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TLC reality star busted for CHILD PORN! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: The wildly popular hit program Nineteen Kids and Counting that
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Speaker 1: aired on TLC sparked controversy then and now, as the
0:16
Speaker 1: eldest son of the clan, Josh Dugger, now indicted for
0:23
Speaker 1: child porn. Child porn should really be called video and
0:30
Speaker 1: photos of children, little children as they are molested, because
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Speaker 1: porn somehow suggests that both parties are willing and maybe
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Speaker 1: even have a contract to make money in a porn shoot.
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Speaker 1: This is so vile. If you've ever seen it, you
0:51
Speaker 1: will never get it out of your head. Two charges now,
0:56
Speaker 1: and it all starts with quite ironic, the idol Nineteen
1:01
Speaker 1: Kids and Counting. This is the story of my family.
1:12
Speaker 1: We are the Duggers. That's me, I'm Michelle. There's Jimpab,
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Speaker 1: my wonderful husband, and our children. Josh is our oldest.
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Speaker 1: He married Anna and they had our first grandchildren, Mackenzie,
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Speaker 1: Michael and Marcus. Then there's Jannah, John David Jill, she
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Speaker 1: married Derek, Jessea Ginger, Joseph, Josiah, Joy Anna, Jendiah, Jeremiah, Jason, James,
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Speaker 1: Justin Jackson, Johannah, Jennifer Jordan, and our youngest daughter, Josie.
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Speaker 1: That's a grand total of nineteen, and I delivered every
1:48
Speaker 1: one of them. Of course, with this many kids, we
1:51
Speaker 1: do things a little different than in most things. It
1:53
Speaker 1: isn't always easy, but somehow we got to all work.
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Speaker 1: I'm not judging about how many children they have, or
2:00
Speaker 1: about their deeply religious beliefs in a certain Let me
2:06
Speaker 1: just say, sect of Christianity, it's hard enough for me
2:10
Speaker 1: to work and raise two children. How you do it
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Speaker 1: with nineteen I do not know. That is not what
2:17
Speaker 1: brings us here today. What brings us here today are
2:22
Speaker 1: very very serious charges. Take a listen to this. Josh
2:28
Speaker 1: Dugger was arrested in Arkansas on Thursday, and on Friday
2:32
Speaker 1: the charges were revealed. The thirty three year old former
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Speaker 1: nineteen Kids in Counting Star is accused of receiving and
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Speaker 1: possessing child pornography. During a hearing over Zoom, Dugger pled
2:44
Speaker 1: not guilty to the federal charges. According to court documents,
2:49
Speaker 1: in May twenty nineteen, Dugger allegedly used the Internet to
2:52
Speaker 1: download child's sexual abuse material. He allegedly possessed the material,
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Speaker 1: some of which involved the sexual abuse of children under
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Speaker 1: the age of twelve. If convicted, Dugger faces up to
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Speaker 1: twenty years in prison and finds up to two hundred
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Speaker 1: and fifty thousand dollars on each count. Child sex abuse
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Speaker 1: videos pictures downloaded. You were just hearing our friends over
3:20
Speaker 1: at entertainment tonight and earlier you were hearing from the
3:23
Speaker 1: program Intro TLCS nineteen and County joining me an all
3:27
Speaker 1: star panel to try to make sense of what's going
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Speaker 1: down right now and how an alleged sex pest. Wow,
3:34
Speaker 1: that's a U femism. That's certainly putting perfume on the pig.
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Speaker 1: A sex pest, trisex molester got away with it for
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Speaker 1: years and years and years before now charges. Child sex
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Speaker 1: videos photos a little children being molested with me. Glenn Pounder,
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Speaker 1: Chief Operating Officer, Child Rescue Coalition, former International Liaison Officer
4:03
Speaker 1: for the UK's National Crime Agency, specializing in prevention of
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Speaker 1: child sex exploitation. You can find Glenn Pounder at Child
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Speaker 1: Rescue Coalition dot org. Troy Slayton, high profile criminal defense
4:18
Speaker 1: attorney joining us out of LA. You can find him
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Speaker 1: at Twitter at Troy Slayton. Doctor Joy Cross and Psychologist,
4:25
Speaker 1: Faculty Saint Leo University, Research consultant, Blueball Institute and author
4:31
Speaker 1: of Operation s OS which you can find on Amazon
4:35
Speaker 1: Chief Chris Buyer's former police chief John's Creek twenty five
4:41
Speaker 1: years as a cop, now PI and polygrapher at Chris
4:44
Speaker 1: Buyer's Investigations and Polygraphs dot com. But first to investigate
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Speaker 1: a reporter with Crime online dot Com, Alexis Terres Chuck. Alexis, Yes,
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Speaker 1: he was just arrested on two counts of child use
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Speaker 1: materials aka child porn. Take a listen, Alexis Cherez Chuck
5:06
Speaker 1: to our friends at Inside Edition. Was it an open
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Speaker 1: secret that Josh Dugger molested underage girls? Long before the
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Speaker 1: scandal erupted, there were troubling comments on the Internet aimed
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Speaker 1: at Josh Dugger and his parents eight years ago. In
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Speaker 1: May two thousand and seven, a woman who attended church
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Speaker 1: with the Duggers wrote, let me tell you something about
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Speaker 1: the precious Duggers that you don't know. She went on
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Speaker 1: to detail Josh Dugger's history of molesting young girls and
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Speaker 1: claimed his parents, Jim, Bob and Michelle, lied and lied
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Speaker 1: about their son to protect him. Is it true? Well,
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Speaker 1: apparently it is. Take a listen to ABC's GMA This
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Speaker 1: Morning bombshell sex abuse allegations against Josh Dugger, my life
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Speaker 1: as I had known it was changing, best known as
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Speaker 1: one of the stars of the TLC series Nineteen Kids
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Speaker 1: and Counting. This is our Stories. The shocking allegations of
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Speaker 1: appropriate sexual contact with several underage girls when Josh was
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Speaker 1: a teen, reported an in Touch magazine. Dougger responded to
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Speaker 1: the allegations on Facebook twelve years ago. As a young teenager,
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Speaker 1: I acted inexcusably, for which I am extremely sorry and
6:15
Speaker 1: deeply regret. I confessed this to my parents. We spoke
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Speaker 1: with the authorities, and my parents arranged for me and
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Speaker 1: those affected by my actions to receive counseling. Aleisa Stretchuk,
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Speaker 1: you and I covered that together. What happened within the family.
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Speaker 1: What happened? Josh molested his own sisters in their house.
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Speaker 1: In the Dugger's home. He started the first time that
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Speaker 1: he molested them. It was the parents had described it
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Speaker 1: as the girls were asleep and he was touching them
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Speaker 1: over their clothing and they didn't even know that they
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Speaker 1: were molested. However, it progressed to him basically attacking his
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Speaker 1: sisters all around the house. He cornered one of them
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Speaker 1: in a launder room and was putting his hands under
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Speaker 1: her dress. He had another little sister, little little sisters
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Speaker 1: like I believe under five years old, sitting on his lap,
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Speaker 1: and he was reaching under her clothes. He was attacking
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Speaker 1: his sisters in their home. And the duggers, the parents.
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Speaker 1: Do you know what their solution was to keep Josh
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Speaker 1: away from the girls. Mouse They built a new seven
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Speaker 1: thousand square foot house, and they put the daughter's bedrooms
7:21
Speaker 1: on the other side of their bedroom so that nobody
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Speaker 1: could get to their bedrooms at night, thinking that that
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Speaker 1: would help Josh stop molesting the girls while they were
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Speaker 1: in their own rooms. Okay, so what about the babysitter.
7:35
Speaker 1: We left that out. It's not just his sisters, four
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Speaker 1: of them, as I wouldcall, but a babysitter too, who
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Speaker 1: was not asleep at the time. Wait, wait, right, right
7:43
Speaker 1: right there, you're absolutely correct, Alexis terres Chuck. They first
7:48
Speaker 1: defense was that the girls were asleep. Let me ask
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Speaker 1: you this, Troy Layton, you're the high profile defense attorney.
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Speaker 1: How is it the sex molest victim was asleep any
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Speaker 1: different from the sex victim was drugged and passed out.
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Speaker 1: No difference, There is no difference. There is no difference
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Speaker 1: as long as the person who is committing the act
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Speaker 1: is doing it for purposes of sexual gratification for themselves.
8:15
Speaker 1: It's irrelevant crime stories with Nancy Grace to doctor Jory Crasen.
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Speaker 1: For a sex act not to be a crime, there
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Speaker 1: must be consent. And if a sex actors on a child,
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Speaker 1: they are under the law unable to consent. They can't
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Speaker 1: buy a car, they can't buy liquor or cigarettes, they
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Speaker 1: can't enter into a contract because they are minors. They
8:48
Speaker 1: also cannot consent to have sex. So the fact that
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Speaker 1: there is no consent, whether you're asleep or you're a child,
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Speaker 1: makes no difference. So why did the parents say that
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Speaker 1: as some sort of a if it said the girls
9:01
Speaker 1: were asleep when it happened. It seemed like a continuing
9:06
Speaker 1: initiation of enabling his behavior from the moment this started.
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Speaker 1: They just continue to like cover and make excuses. When
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Speaker 1: they said they moved him into treatment, he went off
9:18
Speaker 1: for three months. There's no kind of psychological mental health
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Speaker 1: counseling treatment in three months at this age and at
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Speaker 1: this level of intensity that he's experiencing that is going
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Speaker 1: to be successful. You know, very often, to former police
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Speaker 1: chief Chris Buyers now at Chris Barr's Investigations and polygraph
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Speaker 1: dot Com Chris. Very often you will see molestation within
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Speaker 1: the home. It's not always some creepy dude at the
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Speaker 1: end of the playground wearing a trench coat and a
9:51
Speaker 1: hat looking suspicious. It's very often a molester in your home,
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Speaker 1: an uncle, a father, and older brother. Yeah. Absolutely, I
10:02
Speaker 1: was thinking back over my time and law enforcement candation
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Speaker 1: in was an investigation within the home, within the family,
10:10
Speaker 1: within the confines of where the child should have been
10:12
Speaker 1: safe every time. That's where the investigation led to. So
10:17
Speaker 1: I guess the parents were torn between seeking justice for
10:20
Speaker 1: their daughters and the babysitter who were not all asleep
10:24
Speaker 1: when this happened, and turning in there. So let's take
10:27
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut seven This is Our Friend
10:30
Speaker 1: Byron Pitts at Nightline, stunning even by reality TV standards.
10:36
Speaker 1: The news came to light when in Touch magazine obtained
10:39
Speaker 1: a decade old police report detailing Josh's alleged molestation. According
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Speaker 1: to the magazine, the heavily redacted report details how Josh,
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Speaker 1: whose name did not appear, was investigated from multiple sex offenses,
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Speaker 1: including forcible fondly against five girls in two thousand and
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Speaker 1: two and two thousand and three, a female miner claimed
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Speaker 1: that Josh touched her breast and genitals while she slept.
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Speaker 1: In Touch magazine says charges were never pressed and the
11:04
Speaker 1: statue of limitations has expired. The Arkansas Police Department told
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Speaker 1: ABC News a judge ordered that the original report be
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Speaker 1: expunged from his record and destroyed. That happened years and
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Speaker 1: years and years ago. But it is my belief, and
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Speaker 1: yes it is anecdotal. I don't have a statistic to
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Speaker 1: back this up, but I've never seen a child molester
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Speaker 1: be successfully rehabilitated. To Alexis Terrestchuck, I know when the
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Speaker 1: crimes against his four sisters and the babysitter came to light,
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Speaker 1: And they came to light because somebody went online from
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Speaker 1: within their church talking about how the duggers were hiding
11:48
Speaker 1: or covering up the molestations. Then it got to I believe,
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Speaker 1: inside edition and they blew it wide open. But how
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Speaker 1: long ago that was? The years later? How long ago
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Speaker 1: did it actually happened? The crimes actually took place, The
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Speaker 1: more stations took place in two thousand and two and
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Speaker 1: two thousand and three, Okay, so two thousand and two
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Speaker 1: and two thousand and three, and today here we are.
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Speaker 1: Let's here cut twenty one our friends at entertainment tonight.
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Speaker 1: Josh Dugger was arrested in Arkansas on Thursday, and on
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Speaker 1: Friday the charges were revealed. The thirty three year old
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Speaker 1: former Nineteen Kids in Counting Star is accused of receiving
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Speaker 1: and possessing child pornography. During a hearing over Zoom, Dugger
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Speaker 1: pled not guilty. So now we're twenty years later approximately
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Speaker 1: and it's still going on. I mean, you know, I'm
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Speaker 1: not an md as shrink, I'm just a JD. But
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Speaker 1: to Glenn Pounder, the chief operating officer at Child Rescue
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Speaker 1: Coalition dot Org, he went to treatment, he never went
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Speaker 1: to jail. They swept it under the rug. They kept
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Speaker 1: it a secret. The little girl seem a lost their way.
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Speaker 1: Back then, we're just children. Now he's got child porn
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Speaker 1: or child sex, molest materials, jumping glam powder. Yeah, thank you, Antie,
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Speaker 1: and thank you for explaining to your listeners what it
13:18
Speaker 1: is we're really talking about. We're talking about children younger
13:22
Speaker 1: than twelve years old, sometimes violently being raped, and that's
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Speaker 1: what these recordings are. Child sexual abust material. But if
13:30
Speaker 1: I can, this case is a microcosm about what we
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Speaker 1: do Child Risking Coalition, And when I'm giving the demonstration
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Speaker 1: of our technology, I'll explain to people all the time
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Speaker 1: that the best cops using our system use it as
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Speaker 1: a way of identifying the suspect and then they ask themselves, Okay,
13:48
Speaker 1: what else has this guy done? So this case really
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Speaker 1: is a microcosm of that. And I'll say to people
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Speaker 1: all the time, if you arrest somebody in their thirties,
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Speaker 1: they could have been offending for ten, fifteen, twenty years.
14:00
Speaker 1: So the best investigators use that as the starting point
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Speaker 1: and then they walk backwards to find out when was
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Speaker 1: the first time this guy offended against a child. So
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Speaker 1: let me understand something, m Pounder, I said, my knowledge
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Speaker 1: of this fact, and I know it to be a fact.
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Speaker 1: I don't need a statistic study to tell me this
14:19
Speaker 1: because I've seen it over and over and over again
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Speaker 1: that child lessers cannot be rehabbed. You can send them
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Speaker 1: off to whatever expensive or not expensive rehab you want to,
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Speaker 1: they're going to do it again. It's just the way
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Speaker 1: they're made. Yeah, it's a very challenging area for psychologists
14:40
Speaker 1: who work with offenders to try and understand what made
14:44
Speaker 1: them defend them the first place, and then obviously what
14:47
Speaker 1: can help treat them, which, of course, for what we do,
14:51
Speaker 1: is so important to at least identify these offenders, because,
14:55
Speaker 1: as it's proven in many many cases until eighty five
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Speaker 1: percent of the time, those consuming this horrific child abuse
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Speaker 1: material are also committing hands on abuse at the same time.
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Speaker 1: So they're they're reoffending against those kids who were raped
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Speaker 1: or whether the point that took place, and of more
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Speaker 1: oft than not, they've either already committed hands on abuse
15:19
Speaker 1: or they're heading down the path to commit rape against
15:21
Speaker 1: the child. The reality is that, and I've dealt with many,
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Speaker 1: many adult victims of child molestation that these images they're
15:33
Speaker 1: really sick. As you just heard from our friend at
15:39
Speaker 1: Child Rescue Coalition, Glenn Pounder, that it's videos and pictures
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Speaker 1: of little children being forcibly ranked. It can't do that.
15:51
Speaker 1: There's really no nice way to put it. And I mean,
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Speaker 1: maybe some of the pictures are not violent, but many
16:01
Speaker 1: of them are. It's horrible. I took this fight to
16:06
Speaker 1: Congress and testified before a subcommittee, and with me I
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Speaker 1: had a little girl who I would say in her
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Speaker 1: teens by that time, who had been adopted out of
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Speaker 1: a Russian orphanage to an American pedophile, and he molested
16:28
Speaker 1: and raped the little girl would sometimes tire to a
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Speaker 1: tree and rape out in the yard and video it.
16:37
Speaker 1: And how she healed from that is beyond me. But
16:42
Speaker 1: then she had to deal with the fact that images
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Speaker 1: of this were being traded amongst child predators and perverts.
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Speaker 1: For the rest of her life. Those images were out
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Speaker 1: there every day some freaky dude was king and images
17:00
Speaker 1: of her being raped by her adopted father. As she
17:06
Speaker 1: still has to live with that, as do all of
17:09
Speaker 1: these child victims. There's a whole another lair to this
17:15
Speaker 1: about the show must go on with TLC's nineteen Kids
17:19
Speaker 1: in Counting while they knew these molestations had occurred in
17:24
Speaker 1: their home. There's the whole hypocrisy lair. Take a listen
17:30
Speaker 1: to our friend Ron Clayborne at ABC's GMA R Cut five.
17:36
Speaker 1: Dugger has also resigned from his position as executive director
17:39
Speaker 1: of the political We Have to Stand of TLC, the
17:43
Speaker 1: cable channel that airs Nineteen Kids in Counting now in
17:45
Speaker 1: its tenth season, declined comment. The Duggers have been outspoken
17:49
Speaker 1: proponents of sexual chastity, You guys, can't kids yet, which
17:53
Speaker 1: Josh Dugger, whose wedding was featured on the show in
17:55
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, talked about earlier this season during
17:58
Speaker 1: our courtship. So we just sided that there was going
18:01
Speaker 1: to be no kissing and obviously no sex before marriage.
18:05
Speaker 1: When outspoken opponents of gay rights causes like Prop eight,
18:08
Speaker 1: I truly believe that every child deserves a mother and
18:12
Speaker 1: a father, and I'm sure grateful for mine. And the
18:17
Speaker 1: Beggar family wields considerable political influence, many conservative politicians buying
18:22
Speaker 1: for their support. In twenty twelve, backing Republican Rick Santorum
18:36
Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, we are talking about
18:40
Speaker 1: the fact that in the last days, what are the
18:43
Speaker 1: stars of tlca's nineteen kids in County arrested for child porn,
18:49
Speaker 1: which is materials video photos of little children being raped. Alexis,
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Speaker 1: You've got the whole layer of Christianity. Somehow that makes
19:06
Speaker 1: the whole thing even worse. I mean, you expect the
19:09
Speaker 1: freaky dude at the end of the playground wearing the
19:12
Speaker 1: trench coat should be a purr, right, But you really
19:15
Speaker 1: don't expect it from this seemingly self professed Christian family.
19:21
Speaker 1: And while he was working for the Political Action Committee
19:25
Speaker 1: in Washington, DC, Josh Stucker was spending over a thousand
19:30
Speaker 1: dollars on Ashley Madison dot com. What that is is
19:33
Speaker 1: that was a website that was where you would go
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Speaker 1: online and find a person to have an affair with,
19:40
Speaker 1: to have sex with. And Josh was on there and
19:43
Speaker 1: their email, their database got hacked and it all got
19:47
Speaker 1: published and Josh Stugger was one of their top clients.
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Speaker 1: So while he's working in Washington, DC, first of all,
19:53
Speaker 1: was a child molester. Second of all is saying working
19:56
Speaker 1: to my rights to everybody else and talking about how
20:00
Speaker 1: wrong the family unit must be. He was cheating on
20:03
Speaker 1: his wife with there and she had I think at
20:05
Speaker 1: the time four children, four little, little little children, and
20:09
Speaker 1: he was cheating on her repeatedly. After that was exposed,
20:12
Speaker 1: he finally got fired. Right Alexis trust checked to our
20:15
Speaker 1: friend Gigi Chang at ABC. Former reality show star Josh Dugger,
20:20
Speaker 1: husband and father of four, often preached his Christian faith
20:24
Speaker 1: and family values at political rallies. Marriage is central to
20:28
Speaker 1: the family Randy Ducks, but now the former reality star
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Speaker 1: of nineteen Kids in Counting, who just months ago was
20:34
Speaker 1: in the spotlight for bad behavior again facing public embarrassment,
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Speaker 1: apologizing after being outed among the thirty seven million accounts
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Speaker 1: potentially hacked on Ashley Madison, the site known for matching
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Speaker 1: up married cheaters, welcomes to the cloud m In a
20:52
Speaker 1: statement on the Dugger family website, Josh calls himself the
20:55
Speaker 1: biggest hypocrite ever, saying, while espousing faith and family values,
21:00
Speaker 1: I have been unfaithful to my wife. He even confessed
21:03
Speaker 1: that he has a porn addiction, but later took that
21:05
Speaker 1: admission down. The scandal all the more shocking because it's
21:09
Speaker 1: Josh Dugger who's outspoken public moralizing so blatantly contradicts his
21:14
Speaker 1: now very public private life. To doctor Jorry cross In,
21:18
Speaker 1: psychologists faculty Saint Leo University and author of Operation SS
21:24
Speaker 1: Practical Recommendations to help Stop Officers suicide, Doctor Jory, I mean,
21:31
Speaker 1: I'm certainly no biblical scholar, but it's my understanding that
21:37
Speaker 1: one of the things that Christ detested or decried the most,
21:44
Speaker 1: or hypocrites, they're the worst. Right. I mean, a center
21:48
Speaker 1: is a center, but a hypocrite as a center and
21:52
Speaker 1: a faker to boot do. You have to look at
21:55
Speaker 1: the dynamic psychologically involved with sex offender. Pedophiles expect this
22:01
Speaker 1: the anonymity that is provided through the Internet where they
22:05
Speaker 1: can get on you know, and just like with that
22:09
Speaker 1: one chat room that they were talking about the money
22:11
Speaker 1: he was spending monthly on that. The other thing is
22:15
Speaker 1: the fantasy. You know, this is a fantasy world. And
22:19
Speaker 1: as an investigator, and when I evaluated and treated sex offenders,
22:24
Speaker 1: you always have to get into that fantasy world. And
22:29
Speaker 1: that's something that is very well hidden and it takes
22:32
Speaker 1: a lot of time, and that's part of the treatment.
22:34
Speaker 1: And when you see the low success rate I just
22:38
Speaker 1: checked in, it ranges anywhere between maybe a high of
22:42
Speaker 1: ten percent to thirty percent of successful treatment for pedophilia.
22:48
Speaker 1: And if you look today, you know they're now looking
22:51
Speaker 1: to make pedophilia a sexual orientation. I don't know who
22:56
Speaker 1: they as, but it's over my cold dead body clutching
23:00
Speaker 1: their throats. That's not gonna happen if I have anything
23:04
Speaker 1: to do with it. But I was talking to you
23:07
Speaker 1: about hypocrisy, I mean Troy Slayton hypocrite. Yeah, I mean
23:13
Speaker 1: that's just like chum to the sharks, hypocrite juries hate hypocrits,
23:19
Speaker 1: they certainly do. But the charges here and charges with
23:25
Speaker 1: any sex offender, whether it be actual hands on molestation
23:31
Speaker 1: or the allegation here, which is receiving and possessing child
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Speaker 1: pornography from the Internet, it is nuanced in that there's
23:42
Speaker 1: a difference between somebody who is prepubescent and postpubescent. The
23:50
Speaker 1: law does make a difference whether somebody is over the
23:53
Speaker 1: age of twelve or under the age of twelve, and
23:56
Speaker 1: in the case here for Josh Dugger, his allegation is
24:01
Speaker 1: that this was child pornography under the age of twelve.
24:05
Speaker 1: That gives me something else to think about. Thanks Joy Slayton,
24:09
Speaker 1: guys speaking about the whole layer of hypocrisy. Take a
24:13
Speaker 1: listen to our cut ten. These are our friends at
24:17
Speaker 1: Inside Edition. Listen. The Duggers belong to a Christian sect
24:22
Speaker 1: known as Quiverful, which believes families should have as many
24:26
Speaker 1: children as possible. Vicky Garrison used to be in Quiverful,
24:29
Speaker 1: but left in two thousand and eight. She says she's
24:33
Speaker 1: not surprised by claims that the Duggers initially sought help
24:36
Speaker 1: with Josh's issues from church members, law enforcement does not
24:41
Speaker 1: quite get on their radar because they're talking about this
24:43
Speaker 1: is a spiritual issue, this is a character issue, and
24:46
Speaker 1: so what they're going to do is they're going to
24:48
Speaker 1: look at you know. What do they need to do
24:51
Speaker 1: is get their hearts right with God's in Touch magazine
24:54
Speaker 1: is reporting that one of Josh Dugger's victims may have
24:57
Speaker 1: been five years old. Bottom lying to you, Alexis Uresz Chuck.
25:04
Speaker 1: The parents sent Josh Dugger, who I think at that
25:07
Speaker 1: time was fourteen or fifteen, to a Christian rehab for
25:12
Speaker 1: about three months. He then got a quote stern talking
25:16
Speaker 1: to buy an Arkansas State trooper and that was it.
25:21
Speaker 1: Now the Statute of Limitations has passed, right, well, so
25:27
Speaker 1: they Michelle Jimbob said that they had the Arkansas State
25:32
Speaker 1: trooper give a stern talking to you to Josh Dugger
25:34
Speaker 1: about everything that happened. The troopers said, he was not
25:38
Speaker 1: told all of the details about what happened at all.
25:41
Speaker 1: He was only told about one incident within the family.
25:43
Speaker 1: He didn't know about the babysitter. He didn't know about
25:46
Speaker 1: the other four sisters that were molested. He said, if
25:49
Speaker 1: he had known that, he would have handled it very,
25:51
Speaker 1: very differently. I get the police officer. Obviously this is
25:55
Speaker 1: a crime, especially if it's somebody I don't want to
25:58
Speaker 1: say that this is a crime, and the officer would
26:00
Speaker 1: have to take action. He was also a mandatory reporter.
26:03
Speaker 1: He would have to call child burness to services. He
26:05
Speaker 1: said he wasn't told about any of that. Well, if
26:08
Speaker 1: he was even told about one of the incidents, all
26:11
Speaker 1: those triggers should have been immediately acted upon. To Glenn Pounder,
26:20
Speaker 1: there you see the original five victims. Nothing was done.
26:25
Speaker 1: And I have found again anecdotal that with adult victims
26:29
Speaker 1: of child molestation and actual children I've worked with, one
26:34
Speaker 1: of the worst things they feel is helplessness. There's nothing
26:39
Speaker 1: they can do to get away from the purp here.
26:43
Speaker 1: They go to their parents and the parents do not
26:46
Speaker 1: report him, and he is not prosecuted, and the molestations
26:51
Speaker 1: apparently go on. That feeling of helplessness will stick with
26:56
Speaker 1: that child the rest of their life. Yeah. Absolutely, that revictimization,
27:01
Speaker 1: those memories that will affect a child for the rest
27:04
Speaker 1: of its life. And you know we talk about these
27:08
Speaker 1: things is this they're all separate. So for example, you
27:10
Speaker 1: know the number of people in the US who lose
27:13
Speaker 1: their lives to terrible drug addictions. Well, some of those
27:16
Speaker 1: people suffered familial and other types of child sexual abuse
27:21
Speaker 1: when they were children. Like this ripples across the hybe,
27:24
Speaker 1: and it ripples through that child's life forever, forever. Crime
27:39
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace, one of the stars TLC's nineteen
27:45
Speaker 1: Kids and Counting, just arrested for child porn two counts
27:51
Speaker 1: receiving and possessing child porn. And this results from a
27:56
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen raid on Josh Dugger's used Carla. Now we've
28:03
Speaker 1: heard about the molestation of five little girls when he
28:09
Speaker 1: was about fourteen, no charges. We've heard about later on
28:15
Speaker 1: the Ashley Madison hacking, and it was revealed he'd been
28:20
Speaker 1: paying thousands of dollars for sex during his marriage while
28:25
Speaker 1: his wife pregnant. How did that work out? Take a
28:29
Speaker 1: listen to our cut fifteen. This is our friend Gigi
28:33
Speaker 1: Chang ABC. Josh Dougger's wife, Anna is standing by him.
28:38
Speaker 1: According to family sources, Anna will not leave him and
28:42
Speaker 1: get this. She blames herself in part for Josh having
28:45
Speaker 1: an account on the notorious Ashley Madison cheating website. Loving
28:50
Speaker 1: to cherish, forsaking all others. Josh and Anna got married
28:53
Speaker 1: seven years ago, a spectacle covered on nineteen Kids in
28:57
Speaker 1: Counting Things Me seem listen to Josh pledge his fidelity
29:03
Speaker 1: in song. Yes, those words are sure ringing hollow. Today,
29:13
Speaker 1: even Josh is calling himself the biggest hypocrite ever. We're
29:17
Speaker 1: also learning that he had two Ashley Madison accounts. One
29:20
Speaker 1: account was active as recently as May seventeenth, at the time,
29:25
Speaker 1: Anna was pregnant with their daughter, Meredith. When he registered
29:28
Speaker 1: with Ashley Madison, he listed his ideal woman as a
29:32
Speaker 1: girl next store with an aggressive take charge nature, natural breasts,
29:37
Speaker 1: and a high sex drive. I really don't know what
29:41
Speaker 1: to say that, but I can say unequivocally that that
29:44
Speaker 1: was not Jiuji Chang at ABC. Okay, I think it
29:47
Speaker 1: may have been our friends at ABC, but that's not Jiji.
29:52
Speaker 1: Let me go back to you know, I keep going
29:54
Speaker 1: back to our shrink on this. But what I don't
29:57
Speaker 1: get is the wife standing by him, Doctor Crossen. I mean,
30:03
Speaker 1: that's really a typical victim mentality. I mean, you can
30:07
Speaker 1: see how she's just been basically programmed into that. It's
30:11
Speaker 1: just like the children. They take it upon themselves that
30:15
Speaker 1: you know they're responsible for and she's following that behavior pattern.
30:20
Speaker 1: I mean, it's bad to say, but that you know
30:23
Speaker 1: that we see that so much with victims, children and
30:27
Speaker 1: female victims, and of course Troy Slayton. Not that I
30:30
Speaker 1: think that she ever would, but typically what is said
30:35
Speaker 1: or communicated, not necessarily verbally between a husband and wife.
30:39
Speaker 1: For instance, a husband's charge the what he invokes the privilege,
30:44
Speaker 1: so his wife cannot testify against him unless it is
30:49
Speaker 1: a case of child abuse or domestic battery. So those
30:54
Speaker 1: are two exceptions to the husband wife spousal privilege. So
31:00
Speaker 1: she could, the wife who was standing by him, could
31:05
Speaker 1: testify against him under these circumstances. That's true, but she
31:08
Speaker 1: can't be compelled to. She won't be jailed for contempt
31:14
Speaker 1: of court for refusing to testify. It will be her choice,
31:19
Speaker 1: you know. To you Former Chief Foreign Police Chief Chris Buyers, Chris,
31:26
Speaker 1: I've thought by over all the cases I investigated and
31:29
Speaker 1: prosecuted and covered, and rarely, if ever, can I remember
31:36
Speaker 1: a mother, a wife going against the husband, boyfriend, lover,
31:41
Speaker 1: live in who had molested the children. They always stick
31:46
Speaker 1: by the husband. Have you noticed that? Absolutely? Every time? Again,
31:51
Speaker 1: as I was thinking through all the cases that I
31:52
Speaker 1: dealt with, the wife stood right there, stood by him,
31:58
Speaker 1: would not turn on him. I don't know if it's
32:00
Speaker 1: the embarrassment of the whole ordeal or what, but yes,
32:04
Speaker 1: that has happened. Well you know what, Chris same here,
32:07
Speaker 1: and I mean bad, bad molestation on a little girl's
32:12
Speaker 1: boys as young as three years old. The wife would just,
32:15
Speaker 1: I guess, rationalize and stay in the marriage, whether it
32:20
Speaker 1: was the money or whether she had been conditioned like
32:24
Speaker 1: you heard, I think it was doctor joy Cross and
32:27
Speaker 1: saying to Glenn Pounder or chief operating Officer Child Rescue Coalition,
32:31
Speaker 1: have you found the same Yeah? Again, unfortunately over multiple
32:37
Speaker 1: cases of the maneos. That's that's something that I've seen
32:40
Speaker 1: in my law enforcement career as well. Yeah, so this
32:43
Speaker 1: is going back to when he's thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, all
32:48
Speaker 1: the way up to the Ashley Madison debacle. Now they're
32:52
Speaker 1: about to have child number seven. They just have a
32:57
Speaker 1: gender reveal. It's a daughter and these charges land Take
33:04
Speaker 1: a listen our cut twenty two. Our friends at et Dugger,
33:08
Speaker 1: who wore a gray prison uniform during the hearing, will
33:11
Speaker 1: remain in custody until May fifth, when a detention hearing
33:14
Speaker 1: to seek bond will be held. A pre trial hearing
33:18
Speaker 1: is set for July first, and the trial is scheduled
33:20
Speaker 1: to begin on July sixth. This is Dougger's mug shot
33:24
Speaker 1: taken on Thursday. The father of six was arrested in
33:28
Speaker 1: Washington County, Arkansas. Later that day, Josh's sister Jill and
33:33
Speaker 1: her husband Derek Dillard, exclusively told ET quote, we just
33:37
Speaker 1: learned this information. It is very sad. On Friday, Josh's parents, Jim,
33:42
Speaker 1: Bob and Michelle released a statement on their family's website, quote,
33:47
Speaker 1: we appreciate your continued prayers for our family at this time.
33:51
Speaker 1: The accusations brought against Joshua today are very serious. It
33:55
Speaker 1: is our prayer that the truth, no matter what it is,
33:58
Speaker 1: will come to light and that this will all be
34:01
Speaker 1: resolved in a timely manner. We love josh and Anna
34:04
Speaker 1: and continue to pray for their family. Less trust Chuck
34:08
Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. Where does the case
34:11
Speaker 1: stand right now? I'm imagining any good prosecutor or lawyer
34:15
Speaker 1: not only builds their own case, but they anticipate what
34:17
Speaker 1: the other side is going to say. The only defense
34:20
Speaker 1: I could think of, is I didn't download it, somebody
34:24
Speaker 1: else did, it's not my computer. Or entrapment by the fence.
34:31
Speaker 1: There's only three defenses I can come up with. But
34:34
Speaker 1: what's the latest in the case right now. Well, the
34:37
Speaker 1: judge just a few days ago had set some parameters
34:41
Speaker 1: for if Josh is given bail, and he's released on bail,
34:46
Speaker 1: he is not allowed to live in a home with
34:49
Speaker 1: any minor children, which means he can't live at his
34:52
Speaker 1: own home since he has six one on the way.
34:54
Speaker 1: He can't live with his parents because they still have
34:57
Speaker 1: about ten or so kids still at home home, can't
35:00
Speaker 1: live with any of his married siblings because they all
35:03
Speaker 1: have children. So he have to find somewhere to live
35:06
Speaker 1: that is not where there's not a minor child anywhere,
35:09
Speaker 1: you know. To TROYE. Layton, high profile trial lawyer out
35:14
Speaker 1: of LA When you think about what we were talking
35:17
Speaker 1: about earlier, the wife standing by the husband in this case,
35:22
Speaker 1: what about the threat he poses to those children. They're
35:28
Speaker 1: soon to have seven children, and we know pedophiles, they
35:33
Speaker 1: can't help it. They are going to pray on children. Period. Well,
35:39
Speaker 1: that's why there's all sorts of risk assessments and mitigations
35:43
Speaker 1: that could be placed the judge here, as Alexis trust
35:47
Speaker 1: Check mentioned the federal judge Wiedmann in Arkansas stated that
35:52
Speaker 1: there would be certain bond conditions, namely that he can't
35:57
Speaker 1: be around minor children that would violate his bond and
36:00
Speaker 1: force him to be put right back in custody, and
36:03
Speaker 1: also that he has to pay for a third party custodian.
36:08
Speaker 1: That means basically a monitor that he would have to
36:11
Speaker 1: pay for to make sure that he's not using the internet,
36:14
Speaker 1: not being around children. Good lord, that's a lot of time, energy,
36:19
Speaker 1: and money. Why don't we just put him in jail
36:20
Speaker 1: and leave him? How that sound? Because everybody is entitled
36:24
Speaker 1: to bail. Everyone is entitled to bail. This is not
36:27
Speaker 1: a capital offense, and he has not been convicted of
36:30
Speaker 1: the crime. He may have been accused of child molestation
36:35
Speaker 1: in the past, never convicted. He may be a cheater
36:39
Speaker 1: beingon on Ashley Madison. That doesn't make him a criminal.
36:42
Speaker 1: That's not a criminal act. So he's presumed not guilty
36:47
Speaker 1: until proven guilty in a court of law. Okay, you
36:50
Speaker 1: know what, Troy. I think Sometimes when you don't know
36:52
Speaker 1: what to say, you drag out the presumption of innocence
36:56
Speaker 1: and dust off the moth balls and start talking about that.
36:59
Speaker 1: I are you, but all the monitoring and the watching,
37:02
Speaker 1: and the money and the effort, and the und sleep
37:06
Speaker 1: in jail. I think a lot of people might agree. Earlier,
37:09
Speaker 1: you were hearing our friend less trend and inside edition
37:11
Speaker 1: we wait as justice unfolds. God willing Nancy Grace crime story,
37:18
Speaker 1: signing off, goodbye friend,