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Living your values with Dr. Emily Talkington · My Veterinary Life

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Welcome to this week's episode of My Veterinary Life Podcast.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, doctor Annie Chavant, and my pronouns are
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: she her and ourt guest today is doctor Emily Talkington.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Doctor Talkington is an international wildlife conservation veterinarian, a small
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: animal relief veterinarian, and a passionate animal welfare advocate. She
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: also holds a master's in veterinary epidemiology and a master's
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: in Animal Law. I am so excited to share doctor
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Talkington's story with you today, but before we do, I
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: want to get a thank you to our podcast partner,
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: NVA General Practice. NBA helps great vets become even greater
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: with multiple paths to build a career that's uniquely yours.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Lead a team, explore a specialty, own a practice, or
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: shape care across their network of over nine hundred neighborhood clinics.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Wherever you want to go next, NBA has a path
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: to help you get there. Visit careers dot com NBA
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: dot com to find your next role. And with that,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: welcome to the show, doctor Talkington.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: I'm really excited about talking with you today. Yeah.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Same and so let's jump right into it and start
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: with the introductory question of how did you first become
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: interested in veterinary medicine.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, so I first became interested at a very young age,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: maybe like many of us knew. At the age of five,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: there was a little bird that flew up against my
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: family's living room window, and unfortunately she didn't realize that
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: it was a window, and she kind of crashed down
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: to the ground. And I remember running out there and
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  Speaker 1: just you know, putting the little bird it was a
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  Speaker 1: little house barrow on my hand, and just feeling so powerless,
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  Speaker 1: and I really wanted to help her, and I vowed
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  Speaker 1: that day that I would learn how to care for
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: and help animals, and especially those animals without their own
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  Speaker 1: advocates or owners. And so it was it was that
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  Speaker 1: point in time that I knew. So I was really
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  Speaker 1: quite lucky.
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  Speaker 3: Oh amazing.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, you're correct that we do hear frequently about
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  Speaker 2: we call them early identifiers on the podcast. But everybody
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: has their own unique story, and I like that you
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: emphasized the pull to help those animals who could not
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: otherwise advocate for themselves, and we will see that play
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  Speaker 2: out manyfold in the remainder of your career story. So
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  Speaker 2: you pursued that initial childhood dream you got into that school,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: So what was your plan after graduation? Did you know
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: that you wanted to work internationally going into that school?
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  Speaker 2: Was wildlife and interest? Were you thinking small animal or
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  Speaker 2: how did that sort of career trajectory play out?
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  Speaker 1: Yes, I was really wanted to be something very specific.
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  Speaker 1: I wanted to be a traveling wildlife conservation veterinarian. And
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  Speaker 1: that was because my parents would travel and come back
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: and tell me their stories of exotic places, and so
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  Speaker 1: it was very early on where I said, yep, traveling.
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  Speaker 1: I want to move around to different centers and go
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  Speaker 1: from there.
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  Speaker 3: Very cool.
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  Speaker 2: You're right, that's very specific, and I feel like we
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  Speaker 2: hear all kinds of stories of I just knew I
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  Speaker 2: wanted to be a veterinarian.
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  Speaker 3: I was going to figure out the rest on the way,
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  Speaker 3: or always known that I wanted.
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  Speaker 2: To be this specific type of veterinarian. So what did
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  Speaker 2: that path look like for you after graduation? And how
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  Speaker 2: did you find your first job out?
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  Speaker 1: So after graduating from VET school, I interned with the
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  Speaker 1: Bronx Zoo with the Wildlife Conservation Society based out of
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: New York City, and again that experience really cemented my
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  Speaker 1: enjoyment of working around wild animals, and especially those without
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  Speaker 1: their own advocates or owners. And after I interned, I
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  Speaker 1: then decided that I would not go onto a residency,
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  Speaker 1: but rather decided to go back into companion animal medicine
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  Speaker 1: order to get a really full and thorough foundation of
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  Speaker 1: what I would be utilizing for the next twenty years
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  Speaker 1: as part of my work.
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  Speaker 2: That makes a lot of sense, So I'm glad you're
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  Speaker 2: able to confirm your interests and then also intentionally develop
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  Speaker 2: those skills that Compandian animal practice is so valuable of
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  Speaker 2: developing those clinical and diagnostic muscles that you can apply
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  Speaker 2: in many different environments while still maintaining that passion for
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  Speaker 2: international work.
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  Speaker 3: So you were able to go on after.
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  Speaker 2: That back to your dream, back to working internationally, And
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  Speaker 2: I'd love to hear a little bit about that time.
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  Speaker 2: Do you have some favorite memories or maybe top lessons
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  Speaker 2: from working with animals in different cultures?
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  Speaker 1: Sure, so, I would say so. My first job working
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  Speaker 1: with wildlife full time was after I'd worked in GP
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  Speaker 1: urgent care and er for my first three years, and
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  Speaker 1: so my first job was working in a sanctuary and Cameroon,
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  Speaker 1: and you know, I think it's both working with people
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  Speaker 1: and learning how to work with different cultures and with
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  Speaker 1: the animals themselves. So what I first learned was how
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  Speaker 1: to be open and how to be compassionate about where
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  Speaker 1: other people are coming from, and how to have empathy
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  Speaker 1: for others, and also not to be judgmental, and to
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  Speaker 1: be creative about how we're going to work in a
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  Speaker 1: place that you never maybe thought that you might be in.
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  Speaker 1: And so many of these places don't have what we have,
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  Speaker 1: say in our western world with a large pharmacy, maybe
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  Speaker 1: there's three different things that we can choose from, and
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  Speaker 1: with those three things, we can do a lot. And
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  Speaker 1: so it was being creative and being curious about not
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  Speaker 1: only what can we do in order to help the animals,
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  Speaker 1: but also being curious about how to work with others
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  Speaker 1: who might have different ideas about doing things. As an example,
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  Speaker 1: so there was a monkey that I was working with
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  Speaker 1: and we really were having a hard time medicating her.
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  Speaker 1: She had a little injury on her on her finger,
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  Speaker 1: and so I just I had clueless. I knew what
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  Speaker 1: antibiotic to use, and so the local staff and the
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  Speaker 1: local veterinary staff knows their animals extremely well and they
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  Speaker 1: know how to medicate. And so we said, okay, doctor
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  Speaker 1: talking to and this is what we do here. This
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  Speaker 1: is this monkey's favorite leaf. We go out into the
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  Speaker 1: village area, we find the tree with this particular leaf
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  Speaker 1: that this monkey likes. It has some medicinal properties to it.
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  Speaker 1: And the way that she'll take it is crushing up
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  Speaker 1: the pill and mixing it in honey and then rolling
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  Speaker 1: it up into a little like a little tortilla type thing.
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  Speaker 1: And so that would make this you know, this particular
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  Speaker 1: monkey very curious and it worked beautifully. So I learned
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  Speaker 1: that collaboration with others is really key and critical and
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  Speaker 1: not coming in with a superiority complex that is actually
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  Speaker 1: detrimental to working in all, I would say, coming in
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  Speaker 1: with a very collaborative spirit. What can I learn from you?
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  Speaker 1: What can I learn from you? Oh? I can teach
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  Speaker 1: you this? Can you teach me this? And being very
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  Speaker 1: balanced about working together.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, such a.
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  Speaker 2: Great visual to back up the lesson learned with the
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  Speaker 2: monkey and the leaf tortilla, Because I think that compliance
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  Speaker 2: component of collaboration is especially important. Like we can know
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  Speaker 2: all day what drug treats the particular disease, but if
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  Speaker 2: the drug is not getting into the animal, it's zero
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  Speaker 2: percent effective. And I think that's especially where those collaborations,
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  Speaker 2: cultural sensitivities and just understanding that we might be the
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  Speaker 2: expert in one area, but other members of the animal
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  Speaker 2: care team might be experts in others that are equally
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  Speaker 2: as important. Is so so key, and so I love
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  Speaker 2: hearing that story and bringing that to the top of
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  Speaker 2: our minds today as we can walk through your career.
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  Speaker 2: So that was your first formative experience with international medicine.
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  Speaker 2: I'm curious as to how your experiences evolved after that.
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  Speaker 2: How often were you changing locations, what drove those changes,
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  Speaker 2: and what do you remember from that experience the most.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I would stay in one sanctuary or rescue
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  Speaker 1: and rehabilitation facility for anywhere from three to six months.
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  Speaker 1: It's a very small world, the wildlife conservation world, and
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  Speaker 1: so we all kind of know each other and network,
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  Speaker 1: and so other sanctuaries would hear, oh, doctor Togkinden can
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  Speaker 1: work with a chimpanzee. Oh she can work with a gorilla. Okay, okay,
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  Speaker 1: let's bring her on over. And so I would move
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  Speaker 1: around anywhere from one month at a sanctuary to six months,
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  Speaker 1: depending on what their needs are. And so I would
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  Speaker 1: go and we would train and mentor and work together
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  Speaker 1: and do health exams of the animals and work on
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  Speaker 1: particular projects like building laboratories and working on research together
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  Speaker 1: and that type of thing. So I am a really
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  Speaker 1: curious person, so I would be very happy to go
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  Speaker 1: to another center and learn more at that particular place,
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  Speaker 1: and with a variety of other species as well. So
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  Speaker 1: I worked with cobras in India, and I taught elephant
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  Speaker 1: medicine in Lao, and I worked with orangutan babies and borneo.
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  Speaker 1: Just a wide variety of species and different places. So
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  Speaker 1: it was my own desire to keep learning and to
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  Speaker 1: keep going into different places where I could help and
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  Speaker 1: where they could help me as well.
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  Speaker 3: That makes perfect sense.
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  Speaker 2: I think you really embodied that sense of networking that
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  Speaker 2: we talk about of going to where there's needs, meeting
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  Speaker 2: people who are interested in the same thing that you are,
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  Speaker 2: and being open to new experiences. And wow, what an
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  Speaker 2: amazing list of places that you can say you've lived in,
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  Speaker 2: worked in, and experienced.
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  Speaker 3: So do you have a favorite patient from your time
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  Speaker 3: traveling internationally. Well, I do.
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  Speaker 1: But actually one of my favorite patients lived in the
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  Speaker 1: United States. I don't know if any of you have
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  Speaker 1: heard about the gorilla who was taught how to use
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  Speaker 1: sign language. I was introduced to this particular individual and
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  Speaker 1: they contacted me and said, we know you've just returned
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  Speaker 1: from your latest trip from Africa, and you specialize in apes,
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  Speaker 1: in great apes, and I do. Those are my favorites.
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  Speaker 1: And so this particular individual had not been feeling well.
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  Speaker 1: This gorilla I remember meeting her for the first time.
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  Speaker 1: She was sitting behind a little partition and I sat
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  Speaker 1: down right across from her, and she had kind of
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  Speaker 1: translators of her caretakers understood, and you know, I sat
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  Speaker 1: down and I said, Coco, it's really nice to meet you.
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  Speaker 1: And I said, how are you feeling. I'm doctor Emily
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  Speaker 1: talking to him, and I heard, you're not feeling so well.
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  Speaker 1: She said, well, actually, when my teeth is hurting, And
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  Speaker 1: I said which one, and she actually used her really
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  Speaker 1: long gorilla finger. She pointed to a molar in the
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: back of her mouth and she said, this one's really
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  Speaker 1: this one is hurting. Said okay, all right, thank you
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  Speaker 1: for letting me know, and I said anything else, and
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  Speaker 1: there was a picture of her on a wall, and
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  Speaker 1: she said yes, and she pointed to her stomach, and
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  Speaker 1: sure enough we ended up doing a full thorough anesthetize
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  Speaker 1: exam of cocoa, and sure enough that molar that she
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  Speaker 1: had pointed to had infected too through abscess, and the
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  Speaker 1: stomach that she was pointing to, in fact, she had
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  Speaker 1: eaten a ball probably a year or so before, and
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: a portion of the ball was stuck in her pylorus.
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  Speaker 1: And so it was really fascinating experience, a very memorable experience.
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  Speaker 1: Just the idea that I could potentially ask another animal
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  Speaker 1: how they're feeling really made me respect our work so
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  Speaker 1: much more, because as veterinarians, we can't ask our patients
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  Speaker 1: usually how they're feeling. Right, it's all by our examinations,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: and it's by our history taking. It's by asking the owners,
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  Speaker 1: what have you noticed about your pet? And so it
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: gave me a newfound respect for our work as veterinarians,
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  Speaker 1: and also a fascination with what the intelligence of other
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  Speaker 1: animals and how much we don't know.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, fascinating was the first word that came to mind
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  Speaker 2: when you were describing that experience. It's a really really
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  Speaker 2: cool place to be that not very many veterinarians get
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  Speaker 2: to experience.
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  Speaker 3: So I'm really really happy for you.
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  Speaker 2: I think that also goes back to your passion for
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: one health and thinking about how things are always connected.
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  Speaker 1: And I do want to move us into.
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  Speaker 2: Another facet of your career, now, shall we say, because
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  Speaker 2: not only are you interested in international wildlife and conservation,
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  Speaker 2: but you also pursued a master's in animal law. I'd
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: be curious in a little bit of compare contrasts, and
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: then I'd love to learn a little bit more about
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: animal law in general.
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  Speaker 1: If you could educate us. Sure. So the animal law
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  Speaker 1: master's program I did was online. It was a year
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  Speaker 1: and a half and I was the only veterinarian the
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: first time that it was offered. So I said, yep,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: I'm all about it. I'm very curious about this. And
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: so it was maybe a handful of scientists and the
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: rest were attorneys that were specializing in animal law. You
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: know the differences between in animal law education and VetMed.
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  Speaker 1: We were going through cases almost from day one. We
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: are going through the theory, but we're also talking about
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  Speaker 1: critical thinking about how we think about things and the
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: critical ideas. It's almost like how we go through our
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: soaps and go through our differentials and go, oh, we
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: really bring in all of our knowledge into this and
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: then come out with our final plan. And it's almost
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  Speaker 1: like when we learn about the cases, we're also bringing
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  Speaker 1: in everybody's different perspective and the understanding that we can
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: all treat a case differently and it still turn out well.
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  Speaker 1: So that was something that I experienced there, early communication
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  Speaker 1: with others who may have differing opinions and being okay
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  Speaker 1: with differing opinions, and also learning how to communicate with
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  Speaker 1: others with potentially very different perspectives than you might have,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: and really learning to drop the ego a little bit
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  Speaker 1: and saying, yep, I think you're right there. You know,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: we need to work on things there. So it's a
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  Speaker 1: little different. It was a very humbling experience and it
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: was a challenge. I was the first veterinarian in the
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: US to go through the program, and so we learned
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  Speaker 1: a lot is a group.
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  Speaker 2: I love that you highlighted the sort of intricacies and
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  Speaker 2: emphasis on communication in that program, and I think more
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  Speaker 2: and more we're seeing in the veterinary school curriculum the
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  Speaker 2: client communication and how important that is. It sounds like
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: to me almost you focus more on how to respectfully disagree,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: how to be open to other opinions, and really with
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: that underlying truth of there are many ways to have
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  Speaker 2: a successful outcome, So let's learn from each other and
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  Speaker 2: the varied experiences. And so I think that's so so
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  Speaker 2: important that something that we touch on. But I think
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  Speaker 2: the fact that it was emphasized, or at least that
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: it was emphasizing your experience is really cool, and I
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: feel like absolutely dovetails nicely with your ventery medical training.
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  Speaker 1: With that. One of the main reasons why I decided
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: to go into animal law or to learn more about
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: it was all of my experiences that I had internationally
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  Speaker 1: and at home, and with the main one being the
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: illegal wildlife trade and trafficking industry that's so rampant and
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: so yes, I was working hand in hand with many
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  Speaker 1: endangered species overseas, with many monkeys and apes and birds
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: and African gray parrots and a wide variety of species
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  Speaker 1: that are trafficked unfortunately all over the world. So as
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: part of that, just to give you an idea, over
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  Speaker 1: ninety million animals are trafficked into the United States every year,
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  Speaker 1: and thirty percent of those are directly coming from the wild.
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  Speaker 1: And so, although I love working hand in hand with
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  Speaker 1: with some of these species, I saw that there could
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: be that there was a gap in their protections and
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  Speaker 1: I really wanted to affect change on a different scale,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: on a different level than I had been, and so
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  Speaker 1: I saw my opportunity with the animal law program.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm out of your perspective was so valuable there,
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  Speaker 2: And so what did the next steps look like for you? You've
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: got your master's, you had your veterinary degree, So how
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: are you working at the intersection between those two?
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah? So how I find that animal law and veterinary
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: medicine intersex is in a variety of ways, And one
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  Speaker 1: of them is communicating with your local legislators or in
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  Speaker 1: city councils on a wide variety of topics. The ones
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: that I'm most passionate about revolve around the illegal wildlife
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: and trade trafficking industry and the exotic pet industry. And
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: the other ways are going into the state capitol and lobbying.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: For instance, I was just there and I was lobbing
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: regarding the indiscriminate killing of coyotes so it's not just
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: one animal, but it's large populations of animals. And I
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: have to be honest. I was terrified. And although I
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: had practiced all my communication skills and I'd been a
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: vet for many years, I was still terrified. And it's
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: okay to be terrified. And you know, I went back
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: to my why why did I go into vet school?
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Why am I a veterinarian? Why did I decide this path?
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: And I pushed through it and I went, oh, that's right.
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  Speaker 1: It was that little bird when I was five years old,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: and it was all of those chimpanzees, and it was
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: all the monkeys in Africa and Asia. It was all
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: of those that I remembered. Veterinarians, we are the experts
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: in animal health and their well being. I'm staying true
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  Speaker 1: to my oath, and I'm here and I'm standing strong,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: and I will speak up for them. And so I
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: was able to express their needs from a science point
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: of view and talk to them about their reproductive biology
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: and the reasons for why indiscriminate killing is not a
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: great way forward for them in that particular region in
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Northern California. I'm also very busy writing op ed pieces
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: and articles in national media outlets, interviewed by National Geographic
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: on some of my work overseas where I'm able to
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: talk to them about the issues that animals are facing
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: in the wildlife industry. I have most recently been working
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: with the American Bar Association on the Animal Law Committee,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: where we are helping to assist federal legislation regarding commercial
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: breeding facilities and poppy mills. And I also work in
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: collaboration with Physicians Committee a Responsible Medicine on working towards
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: not using in dangerous species and other wildlife in research laboratories.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: And thankfully the FDA and the NIIGHT are behind us,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: and I really want to see that as well, and
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: for us to start using higher tech modalities such as
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: organs on a chip and tissues on a chip versus
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: having wild animals being flown over from other countries for
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: us to use in our research laboratories. I'm also working
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: in veterinary medical schools as well and working on the
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: collaborations between law schools and veterinary medical schools so we
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: could really start working together instead of on separate sides.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: I think we're with us and our veterinary medical degree.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: It's an extremely powerful tool for advocacy, and they're really
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: missing our voices in some of these places. So that's
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: what I've been working on.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you certainly.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Stay busy and filling your cup up in many different ways.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: And I love that you have taken on the initiative
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: to be in the spaces where you feel a veterinarian's
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: voice is needed but have not necessarily been in the past,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: and calling on that. Why to give you the strength
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: to do that, Because it is intimidating to trail blaze
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: and to be the first, but somebody has to be there,
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: and if it's important enough to you, you make it
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: a priority. You find the strength and you've modeled that
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: for us beautifully here. And I love that you have
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: approached your passion in many different arenas as well. Right
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: you were lobbying, you are working with the Bar Association.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: You've found these different kind of volunteer opportunities and opportunities
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: in addition to your relief work to be able to
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: stay true to the things that really really matter to you.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: And I find that so so powerful when folks are
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: able to marry the different things that they love in
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: this profession. And I would add into the professions that
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: are adjacent to ours, that are really important to recognize
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: and to collaborate with so that we can achieve our
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: common goals.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: So I just really appreciate.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Hearing that wide variety of what is that that you
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: stay occupied these days?
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: Thank you, And so as we wrap up our time
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: together sadly, doctor Talkington, I want to ask one reflection question.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: We could choose from many, but what is one thing
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: you hope our listeners can take away from your career
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: story today?
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: The main one is, I think just reflecting on your
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: own values and ethical belief system and living in alignment
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: with that. I say that from experience and the understanding
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: that when we do live in alignment, when we do
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: step up or speak up for something that we know
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: is not right, that actually decreases our moral injury. And
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: as part of our work as veterinarians, we all know
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: that that can be a problem. And so when we
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: are in spaces and when we do say things that
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: need to be said that haven't been said, it really
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: is helpful for our own mental health. It gives us power,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: it gives us confidence, and we're using what our education
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: actually gave us to do, using our critical skills and
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: our knowledge and our empathy and our compassion. Another thing
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: that Annie mentioned is the idea that we can do
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: a wide variety of things with our degree. We're not
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: always stuck in one pathway. So again, I couldn't decide,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: and so that's why I've tried a wide variety of
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: different pathways and that's okay. Actually it's been really great.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: So if you find yourself in one place and vet
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: med that you're not really happy with, try another one.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: There's always going to be another one that you could try.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: And so that's the joy of our profession.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, such great things to be thinking about.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: And I'm glad that you did not shy away from
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: talking about the moral dilemmas or the ethical component of
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: our jobs, because that is a real challenge that we
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: face sometimes on a daily basis.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: But that you you've.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Found and you know that speaking up for the things
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: you believe in and living in alignment with your core
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: values actually improves your mental health and gives you that
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: sense of purpose.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: And it's important.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: To do the reflecting to know what those things are
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: and do the hard work to live in that alignment.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: And so I'm really glad that you like I said,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: did not shy away from that topic and also reminded
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: us of the many fantastic ways that we can contribute
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: to veterinary medicine. There's no one right way, and just
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: like you learned in your master's program that there are
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: many ways to approach a case or there are many
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: positive outcomes, same thing, there are many positive outcomes in
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: our profession and there's a place for everyone. And so
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: doctor talking to Emily, I so enjoyed our conversation and
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: getting to know you a little bit better, and I'm
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: confident our listeners will to thank you so much for
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: sharing your time and sharing your stories with us today.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I really loved being here and
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: talking with you today about it. If anybody interested, please
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: find me on LinkedIn. I'm doctor Emily Talkington. That would
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: be wonderful. I'm currently creating a website and newsletter for
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: veterinary students and new veterinarians who may be interested in
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: advocacy work and connecting and communicating with each other and
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: just having a hub where we could come together and
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: chat about things. So you're welcome to join that.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much, fantastic and thank you to each
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: of you for joining us on this episode of My
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: Veterinary Life podcast.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: We love sharing this journey with you, and remember, we
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: want to hear from you, so please be sure to
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: leave us.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: A reading and review on Apple Podcasts or whatever.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Platform you listen to, and you can also email me
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: at MVL podcast at ABMA dot org.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Take care and we'll see you next time.