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How Animal Protection Laws Really Get Passed: Lessons from Texas · The Animal Advocate

0:00
Legislative advocacy looks straightforward from the outside. You find a
0:03
problem, you draft a bill, you build support, and you
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push for passage. But in practice, the work is far
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more nuanced, and the choices you make along the way can determine
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whether a law works, whether it lasts, and whether it makes
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a real difference for animals. That's what this conversation is
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about.
0:26
Welcome to the Animal Advocate, where we arm animal
0:29
lovers with the information and inspiration you need to become
0:33
effective advocates. I'm your host, Penny Ellison, and
0:37
I've taught animal law and advocacy at the University of Pennsylvania
0:40
since 2006. If you've ever thought
0:44
someone should do something about that, I'm here to guide you
0:48
on your journey to being that someone. You can
0:51
find us on the web@animaladvocacyacademy.com
0:56
and that's where you'll find show notes and resources and and
1:00
send us your comments on episodes and ideas for topics you'd like to
1:03
hear on future shows. So onto today's
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topic.
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My guest today is Shelby Boboski, executive director of the
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Texas Humane Legislation Network, an organization that has been working
1:23
inside one of the toughest legislative environments in the country for
1:27
nearly 50 years. Shelby challenges some common
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assumptions advocates make about how change happens.
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One of the first is about allies. When people think
1:38
about building coalitions for animals, they often picture
1:42
other animal welfare organizations. Shelby
1:46
explains why some of the most effective partners are the ones you'd never
1:49
think to call, and why those unexpected relationships
1:53
often make the difference between a bill stalling out and or
1:57
becoming law. We also talk about enforceability.
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You can draft a thoughtful, well intentioned law, but if no
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one has the authority, resources or incentive to enforce
2:08
it, the impact is limited at best.
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Shelby walks through why advocates overlook this so often
2:16
and how to think about implementation before a bill ever
2:19
gets introduced. Another reality we talk about is
2:23
what happens after a law passes. A win isn't
2:27
always secure. I know this from experience. I
2:31
worked on a law that passed and was later partially repealed and
2:34
weakened after the initial attention faded. Shelby
2:38
explains why staying watchful after passage matters just as
2:42
much as getting a bill across the finish line. And finally,
2:45
we talk about work that rarely gets credit. Opposing bad
2:49
bills. Everyone wants to champion the new reform.
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Far fewer people want to spend months stopping legislation that
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would quietly make things worse for animals. Shelby makes
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the case that this unglamorous work is often where the most
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meaningful protection for animals happens. There's a lot
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here for anyone serious about changing laws and keeping them effective.
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So let's take a listen. Welcome Shelby. I'm So glad to be
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talking to you. Thank you so much for having me.
3:20
So tell me about the Texas Humane Legislative Network,
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how it got started and how long you've been around.
3:28
Excellent. So we are proudly
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celebrating our 50th anniversary this year. The Texas
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Humane Legislation Network has been around since
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1975, and the founders of our
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organization are just simply amazing.
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After attending a conference in D.C. together
3:49
in 1975, a group of them met up
3:53
in D.C. and said, we need to do something statewide. And so
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thus, the Texas Humane Legislation Network began.
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We have 50 years of passing really important and
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critical legislative bills relating to
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the animal welfare in Texas, but also killing
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some really bad, horrific bills out there as
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well, which I'm sure you understand. A lot of people don't understand
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how many bad bills animal organizations
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tend to destroy at the same time because they'd be terrible for
4:27
animals. Give me some examples of some of those bad bills that you
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killed. Sure. We worked very hard in
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2011 to pass a law that
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would regulate breeders of dogs and cats
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in the state of Texas. And now three times
4:46
there have been efforts to repeal that law. So we had to fight
4:50
those. There was actually a bill that we teamed up
4:53
with Fair Chase Hunters because it would
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have allowed hunters in other states to use a
5:01
joystick to go ahead hunt and kill
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animals in canned hunting facilities and basically
5:08
send them back to their states. And so we thought that was
5:12
such a terrible way to hunt in our state,
5:16
so we came out against that as well. And then horse
5:20
slaughter. Horse slaughter has truly been
5:24
illegal in the state for over 50 years. But then
5:28
people didn't know that there was actually this law that was
5:32
out there. And there were two slaughter plants in Texas
5:37
that ended in 2007. So there have been a couple
5:40
of bills to bring horse slaughter back to Texas, and we were able to kill
5:44
those. Well, that is great and fascinating
5:48
because I've put a lot of thought into
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partnerships and collaborations with people
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that. And groups that would be unexpected, and there's
5:59
not a lot more unexpected than animal
6:02
protection people partnering with hunters. But I've kind of come to the same
6:06
conclusion, that there are issues that they
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often have more money than animal welfare people, and. And they care about the things
6:13
like you talked about, about really brutal or
6:17
unfair hunting methods. And they also care a lot about preserving open
6:20
space. Correct. You know, I'm so glad you
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brought up partnerships. Whenever we talk to our advocates, we
6:28
explain that the reason we've been so successful over the last 50
6:31
years is because partnerships are key. Even in
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an incredibly red State, we're so red, it's burgundy.
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But we've really found success through
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working with other stakeholders and other groups, just some, to
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mention Texas Animal Control association, the
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Texas association of Sheriffs have been big
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fans of ours, and we've worked together on an amazing
6:58
law called the SAFE Outdoor Dogs Act. But also our
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dog fighting and cockfighting laws, in which we've strengthened
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over the years. We would not have happened but for the support
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of the Texas association of Sheriffs and also
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our law enforcement organizations, but
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sometimes even some religious groups. For
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example, a while back, we were trying
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to pass a law that all but banned
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greyhound racing, and we had really found
7:30
solace in partnership with some of our Baptist
7:33
associations in Texas. So, you know, who's
7:37
ever willing to work with us on the humane treatment of
7:41
animals and codifying that through laws we will work
7:44
with? Because at the end of the day, through the passage of one law, you
7:48
can effectuate change for thousands of animals at a time.
7:53
Why wouldn't you work and look for common ground and
7:56
stakeholders that will help support your mission? That is.
8:00
That is really excellent advice for advocates, including keeping in mind
8:04
that you don't have to want it for the same reason. And if you both
8:08
want the same outcome and you both want this law to pass, even though you
8:11
wouldn't necessarily agree with their reasoning, you can still partner with them. And you
8:15
mentioned sheriffs and law enforcement, so I think that's important
8:19
for anything around cruelty enforcement. I know we've done that here
8:22
in Pennsylvania. And you mentioned an issue that's near and dear to my heart
8:26
that I hope to make a difference on in the near future, and that's
8:30
outdoor housing for dogs that are left outdoors. You know, we both.
8:33
We both live in areas of extreme weather and maybe different kinds of extreme weather.
8:37
So that sounds like a success story that you might be able to talk
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about to teach advocates how you made that happen in, as you
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mentioned, a red state like Texas. Right. So the
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SAFE Outdoor Dogs act, which I'm gonna call Soda for
8:52
purposes of our time today, was
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really a story for the ages. You know, we started.
9:00
We filed the bill back in 2015, and
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basically all the SAF Outdoor Dogs act does is it
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creates a base level for the treatment of outside
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dogs. We had done a ton of studies and polling
9:14
throughout the state, and we knew that we couldn't ban tethering
9:18
altogether, because then what would people do? Well, they would
9:22
just put dogs in, you know, airline cargo
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containers or crates in their yards, and we knew that would not
9:29
work. So we Thought, okay, let's give them the
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basics. If you are going to tether a dog
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24 hours a day, seven days a week, what does that dog need?
9:39
Proper food, water, shelter and tether. And so
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we started the journey in 2015. We, we
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meet in Texas every two years. So it took until
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2021. We passed the bill
9:54
at midnight, went to Governor Abbott's desk and he
9:58
vetoed it. But we didn't stop there. We
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continued to work on it. And we actually
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got the bill in this special session just a couple
10:08
months later. And it was the first bill in the history of
10:12
any animal welfare bill to be brought and passed in a
10:16
special session. It took a lot of compromise
10:19
and that was tough for us, but we did not compromise on
10:23
chains. So we are the first step state in the United States to
10:26
ban chains as a method of legal restraint.
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And I will tell you that this bill and the passage of it taught
10:34
us so much. We could not believe all the
10:37
dogfighters from outside of Texas that
10:41
tried to influence our legislature. You
10:45
know, ADBA came in strong and. That'S an
10:48
organization I haven't heard heard of. What is that?
10:52
American Dog Breeding Association. That was my guess. But okay,
10:56
yes, from the akc. Correct.
10:59
AKC came out against us. But what we did
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is we showed our Texas legislators that these were
11:07
outside influences and that Texans themselves were
11:10
sick and tired of driving by a home and seeing a
11:14
dog on a chain in 100 degree weather, without proper
11:18
shade and with no water. And the dog was truly being
11:22
tortured. This was one of those bills that we worked with a ton
11:25
of partners, including our sheriffs, because
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other than the large cities in Texas, a lot of
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the animal control is done by sheriffs and their deputies.
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And so they were sick of being called to a property and not being
11:41
able to do anything. Because at the end of the day, our current
11:44
law that we had nothing to do with at that time was not working.
11:48
So it truly is a success story. And now I love
11:52
it. I have sheriffs throughout the state reach out to me and say,
11:55
man, I've cleaned up my community and
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I've really taught our dog
12:02
owners how to take care of a dog. We Also now
12:06
have awesome 1 pagers on our website that are
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truly paint by numbers that show exactly how what
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Texas citizens who own dogs that are tethered, what they are
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responsible for and what the law is. So, you know,
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anybody interested in passing any type of similar legislation,
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please reach out to us. Because if you can do it in Texas and you
12:28
can pass an animal welfare Law here, you really can do it
12:32
anywhere. Well, that's there. There are so many lessons in there. And yes,
12:35
I will absolutely include your contact information in the
12:39
show notes. And so
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obviously one lesson in there is patience and persistence.
12:46
Because you had to push for years, you had to survive a
12:50
veto, you had to get it introduced in a special session. You had,
12:54
I guess persistence is one lesson. Collaboration with
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all the partners that you talked about is another lesson. And you also mentioned
13:02
not getting the bill you dreamed of that to get something through,
13:06
you have to. You know, many animal lovers that aren't involved in
13:09
legislation, their heart just bleeds for animals that
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are left outside, not only in 100 degree heat, but in 10
13:17
degree weather where it's snow and ice here in Pennsylvania. And
13:21
they don't know why. We can't pass a law that just says you have to
13:24
bring your dog inside, can't be outside, can't be on each other, and
13:27
that you just have to deal with what's within the realm of
13:31
possibility. Not necessarily what you or I would do with their dog,
13:35
but like you said. And that's how you respond to the objection, right? To say,
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people say, I'm a farmer, I'm a rancher, my dogs love to be outside.
13:43
Well, maybe they do. And then we're not saying you have to bring it inside
13:46
him, him or her inside, but you do
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have to provide a baseline. And that's the way you described it, just a baseline.
13:55
Absolutely. And you know what we would tell those advocates is
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we are a statewide organization. We have to
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believe in progress over perfection. But if you
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want to go to your own town and ban tethering altogether,
14:10
here is a toolkit to do that. Again, we're just
14:14
passing a law throughout the state that is that base. But we
14:17
are more than happy to help you work within your community
14:22
to ban tethering altogether. And you bring up a really good point too,
14:26
in terms of bringing dogs inside. You know, a lot of people
14:29
said, well, I don't understand why you don't do time tethering like you, you can
14:33
only tether your dog for an hour. And we truly
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worked with our Texas Animal Control association. We have
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over 5,800 animal control officers throughout the state.
14:45
And our whole point is we want to pass a law that
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they are going to enforce. Exactly. So many people focus on
14:52
passing a law, but have no idea if it's even enforceable.
14:56
And so from our standpoint, it is so simple to sit there and
15:00
say, okay, the dog's been out for an hour. The ACO is watching them.
15:03
They bring the dog back in. Well, two seconds later, they can bring the dog
15:07
out again, and then the clock starts ticking. So that was not the best use
15:11
of your ACO officer's time to sit at that one person's house for an
15:14
hour. That's right. And so from our perspective,
15:18
the best thing we could do is when that dog is outside,
15:22
food, water, shelter, and proper tether. And, you
15:26
know, our acos partnered with us all
15:29
six years on this bill because they want to
15:33
educate, they don't want another dog in the shelter, they don't want to seize your
15:36
animal. But if they can go out and make a teachable moment and
15:40
explain to people, you know, how to use this so that, again, the
15:44
public knows what they've got to do, and the ACOs know how to enforce
15:48
it. It's truly one of our most successful laws here, and we're very proud of
15:51
it. And you make another good point there about the goal
15:55
is not to bring all these dogs into shelters. The shelters have enough dogs. And
15:59
I think that's another mistake that people make that see these things on social
16:03
media, and they think that the correct answer is to see the dog. And if
16:06
the dog is seized, everything's good, but it's not the best solution.
16:10
The best solution is to. Is to teach that person what they need to provide,
16:13
and if we can and have the money to help them provide it. Help them
16:17
provide an appropriate shelter or learn about when
16:21
the dog needs to come inside. Absolutely. So you obviously picked that
16:25
as a target issue because there's a lot of suffering involved in outdoor dogs.
16:29
And you made another very good point about enforceability.
16:34
How do you pick your priorities as a statewide organization?
16:38
It's a great question. You know, we have a really
16:42
sophisticated board of directors, and a
16:45
majority of them are attorneys. And we've been lucky and
16:49
fortunate to have several of them that actually practice animal law and
16:53
have been doing so for a long time. So we go
16:57
out and do a tour during the interim. As I said before, Texas
17:00
only meets in every two years for six months. So during that
17:04
interim, we go and talk animal control officers,
17:07
sheriffs deputies, law enforcement, rescues, shelters, and say, what
17:11
is the number one issue for you? Dogs being tethered outside was a
17:15
huge issue because of our heat and, like you said, the inclement weather.
17:19
But what we have really focused on
17:22
is about five or six main points. For
17:26
example, is this an issue that affects all Texans?
17:29
Right. Is it not just a local issue? What is the
17:33
likelihood of success? You know, there are so many animal laws that
17:37
you and I would love to pass, and they'd be on our bingo cards, but
17:40
there is no way we're going to be able to pass them. Right. You
17:44
know, that's a. That's a sad but true point. I mean. Correct. You only
17:47
have so much time and energy. Yeah. And you want to put it. I
17:51
mean, frankly, in your state and sometimes in mine, any animal
17:55
protection bill is an uphill climb. So you don't want to pick the steepest climb
17:58
because then you might get nothing. Right. And we put so much money and
18:02
effort into our lobbying that if there's not a likelihood of
18:06
success, then we don't want to go after it. Will this bill
18:10
educate people in the meantime? Perfect example is a
18:13
mandatory spay neuter law. Texas is one of the highest states for
18:17
overpopulation and animals ending up in our shelter. But we know
18:21
from previous attempts it just doesn't work, you
18:24
know, trying to pass a mandatory spay neuter law. Tell me why. Because
18:28
I see that comment on social media all the time. We should just mandate
18:32
spay and neuter. Tell me why. Believe me, I would be
18:36
the first one to do that. But I think that's a good example of
18:40
local locality and what works for
18:43
your city, town, county, or community versus a
18:47
statewide bill. We can't even. We have tried to push
18:51
that bill and we've had a great bill in the past. How about spay or
18:54
neuter upon third intake? That means your dog
18:58
or cat. Well, cats are a little different now, as we know. But let's say
19:01
your dog has been out now three times and
19:05
ended up at the shelter three times, and it is still not fixed.
19:09
You must spay or neuter that dog. My gosh. American
19:12
Kennel Club, Responsible Pet owners, Dog of America,
19:16
the Texas chapter, which is basically a bunch of breeders, they
19:20
all come out against this legislation and it's very
19:23
difficult to get a hearing. But at the same time, we
19:27
have a vet shortage and we don't. We don't want to be taking
19:31
away dogs or cats because of the fact
19:34
that we don't want those ending up in shelters
19:38
because it takes them three or four months to get a spay neuter
19:41
appointment. You know, what we liked about that spay neuter upon third
19:45
intake is, you know, you weren't going to. Every home scene of each
19:48
dog was spayed or neutered. Right. It was just the bad actors that kept
19:52
letting their dogs out. But even that shows to be such a
19:56
challenge. That's amazing to me. So yes. You're talking about dogs that
20:00
end up in a shelter for a third time. So there's. These are people who,
20:02
you know, didn't have one accident that their, their
20:06
contractor left a gate open. These are people who are, their dog is regularly getting
20:10
picked up or at least three times. And the breeder groups
20:13
still oppose spay neuter at that point. Because that doesn't sound to me like
20:17
there's an argument that. Well, that could be a responsible hobby breeder.
20:21
Absolutely. Camel's nose, under the tent
20:24
argument. Right. They're coming for our dogs next. And
20:28
it's, it's rather silly as we know that. You know, for example, my
20:32
current shelter is at
20:35
150% over capacity. Right. So it's incredibly
20:39
frustrating. But again, let's focus on things we can pass.
20:43
So this past session we had a great bill. It's a
20:46
license plate bill, and the license plate says spay
20:50
neuter Adapt. And it is a roving billboard for
20:54
thousands of people on every Texas highway to see. But
20:57
the $22 from that license plate goes into a fund for
21:01
low cost spay neuters throughout the state,
21:05
especially for rural areas. So although we can't pass
21:09
a mandatory spay neuter law now, let's look
21:12
and see what we can do. And that's providing spay neuter funding for some
21:16
of our most rural and underserved communities. Oh, bingo.
21:20
That is, that is exactly what I'm working on. In fact, I'm speaking on a
21:23
panel at the Humane Expo in April on subsidized spay
21:27
neuter and coming up with creative ways like that to fund it. Because you're.
21:31
Some states like Delaware, they're, it's small enough, they're lucky enough that they can
21:35
just get it in the state budget that, you know, they get a million dollars
21:38
to do this. But there are other creative ways, like you said the license plate
21:41
or putting fees on pet
21:45
food manufacturers that sell in the state. Because
21:49
if we get back to the. Should we be mandating spay neuter? This is actually
21:53
sort of a cousin of that enforceability issue. Well, you can mandate it, but
21:57
it's expensive, it's not accessible to a lot of people. And
22:01
there is, as you pointed out, a shortage of vets. So you don't fix
22:04
the problem by mandating it. You fix it by making it more
22:08
accessible. Correct. And you know, from our perspective,
22:12
the cruelty issues in our state
22:17
are really at triage levels if we're in a hospital
22:21
setting. Right. And so we really need to focus on our
22:24
animal cruelty Law. We just updated again this year. We hope
22:28
to have it in the top 10 states of animal cruelty laws,
22:32
because we've added a negligence section that has really fixed
22:35
a loophole against dog groomers and boarders and
22:39
trainers. You had to prove that some level of intent to harm before.
22:44
Yes. And it really was a situation
22:47
where we've had these borders
22:51
that where if your dog dies, the most you can get. Because in
22:55
Texas, as in most states, animals or property. Right.
22:58
So the most you could get was just the amount of the dog. But also
23:02
a lot of district attorneys were not bringing these cases. And so now
23:05
we've worked with the district attorneys and. And corrected that
23:09
loophole. So our focus was let's get our cruelty statute
23:13
in line and then, you know, move throughout what other issues
23:17
we're looking at. We're very proud of THLM
23:20
passing the first truly animal
23:24
sheltering guidelines and standards in this state. And
23:28
so now we hope to focus on that as we move forward, along with
23:32
stopping the puppy mill pipeline to Texas,
23:35
a bill that we've been trying to pass for two sessions now.
23:39
Well, let's talk about that then, because we talked about your big success with
23:43
the outdoor dog housing. So hopefully
23:47
this will be a future success. So tell me about the puppy mill pipeline, because
23:51
there are lots of states that are trying to pass retail sales band. So
23:55
tell me what's going on in Texas. Yeah, we were really watching
23:58
New Jersey closely. So we know
24:02
through amazing partners like Bailing Out Benji
24:06
and Humane world.
24:10
I'm sorry, HSB. Thank you.
24:14
We know that over 15,000 puppies
24:18
are transported into our state to be sold at
24:21
retail locations. We have less than 50
24:25
stores in our vast, huge state of
24:28
Texas. So we're. We're really explaining to
24:31
legislators we need to stop the puppy mill
24:35
pipeline. Of these 15,000 puppies that come
24:39
in, they are not fixed. They are sold at
24:42
ridiculous prices, and
24:46
oftentimes they are sick.
24:49
They have real congenital defects. Right.
24:54
And so it's not only an animal welfare issue, but it's a
24:57
consumer issue. And last session at both
25:01
hearings, I mean, people lined up
25:04
to talk about the defective dog that they purchased that
25:08
either passed away or left them with mountains and
25:12
mountains of vet bills. And it was really
25:15
telling what the store owners were saying. So
25:19
we have called it the ethical pet sales bill, because in Texas,
25:23
we want to welcome all types of businesses to our state,
25:27
but not those that are unethical. And we believe that
25:31
every store that came down and testified, we do not
25:34
believe that they are selling puppies in an Ethical
25:38
manner. And because we just worked on
25:42
the Texas dog or cat breeder law and we updated
25:45
it and strengthened it. We have great breeders here.
25:49
Obviously, in my opinion, I'm always going to go to a shelter
25:52
even if I want, you know, a chiweenie teeny.
25:56
Right. Like all these different expensive
26:00
mutts. And let's remind everyone they are not true breeds. They are all
26:04
mutts. Right. But if I want one, anything that ends in a doodle,
26:09
Bernadoodle schnitz, a doodle poodle. Right. All of those
26:12
animals now can be found at shelters and rescues. But let's say I want
26:16
to go straight to a breeder again. We just
26:19
passed and updated our dog or cat license breeder law so we have
26:23
great breeders right here. You can go and meet the parents. You can
26:27
go find out if it is a reputable breeder. There is no reason we
26:30
need to import 15,000 unaltered puppies into the
26:34
state a year. And I will just tell you this. Why are we
26:38
killing ourselves as rescues and transporting out
26:42
thousands of dogs on a daily
26:45
basis out of our state only to import 15,000
26:49
puppies? It makes no sense. Clarify what you said. For people
26:52
who aren't in the world of rescue, that so, so Texas is
26:56
overwhelmed. Their shelters are overwhelmed and they're, they are transporter
27:00
shelters. So they are trying to get shelters that are up north that might
27:03
have some space to take their dogs. Because like you said, you
27:07
can probably find any kind of breed in a Texas shelter. So some, some
27:11
of those breeds, you know, wouldn't be found that much in northern shelters. So they
27:14
ship them up north. And at the same time though, there's 15,000
27:17
puppies coming into Texas. So you're, you're trying to, trying to empty
27:21
the bucket, but the bucket has a hole in it because all the puppies are
27:25
coming in. Yes. And you mentioned also, so obviously
27:29
the AKC and other breeder organizations do not like these bills
27:33
that say you can't sell puppies in pet stores and
27:37
think that it's anti breeder. But as you point out, ethical breeders
27:41
are willing to show you their facility. And ethical breeders want
27:44
to know where their puppies are going. If they breed a particular
27:48
type of dog that has particular needs, they're going to want
27:52
to know that it's going to a home that understands those needs and
27:56
is willing and able to accommodate
27:59
them. I've always assumed that responsible breeders that care about their
28:03
dogs don't wholesale them to pet stores. Is that your view?
28:07
Yes. And ethical
28:11
breeders support the ethical Pet sales bill. You know
28:14
who else supports it? Pet stores. Right. Pet
28:18
stores that don't sell puppies because they have found a business
28:22
model that works. But these pet stores that sell
28:25
puppies, they hire incredibly expensive lobbyists.
28:29
And remember, we only have six months to pass our bill.
28:33
So there's a thousand ways to kill a bill and only one way to pass
28:36
it. So if you are listening to this today and you have not heard of
28:40
thln and you live in Texas, by all means, please go
28:44
sign up for our action alerts and help us pass this bill. We were
28:47
incredibly close this session, but again, this, this is a
28:51
tough bill, but we believe in it and we think it is the right
28:55
thing to do because we know that if we shut down that
28:58
puppy mill pipeline to our state that we will be
29:02
a better state as a result of it. Let me tell you really quickly about
29:06
Frankie. Frankie was this amazing
29:09
dog that I fostered. She was
29:13
six months old and dumped at a rural shelter
29:17
and sat there for two months. She had an.
29:21
She was a puggle, she had an underbite, her back leg
29:24
was messed up. And she was sold from a pet store in East
29:28
Texas to a 78 year old man.
29:32
Everybody knows that that is a terrible
29:36
breed for that type of person. Right.
29:40
And she sat with me and she basically came to me feral.
29:44
We were able to get her on a transport and send her up north, but
29:48
I could not adopt her in the DFW area.
29:51
So this is a good example of what legislators really cling to
29:55
because once that puppy is sold, those pet stores don't care.
29:59
They've made the money or sold them on a credit
30:02
card or some kind of credit line and they will not take your
30:06
calls again. Yeah, the credit that they give is another consumer
30:10
issue. Exactly. And I know that, you know, in states like Pennsylvania
30:13
where we haven't been able to get a retail sal ban passed, we started
30:17
decades ago with a puppy lemon law. So it was trying to sort
30:21
of go in through the back end and say, well, if you produce
30:24
puppies in such a way that they have congenital defects and get sick, you
30:28
should be able to recover from the breeder in an effort to discourage the breeder
30:32
from breeding dogs that are sick. But
30:35
usually that means that the condition has to show up very
30:39
quickly and you have to take action very quickly. And a lot of these
30:42
genetic type problems don't show up until down the road.
30:46
And you're exactly right. And our
30:49
organization has made the choice to ban
30:53
puppies being sold altogether because we have seen
30:57
the unscrupulous actions that these breeders have taken in other states.
31:01
And we don't want to open that door here through a puppy lemon law or
31:04
anything else. Again, we are talking less than 50 stores,
31:09
and in our opinion, these are unethical businesses. I urge
31:13
anyone that that believes differently to go watch those hearings and
31:16
see for themselves. When you had a person that bought
31:20
a puppy from a pet store, talk about their experience and the
31:24
owner come up next and the legislators say to him, so what do you have
31:27
to say about this? Oh, I, I was out of town. I'll have to look
31:30
into that case. Oh, my gosh. Right. I mean, we, we know it's just
31:34
about the money, so we're excited for
31:37
2027. 2027 is
31:41
your next shot to get that bill passed. Correct. Okay, well,
31:44
I will make sure to put the information in the show notes so
31:48
that people in Texas can connect with you and get on your list. I'm excited
31:52
to see, to see what happens and to learn from you in the future.
31:56
So thank you. Shelby, Penny, thank you so much. Thank you for what
31:59
you're doing in your state. And I love working
32:03
with other organizations in other states that are similar to
32:07
ours because we have one of the most difficult
32:10
jobs. Right. A lot of us serve as volunteers.
32:15
We have five employees, but we didn't 10 years
32:18
ago. So we're growing and we hope that other
32:21
grassroots C4s grow in their states
32:25
because it's so important for legislators to hear from people
32:29
in their own districts that animal issues are important to them. So
32:33
thank you so much. Legislative advocacy
32:36
isn't just about good ideas. It's about building the right
32:40
partnerships, thinking through enforcement, staying
32:43
engaged after a bill passes, and knowing when stopping
32:47
bad policy matters just as much as advancing new proposals.
32:51
If this conversation gave you energy or sparked new ways of
32:55
thinking about advocacy, I want to share something with you that I just put
32:59
together. I created a brand new resource called the four Cs
33:02
of legislative advocacy for Animal. I really enjoyed
33:06
creating it, even though it took me a long time. But I think it'll be
33:10
really useful for advocates who want practical tools, not just
33:14
slogans. It's a short, downloadable audio series
33:18
that lays out a clear framework you can apply in your own advocacy
33:21
work. And you can download it for free at
33:24
animaladvocacyacademy.com
33:27
4c's that's F O
33:30
U R C S 4Cs.
33:38
That's it for today. The Animal Advocate Podcast is brought
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And remember, compassion is great, but
34:27
compassionate action is infinitely better. Until
34:30
next week, Live With Compassion.