Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #269 - For Azeroth!: “A Very Common Legendary”

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#269 - For Azeroth!: “A Very Common Legendary” · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

0:00
Fear Laugh. The Legendary Axe has had its
0:02
buff rate increase by quite a significant amount.
0:06
Is it too much? Is this even a legendary
0:08
anymore? Lex and I discussed the
0:10
evolution of follower dungeons and where we hope to see it go
0:13
in the future, and we review the biggest wave yet of hero
0:17
talents. All this and more on today's
0:19
episode of For Azeroth for. Calendar.
0:23
For the burning region. For Gilnius has not died.
0:30
For the Lich King. For the Sindorai.
0:34
For the Alliance. For the Horn.
0:38
For Azeroth, Hello, and welcome back to another episode of For
0:46
Azeroth. I am one of your hosts, the true
0:48
Villamani, and joining me as always.
0:51
Can I start saying always now what?
0:53
We'll just start it. Oh yes, eternity joining you for
0:57
eternity never ending. Did cannot care with.
0:59
Me we have. A contract.
1:02
Joining me for all eternity is Lex, Rance, Lex.
1:05
How is the World of Warcraft been treating you?
1:08
The World of Warcraft has been treating me very well.
1:11
I have been trying to figure out for a while what I kind of want
1:14
to do on our off season or on my off seasons.
1:16
I should say because I'm very much a a Raider but like an AOTC
1:20
Raider. And so I've tried to do like,
1:22
Mythic Plus and stuff like that. And I finally decided to jump
1:27
back into role play, which has been very fun.
1:31
By which I mean I will walk around the world alone with
1:35
nobody else around and just, like, write little like a little
1:38
journal as if I was actually walking around and not talk to
1:41
anyone. Which is how role play is
1:42
supposed to be, Utterly solo. No friends, nothing.
1:47
But I'm having a good. Time.
1:48
The journal seems kind of cool, like the like the memoirs of the
1:54
Wandering Priest sort of thing. I love that, exactly.
1:58
I part of it is, I think I was saying this in our little, like,
2:03
getting to know me episode when I started playing World of
2:06
Warcraft. I was a kid and I would do this
2:09
sort of thing a lot where I'd basically write stories for
2:11
myself in my own head. And so one thing I kind of
2:15
wanted was to try to bring myself back to that magic of
2:19
like exploring this world and everything is so special.
2:23
And there's also, and one thing I've already noticed, even just
2:25
going to a couple places, like there's so many little details I
2:27
just don't even think about. Like just, you know, the
2:31
different animals that are in different places.
2:33
And you know, I I walked around Don Morrow and there's the
2:36
little ship, the boats that don't make sense because they're
2:40
on, like utterly iced over rivers and things like that.
2:44
But it was fun to just kind of walk around and think about the
2:48
world differently and and focus on those little details that
2:51
usually are kind of just like moving on like yes, this is,
2:56
this is the zone that I'm quickly running through to get
2:58
somewhere else. So yeah, I, you know one day
3:02
might get back into posting things online.
3:04
I used to have a Tumblr back when Tumblr was around, but for
3:08
now I I'm just enjoying kind of getting myself back into that
3:12
and re exploring world of Worm Rest Accord specifically in
3:17
through role play. So if you see me just walking
3:19
around like, you're welcome to talk to me.
3:23
I'm not going entirely crazy. I like, I really want to see
3:27
these journals like that. Would be kind of cool to see
3:29
that and like the random things you come across you like do
3:32
quests when you're doing this like, you know, sort of like oh,
3:34
here's a little side quest and then like put that into your
3:36
into your journey. It's like, oh, you happened to
3:38
cross across some Tuscar today and this little kid needed
3:41
needed some help and that's why I did this or whatever.
3:43
Like, is that how this goes like?
3:45
So I should quickly clarify that I have been to one zone and one
3:48
event. So it's not like I have an
3:50
extensive journal yet. I'm really talking about this
3:52
like this is an established project when it's been like 2
3:54
days. But yeah, so the other thing is
3:57
that there are like I I played through Wrath back when I was a
4:04
child and then I took a very long break until Legion.
4:08
So I really don't have a great sense of what happened in those
4:12
expansions in the middle other than like the novels that I'm
4:15
reading and Chronicles. So I do kind of I I don't know
4:19
if I want to roll another character and play those quests,
4:22
or maybe just go through the quests on my high level
4:24
character and just face roll them.
4:26
But that's actually a really good idea, that that's also a
4:28
way that I could bring the thing that I've been sort of sad about
4:30
not getting to experience into my silly little journaling.
4:36
But yeah, currently it has been just me.
4:43
Well, basically writing what I see and like imagining some
4:46
small interactions with like NPCS and stuff, but mostly just
4:50
like, oh, like, here's what my character would think about,
4:54
Like here's what she would notice going over here, and
4:56
here's what she'd notice going over here.
4:59
But yes, it's been it's been a fun time going back into my
5:02
little nerd world. That is, that is so fascinating.
5:05
It's completely unlike anything I've ever thought of playing.
5:08
But see, like would just be kind of cool to read about.
5:10
OK that is that is cool. I I think that like generally it
5:16
is that period of time where guilds are sort of slowing down.
5:19
I know your Guild is going on a bit of a hiatus from raiding
5:23
soon. My Guild is pushing through
5:25
Mythic. We've now got 4 bosses down, but
5:29
we have a time limit too. Like we do want to take a break
5:31
as well. We're not one of those teams
5:33
that's going to try and get cutting edge or even just like
5:37
defeat the the raids at Mythic at all.
5:39
We're just we get part way through the the raids.
5:42
This has been the best progress that the team has done.
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I think this expansion for sure. If not since I've joined them.
5:51
We're like 20th on the on the server which is, which is really
5:56
cool and now with like 4 bosses down, that means we've got like
6:03
2 slots that I'll get in the vault.
6:05
Hopefully by the time people are listening this, I will have a
6:08
mythic tips 'cause it just it doesn't drop.
6:11
Guys, the first time we saw a Mythic Pip, Sorry, no.
6:15
The first time we saw any Pip drop from the boss was on
6:18
Heroic. Last night, after clearing
6:20
third, how many times on Normal, how many times on Heroic?
6:22
And now finally getting down the council on on Mythic, we we're
6:26
like, Jesus, they didn't drop pips.
6:28
All right, let's go back, Let's beat them up on Heroic.
6:31
And then he dropped Pips and I did not get it.
6:33
My role was like 30 something. It was bad guys.
6:35
I was not going to get it. So all the pips we've been
6:38
getting is from like the vault or people doing their like
6:41
weekly and getting out of that like weekly prize.
6:45
Manny, do you want me to ruin? Your day.
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You have Pips too. Of course I'm pips.
6:53
I need to go find a new Co host. This is getting ridiculous.
6:56
Last last week it was like, Oh yeah, like we won attempt and
6:59
got the, like, super rare manuscript.
7:02
This week it's like, yeah, I got pips.
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You've only ever seen it drop once.
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But I know what you're talking about.
7:08
That that paperweight. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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The the real issue that Arguild is running into is that we have
7:14
like two people who really need Pips.
7:17
Everyone in the Guild has gotten an except for for that.
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Like every single week. It's like all of the people.
7:22
Like, yeah, I got it in my vault.
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I don't use Pips, but it's fun to have.
7:26
I guess, like, maybe I'll just throw it away, OK, but I
7:32
haven't. So, all right, all right.
7:34
You know what? This, this, this might be one of
7:36
those role play things. Maybe I should change my name
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away from true villain Manny. Maybe then Pip will be my
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friend. Give me that little badge and
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I'll be happy. You know what I was going to
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say? That's so too many because pip
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notoriously had never. Exactly.
7:55
You know what I was going to say?
7:57
Our top the our top story, the first story that we have is
8:00
about the legendary. And last week, Kyvex went on to
8:05
the forums and announced that retroactively, they were
8:09
changing the bad luck protection.
8:11
So everybody who's gotten those embers, whether they're lesser
8:14
embers or the big embers or stuff, those now add a huge
8:19
amount of bad luck protection, increasing your odds of getting
8:23
the axe to drop. And while the official post
8:27
didn't say how much that was increasing, Wowhead did some
8:32
comparative like forensic data mining, seeing what values have
8:36
changed because they they don't actually say which one affects
8:39
the odds. But when they made that hot fix,
8:42
they're able to go back against like the last build versus
8:44
what's live and say, oh, those are the things that change.
8:48
That's the that, like Document X now says like 16% instead of
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like 1.6%. And so if the data mining that
8:58
Wowhead did, and that was like Squishy and his team of data
9:01
miners over on Wowhead, if that's to be believed, you need
9:06
to do roughly 16 attempts at sorry rather at heroic before
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you are guaranteed to like get it.
9:16
You have like a significantly better chance the more mythic
9:19
kills you get. Lesser chance on normal and then
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like a incredibly small chance on LFRLFR is not, is not going
9:28
to give you much and by way of bad luck protection.
9:32
And so the comment I was going to make is that, my goodness, it
9:36
feels like Pips is more rare than the legendary.
9:40
But apparently that's just me. That's just anecdotally, Pips
9:43
doesn't like me or my guilt, apparently.
9:47
Oh, are you bullying him? Are you mean to him, Annie?
9:49
I'm not mean to him. What are you saying to my bull?
9:52
Yeah, you. I mean, clearly he doesn't want
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to be best friends with you. Like, do you have a bunch of
10:01
people who have this legendary or are chasing this legendary on
10:04
your team Lex? So we have a couple people.
10:08
We have not yet hit our 15th heroic kill, so we haven't been
10:12
able to kind of jump to the like everyone is getting it.
10:16
Like I'm sure you guys have all seen those screenshots of like
10:19
basically the entire Guild getting the legendary all in
10:29
Especially after this news came out that it's no longer just
10:32
like, oh, it might drop, but every single time you're rolling
10:36
the dice brand new to like. If you grind enough, you will
10:40
get it. Like that is guaranteed.
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At the end of the day, everyone is gonna have it.
10:45
I know some people were very sad.
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One thing that people did learn was how little LFR Normal was
10:50
helping them. I know that a lot of people were
10:51
grinding every week. LFR and Normal and alas, learned
10:55
that they were wasting their time.
10:56
Well, not totally wasting their time, but.
10:59
I will say just as a PSA for anybody out there, the chances
11:03
are cumulative based on your highest completed.
11:06
So if you get your frac kills and you clear through normal,
11:10
there's zero reason for you to do LFR both before and after
11:14
this change. Your IT will boost whatever
11:16
bosses you killed on LFR up to your normal chance, but doing
11:20
normal and then doing LFR doesn't give you any extra
11:22
chance. Yeah, I think that might have
11:24
been. What people were especially
11:25
disappointed in was that they were like just essentially
11:28
wasting time by running extra times, which I think is kind of
11:31
sad. I do personally think that if
11:34
you are running a normal and a heroic and an LFR every single
11:38
week, if we're going to like you know, if if it's just going to
11:41
be a random roll the dice, that's one thing.
11:43
I would argue that if we are saying the harder you work, you
11:46
should eventually guaranteed get this drop.
11:48
Like that is working harder, right?
11:50
Like than the one person who's doing 1 heroic run a week and
11:53
then bouncing. But I can understand AI think
11:58
that the the team does seem to kind of want to not encourage
12:02
like hyper grinding is what I've noticed in the last few
12:05
expansions. That they're not making it so
12:08
that people feel like they need to go up every single waking
12:10
hour to get things in the World of Warcraft.
12:13
And also that, you know if it's the 15th kill of rack, you're
12:17
definitely going to get the weapon for example.
12:19
Like that's like, oh God, I can't do math. 15 to 5:00,
12:24
that's five weeks, which is is much shorter than 15 weeks of
12:29
count. I think like generally, like you
12:32
said, yeah they're just trying to stop people from going on
12:34
these like ridiculous grinds. It would it would suck if it was
12:38
like, oh, the reason that this guy got in you didn't is because
12:42
he killed it like 4 * a week for the last five weeks.
12:46
That would that would be like I don't want to know life it like
12:50
that. And so the fact that it's like,
12:51
hey, if you can kill on Mythic, you don't need to now go and do
12:55
it on Heroic and then go back and do it on Normal and then go
12:58
back and do it on LFR, that to me would be the exactly the kind
13:04
of behavior that they wanted to stomp out.
13:07
So I'm glad that they're not doing that.
13:09
The thing about it is that like, because it's now this kind of
13:13
guaranteed kind of determinism, it's like, OK, we've killed it.
13:17
Like we said five times on heroic and before that I killed
13:23
it on like 6 times on normal. So doing this math here means
13:27
that my bad luck means that I only need to kill it like four
13:30
more times and then I'm guaranteed it like that, that
13:34
that doesn't feel like a special moment.
13:37
It feels like when you, if you get to that because like you
13:40
could technically get the, the dice could roll and you could
13:44
technically go above that. But to me, like when you hit
13:48
that last week where you got the guarantee drop, you don't feel
13:51
like, yeah, yeah, you're gone and you're like, OK, finally,
13:55
finally. And then like now are they going
13:59
to have to like balance all of the classes around it where it's
14:01
like throwing people who don't have it, You're now 2% less
14:04
effective because we now expect you to have this thing to
14:07
balance, to balance you out. Like what's what's your favorite
14:11
legendary? How do you think Legendary
14:12
should be? I think this is going to be a
14:15
rare moment that I'm going to make all of the try hards like
14:18
me on for Azeroth. I think that World of Warcraft
14:22
has recently been pushing very hard to kind of make everything
14:28
possible right for a very long time.
14:31
There were like so many things in this game that it's like if
14:34
you see somebody with it, you are like Oh my God, you are a a
14:38
monster. And I cannot believe you must
14:40
have ground for hours and hours and hours to get that drop.
14:44
And the fact that you have it is really, really incredible.
14:47
And I'm slowly seeing more and more of those go away, which I
14:51
don't think it is like inherently bad, right.
14:55
I think that it is OK for a game to make the decision that
14:58
everything is achievable and like grinding to the the Super
15:03
level that people were in the past, not something they won't
15:06
urge. But it does mean that those
15:08
drops are just inherently going to get less exciting.
15:10
You know there there's going to be fewer things that they drop
15:12
and you're like sobbing on stream because you can't believe
15:15
that you finally got this thing you've been working for for the
15:18
last 10 years. And again, I think that if
15:20
that's in the Blizzard doesn't want, then that's OK Like
15:23
there's there's give and take and there's reasons for both
15:25
sides. But I can also see why for a lot
15:28
of that's feeling a little bit like, oh, losing this joyful man
15:33
And then really what wanted like one thing about how it takes
15:36
forever to drop the like X whatever the heartbreaker.
15:41
But we didn't really mean that you should start dropping it
15:44
like every 10 kills. So I I can see the frustration,
15:49
although I I can also understand Blizzard's side with.
15:51
That, yeah. No, I I I agree with you there.
15:55
No notes. I'm going to let that stand
15:57
because that's basically where where I'm at.
15:58
I think both of them can exist. I think there should be stuff
16:01
that like, hey, people can work towards and you get that and
16:03
it's great, right? And I think there should be
16:05
stuff that's like, whoa, that is a mountain to climb.
16:10
And my goodness, you did climb that mountain.
16:12
So it like, I think, I think both of them should exist.
16:15
I think Blizzard needs to make sure that there is a balance.
16:17
I don't think that we should be getting stuff at the rate of
16:21
like the Heartbreaker every every expansion.
16:25
And I don't think there should be stuff at the rate of like the
16:30
the legendary every tear. But I think that every so often
16:38
something should, should come up where it's like, oh wow, this is
16:41
rare. And the few people who get it,
16:43
like they they have been extra dedicated or extra lucky and
16:49
like, whoa, this is transformative.
16:51
And like you see somebody in your mythic plus with that and
16:53
you're like, oh man, you've got that instead of like, what do
16:56
you mean this paladin doesn't have it?
16:58
Like, I'm going to just wait 5 minutes for the next paladin who
17:00
does have it, and then like like then you don't feel like, then
17:05
it feels like you're punished for not having it.
17:07
And I think it's become common enough that anybody who doesn't
17:10
have it right now feels punished that they don't have it.
17:13
And that's too common in my opinion.
17:16
No, I agree entirely. Another thing that we were
17:19
talking about before the show started off was actually the
17:23
follower dungeons. Both Flex and I have not touched
17:28
the follower dungeons ourselves. Like I generally, I think it's
17:33
just because you and I don't really play with a lot of alts,
17:36
right? Well, so yes, I am interested in
17:43
follower dungeons because I am scared to do especially dungeons
17:49
with people that I don't know. So like if my Guild is running
17:52
dungeons, great, but if I don't catch them online pushing harder
17:55
as we do, like that would be. I mean do things like for
17:58
dungeons, but I haven't really been like pushing anything as I
18:07
in in my sort of break time between this tier and next tier.
18:13
So I haven't had much of a reason to dug the follower
18:16
dungeons there. For me, like, it's like what
18:18
would I use them for if I wanted to level up a character or train
18:25
on like a alt on like, oh how do I do this rotation.
18:29
I guess follower dungeons would be great for that and so that's
18:33
that's great. But I'm like firmly in the end
18:36
game with my characters now. Like my, I've got a bunch of
18:40
70s. I don't care to do through
18:44
anything outside of, like my Warlock.
18:47
I actually like run through LFR and I do heroics and I do time
18:50
walking with the warlock because I'm just having a lot of fun
18:54
with that Warlock. And there's a chance in the war
18:57
Within that I I might go warlock guys.
19:02
Manny's war with picking a character.
19:06
The war within is staying true to the shaman or succumbing to
19:11
the fell. That's that's what this is it.
19:16
It means that I don't have a reason to go into follower
19:19
dungeons and for me and so these changes that have come from
19:24
follower dungeons seem great. If I was working on alt and if
19:28
it come earlier in the expansion, I totally would have
19:32
used this. But they've now changed the
19:34
amount of follower dungeons you can do.
19:36
Used to be 10 that you could do every day 24 hour period.
19:41
Now you can do up to 50 in a 24 hour period and it used to be
19:47
that each follower non player that you had in the party
19:52
reduced your experience by a percentage.
19:54
I think originally it was something close to 20%, so like
19:58
if you were in there with like 4 followers, you'd only get like
20:00
20% experience, but. They've reduced that to five and
20:05
now they've removed it entirely. So you get full experience
20:08
regardless of how many followers are in the dungeon now.
20:11
So it's now pretty great for levelling.
20:14
If you are somebody who doesn't want to jump into the dungeon
20:19
with like a bunch of different people, you can now do followers
20:25
to like, get that experience to like, learn a little bit of the
20:29
dungeon. But here's the thing people keep
20:33
saying like, oh, follower dungeons are like a great way of
20:36
learning the dungeon with a without, like the judgement that
20:42
you would get if you did a group thing.
20:44
And to a point, they're correct, but I don't think it gives you
20:48
the full thing because follower dungeons, they're not going to
20:51
teach you skips. They're not going to teach you
20:53
like the pathing that people prefer to do.
20:58
Even in like, you know back in Wrath of the Lich King, which I
21:03
think had the easiest dungeons of like any expansion since or
21:10
before. Like you would just need you
21:14
would go with a group they would like pull everything to AOE, but
21:18
there would be a particular path that they would take with
21:21
follower dungeons. The AI path like the like if you
21:25
could if you choose to let the AI lead you or if you lead
21:28
yourself, you're not actually learning what other players are
21:30
doing. So, like, how do you graduate
21:32
from follower dungeons? Yeah, I cut it worth to do.
21:36
I got this thought when I was listening to the Wow Nightcap
21:39
episode with Shanty. I believe one thing that they
21:43
were talking about was that Follower Dungeons is an idea
21:46
that we've seen primarily through Final Fantasy 14.
21:50
That's the thing that they have is like you can choose to go
21:52
with your friends and or like with your NPCS and set up with
21:55
the team. But Final Fantasy 14 dungeons
21:59
are much more scripted. Like they are very like you, you
22:04
clear everything, There's no skipping anything.
22:07
You go stand over here and then like you do the the mechanics
22:10
all go in order and they're all like you move here and then you
22:12
move here and then you move here and then you do this and then
22:15
then this comes out and then you do this and then you fight
22:17
these. So it's it's very, very
22:18
straightforward and it's really, really easy to code that into a
22:23
game AI. And whereas World of Warcraft is
22:25
much less of that, there's more of an ability like it's much
22:30
more like, oh like what are you skipping?
22:31
And mechanics are a lot, often a lot more random and so, you
22:36
know, coming at different times or or with different things
22:39
going before or after. So that makes it much harder to
22:44
make a really good follower dungeon because there there's so
22:50
much more that's either up to chance or that like, you know,
22:53
humans might choose something differently or might go through
22:56
different mobs and and things like that.
23:00
So I certainly hope that World of Warcraft doesn't choose to
23:02
respond by making dungeons easier to code followers with.
23:07
I think the one thing that makes World of Warcraft exciting is
23:10
it's a little bit less just kind of a straightforward do all of
23:16
these things in this order, follow these mechanics and
23:19
you're good to go. But I I think that that is one
23:22
reason why the follower dungeons potentially are seeming a little
23:25
bit less perfect in World of Warcraft.
23:31
Yeah, I would agree with you. VTech in chat says that they
23:36
find follower Dungeons is good to learn the boss mechanics and
23:40
then go into mythic. They also tried with multiple
23:43
tanks to learn the rotation. And I think the second part of
23:46
that, like learning how to deal with like the bosses and learn
23:50
like a tank or healer or whatever role is definitely
23:55
there. I just think that like again,
23:57
like you're going from the follower dungeons and then I
24:01
guess you would jump into like maybe heroic before mythic just
24:03
because they do add mechanics and then do add mechanics on top
24:06
of that. But like that routing, you are
24:09
right, is something that is developed by like the meta.
24:14
And like, people try and do skips and people are like, well,
24:17
especially when you go into keystones and stuff, there are
24:19
times where people will be like, OK, let's do potions here, let's
24:24
TC this and like hug the side here and that stuff that you're
24:28
not going to learn outside of actually diving into into the
24:34
groups. I do like Final Fantasy scripted
24:37
dungeons in that they can create this more cinematic sort of feel
24:41
where it's like we go through here and then like, oh, the boss
24:44
is coming in from this side. And that doesn't happen so much
24:47
with World of Warcraft. World of Warcraft is very much
24:49
like they're standing there and you walk towards it and then you
24:52
fight. I think Final Fantasy is at core
24:55
a game that was like an MMO that was developed by a group that
25:01
was used to writing single player games.
25:03
And World of Warcraft is an MMO that was built from the ground
25:05
up and you can see that in so many different places, even just
25:09
in the number of times that Final Fantasy forces you to be
25:11
alone. Final Fantasy is is developed
25:15
with sort of that mindset of we're giving you this epic story
25:18
and I guess you can play with your friends too, which isn't
25:20
totally fair, it's it's the the differences between Final
25:23
Fantasy and World of Warcraft are are frankly relatively
25:25
minimal. They're clearly working off of
25:27
each other, but that sort of cinematic feel in the dungeons,
25:32
I completely agree is something that to me is very reflective of
25:35
the fact that these are people who like the the developers of
25:39
Final Fantasy 14, started out developing the other Final
25:43
Fantasy games and writing single player games where the boss
25:46
battles are these big cinematic things because it's about you
25:49
doing your special youth thing. Yeah, I I kind of have a thought
25:53
that kind of mixes with again another comment that we have in
25:58
in chat where Durantra said like they should really invest in
26:01
time walking a lot more to make dungeons viable as a full time
26:04
thing. It's like one of Wow's biggest
26:07
weaknesses that content becomes old within five months.
26:10
I would say like, if we have follower dungeons and we have,
26:13
and it's becoming like the new mainstay, why not eat, borrow
26:17
that page from Final Fantasy and make the follower version a
26:22
little more cinematic like you like?
26:24
Because it's just one player, or it's a group of players that are
26:27
going in being like, hey, we're just here for like more of the
26:30
story. Like have more of those
26:33
monologues that they've cut out a lot specifically because of
26:37
like Keystone Dungeons and it being all like Rush, rush, Rush.
26:40
And then it's like, OK, on normal mode, on heroic and
26:44
mythic. It's really just this sort of
26:47
gauntlet puzzle that you have to figure out.
26:50
But on follower mode, that's when we could really put in that
26:53
story into it. Which would also I think would
26:56
be really nice because the dungeons are really integral to
27:00
the story, right? Like, part of it is that you go
27:02
through the story quest and then you jump into the follower
27:05
dungeon, but it's not the follower you in apparently must
27:09
go to the follower dungeon, but you know you, you go through the
27:11
the quest and then you hit the dungeon at the end of the quest
27:14
for the zone. But also there's a ton of lore
27:17
going on and there's a ton of really exciting things,
27:19
especially in really old content.
27:21
You would have like really major bosses in dungeons, which to be
27:24
fair we've cut out a lot. But I think giving that
27:28
opportunity you could even make it a trigger thing.
27:29
Like you're able to turn on cinematic mode and then you're
27:32
going through the dungeon with your followers much more for the
27:36
sake of the story and the sake of the experience versus like
27:40
just trying to clear it out for leveling purposes.
27:42
I think that's a really good idea.
27:44
I think that giving that opportunity for people to dive
27:48
in deeper to the story and and use those dungeons and expand
27:51
upon them the way that we used to see World of Warcraft do
27:54
could be really cool and could be really exciting.
27:57
Yeah I I honestly I think follower mode is can be used for
28:04
so much to really push people to go back into those those
28:07
dungeons story like you're saying is is good professions
28:11
right rather than having professions drop on the Super
28:13
rare chance off of this event that nobody touches you know
28:16
five months later as as Diandra was saying right what if it was
28:21
like in the dungeon and then anybody can do it because hey I
28:26
could grab it from a follower dungeon right.
28:29
Maybe maybe it's a it's something like they do have
28:35
though that story element back like you're saying legion every
28:38
zone used to finish in the dungeon like that was how they
28:43
capped off they capped off the story was like that big fight
28:46
against the Drug Mart to reclaim reclaim the Titan relic was like
28:51
the end of high mountain and every zone kind of had that end
28:54
like Val Shura and so forth and then they backed away from that.
28:58
We still had some big story moments happening in in BFAI
29:01
would say with like the two mythic only dungeons also being
29:06
being a big thing as well. That is definitely not the case
29:11
in terms of what we're getting now in in Dragonflight
29:16
specifically, I got the chance to sit down with the story team,
29:21
the the dungeon team, the quest team, like over the course of
29:25
different different interviews as part of the community
29:28
council. And one of the things that came
29:30
up is that like, yeah, they don't want to put the story into
29:35
dungeons because a segment of the player base doesn't want to
29:40
touch dungeons. But if with these dungeons, I
29:43
think they solved that problem. Yeah.
29:45
Especially since you know one of the reasons that I think
29:48
dungeons are scary is because people are pushing so hard and
29:51
and you know we're trying to move which makes it even more so
29:54
like if you're interested in the story you feel like a big jerk
29:57
being like no, but I want to like go over here and I want to
30:00
see what's going on and and so having that opportunity to deep
30:03
dive into this story would be really cool.
30:05
I think the one last thing I'll say about follower Dungeons is
30:08
that I'm really excited as a primarily, it's funny thing this
30:13
is a primary rater, but when I'm not rating as a primarily solo
30:16
player, I'm seeing a lot more focus on singular PDE both with
30:22
the delves but also with things like the follower dungeons and
30:25
it is really exciting to see those opportunities open.
30:28
You know it. It is an MMO, so I guess I have
30:30
to talk to people, but having more opportunities to explore
30:34
without needing to always gather a group or talk to, you know,
30:38
potentially cranky randos is nice and it's fun and exciting.
30:43
Yeah, I I do have one last question for you on follower
30:46
dungeons. Sort of put this to towards you
30:48
before the show, but if you wanted, would you want follower
30:54
dungeons to that sort of tech to graduate into other
30:57
difficulties? Would you want heroic follower
31:00
dungeons? Mythic follower dungeons?
31:02
Follower dungeon keystones? Like where would you say like,
31:06
OK, this is this is where we cut it.
31:08
This is when you have to find four people who may or may not
31:12
be friendly to go and do this content.
31:14
Like what? Where do you where do you draw
31:16
that line? Oh, I think it would be super
31:18
fun to be able to push keys on follower dungeons.
31:20
I think that would give more end game Pve solo content.
31:26
And also just for example, would mean that I'd actually get my
31:28
keys in a week. I wouldn't have to gather again,
31:31
gather people, or or queue up. And I I should say every time I
31:37
have queued up it has been fine. Like it has not been a big deal.
31:40
People have been nice. People at least have been
31:43
patient, but it it is anxiety inducing and stressful for me at
31:48
least. And so I think I would love to
31:50
have that ability to push at higher levels and to keep, you
31:53
know, getting those increased challenges without needing to
31:58
either, you know, schedule with a mythic group or push keys,
32:03
which sounds like the most horrifying thing and to me on my
32:06
own. How about you Manny?
32:08
I think you might differ slightly.
32:11
Yeah, yeah, I I do. I do differ.
32:13
I think that there's a place for it.
32:16
I think up until Mythic like I think it would be fine on like
32:24
Normal and Heroic. I actually think that Mythic 0
32:27
keys is where I would draw the line on it.
32:30
Because Mythic 0 is where I want people to like team up, learn
32:36
how you interact with other people to overcome overcome
32:42
things, including the like. The more challenging things
32:45
where it's not just what you do, but also you have to react with
32:50
how somebody else works with it. So like, if there's a boss where
32:54
it ties two people together and they have to, like, run together
32:56
to like, get rid of it, and they decide to put that on a mythic
32:59
difficulty, you have a very short period of time to react to
33:02
it. Where if it's on normal, it'll
33:04
probably be like a small drain on your health.
33:06
And eventually you're like, oh, I guess it disappears when we
33:09
get closer together, right? Like it, it'll be an annoyance,
33:12
but it won't be a threatening ability.
33:14
And if you put something that's threatening and then part of
33:17
that responsibility is on AAI, can that AI fail it?
33:21
Does that AI handle it for you? If it's not balanced on that
33:25
razor edge, then you're either negating some of the difficulty
33:30
for that challenge or making it frustratingly more challenging
33:34
because you're like, no, come back here, Manny Bot, you're
33:38
running away from me and I, I we need to get together and you're
33:40
like this stupid Manny Bot, like come on Blizzard, why did you
33:44
make this that hard? It's like, no, no, no, that
33:46
should be another player that you communicate with and you get
33:48
and you figure it out and you get it done.
33:50
And so I feel like those difficulties should be those
33:53
difficult skill checks should be reserved for player and player
33:58
interaction and shouldn't be such a bouncing act that people
34:03
should start getting frustrated. Blizzard for how, how difficult
34:06
or how stupid they made their their bots, right?
34:10
The other part of it is that I think that delves are kind of a
34:16
offshoot like you're saying. I really think that, like, if we
34:20
have delves and you have that AI companion who you can customize
34:26
to, like, you know, either handle things that your kit
34:30
doesn't allow you to handle or emphasize things to allow you to
34:33
handle things better, that in itself is a completely different
34:36
way to balance a challenge and a fun way to go.
34:39
But even then, they're saying that like, hey, we can balance
34:43
this to a roundabout heroic, this won't get to mythic.
34:46
So even the team is signifying from the how they're balancing
34:50
delves and how they're setting up the rewards of delves, that
34:53
Mythic is a step too far. And so that's why I don't think
34:56
you can turn around and say, hey let's make keystones and mythic
35:01
0 followers, because followers are partially automated
35:05
completion for you. That's fair.
35:08
And I think the more as you were speaking, I was sort of starting
35:11
to think that I I do think that I'm, I'm biased because for me
35:18
Mythic dungeons are just a way to gear for raid.
35:22
And so I think that what we want is we want end game solo Pve
35:28
content that exists for end game.
35:31
Or what I want is end game solo Pve content that exists for end
35:36
game, solo Pve content's sake, right?
35:38
The same way that if somebody was like, oh, I think like I
35:41
don't have 15 friends. So I think that they should tune
35:45
raids so that it's possible for me to do them Like I I I can
35:48
choose to go on with me and my five friends.
35:50
I would be like, no, like that's that that's going to destroy the
35:53
raid, right. The whole point is that you have
35:55
to work with all these people and the challenge is in the
35:58
organization. And so if if they simplify
36:01
everything out to the point where it could be brought down
36:03
to five people and you know then then that's going to take away
36:08
from the the purpose and the goal of rating as a concept.
36:13
And I think that you're right that if they simply to to make
36:17
it's so you can do follower dungeons up through like an A
36:21
mythic plus level A you kind of have to figure out if the AI is
36:24
going to just fix the problem for you.
36:25
Or B, you kind of go into a Final Fantasy world where you're
36:29
like, OK, we're going to just script out everything and all of
36:32
the mechanics are solo mechanics.
36:34
And so it's all kind of how you deal with it on your own.
36:36
And I think you're right that that would take away some of the
36:39
personality of what a Mythic dungeon is about.
36:43
So I think that that yes, I I I will, I will agree as we speak
36:48
that follower dungeons are great for normal.
36:50
I think I I do want to see more priority, which it seems like
36:54
Blizzard wants to see as well, into making interesting end game
36:58
solo content. But I I do think that turning
37:00
Mythic Dungeons into entertaining solo end game
37:03
content is not the solution here.
37:06
Perfect. Now I'm going to contradict
37:08
myself. Mythic dungeons.
37:10
Mega dungeons. Sorry, I'm.
37:12
I'm saying that wrong. Ali will hate me.
37:14
Mega dungeons. I I want the story back in
37:18
there. Return to Karasan, right?
37:20
Was fantastic. And there are like when you fall
37:24
into the library, you get shrunk down and you're like, you're
37:27
slowly falling. What a absolute waste of time in
37:30
a mythic Plus Keystone. People must be screaming at
37:34
their computers being like, just let me fall faster, just let me
37:36
fall faster. But like, it's a cinematic cool
37:40
thing that really made that dungeon come alive and feel
37:43
bigger, and I want that. But like, what's the place for
37:48
that? Do we then make a follower mega
37:50
dungeon or is that like the base mega dungeon is just going to be
37:55
like this? Because I'm going to tell you,
37:58
return to Karzan, Great Mechagon, Tazavesh and lesser
38:06
extent, I think they're kind of getting a little bit better with
38:09
it, but to a lesser extent, the Dawn of the infinite, right?
38:14
They didn't feel as epic and I think it's just because they
38:18
were really focused on making it a good mythic plus structured
38:23
dungeon that they can split into two parts that they missed the
38:26
boat on like the original concept of this mega dungeon and
38:30
so like maybe follower dungeons could work with that in in terms
38:34
of bringing back the cinematic and I like play it on like the
38:38
mega the dungeon version and they also have a follower
38:42
version that has the cinematics and stuff in it as well.
38:45
Maybe that's what I want too. Yeah, I think that my, I think
38:50
that Mega Dungeons were kind of trying to do what I was just
38:52
describing, which is the I want to raid, but I only want to play
38:57
with five people. And I think that what
38:59
potentially was missed when they were forming that is that like
39:06
mythic dungeon culture is so specific, right?
39:12
It is, they have World of Warcraft has done an excellent
39:15
job of making it so that mythic Dungeons are hyper focused on
39:18
speed and you know like and and quality and and and and
39:25
basically going through things as cleanly as possible.
39:28
And that doesn't lend itself to a an epic, long drawn out
39:34
experience where you're gaining this beautiful cinematic world
39:39
selfishly. I think that that would be a
39:41
great opportunity for end game solo content.
39:47
You know where you could potentially have people, but
39:51
part of it is that you're going in on your own, so you can go at
39:53
your own pace and you can have this big magical adventure
39:57
however you want to have it. But I think I I I think that
40:03
that is complicated to do in a five person.
40:09
Situation that has been built as Mythic Plus, I frankly can't.
40:13
I don't think I've ever done a mega dungeon before.
40:16
It's been split into two Mythic pluses, so I've only ever done
40:18
it in No. No, no.
40:21
It's like you have to do it in its first form one, because they
40:26
do make it actually more difficult.
40:27
They actually lower the difficulty when when defensive
40:32
is or rather Dawn of the Infinite went into mythic.
40:36
Plus the difficulty of some of the mechanics got lowered, like
40:40
Chromie. Chromie helps you a bit more
40:45
morchy with her big big heads. She didn't used to have like the
40:48
Super giant mass, so you had to like really look for her.
40:52
Some of those mechanics were tuned to like basically be one
40:56
shots based on your like current current gearing if you weren't
41:01
like super geared from like raiding in in that tear.
41:04
So I think like it was pretty much a a big epic push in terms
41:10
of like how they tuned it. It was just missing a little bit
41:14
of that cinematic flair that could that really could have put
41:16
it over. And I think that was because
41:19
they they, and especially like when you are like talking with
41:24
the Dragons near the end of part one and Part 2, like there's a
41:28
lot more conversation that happens and they cut out a lot
41:31
of those voice lines to speed you through it.
41:33
So yeah, I would say try it on Mythic 0.
41:38
You're going to over gear it now, but you will get a lot more
41:41
of the story. Manny was like, you need, you
41:45
need to do this, and then just describes my nightmare.
41:48
Oh, a harder mythic plus dungeon that's going for hours that
41:52
you're like with this group of people and if you drop the ball,
41:55
you're ruining their day. I.
41:58
Lex, you're going to overhear it now.
42:00
It's going to be great. Like the the part of it like
42:03
that you're going in immediately.
42:05
And it was hard at that time was because nobody had the
42:07
expectations that you were going to do the Deathless run.
42:10
The Deathless runs were like the Super challenge for it, right?
42:14
Like you were going to die. You weren't going to do it in
42:16
one night. I think when I initially went
42:20
through, I went with Rolly shout out to Rolly Rods and we
42:26
actually did get through it the first night.
42:29
But then I went back with a second group and we did not get
42:31
through it in in a single night. So like even same gear, just
42:35
slightly different composition team, not every team's going to
42:38
get through it and you can just be like, yeah, no, this is
42:40
something that will like save our lockout and come back kind
42:44
of like your rating. So if you enjoy the RAID
42:45
lockout, it can definitely go that way.
42:48
We'll. We'll have to, we'll have to set
42:50
up a time that we can do less, especially with the next mega
42:54
dungeon, whenever that comes out, where we can do the mega
42:56
dungeon with four friends. And then we can get a sixth
42:58
person whose only job is to be invoice and occasionally tell me
43:02
that I'm doing OK and that everyone's happy and we're
43:04
having a good time and I shouldn't worry at all.
43:07
And then I'll be able to get through.
43:08
I'll get through a a whole mega dungeon.
43:10
We'll we'll we'll get chat to help us.
43:12
We'll we'll be like chat, chat, cheer on and then we'll get Chad
43:16
to help. OK.
43:17
Our final story of the night is the Big Wave 3 of hero talents.
43:25
This was a big one. Yeah, they put out eight hero
43:30
talents instead of the usual 4. Lex, do you want do you want to
43:33
go through these? Yes, of course.
43:35
So there is a Loon's chosen druids, I think.
43:39
I think I said that wrong. A Loon's chosen Druids which is
43:42
Balance and Guardian. Windstalker Druids which is
43:45
Ferrell and Restoration scale. Commander of Okers which is
43:49
Devastation and Augmentation. Herald of the Sun Paladins which
43:52
is Retribution and Holy Templar Paladins which is Retribution
43:56
and Protection Trickster Rogues which is Outline, Subtlety
44:00
Diabolist Warlock which is Destruction and Demolition and
44:03
Colossus Warrior which is Arms and Protection.
44:07
I screwed up on the show notes. There is no demolition warlock.
44:11
That's supposed to be demonology, I think.
44:16
And I'm like, and I was like, wait, wait, demolition warlock?
44:20
And we say what? I was like I I was fully
44:27
prepared to be like, Oh yeah, the this is.
44:30
So when I was going through the hero talents, I essentially
44:32
looked at their new skill and their and their capstone right.
44:37
I everything else I got to in the weeds.
44:39
And what we have learned both from the fact that I thought
44:42
that Demolition Warlock existed, and also from that, is that I
44:47
really don't understand how other classes work.
44:52
I was like, oh, this looks really cool.
44:53
I don't know if it's good or if it's terrible.
44:56
Like, I don't know if this skill would be absolutely a nightmare
45:00
or if it is exactly what we're looking for, but it seems like a
45:04
cool class fantasy to me. Yeah.
45:07
And I think there is this kind of inverse relationship where
45:12
how attached you are to the class with like how much like
45:18
the cost fantasy rather how much you're attached to the class
45:20
fantasy with how much you like these hero talents.
45:23
Because in terms of like what they are mechanically, they're
45:30
just like another set of talents.
45:33
Some of them are pretty lacklustre in terms of impact.
45:37
Some of them kind of kind of like are transformative.
45:41
Some of them have like a huge mind share.
45:43
Like we were talking about the Oracle priests last last
45:46
episode, right. And we're talking about like how
45:48
much of A mind share that is and like, oh, you know what that one
45:52
feels more disciplined and less about, about holy, right.
45:58
And if you're looking at that intersection between discipline
46:01
and holy, like, yeah, it's sort of drawing it to it.
46:04
Like, are we hitting an an even balance?
46:07
I found with these, some of them are like like the Diabolis
46:13
Warlock 'cause we we're we've been stuck on that for a little
46:15
bit. I thought that the kind of lore
46:18
behind it was really cool because it's all established
46:21
lore and it seems like a natural progression, but it doesn't over
46:26
Shadow what demonology is or what destruction is.
46:32
Whereas if you look at one of the earlier ones, like the Dark
46:36
Ranger, Dark Ranger is almost like it could be a class in and
46:41
of itself. It doesn't seem like an
46:44
evolution of Beastmaster or Sorry, not Survival.
46:51
Marksmanship. Sorry doesn't seem like a
46:54
evolution of Marksmanship or or or Beastmaster.
46:56
It just seems like its own beast.
46:59
And that means that it's kind of overshadowing either or and and
47:04
so people who look at it don't go like, oh, that's the halfway
47:07
point between Beastmaster and marksmanship.
47:11
They're like, that's its own thing.
47:13
And why can't survival be a dark Ranger?
47:18
Like, look at Sylvanas, She doesn't have a pet.
47:21
Why does Beastmaster get one? And I guess then you go look at
47:26
Shaw, not Shaw. Sorry.
47:28
Nathanos. Rather And like he's a dark
47:31
Ranger who has who has pets so that there's one thing but it's
47:35
like it Usually the fight back with these is like the biggest,
47:42
the biggest vitriol that that I see from these is about like the
47:46
thematic stuff is about like that.
47:49
That's not what my my shaman would do.
47:54
And now I feel stuck doing that because it might be the best
47:58
performing sort of thing. I think I said this last week,
48:00
but I do still almost wish and this would be a nightmare
48:04
because it would make so many more and it'll be impossible to
48:07
tune. But I I I wish that there was
48:09
also an option for every spec, which is no, no, this is Holy
48:15
Priest. Like, no, no, I'm a fair old.
48:18
You're really digging into the class fantasy of what you were
48:21
already playing and that that would be or even just like, you
48:25
know, instead of doing a talent, it's just like a flat buff of X
48:30
percent that they balance. I I don't think it would work
48:33
out, but if it magically balance anything you wanted to, I think
48:36
that would be a good sort of middle ground.
48:39
OK I I think that like treating these as sub specs had like I
48:44
think that's when it works the best when it's like what's
48:48
what's the thing that like marries the protection paladin
48:55
and the retribution paladin, right.
48:58
And it is that like sure strike of justice.
49:01
Those are the ones that meet out like holy, holy vengeance, holy
49:08
wrath upon your your enemies, right?
49:11
Whether you are, whether you are standing between your enemy and
49:14
your allies or whether you are like charging in like that's
49:18
that's what like puts the puts paladins, Protection Paladins
49:23
and Retribution Paladins on that same page which is different
49:26
from Holy Paladins. Cause Holy Paladins are standing
49:29
back and like supporting and healing their their allies.
49:33
They're not actually for the most part like, you know
49:36
glimmered and smacking to get the get those extra heels off to
49:41
the side. They're not actually focused on
49:44
like meeting out Justice and and and Holy Wrath where where when
49:52
you look at protection and and holy they're not about the
49:56
damage. They're about the supportive.
49:58
They're like I'm going to be there so that you can do your
50:02
job and that's where you get the like Holy Closet Palate which
50:09
which I get why they have their wardrobes like like I call it
50:12
that. But it's like it's just like
50:15
that is the spec where it makes the most sense.
50:18
Like that's the crossover where it makes the most sense to put
50:21
the like supportive speck in there.
50:24
Where it's like here, here is this thing and you can you can
50:28
like wield these ornaments of light right to either defend
50:31
yourself or or or beat out more justice.
50:34
That I think is like the marriage between holy and and
50:38
protection. And so conceptually I like the
50:41
paladin ones and I see how like they are the intersection of
50:45
those of those specks. I just think in certain cases
50:50
they've kind of overridden it by putting the flavor of something
50:53
that is almost outside of all of the specks entirely.
50:57
I I will say I think I'm very judged jealous of Paladin, which
51:02
is the herald of the Sun Death's sunspot, which I've decided
51:08
means that they are essentially just burning people they like.
51:14
Get the healer. Like Little Deep EPS are getting
51:17
a little bit. Are you having a good time?
51:19
I'm putting the power of the sun on you and now you have to live
51:22
like cauterize your wounds. Shut up.
51:23
Get up there and start fighting, which I love.
51:26
I think that's exactly. What they need I I do love
51:29
Herald of the Sun's Paladin. I think it's just like Glimmodin
51:33
to the nines where they're like, hey, put glimmer on these guys
51:37
and for the rest of you, shut up.
51:39
Here's the sunspot. Extra light for you.
51:41
And it just like it. Like it just it it seems almost
51:46
like, you know back when holy priests used to just cover the
51:50
raid with their hot and that's how they got things rolling.
51:55
That's kind of where I think that they're putting Holy
51:58
Paladin now where you're like glimmer on you, sunspot on you.
52:02
I do like a beacon on you. And now when I hit one heel,
52:05
everybody's getting a piece of it.
52:08
Yeah, I think, I will say, I think that they're having Herald
52:11
of the Sun looks a lot of fun. I think it's very funny that
52:14
they gave the exact same name of what you put on your enemies as
52:17
what you put on your allies. But you know it it works.
52:20
It it does seem like I I I think that they are doing some
52:25
interesting stuff with a few of these where they're really
52:28
looking at ways that they can make everything interact with
52:32
each other. And so it's like oh you put
52:35
this, I think I felt this the most with I want to say the
52:37
rogues, the the trickster rogues for this where it's like when
52:42
you cast your new spell your keystone spell it gives people
52:50
the, the, the, the days basically phased is the word
52:56
that I'm looking for. And if you cast your capstone
52:59
when they're phased then it does double damage.
53:03
Like that sort of interaction sounds very fun.
53:05
And I think it does actually in my opinion as someone who's does
53:08
not play rogue. It it does give that rogue
53:12
fantasy of the like, oh, you're jumping all around the the
53:15
battlefield and you're over here and you do this one style and
53:17
then you take your little backflip and oh, you're over
53:20
here and nobody knew where you got there.
53:21
Like that sort of Rogue is very much a a class fan.
53:25
The listen I had again is not a rogue player.
53:27
Like it. Like, there is that fantasy
53:29
there of that, especially with the Trickster where it's this
53:32
like, oh, you thought and then bam, here's the knife that I had
53:36
hidden away, right? Like, that's kind of cool.
53:38
But like the one issue that I have with like Trickster Rogue
53:43
is that the keystone ability is and the phase is triggered off a
53:49
defensive that you're now wanting to use as an offensive
53:52
ability. That annoyed me to no end when I
53:56
was reading through this. And the reason that I'm not so
53:58
annoyed with Trickster Rogue is because deeper into the tree
54:04
they give you multiple ways of slapping phased on enemies,
54:08
including like throwing out a smoke bomb and a bunch of
54:12
different things so that you're not reliant on offensively using
54:17
your defensive spell that would that would have set me to no
54:20
end. They did something like this
54:23
shamans back in ICC, back when we had two defensives and you
54:26
know that was a lot better days. Anyways, you would use your
54:30
Ancestral Rage, which would reduce the damage you take by
54:34
40%, but then they added it to be kind of like a invocate where
54:41
you would get your mana back over the course of rage.
54:45
So you would be dumping your mana like you were an Arcane
54:48
Mage before Arcane Mages even had this thing, and then popping
54:52
your defensive whether you're taking damage or not just to get
54:55
your mana back so you could dump it again.
54:57
And by the way, sorry that you used it 5 seconds ago.
55:00
Here's the damage event. You better hope that that one
55:02
defense you have left was good enough, and that's what I don't
55:06
want for rogues. Yeah, that is, that is very
55:08
fair. And I think I also there was a
55:10
little part of me again as somebody who does not play DPS,
55:13
who was wondering if some of these had the same issue that I
55:17
had with Oracle, which is just that it became too complicated.
55:22
Like it made things like oh, you have to remember like 5
55:24
different debuffs and you have to Add all of it together.
55:26
And again, I do not play DPS and I'm not great at evaluating how
55:31
things would play in a class that I don't have a lot of
55:35
experience with. So I genuinely was not able to
55:38
tell, like, will this be overly complicated or will this be very
55:42
fun? Yeah.
55:44
So I will trust all of you who actually play the classes to
55:46
give me that information. Yeah, I think that they've
55:49
learned a couple of lessons from the from that kind of feedback.
55:54
In fact, part of the news that came out last week is that
55:58
Oracle Priest is going back into the shop.
56:00
They heard the feedback. They're going to address things
56:03
they had, said White. When they put it out that they
56:05
had, I think two or three other concepts that they were holding
56:11
back just to see what the reaction was.
56:13
And that's the big thing, guys. Make sure you were looking at
56:15
this, getting that feedback to them because they are willing to
56:19
completely pull it back, rework it, and come out with something
56:23
new. But like, you got to do that now
56:25
rather than like a day after it goes live, 'cause then you're
56:28
you're you're kind of out of luck at that point, right?
56:31
This is very interesting to me because I remember in Shadow
56:34
Lands especially Blizzard was very, very much like we came up
56:37
with this concept. You guys are going to like it.
56:40
I swear you're going to like it, just play it, you're going to
56:43
like it. And they ended up, you know,
56:45
changing how the covenants went. But it is very interesting to
56:52
see that shift from like, no, no, no, I swear we know better.
56:55
I promise we know this you guys to really inviting group
57:00
feedback and I I think that again as I love to hedge my
57:04
bets, I think that there's a a place for both of them.
57:06
Like on the one hand, I do not study human behaviour and I have
57:09
not made games for the last 30 years and so I could very well
57:14
be wrong about what I will enjoy and what I will not enjoy.
57:17
Usually I'm not. I'm usually pretty good at
57:19
knowing what I'm going to like because I have been myself for
57:22
not quite 30 years, but we're getting there.
57:25
But I, I, I, I think that, you know, sometimes I do think
57:28
there's a benefit to a game developer just being like, no,
57:32
give it a try. Like trust me, I am not losing
57:36
my mind. But it's also very good to see
57:38
them kind of step back and and listen to the players a little
57:41
bit more and not only listen but invite that feedback.
57:44
Yeah, yeah, so more proactive stuff here.
57:48
I will say I was sad that we didn't get any videos with like
57:51
some of the developers or people who played a spec sitting down
57:57
and talking about it. I thought that gave a lot of
57:59
great context to it, but we have seen a lot of follow up on the
58:03
forums about things including like the Diabolis Warlock.
58:08
How exactly does the portal work when you have these three
58:10
different demons? Is it a random demon each time?
58:12
No. In fact it's like a rotation of
58:14
the demons and you'll cycle through one at a time so you'll
58:17
know which demon is coming up sort of sort of thing.
58:20
But make sure again you are checking these out.
58:24
Check out our show notes, we've got links to everything in there
58:27
and get that feedback out. And of course, as more of this
58:30
comes out, we will talk about it more, but that's going to do it
58:34
for us today. If you want to check out these
58:36
show notes, talk about this this stuff with Lex or myself or
58:40
everybody, make sure that you join the Discord.
58:43
That's bit dot LY slash fast Discord and Lex.
58:47
Where can people find you when you're not talking about World
58:49
Warcraft here? People can find me on Twitter,
58:54
Slash, axe, die, and to some degree threads at Lex under
58:59
score Rants. And you can also find me walking
59:01
slowly around random places, writing in my little journal.
59:05
Awesome. And As for me, you can find me
59:07
on pretty much any social media as true villain Manny.
59:09
That's true without the E And until next time, guys.
59:12
May all your hits be crits.