Latest / The Future Herd / 2: The Dance of Foresight: Reimagining Leadership in Agri-Food with Ruth Knight

Transcript

2: The Dance of Foresight: Reimagining Leadership in Agri-Food with Ruth Knight · The Future Herd

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Future Herd.
• 0:02
  I'm Jesse Hirsch.
• 0:04
  Today's episode asks a deceptively simple question, what does it take to build a
• 0:09
  sector that's truly ready for the future?
• 0:12
  Not a sector that reacts to pressure, but one that cultivates the mindset and
• 0:17
  cultural capacity to face uncertainty with confidence, curiosity, and imagination.
• 0:25
  My guest is Ruth Knight, a director with the Agricultural Adaptation Council and
• 0:31
  Chair of their AgriFood 2050 Committee.
• 0:35
  In our conversation, she argues that foresight isn't just a planning tool,
• 0:40
  it's a practice of reconnection.
• 0:43
  It's the work of shifting how we think, how we listen, and how
• 0:47
  we create space for discovery.
• 0:49
  It's a move from control to emergence, from rigid problem solving to a more fluid
• 0:55
  dance between pragmatism and imagination.
• 0:59
  Ruth brings a perspective rooted in community development, rural planning,
• 1:04
  agronomy, and lived experience.
• 1:07
  She speaks to the power of dialogue, the need for psychological safety,
• 1:12
  the role of play and experimentation, and the moral responsibility to
• 1:17
  empower younger generations who will inherit a far more challenging
• 1:22
  landscape than the one we entered.
• 1:24
  If we want a resilient AgriFood system, one capable of adapting,
• 1:29
  learning, and thriving in the decades ahead, we need more than strategies.
• 1:35
  We need a cultural transformation.
• 1:38
  And as Ruth reminds us, that transformation begins with mindsets
• 1:42
  shaped by patience, curiosity, empathy, and an openness to the unknown.
• 1:49
  Let's get into it.
• 1:52
  Well, my name is Ruth Knight and I am a director on the
• 1:56
  Agriculture Adaptation Council.
• 1:59
  A very diverse, uh, agriculture and AgriFood organization of over
• 2:04
  60 members, and as a director, I chair the AgriFood 2050 committee.
• 2:12
  In my career, my, I have been an independent agronomist for the last 20
• 2:17
  years and I've always been passionate about agriculture and rural communities.
• 2:26
  And I'm also find it very important in terms of what is
• 2:32
  the future that I'm creating for myself and my communities, and.
• 2:36
  My future, our future generations.
• 2:39
  What is it about this practice of imagining the future of engaging in
• 2:43
  foresight that you think is valuable, both for yourself but also for the sector?
• 2:49
  I think in terms of the process, I see it as an opportunity to
• 2:55
  have conversations and in that conversation to allow various ideas.
• 3:02
  People, exchanging their experiences and their perspectives.
• 3:07
  And I think that in itself will bring resiliency to our
• 3:12
  society, our to our sector.
• 3:15
  And I think it's, it's, um, important, um, that we appreciate that that process
• 3:21
  is necessary for us to reconnect.
• 3:25
  And and then in the actual.
• 3:28
  Stepping into the future.
• 3:31
  We discussed earlier that it's, um, it's a room full of leaders that are
• 3:37
  primarily really good problem solvers and there may be a biased against
• 3:44
  ideation or big picture thinking.
• 3:49
  And so it simply comes down to creating the muscle to.
• 3:56
  To think about what you want as opposed to those things you don't want.
• 4:00
  And to be proactive in terms of this is the future that I would want
• 4:05
  to be in as opposed to reacting.
• 4:08
  And in that reacting, getting really stuck in also thinking that other
• 4:12
  forces beyond myself are in control.
• 4:15
  And it, it certainly evokes the concept of we don't know what we don't know, and oh.
• 4:21
  The opportunity for discovery in these types of process.
• 4:25
  For me, it's, it's discovery of other operations, other farmers
• 4:28
  who I can learn from in terms of talking how they manage themselves.
• 4:33
  But to your point, it's also ideas and ideas that may be new to people
• 4:38
  that prepare them for the future, that empower them for the future.
• 4:41
  So they see it as something to be excited about rather than be fearful about how,
• 4:46
  how do we make sure there is that balance.
• 4:49
  Between the pragmatic and the theoretical, but between the problem
• 4:54
  solving and the need to kind of, you know, for lack of a better word,
• 4:58
  expand our mind so that we're ready for whatever the future throws at us.
• 5:04
  Yeah, I'm not sure if it's a balance or a dance in terms of stepping
• 5:09
  into that future in terms of the ideation and creativity and discovery.
• 5:17
  I think it's an internal process within ourselves.
• 5:20
  And that internal process then reflects in terms of how we
• 5:24
  connect to the external world.
• 5:26
  That's a significant reconnection in terms of we are of, of everything else.
• 5:31
  And so, that it's a dance between the pragmatic and the discovery of, yeah,
• 5:37
  we don't know what we don't know.
• 5:40
  And collectively we're a lot stronger in terms of addressing that unknown.
• 5:46
  Then spiraling down into this is what I know from past, this
• 5:52
  is what I'm gonna stick with.
• 5:54
  The un getting unstuck into that, um, really makes us vulnerable.
• 6:00
  And I think in that vulnerability a lot can be achieved.
• 6:05
  Right on.
• 6:06
  And I'm very much a believer in the role of vulnerability and innovation,
• 6:11
  and certainly in the tech sector, they, they had this phrase, uh, fail
• 6:15
  early and fail often as a way of hardening a startup to learn about
• 6:20
  their market, to learn about their technology, to learn about their area.
• 6:25
  I love the notion of dance, right?
• 6:28
  That it is a kind of dance between the pragmatic and the theoretical
• 6:32
  and the problem solver and the ideas.
• 6:35
  What about the role of play?
• 6:37
  And the reason I'm, I'm sort of bringing in the play piece is again, in the tech
• 6:41
  sector, there's a lot of play both inside the enterprise and within research and
• 6:47
  development where they're playing with technology, they're playing with ideas.
• 6:51
  What role can play.
• 6:53
  Uh, have, uh, both in the AgriFood sector, but also within this
• 6:56
  process of, of imagining futures and preparing for futures.
• 7:01
  That's, that is really significant and that's a part that we sort of leave behind
• 7:05
  when we l when we, step into adulthood.
• 7:11
  And also when we, it, it tends to be when we get more resources,
• 7:15
  more, we're more reluctant to sort of play around with them.
• 7:19
  We don't wanna lose them.
• 7:21
  You know, the demographic of the egg sector is in that that, that stage
• 7:29
  of life, I guess, where a lot of that is, gone through tough times and don't
• 7:33
  wanna, you know, toss it all away.
• 7:36
  But, uh, you know, a safe play is.
• 7:40
  And learning in, and learning to stretch ourselves in play.
• 7:44
  Of course it activates a different part of our imagination and, uh,
• 7:50
  the imagination is so powerful.
• 7:53
  There's yes.
• 7:54
  Yeah.
• 7:55
  And on the one hand I think we're making the argument as to why we need more young
• 7:59
  people as part of the process, right?
• 8:00
  Because they bring a kind of imagination, a kind of, questioning, perhaps a tr
• 8:06
  tried and tested practices that we take for granted that fresh eyes might
• 8:11
  have a way of innovating or improving.
• 8:14
  But even as we're discussing this, I'm imagining kind of role playing games, you
• 8:18
  know, within a foresight exercise where you ask the farmer to play the producer,
• 8:22
  you ask the producer to play the role of the farmer, you ask the young person
• 8:27
  to play the role of the government.
• 8:28
  And again, just to get us thinking about.
• 8:31
  Other people's expertise, other people's perspectives, so that we broaden our
• 8:37
  sense of the future rather than narrow it.
• 8:40
  How do we, and, and here, I'm, I'm being a little bit of a devil's advocate.
• 8:44
  How do we keep that play?
• 8:46
  How do we keep that kind of abstract element?
• 8:49
  Rooted in the problem solving.
• 8:52
  That is, is what attracts many minds.
• 8:54
  Because I, what I found interesting at the event was that on the one hand,
• 8:58
  there are lots of people like you, like me, who think about policy, who think
• 9:01
  about culture, who think about the larger basket that all this happens in.
• 9:06
  But there are many who just wanna focus on the bottom line, or they wanna focus on,
• 9:11
  you know, making things more efficient.
• 9:13
  And so it strikes me the challenge is that inclusivity.
• 9:17
  H how do you balance it so that all groups are kind of, uh, included in
• 9:22
  participating in this larger conversation about Ontario's uh, uh, food future?
• 9:28
  Well, I think what we recognized in the, in our process is.
• 9:34
  We gain sort of solid ground with our peeps, our usual peeps, and then make
• 9:41
  others, others curious and create an invitation for them to come to the table.
• 9:48
  And there, there is a learning process in terms of, future thinking
• 9:55
  as opposed to problem solving.
• 9:56
  And we sort of.
• 9:57
  Okay.
• 9:58
  So that's what I like.
• 9:59
  And when we get, into a safer space, we can have those conversations and
• 10:04
  then invitational to new people.
• 10:06
  So it becomes, iterative in terms of inviting that diversity and with,
• 10:13
  diversity in and of itself will create new perspectives and, but it, it's, you
• 10:23
  know, and it, and it's a challenge in terms of, of people getting used to that
• 10:28
  outcome, that it's not a one and done.
• 10:30
  Like, oh, where are, we're gonna come back to talking about that.
• 10:33
  So putting a fresh a, a, you know, a fresh menu, setting the
• 10:40
  table a little bit differently.
• 10:42
  In the order for people to think that they have been heard, and I think
• 10:45
  it's very important that everybody is heard and we don't try to distill it.
• 10:50
  Down to, oh, we all gotta get on the same page.
• 10:53
  Well, that's really a misnomer in terms of, there are a lot of different ways
• 10:59
  to interpret a story and create a story.
• 11:02
  Well and it, it does strike me that there's an interesting tension
• 11:05
  between the desire for clarity and the desire to get everyone on the same
• 11:09
  page because that, those were both recurring themes that I heard a lot.
• 11:14
  And again, I, I love your evocation of curiosity.
• 11:18
  'cause to me that is central to the success of such an initiative that
• 11:23
  it always piques people's curiosity.
• 11:25
  That they always feel that they're gonna learn new things or be
• 11:29
  exposed to new ideas, even if it is practical and pragmatic.
• 11:34
  But there, there, I think it's a real need to maintain the diversity of ideas or, or,
• 11:40
  or even the, the respectful disagreement that happens in any community while
• 11:45
  still fostering a a, a kind of unity.
• 11:48
  And where I think the clarity piece comes in is storytelling, like how we tell the
• 11:53
  stories about ourselves and our sector.
• 11:56
  'cause that is an easy way to maintain that diversity.
• 12:00
  I, I'm curious, what do you see as the story of this process?
• 12:04
  Because part of the reason I was really excited to talk to you is
• 12:09
  you've kind of had an insight into how this has been playing out.
• 12:13
  Uh.
• 12:14
  From a real diverse perspective unto yourself.
• 12:17
  Like you, you're coming at this as an individual, but you're also coming
• 12:20
  at this as someone who, who wants to bridge different constituencies,
• 12:24
  who wants to bridge different stakeholders and that's what I'm
• 12:27
  hearing in your language, is a desire.
• 12:30
  To not alienate people, even though they might be in
• 12:33
  disagreement on certain issues.
• 12:35
  How do we maintain that balance?
• 12:37
  On the one hand we've been talking about the balance between the abstract
• 12:40
  and the practical, but how do we maintain the balance between say, the
• 12:45
  large, uh, uh, operator and the tiny operator between the large producer
• 12:50
  and the myriad of small producers?
• 12:52
  'cause that's what excited me is that it really seems like there's
• 12:56
  an appetite all around for.
• 12:58
  Again, you used the word on the same page, which I'm not sure is possible.
• 13:02
  No.
• 13:03
  But in the same boat Right?
• 13:04
  Or in the same system so that we feel a, a, a sense of commonality as Ontarians.
• 13:10
  Yeah.
• 13:10
  In the same boat, for sure.
• 13:12
  I guess one thing that I pull out from what you said is language
• 13:16
  and, and language is the primary way in which we are communicating
• 13:21
  with each other and sharing ideas.
• 13:24
  And so language is really important in terms of, um, embracing new ways
• 13:31
  of expressing ourselves and allowing, allowing that space for people to show up
• 13:38
  and express themselves in different ways.
• 13:41
  And.
• 13:43
  Yeah, it's, I guess where I felt at odd.
• 13:49
  So it's like, oh, I'm using a language and people are looking at me and going, okay.
• 13:54
  So then they say, well, what's the solution?
• 13:57
  And so I was, throwing it out there and, and hearing it echo, but it
• 14:01
  not sort of catching on and then.
• 14:04
  It just takes time and patience sometimes and and then just say,
• 14:08
  well, I don't know what the solution is, but let's have a conversation
• 14:13
  and we can, solve this together.
• 14:16
  Because my solution to it is maybe not fitting to every situation.
• 14:23
  Um, I, you know, my background in rural planning and development, I did a lot
• 14:30
  in terms of of of land use planning, but also in community development.
• 14:35
  And I've worked as an independent consultant working one-on-one and found
• 14:41
  the same thing over and over again in terms of it's really about the mindset
• 14:48
  and so how do we influence the mindset?
• 14:51
  And I think it.
• 14:52
  A more effective with, you know, peer to peers talking to each other
• 14:57
  in, in terms of helping people adapt their mindset and also to do
• 15:05
  it within some community context.
• 15:07
  So there's a, a sort of a communal identity.
• 15:11
  And when you say small producer, large producers, yes.
• 15:14
  That could be one.
• 15:15
  That's just one.
• 15:17
  Level of distinguishing differences, but there's so many levels that people
• 15:21
  have in commonality and in commonality.
• 15:25
  Hopefully we have some part of the future.
• 15:28
  And so, what is it?
• 15:31
  What is it that we want that to look like?
• 15:33
  I have three young.
• 15:36
  Children who have been involved in agriculture would like to continue to
• 15:40
  be involved in agriculture, and I see a great deal of challenges that I was never
• 15:45
  really aware of when I started farming.
• 15:48
  And in being engaged in real communities.
• 15:50
  And so, really, that's one of my driving, my driving force is my driving passion.
• 15:57
  And not to think that it's gonna happen in the next generation.
• 16:00
  It's gonna happen in the next 5, 10, 25 years.
• 16:04
  And I think your point about the mind frame or, or the attitude is essential.
• 16:09
  I think that's exactly it.
• 16:10
  You know, I, I often think of it as a kind of open mind versus the closed mind.
• 16:14
  That the open mind will be prepared for any future versus the closed mind
• 16:19
  will be terrified of all futures.
• 16:21
  But you, your, your point about your kids I think is also why I think it is so
• 16:26
  important, morally responsible, even that we start getting young people in power.
• 16:31
  'cause it is way harder for them.
• 16:33
  Like compared to, you know, myself, I know, let alone my parents, uh,
• 16:37
  we had it tremendously easier than young people do today to get them
• 16:42
  to get on their feet, to get a business, to get a meaningful career.
• 16:46
  So I, I think that has to be, if, if we talk about the future, obviously we,
• 16:49
  we need to be thinking about those most likely to see it and help them with that.
• 16:54
  But you also said something that, that I thought I, I almost want to end with
• 16:58
  and, and, and I've been given your.
• 17:00
  Really hard, hard, uh, curve balls here.
• 17:02
  I this as an interviewer, I really tried to get the most outta my guess.
• 17:05
  And, and Ruth, you're, you're excelling par excellence.
• 17:10
  But patience I think, is really important.
• 17:12
  And, and that was something I thought you really e emphasized.
• 17:16
  Well, and I want to tie that back to curiosity.
• 17:19
  Because it, it strikes me that if we could, uh, within that larger mind frame
• 17:23
  we're trying to cultivate, if we could both nurture curiosity and patience,
• 17:29
  that affords a really excellent process of people who are committed, who are
• 17:35
  engaged, who are imaginative and, and who are willing to see it for the long haul.
• 17:41
  'cause you're right.
• 17:41
  It's not a one and done.
• 17:43
  And one of the provocations I was trying to make is, you know, every
• 17:47
  organization needs to take this process to their membership and make it as
• 17:50
  grassroots as possible so that we involve as many people as possible.
• 17:55
  So here's the billion dollar question.
• 17:58
  How do we frame patients and curiosity?
• 18:01
  H how we do, we kind of, uh, nurture the two of them within this emerging,
• 18:06
  uh, uh, frame of mind that allows th this process to really thrive and
• 18:11
  excel in the way that we think it can.
• 18:14
  Oh, nurturing I think it's, it's, um, this process of creating an
• 18:23
  invitation for people to have dialogue.
• 18:27
  And it's not a, it's not a discussion or debate.
• 18:31
  It's a, it's a dialogue.
• 18:34
  And it, um.
• 18:36
  Is the best way in which we can communicate our ideas.
• 18:40
  So, more and more opportunities for those dialogues to take place within, within an
• 18:47
  organization with between organizations just, creating that container.
• 18:53
  And there are some rules of engagement in terms of patience
• 18:58
  and curiosity and empathy and.
• 19:03
  Yeah, bringing that as a organizational leadership strength.
• 19:08
  So, leadership training in terms of the transformational leadership,
• 19:14
  the whose empathetic who, and I think that's in organizations, when
• 19:20
  you talk about organizations, I think that's a central part of, um.
• 19:26
  Of supporting that type of leadership.
• 19:30
  Yeah.
• 19:30
  Right on.
• 19:31
  Any final thoughts on either the process or where you wanna see it moving forward?
• 19:38
  Oh, I'm, I'm, um, I'm excited.
• 19:41
  And while, there were a few.
• 19:47
  I would say rough spots where I said, you know, people thinking that, one
• 19:52
  that, you know, on the same page or, so, those sorts of things, they're so, uh.
• 19:58
  They're sort of rhetorical within and our organization and we, and
• 20:03
  we just have to say, well, what are our basic assumptions about that?
• 20:06
  What does it really mean?
• 20:08
  And is that really how we wanna operate?
• 20:11
  So I think, uh, when we really question some of those really basic assumptions
• 20:18
  in the way that we've been communicating ideas, I, communicating ideas, I
• 20:22
  think, um, that's important to end.
• 20:26
  I think a lot of that has been sort of handed down in terms of maybe when,
• 20:31
  government, uh, folks are trying to create policy in terms of there are
• 20:37
  patients in terms of there's really diverse ideas and, you know, a mandate
• 20:44
  in terms of how you write it in terms of.
• 20:46
  One piece can't really address all that.
• 20:48
  So we need a different approach to that as well.
• 20:51
  And it, and so I've seen where there's in creating policy.
• 20:58
  We really have a, there's a lot of conversations and there's a
• 21:02
  lot that gets distilled into that as opposed to a few expert ideas.
• 21:08
  And I think that's created policy that is reflective of the civil
• 21:12
  society, of all the different members and the diverse ideas.
• 21:16
  And, and by conversations they people find differences.
• 21:21
  It sounds very optimistic, but, I think it's doable and I think there are other
• 21:27
  cultures who have existed like this and who have gone through very big
• 21:32
  transformations and barring on their knowledge, and that was an important piece
• 21:37
  that I was really quite pleased about, that we had other knowledge keepers who
• 21:43
  came to the table and really had some really essential nuggets to share with us.
• 21:48
  Those are all different.
• 21:50
  Different ideas that I think would be really helpful to bring to the table here.
• 21:55
  Well, and, and to your point about other cultures it strikes me that the ultimate
• 21:59
  mission is to change our own culture so that it's more resilient, so that it's
• 22:04
  more, uh, capable of dealing with the challenges that we face in our future.
• 22:09
  And that's no small task, right?
• 22:11
  That, that, that is a very sort of gradual patient curious process.
• 22:16
  A and I think for me the difference too is the going from a, a system based on
• 22:21
  control to a system based on emergence.
• 22:24
  Yes.
• 22:24
  Where you're just trying to create the right conditions in which the things you
• 22:27
  want emerge rather than try to control things to get what you want to emerge.
• 22:33
  Yeah.
• 22:33
  You know, it takes time.
• 22:34
  That takes a lot, it takes a lot more energy.
• 22:37
  To control and, and keep things within set boundaries.
• 22:42
  Then to emerge and pivot and see where, where challenges
• 22:46
  are actually opportunities.
• 22:48
  Yes.
• 22:50
  That was my conversation with Ruth Knight.
• 22:53
  What stays with me is her insistence that the future isn't something we
• 22:57
  predict so much as something we practice.
• 23:01
  The work begins in mindset, cultivating curiosity instead of fear, patience
• 23:06
  instead of urgency, and a willingness to let go of old assumptions, in
• 23:11
  favor of something more open, more emergent, and ultimately more resilient.
• 23:16
  Ruth reminds us that dialogue is not an accessory to strategy.
• 23:21
  It is the strategy when we create the conditions for people to listen, question,
• 23:26
  imagine and disagree constructively, we strengthen the entire system and when we
• 23:32
  broaden those conversations to include younger generations, small and large
• 23:37
  operators, policy voices, and knowledge keepers from different traditions, we
• 23:42
  begin to build the cultural capacity needed for the next several decades,
• 23:47
  not just the next planning cycle.
• 23:50
  If AgriFood 2050 succeeds, it won't be because we found a single roadmap.
• 23:55
  It'll be because we invested in a culture that can learn together,
• 23:59
  improvise together, and adapt together a culture that moves away
• 24:04
  from control and toward emergence.
• 24:07
  A culture that understands the future as a shared endeavor.
• 24:12
  Thank you for listening.
• 24:13
  If you're part of the AgriFood sector or simply care about the
• 24:17
  food system we all depend on.
• 24:19
  I hope this episode encourages you to bring these conversations into your
• 24:23
  own organizations and communities.
• 24:26
  The future belongs to those who are willing to imagine it and to
• 24:30
  do the slow patient collective work of bringing it into being.
• 24:34
  We'll see you next time.