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SYSK Selects: What Happened at Kent State? · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's me Josh and for this week's s
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Y s K Select, I've chosen this episode on the
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: history of the Kent State Massacre, somewhat unknown, surprisingly and
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: definitely largely misunderstood moment in American history and kind of
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: a bummer, so prepare, but it's a good one. Enjoy, Enjoy.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of My
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: there's Jerry. And it's snowing outside, which means it's Stuff
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: You Should Know Snow Edition. Snow Edition. Yeah, I know
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: when we're like, we gotta record and get out of
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: here because this is Atlanta and snow kills us. I
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: just mainly don't want to be locked away from the snow.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: I want to be able to like look out the
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: window and see it. I can now, but not as
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: well as I'd like to me. It's just a traffic thing.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Like people are probably leaving work right now. People have
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: already left the office here. Well, maybe everyone will be
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: gone by the time I get out there. Okay, you'll
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: just be the lone guy trudging through the snow. That's right,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: like Vigo Mortenson in the road. Yes, although he was
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: not alone and there wasn't any snow. It was just
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: nuclear ash. Although there was snow because Charlie's there and
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: kills herself by going out into the snow. But that's
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: before everything really takes a downward. Spoiler alert retroactive spoiler alert,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Chuck Yep, are you familiar with Kent State? Yeah? Man,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: I've been singing that Neil Young song all day. How
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: can you not? You cannot by having never heard it?
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Like me, shut up? You know that song? Never heard it?
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I've never listened to Neil Young. You've never heard the
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: song Ohio? No? I know the Pretender song, but I
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: don't think that's about Kent State. I'm shocked, Okay, I
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: mean you don't have and Young without Like, how's it
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: go humed for him? No, I'm not gonna Maybe I
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: have heard it ten Soldiers and Nixon Okay, Yeah, yeah,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: I've heard it. I didn't know that was about Ohio
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: four Dead in Ohio yeah, okay. And I had no idea,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: all right. I didn't know what that song was about.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I was just like, oh, Neil young really Yeah, oh man,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: get ready to hear it. I'm sure alright, I'm used
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: to it by now, your bulletproof. Uh. Well, so you're
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: familiar with the Kent State shootings May four, Um, four
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: students were killed. I believe another eleven were injured, Yeah,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: including one was paralyzed, like some pretty severe injuries. And uh,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: this is a big deal. That would be a big
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: deal in and of itself if it was just some
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: sort of campus shooting or something like that, Like it
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: would be a very big deal these days. But what
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: made the Kent State shootings, for those of you who
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: aren't familiar with them, such an enormous deal was that
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: the shootings were carried out by National guardsmen. They were
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Americans firing on Americans. Um, Americans on one side of
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: the equation firing on protesters on the other side. Uh.
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  Speaker 1: And it was one of the darkest points in American history,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: modern or otherwise. Yeah, it was. I think what's so
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: upsetting is it was random. It wasn't you know that
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: guy's coming at me with a bottle or a brick,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: shoot him. It was random shooting into a crowd, Right,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: That's the kind of thing that would happen in countries
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: under like dictatorships, not here in America. But it did
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: happen here in America, and not just at Kent State.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: There was another similar incident just ten days later, um,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: that we'll talk about as well. It gets overlooked, but yeah,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: it was a very dark moment in American history, and
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: it came out of the the tensions, um over the
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Vietnam War initially, but I think it was more than that.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: It was also we should say that's the um, kind
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: of obvious thing that led to it, but also there
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: was a real tension also between the establishment and the
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: anti establishment. Yeah, and um, the people in control and
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: the people who weren't in control, students, elders, there's just
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: a lot of tension between two sides, and the dividing line,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: the obvious dividing line, was the Vietnam War. Yeah, and UM,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: I think if you are not of that generation, you
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: may not know the full story. Um. You might know
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: that four people were shot in a protest, and that's
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: about it. Maybe even if you're from that generation, you
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: may not know the full story. But we're about to
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: tell you. Okay, let's take it back a little further
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: than all right, Vietnam country which had when it's independence
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: from France and the fifties. Have you ever seen We
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Were Soldiers. Yes, it's almost like a snuff film. It's
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: one of the most graphically violent movies I've ever seen
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: in my life. But it's about that transition from France
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: leaving Vietnam and America coming in. Yeah, go ahead. Well
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: it's just initially serving as advisors and then becoming embroiled
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: in the war. I forgot all about that movie, yeah,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: you know, and Apocalypse Now there are some deleted scenes
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: of the meeting up with a French family in Vietnam
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: and like having dinner. Really yeah, and I remember when
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: I heard about that, I was like, what why were
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: they French? And then I did a little more homework
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: on it. Oh oh yeah, if you eat Vietnamese food,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: like it's very clearly like, yeah, French influenced, well, all
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: most food is. But yeah sure, um so anyway, uh,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: in the fifties they split between communists North and non
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: communist South. Vietnam and America didn't want communism spreading throughout Asia.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: We had a policy of containment. Yeah, and so Richard Nixon,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: um when he won the sixty eight election. Um. Part
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: of his promise was something called Vietnamization. It's kind of
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: an awkward word, and that meant to transfer the combat
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: duties from our soldiers to the South Vietnamese. That sounds familiar,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: isn't it? It does? But um, what what happened was
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: at some point he said, you know what in nineteen
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: seventy in April, he said, I want to send our
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: soldiers in the Cambodia. And that caused sort of a
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: firestorm because it was a bit of a reversal of
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: what he said he was gonna do, and it, you know,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: really embroiled us in the kind of the middle of things. Well, yeah,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: he he escalated the war in Vietnam, which was already
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: a very um contentious issue, and that it was a war,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: but also as a war that Congress never openly declared war.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: So that's why, historically speaking, it's referred to as the
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Vietnam conflict. Um. And so Nixon gets elected partially because
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: he's saying, I'm gonna get our boys out of there. Yeah,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: we're not gonna like let the communists when we're gonna
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: prop up the Vietnamese, but um, we're gonna get out
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: of there. Instead, he escalates things by invading Cambodia, where
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: the Vietcong we're stationed, and that led to immediate protests.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: That was April thirtieth, nineteen seventy, that he announced that
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: we had invaded Cambodia, and the next day is when
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: the first protest takes place at Kent State. Yeah, and
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Kent the The article points out that it was not
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: the most likely place because it was a little more
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: blue collar than like say, Ohio State nearby, the Ohio
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: State University and um man, I'm sorry that is so stupid.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Sorry os U alums and fans and students, but it
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: is stupid, and everyone outside of Ohio State thinks it's stupid.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: They take a lot of pride in that. The I know,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: which I think just kind of fans the flames of
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: um derision. Yeah, you know, I can just start saying
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: the University of Georgia. That makes a little more sense,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: does it. Yeah, what's the difference the Ohio State University
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: the University of Georgia. It's just it was the University
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: of Ohio State that would make more sense. Yeah, a
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: litt more to my ear, I got you my ear right,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: there you see it. That's very nice, thank you. Um.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: At any rate, uh, I can't say it was a
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: little more blue collar and you wouldn't think there would
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: be like protesting, but there was protesting at schools all
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: over the country. There were and you can read between
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: the lines here. Kent State had a lower hippie population
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: than Ohio State. Can we just come up right out
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: and say it, right, But there were protests there. Um,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: there's a protest on May one, and it was a
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: standard uh war protests three days before the shootings, and
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: it's kind of when things got kicked off, right, But
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: these kids were still pretty good. They were at school
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: holding a protest in the commons, I believe, um, which
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: was the a k a. The quad or like the
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: big grassy area between in the middle of campus. Um.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: And they said, you know what, this went pretty well.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Let's take the weekend off and we'll meet back here
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: one day and have another anti war protest because we're
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: really steamed about this. And everyone said, okay, let's do that,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: and for tonight, let's go out and hit the bars
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: and it. Yeah, this is what they did. The first one.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: They buried the constitution as a symbolic gesture. And the
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: second one they got drunk, right, not at the protest
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: but later that night. Right, so that Friday protests is
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: when they buried the constitution. Yes, this is like a
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: real protest, not just walking around. There's like stuff going
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: on and like you know, there's symbolic acts. It was
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: a real protest. Yeah. And if you combine alcohol and protesting,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: things might get a little rowdy. So bonfires broke out,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: they start throwing bottles at police cars, breaking windows. It's
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: more the little rowdy. I mean, that's pretty that's a riot.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: When you said like bomb fires in the streets and
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: like throw bottles at at police cars, that you have
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: just basically said we've drawn a line in the sand.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Where are you gonna do, cops? That is one way
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: to look at it, for sure. Uh. The mayor, Leroy
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Satram said, this is an emergency situation people. I need
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: to call the governor James Rhodes. We need some help.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: I'm going to close the bar, which you know isn't
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: gonna make anyone very happy. No, And it had an
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: exacerbating effect apparently because that meant all the people who
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: weren't riding in the streets who were busy drinking in
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: the bars were now suddenly in the streets too and
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: joined the protests and the a k A. The riots, right, Uh,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: that's right. And the police were called in. They used
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: tear gas and said go back to your dorm rooms,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: basically get back on campus. And that was Friday. Now
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: we move on to Saturday. Yeah, and the Mayor's is
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: obviously a little jumpy. He's hearing rumors circulating that there's
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: gonna be another the scene from the night before is
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: going to happen all over again on Saturday. So he
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: calls the governor of Ohio and UM, here enters the
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: person who, in my opinion, is single handedly responsible for
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: what happened at Kent State. So the National Guard arrives. Um,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: there were about a thousand protesters. Um that actually burned
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: down an r OTC building on campus, which is pretty
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: bold move. And UM, they didn't find out who did
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: that exactly, but they did cut fire hoses so they
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: couldn't put out the fire and basically burned it to
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: the ground. Yeah, the protesters set it on fire and
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: then cut the fire hoses like they wanted that building burned.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: And apparently, UM, that's when the National Guard shows up
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: a couple like an hour or so later, right, Yeah,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: and they, you know, broke everything up obviously. And then
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Uh comes Sunday. You've got about a thousand National guardsman
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: and you've got Governor Rhodes arriving, uh and holding a
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: press conference and kind of flaming the fire again by
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: calling the protesters the worst type of people that we
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: harbor in America. Yeah, he compared to the brown Shirts,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Mussolini's brown Shirts, UM, the communists, UM, pretty much anybody
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: he could think of that was that would be disparaging.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: That's who publicly at this press conference compared him to UM.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: And you mentioned that the on Sunday morning, the UM
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: National Guard was on campus kind of keeping order and everything.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: But apparently like the relations between the guardsmen and the
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: students were pretty amicable, Like people were chatting friendly, Like
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: there was no tension. It was just kind of like, hey,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: I'm nineteen, Hey i'm nineteen, I'm a student at Kent State,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: I'm in the National Guard. Let's hang out. And it
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: wasn't until the governor showed up and held this press
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: conference that things took a very sudden turn for the worse,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: and it wasn't just the brown shirts calling him the
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: brown Shirts of the worst element that America harbor, but
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: also saying I may also declare martial law. Yeah, and
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: that I may message never quite got through in those
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: confusion as to whether or not that actually happened. And basically,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: the National Guard believed that that had happened, and they
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: took control of the campus and said we're running the
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: show now. And that's just the National Guard. But the
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: university officials to the people running the university said, oh, well,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: martial laws declared. And they knew that there was a
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: protest scheduled for the following day, Monday, so they printed
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: a bunch of flyers and pamphlets saying, hey, your constitutional
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: rights have been suspended because the universities under martial law,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: so all assemblies banned, so don't protest, And that kind
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: of fell on deaf ears. I guess you could say,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: come Monday morning, because the students showed up to protest. Yeah,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: that definitely didn't work. Um, by noon, there was about
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: three thousand people, about five hundred actively protesting, another thousand
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: just there to be supportive. And um, and it cuts
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: it's a college campus. About people just checking it out. Yeah,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: stopping on their way to class or whatever, you like,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: what's going on. I would have done the same thing probably,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: And we should say also are our buddy stuff they
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: don't want you to know? UM host and sometimes producer
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Matt Frederick his parents were students at Kent stay and
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: they stay at home that day. They were like, there's
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: some bad stuff that's going to go down, and they
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: were right. Uh So, the article points out at was
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: less an anti war protest at this point and more
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: of a protest of the draconian occupation of their campus
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: martial law by the army and UM which is not
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: even real, which is just a misunderstanding. Yeah, pretty much.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: So the general UM Canterbury says, you know what this
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: rally is over drive me around in a jeep, give
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: me that bullhorn, let me tell everyone to go home,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: because that'll work. Yeah, I mean, let's go back to
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: this where these tensions came from. In the first it's
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: establishment versus anti establishment, and establishment is the type to
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: stand in a jeep and be driven around with the
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: bullhorn telling people to disperse. I don't know if there's
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: ever been a message relayed via bullhorn that doesn't fall
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: on deaf ears. Yeah, you know, it has the opposite effect, unless,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: like I guess, in like a female situations, if you're
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: trying to like organize people and stuff, that helps. But
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: I always think of bullhorns is stuff like this, the
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: general riding around the jeep yelling at people to go home,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: and people saying, no, you don understand why we're here
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: in the first place. So they started throwing rocks at
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: the jeep, not surprisingly and um not well think you
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: know tensions at this point this was day four. Yeah,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I I think though, though I'm not justifying, I'm just no, no,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: I know you're not at all. But I think it's
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: really easy to to um to to kind of choose
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: one side or the other, especially once you know the outcome.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: But I don't think it should be overlooked that, like
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: people are throwing rocks at this dude while he's driving
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: around in the jeep. People have burned down a building
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: full of rioted in the streets of the town, the
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: college town. I mean, like these are real huge events
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: that scared the pants off of the people who were
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: running the town, the state, the country. And I mean
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: to say that they were unprovoked as historically inaccurate. Yeah,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: I totally agree with not justifying. But I think a
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: lot of people might think the story is people got
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: together to protest and the army came in and shot him, right,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: or yeah, and and it was either the protests of fault.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: They shouldn't have been protest, they shouldn't have burned down
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: that building, or you know, it was entirely the National
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Guards fault. And you whatever historical event you're looking at,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: it's never just one side or the other. Usually there's
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: all it's always great, and you have blinders on. If
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: you think otherwise, you should write a history book called
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: It's Always Great Josh Clark's History of America. I'd buy that,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: thanks man. Um. Alright, so where are we? They were
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: throwing rocks at the General. He at this point ordered
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: his troops to load their weapons, get the tear gas going.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: He said, they threw rocks, and you guys, load your weapons.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: That's basically what happened. Um, not because his feelings were hurt. Yeah,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: although imagine they were. I guess no matter who you are,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: I'm sure if people throw rocks and you're like I
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: I take that personally. So the National Guard came in.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: They pushed them back past the Commons, over a steep
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: called Blanket Hill and into the parking lot of Prentice
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Hall in a practice football field. Then basically the guardsmen
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: found themselves cornered by a fence, retreated back up the hill.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: When they got to the top, out of the seventy
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: turned and began firing their guns into the crowd. Yeah. So, well,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: not all of them into the crowd, we should point out,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: most into the air or the ground. Actually, although some
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: fired directly in the crowd, they all would have fired
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: directly in the crowd. That would have been a much
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: higher blood count or body count. Oh yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. Um.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: And I mean the the protesters were about a football
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: field away from them, um. And the fact that they
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: started to walk up the hill and then turn and
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: shot made it not just an attack of Americans on Americans,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: but a surprise attack of Americans on Americans. Yeah. I
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: would say the students were definitely did not expect bullet retaliation.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Took about thirteen seconds. Um. Four students were killed. Alison Krauss,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: not the Allison Krause obviously, Jeffrey Miller, Sandra Sure and
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: William Schroeder, and uh, it's all tragic, but even more
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: tragically Sure and Schroeder were just walking to class. Yeah,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: they weren't even part of this protest. They were in
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: the wrong place at the wrong time, and like I said,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: nine people were wounded in one Dean collar was paralyzed.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: And yeah, so those shots they shot into the air
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: and into the ground, but also into the crowd, and
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: over about thirteen seconds, they fired between sixty one and
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: sixty seven shots. I think that could be categorized as
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: a hail of gunfire. Yeah, thirteen seconds, sixties shots, But
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: is that that's like a lot of shots a second,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: you know, and just from twenty eight guns. And apparently
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: there was a professor named Glenn Frank who did a
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: lot to quell the crowd and did talk them into, uh,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: not escalating this thing any further. Right, So this article
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: really kind of glances over this guy's role. And it
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: wasn't just him, but he was the head of the
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: faculty marshals, who whose job it was was to basically
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: keep an eye on the protests. They were like the
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: university's liaison between the university and the students the protesters,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: and this guy and his crew basically single handedly prevented
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: like a massacre because they saw very quickly that if
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: they didn't insinuate themselves, but between the guardsmen and the students,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: the students were gonna be like, Holy, Holy God, they
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: just fired live ammunition on us, and they're standing right there,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: let's get them. They would have attacked. The consensus is
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: the students would have attacked out of anger, and that
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: the guardsmen most definitely would have fired again when being attacked.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: UM and these this this faculty member and his team
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: saw what was about to happen and slid in and
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: was like wait. So they first they spoke to the
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: guardsman and said, stop firing, we have to go talk
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: to the students. Then they went and spoke to the
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: students for twenty minutes and got him to calm down
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: enough to to to stop provoking or did not provoker,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: advance on the guardsman in retaliation, and saved a lot
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: of lives. Probably. I wonder if there's a Glenn Frank
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: statue on campus, there should be agree. Uh. So they
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: closed school not for the day or the weekend, but
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: for the rest of the semester, and UM a lot
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: of colleges did the same. As far as shutting down, well,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: because a lot of students went on strike. Yeah, and
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: like they were forced to the universities were forced to
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: shut down. Uh. In the following weekend, UM a hundred
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: thousand people went to d c UM to protest. Neil
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Young News to Josh wrote a song about it. M Okay,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: so the the shooting has just happened, that the crowd
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: has been quelled, the dead and Moon would have been
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: taken away an ambulances and now we've reached the aftermath
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: that's immediate and otherwise. Yeah, Um, President Nixon wasn't super compassionate.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: He had earlier been overheard calling them bums. This wasn't
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: in his press release, obviously, but it definitely got out
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: in the press. Did not bode well for his reputation.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: And um, he said, when dissent turns to violence, it
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: invites tragedy. That was the official line. That was the
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: official line, which is pretty cold. That's the president like, yeah,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: you get what you what you pay for. Yeah, very much.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: His vice president, um Agnew said it was predictable. UM
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: also not super compassionate, considering this these were Americans were
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: shot and killed Uh, two of which were just walking
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: to class. Uh. He called them a bunch of scared
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: kids with guns. The National guardsman. That was very priced
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: the speechwriter for Nixon. Yeah, which is true. Yeah, but
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: so basically the whole the whole kids, it's gray, you know.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: It is like they probably were scared for sure, and
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: uh and yeah, I think that's fair. I think also
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: though it's it's one sided too, like he's he's not
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: saying and then also the other side, we're a bunch
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: of scared, angry kids with rocks. Yeah, like the only
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: way and you can't even remove the gray, but you'd
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: have to find out each person who shot and what
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: their motive was, because some were probably scared out of
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: their mind and reacted. There has been some people later
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: on that said that they some got together and decided
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: to do this, some of the guardsmen, right, so, when
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: they had been pushing the crowd back onto the UM
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: practice football field, apparently while they were loitering there. There
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: have been allegations that a couple of the guardsmen said, Hey,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: when we marched back up the hill, we're going to
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: turn and fire. It's never been proven, um, but a
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: few more than a couple of historians have leveled that accusation. Um.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: There was also immediate word that the guardsman said that
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: they were acting in self defense because they there was
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: a sniper on one of the rooftops and that they
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: were being fired on. They found out that there were
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: audio recordings of this, and UM, that was quickly changed
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: to well, it was self defense because these people we're
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: throwing rocks at us. There was a presidential commission obviously, UM,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: and they concluded it was quote unnecessary, unwarranted, and inexcusable.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: And then in UH, an FBI investigation found that the
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: guardsman fabricated their defense and that they were not in
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: true danger. Right. That was FBI. So the presidential commission
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: and the FBI investigation both said, like, this shouldn't have happened,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: and like it's on the guardsman. But that wasn't the
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: mood of the nation for the most part. There was
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: a gallop pole that was conducted shortly after, and UM,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: the majority of Americans said that it was the protester's
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: fault for protesting. Yeah, I mean it went to trial too.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: It wasn't just like, oh, well this happened and it's
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: super sad. Uh. And in federal trial, it was dismissed
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: because of what was called a weak case by the guardsman,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: and then the grand jury in Ohio put the blame
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: on the university officials and the protesters and not the guardsman.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: And then there was a civil trial in nineteen seventy
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: nine settled out of court where the victims and families
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: got a collective sum of six d seventy dollars ah
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: collective some meaning I guess that was for all of them, right, yeah, yeah,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: they all split that and no apology was apology was
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: ever issued. Um, they did issue a sign statement expressing regret.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Do you want to hear it? Yeah, So this is
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: the sign statement that the that was that came out
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: of the civil trial that the Ohio National Guard released
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: to the families of the victims. In retrospect, the tragedy
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: of May fourth, nineteen seventies should not have occurred. The
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: students may have believed that they were right in continuing
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: their mass protests in response to the Cambodian invasion, even
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: though this protest followed the posting and reading by the
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: university of an order to ban rallies and in order
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: to disperse These orders have since been determined by the
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals to have been lawful. Some
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: of the guardsmen on Blanket Hill, fearful and anxious from
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: prior events, may have believed their own, in their own minds,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: that their lives were in danger. Hindsight suggests that another
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: method would have resolved the confrontation. Better ways must be
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: found to deal with such a confrontation. We devoutly wish
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: that a means had been found to avoid the May
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: fourth events culminating in the guard shootings and the irreversible
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: deaths and injuries. We deeply regret those events and are
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: profoundly saddened by the deaths of four students and the
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: wounding of nine others which resulted. We hope that the
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: agreement to end the litigation will help to asswadge the
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: tragic memories regarding that sad day. I don't apology, no
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: sort of like we regret, hindsight being we might have
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: shaid have done something differently right saying we regret instead
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: of I'm sorry. Is that's a big flashing light. It's
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: a big death. Uh. And for many years they um
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: the university itself wasn't quite sure how to handle moving
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: forward in memoriam and otherwise. UM. In the seventies, they
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: the officials at Kent State failed. They tried to, but
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: they tried to commemorate it just once every five years
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: instead of every year. And everybody who held the visuals like,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: well then you have nothing to do with this. And
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: they kept showing up every year, right like what are
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: you gonna do? Calling the National Guard and remove us?
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: And they went. Uh. In nineteen seventy nine, there were
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: hundreds of arrest because the university tried to bulldoze the
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: place where it happened to build a gym that didn't happen. Uh.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: And it took all the way up until to keep
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: cars from driving over the spots in the parking lot
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: where the students were killed. Right. And then finally in
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: the mid two thousand's, UM, the university is finally reverse
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: this position and just kind of goes with the flow.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: And in two thirteen they opened a visitors center that
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: is all about commemorating this event as a historical event.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: But also I get the impression from the the descriptions
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: of the visitors center a UM kind of the spiritual
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: aspect of it. The spiritual aspect of tragedy and is
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: that just last year? Uh. Now the university UM, they say,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: as a nation's leader in UH courses of non violence
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: and democracy and peace studies and conflict resolution classes were
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: all established, so they, you know, are trying to lead
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: the way forward and at least being a symbol of uh,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: you know, peaceful protest, right. And people are still trying
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: to figure out what happened. There's still lots of debate. UM.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Oliver Stone unsurprisingly favors the theory that the government placed
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: a sniper UM in these protests and that there were
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: government plant agitators who pushed the protests over the line. UM.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: And this idea is supported by the fact that there
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: were policies by governors and the president to crack down
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: on dissent on student anti war protests. So there definitely
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: was a policy that was like, if you want to
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: get dirty, we'll we'll we'll send our goons to beat
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: you up. UM. But a lot of people think that
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: the presence of a snipers totally unsupported. UM. But then
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: a cassette emerged UH fairly recently that that's an actual
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: audio recording of that day that says supposedly you can
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: hear um the phrases get, set, point, and fire, which
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: means that this wasn't a surprise knee jerk shooting. That
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: there was an officer commanding the guardsman to shoot. Yeah.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: And it also, um, you know what, with modern analysis,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: they think that there may have been shots fired before
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: uh full I think seventy seconds before the guardsmen fired.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: There's a a Kin State student named Terry Norman UM
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: who was a photographer on campus taking pictures, and he
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: also had a handgun, a loaded handgun, and he denied
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: that he discharged it. But um, he has been accused
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: of triggering this by firing shots. And I think they
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: found evidence, audio evidence that there were shots fired, and
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: they think it maybe have been Terry Norman. Wow, that
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: kicked it all off. And can you imagine carrying that around? No?
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: I could not. And then chuck um. This is a
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: lot of people say that that Kent State was the
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: beginning of the um slide towards Watergate. For Nixon, this
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: is like the beginning of the end for him. Um.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: And then we should also talk about what happened at
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Jackson State because race relations of this country are so
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: messed up that everybody talks about Kent State where four
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: white students died, and no one talks about Jackson State,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: which happened ten days later and two black people died,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: black students. Yeah, and could have been a lot worse.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Like they basically riddled a dormitory with a hail of
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: gun fire. So ten days after Kent State UM, at
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Jackson State University UM in Mississippi, UH, they were also
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: carrying out anti war protests, but they were also UM
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: protests based on racism as well. UM. And when these
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: students were doing a lot of the similar stuff, a
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: lot of the same stuff that was happening or had
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: happened at Kent State, they were UM riding. They had
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: burned a building on campus down and UM. When firefighters
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: came out to put out the flames, they started to
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: get worried that these protesters were going to harm them,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: so they called the cops. Well, the cops came out,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: tried to disperse the crowd. The crowd didn't disperse, so
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: they opened fire, and like you said, they riddled the
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: building that served as the backdrop to this protest with bullets.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Something like four hundred and sixty rounds hit the building, alone.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: There's no telling how manyone on the sides or anything
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: like that. The four hundred and sixty rounds, they said
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: every window was akin on every floor with bullet fire
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: on the on a crowd of crowd of students. Um,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: and amazingly only two people died. Yeah, Philip Gibbs, he
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: was a pre law major and a father of an
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: eighteen monthly son. And James Green. He was seventeen years
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: old and he was a high school student walking home
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: from his job at the grocery store. Which again, the
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: fact that he's not involved in anyway and still died
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: makes it so much worse. Yeah. And this one, also,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: I don't think we pointed out started out because of misinformation.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: There was um a rumor that the mayor, Mayor Charles
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Evers and his wife had been shot and killed, assassinated
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: basically it was not true. A relative of Mega Evers, right, Yeah,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: he was his brother, and so that's kind of what
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: sparked everything. In addition to like the anti war protests,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: and uh, it was very much about black and white.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean like there there. Yeah, so um,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: this is a historically black call edge. The cops had
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: just opened fire on a bunch of students. Twelve people
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: were hit by injured by gunfire. Two were killed, and
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: the ambulances weren't called until the police picked up all
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: of their showcasings and left, and then the National Guard
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: came in. Yeah, and then after that the police denied
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: they even took part. Um. I'm not sure how that
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: panned out. How can you deny that he shot up
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: a building? So it was Mississippi in and historically black college.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: And you probably never heard of Jackson State for NT
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: until we started researching this. I didn't. I hadn't heard
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: of it either, and there was only one source we
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: used that made reference to it. That's how I heard
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: about it. So that's great. It's just fantastic. That's what
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: happened against state in Jackson State, in Jackson State. Um,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: you got anything else? I got nothing else. Just gotta
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: be a better ending of this than this. I mean,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: these things happened, but there there has to have been
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: some lesson learned. I think. So it hasn't happened since. Yeah,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: that's true. I wonder at least on a campus. Yeah,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: we should do one on the Battle for Seattle. Did
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: they didn't fire live rounds at that though, did they
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure they didn't, but that, Yeah, we should
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: do one on that as well. Yeah, my friend John
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: was there agitating is he a black shirt? Now? He
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: had these funny protest lines about that references Simpsons. I
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: can't remember her black block, that's where they got the pictures. Yeah, Um,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: well I have to interview him then. I don't know
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: that it would yield much information. Fine, I think he
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: was just cooping around. Um, all right, Well, if you
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: want to learn more about Kent State, you can type
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: in uh that name into the search bar how stuff
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: works dot com. And we also encourage you to go
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: look up Jackson State as well. Um. And let's see,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: since I said search bar you it's time for listener mail, right, Yes, sir,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: gonna call this. Prison guard wrote in, Hey guys, Um,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: For the most part, I found the episode on capital
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Punishment pretty even handed and interesting. However, I couldn't help
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: but notice a bit of venom in your voices whenever
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: you mentioned prison guards, especially in instance of an inmate
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: taking his own life with a razor blade while he
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: was being off observed on deathwatch. The implication was that
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: the guard on duty negligently gave the inmate a razor
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: in order to encourage him to take his own life.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: I don't think we implied that, did we. Um, No,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: it wasn't implied. It was more just like what kind
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: of thing? Like why why did that happen? As a
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: former prison guard that worked on death row, I have
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: to tell you, UM, that couldn't be further from the truth.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: It's a civil right for inmates to have access to
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: razor blades for hygienic purposes. I was required to allow
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: an inmate on death row to keep the disposable razor
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: for thirty minutes, despite the fact that he had nearly
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: killed another inmate and murdered a prison official with a
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: razor blade while serving his senates. I'd imagine an inmate,
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: even on deathwatch, would have similar rights, but I can't
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: confirm through experience. UM. Guards that worked on death row
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: weren't allowed to serve on death watch. This is because
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: it was feared that we'd form an emotional bond to
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: the inmates set for execution. I might cause a scene.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: So yes, prison guards have feelings and can have empathy
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: for others. Pop culture and nearly always portrays guards as
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: heavy as and villains and even smart portrayals of prison
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: life like Orange is the New Black, as every prison
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: official character as a comic book mustache twirling villain or
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: a mouth breathing idiot. It's a hard job and should
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: be respected as much as other high risk civil servant careers. Um.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: A little disappointed you guys continue this trend, but I'm
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: used to it, so don't sweat it. So that is
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: from Craig, and he let us off easy, even though
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: he feels like we insulted his job. Well thanks, Craig.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: I think he did exactly what we were kind of
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: searching for right then. We were just um ah, disgustedly confused.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: We're disgustedly ignorant one of the two. Yeah. I will
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: say that he is probably right on the money. As
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: far as movie portrayals, it's pretty one note if you're
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: a prison guard in a movie in general, unless it's
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: The Green Mile and that movie has problems of its
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: own or OZ. I never watched Oz. What that was
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: the first? That Odds is the show that kicked off
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: all of the shows you love and binge watched. Now,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: the idea of binge watching a show began with a
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: show like Oz because there was nothing like it ever
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: created before. It was. It all started with Oz, the Wire,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: the shield, Um, House of Cards. Orange is a new
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: black Everything, every breaking bad, all of them. Can thank Oz.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: You can thank Oz. You should go watch oz Man.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Thank you Oz. It's good, great man. This one was.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: This is something I feel drained a little bit. Yeah, yeah,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: emotionally exhausted. I'm still not happy with the ending. I
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: feel like we could have ended a lot better. But um,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: I'll have to think on it all right. Uh. If
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: you want to get in touch with me and Chuck,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: you can tweet to us at s y s K podcast.
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• 38:18
  Speaker 1: slash Stuff you Should Know. Um. You can send us
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: an email to Stuff podcast at how stuff Works dot
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• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Should Know is a production of iHeart Radios. How Stuff
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• 38:38
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