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Governor Stein's State of the State Address · The SEANC View

• 0:00
  Music.
• 0:10
  Hello, and welcome to another edition of the Scenic View podcast.
• 0:13
  I'm Jonathan Owens, your host slash communications director here at Scenic.
• 0:17
  I'm joined today by Suzanne Beasley, government relations director.
• 0:22
  I tried to say it all at once before I took a breath, and I failed again.
• 0:26
  And Artis Watkins, our executive director.
• 0:30
  And Sam Klein, the podcast producer slash communications specialist.
• 0:35
  It is a lot to get into a breath. It's just, I think I can only handle like
• 0:39
  five words at a time, like in a row.
• 0:42
  Remember the Micro Machines commercial where the guy spoke like really fast?
• 0:45
  Anyway, that was a tangent.
• 0:47
  Our first tangent, 30 seconds in. Buckle up, people.
• 0:50
  How are y'all today? What's going on? Well, first, let's say when this is.
• 0:54
  It's Thursday, March 12th? 13th.
• 0:57
  13th. That we're recording. During the ACC tournament. Yes.
• 1:01
  I can only assume the Tar Heels will sweep this tournament. If you're really
• 1:05
  interested, it's around one o'clock and Duke and Georgia Tech are in a halftime
• 1:09
  and Georgia Tech's actually leading.
• 1:10
  So we've got to cut this short so I can get back to the final here.
• 1:15
  We'll be efficient today, folks. So it was a very busy weekend again.
• 1:19
  Last night, Governor Josh Stein delivered his first state of the state address.
• 1:24
  And from all the text that I saw flying around and the tweets that I was reading,
• 1:28
  you guys had some thoughts on that address.
• 1:30
  So what stuck out to you? Well, I mean, Governor Stein came out the gate strong,
• 1:34
  talking about Western North Carolina and, you know, the strength of North Carolinians
• 1:38
  in general, but especially those people out West. And that was well received.
• 1:43
  And then he did the right thing and said the General Assembly should put more
• 1:47
  money into teacher pay. In fact, strive to be the best in the Southeast.
• 1:50
  That's a great message. He recognized law enforcement and included correctional
• 1:54
  officers. Yeah, that was huge. In that great message.
• 1:57
  Nothing else about public employees. There was a mention of universities and
• 2:01
  community colleges generally needing more money, but nothing about public workers.
• 2:05
  That's disappointing. That's disappointing. Yeah, it's not okay.
• 2:08
  And I understand that next week his budget may come out, right? We've heard it may.
• 2:12
  We've heard it may. I heard some chatter in the building today.
• 2:14
  So are you all afraid that there's a correlation there?
• 2:17
  One would think. I mean, if you're saying out loud in your most important speech
• 2:22
  you give in an entire year's time what your priorities are, and you don't mention
• 2:25
  the people, then I would imagine the people are probably not going to be in
• 2:28
  that document in the way they need to be and should be.
• 2:31
  And frankly, it's a crisis. The state vacancy rate is averaging around 20% at
• 2:36
  this point, which is still a crisis.
• 2:39
  And we have, obviously, we do have the pockets in prisons where it's over 60%
• 2:43
  in some cases of vacant positions compared to full.
• 2:46
  But it's a problem that taxpayers don't have the full amount of services,
• 2:50
  but it's also a problem that employees for years now, this is drug on for at
• 2:54
  least three years of these vacancy rates.
• 2:56
  And that means the people left are carrying a much bigger burden all the time
• 3:01
  and it never gets better.
• 3:02
  There was some talk today in the legislature about, well, maybe if they had
• 3:06
  some more time off, we just looked at each other.
• 3:08
  The first reaction is, when are they going to take that time off?
• 3:11
  They already can't take what they got.
• 3:13
  I was going to say, I don't think, but I do know there is not an awareness in
• 3:17
  the legislature about just how bad it is in some agencies.
• 3:20
  And I'm sure agencies don't really relish coming forward and saying,
• 3:24
  we've got situations where we have to tell people you can't leave because there's
• 3:27
  no one else. As often happens on this podcast.
• 3:30
  We're kind of melding all our topics together, but maybe that's a thing.
• 3:34
  Well, they are woven. Yeah.
• 3:35
  We'll get more into the meeting that I just mentioned in a minute.
• 3:38
  But at the end of the day, everybody's trying to figure out,
• 3:41
  well, what do we do about this vacancy crisis?
• 3:43
  And Governor Stein, you know, we're big supporters of Governor Stein around here.
• 3:47
  But we would be completely remiss on behalf of our members, but frankly,
• 3:51
  on behalf of everybody, all the taxpayers, not to point out you can't leave
• 3:55
  the mention of state employees and retirees out of that speech.
• 3:58
  And not have it affect everybody because, my goodness, like you said,
• 4:03
  I think I said to y'all last night that infrastructure, good infrastructure
• 4:06
  is what brings people to North Carolina.
• 4:08
  That is why we're strong. And we're strong because state employees have built
• 4:11
  that infrastructure here in our state. Yeah.
• 4:13
  And we just went over with Representative Torbett when he was here last week
• 4:16
  and we were talking generally about waste fraud and efficiencies and things people will look at.
• 4:21
  And one of the biggest things we do as a state is we throw all this money out
• 4:25
  and incentives to companies to come here.
• 4:27
  We've spent well over $100 million just here recently and created less than 100,000 jobs.
• 4:34
  We could have just written everybody a massive check and save the trouble.
• 4:38
  So that's not paying off, but yet you won't invest in your workforce properly.
• 4:42
  Priorities have to get aligned here because who saves the day when there is a crisis?
• 4:48
  Yes, in Helene, it was so huge and it involves such hard-to-get-to territory
• 4:54
  that government alone was not able to provide quickly enough the full response.
• 4:58
  And so a number of charities and a number of private companies said,
• 5:02
  hey, you can have every resource I have. We're going to help you.
• 5:05
  And that's awesome. But at the end of the day, the fact that Helene was addressed
• 5:09
  so beautifully in Governor Stein's speech, but the people pulling bodies out of the debris,
• 5:14
  clear the roads, fix them so other people could get vital things to these communities.
• 5:19
  Those people weren't recognized. That's a big deal.
• 5:22
  Those are North Carolina DOT workers who are absolutely not trained to do things
• 5:26
  like pull bodies out of debris.
• 5:27
  So traumatic, so many traumatic experiences out West, but, you know,
• 5:31
  maybe even just a little more on top of that by not being remembered.
• 5:34
  Yeah. So I'm sending a letter to the governor today saying your budget's about
• 5:39
  to come out and we do want to talk based on the remarks. We definitely want
• 5:42
  to talk about where we stand in this.
• 5:44
  And historically, we have that meeting, you know, with the governor before his budget's released.
• 5:49
  So we'll look forward to that same. And today wasn't the first time we asked
• 5:53
  or anything, but I think it makes the obvious need to talk a little more urgent.
• 5:57
  And you said that not only did we notice that, but also members of the media
• 6:02
  mentioned that as well, that it wasn't mentioned.
• 6:04
  On the WRAL coverage, literally just after Governor Stein finished speaking
• 6:09
  last night, yes, I think it was Colin Campbell who said, yeah,
• 6:13
  you know, it's as notable what wasn't mentioned as what was.
• 6:16
  And he specifically said there was a mention of teacher pay,
• 6:20
  but not state employee pay.
• 6:21
  And that he was wondering, is that a big sign of maybe a major difference?
• 6:26
  Well, and you know, everybody, as rightfully, we should have addressed Helene
• 6:29
  and should continue to address the needs of those people out West.
• 6:32
  But the things that were still a problem before the hurricane came through and
• 6:37
  demolished half of our state are still there.
• 6:40
  The vacancy rates, the pay, the benefits being chipped away at,
• 6:44
  all of that is still there. So...
• 6:46
  I don't know that he would get into the weeds like this in a speech,
• 6:50
  or any governor would, but was there any mention of the state health plan and
• 6:53
  the premium increases at all?
• 6:55
  There was no mention of health care being wildly unaffordable.
• 6:59
  We've talked a number of times on this podcast, and the legislature's talked
• 7:03
  a lot this year about the fact that North Carolina's been ranked consistently
• 7:08
  for the last few years as the number one most expensive place for a citizen to go get health care.
• 7:13
  And the state health plan, we think, contributes greatly to that high cost because
• 7:17
  it's secret contracts that are overpriced.
• 7:19
  But no, there wasn't even a mention of how unaffordable health care was.
• 7:24
  Now, that did surprise me because Governor Stein, when he was Senator Stein,
• 7:29
  was very concerned about working people and what was burdening working people.
• 7:34
  And economists will tell you, well, first of all, the leading cause of bankruptcy
• 7:37
  in this state is still health care.
• 7:39
  But secondly, health care is the biggest suppressor of wages that there is.
• 7:43
  If we're the most expensive place in this country for health care as a state,
• 7:47
  and we are, then we're the most expensive place in the world for health care.
• 7:50
  And I just feel like the state of the state is that we're struggling to pay for our health care.
• 7:55
  And that's keeping our wages down and that's keeping our small employers barely
• 8:00
  making it. Yeah, I was kind of shocked.
• 8:02
  It wasn't seems like that would be top of the list, you know,
• 8:05
  or among the list for a lot of people. Yeah.
• 8:07
  And then today there was a meeting with Stacey Meyer, who is the OSHR director.
• 8:13
  What was that meeting? So that was the House Government Oversight Committee.
• 8:17
  And yeah, so they've been hearing from agency heads the past couple of meetings.
• 8:21
  Today, we heard from OSHR Director Stacey Meyer. That's Office of State Human Resources. Yeah.
• 8:26
  We talk about these acronyms so much, we forget. We live in a bubble.
• 8:29
  Sorry, y'all. Office of State Human Resources Director Stacey Meyer.
• 8:33
  Good presentation. I thought the committee asked good questions, but...
• 8:37
  Feel like it was pretty clear that there's a disconnect of what's really happening
• 8:42
  on the ground with employees and what they need to do to address. On whose part?
• 8:47
  There's a disconnect between lawmakers and our working people.
• 8:51
  There's a disconnect with the decisions that they make and how they affect the
• 8:55
  working people as far as pay.
• 8:57
  Yeah, they seem genuinely stumped over why people are leaving.
• 9:02
  Yeah. And someone, I forget which legislator, but it was a good question about turnover.
• 9:06
  He made the point that turnover is incredibly expensive. It is.
• 9:10
  So that did lead into some conversation about retention, which led into pay.
• 9:14
  So again, all those issues that still exist are still there and still need attention.
• 9:18
  But I really like Director Meyer.
• 9:20
  Yeah, Director Meyer did an amazing job. That didn't surprise anybody.
• 9:24
  She is a veteran of state government, over 30 years of experience.
• 9:27
  She's been a cabinet member before. She's done it all. So she definitely knows
• 9:31
  where the problems are, and there are many.
• 9:33
  And she indicated she intends to modernize the State Human Resources Act.
• 9:39
  She said that was written when she was four years old.
• 9:41
  I thought that was... Well, it went through a pretty big change when McCrory
• 9:44
  came in. Well, it changed the name pretty much.
• 9:47
  Well, it was supposed to go through a huge change with McCrory,
• 9:51
  but the problem is, well, we stood in the way of that because it didn't actually modernize. It tried.
• 10:05
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:10
  And Stacey Meyer, having spent an entire career there, knows every place that
• 10:14
  this system's broken, that we can't get people hired in a reasonable amount
• 10:17
  of time because of the system itself, that nobody's going to hang around for
• 10:21
  180 days waiting to know if they got a job.
• 10:23
  As an aside, and we can take this out if it's stupid, but every time you say
• 10:27
  something about, oh, we gumming up the works or stopping some legislation,
• 10:31
  I always think of Scooby-Doo and the, I would have gotten away with it if it
• 10:36
  weren't for you meddling kids.
• 10:38
  You meddling kids. I feel like we're stopping the...
• 10:41
  Well, I got to tell you, you know, when Governor McCrory wanted to do that with
• 10:46
  the State Personnel Act at the time and completely rewrite it,
• 10:50
  but in not efficiency ways, just kind of taking all the rights from folks.
• 10:55
  It was a different time in ways. And there was such amazing legal staff in Senator
• 10:59
  Berger's office and in Speaker Moore's office that we were able to work hand
• 11:03
  in hand, actually, with them to say, ooh, this is not advisable.
• 11:08
  And that's the goal. You always want to be able to communicate with, especially the staff.
• 11:12
  You know, the staff will help stop badly. Well, you mentioned some confusion.
• 11:17
  And, you know, I think we've seen a lot of places and people not understand
• 11:22
  our issues as well as they should, even on some news programs. Right.
• 11:26
  Public perception is, I mean, of state employees, public perception is not,
• 11:30
  I don't know that it's anything, to be quite honest with you.
• 11:33
  And a lot of times their perception is not positive. So, yeah.
• 11:37
  And then a lot of times they just don't know that whatever services they're
• 11:40
  receiving are provided by state employees. Sometimes there's that disconnect
• 11:43
  with the general public.
• 11:44
  So I just wanted to say that we're always here. If you don't understand our
• 11:48
  issues, give us a call. You know, artists would love to be on your TV show.
• 11:52
  Consider us a resource. Yeah, I've noticed. I know what you're talking about,
• 11:56
  because I have seen on some of the specific to North Carolina political shows,
• 12:01
  there's been some people holding forth about things that in some cases don't
• 12:05
  understand who runs what and who funds what.
• 12:08
  So they'll think the legislature runs the health plan, for instance,
• 12:11
  or that the retirement system, that those decisions are going to purely affect
• 12:15
  taxpayer money with no mention nor recognition, it seems,
• 12:20
  that what's really kept the retirement plan kicking all these years is that
• 12:24
  employees put 6% of their salary in every month without ever failing,
• 12:28
  whereas the legislature at times put literally nothing in. They're doing great now.
• 12:32
  They're putting very generous amounts in right now. But look, we remember.
• 12:36
  Yeah. Not our first rodeo. Well, anything else happen at the legislature this
• 12:39
  week? Anything to talk about?
• 12:41
  So House Bill 92, which is the crypto slash Bitcoin slash ETF. ETF.
• 12:46
  Yeah, that. So it was briefly on
• 12:49
  the calendar to be heard in pensions and retirement yesterday, Wednesday.
• 12:52
  And it wasn't long before it was removed from the calendar. Oh, really?
• 12:56
  Okay. There were some absences this week. It is spring break week.
• 13:00
  So not sure what's going on.
• 13:01
  We did hear there were some changes that were going to be made to the bill. So stay tuned.
• 13:05
  We'll keep you posted. And not to harp on that bill too much,
• 13:08
  because we did spend a lot of time on it a few episodes in a row,
• 13:12
  but I did send you guys a tweet about it's lost 30% of its value since January.
• 13:17
  And that's not a good time to bring up a bill like this, it seems like, right? Right.
• 13:21
  It's my understanding the treasurer can put money in crypto right now if he wants to.
• 13:26
  He can put a certain amount in high risk asset classes.
• 13:29
  And this would be certainly a high risk asset class.
• 13:33
  Again, it's my understanding he can do that right now. He doesn't need special legislation.
• 13:38
  So that's where the rub for us is over.
• 13:42
  Saying any treasurer can put up to 10%, everybody says, well,
• 13:46
  that by no means means that the treasurer will or is instructed to put 10%.
• 13:51
  Yeah, it sounds like an instruction.
• 13:54
  It does, because otherwise, why is the bill there?
• 13:57
  Yeah, that is strange to me, why. But I had a crypto experience this week. I have a hobby.
• 14:04
  I collect baseball cards. I always have since I've been like five years old, right?
• 14:08
  And I trade. From Sanford, what else was there to do? And, you know,
• 14:11
  it's a really big hobby now.
• 14:13
  I mean, it's like big time and I like really big money, but I'm not able to get any of those cards.
• 14:18
  But I did sell one card this week and a guy asked me if he could send me Ethereum.
• 14:22
  And I was like, what is that? Is that like a drug or something?
• 14:28
  Sounds like an illegal chemical, that Ethereum.
• 14:33
  Apparently it's a cryptocurrency. currency. I declined because I thought maybe
• 14:37
  once I got it to my PayPal, it would probably be worth less than I thought I
• 14:42
  asked for. So I said, just please send me cash.
• 14:45
  Well, I mean, we're hearing and part of it may be because people,
• 14:48
  for the most part, haven't heard a lot about crypto.
• 14:51
  And a lot of people are saying, oh, this is a generational issue. No, it's not.
• 14:54
  The biggest people pushing crypto are our president, who's older,
• 14:59
  and Elon, who's older, and then David Sachs.
• 15:02
  I mean, so it's not a generational thing.
• 15:06
  Where there's uncertainty is because it's a newer asset class.
• 15:10
  And it's volatile. And it's been a little volatile. But in fairness to the speaker,
• 15:14
  I get it that he's saying he would like to see the retirement system put some
• 15:19
  money into this high-risk, potentially high-yield investment class.
• 15:24
  That being said, I think the visceral reaction from the public has been very
• 15:29
  instructive to all of us because I didn't even realize people would react as strongly as they have.
• 15:33
  And I felt like I had a pretty good handle on them.
• 15:36
  We didn't do a call to action. This has just been people's reaction straight from their guts.
• 15:41
  We kind of knew. We knew there would be problems, but we had no idea it would be as adamant
• 15:47
  This is, yeah, this is like one of the most one-sided arguments that we've had
• 15:51
  on our Facebook, you know. Right. Yeah.
• 15:53
  And some of our most politically conservative members in the association who
• 15:59
  generally like a lot of this stuff they hear out of the administration in D.C.
• 16:03
  Don't care a bit what Trump, Elon or David Sacks say about crypto.
• 16:08
  They've got their own thoughts about it. And honestly, I think it is somewhat
• 16:11
  dismissive when people say, well, they just don't understand it.
• 16:13
  Some legislators said out loud, and I don't blame them.
• 16:16
  I don't know a whole lot about it, but that's problematic. If you're in here
• 16:19
  telling me it's great, tell me why.
• 16:20
  Give me track records, give me reasons to understand why it's a strong bet.
• 16:26
  And that's the track record, I mean, because there's not one,
• 16:29
  not with the retirement system.
• 16:30
  So, I mean, there was some conversations with other legislators who were like,
• 16:34
  why don't they just put a little bit in there, you know, and then come back
• 16:37
  and report to us in a certain amount of time how much that the investment earned.
• 16:42
  And our answer is they can already, right?
• 16:44
  I mean, that's our understanding is that they can already under that high risk asset class.
• 16:49
  But if you want to put it in statute,
• 16:51
  just put a tiny number on that as opposed to 10. 10 is $12 billion.
• 16:56
  Just put a decimal in front of the one.
• 16:59
  You know, I think that would be the way. And then have a report back.
• 17:03
  Report back how it's doing in a year or two. And I think then you could have
• 17:07
  a conversation that would make not only the legislators feel more.
• 17:11
  Yeah, because legitimately, I've had a member say to me, $12 billion and they can't give us a COLA.
• 17:18
  Right, right. So that's what we're running into. And if the argument is you've
• 17:22
  got to have huge risks to make big enough money, to have money for COLAs,
• 17:27
  then let's get on a plane.
• 17:28
  This is no different than the argument was over alternative investments,
• 17:31
  over REITs and hedge funds and things. Let's all get on a plane.
• 17:34
  Everybody take a craps table. Here's a million bucks. Let's go.
• 17:38
  I mean, it's a billion. You can make an, I know what I'm saying,
• 17:41
  if enough of us win on this plan.
• 17:44
  But the point is, yes, some things are incredibly high risk.
• 17:48
  But if you hit, it's going to be great.
• 17:50
  But the chances are not as strong. That window is so tiny from what I understand.
• 17:55
  Right. The window is really tiny to hit it on the mark when you make a good.
• 17:59
  Sam has a question. Look at Sam's face.
• 18:03
  She's pained over here. What's going on, Sam? Because my thought is,
• 18:05
  you guys want to invest this money.
• 18:07
  Test it with your own money first. Are they investing in, yeah,
• 18:11
  their personal money? Maybe they are.
• 18:13
  Are they investing and do they have proof that this is a good investment based
• 18:19
  on their own personal money?
• 18:21
  Or are they just saying, yeah, it's a good idea.
• 18:23
  And they haven't even, I don't know. I don't think anybody spoke in committee about.
• 18:28
  Whether they were personally. Personal investments. I don't know.
• 18:31
  Because it doesn't sound like they want to take that risk with their personal money.
• 18:34
  Why are they doing it with everyone else's money? I'm sure all of them bought
• 18:37
  some Doge during COVID because everybody was bored and buying Doge.
• 18:41
  I don't know if y'all remember. Doge coin. Yeah. Yeah, the Doge coin.
• 18:44
  That was a big thing during COVID. Everybody was fat. A little gold coin?
• 18:47
  That's the one with the dog. The dog. The Shinoebu or whatever.
• 18:51
  I like the dollar that has like George Washington's face on it.
• 18:56
  Anyway, see. We're still needing to work on Scenic coin, though.
• 18:59
  Oh, we're going to get that. We're going to enter that crypto market.
• 19:02
  The retirement system can put it all in Scenic. Put it all in Scenic coin.
• 19:06
  Well, hasn't Scenic gotten, we've gotten like actual souvenir little coins.
• 19:10
  That should be our logo for it.
• 19:13
  Yeah, that we share with other organizations. That should be our logo for it.
• 19:17
  We talked about it before, but we do run the risk of sounding like the people
• 19:21
  who didn't understand what the Internet was back in the early 90s.
• 19:24
  But I think with $12 billion at stake, we can be a little timid about things like this.
• 19:30
  Well, yeah, pension investing is different. Like we've talked a million times,
• 19:34
  personal investing, you can be riskier than you can with institutional investing.
• 19:38
  And you can be even riskier with institutional investing than you can be with pension investing.
• 19:43
  The bottom line is pension investing, you have to know you have the money for folks.
• 19:46
  You have to be able to pay that for up to 30 years out. So we have a special
• 19:50
  interview today that I was able to get over the weekend with past president
• 19:55
  Martha Fowler and Kirk Montgomery, our president now, who joined us as well.
• 19:59
  We delved into a few topics, one of which was Black History Month,
• 20:03
  because we weren't able to get them in during Black History Month.
• 20:07
  We did get them the week after, but the week that we had planned for the interview,
• 20:11
  it was when the snow hit all of a sudden. So we had to cancel our interview
• 20:15
  then, and it's kind of hard to schedule folks. So we got them two weeks later.
• 20:20
  Yeah, because they're not local. Yeah. And they have lives. This is our life.
• 20:25
  We come to work and we're here. That sounded sad.
• 20:29
  But they have jobs and lives. So we're very grateful for their volunteer efforts.
• 20:34
  And I will kick it over to that interview in a second.
• 20:37
  But just one more topic. Did y'all hear anything from our interview last week
• 20:40
  with Representative Torbett?
• 20:42
  Nothing at the legislature yet? Not yet. Okay. I know the committee has been appointed.
• 20:47
  So the committee has members now. Yeah, they do. Yeah. So anticipate.
• 20:51
  I mean, I've seen a lot of social media from the General Assembly around the statewide.
• 20:56
  We're not going to call it DOGE or SCOGE because if you listen to the interview
• 21:00
  with Representative Torbett, they don't have a nickname for it.
• 21:02
  That efficiency effort. But it is noteworthy to say that now Governor Stein,
• 21:07
  as of last night, announced Impact Center.
• 21:10
  Impact Center. That he was forming. Basically, it sounded he didn't get into
• 21:14
  details at all, but he said they're going to look basically waste,
• 21:17
  fraud, inefficiencies that he was going to have.
• 21:20
  I think the office state budget management is going to do that.
• 21:24
  That is a lot of questions, but it sounds like another doge type effort.
• 21:29
  Which, again, we are absolutely cool with looking at things for waste,
• 21:33
  fraud, inefficiencies.
• 21:34
  It's just that the thing we would never be cool with is the most likely thing
• 21:39
  to happen out of any of these efforts because it is so huge that what one person deems waste,
• 21:45
  fraud, and inefficiency becomes the story rather than looking at literally everything,
• 21:50
  which would include the big ticket items.
• 21:52
  Private contractors who have contracts through the state and then,
• 21:56
  like I said, these grants and these amounts of money we just throw to people
• 22:00
  and then they might do like what happened in Canton.
• 22:03
  They renege on the deal We gave them $12 million for it And they gave $6 million
• 22:07
  back as a settlement So we got half back.
• 22:11
  That's a terrible deal on something that nobody even followed through with.
• 22:15
  But that kind of thing, it's my suspicion, won't be the focus of either of these efforts.
• 22:19
  It'll be, did Matilda, you know, which state employees have value and which
• 22:24
  don't. And that's not doing a service to any taxpayer.
• 22:27
  Poor Matilda's getting drug through the mud on this. There probably has a state
• 22:31
  employee named Matilda that will hear this. You know there is.
• 22:33
  Hey, Matilda, if you're listening, email us. We'll send you a Scenics t-shirt.
• 22:37
  But I've heard a lot of people say they heard Representative Torbett on here
• 22:40
  and enjoyed hearing him.
• 22:41
  I heard you said we took a little flack about having him on.
• 22:45
  Yeah, there was a few comments on Twitter and a couple of emails.
• 22:49
  Blue Sky, especially folks just thinking, you know, he's the enemy.
• 22:53
  Why are we bringing him on scenic?
• 22:55
  What's not working? Yeah, it's not. It really isn't working. Either side.
• 23:00
  Again, it would crack me up. Take each political party and give them a doge
• 23:05
  type effort and they would come back with totally different stuff as far as
• 23:08
  what is worthy and not worthy.
• 23:10
  To not hear people out about what they're going to do and ask them the questions,
• 23:14
  it kind of feels like malpractice when you're in the field we're in.
• 23:17
  We need to know what they're intending to do. And if they're willing to listen
• 23:21
  to our two cents about it, we need to share that.
• 23:23
  But we need to know what people are trying to do and get that information out
• 23:27
  because our members want to know.
• 23:28
  So, yeah, we can never apologize for that.
• 23:32
  We need to be seen as an honest broker, too, you know, that we we need to be
• 23:36
  a resource for them as well. So exactly.
• 23:39
  Yeah, exactly. I often tell lawmakers that, you know, consider us a resource.
• 23:43
  We have a direct connection with the people. So, yeah.
• 23:46
  Well, I'll kick it over to myself on the other side of this musical interlude
• 23:50
  for the interview with Martha and Kirk.
• 23:52
  Fascinating stuff. And we'll be back to talk a little bit question of the week.
• 23:58
  Music.
• 24:05
  So today we're here with a few presidents of the organization.
• 24:08
  Right now we have Kirk Montgomery, who is the current president of Scenic.
• 24:12
  And also Martha Fowler is joining us. She is the immediate past president of Scenic.
• 24:17
  So we have about six years of presidential leadership in the room here.
• 24:21
  So we wanted to get together in February about this topic.
• 24:25
  As you know, February is Black History Month. And we had planned to get together
• 24:28
  a few weeks ago to discuss it. We had meetings scheduled, I think,
• 24:32
  mid-February, and then all of a sudden it snowed for the first time ever.
• 24:37
  To me, it just seems like we never get snowed. When we finally have plans, it snows around here.
• 24:43
  So we were unable to do it then, but I still want to get back to that topic
• 24:47
  in our discussion today. You guys were nice enough to join me.
• 24:50
  One thing to remember about our member leaders is that they have jobs and hectic
• 24:54
  lives, and it's not always easy to schedule things. So I'm glad that you guys
• 24:59
  found some time to join us.
• 25:01
  In February, we did make an effort to feature prominent figures in public service
• 25:06
  in North Carolina for Black History Month.
• 25:08
  And I think we did a great job of it, if I do say so myself,
• 25:11
  but we did. So too. Yeah, you did.
• 25:13
  All credit to Sam Klein, who took that effort on.
• 25:17
  But we wanted to highlight all over social media, folks are going to be doing
• 25:21
  posts, but we want to do things that are specific to scenic members or to public
• 25:26
  services because that's who we represent.
• 25:28
  So most of our posts were concerning folks who have contributed in the public
• 25:33
  sector or, you know, like HBCUs, which are many of them are state run.
• 25:38
  Yes. So you have a North Carolina Central alumni.
• 25:41
  And a North Carolina A&T alumni. Yeah, and we made a point to focus on both
• 25:46
  of those early and in the month, but I knew that you guys would appreciate the Aggies on there and the –
• 25:54
  The Falcons or? Oh, no. The Eagles. Oh, my God. Let me start.
• 25:58
  Wow, John. Let me do that again.
• 26:01
  Wait, will we know this? I just remember the logo. I'm sorry.
• 26:07
  But, yeah, those institutions are just so important to North Carolina and to the UNC system.
• 26:14
  A&T, I think our fact about it was it was like the largest HBCU in the country, right?
• 26:19
  Yes, North Carolina A&T State University is the largest HBCU in the country,
• 26:24
  and we have a lot of history with North Carolina A&T,
• 26:29
  the Greensboro Four that set in in the 60s and Woolworths.
• 26:35
  And so that started a movement so we could start integrating things where in
• 26:40
  the past it was not done. And also we had an astronaut, Ron McNair,
• 26:45
  who died when the shuttle went off.
• 26:47
  So there's a lot of history in A&T. Yeah, we had a segment on him as well.
• 26:53
  And that brings me, I guess, to my first point.
• 26:55
  I grew up in rural North Carolina, like many people.
• 26:59
  And I have to admit, at the beginning of my schooling, I didn't learn a lot about Black history.
• 27:05
  It wasn't that prominent. And I remember when we first started seeing lessons
• 27:09
  on Black History Month. And it seemed like a concerted effort to bring it into our schools.
• 27:14
  And I got to admit, you know, it opened my mind. Even in elementary school,
• 27:18
  I started learning about the sit-ins.
• 27:20
  And everyone learns that when you're young, you learn about George Washington
• 27:23
  Carver and was it peanut butter?
• 27:25
  Peanuts and a lot of different commodities related to peanuts.
• 27:29
  But, you know, that's just things that without Black History Month,
• 27:32
  folks would never learn about. It seems like there was probably an underserved part of education.
• 27:38
  When did you start seeing things like that in your education?
• 27:42
  Well, we had a little bit during elementary school, but I'm from a different background.
• 27:47
  So our history is American history and Black history. So we lived it.
• 27:53
  So not something that was foreign to us.
• 27:56
  And I grew up, too, in a rural area where we had tobacco farms and pig farms
• 28:02
  and chickens and all those kinds of things. So it was something that we lived.
• 28:07
  Yeah, it's just interesting to me.
• 28:09
  You know, one of the things too, John, is that when I started school,
• 28:12
  segregation had just really started.
• 28:15
  I didn't know the difference of the segregation and the integration and so forth,
• 28:20
  but my brothers and sisters did.
• 28:22
  And so it was a different time and a different mindset because there's a lot
• 28:27
  of things that I didn't have to go through that they went through because of
• 28:31
  the integration of the schools.
• 28:32
  I guess the biggest point I'm trying to make is that it's important to learn
• 28:36
  about things that, like me as a white person, did not learn about themselves.
• 28:41
  It really does open your mind up and it really does make you see the contributions
• 28:44
  of folks that aren't talked about in a lot of history.
• 28:48
  But what do you think is the importance of Black History Month and the success
• 28:54
  that it's had over the years?
• 28:56
  To me, it just gives emphasis on the contributions of black Americans.
• 29:00
  As we look at things, we don't see it truly as Black History Month.
• 29:04
  We see it as American history because, as Martha just stated,
• 29:07
  we had to live through it. And we understand and we feel like we're part of
• 29:11
  the country and the country is Americans.
• 29:14
  But through all the ups and downs that black people had to go through and the
• 29:18
  struggles that they've had, it allows people to see some of those items,
• 29:21
  even back with slavery. And then the contributions of great people who Booker T.
• 29:26
  Washington and things of that nature that contributed to the American society
• 29:29
  and not just black America as a whole.
• 29:32
  How do you guys think Scenic fits into that? Why is it important for Scenic
• 29:36
  to celebrate Black History Month?
• 29:38
  Well, I think it's important because in the past, we had two organizations,
• 29:43
  North Carolina State Government Employees Association and North Carolina State Employees.
• 29:47
  So when we merged in 1984, I was at that very first convention.
• 29:52
  And if you look out at the audience of who is out there now,
• 29:57
  it is much more integrated, much more celebrated that all of us fit together.
• 30:03
  We're not separate. We fit together by things that we do, things that we ask
• 30:08
  for, things that we lobby for.
• 30:10
  And I'm not lobbying for myself, per se, but lobbying for all of us.
• 30:16
  So I think that Scenic is the conduit to be able to bring all of that together
• 30:22
  and let us celebrate all individuals.
• 30:25
  So you were there at the beginning, what'd you say, 40 years into this organization?
• 30:30
  Yes, I came on board with Scenic in 1984.
• 30:34
  Okay, right at the beginning. Right, so that was the very first convention that we had as Scenic.
• 30:40
  And so Kay Slaughter was the president at that time, and I remember things that went on back then.
• 30:47
  So were the two organizations that merged or maybe even before those two,
• 30:52
  were there some sort of segregation in them?
• 30:55
  Was one more considered the white organization or is it in it?
• 31:00
  I never thought of it as being a white organization, but I saw it as a reflection of the times.
• 31:07
  You didn't see very many black people during those times. And so over the years,
• 31:12
  we have had people that are delegates to the convention and they've worked through
• 31:17
  scenic and worked through their jobs.
• 31:20
  And so as the country is reflected, I think that scenic is reflective of what
• 31:26
  we have and who we have in it.
• 31:28
  Yeah, so this might be a tough statement for me to make, but I have access to
• 31:33
  all the pictures of our history.
• 31:35
  I look back at some of the pictures from some of the, like, we go back to the
• 31:39
  40s, you know, and some of those conventions, you didn't see a black face in the crowd, you know.
• 31:45
  And so I guess I wonder, was state service segregated that much?
• 31:49
  I guess it probably was, right? It really was.
• 31:52
  We didn't have very many people of color in those jobs.
• 31:56
  And so once we started being able to bring people into those jobs,
• 32:00
  and even now we don't have very many at the upper echelons of jobs in North Carolina.
• 32:07
  So once we get to that layer of people being in those jobs, then you'll have
• 32:13
  more contributions of African-Americans.
• 32:15
  Yeah, I was looking at the OSHR stats. I think right now they say about 30 percent
• 32:20
  of the workforce is African-American, which I assume is probably comparable to the state as a whole.
• 32:27
  And I would venture to say that Scenic's membership may be even higher than that.
• 32:33
  You know, right now it seems like we're very diverse.
• 32:36
  And we are, John, the thing about it is that scenic allows the diversity to come into place.
• 32:41
  I mean, you have to look and see the leadership that came up through the ranks.
• 32:45
  And it's about unification.
• 32:47
  That's one of the things, me as president, that I'm really trying to push is
• 32:50
  that, you know, we have to stay unified because we're all going for a common goal.
• 32:54
  And that's to ensure the benefits and the longevity of state employees are kept.
• 32:59
  So we don't want to push the black-white issue.
• 33:01
  We want to push it to where, you know, it's a state employee's issue.
• 33:05
  Yeah, it seems to me that we're all in this together around here,
• 33:08
  it seems like. It really is an attitude that we have, and I'm happy to see that.
• 33:13
  I did want to get back to the HBCUs, and I'm really sorry about calling Central the wrong mascot there.
• 33:19
  So you went to Central for undergrad? For undergrad.
• 33:22
  Yeah. My background, I came to North Carolina, to the University of North Carolina,
• 33:26
  and I worked here for a few years. I had an associate's degree.
• 33:30
  And then I went to NCCU and got my bachelor's degree in a business administration
• 33:35
  with a concentration in computer information systems. And Central is a great HBCU.
• 33:41
  We have a great law school. We have some governors that came through that law school and so forth.
• 33:47
  And it's a university that has thrived.
• 33:50
  I think bioinformation systems has grown. I mean, it's a big part of Durham.
• 33:55
  And so we've had a lot of good people come from that university.
• 33:58
  Yeah. And obviously, we've talked a little bit about A&T already.
• 34:01
  What are the others? I guess, Elizabeth City State, Fayetteville State.
• 34:05
  Winston-Salem State, yes. And, you know, HBCUs have been an integral part of
• 34:10
  allowing African-Americans or black Americans to get education and being in
• 34:15
  state schools and so forth.
• 34:17
  That's been a blessing. One of the things that we don't want to see is that
• 34:21
  we don't want that to go away.
• 34:22
  Yeah. It's not just black students that's going there now. You have many diverse
• 34:26
  people going there. You have blacks, white, Asians.
• 34:29
  And so we want to keep the HBCUs going and strong. Yeah, I think that's really
• 34:34
  something we can celebrate as state employees, as a state as a whole.
• 34:38
  So I want to get into just a few more topics and then I'll let you go.
• 34:41
  I know it's 830 in the morning on Saturday. So thank you all so much for coming
• 34:45
  in. But right now you are the president.
• 34:48
  Kirk, and you have the finger on the pulse of the membership.
• 34:50
  What are you hearing? What are folks worried about, concerned about?
• 34:54
  You know, we have so many things that's coming at us at the moment.
• 34:57
  Dealing with the DEI issue, the Bitcoin bill, state health plan.
• 35:01
  I mean, it's a lot. And I won't go into detail, but, you know,
• 35:04
  we have staff here that's pushing very hard to ensure that state employees are covered.
• 35:08
  And we're very grateful for the work that our staff, our executive director,
• 35:13
  Artis Watkins, Suzanne, and everyone
• 35:15
  else is doing to ensure that state employees are taken care of. Yeah.
• 35:20
  And Martha, I was talking to you a little bit before the interview.
• 35:23
  We were trying to figure out how long you've been in as an officer.
• 35:26
  And it seems like you have been, what, eight years total? At least six.
• 35:31
  I spent two as first vice president, two years as president,
• 35:35
  and two years as immediate past president. So I've been in the officer line
• 35:39
  for quite a long time, and it does take a lot of commitment.
• 35:43
  It really does. I wanted to get to that. You need to have to hear that,
• 35:46
  Martha, because remember, it was three years when COVID hit with Jimmy.
• 35:49
  Yes, I think. Yes, that's true. It all runs together at some point, right?
• 35:53
  So it was quite a few years. But I just wanted to kind of celebrate that that
• 35:58
  commitment for you and just thank you for being so committed to the organization.
• 36:03
  But can you talk a little bit about how much of a commitment that is?
• 36:06
  I mean, that's six years of your life, at least seven years. It is. It's a long time.
• 36:11
  And without my family support, I wouldn't be able to do it. So I have to have
• 36:15
  the support of my family.
• 36:16
  First of all, my husband says I'm gone all the time.
• 36:20
  But certainly my commitment is to State Employers Association.
• 36:24
  And I believe in the cause and I believe what we advocate for.
• 36:30
  So given that, and I believe in the people around me.
• 36:33
  So years ago when I was an officer back in 1990 or 91, I was general treasurer
• 36:40
  of the association. So I served as an officer at that time as well.
• 36:45
  So just bringing the people around me and making sure that they are able to
• 36:50
  reap the benefits of being a state employee.
• 36:53
  And we've lobbied so hard to keep the benefits that we gained years ago.
• 36:58
  Some people today may not have the state health plan of when they retire that
• 37:03
  we benefit from now, health care coverage.
• 37:06
  And being able to put a little money aside every month to be able to enjoy retirement.
• 37:12
  So those kinds of things that we've lobbied for and we've been able to keep
• 37:17
  are key to bringing everybody else on board to let them see what we're doing,
• 37:23
  how we're doing it, and seeing what they can do to be a part of it and ask the
• 37:27
  individuals to lobby for it as well.
• 37:29
  Because without all of us, we would not have that.
• 37:32
  Yeah. So you finally get a break now, it seems like.
• 37:36
  You get to roll off, but you'll still be involved, right? Absolutely.
• 37:41
  I will be involved. Even though I may not be an officer, I'll still be a part of this association.
• 37:47
  Okay. I believe in its cause. Great. And Kirk, you have about seven months left
• 37:51
  on your term, it seems like, right?
• 37:53
  Yes. What do you want to accomplish in that time? And, you know,
• 37:56
  I'm sure you'll still be, you'll be a past president for at least two more years.
• 38:00
  So we got you two more years at least.
• 38:02
  You know, some of the things that I want to try to ensure that,
• 38:05
  you know, we finalize is that I want to ensure that our IT system is fully up
• 38:09
  and running. and that we have everything put in place. We're looking at the
• 38:13
  marketing of the organization and the branding.
• 38:16
  There's quite a few things that I wanted to accomplish, but two years,
• 38:19
  it goes by very quickly. It really does.
• 38:21
  But we are making strides. I just want to ensure that we're on a stable foundation
• 38:25
  so that when the next president comes up into play, that they can keep everything going.
• 38:30
  Yeah. Well, thank you both for your service and thank you for joining us on
• 38:33
  a Saturday and have a good day.
• 38:35
  Thank you, John. Thank you. We really appreciate it.
• 38:38
  Music.
• 38:47
  Welcome back from the interview. I thought it was an interesting take on several
• 38:51
  different topics at Scenic.
• 38:52
  Before we get to the question of the week, I just want to throw out a few things
• 38:56
  that you guys may not know.
• 38:58
  John's looking at Suzanne wondering what's wrong. She got tickled with,
• 39:01
  that was a very energetic and we're back.
• 39:03
  It sounded like pig races that used to have a bear.
• 39:07
  That guy that was so animated. I try to be over the top because I like when
• 39:13
  people are over the top. That's why he's the perfect host for the podcast.
• 39:18
  Good giggles. So we put out a call two weeks ago.
• 39:21
  The first person to email us at our new email address would win some swag.
• 39:26
  So, Debra Compton, you have some swag coming your way.
• 39:30
  We've got to figure out what to send Debra, but she did ask a question,
• 39:34
  or I think she just made a statement about the Torbett interview.
• 39:37
  And so thank you, Debra. We'll send you some Bitcoin. Yeah. Some Scenicoin. Scenicoin.
• 39:43
  Give her one of the Challenger coins. Yeah, there we go. We'll do that.
• 39:46
  We should make one for the podcast specifically.
• 39:49
  Also, we got a solicitation this week from someone wanting to be a guest.
• 39:54
  Who wants to be a guest? I don't know.
• 39:56
  Was it a member who just reached? No, no. It was like, hello,
• 40:00
  Scenic View podcast. It was like a form email.
• 40:03
  And it was like, this business leader wants to come talk to your listeners about their business.
• 40:07
  Oh, I thought it was like a real person. I'm excited.
• 40:12
  And we did get something from the Wharton Business School about some study they're
• 40:16
  doing on podcasts. So I filled out their survey.
• 40:19
  But we're making waves. People are listening. That is waves indeed.
• 40:25
  So my question of the week. Do you want to play the music or you want to stick
• 40:28
  it in? Let's play it in. John Swacky Weird.
• 40:31
  Music.
• 40:31
  Question of the Week.
• 40:36
  So my question of the week. Well, this is not the question, first off.
• 40:40
  Do y'all know what this week is, like, historically?
• 40:43
  It's the week that leads up to St. Paddy's.
• 40:46
  No, that was last week. That was last week. That was last week.
• 40:48
  It's the five-year anniversary of when we went home from COVID.
• 40:52
  Oh, yeah. Oh, today is that day. Yeah, March 13th, right? I heard it on the
• 40:57
  radio. I can't take credit for that.
• 40:59
  Five years ago. God, that feels like a lifetime ago. Back when my hair was still
• 41:03
  red. So my question is...
• 41:06
  What are your memories of that week specifically and maybe the few weeks after?
• 41:11
  I know that we eventually all worked through a nightmare that was COVID,
• 41:16
  but just the initial take of that time.
• 41:19
  And I'll start because my, I think we actually went home from scenic for the
• 41:24
  last time on my birthday, which was March 16th.
• 41:28
  And so it just, it's always, my birthday is so special. Did you feel like we did that?
• 41:34
  Yeah, we wouldn't get you a cake? Yeah. Y'all didn't even say anything.
• 41:37
  I remember we had a big... Probably didn't say anything.
• 41:40
  We were terrified for our lives. Right. But I remember we had a big staff meeting
• 41:44
  and everyone was just didn't know what to think. It just came up really quick.
• 41:48
  It was like a few cases in like Seattle. And then all of a sudden it was like, what do we do?
• 41:53
  The whole country just stopped. And I remember for the first few days,
• 41:57
  like, or the first few weeks, even, even my kids in school, we didn't know what the future held.
• 42:04
  Eventually, they started doing like school online, which made me so sad because
• 42:08
  my daughter was like first and second grade and they missed first and second grade, you know.
• 42:13
  So it just, I mean, I think it changed America.
• 42:16
  Obviously, it did. Yeah, we can't get that time back. No. What are your memories, Suzanne?
• 42:22
  I remember anxiety, obviously. Anxiety because all of a sudden we've all got
• 42:26
  to go home. You know, we can't see each other in person anymore.
• 42:30
  You may get sick and you may die. So there was fear.
• 42:33
  You know, there was fear of not so much us. We were blessed.
• 42:36
  We were lucky that we worked for Scenic and we had the ability to go home and do productive work.
• 42:41
  We built relationships with the legislature so we could have phone conversations.
• 42:46
  But a lot of people lost their jobs. I remember being very concerned for,
• 42:50
  you know, my kids, their little family and, you know, my brothers.
• 42:54
  Anybody who was close to you, couldn't help but be worried that what are you
• 42:57
  going to do if you lose your job? You can't go out and work right now.
• 43:00
  My next door neighbor, she was a hairdresser. She still is.
• 43:03
  But immediately shut down. Boom, just that quick.
• 43:07
  My wife is a dental assistant, and they, I mean, at that time,
• 43:11
  you're like, is anyone going to ever fix teeth again?
• 43:14
  You know, they shut down. She lost her job for a little while.
• 43:17
  Thankfully, they came back. And I think, you know, we all came back somehow, one form or another.
• 43:22
  But it was terrifying there for a while. What about you, Artis? Any memories?
• 43:27
  Yeah. I mean, my memory is that, yes, we were able to go home and we were very lucky.
• 43:34
  And at the end of the day, what Scenic staff can do is based on what our members vote.
• 43:41
  Our executive committee took a vote on that and wanted us safe.
• 43:45
  Our president at the time was Jimmy Davis.
• 43:47
  He and our executive committee had a real commitment to keeping us safe.
• 43:51
  And that's big. And like Suzanne said, not everybody was that lucky or the kind of work they did.
• 43:56
  Maybe it didn't work for them to go do that. So that was a heaviness that laid
• 44:00
  over the whole thing. But the main thing is so many of our members not only
• 44:03
  couldn't work from home, but had to work in communal situations like a prison or an HHS facility.
• 44:10
  Or we had members working in the public schools who were coming in to make sandwiches to go deliver.
• 44:15
  I remember this. Yeah, I remember that. They would get on buses and go take
• 44:19
  sandwiches to some of the kids
• 44:21
  because they had relied on. That would have been their lunch at school.
• 44:24
  Yeah, they relied on school for food. The heaviness of all of that was awful.
• 44:29
  We were in constant contact with members who were having real crisis issues.
• 44:35
  But I think if there's ever been anything in all these years to put into focus
• 44:38
  the work we do and what we need to do, it was during that time. Definitely.
• 44:43
  I think that we were able to be a real resource for a lot of people.
• 44:46
  We weren't seeing it cares.
• 44:47
  Yeah. We weren't seeing it cares for them during this time. And, man.
• 44:51
  And we worked really hard to get testing for members.
• 44:55
  Oh, that was a whole fight. Right. So, you know, if you wonder why we can seem
• 45:00
  rabid about don't leave state employees out of raises and things like that when
• 45:05
  everybody else that possibly could went home and hid, they could not.
• 45:10
  Yeah. I mean, what are you going to do at a prison, right? I mean,
• 45:13
  there's no way to. You can't just walk out and leave it.
• 45:14
  And I mean, it's not just hurricanes. It's not just snowstorms.
• 45:18
  It's not just anything else that might be a natural disaster.
• 45:21
  They're there, period, no matter
• 45:23
  what happens, no matter how completely unexpected and drastic it is.
• 45:28
  That's why we'll go to the mat for them because we know and we have the benefit of knowing.
• 45:34
  I don't expect other people to know unless we tell them. But if they wonder
• 45:37
  why we act so crazy sometimes, I mean, part of it's just us.
• 45:41
  But the rest of it is these folks are too busy doing their actual job for the
• 45:45
  North Carolinians to go tell these stories themselves. That's what they are members for.
• 45:51
  So we'll do it but that's what I think of they go to the map for the state so
• 45:54
  we're going to go to the map for them.
• 45:56
  Sam, you had a totally different experience. Were you in college?
• 46:00
  I was. I was a sophomore in college. I had just joined a sorority, gotten a big.
• 46:06
  We went home from spring break. I experienced a lot more anger than anything
• 46:09
  else because I felt like I got gypped out of the full college experience.
• 46:14
  We went back that fall, yeah, but you weren't allowed to go into a dorm building
• 46:18
  that wasn't yours and hang out with your friends.
• 46:21
  You weren't allowed to go out on weekends. You weren't allowed to do anything.
• 46:26
  You had to wear a mask 24-7, which was understandable, but it felt like all
• 46:32
  of our events were online.
• 46:33
  All classes were pretty much online. And it was very isolating.
• 46:37
  My parents almost didn't let me go back to school that fall.
• 46:40
  And I remember having a meltdown at home because I was like,
• 46:45
  I can't stay here and do school. I don't work well here.
• 46:49
  This isn't where I belong right now. And I had an apartment and they were like,
• 46:53
  we'll cancel your lease if we have to.
• 46:55
  Like, if you're doing all online classes, we're not sending you back. There's no point.
• 47:00
  Luckily, I ended up having hybrid classes, so they had to send me back and let me go back to school.
• 47:06
  Yeah, that's a tough time in life, too. It really is. It's very isolating.
• 47:11
  Yeah, I mean, like I said about, you know, my daughter being in first grade,
• 47:15
  She probably don't even know the difference, but I know that it's important,
• 47:19
  you know, the whole interaction.
• 47:21
  Socialization. And then my son was, like, starting ninth grade,
• 47:24
  and, like, he didn't get a ninth grade in high school.
• 47:27
  You know, it affected different people in very different ways.
• 47:31
  Yeah, because I would think about people Sam's age.
• 47:34
  Yeah. You know, back when we were that age, we were going to the club,
• 47:38
  you know. You still are. We were having a great time.
• 47:41
  And my brother was graduating college that semester. Oh, so the job.
• 47:44
  So he didn't get a graduation until a couple months before I graduated college.
• 47:50
  He got a graduation like February of 2022 was when he finally got an actual
• 47:55
  graduation. There's some serious, I mean, there's some trauma.
• 47:59
  Yeah. There was still fear because my mom worked in the medical field.
• 48:03
  So she was still going to work.
• 48:05
  She was a nurse. She was still working, but she would come home.
• 48:08
  She would look at us, say, don't touch me. I'm going to go shower.
• 48:12
  She would take off all of her, like, scrubs and stuff before she even entered the house.
• 48:16
  The medical folks, I mean, they were so incredibly brave. I just,
• 48:19
  I can't imagine being that brave.
• 48:22
  It was also frustrating because my dad, he was home the whole time.
• 48:25
  He still had his job, but he was home the whole time.
• 48:28
  And he took it as, oh, the kids are home on break. I can make them do work.
• 48:32
  And we'd be sitting there like, Dad, I have school. I'm still in class.
• 48:37
  And he would come knock on the door in the middle of a class.
• 48:40
  And he'd be like, what are you doing? I need you to come help me with something.
• 48:43
  And I'm like, Dad, I am on a Zoom call in class right now.
• 48:47
  This is why I can't stay here this fall. But it's a beautiful day outside.
• 48:51
  I guess one thing that did benefit from the whole thing was streaming services, Netflix.
• 48:57
  Tiger King. I remember Tiger King. Oh, yeah. Everyone in America watched Tiger King.
• 49:02
  TikTok also blew up.
• 49:05
  Everyone was making whipped coffee and going on walks and doing like little
• 49:09
  dances and songs and all that good stuff on TikTok.
• 49:13
  And we scrolled and watched it all. Oh, because that was our form of socialization
• 49:17
  at the time. You couldn't leave your house, so you had to feel connected to
• 49:20
  people somehow. So it was TikTok.
• 49:23
  And it still is. Yeah. Well, that was a, hopefully we won't.
• 49:26
  Well, that was a dreary walk down memory lane. Thanks, John. Yeah, you're welcome.
• 49:31
  So hopefully we won't experience that again for at least 100 years,
• 49:34
  right? But with the interconnectedness of the world, I don't think it'll be
• 49:37
  100 years before the next one.
• 49:39
  No, I agree. Have a great weekend, you guys.
• 49:43
  Thanks for joining us this week and have a great weekend.
• 49:46
  Music.