Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #754 Why Doing Their Best Might Not Be the Best

Transcript

#754 Why Doing Their Best Might Not Be the Best · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
0:05
Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just answers.
0:10
Speaker 1: Now, as they get older, we don't just let them
0:13
Speaker 1: free range. What we do instead is we say, we
0:15
Speaker 1: really want you to do well. We have high hopes
0:18
Speaker 1: for you, and we want to support you the best
0:19
Speaker 1: that we can. What is it that you need from
0:22
Speaker 1: us so that you can do a really, really great job.
0:26
Speaker 2: And now here's the stars of our show.
0:28
Speaker 1: My mum and dad. Well, Kylie, if it today's listener question,
0:31
Speaker 1: I have a lot to say.
0:33
Speaker 2: You've always got a lot to say.
0:35
Speaker 1: I can't couple of you said that on the podcast.
0:39
Speaker 1: I do have a lot to say. But before I
0:42
Speaker 1: dive into today's question, we're going to dive into another
0:45
Speaker 1: question that came through just recently via podcast at Happy
0:48
Speaker 1: Families dot com dot I think you can answer this
0:51
Speaker 1: one quickly. It's completely for you. And since I've got
0:53
Speaker 1: so much to say about our proper listener question, I'm
0:55
Speaker 1: slotting this in this This came in about a month ago.
0:58
Speaker 1: It came in on the third of April. I'm so
0:59
Speaker 1: sorry to Mish who sent this one through, but she
1:04
Speaker 1: said episode seven thirty three, what keeps Kylie up at night,
1:08
Speaker 1: and just because of school, holidays and so much going on,
1:11
Speaker 1: we haven't had the chance to address it. And I
1:12
Speaker 1: think this is your chance to shine, Kylie and make
1:15
Speaker 1: me look terrible. Hi there, says Mish. Just listen to
1:19
Speaker 1: the episode on what keeps Kylie up at night? So
1:21
Speaker 1: this is a question for her. How do you handle
1:24
Speaker 1: Justin's sleeping through everything? Do you not feel resentment that
1:28
Speaker 1: you have to do all the night wakings and many
1:29
Speaker 1: other things. I can't seem to get over it with
1:32
Speaker 1: my husband since we birthed our son and he's over
1:34
Speaker 1: a year old already. I work full time too. I'd
1:36
Speaker 1: love to hear how you manage it and yet still
1:38
Speaker 1: feel love and recently celebrated twenty five years together and
1:41
Speaker 1: hold it all together. Oh so, for those of you
1:48
Speaker 1: who missed the context back in episode seven thirty three,
1:50
Speaker 1: we highlighted it in the early days, I didn't really
1:53
Speaker 1: do a good job of waking up in the night
1:54
Speaker 1: and still don't. If something happens in the middle of
1:56
Speaker 1: the night, I just don't know because I sleep through it.
1:59
Speaker 1: And Kylie, you don't ever seem to give me any
2:03
Speaker 1: curry about it. You don't sort of resent me for it.
2:06
Speaker 1: You just get up, deal with it, and fall back asleep.
2:09
Speaker 1: Is that how do we respond to Michelle?
2:14
Speaker 2: Honestly, I think in the early days, in the very
2:18
Speaker 2: very early days, I would never have dreamed to give
2:21
Speaker 2: up that role. I wanted to get up to my baby.
2:25
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:25
Speaker 2: But over time, with more children and more exhaustion kicking in,
2:32
Speaker 2: there were plenty of times where I wished that you
2:35
Speaker 2: would have got up, And there were plenty of times where,
2:38
Speaker 2: like in that episode I talked about, I literally physically assaulted.
2:43
Speaker 1: You to try and get you out of bed, and
2:45
Speaker 1: I slipped through the assault.
2:47
Speaker 2: But if I can just kind of paint the picture
2:50
Speaker 2: a little bit, when we got engaged at two am
2:52
Speaker 2: in the morning and we woke our parents up, your
2:55
Speaker 2: parents literally woke up and gruffly said, you're getting married.
3:00
Speaker 1: Go to slop. Yeah, talk about in the morning, leave
3:01
Speaker 1: us alone. Whereas your parents, they got out of bed,
3:04
Speaker 1: they cried, they hugged you. So, for those of you
3:06
Speaker 1: who don't know the story, long story, very short, I
3:09
Speaker 1: proposed over the phone at two o'clock one morning.
3:12
Speaker 2: But that's a story for another day.
3:13
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, yeah, But that pretty much.
3:16
Speaker 2: Describes our abilities during the night, and so I've actually
3:21
Speaker 2: learned over time that it's just not a strong point
3:24
Speaker 2: of yours. You actually do not function in the middle
3:27
Speaker 2: of the night, like you literally don't function.
3:30
Speaker 1: If a burglar was trying to burgle us, we would die.
3:33
Speaker 1: You you would be the protector because I wouldn't know,
3:36
Speaker 1: and or I'd roll over, you know, not take what
3:38
Speaker 1: you want. I'm asleep, I don't care. Just go.
3:41
Speaker 2: So there have been a very few handful of times
3:44
Speaker 2: where you have been useful, yes, But more times than
3:46
Speaker 2: that you actually just create more anxiety in me, and
3:49
Speaker 2: it's easier to deal with things on my.
3:52
Speaker 1: At one point, we got to I got to a
3:55
Speaker 1: level where like, if I have an inkling that you
3:59
Speaker 1: need a hand, and then I will act on that.
4:03
Speaker 1: But if I don't have that inkling, then I won't
4:05
Speaker 1: act on it. And I think that I'm helpful all
4:08
Speaker 1: during the day and in the mornings and in the
4:09
Speaker 1: evenings and in the night time, I don't hear anything.
4:12
Speaker 1: But the times where I have heard something and that
4:14
Speaker 1: inkling has sort of tickled the back of my mind,
4:16
Speaker 1: I've gotten up and I've done whatever I needed to do. Happily,
4:19
Speaker 1: whether it's cleaning up dog vomit or looking after kids
4:23
Speaker 1: or whatever it.
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Speaker 2: Is well, and I guess that's probably where I was
4:26
Speaker 2: going to go with it. For Michelle, it's just the
4:27
Speaker 2: acknowledgment that I recognize that you're not ignoring the situation
4:33
Speaker 2: at nighttime.
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Speaker 1: I'm asleep, You are asleep.
4:36
Speaker 2: Dead asleep, And there are so many other ways in
4:42
Speaker 2: which you support me, and so over time as I
4:46
Speaker 2: came to recognize that this was actually just the way
4:50
Speaker 2: our lives were, and research even supports like moms are
4:54
Speaker 2: tuned into their babies, they hear them. That's how we've
4:58
Speaker 2: been designed, and so I do. I'm fully aware of them.
5:03
Speaker 1: You are not miss We hope that that answers your question.
5:06
Speaker 1: Now we've given ourselves a lot less time than we
5:08
Speaker 1: probably need to answer the question that's come through from
5:10
Speaker 1: a listener by the name of Well. I won't mention
5:12
Speaker 1: her name, but I love the emails that we get
5:14
Speaker 1: from our listeners, and I just love the pure intention
5:18
Speaker 1: to help kids do well. This one, though, has got
5:21
Speaker 1: me Well, Like I said, I've got a lot to
5:23
Speaker 1: say about it. So I'm going to read this for you.
5:25
Speaker 1: It says did Justin and Kylie. I'm a long time
5:27
Speaker 1: listener to the podcast Read all your books Your Friday,
5:29
Speaker 1: I'll do Better Tomorrow is not to miss for me,
5:31
Speaker 1: no matter how busy I am is it always reminds
5:33
Speaker 1: me to do my own self reflection. I have a
5:36
Speaker 1: question for you. How do we set an expectation for
5:39
Speaker 1: our kids for schoolwork when they're not very motivated or
5:42
Speaker 1: self driven. I'm always highly motivated to do my best,
5:47
Speaker 1: and it's hard not to put any expectation on our
5:49
Speaker 1: kids to achieve, or at least to try their best.
5:52
Speaker 1: My twelve year old daughter keeps saying that she's not
5:54
Speaker 1: mini me, which I get, but it's hard to let
5:58
Speaker 1: go of that expectation, especially because I know that they're
6:00
Speaker 1: really smart kids and if they put in the effort,
6:02
Speaker 1: it'll go a long way in their lives. I'll give
6:04
Speaker 1: you an example. My daughter was doing an appland test
6:06
Speaker 1: and I know that she could do better, but she
6:08
Speaker 1: just focused on completing it rather than perfecting it. So
6:10
Speaker 1: the result was not good and I was disappointed. I
6:12
Speaker 1: didn't say much, but she sensed my disappointment and got upset.
6:16
Speaker 1: Should I let go and not put any pressure on them?
6:18
Speaker 1: How Should I handle this as I know both kids
6:21
Speaker 1: are gifted and they can achieve whatever they want if
6:23
Speaker 1: they're interested and put some effort. All I want for
6:26
Speaker 1: them is to try their best, and I'm happy with
6:27
Speaker 1: whatever result they get. I'm not focusing on the result,
6:30
Speaker 1: but on their effort. But I'm not seeing that they're
6:32
Speaker 1: putting their one hundred percent in. Should I just let
6:35
Speaker 1: them free range whatever they want so they'll be happy?
6:38
Speaker 1: I don't want them to waste their intelligence. I'm sorry
6:40
Speaker 1: if it sounds like I'm bragging, but I feel a
6:42
Speaker 1: bit lost. Help.
6:44
Speaker 2: Okay, So I've got a few things to say to you.
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Speaker 1: I love I love this email. I just this is
6:51
Speaker 1: a mum who just wants the kids to succeed, and
6:53
Speaker 1: they've got the potential. And it's not I tapped into.
6:56
Speaker 2: Probably every single parent would be capable of writing that
7:00
Speaker 2: email at some point child's total I think the thing
7:04
Speaker 2: that stands out to me the most is who gets
7:07
Speaker 2: to determine what is our children's best? Like, how do
7:14
Speaker 2: you decide that your child isn't doing the very best
7:17
Speaker 2: that they're capable of doing in that moment.
7:19
Speaker 1: So we haven't conferred about our notes, but the second
7:21
Speaker 1: thing that I wrote down was trying the best, Like,
7:24
Speaker 1: how do I know? And I've tried my best, do
7:26
Speaker 1: you know what I mean?
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Speaker 2: Like, and in any given moment, your best will be different. Yeah,
7:30
Speaker 2: what it was yesterday or what it will be in
7:31
Speaker 2: two weeks.
7:32
Speaker 1: Time or tomorrow night when I'm really tired versus right
7:34
Speaker 1: now when I'm feeling good. There's there's different there's different bests.
7:38
Speaker 1: But when I look back on even this podcast that
7:40
Speaker 1: we're recording now, I know that we've put time and
7:43
Speaker 1: effort into preparing individually, but we.
7:47
Speaker 2: Could do so much better.
7:48
Speaker 1: I'm going to listen to it again and go, oh,
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Speaker 1: I didn't say this or I should have said that.
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Speaker 1: I don't know if that was my best, but it's
7:53
Speaker 1: the best in the moment based on the constraints that
7:55
Speaker 1: we're dealing with. Like well, even with.
7:57
Speaker 2: Nap plan, I mean, how many of us actually do
7:59
Speaker 2: really well and test settings. But I can do all
8:03
Speaker 2: of that work if I'm just doing it at my
8:05
Speaker 2: own free will and without the pressure of knowing that
8:08
Speaker 2: it's during an exam conditions. But then put me in
8:12
Speaker 2: that situation and all of a sudden, my brain doesn't work.
8:14
Speaker 1: Let me give you another provocation about trying your best
8:16
Speaker 1: as well. I don't actually believe that it's in anyone's
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Speaker 1: best interest to try their best in everything.
8:21
Speaker 2: Well, I'm listening to her and she's talking about the
8:23
Speaker 2: fact that she is highly motivated to do her best
8:28
Speaker 2: in everything.
8:28
Speaker 1: Uh huh.
8:29
Speaker 2: I am that person. And as I have learnt more
8:34
Speaker 2: about myself, my motivation is my desire to please other people.
8:39
Speaker 2: My motivation is perfectionism because it allows me to recognize
8:46
Speaker 2: my worth in that situation. So if that's what we
8:50
Speaker 2: want our kids to do, then I think we've actually
8:53
Speaker 2: lost the battle.
8:54
Speaker 1: And as you say that, it makes me wonder, is
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Speaker 1: you're worth really predicated on how perfectly you do that thing? Like? No,
9:00
Speaker 1: And is you're worth really predicated on the way other
9:03
Speaker 1: people are perceiving you?
9:04
Speaker 2: But I've spent forty years thinking it was right. And
9:07
Speaker 2: so when I don't do things to the standard that
9:10
Speaker 2: I think I'm capable of doing.
9:12
Speaker 1: Because you've got to do your best in everything.
9:15
Speaker 2: Then I'm an absolute mess at the other end.
9:18
Speaker 1: So all, with all respect and gentleness and sensitivity here,
9:24
Speaker 1: doing your best in everything could actually be pathological because
9:27
Speaker 1: it drives it drives this incessant perfectionism, and it also
9:31
Speaker 1: drives everyone around you crazy because then you're expecting that
9:34
Speaker 1: if you're going to do your best, then they have
9:35
Speaker 1: to do their best as well, which is really it's
9:38
Speaker 1: really hard for everybody.
9:40
Speaker 2: Having had six children who all at different times in
9:44
Speaker 2: their schooling have not been motivated to do their best.
9:50
Speaker 2: I have come to the conclusion having married someone who
9:54
Speaker 2: almost failed high school.
9:56
Speaker 1: Well I did. I mean I scored in the bottom
9:57
Speaker 1: fifteen percent of the state and has.
10:00
Speaker 2: Managed to turn life around. I it just we've got
10:06
Speaker 2: to take the pressure of our kids.
10:11
Speaker 1: So let's talk about a couple of other things here.
10:14
Speaker 1: The question of motivation is a really big one. And
10:16
Speaker 1: in my brand new book, which comes out tomorrow, In fact,
10:20
Speaker 1: it's online right now. You can get it right now online,
10:22
Speaker 1: and it's even on a few Boo book store shelves
10:24
Speaker 1: right now as well, even though it officially launches tomorrow.
10:27
Speaker 1: In my brand new book, I walk through something.
10:29
Speaker 2: That's what's the name of it.
10:30
Speaker 1: It's called the parenting Revolution. Thanks for asking. I walk
10:33
Speaker 1: through this thing called the motivation continuum. If we want
10:37
Speaker 1: our children to do well in anything, to have a
10:39
Speaker 1: go to be motivated We've got to consider the different
10:42
Speaker 1: kinds of motivation, because motivation isn't just you've got it
10:44
Speaker 1: or you don't. There's different forms of motivation. And I
10:47
Speaker 1: stepped through this motivation continuum. Are you ready? I'm going
10:50
Speaker 1: to geek out for a sec because this really matters.
10:52
Speaker 1: There's something called a motivation. A motivation just means you
10:55
Speaker 1: don't have any at all. The next kind of motivation
10:57
Speaker 1: that you have is external or extrinsic motive. That's the
11:00
Speaker 1: motivation where I'm doing it because there's somebody waving a
11:03
Speaker 1: stick or dangling a carrot, is saying for every a
11:07
Speaker 1: you get, I'm going to give you fifty bucks. That
11:09
Speaker 1: kind of thing. So that's external motivation. The next form
11:12
Speaker 1: of motivation is called introjective motivation. That's basically where we've
11:16
Speaker 1: internalized the carrots and sticks. We're doing it because we
11:19
Speaker 1: think we have to otherwise something bad will happen, or
11:23
Speaker 1: because that's how you get good things. But those forms
11:26
Speaker 1: of motivation are extremely externally oriented. And when I'm reading
11:30
Speaker 1: this email, what I'm hearing is what can I do
11:33
Speaker 1: to motivate my kids? And whenever you're relying on external motivators,
11:38
Speaker 1: guess what. The kids aren't going to be motivated unless
11:40
Speaker 1: you're dangling enough money in front of them or punishing
11:42
Speaker 1: them badly enough. And that's that's terrible because as soon
11:45
Speaker 1: as you take away the incentives, the nice ones or
11:48
Speaker 1: the nasty ones, your kids lose motivation.
11:51
Speaker 2: Well, we're not going to go down the rabbit hole,
11:53
Speaker 2: but I mean, school these days has completely squashed so
11:59
Speaker 2: much of our kids desire.
12:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to be really gentle, and I know
12:03
Speaker 1: you do too, for teachers who are doing their very,
12:05
Speaker 1: very best. But when we're turning the classroom into a
12:08
Speaker 1: game show and you're getting points for the auction at
12:12
Speaker 1: the end of the month for whatever different kind of
12:14
Speaker 1: incentive or token systems being set up, the kids aren't
12:17
Speaker 1: learning for learning sake. The kids are learning something they
12:20
Speaker 1: can get the tokens. But then again, the curriculum, I mean,
12:24
Speaker 1: the curriculum for so many kids just sucks. I mean,
12:27
Speaker 1: there's so much stuff that they're learning about that they
12:30
Speaker 1: will never use for the rest of their lives. Will
12:31
Speaker 1: We had this conversation just the other day with our
12:33
Speaker 1: year eight daughter and our year ten daughter, and they're like,
12:35
Speaker 1: why are we learning this stuff? Why can't we be
12:37
Speaker 1: learning about And then because we were having a financial
12:39
Speaker 1: conversation about what's going on with inflation and interest rates
12:42
Speaker 1: and rentals and mortgages, and we've got a daughter who's
12:44
Speaker 1: doing property economics at UNI, and the year eight year
12:48
Speaker 1: ten girls are going, this sounds really interesting, like we
12:50
Speaker 1: want to learn about that, but we don't get to
12:52
Speaker 1: learn about that in high school mats. They teach other
12:55
Speaker 1: stuff that's not nearly as compelling, like serds. And so
12:59
Speaker 1: we've got these two external forms of motivation. The next
13:02
Speaker 1: form of motivation is what we call identified motivation, and
13:06
Speaker 1: that's when you start to do things because you can
13:08
Speaker 1: see that they're valuable, they're worthwhile, they're important. Here's the
13:13
Speaker 1: really good one, though, The really good one is what
13:14
Speaker 1: we call integrated motivation. Integrated motivation is I'm doing something
13:18
Speaker 1: because it's part of who i am. I'm a runner,
13:21
Speaker 1: I'm a cyclist, I'm a swimmer, I'm a mathematician, I'm
13:24
Speaker 1: a psychology researcher, i'm a dentist. And we do these
13:28
Speaker 1: things because it's part of who we are and we
13:30
Speaker 1: find delight in them. And then the ultimate form of
13:33
Speaker 1: motivation is called intrinsic motivation. That intrinsic motivation is where
13:36
Speaker 1: you do something just for the joy of it. Like
13:39
Speaker 1: I pick up books and read them for the joy
13:41
Speaker 1: of reading, mountains for the joy. I write up mountains
13:44
Speaker 1: for the joy of it. I go surfing for the
13:46
Speaker 1: joy of it. I spend time with my family for
13:48
Speaker 1: the joy of it. These things are intrinsically motivating. So
13:51
Speaker 1: the question I would have here is we've got a
13:54
Speaker 1: mum who's saying, how do I get my child to
13:57
Speaker 1: be motivated for school? And the reality is, we create
14:01
Speaker 1: an environment that is motivating. That is that it satisfies
14:07
Speaker 1: the basic needs that children have to thrive. And I
14:11
Speaker 1: hate to say it, but school mostly doesn't do that.
14:14
Speaker 1: And I say that again with all the kindness and
14:15
Speaker 1: respect and gentleness for teachers who are doing their best,
14:18
Speaker 1: But we have a system. It's a system that is
14:21
Speaker 1: outside of many teachers. There are some teachers who work
14:23
Speaker 1: within the system to do it, but it takes so
14:26
Speaker 1: much effort and an awareness of what you're doing to
14:29
Speaker 1: be able to create that. And so from my child
14:33
Speaker 1: not being motivated, it's like, Okay, well, what's going on
14:35
Speaker 1: with relationships at school? What are they doing that actually
14:38
Speaker 1: lights them up at school? And to what extent do
14:41
Speaker 1: they have any choice in what they're doing, Because those
14:43
Speaker 1: are the three basic psychological needs that feed that motivation.
14:47
Speaker 1: If you've got a child who's not feeling like relationships
14:49
Speaker 1: are great, or just doesn't really care for the material,
14:51
Speaker 1: or doesn't have any choice, then of course they're not
14:53
Speaker 1: going to be motivated the motivation, or at least they're
14:56
Speaker 1: not going to have the kind of motivation that leads
14:58
Speaker 1: to the kind of results that this mum want.
15:00
Speaker 2: In particular, the thing that has stood out to me
15:03
Speaker 2: the most as I've watched our six children go through
15:09
Speaker 2: school is when their grades aren't great nine times out
15:14
Speaker 2: of ten, it has more to do about their friendships. Yes,
15:17
Speaker 2: they don't feel like they belong. They don't have that
15:20
Speaker 2: unity and that structure that keeps them feeling safe and
15:24
Speaker 2: secure in their learning environment, and everything else flows from that.
15:31
Speaker 1: Let's move on to the last couple of points as
15:34
Speaker 1: we start to rape up this conversation. What I've noticed
15:37
Speaker 1: in this email is that mum is kind of swinging
15:40
Speaker 1: from an all position to a nothing position. Okay, so
15:43
Speaker 1: do I keep on going hard at the kids and
15:45
Speaker 1: telling them that they've got to perfect this and they've
15:47
Speaker 1: got to try their best and they've got to work hard.
15:48
Speaker 1: Or do I just let them free range and be
15:50
Speaker 1: happy with whatever result you get. And so we kind
15:53
Speaker 1: of the pendulum swinging from this end to the other
15:55
Speaker 1: end and then back again as this mum tries to
15:58
Speaker 1: work out the balance. Want to wrap up the podcast
16:01
Speaker 1: by sharing what we do with our kids and not
16:04
Speaker 1: every parent's not every parent's going to find this perfect
16:08
Speaker 1: for them, And every family is different, every child's different,
16:10
Speaker 1: everyone's motivation is different. But I feel like sharing our
16:14
Speaker 1: approach to schooling with our kids with you may be
16:18
Speaker 1: helpful here. So during the education process, especially in primary school,
16:24
Speaker 1: we have a completely let's just make sure the kids
16:27
Speaker 1: are enjoying themselves as much as possible approach. It doesn't
16:29
Speaker 1: always work, sometimes the kids are struggling in different ways,
16:31
Speaker 1: but we bend over backwards. Just make sure the kids
16:33
Speaker 1: have got good relationships, They have some choice in which
16:36
Speaker 1: school they're going to to the extent that we can
16:37
Speaker 1: allow them that, and we we really just encourage them
16:41
Speaker 1: to figure stuff out, develop their competence, and feel like
16:43
Speaker 1: they're in control of things. Once they hit high school,
16:48
Speaker 1: we let them know that we want to talk to
16:50
Speaker 1: them about where they're trying to go with the rest
16:52
Speaker 1: of their life, obviously recognizing that they can change their
16:54
Speaker 1: mind at any point because it's way too early to
16:56
Speaker 1: be having this conversation, but there is zero pressure. Zero pressure.
17:01
Speaker 1: In year ten, we say to the kids, Okay, one
17:04
Speaker 1: more year until the big two years that probably matter
17:07
Speaker 1: the most in your high school experience. So we want
17:10
Speaker 1: you to start to really understand what works, what does
17:13
Speaker 1: and in terms of study, and get the work done.
17:16
Speaker 1: So it's not until year ten that we start to,
17:18
Speaker 1: I guess chat with our kids seriously about what school
17:21
Speaker 1: is all about. In year eleven, though, that's when we
17:25
Speaker 1: sit down with our kids and we say to them,
17:28
Speaker 1: you're in your final two years. These two years the
17:31
Speaker 1: two years that determine your at are and give you
17:34
Speaker 1: optionality for what happens after high school. Our approach is
17:38
Speaker 1: essentially at that point to say to our kids, we
17:41
Speaker 1: are not going to tell you what to do. We
17:43
Speaker 1: are not going to hassle you to study, We're not
17:45
Speaker 1: going to make any demands of you. All we're going
17:48
Speaker 1: to do is ask you what it is that you
17:50
Speaker 1: want right now, what you want over the next two
17:52
Speaker 1: years and how we can support you best. And I
17:56
Speaker 1: think that's kind of about it, isn't it.
17:58
Speaker 2: I think the thing that we focus on when our
18:01
Speaker 2: kids come home and tell us the results of their
18:04
Speaker 2: various assignments and exams is there's no evaluation on our end, right.
18:10
Speaker 2: The conversation is, how do you feel about it? Do
18:13
Speaker 2: you feel like you did a good job?
18:15
Speaker 1: How did it feel to get the AP plus? How
18:16
Speaker 1: did it feel to get the C minus? And we
18:18
Speaker 1: let them tell us, and we say.
18:20
Speaker 2: They do the evaluation, they talk about it, and as
18:22
Speaker 2: a result, it leads into a conversation about what they
18:25
Speaker 2: could do next time, or just be excited, yeah, about
18:31
Speaker 2: the outcome and what they've learned through the process. The
18:35
Speaker 2: focus isn't on the grade. The focus is on the
18:38
Speaker 2: learning process.
18:39
Speaker 1: So for this mum, there's a couple of things I
18:41
Speaker 1: guess would summarize our conversation. First Off, we're talking about
18:44
Speaker 1: twelve year olds or children around that age. I don't
18:47
Speaker 1: think that there's any need for pressure at this point.
18:49
Speaker 1: There's no need for extra coaching and do your best.
18:52
Speaker 1: It's really just are you enjoying school? What we do
18:54
Speaker 1: to make it better? How can we make sure that
18:56
Speaker 1: it's an environment that you enjoy being in. The next
18:59
Speaker 1: thing is, as they get older, we don't just let
19:02
Speaker 1: them free range. What we do instead is we say,
19:04
Speaker 1: we really want you to do well. We have high
19:06
Speaker 1: hopes for you, not high expectations. We have high hopes
19:09
Speaker 1: for you, and we want to support you the best
19:12
Speaker 1: that we can. What is it that you need from
19:14
Speaker 1: us so that you can do a really, really great job.
19:18
Speaker 1: Where do you want to go? What's important to you? See?
19:20
Speaker 1: For my parents, they were forcing me to go to
19:22
Speaker 1: high school and do my best. But I wanted to
19:24
Speaker 1: be a radio DJ and I knew that I could
19:27
Speaker 1: leave school in year ten. I didn't need to have
19:29
Speaker 1: year elevant in twelve, and so I failed Year elevant
19:31
Speaker 1: in twelve. It was appalling, but my parents were forcing
19:34
Speaker 1: me to go because they thought that I had to
19:35
Speaker 1: get it done. Had they listened to me or had
19:41
Speaker 1: different conversations from me, I think that the outcome might
19:43
Speaker 1: have been quite different. But it just turned into big
19:46
Speaker 1: fights about how much they were paying for school fees
19:48
Speaker 1: and how much I was ungrateful and didn't didn't appreciate
19:51
Speaker 1: what a good education was, and that ultimately led to
19:54
Speaker 1: resentment and frustration and challenge. So for this, Mum, take
19:58
Speaker 1: the pressure off by having autonomy, supportive conversations where you say,
20:05
Speaker 1: I really want you to do well. I have great
20:07
Speaker 1: hopes for you. You have tremendous potential. What do you want?
20:12
Speaker 1: How can I support you to get there? That I
20:14
Speaker 1: think is going to be a far more effective way forward.
20:17
Speaker 1: We hope that's been a fun conversation. Don't forget grab
20:20
Speaker 1: my new book, The Parenting Revolution. It's available wherever you
20:22
Speaker 1: want to buy books. You can find it everywhere. The
20:25
Speaker 1: Pairing Revolution is out now and The Happy Family's podcast
20:28
Speaker 1: is produced by Justin Rowlan from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce
20:30
Speaker 1: is our executive producer, and for more info about making
20:33
Speaker 1: your family happier, check out The Parenting Revolution or visit
20:36
Speaker 1: Happy families dot com dot au.