong goal of mine.
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: And then I moved to LA.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: I moved in with my dad, so I hadn't lived with my dad since seventh grade And that was fun.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: That's another webinar.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: And we lived in Manhattan Beach, which I couldn't even enjoy.
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: It's this great city.
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: But I was in law school.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: I went to Loyola Law School.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: I'm one of those nerdy people.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: I actually liked law school.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: I made some great friends.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: I am still to this day And this is where I would tell any law student you are going to make lifelong friends from your first year of law school Lifelong.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: I have a whole community of really close friends.
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: And then went to Loyola.
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: During law school I clerked at the AG's office.
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: I ended up starting there.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: And another piece of career advice I had no idea that I was going to be at my office my entire career.
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: That was not planned, but it was a really good career.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: Public services are really high calling.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: I really believe strongly in it.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: I prosecuted doctors lots of fun stories there.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: I ended up writing a statute that went into law like the end of my career.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: That was really cool.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: So yeah, that's how I got to law.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: I mean it's so fun to sit at this point of your journey to look back and see how everything has led up to this founding of LEAP.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: And I want to talk a little bit about LEAP's impact right out of the gate, because how cool that y'all have just ended a third cohort with 48 fellows both in Southern and Northern California.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: And just to give a lens, i mean this we're talking about first generation students of color, low social economics, standing in the LGBTQ community And you're partnering with them to assist with their law school application journey.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: So I just think of like little Cindy that needed help.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Now you are like paying that forward in spades And at such a multiple too.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: talk about the inspiration of how you decided to do this and how you went after this cohort model, specifically when you went into start LEAP.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: When I was at the AG's office I had volunteered for another organization, a college access organization called Most, and at the time we just helped middle school girls with kind of career stuff.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: And several years later and I got on the board right away.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: For some reason I can't just join things, i have to like run them, which is I get that from my mom.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: It's a very part of her, It's a bad and good.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: It's so annoying that we do that It's annoying.
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: I totally relate to that.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: And then I'm like what am I doing with my life?
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Whoops.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Oh man, i love it Yeah.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: And I get that from my mom Total DNA from my mom.
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: But I developed the college access organization So we helped underserved girls get into college.
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: I had no idea that all of that experience was going to lead to LEAP And I firmly believe that that was the genesis of LEAP.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: Many years I basically ran a nonprofit while I was practicing law.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: I did the fundraising, i went to conferences.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: So I very much believe in personal development.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: I had to learn about how you help people get into college, had to learn about the SAT and the ACT, yuck, how to write a personal statement, everything that you do to get into college.
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: And again, it was very personal because I had no help.
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: To this day I tell our fellows I have no idea how I got into law school.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: So I took all of that experience and knowledge And when I decided to retire I knew I wasn't going to just sit around.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: My friends and family keep telling me stop telling people you're retired, because you are the most not retired person.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: So I developed in my head this idea of helping underrepresented, marginalized students who are first generation who, like me, would have absolutely positively no help.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: But I also want our tagline is we're changing the face of the legal profession, like we're literally changing the face.
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: So that was the impetus, but I also and I know you can relate to this, this is going to sound so lofty I really wanted to have an impact on the world.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: I wanted to leave a legacy And for me, with my background and my experience and knowledge, the best way to leave that legacy is to help these students get into law school.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: One of the things I talk about with them all the time also is this idea of intergenerational wealth and transforming their families And literally these students.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: When they become lawyers whether they work in big law firms or public interests or government they're going to be making more money than any one of their family has ever made And they're going to be able to help their families in ways that they can't see right now.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: And it's going to be transformational And that's another word.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: I know it's used a lot, but it really is.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: This is transformational work for their families, for the law profession, for our communities.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: So that's the trajectory.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: That's why that was the impetus.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, what a completely revolutionary idea.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: And I don't want you to diminish in any way the word transformational, because you get to see it on the front lines, or diminish the fact that you had this dream, because you know what y'all I mean.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: I think we hear the word legacy a lot in this profession, and I mean we use it prolifically in the plan giving arena or in campaigns when people are making major gifts.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: But to me, the key component of legacy is just what you talked about, which is taking whatever unique gifts that I have been hardwired to understand, to be able to give to this world, and I put an output out there in some form or fashion.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: That could be you volunteering, that could be you starting a fricking nonprofit, like you have And you've dived into it, and I really appreciate that you put that aspiration out there, because I think so many of us in the space who are listening to this episode and pour into community that's what we're chasing, that's the hard stuff we're chasing.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: We want to change the world, we want to leave it better because of the gifts we've been given.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: And the question that is just hanging all over me, as I'm picturing my husband in his role, is how the heck does somebody move from attorney to nonprofit founder And what does that journey look like And what have you learned in that?
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: So no one told me that I was starting a business, that I was starting a startup.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: It is You were Right Nonprofit.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: Just because you're not making money doesn't mean it's not a business.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: I mean that is the biggest takeaway I have from this.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: No one told me that When I talk about Leap with my family, my sister, marguerite, has always said to me I told you that this was not going to be a little part-time gig.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: Like what were you thinking?
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, you have to get a board.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: You have to.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: I mean there's just so many different parts Social media, personal development, funding, donor retention.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: If I go to one more webinar about donor retention and donor stewardship, I'm going to put a fork in my eye.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: I mean there's just so many aspects that I didn't know.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: But I have to say I don't know why.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: It kind of comes naturally to me Like this programming, putting this program together, putting the cohorts together, doing a cohort model, having mentors, having law firm sponsors that literally came to me overnight.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be honest.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying it's easy to run, and who knew?
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: Who knew that In March of 2020, after we had two in-person workshops at Loyola Law School that I was going to be becoming a Zoom expert overnight, just like the rest of the world.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: By the way, right, that was very interesting doing this during COVID, and here's what I also have learned about that Doing things on Zoom to me is not a really fun or easy way to create community.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: We had no choice.
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: But I can tell you there's a huge difference between the like.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: The second cohort we had was all on Zoom.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: Last year we expanded to Northern California, so now we have two chapters and we do this hybrid model where if I'm in person in LA, our students in Northern California are watching it on Zoom and vice versa.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: There's a huge difference in those cohorts and how close they are, because they get to see each other in person And they're building a community.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: That's the one thing I would say.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: Of all the things I've learned, the coolest, most organic thing I've learned is they have developed community without me.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: It is organic.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: They have these group me texts and they're always saying "'Cindy, do you want to be on it'.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: I'm like, no, no, you guys can chat about me, you can do whatever you want.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: I don't need to be involved in that, but every single year.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: This is our fourth cohort, so we have 51 students this year and every single year.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: It is so touching how close they are because they all have these lived experiences that are similar.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: Like I said, they're all first gen, mostly students of color.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: They come from backgrounds that are not well.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: They're not represented yet, unfortunately enough, in the legal profession.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: But that was the coolest thing is how community was built organically.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Well, you know that's such a heartbeat around here from listening to the show about the power of community And I just think of your own story, of just talking about that first year of law school, how you felt so bound together And I'm like you're creating that.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: You're creating these layers that are gonna insulate these students with relationships that in 10, 15, 20 years, the amount of network that they're gonna have because of this, it's just it's giving me chills to think about.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: And so you've kind of teased talking about these cool partnerships that you've formed with different law offices or law firms and different funders.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: I want you to talk about how you have really leveraged those partnerships to create the sustainable funding for your nonprofit.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: I think it's really innovative And it is playing to all these values that we talk about on the show and you're doing this in real time, So I'd love for you to walk through what those partnerships look like.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: Well, i'm glad you think it's sustainable.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: I'm hoping it's sustainable So because we're putting it out into the world.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah that's it, thanks.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: So when I created LEAP, i wanted to create a scalable model from the beginning.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: So my and I'm just putting this out in the universe I'm manifesting my vision is to have this be national.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: I wanna go back East, but of course, the only way you do that is with funding right.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: We just hired our first director of development, which is freaking exciting.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: I have one part-time employee who's our program coordinator And, by the way, i can't believe I'm a boss.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: That's just weird.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: You're so boss too.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: That sounds like me Like.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: I'm always looking around for an adult.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, i can't believe.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: I'm like, oh me.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: But the idea is, i wanted to have this model of funding where, if I now wanna go to the East Coast, i can take that model and say, okay, i need a law school, right, so I need a law school to host.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: I need big law firms And, let's be honest, big law is the least diverse of all the sectors.
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: They talk a lot about being you know about DE and I.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: Well then, put your money where your mouth is big law firms And, by the way, we have some great law firm funders.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: But I also need, of course, individual donors and then corporate funding.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, it's the diversity portfolio, but I did that on purpose.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: I started with these law firms and there's something called this is gonna be getting the weeds, but there's something called the Mansfield Rule And the idea is big law firms need to interview and hire a certain amount of associates who are women, who are people of color, and I think they've added now LGBTQ+.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: There's a whole movement Like, if you Google Mansfield Rule, there's a whole movement about it and law firms get certified And now corporations like a Google, a Facebook, require certain amount of like when they're doing a pitch.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: They require a certain amount of attorneys to be of color And it's not just the pitch, like they have to actually then work on their cases.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: So I looked on that list and I thought, okay, let me go to these Mansfield certified law firms because I don't have to talk to them about DNI, they already know.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: Cause it is a little frightening to explain to a law firm, like why I'm doing this work.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: It's like no, if I have to explain it to you pass.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: So I'm trying to get more law firms.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: I'm now trying to get, like I said, more foundations.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: But again, the idea is it's scalable, so that when I go to another chapter, another geographic area, i can do the exact same thing.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: You know what my dream is, cindy?
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: My dream is that five years from now, you come back on the We Are For Good podcast because you have figured out this framework or model.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: It has taken off, it is organically, to your word, again grown and rippled into communities.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Because I gotta connect this back to this conversation that we've had the last probably six, seven months about mass incarceration.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: You know, we had JJ Velasquez on the podcast who was wrongfully incarcerated for 23 years.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: We had Mark Howard on from the Frederick Douglass Project for Justice, and when I think about how I've been educated in those episodes about the mass disparity well, one of just the incarceration problem that's everywhere in the United States And I can tell you we sit in Oklahoma, which has the highest female incarceration rate in the country, and there's disproportionately people of color, people who are in poverty in law, in prison, and we have got to have attorneys, to your point, that understand the lived experience, that can absolutely connect and relate with their clients, and when you don't see someone that looks like you understands what you've been through, it is a much harder hill to climb.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: And so I just commend you because if I were going to take anything away from this conversation today that I think I would want founders to know, especially as they're building something, is you were forced to start with building community, digital community, and it freaking worked Like it worked for you.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: And can I speak to?
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry, i don't mean to interrupt.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: Yes, go, go, go.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: So In our first cohort we had it was our first formally incarcerated fellow named Ruben.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: Ruben was wrongfully convicted.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: He was in solitary confinement for 10 to 12 years.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: He went.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: Then he went to community college.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: He went to Pomona College, which was one of the top liberal arts colleges.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: When I met him he would not stop talking.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: And I'm like Ruben, you got to stop talking.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: Well, hello, he was in solitary confinement for so many years.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: This year he is going to University of Michigan Law School.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: He is going to a top freaking 10 law school.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: We have Blake who was going to UCLA this year formally incarcerated, was a heroin user, has turned his life around.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: I could go on and on about and that's just our formally incarcerated.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: We have immigrants, we have DACA students, we have so many students who have these marginalized experiences And now when they go to court or when they're on the bench, or when they're a public defender, a prosecutor and the defendants they're going to be able to relate to their attorney.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, i could go on and on about the stories of our fellows because they're so remarkable.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: I mean I'm already tearing up because I just I believe this is deeply important.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: You talking about the DACA kids coming in to be attorneys is just like, oh my gosh, what an incredible full circle moment.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: This is hope, This is humanity, And it matters.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: When you see someone, when you don't see a heroin addict, you see someone who's going to UCLA Law School to change the world that you don't see, somebody who is in solitary confinement for 10 years, You see somebody who is going to come and equalize.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: I mean there is power in that And I think the challenge for all of us is how are we seeing beyond these labels to accept people and build spaces of belonging to allow them to rise to their greatest potential?
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: So thank you for saying that And thank you for just letting me get on my soapbox a little bit, But I just want to talk about, talk to us about these fellows.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: I want to know a story Talking about the impact Leap has made.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: You've kind of just teased us a little bit with letting us get to know these two men, But talk about the I'm going to use your word transformation and what has really stayed and lit you up.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: So of course Ruben and Blake are two people that come to mind.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: So another one, adrian.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: He was in our second cohort.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: He had applied to law school.
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: He did not well on the LSAT.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: I could go on and on about my feelings about the LSAT, but we're recording, so I will not say I'm just saying such a barrier for these students.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: But so he, this student, found out about Leap.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: He had served time and he wasn't wrongfully convicted, he had served 20 years.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: He's in his 40s And, oh my gosh, i love this story.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: So joins Leap and he was just very frustrated He wasn't getting into law school.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: So last year I was on vacation and I remember that vacation because it's when the Roe v Wade case was overturned, so I remember it very distinctly.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: And he called me and he's crying And he said he told me that he had just gotten into law school.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: He would have sorry, he would have never in a million years gotten into law school And he thanked me profusely.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: I got off the phone and my friends are like what, excuse me, what is wrong with you?
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: And I told him this story.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: He's now at Southwestern, which is a law school here in LA.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: He just finished his first year.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: He's going at night.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: He works for a foundation during the day, but he told me that without Leap he would not have gotten into school.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: And I mean, i get these stories all the time.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: My favorite part, my favorite time of year by far, is December, january and February, when these fellows are calling me on the phone to tell me that they got into law school, and my normal reaction is to I usually say the F word.
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: I'm super classy.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: We cry, we laugh And this is what they always say to me Cindy, thank you for Leap.
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: If it wasn't for Leap, i would not have gotten into law school.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: When I'm frustrated during the year, when I'm chasing them and just working hours that I really don't want to work, i think about these phone calls and I'm like that's why I do it, this is why I do it.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: I mean, i have so many more stories.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: We have a young man who's about to start at Columbia, so we have two Ivy Leaguers.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: This fall His mother immigrated to the United States to make a better life for him.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: Right, she took a very dangerous journey and now He gets to go to a top law school that, by the way, it's not an institution that even had him in mind when that institution was created and I know he'll change.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: I know he'll change the world.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: I mean for God's sake.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: So I mean I have many of these.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: So sorry for the tears, but that's why I said I you can't help but like Be so happy and so proud when they call me.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: And now we have students who are going into their third year of law school.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: So our first cohort just finished their second year, so in a year from now they're gonna be graduating.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: So I'll be going to graduations and crying like a big baby.
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: They're already doing work and internships, like working for legal aid, doing community redevelopment, working for the public defender, like they're already Making an impact.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: And they're not even lawyers yet.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: Can you imagine the ripple again five years from now?
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Can you imagine It's?
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: incredible.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: I'd like to imagine We're crying too.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: So it's all good.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: It's like No wonder This is not your part time effort.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: I mean it just pulls you in just in this conversation.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: You know, cindy, i think I love the word that y'all use, the word pipeline.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: You know, as part of what you do we talk about the pipeline, especially building a diverse pipeline on the show, because It's not it's not a check the box kind of thing and it's not an easy fix, because there's so many inputs of why You know this is even a problem in the first place and why it's hard to make all these transition points.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: So I would love to give space to just talk about, you see, this in the nonprofit field too, that there is a lack of diverse talent coming into the field and there's a lack of just the support as people come into that too.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: What have you learned that you think could be applied to the nonprofit sector?
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Because we have a lot of people listening that want to pour into this work in whatever corner of the world They're in.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: How can we do that and how have you been an ally?
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: So I did not realize the lack of diversity in the nonprofit world until I started this and until I started, you know, watching webinars.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: I went to my first conference last year that the nonprofit storytelling conference.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: So it was the first one I went to in person and any time I go to a like go to a virtual conference or See a webinar, watch a webinar, i am always looking at the speakers right and Is it a diverse group?
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: and I think it's just another issue, it's a pipeline issue, because it's not.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: it's not a gender issue.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's plenty of males and females or how you know, however you identify, but in terms of race, ethnicity, i just feel like there's got to be a lot more people out there who are doing this work, but we're just not seeing them relating it to law.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: You hear a lot of, let's say, lawyers in big law who say, well, you know what?
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: there's not a lot of Students of color who we can recruit to our law firm and it's like, yes, there are, you're just not looking in the right places.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: Right like for law firms, they just go to the top schools.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, they're very, you know, they can be very elitist.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: So I'm wondering it's the same thing like?
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: you're just not, we're not looking in the right places.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: I just think we have not cracked that code yet, and all I keep thinking is How can we be allies to you, cindy, like People listening in your own community?
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: you know how can and and maybe that's a, you know, i'm more of a metaphorical or rhetorical question that we don't have to ask, and I just think, watching someone I love go through the law school journey, it is incredibly difficult, and I mean you talk about that first year that first year is Super hard.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: I think taking the bar exam is an emotional and mental toil, and so I just think it's kind of incumbent upon all of us to, wherever we are in the world, we need to like talk to these kids and Allow them to dream and and connect them.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking like we need more leaps.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: We need more leaps and more communities, and I and I just wish more people would get on board, and that's why we have these Conversations to socialize them.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: You know I I want to keep the frank conversation going and I want to talk about founder fatigue, because I think that is extremely real and I think you're just such an amazing member of our community and we've talked a few times with you about founder fatigue.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: In fact, you've even inspired us to like use it as an upcoming podcast series.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: So thank you.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: We're gonna dive more deeply into this, but we want you to talk a little bit about the journey Through starting a nonprofit.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Like the good and the bad and the ugly.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: What would you say about founder fatigue?
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: for those who might be able to relate, so the good.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: So there's good, bad and ugly, i would say.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: There's good and just not as good.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: So, obviously the good is, whatever your impact is, but It's it's isolating.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's the that's the first word I think of when I think of being a founder is you know you're in this silo and You know it would.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: It would be great to be able to meet With people who it doesn't matter what your nonprofit is, it doesn't matter What your niche is.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: The fact is, if you're a founder and, by the way, there's a huge difference between a founder and executive director and I want to make sure people know that, like I don't call myself founder, slash CEO, because I think we need to think more like businesses, but a founder, it's my baby.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: Like when you're an executive director, if you're hired by someone, it's it's not your and I'm not.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: And I'm not saying anything Pejorative about the executive directors.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: Obviously they do as As important of work, but you, it's your ego, right?
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is mine, like leap is mine, and the success of it is dependent on the work I put into it.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: But it can be fatiguing and boundaries is a huge thing.
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: I'm trying really to not answer emails like after six or seven at night, but sometimes it's hard because there's just there's so much work I can be doing all the time and I'm thinking, okay, but I'm retired.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: I keep having to tell myself I'm retired, i'm supposed to be, i should be at the gym or I should be, you know, binging a show or going a happy hour.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: I should be doing other stuff, but I feel like there's just so much work to do, which is why I'm excited that we just hired this development person, because, to be totally frank, it's completely selfish why I hired him.
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: I want him to raise money so that I can hire more people, so I can step back and do the big, visionary stuff and not do all the little logistics.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: Like I don't want to do all the logistics, i don't want to be emailing, you know, people at nine at night to ask them for their LSAT score.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: Like that is not why I built this.
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: So it's isolating.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: It's also I don't know everything about running a business or running a nonprofit, and so, like I said, it would be nice to be.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: I know that there is a group called Sprouted, which is a group of founders and executive directors, but I would like to actually meet with people, like not just watch webinars, like actually meet with people here.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: How do you do this boundary thing.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: How do you shut your laptop?
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: you know, at six at night.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: I mean seriously little things like that.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: How do you deal with your board?
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's just so many issues that come up that would be nice to have someone who's already done this work so it doesn't feel so alone.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, i mean we're back to the power of community of finding people to just slog through this together.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: The whole stuff, the easy stuff, the wins too, and you're mentioning Sprouted we gotta give a plug.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: That's Rachel Baerbauer's group, who has an incredible group of executive directors.
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: We love.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Rachel Two.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: So a great program if you're listening and looking for that.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: But we want to dedicate that too to our community.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, the community has got a way to connect with people.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: So if you're looking for just like-minded peers not that it's always gonna solve everybody's problems but if you're looking for just people to join with, like the We Are For You community was designed to like create those connections and closures.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: So thank you for your honesty And Becky and I feel very seen.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: I feel like we're nodding through this because we're like we're battling this, i'm trying to close my laptop And I wanna go back to something you said because I wanna release you from it.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: It's not selfish at all that you hired that development officer.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: It was extremely smart and efficient that you did that, because guess what?
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: It's gonna get you backing your lane to do what you are really, really good at, because you need to run.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: And if we're slowing you down by having you do something that, again, you're not hardwired to know and we know you're gonna learn and get better and you're already leaning in But my gosh, way to go, way to go to hire somebody so you can run faster.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: I think it's a brilliant move.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: I'm hoping, in a year from now, that we have a completely different budget and that we're on our way to possibly going to another chapter of the country, because, yeah, that would be amazing.
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: I'm manifesting that We're working.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: We're right there with you We see it happening too Well.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: we love to create space to just talk about the power of philanthropy And I know this has got to be part of your story too of just a moment when you've seen philanthropy in action.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: what is a moment that you could take us back to?
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: that really has stuck with you in your journey?
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Sydney.
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: So the last couple of years we've had, we've had a virtual fundraiser.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: So in fact we have to decide this year if we're going in person, right.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: So again, starting a nonprofit during the pandemic would not suggest that.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: That's one piece of advice.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: Hopefully we never have to go through that pandemic thing again.
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: But so last year I also started a monthly program.
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: In fact I was in our mutual friend Dana Snyder's first mastermind group to develop a monthly program and it's called The Bench And so it's for monthly donors And we launched it in October last year And the really cool thing was three of our fellows were some of our first members of The Bench.
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: So these are fellows.
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: They haven't gone to law school yet, nor would I have ever asked them, like I would have never thought that they would be doing this.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: And so for almost a year now, like we have another one who just joined this year.
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: She's a fellow in this fourth cohort and she's giving us $50 a month.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: Like she started at 10 and all of a sudden she's at 50.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: And I just think that is so.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: And I said to her why did you do this?
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: Like I would have never asked you, and I swear I just saw her, she literally said Oh, i thought all the fellows did this Like no, no, so I think they're already philanthropists.
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: They're giving back to Leap I.
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: Just that is one of my favorite philanthropy stories.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: It's just so beautiful.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: It's why I think Becky and I are kind of geeks for employee giving, not because we want employees to feel like pressured to give, but when you hear these stories of just like somebody giving whatever is important to them, whatever is meaningful to them, like you can never get tired of that, and I think that is a beautiful representation of how your mission is touching people's lives.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: So I love that you shared that And I love the name of your monthly giving group, by the way, too.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Way to go.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: That was Dana Snyder.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: That was so smart.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Dana Snyder has such a great job.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: I love Dana, i love her.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: She is the greatest human.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm sad to ask this question because it means that we're wrapping up our time with you, but you know we end all of our podcasts with a one good thing, And so I'm wondering what's your one good thing that you're going to leave with the community today, Cindy?
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: Well, first of all, the work that you guys are doing.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: you guys are like two of the nicest, sweetest people, in fact, so sweet that I feel like I'm getting a cavity when I talk to you guys, because you guys are seriously like my goal is to try to be half as nice as you guys are just when I hear you on your show.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: seriously, you guys are unbelievably nice and sweet.
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: So I think I would want to just encourage everyone to keep doing whatever is you're doing, whatever you want to give to the world your legacy, because I truly believe that everyone was born to make the world a better place.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: However you do it.
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's a few exceptions which I'm not going to get political, so I won't say the names, but just keep like think of something that you could do to make the world a better place, and it can be something small, it can be writing a check, or it could be something big like starting a business.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: But yeah, i would say keep doing the good work.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: I also, i know one of the questions you ask people is about a habit, like a good habit, and I swear I keep saying I'm going to meditate every day and I'll go and for a week and I'll meditate every morning and then all of a sudden, like a month later, i'm not doing it.
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: So I really need to start meditating because I want to be still.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: I need to because I have so much energy.
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: I want to, like, start the day being still and I need to.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: I need to try to put that in my life more, because when I meet people who are really into meditating, they're so calm, like how are you doing that?
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: Are you high right now?
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: So you're hilarious.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: I see myself so much in you.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: Someday I'll tell you about me trying to meditate for the first time and, like the dogs, jumping on me and like kids are crying and it's like, no, no, I'm trying to stay centered.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: It is difficult And I just think you are such a delight and you're so real and honest and there is nothing better when we have an authentic human being that comes in and doesn't just share the good stuff.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: You know, we got to talk about the stuff that wears us down.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: We got to talk about the impediments to our work and what's standing in the way.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: Thank you for being so enthusiastic and kind all the time.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: I just want more people to find you.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: You're extraordinary.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: We love for people to find you where you hang out online.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Let's point to Leap where y'all on social media.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Just I mean, if you're listening, this is something to get active in.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: You know, if you're looking for a nonprofit to follow like this is an incredible one.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: So point us to all the ways to plug in.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: So we're on Instagram.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: By the way, that's something else I learned when I first developed Leap that I had to be on Instagram.
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: Wow, that is a time suck.
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: So we're at legal pipeline.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: LinkedIn is probably the best place.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: If you feel so, called to help Cindy in any way.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: we are, for goods, made a gift already online while we were talking, and we want to invest in this and please find a way to be a light to this issue.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: It doesn't necessarily have to be with your financial support, though that is very helpful, as we all know.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: But if you have a way to just open this up in your community, if you have a way to connect someone that you know that wants to go into the law field with a legal mentor, with someone, that's something we all could do.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: We all have a network out there And I think just the community piece is a beautiful thing.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Thank you for completely uplifting trend number five 2023,.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: the community is core and it can truly be everything, which is our core value.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: Sophie Lopez, i like you so much.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: I am just rooting for you.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: We think what you've done is extraordinary.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: You keep going because your retirement doesn't feel like it's going to slow down and find you on the golf course, so you keep changing the world with what you're doing.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you for coming in and just opening our hearts and minds with what you're doing.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Keep going.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: This is totally making my day.
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: Hey friends, thanks so much for being here.
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: Did you know?
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: we create a landing page for each podcast episode with helpful links, freebies and even shareable graphics.
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: Be sure to check it out at the link in this episode's description.
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: You probably hear it in our voices, but we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission than ever before.
• 44:04
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• 44:06
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• 44:10
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• 44:13
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• 44:17
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• 44:21
  Speaker 4: Thanks, friends.
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: I'm our producer, julie Comfort, and our theme song is Sunray by Remy Borsbu.