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What Happens When You Assume You Will Not Get Hacked with Sheldon Mellon · Epic Entrepreneurs

• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: I am Cliff McCray with Action Coach Business Growth Partners, where we work with local business owners to turn big ideas into real scalable growth.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm excited to be joined by Sheldon D.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Mellon with Paladin Business Consulting.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Sheldon, thanks for being here.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing today, sir?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing great.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for having me, Cliff.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're very excited to have you on.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: So let's go ahead and jump right into things.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, for those of you who may not know it yet, no, who are you?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Who is Sheldon D.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Mellon and what is Paladin Business Consulting?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Paladin Business Consulting is a consulting firm with we specialize in IT consulting for companies, startups, and existing companies.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: We specialize in cybersecurity.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Cybersecurity that we have found in our market space in North and South Carolina is overlooked, to be honest with you, when creating a business plan.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the things that we want to do.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: We want to help the young entrepreneur or the existing business understand what it's going to take to protect their company from the cybersecurity compromises.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're all over the place now with our geopolitical situation.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: We literally see compromise attempts and unfortunately successful compromise attempts every single day.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's up to us to teach the client, number one, how to protect their business, how to recover, do a disaster recovery if there is a compromise.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we're always there as a consultant and also for the action of supporting the customer.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, who are you as a person?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I am a husband, a father.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: I have two, have a beautiful wife of 37 years.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: I have an awesome son who's 30 and a daughter who's 27.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: They're wonderful children.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're out on their own.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: They're doing their thing.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: I really enjoy seeing seeing them thrive and become their own persons.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we love to play golf.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: We're people of faith and we like to enjoy life.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: So Sheldon, real talk.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, let's let's get into things.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, what would you say is something about running a business that people think is amazing, but it's actually not.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: I see so many people, Cliff, get into business and really not be prepared for the downsides.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think people are looking for, let's get in business.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to be successful.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, things are going to be all rosy.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not that.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's some of the hardest work I've ever done is have my own company, which I've had, I've had three over the years.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just the downsides of things of, you know, how do you handle employees?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what are your, can you get control of your costs?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the things that sneak up on the business owner that he's never been privy to as an employee.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so I see also a lot of a lot of employees that say, look, I can do this better.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: And true, they may be able to do that better, but seeing the things that that the next level above them, the C level, is used to dealing with every day, the new person walks in and says, Wow, where did this come from?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, the business coaching side is very important.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking with someone who has been there before.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: And also, Cliff, the other thing is when we see folks go into business in companies that they're not familiar with.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say they buy a franchise of a company that they've never associated with or have no idea how to build it, that sometimes is like the fallacy of let's go great in business right off the bat.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's a really good advice.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's true.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen that before.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, talking, I talk to entrepreneurs all the time, and I've seen that.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you've you're exactly right.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, Sheldon, what would you say is the exact moment where you realize, you know, this could either really work or it could completely blow up in my face?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really with any business you've you've owned over the years.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's a great question.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: When when you look at the bank account, you measure the pluses and the minuses, that's a that's a harsh reality.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I think, I think fairly soon when I was in business, I could look and see if I was was picking up a momentum.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: The the business, in my opinion, has to have momentum going into the business, but it has to have a greater momentum once you start the business because everything else will continue to jump in at you.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Your accounts payable, your accounts receivable, your employees, you know, any kind of down economy, anything like that that will affect my cash flow, which really affects the business.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when I got to see, okay, I've got a little money in the bank, bills are paid, I'm really going forward, that's a big shot on the arm to say, you know, I just might make this thing.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so that gives you a boost because you can actually look at building the business instead of kind of looking at the books all the time.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was one of the things I think that helped me the most.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Nice, nice.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what would you say was the most stressful moment you've had as a business owner, like a, you know, how am I going to get through this type of moment?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's a very, that's a very tough question, too, because when you when you jump out out there and you you hang your shingle and you go out and you start your business, there are so many things that have to be considered first.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so, hang on, hang, hang on, Cliff.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Go back and ask me that again.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, no problem.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, Shadow, what would you say was the most stressful moment you've had as a business owner, like a, you know, how am I going to get through this type of moment?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: The the balance of home and office.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: I remember when we started our first business, our children were small.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: We had a three-year-old and a one-year-old.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so the business actually consumed me as I was growing all aspects of the business.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually purchased a business that was already started and had about six or eight years of history.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so obviously, you want to change up some things.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: You want to implement the things that you know will work.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: You also want to keep an eye on your employees.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: We had employees uh right off the bat.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a concern that we had.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, balancing time with the family and the children, as I mentioned earlier.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: I would come home at five or six o'clock and then spend time with the family, do dinner, spend time with the kids, you know, help my wife with the kids, get the kids off the bed.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then I would go back to work.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would work maybe till one o'clock in the morning to prepare for the next day, get up, go in, you know, to the office and you know, rinse and repeat.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, getting used to that, that time frame and everything that was involved in in all those activities, honestly, Cliff, it's something that I'm still in.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a morning person, I'm an evening person, but I think part of that persona comes from me staying up and and working while everything was quiet, everything was out of the way, so I could go in and start again.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of the pattern that I'm still in.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I I totally feel that because I'm the same way.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what it is, but as soon as the sun goes down and it gets dark for me, I get a second wind.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you're the same way, but yeah, I get a second wind and I I just have a problem going to sleep.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it's something I've been dealing with since I was 13.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't fight it anymore.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: I used to try to fight it.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm gonna get, you know, get to bed at a certain time.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna bed at nine o'clock, 10 o'clock.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not gonna work for me.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just not built like that.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, from the use of having to do that as a have to to be productive around home, it is it was the greatest time.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, quiet, you know, nothing was going on.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: I could really concentrate.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it really became so fruitful for me.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: I started doing things late at night that I probably should have done during the day.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, eight o'clock comes the next morning, I'm ready to go, I'm ready to jump out of the gate.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely get that.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you know, and with any of your businesses, have you ever thought about quitting?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if so, what stopped you?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, I really didn't because I've always had the mentality of, you know, if if it's gonna be, it's up to me.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: And there's there's no there's no way, in my opinion, to gracefully quit a business unless it's a financial issue and you have to dissolve, whatever.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: But but but the word was quit the business.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: So there it never entered my mind to quit a business as long as people, other people had had responsibilities.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: I had responsibilities to other people, I guess is what the way to put it.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it was one of the things that if I had employees or they had expectations, you know, they had bills to pay, they had families.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I felt like I was very much involved with them and I was responsible for their families as much as my family.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, a lot of decisions for the staff ride on the decisions made, you know, by the C level.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: I was very well of that, very much aware of that.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: That was kind of something that I saw as an employee, and it just made me very sensitive to what happens with that.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, number one, I couldn't quit on them, but I couldn't quit on myself because I knew inside, if I had enough time, I could make this work.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I guess I'm just stubborn enough to stick it up.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it actually gave me, you know, it helped my fortitude and it helped my attitude to go out and and and do the things I needed to do.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because you have to be the face of the company outside as well as inside.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was the things I just I just had to embrace the challenges to get through, and I never really thought of quitting.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Sheldon, what would you say is a mistake you made early on that cost you either serious money, time, or reputation?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was not a it was definitely not a reputation thing because that's the one thing that I knew Cliff would would be my make or break.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm very happy and very proud to say that I've been able to keep a reputation over the last 25 years, and I still have a lot of the customers that I had back then.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: But honestly, I wish I'd been better capitalized.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the changes in the electronics and the office and some of the softwares, and you know, as the business grows, there's a time to add employees.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Fortunately, we never were in a situation to cut employees, but you know, just cash flow sometimes is a very, very tough thing.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it was my opinion that with my six or eight people that I had, I wanted to make sure to pay them first.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, if there was something that was going to be short or we were waiting on some supplies or whatever the pace, whatever the case was, I just wanted to make sure that, you know, we were good financially.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: I had responsibilities to the bank at that time.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I think cash flow was the big thing.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, okay.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what's something about you personally that had to change in order for your business to grow?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I don't want this to sound sound harsh, but I had to I had to really be tough on some things.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say from the discipline standpoint, sitting down with someone who was not being particularly productive had to be a very direct discussion, but respectful.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: I had to be very respectful of people's feelings because they don't see the side of the business that I that I see.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think being more approachable, being more patient, patience is always something that I've had to deal with, or lack of, I should say.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that was I think that was a bigger thing because people do not know what you know if they're not in your shoes.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, when like I mentioned earlier, when I had inherited employees, we were all new to each other.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I worked in this company, so it was like one of the guys becomes the guy who writes the checks.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that was that was initially pretty hard.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I I did want to speak to my employees and say, hey, look, you know, I'm getting ready to take a plunge, I'm getting ready to take over the company.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: I would really like to have you on board.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was, you know, that was one of the things that really had to be an adjustment for me.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, and it's obviously hypothetical, but let's say if someone shadowed you for a full day or let's say even a full week, what would surprise them the most about how you operate and how you, you know, basically run your business?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a fierce multitasker.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: I will be making calls, I will be on my computer, I will be doing something else, you know, just all over the place, trying to balance about three things at one time.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, Cliff, I think that goes back to my early training as a uh first-time business owner.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to try to pack everything into every minute, not every hour, but not every day, but every minute.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people don't see that.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's kind of like the duck, you know, illustration.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: You see the smooth duck on the top, but you know, his legs keep paddling like crazy under the water.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: And the way I learned, and that's just the way I still operate.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you know, let's go ahead and talk about numbers without getting too specific.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, since you, you know, since you've owned your business for a little while, you know, what year would you say was the turning point where things started to scale?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Probably two.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think year number one, well, let's say zero to six months, you're still learning.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're still learning about the things that are brand new to you as the business owner.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then it takes a while to get your momentum going because the momentum needs to be from a sales standpoint, from a marketing standpoint, from a cash flow standpoint, from an ordering standpoint, the whole gamut that you deal with, you kind of build up.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so from month six to twelve, I think we were probably getting our C legs.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: We knew what we were doing.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: We were dealing with suppliers, everything was going smoothly.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Sales had had reached an upward, upward spiral or an upward arrow, I should say.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then year two, I think you really see what you're made of because number one, you are literally at this point, for in my case, building a business.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, I would say year two because the building process really kind of kicked off right then.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what would you say actually moves the needle most in your business right now?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's a very good question.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, I think it's I think it's prospect or customer education.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: When we're talking of cybersecurity, we're talking about, you know, things that that are highly technical.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the folks that we deal with, it's it's cybersecurity is something they know, it's a phrase they've heard.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: They're not necessarily aware of how to secure their networks, how to prevent a compromise, and heaven help us, if something does happen, how to get all my data back.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of education in my field now to speak with the business owner, and I try to get to the C level as much as I can, the business owner and the C, the, the CFO, to understand what happens and and how much a compromise and an outage of service will cost your company.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now, fortunately, there are some very good statistics out there now and very accurate analytics that I can show the prospect or the business owner.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it gives it the attitude a face at that point because they say, okay, whatever this cybersecurity thing is, I don't, I don't know exactly how it works.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: But if you can do that and save me this heartache financially, let's take it a little a step further.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that the step further is when what I found is successful is you show them the parts and pieces and what happens without the parts and pieces.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: And if there's a pain point, you know, so much the better.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Not necessarily for the client, but for the future of the client not to go back into that pain point.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say, I would say definitely uh customer education.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what would you say, or you know, what would you say is one thing you're doing today that's giving you an unfair advantage over your competitors out there?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: I like to spend a lot of time with my people.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Where we are in our market space, it's still a good face-to-face environment.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: So many of the issues we deal with as a company, we deal with remotely.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's the nature of a managed data service provider.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: But to go out and engage with the customer, engage with the prospect, talk about where they are as a company.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know their growth pattern, I want to know their expansion, I want to know if they're going to a second location because it's my responsibility to put them in this position to grow electronically, get the services they need.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, if it cost as little money as possible, but I'm not going to go cheap.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a fallacy as well.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I would not be there to save people money necessarily.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: If it happens, it happens, but I'm there to present a solution that they can work with now, grow with well into the future, and feel comfortable about it.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess to pinpoint the answer is if I establish this relationship now, I will have this relationship for years.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: As long as myself and my team do what we're supposed to do, it's going to be fairly easy to do business with them.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And as I mentioned in the very beginning of the conversation, I've had customers right now that I've had for 20, 25 years.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we become professional friends, then maybe personal friends.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: I see them out in chamber events, I see them out in BI meetings, I see them out, you know, in golf tournaments and things like that.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And if we do a good job, and thankfully we have, that that warmness is always there.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: So recurring revenue and recurring business is the absolute everything in our industry.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that's probably what I would say is the relationship that I build and continue to build on incredibly.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I am.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I am.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: We we travel, I don't know, I'd say within 200 miles and our customer base is growing.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I try to avoid Teams meetings on things that are very important.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because what I found historically is, again, if I can sit down and talk with someone, and there's always that wall that people that people think are there.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: It may, it may technically be there in their mind, but I want to get through that wall.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: I want to talk to the person as a person, and then I can feel them out a little bit, what their pain point is.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they have technology, they just don't want to pay for it.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they don't have technology, but have some money to spend.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe the the the uh inability to have technology is too great.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: So they know they have to have it.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm there to consult with them and to meet them where they are with a state of the art and state of the budget.
• 18:58
  unknown: Okay.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you can't really do that with with a Teams meeting, right?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: You got to be there in person to do that.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: I love Teams, but there's nothing better than being face-to-face.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: I the other thing, too, with this, Cliff, is I've been in appointments with a C-level person and they would bring their CFO in, or they would bring their office manager in.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then the discussion gets great because you get to hear multiple sides, and each position in the company has their own side and has their own issues that they deal with and their own perception of maybe the same problems.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: If I can get in there and I can extract some of those things, I know I can help the customer on various, various job performances.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now I know you talked about this next question earlier, but let's dig into a little bit more.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, have you ever had to make a tough call, like letting someone go or cutting something off that ended up being the right move long term?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's start this way.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: I had an engineer that was a really good engineer.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: He was, he was a younger engineer, and the situation started developing where he didn't kind of want to work after hours or work on urgent, urgent service requests.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's he would he would decline them.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the situation required someone, and then another engineer would have to take over and pick up that case, and especially if there was an outage.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one particular day, the young man decided he did not want to take the call.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I got another engineer, but he had to drive in for like an hour and 15 minutes.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, me being a father, he had to miss his little girl's first softball game.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: So the heart and the mind had to get together there and have a little conversation with the young engineer on Monday morning.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we chatted for a little bit and we got real and he actually quit.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: I did not have to, I didn't have to relieve him, but he understood where I was coming from.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And years later, now this is one of those stories that you may have heard before, the years later story.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Years later, you know, we became friends, and he told me, he said that was the best thing that happened to me because it pushed me out of the nest, and he started his own small company as well.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: And we know each other today.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's that's awesome success uh, you know, transition story there.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, yeah, he lost a job, but in in in hindsight, he ended up gaining a business and being a business owner, and I guess that's probably best for him, right?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: I've been told.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: It took some maturity that he didn't have, you know, at 23.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, at 35 years old, he's happy and he's got a wife and a couple of kids and a nice little business going.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I don't know if I was really, you know, any part of that, but but certainly the motivation was there.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 21:43
  unknown: All right.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I appreciate you answering this question.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna get into what's called the quick fire round.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so how this works is I'm gonna go ahead and I'm gonna basically tell you one word or read one word out to you.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want you to tell me, you know, give me back one word and then expand upon that with a couple sentences, why you chose that word.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So first word is success.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Success is different to different people.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: I look at success as being a successful person in the community as much as financially successful.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I see my customers at the grocery store or out in out in town every day.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want it to be a very positive, positive thing both ways.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Failure.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Failure, not an option.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a very competitive person.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so to think of failure, I'm not geared to do that.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not geared to handle that well.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Not in terms of being a bad sport.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's just I will go the extra mile to win.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I want to make sure I win and I do everything, you know, ethically in the proper way, but I will definitely, definitely do whatever it takes to win.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Burnout.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Real.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Burnout is a real thing.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: When you go into business, there's that imbalance that is, okay, how much time do I spend on the future looking at, you know, making my goals based on my cash flow, based on my revenue, based on my employees, all this good stuff.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like that has to happen.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't like that answer, by the way.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Can you give me that again?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that's fine.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Burnout.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Burnout is real.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think you have to learn to understand yourself and understand what it takes when you feel like you're getting to that mental burnout or physical burnout.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: They both are real and they both can happen, hopefully not at the same time.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, when when that particular burnout feeling happens, really have to back off a little bit.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Back off and say, hey, it's gonna be great, no problem.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Let me regroup and hit it again.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Scaling.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Scaling.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Scaling.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: I I keep going back to financial.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: I keep going back to cash flow.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: I keep going back to when is the proper time to grow?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: When is the proper time to just stay steady?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: There's a time and effort, I guess.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think the best time for scaling for me is right before it, you're really knee deep in it.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm talking about growth.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: When scaling in my terms is when do I add another employee?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: When do I add another high, high-priced engineer?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: I need to see something from my sales forecast that says, okay, we turn over this one more account, we're going to be slammed and we will not have enough people.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's it's just a math problem, to be honest with you.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be able to cover that person and do the best job I can for the customer.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Competition.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Competition, I love competition.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think competition, my competition loves me too much because of because of our history and because of what I just explained.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't mind competition.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't mind telling the prospect why we're different, which creates another situation is we have to be different in some way.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I like to tell stories during competition in competitive times.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: These stories need to be some success stories that the person I'm speaking to can relate to.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're in a competitive market space, that's great because there's always there's always something to compare yourself to.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't mind comparing our company or me to other companies.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I don't know that I'm not going to slam them and say them by name, but I'm going to say, well, here's what I've seen in our industry and move on and and discuss how we would we would beat our competition.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the last word is freedom.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, freedom is well, that's a good one.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Freedom to me is just to be able to do whatever I want to do.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that could be going to work and having a great morning and hanging around the guys, going out and visit some customers, and then the very next day go fishing.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: I do believe in a reward system for myself.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: If I set my goals and I get my goals, I don't mind, you know, going and playing around in golf.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, my son and I going somewhere and doing something.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: I just think the freedom to choose what you want to do that day is just the best, best thought in the world.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: All right, perfect.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Appreciate you getting through that quick fire round.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: So where do you think your industry is going and what are most people getting wrong about it right now, would you say?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's something different every day, Cliff.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: And in the security industry, it's so funny because people are affected and they have no idea.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, the old phrase, what you don't know can't hurt you, that's never been wronger or more incorrect.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Wrongger out, sorry.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's never been more incorrect because the bad guys get better.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's the good versus evil.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: The bad guys will come up with a compromise, a new software, a new way to get into someone's network that the good guys have to counteract, but the good guys have to be one step above.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: We can't just meet it where it is.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: We have to defeat it when it comes back.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's very tough.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of the things that is out of sight, out of mind.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody walks in their office and says, Wow, I'm glad I wasn't compromised last night.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: But we have literally been on job sites at eight o'clock in the morning.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: The company employees come in and say, Wow, what are you guys doing here?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Did somebody call you?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: You having a project going on?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Say, well, no, but actually there was a compromise attempt at 3:30 in the morning, you know, Monday morning, and we're here to see what's going on.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: We know this happened, this happened, this happened based on our statistics, based on our reports.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: And we want to see if there's a need to, you know, isolate some more machines.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: The the customers have no idea what that's going on.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's that's one of the things I think would be the very, you know, the thing we deal with the most.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, okay, okay.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now, for this next answer to the next, which I want you to be as candid as you can.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, let's just say hypothetically, a small business owner is listening to the podcast episode today with your children.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And let's just say they're having a bad go of 2026, you know, bad, it's just not going their way.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: They feel stuck or overwhelmed in their business.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: What's a piece of advice you'd give to them today?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, I'd say welcome to the club.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think every entrepreneur that I know of has felt that way at some point.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very real.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Things may not be going well from the sales area or you know, the employee area, you may be having some other issues.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: You just got to suck it up, brother.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only thing I can tell you is it's it's very good to back off, you know, get out of that situation for a little bit, regroup.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: I would encourage them to speak with someone of a knowledge of their same business, of their same skill set, you know, get some coaching.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be too proud that you think you can't fail.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, get the help you need, you know, make your changes you need to make it, and put the hammer down.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: So what's next for you know, Paladin Business Consulting?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: What should people be excited about for the near future?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Great question.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: We are to a point now, I guess we would say year three.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: We experienced great growth year one and year two.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Year three, we're changing some things around.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: We're changing our web presence.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's not quite a full rebrand, but we are getting more of a laser focus on a couple of vertical markets rather than more of, you know, a broad spectrum.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: We do very well in medical, we do very well in manufacturing.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's going to be some areas we're going to participate in, some peer groups.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's going to be where we are going to spend some time, some money, uh, getting to know the company owners.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny because when you when we sh when we sharpen our vision with the success we've had, there's a lot of the answers to the industry that we've already know.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're very excited about that.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: We're excited about getting out of our market space a little bit.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking for a national franchise to team up with.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's exciting.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think anybody our size in our market space has ever done that.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love to build things.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love to go in to our company and say, look, what can we build now?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Once we've got project A up and going, what can be project B?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: What can be project C?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's one of the things I think you can count on from Paladin is we're always going to be looking forward.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to be bringing new services in.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to be bringing in uh new personnel.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we're just, we're growth-minded by performing the best service anybody can do in our market space.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect, perfect.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, what's the best way for someone to connect with you or learn more about what you do?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think the best way for me is just contact me.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Either email me or give me a phone call.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I would like to spend some time just knowing about you, knowing about your business.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Is it a good fit?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: There may be a better fit for the company that I speak to that may not be us.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to be very honest and upfront.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: We don't do anything willy-nilly.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: We will want an engineer to go out and sit down and we'll talk and we'll see what the issues are.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I just feel like it's it's personal contact.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: I do great with answering my emails and my phone calls.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I would I would definitely recommend that.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you want to put it out there, you can.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: We don't mind that.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, my email is Sheldon S-H-E-L-D-O-N at paladinp A L A D I N B C dot net.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: And my direct number is 828-809-2155.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect, perfect.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Any social media?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: We do have our website, but it's getting ready to be completely revamped.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Feel free to go to paladinbc.net.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's far from where we want it to be.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: So give me six months and we'll see what it looks like.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Charles.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this has been fantastic.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you for coming on and sharing your story, your perspective, and your real behind the scenes of building your business.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Really appreciate you coming on, man.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: You had some really good nuggets in here about uh, you know, kind of building and maintaining your business all these years.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: So really appreciate it.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Cliff.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you again for having me.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.