Latest / The Infographics Show Podcast / McDonald’s vs. Burger King: A Fast-Food Rivalry
Transcript
- 0:10Speaker 1: Welcome to beyond infographics, you know, beyond the iconic logos
- 0:14Speaker 1: and those menus we all kind of recognize. Today, we're
- 0:17Speaker 1: really peeling back the layers on one of fast food's biggest,
- 0:21Speaker 1: most enduring rivalries, McDonald's versus Burger King Exactly.
- 0:25Speaker 2: We're going beyond infographics to uncover the surprising truths, the
- 0:30Speaker 2: things that really define these giants beneath the surface.
- 0:33Speaker 1: Yeah, what really makes them tick, right.
- 0:36Speaker 2: Our mission here is to pull out those key nuggets
- 0:39Speaker 2: of knowledge, those surprising facts that you might not get
- 0:41Speaker 2: from just a quick glance. We're moving past the easy
- 0:44Speaker 2: comparisons to really understand their differences, their core strategies.
- 0:50Speaker 1: It's fascinating stuff. We'll get into everything from there, well,
- 0:53Speaker 1: truly unexpected origins. Cature are quite different to those fierce
- 0:56Speaker 1: burger wars that honestly shape the whole industry, and even
- 1:00Speaker 1: what's cooking quite literally in their automated kitchens as they
- 1:03Speaker 1: look towards the future. And Hey, as you listen to
- 1:06Speaker 1: this deep dive, if you're enjoying the insights we're sharing,
- 1:09Speaker 1: maybe having a few aha moments, please take a second
- 1:12Speaker 1: to give us a five star rating. It really helps
- 1:14Speaker 1: us bring more deep dives like this to you.
- 1:16Speaker 2: It does make a difference.
- 1:17Speaker 1: So let's kick things off with those origins. It's surprising, right,
- 1:21Speaker 1: many people think they're almost interchangeable, but how they started
- 1:24Speaker 1: really set them on different paths. How did McDonald's actually
- 1:28Speaker 1: get going.
- 1:29Speaker 2: Well, it's quite a story. Actually. McDonald's started way back
- 1:33Speaker 2: nineteen forty and not by Raycroc like many think. Oh no,
- 1:38Speaker 2: it was the McDonald brothers, Dick and Mack out in
- 1:40Speaker 2: San Bernardino, California. They came up with something pretty revolutionary
- 1:44Speaker 2: for the time, the speedy service system Mini service. Yeah,
- 1:48Speaker 2: it was all about speed efficiency, getting those fifteen San
- 1:50Speaker 2: hamburgers out fast. It really changed how food was.
- 1:54Speaker 1: Served fifteen cents right.
- 1:56Speaker 2: Then fast forward in nineteen fifty four and Kroc enters
- 2:00Speaker 2: the picture he was selling milkshake machines, saw their operation
- 2:04Speaker 2: and saw this huge potential.
- 2:06Speaker 1: Ah. So that's where Kroc comes in exactly.
- 2:09Speaker 2: And his genius or maybe just pure ambition, wasn't just
- 2:12Speaker 2: about the burgers. It was about real estate. His vision
- 2:16Speaker 2: for massive growth through franchising had this crucial twist. Okay,
- 2:21Speaker 2: the McDonald's corporation itself would own the land under each restaurant,
- 2:26Speaker 2: they'd lease it to the franchisees.
- 2:27Speaker 1: Oh wow, so there are landlords first, almost pretty much.
- 2:30Speaker 2: It made McDonald's this absolute real estate behemoth. We're talking
- 2:35Speaker 2: in estimated what one hundred billion dollar real estate portfolio.
- 2:38Speaker 2: Now that's the real foundation.
- 2:40Speaker 1: Often missed that is fascinating a landbearon selling burgers. So
- 2:44Speaker 1: how does Burger King start compared? Do they have that
- 2:46Speaker 1: kind of strategic foresight? Uh?
- 2:48Speaker 2: Not quite in the same way.
- 2:49Speaker 1: No.
- 2:50Speaker 2: Burger King started in fifty three, originally called instaburger King.
- 2:53Speaker 2: Instaburger King, Yeah, founded by Keith Gramer and Matthew Burns.
- 2:56Speaker 2: Their big innovation was the insta broiler, a machine for
- 2:59Speaker 2: cooking burger quickly efficient.
- 3:01Speaker 1: Okay, similar focus on speed then.
- 3:03Speaker 2: Right, But they ran into money problems pretty fast. So
- 3:05Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty nine two other guys, James Macklamore and
- 3:07Speaker 2: David Edgerton, stepped in. They bought the national rights, rebranded
- 3:11Speaker 2: at Burger King.
- 3:12Speaker 1: And their franchising model was it like crocs?
- 3:15Speaker 2: No, initially it was very different. They sold territorial licenses,
- 3:18Speaker 2: so franchisees bought the rights for a whole area.
- 3:21Speaker 1: Hmm, sounds less controlled.
- 3:23Speaker 2: It was and it led to problems. You know, quality
- 3:26Speaker 2: wasn't consistent across different places because they didn't have those
- 3:29Speaker 2: strong contracts McDonald's did. It wasn't until much later, like
- 3:33Speaker 2: nineteen seventy eight, that they basically restructured and adopted that
- 3:36Speaker 2: McDonald's model, owning the land, leasing to franchisees.
- 3:40Speaker 1: So McDonald's really had a significant head start there, almost
- 3:43Speaker 1: a decade with their system really taking root. What's the
- 3:47Speaker 1: long term impact of that difference.
- 3:49Speaker 2: Oh, it's huge, im mens that early strategy, especially a
- 3:53Speaker 2: croc's real estate play, it just set McDonald's up for
- 3:56Speaker 2: incredible scale and growth.
- 3:58Speaker 1: You can see in the numbers right absolutely.
- 4:00Speaker 2: Today McDonald's has what over thirty eight thousand restaurants globally.
- 4:04Speaker 2: Burger King is around nineteen.
- 4:05Speaker 1: Thousand, double the size, basically, yeah.
- 4:07Speaker 2: Roughly double, And that gap really speaks volumes about how
- 4:10Speaker 2: those foundational business models dictated long term dominance, the ability
- 4:14Speaker 2: to just expand everywhere. It's strategy, not just burgers.
- 4:18Speaker 1: Okay, so the foundations are clearly different. Let's talk about
- 4:20Speaker 1: the food itself, because that's what most of us experienced directly.
- 4:24Speaker 1: Beyond flame broiled versus griddle, what really sets them apart
- 4:28Speaker 1: when you actually order something.
- 4:30Speaker 2: Oh, there are definitely some key distinctions. Yeah, let's start
- 4:33Speaker 2: with the burgers. Burger King actually offers more variety. I
- 4:36Speaker 2: think it's like fifteen different types listed versus McDonald's nine fifteen.
- 4:40Speaker 1: I wouldn't have guessed that.
- 4:41Speaker 2: Yeah, and the cooking method, like you said, is a
- 4:43Speaker 2: big one flame broil to BK gives you that smoky
- 4:46Speaker 2: char McDonald's uses a flat top griddle. But here's something
- 4:51Speaker 2: maybe less obvious. The toppings. Burger King often, not always,
- 4:56Speaker 2: but often seems to have fresher Chris beer lettuce, actual
- 5:00Speaker 2: tomato slices, sliced onions. You get more crunch, more distinct
- 5:04Speaker 2: flavor from the veggies, whereas McDonald's McDonald's tends to use
- 5:07Speaker 2: those finely diced onions, and let's be honest, sometimes pretty
- 5:10Speaker 2: sad wilted, shredded lettuce and this kind of anemic looking pickles.
- 5:14Speaker 2: It's a subtle thing, but it affects the texture and.
- 5:17Speaker 1: Taste, right, Okay, what about sides.
- 5:19Speaker 2: Burger King wins on variety there too. They've got onion rings,
- 5:22Speaker 2: of course.
- 5:22Speaker 1: And sometimes you get that bonus one in the fries exactly.
- 5:25Speaker 2: It's like a little lot of rewin. They also have
- 5:27Speaker 2: things like Colapanio, cheddar bites, mazzarella sticks, fries, rather more
- 5:31Speaker 2: options if you're not just feeling fries. McDonald's basically has
- 5:34Speaker 2: fries and apple slices.
- 5:37Speaker 1: Simple, but the fries themselves, that's a battleground.
- 5:41Speaker 2: Oh yeah. McDonald's fries are often seen as the gold standard, right, thin, salty,
- 5:46Speaker 2: that perfect crispy outside, soft inside thing, that appealing, greasy,
- 5:51Speaker 2: piconic Burger King's fries, they're often described as well, forgettable, thicker, cut,
- 5:57Speaker 2: sometimes a bit limp, just lacking that disinctive McDonald's magic
- 6:01Speaker 2: for most people. Though interestingly b Kays are vegan. McDonald's
- 6:05Speaker 2: fries in the US aren't because of beef flavoring.
- 6:07Speaker 1: Ah, that's a good point for some people. And chicken
- 6:10Speaker 1: McNuggets versus chicken fries.
- 6:11Speaker 2: Right, BKA's chicken fries are pretty unique. Slender, crispy sticks,
- 6:15Speaker 2: well seasoned. They feel like a deliberate treat, you know.
- 6:18Speaker 1: Yeah, they have a bit of a cult following.
- 6:20Speaker 2: They do McNuggets. On the other hand, while they're iconic
- 6:23Speaker 2: and hit that nostalgia button for lots of us, they
- 6:27Speaker 2: are super processed. Some say they can feel a bit
- 6:30Speaker 2: like an afterthought compared to like decent frozen nuggets you'd buy.
- 6:33Speaker 1: Hmmm, interesting take. Okay, if you're finding these distinctions as
- 6:37Speaker 1: delicious as we are, remember to give us that five
- 6:40Speaker 1: star rating. It helps spread the word about beyond infographics.
- 6:43Speaker 2: Please do. Continuing on the menu breakfast, McDonald's just dominates here.
- 6:49Speaker 2: Oh yeah, sixteen items versus Burger King six and BKA's
- 6:53Speaker 2: breakfast is mostly croissant sandwiches plus their potato bites.
- 6:56Speaker 1: Mc donald's has mcmuffins, biscuits, mcgriddles.
- 6:59Speaker 2: Eggs, way more variety in the bread options and coffee too.
- 7:03Speaker 2: McDonald's has stepped up its mcafe game americanos, cappuccinos, lattes.
- 7:07Speaker 2: Burger King is more basic hot decalfe heist.
- 7:11Speaker 1: In the soda. I've heard people swear McDonald's coke taste
- 7:14Speaker 1: betters or anything to that.
- 7:15Speaker 2: There actually is. It's partly their long standing Coca Cola partnership.
- 7:19Speaker 2: They get the syrup delivered in stainless steel tanks, not
- 7:21Speaker 2: plastic bags, which helps preserve it. They also chill the
- 7:24Speaker 2: syrup and the carbonated water separately and keep it super cold.
- 7:28Speaker 2: But The big one is likely their water filtration. McDonald's
- 7:32Speaker 2: invests heavily in filtering the water they use for the
- 7:35Speaker 2: soda fountains. Better water, better coke. It sounds like marketing,
- 7:39Speaker 2: but there's science there. Wow.
- 7:40Speaker 1: Okay, so it's not just in my head. What about
- 7:42Speaker 1: dessert ice cream machines?
- 7:44Speaker 2: Ah? Yes, the infamous broken McDonald's ice cream machine meme.
- 7:49Speaker 2: It's the real thing. Sadly for mcflory fans. Burger King,
- 7:52Speaker 2: while they have fewer options basically soft serve and milkshakes,
- 7:56Speaker 2: tends to be well more reliable if you want a frozen.
- 7:59Speaker 1: Treat, good to know and quick one fish sandwiches Filiofish
- 8:02Speaker 1: versus Big Fish.
- 8:03Speaker 2: Yeah, different approaches. Filiofish's classic steambun tartar sauce that slice
- 8:08Speaker 2: a processed cheese. Burger King's Big Fish usually comes on
- 8:11Speaker 2: a fancier brioche button has lettuce but no cheese, And honestly,
- 8:15Speaker 2: many people think the fish patty in the Big Fish
- 8:18Speaker 2: tastes more like actual fish, less processed.
- 8:21Speaker 1: Maybe so, the menus definitely show different strategies, different strengths.
- 8:25Speaker 1: But the fight isn't just on the tray, is it. It's
- 8:27Speaker 1: been waged very publicly through marketing. Let's get into the
- 8:29Speaker 1: burger wars.
- 8:30Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the battleground. It's fascinating. Before the nineteen eighties,
- 8:35Speaker 2: things were, let's say, more polite, right. McDonald's was all
- 8:38Speaker 2: about positive, family friendly stuff. The Happy Meal launched in
- 8:42Speaker 2: seventy nine, huge success. Burger King focused on customization that
- 8:46Speaker 2: classic have at your waist slogan at different angle. But
- 8:49Speaker 2: then King the eighties and Burger King arguably fired the
- 8:53Speaker 2: first real shot. They launched these really aggressive campaigns directly
- 8:58Speaker 2: attacking McDonald's. They questioned the size of McDonald's burgers, claimed
- 9:03Speaker 2: theirs were bigger, better, They used comparative advertising, naving McDonald's directly.
- 9:08Speaker 2: It was pretty bold for the time.
- 9:09Speaker 1: And McDonald's response they fought back.
- 9:11Speaker 2: They introduced things like the McDLT run to that hot side,
- 9:14Speaker 2: stay's hot cool side, Stay's cool.
- 9:15Speaker 1: Vaguely that massive styrofoam container.
- 9:19Speaker 2: Exactly, and it was basically a direct copy of a whopper,
- 9:22Speaker 2: trying to compete on that fresh lettuce and tomato front.
- 9:25Speaker 2: Things got pretty heated. There were even legal battles over
- 9:28Speaker 2: false advertising claims. These burger wars were expensive for both
- 9:32Speaker 2: of them.
- 9:32Speaker 1: Wow, So it was a real slugfest. What happened after
- 9:35Speaker 1: that initial intense period. Did they just calmed down?
- 9:39Speaker 2: Well, not entirely, but things shifted. Both companies actually hit
- 9:42Speaker 2: a slump around the turn of the millennium. McDonald's even
- 9:46Speaker 2: posted its first ever quarterly loss in two thousand and three.
- 9:51Speaker 2: That was a huge shot wake up call definitely. McDonald's
- 9:54Speaker 2: reacted by focusing on fundamentals, getting back to basics, making
- 9:58Speaker 2: sure restaurants were clean from spotless food, consistently hot, just
- 10:03Speaker 2: operational excellence. And Burger King they took a different path.
- 10:06Speaker 2: They started targeting super fans, people really into burgers, and
- 10:09Speaker 2: introduced more premium products, better quality chicken salads, emphasizing that
- 10:14Speaker 2: flame broiling. And it worked for a while. Their income
- 10:16Speaker 2: went up significantly during that period.
- 10:18Speaker 1: So different recovery strategies. And then came the modern era
- 10:22Speaker 1: digital social media, right, and.
- 10:24Speaker 2: That's where their personalities really diverged again. Burger King fully
- 10:27Speaker 2: embraced being the cheeky challenger.
- 10:29Speaker 1: They've had some wild campaigns, haven't they.
- 10:31Speaker 2: Oh yeah, remember burn that ad use their app to
- 10:34Speaker 2: digitally set fire to a McDonald's ad on a bidboard
- 10:36Speaker 2: to get a free whopper. That was audacious, totally or
- 10:40Speaker 2: wopper neutrality, explaining net neutrality using burger prices, very clever,
- 10:44Speaker 2: very edgy. Wopper detour, ordering a wopper for one cent
- 10:49Speaker 2: if you were physically near a McDonald's.
- 10:51Speaker 1: Location, poking the bear constantly, exactly.
- 10:54Speaker 2: And maybe the most controversial, the Mouldi whopper showing their
- 10:58Speaker 2: burger decaying over Whei to highlight the lack of artificial preservatives.
- 11:03Speaker 2: Very bold, very.
- 11:04Speaker 1: Divisive, generated a ton of buzz, though it did.
- 11:07Speaker 2: Meanwhile, McDonald stayed the course as the dominant leader. Their
- 11:10Speaker 2: personality is all about reliability, nostalgia, being accessible, dependable.
- 11:16Speaker 1: More mainstream right.
- 11:17Speaker 2: Think of their famous orders campaigns with huge celebrities like
- 11:21Speaker 2: Travis Scott bts that leans into their cultural status and
- 11:24Speaker 2: pushing the mcafe rewards program to keep people coming back.
- 11:27Speaker 2: It's about being the comfortable, known quantity.
- 11:29Speaker 1: It's really striking. Like you said, how their personalities are
- 11:32Speaker 1: almost the inverse of their names. McDonald's the leader, acts
- 11:35Speaker 1: kind of safe and reliable. Burger King the King acts
- 11:38Speaker 1: like the rebellious challenger.
- 11:40Speaker 2: It's absolutely deliberate. McDonald's plays to its strengths, mass appeal, families, consistency.
- 11:45Speaker 2: They're the default choice for many budget conscious folks, increasingly
- 11:49Speaker 2: health conscious with salads and things, urban professionals grabbing.
- 11:53Speaker 1: Coffee and Burger King targets.
- 11:54Speaker 2: Burger King goes for a different slice young adults, millennials maybe,
- 11:58Speaker 2: who respond to that edge your marketing, Burger enthusiasts who
- 12:03Speaker 2: really value the flame boiled taste and the habit your
- 12:05Speaker 2: way customization, tech savvy consumers using the app for deals,
- 12:11Speaker 2: value seekers responding to their bundle offers. It's smart segmentation.
- 12:15Speaker 1: It really is. Okay. Another quick reminder, if this deep
- 12:18Speaker 1: dive is sparking some aha moments for you, if you're
- 12:21Speaker 1: finding this interesting, please consider leaving us that five star rating.
- 12:24Speaker 1: Every rating helps more curious listeners like you find the show.
- 12:27Speaker 2: We appreciate it, so okay.
- 12:28Speaker 1: Beyond the food, beyond the ads, there's the serious business side,
- 12:31Speaker 1: the money, the operations. Let's look at the numbers and
- 12:35Speaker 1: how these companies actually run things globally.
- 12:37Speaker 2: Right. The financials really underscore the scale difference we talked
- 12:40Speaker 2: about earlier. McDonald's just operates on a different level in
- 12:43Speaker 2: terms of revenue. In twenty twenty four, we're looking at
- 12:46Speaker 2: around twenty six billion dollars for McDonald's versus maybe one
- 12:49Speaker 2: point four or five billion dollars for Burger King.
- 12:51Speaker 1: WHOA, that's a massive gap.
- 12:53Speaker 2: It is. Market capitalization is much higher for McDonald's too,
- 12:56Speaker 2: But interestingly, both companies deal with similar demand paths, patterns
- 13:00Speaker 2: pretty irregular and very sensitive to price changes.
- 13:04Speaker 1: Elastic demand, yeah, exactly.
- 13:06Speaker 2: Small price shifts can really swing sales. Now. How they
- 13:10Speaker 2: price things as different. McDonald's, being the leader, often uses
- 13:13Speaker 2: what's called skimming. Maybe start low, raise prices, then it
- 13:16Speaker 2: just down to compete. They aim for huge volume even
- 13:19Speaker 2: if the profit per item isn't massive. Combos and specials
- 13:23Speaker 2: are key drivers.
- 13:24Speaker 1: Makes sense. And Burger King.
- 13:25Speaker 2: They tend to use more market oriented pricing, looking at
- 13:28Speaker 2: what competitors are doing in supplying demand right now. They're
- 13:31Speaker 2: also really early adopters of bundle pricing like the five
- 13:33Speaker 2: for four dollars deals, things like that that really helped
- 13:36Speaker 2: them compete on price and boost details significantly.
- 13:38Speaker 1: And if someone wanted to say, open a franchise, big
- 13:41Speaker 1: difference in cost.
- 13:43Speaker 2: Generally, yes, McDonald's usually requires a higher initial investment. It
- 13:47Speaker 2: can range but like maybe half a million up to
- 13:50Speaker 2: two point five million dollars to get started Burger King
- 13:53Speaker 2: has a wider range, starting potentially lower, maybe around two
- 13:56Speaker 2: hundred and thirty thousand dollars, but can also go up
- 13:58Speaker 2: to over four point five five million dollars depending on
- 14:01Speaker 2: the location and type.
- 14:02Speaker 1: Okay, so it's not just about what happens at the counter,
- 14:04Speaker 1: it's the behind the scenes tech the supply chain that's
- 14:07Speaker 1: crucial to.
- 14:08Speaker 2: Right, absolutely critical, and both are investing heavily in automation
- 14:12Speaker 2: and technology. This is where the future is heading fast.
- 14:15Speaker 1: What kind of tech are we talking about?
- 14:17Speaker 2: For McDonald's, think robotics in some kitchens, lots of AI
- 14:20Speaker 2: and data analytics. They use it for really sophisticated inventory management,
- 14:24Speaker 2: tracking stock in real time. AI also helps some forecast demand,
- 14:28Speaker 2: looking at weather, local events, past sales data to predict
- 14:32Speaker 2: orders helps optimize everything with suppliers.
- 14:34Speaker 1: To getting very predictive, very Burger King.
- 14:37Speaker 2: Is also integrating robotics flipping burgers, making fries, assembling orders.
- 14:41Speaker 2: In some test locations. They're looking at automated delivery systems too.
- 14:45Speaker 1: And the benefits are pretty significant.
- 14:47Speaker 2: Obviously, reducing labor costs is a big one, but also
- 14:51Speaker 2: minimizing human error, increasing speed and productivity, making things more
- 14:55Speaker 2: consistent for the customer. It can mean faster service a
- 15:00Speaker 2: Kiosks or mobile apps, quicker drive thrusts. Plus, it can
- 15:04Speaker 2: help produce food waste by predicting demand better.
- 15:07Speaker 1: So with all the financial differences the push to automate,
- 15:12Speaker 1: where does this leave them? What's the future look like?
- 15:14Speaker 1: Are we heading for a new kind of burger war?
- 15:17Speaker 2: Could be? I mean, the whole fast food industry faces
- 15:19Speaker 2: challenges right post pandemic. Maybe people looking more towards smaller
- 15:23Speaker 2: local places or the fast casual sector which is boomed.
- 15:26Speaker 1: True health consciousness too exactly.
- 15:28Speaker 2: Consumer tastes are definitely shifting more demand for healthier options.
- 15:32Speaker 2: Plant based foods are huge now. Both McDonald's and Burger
- 15:35Speaker 2: King are adapting, adding vegetarian options, trying to market healthier choices.
- 15:39Speaker 1: So the next war might be about salads not patties.
- 15:41Speaker 2: It might be or plant based burgers or sustainability claims.
- 15:46Speaker 2: The competition could shift to focus on who best meets
- 15:49Speaker 2: these evolving values. It could absolutely be a new wave
- 15:53Speaker 2: of burger wars fought on different grounds health, innovation, maybe
- 15:57Speaker 2: even ethics.
- 15:58Speaker 1: Fascinating. We really hope you've enjoyed venturing beyond infographics with
- 16:03Speaker 1: us today on this deep dive. If you found it valuable,
- 16:06Speaker 1: please please leave us that five star rating and maybe
- 16:09Speaker 1: share it with a friend who loves a good burger
- 16:11Speaker 1: or you know, maybe some chicken fries.
- 16:13Speaker 2: Yes, please do so.
- 16:15Speaker 1: Today we've really peeled back the layers on McDonald's versus
- 16:18Speaker 1: Burger King. We looked at their surprisingly different origins, those
- 16:21Speaker 1: foundational business.
- 16:22Speaker 2: Models, right the real estate versus the initial territorial licenses.
- 16:26Speaker 1: We compared their menu strategies, the specific food differences, the
- 16:30Speaker 1: intensity of the old school burger wars, and.
- 16:32Speaker 2: How their brand personalities became almost opposites.
- 16:35Speaker 1: Yeah, and we finished up looking at the cutting edge
- 16:37Speaker 1: automation that's driving their operations now and into the future.
- 16:41Speaker 2: It's really clear when you dig in, isn't it. They
- 16:43Speaker 2: might seem similar on the surface, but underneath they have
- 16:46Speaker 2: really distinct identities, different strategies, different strengths, even different flavors.
- 16:51Speaker 1: It's not just about selling burgers, not at all.
- 16:53Speaker 2: It's about constant innovation, adapting, supply chain marketing, understanding where
- 16:58Speaker 2: consumers are heading next. It's a never ending battle.
- 17:01Speaker 1: Which brings us to our final thought for you to
- 17:03Speaker 1: chew on in this world where convenience is still king,
- 17:07Speaker 1: but our tastes and values are changing so fast. What
- 17:11Speaker 1: is it that truly defines a winning fast food experience
- 17:14Speaker 1: going forward? Is it still just the quick fix, Is
- 17:16Speaker 1: it the customization, or is it becoming something else entire
- 17:20Speaker 1: it maybe health, sustainability, or some kind of tech driven
- 17:23Speaker 1: experience we haven't even fully imagined yet