Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / Rivals S02 Ep20b (Team Room 2)

Transcript

Rivals S02 Ep20b (Team Room 2) · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

• 0:05
  Right, welcome to the team room.
• 0:08
  Let's look at what, based on what we've seen the first week, the All Blacks and the Springboks on the show.
• 0:16
  Victor, if you're the coach of South Africa, what are the tactics that you're going to use to beat the All Black that you've seen on this weekend?
• 0:28
  Yeah, I think there's probably three things that's really important for South Africa if we want to beat the All Blacks.
• 0:35
  I think the first one is kicking game, and we spoke about it now on the show as well.
• 0:41
  Those aerial kicks, that it needs to be contestable.
• 0:44
  We need to win the aerial battle as well, and you can have a look at all the games that South Africa...
• 0:50
  Win is the one where we dominate the aerial battle.
• 0:53
  So, the aerial battle is going to be important.
• 0:55
  But for that, your set-ups need to be good.
• 0:58
  Your pack must also, if they're under pressure, then the nine's under pressure to kick.
• 1:03
  Then a lot of the time, the kicks aren't going where you want them to.
• 1:06
  So, you still want the forward pack to dominate those breakdowns, be on the front foot.
• 1:10
  Then the kick needs to come in.
• 1:13
  talk a lot about scraps because a lot of those, because it's a 50-50, the ball goes to the ground.
• 1:17
  So the organization around that to win those scraps is going to be very important.
• 1:23
  And from there, you can play.
• 1:24
  But I mean, from there, if you give turnovers to the All Blacks, you can be in trouble as well because they like opportunity for them as well.
• 1:31
  So that's going to be important.
• 1:34
  Then the second thing is the scrap.
• 1:36
  We know South Africa.
• 1:37
  Those are the two ways we're getting to the other players
• 1:41
  team's opposition 22.
• 1:43
  So either by the kicking game, turning it over, then we play, or even here on the halfway line, kicking the eyeballs, each of the 22 turnover, and then in that 22, we're pretty good if we get those opportunities.
• 1:56
  Or, of course, the scrum penalties.
• 1:58
  Keep the ball in the scrum, get the penalty, go for the line out,
• 2:02
  So I think attacking-wise, that's probably going to be very important for us.
• 2:07
  And then just on the fence.
• 2:08
  And we've seen the new DNA of the All Blacks.
• 2:12
  They do definitely want to play more.
• 2:14
  And I think they're very dangerous, especially in their own, closer to their own 22, where we need to have guys back as well for the kicks.
• 2:23
  That's where they're having a go at the moment.
• 2:26
  And for us, a guy like Jesse Creel is so important.
• 2:29
  He's reading those.
• 2:30
  A lot of people talk about, I saw this weekend, Nick Mallett and the boys talking about our defensive structure.
• 2:36
  For South Africa, it's all about they're not allowed to get more than two passes away.
• 2:40
  So on that second pass, you need to meet them, ball and all.
• 2:45
  The moment they get that extra pass away, you will be under pressure on the outside because we come so out of the line outside in.
• 2:52
  So it's all about
• 2:53
  that second last man of us making the right read, getting off the line, making sure he comes from the outside and he just cuts off the attack.
• 3:03
  And I think J.K. will probably talk about, you can see a lot of the New Zealand attack, they put guys on the shoulder from the inside, so they almost go behind the back.
• 3:13
  And there's another guy, even behind the guy that just sees the ball, that they can almost just put it back as well.
• 3:20
  That's something that's going to be a big contest.
• 3:22
  Can they get that third pass back away, or will a guy like Jesse Krill hit that ball before he can make that play?
• 3:30
  So as someone that's going to be watching the game, then that's a thing that we can watch for.
• 3:35
  Are the All Blacks getting three passes?
• 3:37
  Because if they're getting three passes, then we know, or are they being restricted?
• 3:41
  It's a way of us judging the game.
• 3:44
  J.K.,
• 3:45
  Can I just say in this, so if you think about, and we did want to illustrate that, where Tui Piloto scored against Ireland.
• 3:57
  If you see that set up at the back with, I think Lava was coming and there was two guys behind him.
• 4:03
  That's what we're going to see quite a bit.
• 4:05
  And then it's just, and South Africa normally get one guy making good three to stop that whole play.
• 4:10
  So I think that's something we can have a look at in the weeks to come.
• 4:15
  So you've seen the South African game plan via Victor.
• 4:17
  JK, you're the attack coach.
• 4:19
  What are you going to do?
• 4:20
  How are the All Blacks going to unravel that defence and that scrum and those highballs?
• 4:27
  Well, I think that the high ball situation is coming up with a plan that is a little bit different.
• 4:35
  So rather than being deep, you could be a little bit shallower and be running onto the ball going backwards, if that makes sense, or try and catch it laterally rather than coming forward.
• 4:47
  Because coming forward, the attackers are more dominant.
• 4:49
  So to answer your question, Ricardo, we absolutely need
• 4:54
  to take control of that area because then you take a, take a, a very important part of the game off South Africa.
• 5:02
  So we've got to find a new technical way to dominate there.
• 5:06
  Um,
• 5:07
  Firstly, I think secondly, the most important thing is there's many, many ways to take on the South African scrum.
• 5:15
  And most forwards who have massive egos and don't like to step down will say, let's take South Africa on in that scrummaging.
• 5:24
  So we have to at least be at parity there.
• 5:29
  But if I was your black coach, I'd be also thinking about...
• 5:34
  something that I saw a little bit the other night.
• 5:36
  You know, an early hit, Victor, the ball coming through channel one or channel two, whichever is the fastest, and you get someone like Peter Larkai or you get someone like Artie Savia picking off the scrum and taking off.
• 5:50
  Because then all of a sudden, your loose forwards start saying, I'm under pressure.
• 5:54
  I'm not going to push as hard because what if...
• 5:56
  You know, he's my man.
• 5:57
  So there's different ways that you need to attack the scrum and put South Africa into two minds.
• 6:03
  The second one for me is our attacking, kicking game and running game early.
• 6:10
  You know, we talk about defences and how you break those down.
• 6:13
  You break those down also by kicking.
• 6:16
  So the outside in defence...
• 6:18
  There are weaknesses in that, and a lot of the weaknesses are just in behind the winger.
• 6:23
  So you'll see a lot of kick passing, but also I'd like to see a lot of short kicking just in behind the line that brings the fullback forward.
• 6:34
  The other thing you've got to take into consideration, and I think especially is up on the belt, where the ball will fly a lot further, so an extra 10 or 15 yards.
• 6:45
  And so discipline for the All Blacks will be fundamental.
• 6:49
  And the third thing is, and I know you guys will say, stop harping on about it, JK.
• 6:53
  But the referee needs to let the game flow and he needs to make sure that there are no... And I got a lot of, what I call it, hate mail, possibly, when I called one of the Irish players.
• 7:07
  Huge.
• 7:07
  You get hate mail, that can't be.
• 7:10
  Everyone loves you, Jake, eh?
• 7:11
  Yeah.
• 7:14
  Let's call them professional fouls or going down when you're not injured.
• 7:19
  So I think the referees need to take control of the flow of the game and make sure that there are no moments where the game's being slowed down because people are tired.
• 7:29
  Yeah.
• 7:30
  So I don't think...
• 7:34
  the refereeing stuff's really a tactic.
• 7:36
  I'm not disagreeing with you because I wouldn't do that.
• 7:39
  But what about how...
• 7:42
  It's a mess.
• 7:42
  Ricardo, Ricardo, Ricardo.
• 7:44
  See, that answer from me, from you, really, really annoys me because you asked us for the public what they can look at.
• 7:53
  So let me see this.
• 7:54
  15 rucks.
• 7:56
  The All Blacks have run it from their 22.
• 7:58
  We're in the 22 of the opposition, and someone goes down with a sore neck.
• 8:04
  and there's a two-minute break in play.
• 8:07
  Do you think that is within the essence of the game?
• 8:15
  Are you happy with professional fouls?
• 8:17
  What if it's the prop and then they need to scrum and the neck is sore?
• 8:21
  It won't.
• 8:21
  Safety, J.K., we need to look after safety of the players.
• 8:25
  I totally agree with the safety.
• 8:27
  I reckon you should have a lie detector test.
• 8:30
  A lie detector so we can find out.
• 8:32
  In the field.
• 8:33
  Yeah.
• 8:34
  So you guys take the piss.
• 8:35
  But during a game of rugby when the opposition is tired, it's a very, very important thing for the All Blacks to continue to play at pace.
• 8:46
  So if you don't think it's professional fouls, if you think it's okay, then...
• 8:53
  I'll agree to.
• 8:54
  Again, for the 900th time on the show, I'm not disagreeing with you.
• 8:58
  I just think that... Why did you brush it off?
• 9:00
  Why did you brush it off as if it doesn't matter?
• 9:02
  I think the South Africans are incredibly honourable people and they wouldn't cheat.
• 9:07
  I didn't say cheat.
• 9:09
  I said professional foul.
• 9:12
  Victor's never done a professional foul in his life.
• 9:15
  Have you, Victor?
• 9:16
  Look at his face.
• 9:17
  Look at his face.
• 9:19
  All innocent.
• 9:23
  Yeah, but what about tactically, how are we going to speed it up?
• 9:27
  What sort of things are we going to do, we, the All Blacks?
• 9:31
  Well, you said it before, Ricardo.
• 9:33
  You said it before.
• 9:34
  You called it side to side, right?
• 9:36
  So early in the game, you know, against…
• 9:40
  against the Stormers, you saw side to side.
• 9:44
  You saw Bowdoin attacking from inside your 22.
• 9:47
  So very, very early, what you try and do is you try and run the big boys around.
• 9:52
  You try and get them running from the 22 back to a line out.
• 9:56
  So you're trying to make sure that you're
• 9:59
  playing at a pace, keeping the ball in field, not kicking it out, getting them running.
• 10:04
  And so that's the sort of tactic I believe the All Blacks will wanna play.
• 10:08
  We'll wanna run these big men as much as we can and put them under fatigue.
• 10:13
  Because when you're under fatigue,
• 10:15
  those decision making, the decision making that Victor's talking about just becomes that little bit harder.
• 10:20
  You know, you're backtracking, you're trying to get into line.
• 10:24
  And so that point of contact that Victor so loves is so important because, you know, the Japanese, and Victor will know this, you know, I coach them.
• 10:34
  They ran...
• 10:36
  they ran Australia close the other day because they actually don't want to go into that contact.
• 10:40
  They're always moving the point of contact.
• 10:43
  So you can't sit, you know, oh, there's the ball, oh, it's over there.
• 10:46
  So, you know, you let South Africa sit and South Africa will sit if you run into that, especially that five wall just outside the ruck.
• 10:55
  They will smash you.
• 10:56
  You won't win the advantage line and then the defensive line gets set and they can rush again.
• 11:01
  So you've got to break that down by shifting the ball.
• 11:05
  Yep.
• 11:06
  I'm getting excited.
• 11:06
  I think it's interesting because if you get it wrong, so we've always said you can't play around the rush.
• 11:14
  You need to play through the rush.
• 11:15
  And we actually saw it a little bit with Scotland at last.
• 11:18
  Remember that ball with the inside passes?
• 11:21
  where they changed a little bit from trying to play around us and they went through us.
• 11:25
  So, again, if you get it right and you want to try and go around, but, I mean, if we caught you, catch you five metres behind that vantage line, now we make the tackle, your forwards need to work back, we get stuck into that breakdown, put it to slow ball, you need to reload again, then we get energy again.
• 11:44
  So it's all about the decision-making of...
• 11:47
  when to go out of the back.
• 11:48
  If you do it too early and South Africa start catching you behind the advantage line, I think it's like the 2019 World Cup where England beat New Zealand in that semi-final with nice running rugby and they just played into South Africa's hands.
• 12:04
  They played too much.
• 12:05
  We smashed them behind the advantage line.
• 12:07
  We caught them every time they played out the back.
• 12:11
  They had to reload backwards.
• 12:12
  And I mean, talking about guys that's going to fake getting tired, if you need to go back to make cleans, then a lot of the time I see people go down...
• 12:24
  hold their hamstrings or something.
• 12:26
  And I think the other thing, I'll just ignore that, Victor.
• 12:29
  I'll ignore that little dig.
• 12:31
  I also think there's another thing.
• 12:34
  You know, when you go to South Africa, you know that it's going to be incredibly physical.
• 12:38
  So you need to prepare yourself for the physicality.
• 12:41
  But you don't necessarily need to take South Africa on physically.
• 12:45
  And when I say that, I mean you don't need to run at them.
• 12:49
  You need to use your footwork.
• 12:51
  You need to get that extra one yard past the advantage line.
• 12:55
  And if you can get that one line behind the advantage line, then they can't get their defensive line set.
• 13:01
  I agree with you, Victor.
• 13:02
  You can't always go around the defense.
• 13:06
  You've also got to go through it.
• 13:08
  And you've also got to have a kicking game.
• 13:10
  So what you're trying to do with defences, Ricardo, is you're trying to get everyone to think, what are they going to do now?
• 13:16
  And you go out there and just try and be physical and say they're going to lose it.
• 13:19
  But if you're making three guys make a decision, are they going to go on the inside now?
• 13:22
  There's an inside ball.
• 13:24
  Or are they going to go out the back?
• 13:25
  Or is there a little chip going through?
• 13:28
  Then the defence has to make decisions.
• 13:30
  The more you can try and make a defence, any defence make a decision, the better off you're going to be.
• 13:34
  So you've got to vary your game.
• 13:36
  Yeah, look, that's enough.
• 13:37
  I don't need to get too excited.
• 13:38
  Let's call it quits there.
• 13:40
  And it's a massive week.
• 13:43
  We've got a couple of games coming up, you know, and every game we're going to know more and more about how the All Blacks are going to play.
• 13:52
  We know a lot about how the South Africans are going to play, but...
• 13:56
  This is just the beginning of the greatest rivalry.
• 14:00
  Matt Field versus John Kerwin.
• 14:02
  I think there'll be some surprises though, Riccardo, from both coaches.
• 14:06
  You know, I don't think Rusty, I don't think Rusty is the guy who's, you know, I think in the first test, there's gonna be a couple of things that'll happen that are gonna try and unsettle the opposition from both sides, from a technical point of view.
• 14:21
  Yeah, I mean, you're never gonna say that Rusty is predictable, are you?
• 14:25
  No.
• 14:26
  He might announce a team tomorrow or next week.
• 14:29
  I don't know.
• 14:30
  The only thing that's predictable about him is that he's unpredictable.
• 14:34
  That's it.
• 14:35
  Yeah.
• 14:36
  All right, gentlemen.
• 14:37
  Thank you so much.
• 14:37
  We'll catch you next week with our sponsors, Ram Couriers and Rugby Rivals.