Latest / Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast / An Alternate Episode VIII

Transcript

An Alternate Episode VIII · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: The Force will be with you always.
0:02
Speaker 2: Welcome to the NED party.
0:06
Speaker 1: Hi, this is Nick and Ostasu, story editor on Star Wars,
0:10
Speaker 1: the Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch, and you
0:14
Speaker 1: are listening to aggressive negotiations.
0:24
Speaker 2: Well, hello, and welcome to aggressive negotiations. That little slice
0:29
Speaker 2: of Star Wars heaven you just can't find anywhere else,
0:33
Speaker 2: And in fact, it's that slice of Star Wars heaven
0:35
Speaker 2: that should be shared with all those who love the
0:38
Speaker 2: saga from a galaxy far far away. And I am
0:43
Speaker 2: just one of the hosts here, Jedi Master Matthew Rushing,
0:47
Speaker 2: and with me my esteemed co host and gentlemen extraordinary
0:53
Speaker 2: Jedi Master John Mills. John It, I've got to say,
0:58
Speaker 2: it's as good as always to be with you, especially
1:01
Speaker 2: after a momentous last week.
1:04
Speaker 3: Yes, celebrating the ten year anniversary ish of the Force Awakens. Yay, fantastic,
1:11
Speaker 3: and it inspired us, in fact, to dust off the
1:14
Speaker 3: old rumble seat behind the pilot's chair here and welcome
1:18
Speaker 3: a special guest who well, I mean, we're very honored
1:22
Speaker 3: because this is a this is one of the secret
1:24
Speaker 3: members of the Jedi Council that not many people have known.
1:28
Speaker 3: As there glowering at us from time to time when
1:31
Speaker 3: we're appointing you know, different missions to the people to
1:35
Speaker 3: go out and go to you know, ansion and stuff
1:38
Speaker 3: like that to settle border disputes.
1:39
Speaker 2: But it is I mean head wobbling back and forth
1:42
Speaker 2: like Yarl poof, you know.
1:44
Speaker 3: Just exactly exactly right, and that is Yancey Evans, Yancy.
1:49
Speaker 3: Welcome to aggressive negotiations.
1:51
Speaker 4: Welcome, gentlemen. It's great to be back in the Jedi
1:53
Speaker 4: Council after returning from my mission from the anno Its system,
1:58
Speaker 4: which oh there's not much there, so.
2:01
Speaker 2: Not much there, Yeah, not much there.
2:04
Speaker 3: Everybody comes back there from there a little bit gassy.
2:07
Speaker 3: Ah hah huh. You know. There you go, there, you go.
2:13
Speaker 2: Well before we get started, of course, you know, find
2:15
Speaker 2: us wherever you get your podcasts, and you know, help
2:18
Speaker 2: help us out, help some Jedi Masters out with a
2:20
Speaker 2: star rating review. You noticed the Season of Giving, so
2:23
Speaker 2: we would love for you to give us a review
2:25
Speaker 2: in a rating over there on Apple Podcasts. You can
2:28
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2:31
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2:34
Speaker 2: We're on Instagram with the entire network at join nerd
2:37
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2:41
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2:44
Speaker 2: of the shows we're doing on Facebook at Facebook dot com.
2:48
Speaker 2: On Facebook at Facebook dot com, slash the Nerd Party.
2:51
Speaker 2: And in the spirit of celebrating The Force Awakens being
2:59
Speaker 2: out for ten years, you know, we thought we'd do
3:02
Speaker 2: something really fun here with Nancy as we had been
3:05
Speaker 2: talking back and forth, and I had this idea. You know,
3:10
Speaker 2: one of the things that we mentioned John on the
3:12
Speaker 2: show with our good friend Darren there was, you know,
3:18
Speaker 2: they didn't have a plan for the the the sequel trilogy,
3:25
Speaker 2: and so I thought of this idea of you know,
3:28
Speaker 2: what if instead of you know, trying to do these
3:31
Speaker 2: films basically back to back to back, they had kind
3:34
Speaker 2: of taken the thought process that George did with the prequels,
3:37
Speaker 2: where you're gonna film one and then you're gonna spend
3:40
Speaker 2: the next three years getting the next one ready and
3:43
Speaker 2: releasing that and so so what if you know, The
3:46
Speaker 2: Force Awakens had come out and then they sat in
3:50
Speaker 2: a writer's room and said, okay, well we've left off,
3:56
Speaker 2: you know, with Ray holding a lightsaber, and you know,
4:01
Speaker 2: we've got the decimation of the Republic, the New Republic.
4:06
Speaker 2: We've got the decimation basically of the.
4:10
Speaker 3: First Order, what do we go next?
4:14
Speaker 2: And so that's that's our goal here, is to kind
4:17
Speaker 2: of say, all right, well, what are we going to
4:20
Speaker 2: do next with this story and continue it? And so, Nancy,
4:26
Speaker 2: one of the things that well you mentioned us was
4:31
Speaker 2: kind of following up then on the story of Ray,
4:36
Speaker 2: and I think you have maybe a good idea for
4:39
Speaker 2: the writer's room here, and so why don't you take
4:42
Speaker 2: us through what you were thinking?
4:44
Speaker 4: Well, my thought the process was this. I think a
4:49
Speaker 4: lot of the bread cruns that JJ left with the
4:54
Speaker 4: Force Awakens was that Ray was probably in fact related
4:58
Speaker 4: to Luke Someway. I think there's a there's a good
5:03
Speaker 4: argument that we've made for that because Luke's Lightsaber specifically
5:07
Speaker 4: calls out to her. We're introduced with the it's almost
5:11
Speaker 4: like the lightsaber's introducing itself for the last place that
5:14
Speaker 4: was at with the battle between Luke and Darth Vader
5:19
Speaker 4: on Cloud City. But then we flash to a series
5:23
Speaker 4: of events.
5:23
Speaker 2: So what you're saying is is almost like the Lightsaber.
5:26
Speaker 4: Said yes, and then we flash to a series of
5:30
Speaker 4: events that all seemed to place her in the action
5:35
Speaker 4: almost as if she was there, So we do get
5:37
Speaker 4: the flashback of her as the child seeing the ship
5:41
Speaker 4: driving off into the distance, but we also get this
5:44
Speaker 4: weird flashback at the Jedi Temple, Luke's Jedi academy where
5:49
Speaker 4: it's being destroyed by the Knights of Wren and she's
5:52
Speaker 4: standing in front of them and they clearly see her,
5:56
Speaker 4: and Kylo even acknowledges her face to face, and that
6:00
Speaker 4: got me thinking, along with some other nuggets like Kylo
6:07
Speaker 4: being super obsessed. When the officer mentions that the droid
6:13
Speaker 4: was with a girl, and he has this what girl
6:16
Speaker 4: kind of it's almost like, I know something about a girl?
6:20
Speaker 4: What is this?
6:22
Speaker 3: And I just think it he's actually met.
6:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what it is.
6:26
Speaker 3: That's what we're saying.
6:26
Speaker 4: So I actually think there's something there between a connection
6:30
Speaker 4: between Luke and Ray that I think I'm part of
6:34
Speaker 4: the you know, a lot of the problem we talk
6:36
Speaker 4: about with the last Jedi not to be jumping ahead
6:38
Speaker 4: too much is Luke's mission. Why he's you know, Luke's
6:43
Speaker 4: decision to just kind of throw it all away and
6:47
Speaker 4: run to Octo, which this would make sense if because
6:50
Speaker 4: even in the opening, all Luke has disappeared, and it's
6:55
Speaker 4: clear that the First Order is out there looking actively,
6:58
Speaker 4: proactively looking for him. So it makes sense if this
7:03
Speaker 4: is my daughter or you know, some girl i've acknowledged
7:05
Speaker 4: a special, I hide her away and I go run
7:09
Speaker 4: off with the hope that the First Order follows me
7:13
Speaker 4: and continues looking for me while she's safely tucked away
7:17
Speaker 4: on this distant planet. That's my first point.
7:22
Speaker 3: Okay, so you're going I think that the thing is
7:26
Speaker 3: I think that's completely fair because and some of the
7:29
Speaker 3: side conversations we've had, you even called out Han looks
7:32
Speaker 3: at her at one point with a very significant look,
7:35
Speaker 3: and I remember seeing the movie for the first time
7:37
Speaker 3: and seeing that look, and I was like, Okay, Han knows.
7:39
Speaker 4: Who she is.
7:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, he knows her, and the only way he
7:44
Speaker 3: could possibly know her is either she's his lost daughter
7:49
Speaker 3: from an affair he had or something or related to
7:52
Speaker 3: Luke in some way.
7:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Kira had a kid.
7:55
Speaker 3: Right, something with it. I don't know if it would
7:58
Speaker 3: line up again, too long ago anyway, but I think
8:01
Speaker 3: that I definitely I'm down with having Ray be related
8:06
Speaker 3: to Luke makes perfect sense. I think that one of
8:11
Speaker 3: the things I really would have wanted to go after
8:13
Speaker 3: with you know, because Matt, you set it up like
8:15
Speaker 3: at the end of the Force Awakens, she's holding that
8:18
Speaker 3: lightsaber out. What we got from that moment in episode
8:22
Speaker 3: eight definitely subverted expectations, But I think that the thread
8:28
Speaker 3: that would have been worth following with that would have
8:33
Speaker 3: been to I think Yancy, like you're saying, pursue not
8:37
Speaker 3: the idea that it was all flashback that Ray saw,
8:40
Speaker 3: but she also saw the future. So that whole thing
8:43
Speaker 3: about the Knights of Wren coming, I would love to
8:47
Speaker 3: subvert expectations further and say, oh no, the Jedi Temple
8:51
Speaker 3: hasn't been destroyed yet. He cleared everybody out, and he
8:55
Speaker 3: went on the run to your point to have the
8:57
Speaker 3: First Order chase him, and now the First Order knows her,
9:02
Speaker 3: and that's what's going to lead to this sort of tragedy.
9:05
Speaker 3: So that Kylo Ren can show up with the Knights
9:08
Speaker 3: of Ren because Supreme Leader Snoke says, bring him back
9:12
Speaker 3: to me so I can complete his training. That's totally
9:15
Speaker 3: setting up. Okay, Knights of Ren are gonna come with them,
9:17
Speaker 3: and they're gonna come charging for them, and there's gonna
9:20
Speaker 3: be a fight during some sort of rainstorm, et cetera,
9:23
Speaker 3: et cetera.
9:23
Speaker 4: Et cetera.
9:24
Speaker 3: Like, what does it specifically look like? That's what the
9:26
Speaker 3: writer's room is for, right, That's what I'm thrown out
9:28
Speaker 3: on the floor in that first meeting.
9:30
Speaker 4: I like him.
9:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a great idea to you know, Yancy,
9:36
Speaker 2: I want to I was thinking about, you know, how
9:39
Speaker 2: we would kind of like tackle this idea. And so
9:43
Speaker 2: I love the idea that that Ray is related to
9:46
Speaker 2: Luke somehow, that she was at his you know, Jedi academy.
9:52
Speaker 2: She's been seen to have, you know, like Luke and
9:56
Speaker 2: like Anakin have something particular special about her in that sense,
10:03
Speaker 2: and so I want to pause it that you know,
10:09
Speaker 2: uh Kylo in his rampage to leave the Temple uh
10:20
Speaker 2: and leave Luke's academy after his seduction by Snoke, is
10:29
Speaker 2: that he kills Luke's wife. And so this is what
10:37
Speaker 2: causes Luke to take this drastic action of hiding his
10:42
Speaker 2: daughter to keep her safe, knowing that she could possibly
10:46
Speaker 2: be the last Jedi, or at least hopefully the next Jedi,
10:52
Speaker 2: and uh, you know, with all of his students of
10:56
Speaker 2: course dead at that point too. Him leading you know,
11:00
Speaker 2: the first order on this wild goose chase, you know,
11:04
Speaker 2: and being in a place that nobody knows how to
11:08
Speaker 2: find and waiting there much like you know, this is
11:13
Speaker 2: the rhythm and the rhyme uh for Ray to find
11:18
Speaker 2: him on Octu the way Luke does Yoda on Dagoba,
11:24
Speaker 2: I think is a great way to tell the story
11:29
Speaker 2: in that sense. And again, like it creates the connection.
11:33
Speaker 2: And you know, even thinking forward in the sense of
11:36
Speaker 2: like this idea of you, Yancy, you had mentioned in
11:42
Speaker 2: a conversation we were having, it makes much more sense
11:46
Speaker 2: than the diead idea if they're related, right, that they
11:52
Speaker 2: come from one of the siblings, and therefore then they
11:55
Speaker 2: create this diad and you can you can still use
11:59
Speaker 2: that idea later on. So I like that. That's that's
12:03
Speaker 2: maybe one of the things that kind of comes out
12:06
Speaker 2: of this writer's room, of this idea of like, hey,
12:08
Speaker 2: we've we've got these two basically cousins and that have
12:15
Speaker 2: come from these twins, uh yeah, and and and their
12:19
Speaker 2: relationships not together obviously, but with with you know, their
12:23
Speaker 2: significant others. And it's allowed us to to then play
12:27
Speaker 2: with some deep ideas of the force that maybe we've
12:30
Speaker 2: not explored before.
12:31
Speaker 3: But see, I like that especially because of the fact
12:35
Speaker 3: that you know, each twin has their own child. The
12:39
Speaker 3: girl has a boy, the boy has a girl. It's
12:41
Speaker 3: more of that balanced sort of stuff, you know, that
12:43
Speaker 3: you can have a lot of fun with right there.
12:45
Speaker 3: But I think the thing we're all coming at with
12:47
Speaker 3: and Yancey, I'd love to hear actually your thoughts on
12:50
Speaker 3: this because what they did with Finn after episode seven
12:53
Speaker 3: I consider criminal. They completely wasted the potential of that character.
12:56
Speaker 3: How how are you working Finn into our episode eight?
13:00
Speaker 4: So I do agree. Okay, So Finn is obviously injured,
13:05
Speaker 4: so he's going to be out of the scenario somehow,
13:09
Speaker 4: but he needs to be brought in at some point
13:12
Speaker 4: in time as another because obviously, you know, it's clear
13:17
Speaker 4: that in JJ's ideas that the Force was kind of
13:23
Speaker 4: in a dormant state almost and it comes back to
13:26
Speaker 4: life to kind of revivify itself among people who might
13:33
Speaker 4: have abilities, might not, you know, we don't know. But
13:37
Speaker 4: in Finn's case, he clearly feels this poll you've got
13:41
Speaker 4: to do something with that. You have to. It can't
13:43
Speaker 4: be something that happened off screen, and he become you know,
13:48
Speaker 4: and all of a sudden he now seems more at
13:51
Speaker 4: one y with the Force versus in episode two where
13:54
Speaker 4: he was basically, you know, kind of a comic relief
13:57
Speaker 4: sidekit character, which is like you were saying, it's just
14:01
Speaker 4: absolute criminal. Now, the thing is he's obsessed with finding Ray.
14:08
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, in the first movie, so why
14:11
Speaker 4: not continue that he leaves to find where she's gone,
14:14
Speaker 4: and he goes on in this little I don't know
14:17
Speaker 4: how that would work, because you know, you have one
14:20
Speaker 4: character going on the quest to find Luke and another
14:22
Speaker 4: character doing the same thing. I don't know, or maybe
14:25
Speaker 4: he feels a calling to stand up and help the
14:30
Speaker 4: resistance as they're kind of reassembling themselves, because I don't
14:34
Speaker 4: like the way he just kind of was like thrown
14:37
Speaker 4: to the side on this random side quest that kind
14:39
Speaker 4: of was just a comedy of errors kind of thing.
14:43
Speaker 4: I didn't I didn't like that at all.
14:47
Speaker 2: So Nancy had the idea about Ray. But this is
14:50
Speaker 2: the thing I was thinking about the most because I
14:53
Speaker 2: couldn't think of anything better than Nancy's and why even
14:56
Speaker 2: try when it was I thought was really really good
14:58
Speaker 2: for the story. But the thing I thought was really
15:01
Speaker 2: interesting that would have made a great story. And this
15:04
Speaker 2: is where you could put the bros together with Poe
15:08
Speaker 2: and Finn. You know, the idea that there's almost been
15:12
Speaker 2: this kind of mutually assured destruction between the two, you know,
15:17
Speaker 2: I mean the Republic is gone, the New Republic, it's government,
15:22
Speaker 2: and most of its fleet has been completely decimated. Right,
15:26
Speaker 2: But you know what we see of Starkiller Base, you know,
15:32
Speaker 2: unlike the Death Star that holds a lot of people, right,
15:36
Speaker 2: this was an entire planet that seem to have housed
15:40
Speaker 2: a good portion of the First Order. And so the
15:43
Speaker 2: idea that both of these sides are kind of grappling
15:47
Speaker 2: with having to try and rebuild themselves, I think is
15:50
Speaker 2: a great idea, and having Finn and Poe be a
15:54
Speaker 2: part of that rebuilding process, but not just that. Playing
15:58
Speaker 2: into the fact that the way in which the First
16:02
Speaker 2: Order builds its army is to conscript kids and brainwash
16:07
Speaker 2: them and turn them into as another film would call,
16:11
Speaker 2: goose stepping morons, I think is a fantastic way to
16:17
Speaker 2: basically have Finn and Poe realize that there is a
16:22
Speaker 2: network of former First Order stormtroopers that have left and
16:28
Speaker 2: that that's where you can really integrate the character of
16:33
Speaker 2: Finn and give him a storyline that's his own, and
16:36
Speaker 2: then he gets to have his buddy with him the
16:38
Speaker 2: whole time. And they were a huge hit with the
16:42
Speaker 2: Force Awakens, their interactions, the fund that they created. But
16:47
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot that you could do with
16:49
Speaker 2: that in helping them build the resistance up, but at
16:55
Speaker 2: the same time actually play with the character of Finn
16:58
Speaker 2: as being a stormtrooper who you know, left the ranks.
17:02
Speaker 3: But the thing is that that was if I recall
17:04
Speaker 3: correctly and the Duel the Fates script that was leaked
17:08
Speaker 3: from Trevor Oh, he didn't let.
17:10
Speaker 4: So you could have moved so you could have moved
17:12
Speaker 4: that into the second film, and that would have been
17:14
Speaker 4: a really interesting concept.
17:17
Speaker 3: And you could and you could have had po flying
17:20
Speaker 3: Finn out there to be the spokes the spokesperson to
17:24
Speaker 3: go up there. Lay is like, you guys have to
17:26
Speaker 3: go out there. They won't listen to me, I'm associated
17:29
Speaker 3: with the Republic. They'll listen to somebody that's from the
17:33
Speaker 3: First Order, and they view it as their opportunity. We're
17:37
Speaker 3: both against the ropes, but we could wipe out the
17:39
Speaker 3: remnants of the Empire completely right now, and the Galaxy
17:42
Speaker 3: would be much in a much better stance because they're
17:45
Speaker 3: trusting that Ray is going to go get Luke. And
17:50
Speaker 3: then you can set up for I mean, obviously you
17:53
Speaker 3: have to set up for some big conflict at the end.
17:55
Speaker 4: So what you could do, what you could do I'm
17:57
Speaker 4: thinking is set up for a big conflict at the
17:59
Speaker 4: end that they actually lose, but they still have a
18:03
Speaker 4: sizable force. So it's kind of the Empire ending where
18:07
Speaker 4: it's the good guys kind of lose, but they really
18:09
Speaker 4: don't lose because they escape at the end, but they
18:14
Speaker 4: are the main objective of the film. They are defeated
18:17
Speaker 4: by the Empire, but there's still that.
18:19
Speaker 3: See but see, that's where I would flip That's where
18:22
Speaker 3: I would flip it on its head. Is I like
18:26
Speaker 3: that thinking, But I would flip it to where the
18:29
Speaker 3: hopeful word down but not out thing would be Kylo
18:32
Speaker 3: Wren Yeah okay, And it becomes the first orders Empire
18:36
Speaker 3: strikes okay, where they're like, yeah, well we're coming back
18:38
Speaker 3: next time and it's going to be even righter. Like
18:40
Speaker 3: set it up that way, complete inversion of Luke's story.
18:44
Speaker 2: And this is where I think too this this movie
18:46
Speaker 2: could do this thing where because we still have Luke
18:50
Speaker 2: and Leah left, you know, us understanding that in the
18:55
Speaker 2: end they're a diad as twins, right, and you have
19:00
Speaker 2: this other diad that's opposed to another, you know, and
19:05
Speaker 2: so the question becomes then, as these these two different
19:10
Speaker 2: diads you know, kind of revolve around each other, what happens,
19:18
Speaker 2: you know, can can we? Is there going to be
19:23
Speaker 2: an ability for you know, Ben to be redeemed or
19:27
Speaker 2: he will he always stay evil and that's what we
19:29
Speaker 2: actually need for the balance, you know. All all these
19:32
Speaker 2: type of questions that we could be playing with I
19:34
Speaker 2: think would be really really interesting. But this is also
19:37
Speaker 2: a place I think too, I like what your your idea, John,
19:40
Speaker 2: because I love the idea that in the end, the
19:45
Speaker 2: the first order is the one that feels like it
19:47
Speaker 2: one in this and there's a sense of triumph for
19:53
Speaker 2: you know, kylo Ren, you know, finding his place at
19:57
Speaker 2: the end of this and it only being the intervention
20:01
Speaker 2: of Luke and Ray coming back into the fold that
20:08
Speaker 2: allows the fledgling resistance to escape. And they're the ones
20:14
Speaker 2: that you know, even though uh, you know, we've got
20:19
Speaker 2: Finn helping us, you know, figure out ways to to
20:25
Speaker 2: beep up our own numbers with these these previous storm Troopers.
20:31
Speaker 2: It still feels very precarious going into that final film
20:35
Speaker 2: of how are we going to overcome the First Order,
20:41
Speaker 2: that even though they were seemed down and out by
20:44
Speaker 2: the end of The Force Awakens, actually feels, you know,
20:49
Speaker 2: pretty triumphant at the end of this film. And so
20:53
Speaker 2: I like the idea that this feels even even though
20:58
Speaker 2: there's a slight victory, it does feel like even more
21:01
Speaker 2: of a downer than the Empire Strikes Back in that sense,
21:04
Speaker 2: because we don't want to you know, we don't want
21:07
Speaker 2: to rhyme too much. We don't want to just repeat
21:10
Speaker 2: too much. We do want this to feel like its
21:12
Speaker 2: own thing, And and in that I think it creates
21:18
Speaker 2: a stronger story than just kind of trying to like, oh, yes,
21:23
Speaker 2: basically we're just doing Empire Strike because you know, I
21:25
Speaker 2: think we'd all agree. One of the big problems with
21:27
Speaker 2: The Force Awakens is it just feels too much like
21:31
Speaker 2: a New Hope reading.
21:32
Speaker 3: I still I'll still go down swinging all the way
21:35
Speaker 3: to the end to my last day saying it's a read,
21:37
Speaker 3: it's it's return of the Jedi. It treats Return of
21:40
Speaker 3: the Jedi as it does, as if it doesn't exist.
21:42
Speaker 3: I think it's bigger sin. Isn't just that it's redoing
21:45
Speaker 3: a new hope. I think that's redoing Return of the Jedi.
21:48
Speaker 3: That's what I dislike most about The Force Awakens. But
21:51
Speaker 3: like you know, in terms of flipping it and giving
21:55
Speaker 3: Finn that that goal, and they're like, you know, I
21:58
Speaker 3: because you made reference to it, Matt, I absolutely would
22:03
Speaker 3: not redeem Kylo Rennert.
22:06
Speaker 4: I would have.
22:06
Speaker 3: Him, Yeah, absolutely incapable of being redeemed at the end
22:11
Speaker 3: of this second one. Like I don't want the audience
22:14
Speaker 3: even hoping that there's I want the audience hoping at
22:17
Speaker 3: the end of the second one that he's dead, that
22:19
Speaker 3: that that okay, fine, he'll come back for the last go.
22:22
Speaker 4: But we're okay, okay. So I got a question here,
22:25
Speaker 4: because it's never really fully explained in The Force Awakens,
22:28
Speaker 4: nor is it ever really fully explained at all. When
22:32
Speaker 4: Kylo says I'm going to Darth Vader's helmet, I'm going
22:35
Speaker 4: to complete what she started. What exactly is the completion
22:39
Speaker 4: that he's attempting. Is it the destruction of the Oh
22:43
Speaker 4: is it you know, what is it? Is it the
22:45
Speaker 4: destruction of the Jedi? Is it the destruction of the rebellion?
22:49
Speaker 4: You know, the Resistance? Oh, you know, it's very muddy.
22:54
Speaker 4: That's that's the problem. It can be so many.
22:55
Speaker 3: Things, right, Well, but to that point, it's just evidence
22:59
Speaker 3: that when they were writing The Force Awakens, they didn't
23:02
Speaker 3: actually understand the point like bringing balance to the Force.
23:05
Speaker 4: They had no idea what the helped. Well, yeah, they
23:07
Speaker 4: thought it was I'm gonna finish. They thought it was
23:08
Speaker 4: a numbers game that we have so many good guys
23:11
Speaker 4: over here that are of the Light side and so
23:13
Speaker 4: many bad guys and that's balanced. So it's like, well,
23:15
Speaker 4: that's not balance according to George. So so what exactly
23:19
Speaker 4: are you attempting to what? Well do you attempting to finish?
23:24
Speaker 3: Yeah?
23:25
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's part of this film though, that
23:28
Speaker 2: you want to dive into what it is that Kylo
23:33
Speaker 2: Wren believes. And this is where I think, you know,
23:37
Speaker 2: creating an actual character out of Snoke would be really important. Right,
23:42
Speaker 2: What is it that Snoke has been feeding him? And
23:46
Speaker 2: I think what might be kind of interesting is to
23:50
Speaker 2: have Snoke feeding Kylo Wren the lie that Really it's
24:00
Speaker 2: it is, you know, the Jedi that are evil. It
24:04
Speaker 2: is it is this idea of that that are evil
24:06
Speaker 2: and again kind of being able to you know, this
24:10
Speaker 2: is where I think you can kind of even point
24:13
Speaker 2: back to the prequels in the sense of like having
24:16
Speaker 2: him seduced. And I think what we need very clearly
24:21
Speaker 2: in this film, and this is where I think we
24:23
Speaker 2: have to get our heads together around this because what
24:27
Speaker 2: was it We have to answer the question, what was
24:30
Speaker 2: it that Snoke was able to capture Kylo Wren's imagination
24:35
Speaker 2: and teach him whatever truth quote unquote it was that
24:41
Speaker 2: he opened his eyes to to make him think that
24:46
Speaker 2: Vader and the Empire before his you know, salvation in
24:50
Speaker 2: Return of the Jedi was actually the truth, which was
24:55
Speaker 2: actually the right thing to do, which was actually the virtue, right,
25:00
Speaker 2: because that's how Kylo Wren seems to be treating Vader
25:04
Speaker 2: in the Emperor's mission as the Empire right. So what so.
25:13
Speaker 4: What I would do, And to John's point, I don't
25:16
Speaker 4: think you should redeem kyler Ren, but I think something
25:19
Speaker 4: should happen to the character. A major thing that should
25:21
Speaker 4: happen to the character. Snoke should basically just be He's
25:26
Speaker 4: basically Gerbels, you know, if you're going the Nazi route,
25:30
Speaker 4: he's a Charlatan. He really doesn't have any serious force abilities.
25:35
Speaker 4: You know, it's a show. And he's just convinced Kyler
25:40
Speaker 4: Wren that he is this powerful force user and he's
25:44
Speaker 4: basically using and he's yes, and he's basically using Kylo's
25:48
Speaker 4: power to facilitate his own rise to power. And at
25:54
Speaker 4: some point in time it's got a flip and Kylo
25:56
Speaker 4: has to realize that, oh, I'm just being used here.
25:59
Speaker 4: I'm the real guy in charge, and I need to
26:04
Speaker 4: take my rightful place as run in this galaxy or
26:09
Speaker 4: you know, whatever this thing is. I think the idea
26:13
Speaker 4: of because the problem with Snoke is you get into
26:16
Speaker 4: the Emperor problem. You know, he's just he's just the
26:18
Speaker 4: re embodiment of the Emperor, and then you get all
26:21
Speaker 4: this what is he is he a clone? Is he
26:23
Speaker 4: of this? And I think I think he should just
26:25
Speaker 4: be a complete Charlotte's And he's maybe has some minimal
26:29
Speaker 4: force abilities, maybe doesn't have any at all, and it's
26:32
Speaker 4: all just tricks and he's just somehow convinced Kylo that
26:38
Speaker 4: he is this massive force user and he should follow
26:41
Speaker 4: him because you know, everybody's holding him back. His parents
26:45
Speaker 4: are holding him back. You know, Luke is holding him
26:48
Speaker 4: back from his true power. You know that kind of thing.
26:53
Speaker 3: See I I I could go back and forth very easily.
26:57
Speaker 3: I think making Snoke a force user is a mistake.
27:01
Speaker 3: But in the Force Awagens, he says I will complete
27:04
Speaker 3: his training, so it's like, yes, it's tough to communicate
27:08
Speaker 3: easily that he's limited. I would have gone the route,
27:12
Speaker 3: if you're going to have him be a force user,
27:15
Speaker 3: that he was like a secret apprentice of Vader. The
27:17
Speaker 3: reason he lionizes Vader and ignores the emperor is because
27:21
Speaker 3: Vader was grooming him before Luke came along. And so
27:25
Speaker 3: that's why Snoke hates Luke so much, is because Luke
27:28
Speaker 3: took the future away from Snoke. So Snoke is taking
27:32
Speaker 3: the future away from Luke by going after Ben and
27:35
Speaker 3: Ray trying to destroy the family, because he should have
27:40
Speaker 3: been ruling the galaxy with Vader, and Luke undercut him.
27:44
Speaker 3: I love the idea that he was some sort of
27:48
Speaker 3: I also love the idea that he was some sort
27:50
Speaker 3: of official in the empire who was a propagandist like
27:54
Speaker 3: you're saying, you know, like the Gebels character where it's
27:57
Speaker 3: like he's really good at the lie. But I think
28:00
Speaker 3: you can find a way to like blend this like.
28:01
Speaker 2: We kind of saw an and or right like that
28:04
Speaker 2: there was a basically he was the head of that.
28:06
Speaker 3: Team something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And you know,
28:12
Speaker 3: I think you can also have because the thing is
28:14
Speaker 3: kas In I remember very specifically Kasden saying in the
28:17
Speaker 3: lead up to The Force Awakens that Snoke had a
28:21
Speaker 3: history tied to something that happened in the original trilogy. Yep,
28:25
Speaker 3: something happened to him. And I'm like, well, that's how
28:28
Speaker 3: you can bring that is have him tied to Vader.
28:30
Speaker 3: That's why he lionizes Vader. He uses, I'll tell you
28:34
Speaker 3: the real story about your grandfather, who he really was,
28:38
Speaker 3: what the Republic did to him, and why he had
28:41
Speaker 3: to do what he did because you're going to make
28:43
Speaker 3: things right. I love that idea. I think those two
28:46
Speaker 3: ideas can somehow get blended together to work effectively for
28:50
Speaker 3: who Snoke is. But Snoke, the only thing I think
28:54
Speaker 3: that we're sort of shadow acknowledging here about episode eight
29:00
Speaker 3: as being correct is that Snoke did need to die
29:05
Speaker 3: Wren needs to take him out so that he is
29:07
Speaker 3: ascendant and totally in command in the third And you know,
29:13
Speaker 3: that's what makes the the third one a shame, is
29:17
Speaker 3: bringing the emperor back in. Like you undercut any potential
29:20
Speaker 3: positive momentum from Kylo killing Snoke. You make him secondary again.
29:26
Speaker 3: That's no good, It's useless.
29:29
Speaker 4: Anyway.
29:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that the idea of having snow capped
29:37
Speaker 2: this connection with with Vader, and you know, having had
29:45
Speaker 2: you know, the undercutting of all of their plans with
29:50
Speaker 2: with Luke is a really great storyline and I think
29:54
Speaker 2: it creates a real motivation. I'd also be interested in having,
30:02
Speaker 2: you know, in some of the materials that they had
30:05
Speaker 2: written outside of the actual movies. The books had this
30:11
Speaker 2: inclination that Snoke was a character that people knew of,
30:16
Speaker 2: you know, in the government and stuff. But I think
30:19
Speaker 2: it would be a little bit more interesting that, instead
30:22
Speaker 2: of going basically the prequel route in that sense, to
30:27
Speaker 2: go a slightly different route and have him having been
30:33
Speaker 2: a character who united these underworld factions and that's what
30:41
Speaker 2: allowed him, you know, he's hiring bounty hunters to still
30:44
Speaker 2: children and that kind of stuff like that. Basically he
30:48
Speaker 2: did what Darth Maul was trying to do in the
30:53
Speaker 2: prequel series. He goes that route instead of the Palpatine
30:57
Speaker 2: route of you know, kind of being the character that
31:00
Speaker 2: people knew of in the government and that kind of
31:03
Speaker 2: thing and it being a faction that splits off. I
31:06
Speaker 2: think it would be much more interesting to have him
31:09
Speaker 2: be doing all of this stuff from behind the veneer
31:14
Speaker 2: of these criminal organizations and them not realize the two
31:19
Speaker 2: are connected. And that would be really fascinating because I
31:22
Speaker 2: think that would also be something that would be a
31:24
Speaker 2: revelation we would find out with you know, the search
31:29
Speaker 2: that Poe and Finn are doing. Because I also think
31:32
Speaker 2: that this whole mystery of unraveling the first order, how
31:38
Speaker 2: it's been creating these armies, you know, and all that
31:43
Speaker 2: creates kind of that fun vibe that we got in
31:46
Speaker 2: episode two, right where obi Wan goes on you know,
31:50
Speaker 2: the mystery hunt. And so I think that's another way
31:54
Speaker 2: to kind of bring in some element elements and storytelling
31:58
Speaker 2: styles from that prequel era where we're kind of rhyming
32:01
Speaker 2: and stuff, but without just completely repeating. And again, this
32:06
Speaker 2: creates a new storyline because it's not about uh, you know,
32:11
Speaker 2: getting the first order being a political faction. It's really
32:17
Speaker 2: more even under uh, it's even kind of more terrifying
32:23
Speaker 2: than that.
32:25
Speaker 3: But but here here's the question. Like, I think a
32:28
Speaker 3: lot of great ideas are flying around right here, but
32:30
Speaker 3: there's one thing that I suddenly realize we have not
32:34
Speaker 3: been able to address. And this is another problem with
32:37
Speaker 3: the way things were set up, but has to be addressed,
32:41
Speaker 3: is what do we do with Leah in this What
32:45
Speaker 3: is she doing? We can't just have her get blown
32:50
Speaker 3: into space and fly back or something like that and
32:53
Speaker 3: have her lay in a bed fit. Yeah, that that'd
32:58
Speaker 3: be absolutely crazy, just sideline the character and have her
33:01
Speaker 3: be in like two scenes and whatever. But like, what
33:05
Speaker 3: what do we do with her? What can be done
33:07
Speaker 3: with Leah? I'm open to ideas.
33:09
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, obviously there has to be a continuation of
33:13
Speaker 4: the battle between you know, the Star Killer based battle.
33:18
Speaker 4: There has to be a follow up battle, you know,
33:20
Speaker 4: because they know where they're at, and she would have
33:23
Speaker 4: to lead the troops there at that point in time,
33:27
Speaker 4: and I think it would give I think it would
33:30
Speaker 4: give her a lot of ability, you know. I think,
33:32
Speaker 4: you know, kind of doing the classic Lucasium. We're cutting
33:35
Speaker 4: back to multiple storylines. So we've got Poe and Finn
33:39
Speaker 4: over here, We've got we've got Ray and Luke over here,
33:43
Speaker 4: and we've got Leah and the Resistance trying to hold out.
33:47
Speaker 4: That's one idea I thought worked okay with episode eight,
33:51
Speaker 4: this idea that they're trying to hold out to the
33:54
Speaker 4: last minute. That's fine, that part works perfectly, Okay. I
33:58
Speaker 4: just hated the way it ended up being a slow
34:01
Speaker 4: speed you know chase with that was just ridiculous. But
34:06
Speaker 4: they needed some kind of final batt you know, some
34:09
Speaker 4: kind of battle whether she's trying to protect you know,
34:12
Speaker 4: what's the left of the resistance, so they can facilitate
34:16
Speaker 4: their own escape, almost kind of like hawth you know
34:18
Speaker 4: that the Empire knows they're there, Boom, we're coming, and
34:23
Speaker 4: we've got to hold out as long as we can
34:25
Speaker 4: until the ships can get away and we can get
34:27
Speaker 4: away and get as many people out of here as possible.
34:30
Speaker 2: So I was also thinking that for me, the storyline
34:35
Speaker 2: for her would be really interesting to actually get to
34:38
Speaker 2: see the thing that we you know, I think one
34:43
Speaker 2: of the things in the EU that was a really
34:45
Speaker 2: interesting choice for her, which was was to not have
34:48
Speaker 2: her go just the easy Jedi route right away, but
34:52
Speaker 2: actually see her be the politician to pick up where
34:56
Speaker 2: bail Organa had left off what he had taught her,
34:59
Speaker 2: the idea of base sickly kind of seeing her, you know,
35:03
Speaker 2: having had picked up the mantle from uh Mon Mathma
35:07
Speaker 2: and and and having to be the force then in
35:10
Speaker 2: this movie that actually works. As you know, Poe and
35:15
Speaker 2: Finn are on their mission. Her mission is about trying
35:19
Speaker 2: to galvanize the little that's left of the Republic and
35:25
Speaker 2: planets that were friendly to them to mount some kind
35:30
Speaker 2: of resistance, right uh. And And to me, that would
35:33
Speaker 2: be really interesting to you know, to allow us to
35:36
Speaker 2: not be afraid to have some politics, right, you know,
35:42
Speaker 2: and none of us shied away from the fact that
35:45
Speaker 2: there were politics in in the prequels, and then we
35:47
Speaker 2: loved what they did in the Clone Wars. So I
35:50
Speaker 2: think in some ways, having her be able to kind
35:52
Speaker 2: of be the character that her mother was in the
35:57
Speaker 2: in the prequel trilogy, yeah, uh and and really see
36:02
Speaker 2: Lea be able to shine in that way, I think
36:04
Speaker 2: it would be such a wonderful love letter to the
36:10
Speaker 2: character of Padme And and I think it would be great.
36:13
Speaker 4: I've got it.
36:15
Speaker 3: Have her go off, have the you know, have them
36:18
Speaker 3: get away from the First Order in the beginning, have
36:21
Speaker 3: her go to a friendly planet, like a neutral area,
36:25
Speaker 3: maybe Battu, who knows, no, I'm just kidding, but like,
36:28
Speaker 3: have her go to a neutral area and the planet's like,
36:31
Speaker 3: we're not going to get involved in this war. We
36:33
Speaker 3: refuse to do this. She's a friend, she's an ally here,
36:35
Speaker 3: she's a friend here. Maybe even have somebody come down
36:38
Speaker 3: as an emissary from the First Order or something like that,
36:41
Speaker 3: and the First Order does something that then turns this
36:45
Speaker 3: neutral planet and we see it as like a symbolic thing.
36:48
Speaker 3: The neutral planet then says, oh, we can't be on
36:50
Speaker 3: the sidelines for this fight, and somehow we get some
36:54
Speaker 3: sort of messaging that what Lea does, what Leya does
36:57
Speaker 3: with that is galvanize other to do and fight thereby
37:01
Speaker 3: setting up in the last one, the big she.
37:03
Speaker 4: Could give like an impassioned speech like her mother would
37:06
Speaker 4: do on the SENEP floor and it's broadcast galaxy wide
37:10
Speaker 4: and people actually respond to it because they remember, you know,
37:13
Speaker 4: they kind of that whole fog that's kind of like established,
37:17
Speaker 4: you know that everybody's forgotten everything. The veils kind of lifted,
37:21
Speaker 4: and everybody kind of remembers, Oh, yeah, I remember Leo
37:24
Speaker 4: Organa and the Empire, you know, and yeah, I don't
37:27
Speaker 4: want to live through that again.
37:28
Speaker 3: So and the and the catalyst to get everybody into
37:31
Speaker 3: action is at the First Order decide they can't get this.
37:34
Speaker 3: The broadcast is shut down, so Hucks is like, just
37:36
Speaker 3: destroy the building, and for a moment, we think Ley
37:39
Speaker 3: is dead because they destroy the building they think they're
37:41
Speaker 3: broadcasting from, but she's alive. This planet's like, oh, we
37:45
Speaker 3: got a fight. We're getting signals from everywhere. And that's
37:49
Speaker 3: what makes the First Order have to turn tail and
37:50
Speaker 3: run at the end of this one is because suddenly
37:53
Speaker 3: the galaxies like they witness the horror and they're like, oh,
37:56
Speaker 3: we can't be asleep anymore. Thereby setting up okay, in
38:00
Speaker 3: part three, we're gonna get the battle to end all battles.
38:03
Speaker 4: I like it.
38:04
Speaker 2: I think that I think that's a really great idea.
38:07
Speaker 2: And again I think, you know, talking through this, and
38:12
Speaker 2: this is just if you're in any writer's room. You know,
38:17
Speaker 2: my wife and I just finished, uh for her first time,
38:20
Speaker 2: watching all of Star Trek, the Nation Generation and each
38:24
Speaker 2: of the Blu ray H series has a documentary, a
38:29
Speaker 2: two part documentary or sometimes three part documentary about that season,
38:34
Speaker 2: and you know, it's just so interesting listening to the
38:37
Speaker 2: writers talk about creating these characters in the series and
38:41
Speaker 2: how they you know, grew into it and figured it out,
38:43
Speaker 2: you know, and what it takes to be a writer,
38:45
Speaker 2: you know, and to hammer out ideas from what you've
38:50
Speaker 2: created and not necessarily you know those shows, right, they're
38:55
Speaker 2: making it up as they go along, right, you know,
38:57
Speaker 2: there's there's continuity that they have to behold to, but
39:03
Speaker 2: everything that they're you know, yeah, so, but I think
39:07
Speaker 2: I think this is one of those things too, is
39:09
Speaker 2: that it if you were going to create the prequel,
39:15
Speaker 2: you know, the sequel trilogy like this, and you were
39:19
Speaker 2: going to allow you know, people to have their hands
39:21
Speaker 2: in the pie because you didn't come up with, you know,
39:27
Speaker 2: the whole story at the beginning.
39:30
Speaker 3: You know.
39:30
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that that you know,
39:33
Speaker 2: really helps George in the creation of the prequel trilogy
39:37
Speaker 2: is that those three years, you know, he had the
39:40
Speaker 2: basic outlines of all the stuff he was going to
39:43
Speaker 2: do from a very long time ago, right, but there
39:46
Speaker 2: are changes that he made into the story based off
39:49
Speaker 2: of just even the reception of the film, you know,
39:53
Speaker 2: and it and and the time to really sit down,
39:55
Speaker 2: because you know, George would sit down after the last
39:58
Speaker 2: one came out, get out his Leo pad and start
40:01
Speaker 2: writing the script for the next one, right and so.
40:05
Speaker 3: Well and just just just interject really quick. Sorry, Like
40:08
Speaker 3: there was there were people pressuring him. I think Joe
40:11
Speaker 3: Johnston was one of them, pressuring him, is like, oh,
40:13
Speaker 3: why don't you just shoot all three at the same time?
40:15
Speaker 3: And you know, to your point, Lucas specifically, like he
40:19
Speaker 3: cited that, and he said, no, I want to take
40:21
Speaker 3: my time between these things for all the reasons you're
40:24
Speaker 3: citing that. So like there is wisdom in that that
40:27
Speaker 3: it doesn't become a smash mouth cash grab thing. It's
40:33
Speaker 3: you know, like you said, he's actually listening to the
40:36
Speaker 3: audience and he's like, Okay, well we'll do something a
40:38
Speaker 3: little bit different because you didn't like this part of
40:40
Speaker 3: it that I did.
40:41
Speaker 4: We'll see and then go ahead, go ahead, finish what
40:43
Speaker 4: you were saying.
40:44
Speaker 2: Now, Well, I'm just gonna say and and and look,
40:47
Speaker 2: I might not be the world's biggest James Cameron fan,
40:50
Speaker 2: but you know, the time period between Avatar one and
40:53
Speaker 2: Avatar two.
40:55
Speaker 3: I think civilizations rose and fell in that time.
40:59
Speaker 2: You know, Rome came and went again and so but no,
41:03
Speaker 2: I think one of the beauties that actually happened there
41:06
Speaker 2: is that he was able to sit with this world
41:09
Speaker 2: and the story, and he crafted a much better story
41:14
Speaker 2: for the second film than was in the first one, right,
41:18
Speaker 2: And I think it wasn't just the visuals that won
41:21
Speaker 2: people over, but they were more pulled into not just
41:24
Speaker 2: the world, but the actual characterization and the story itself
41:28
Speaker 2: in that second film. And you know, who knows as
41:31
Speaker 2: we sit here, the third film in that one comes
41:35
Speaker 2: out in a week, so we'll see how people respond then.
41:39
Speaker 2: But again, there's there's just wisdom to sitting with your
41:43
Speaker 2: story and thinking about because I think the other thing
41:48
Speaker 2: that this allows you to and I think we all
41:50
Speaker 2: know this as people in general, When we rush things,
41:54
Speaker 2: we forget important elements, even to the very things to
41:58
Speaker 2: which we're most in quote unquote tune with. And it's
42:04
Speaker 2: it's you know, if you've ever written something, or if
42:09
Speaker 2: you've ever had to give a speech or whatever, you know,
42:13
Speaker 2: if you want it to be really good, you don't
42:15
Speaker 2: write it the day you give it. Yeah, you think
42:19
Speaker 2: about it, you let it percolate in your mind, and
42:22
Speaker 2: then you begin to create an outline, and then you
42:24
Speaker 2: begin to refine that outline, and then you put it
42:28
Speaker 2: down as a full speech, and then you keep reading
42:30
Speaker 2: through it and you practice it, and you're like, oh,
42:33
Speaker 2: if I say it this way, it doesn't feel right.
42:35
Speaker 2: But if I say it this way, man, it really
42:37
Speaker 2: hums the same thing I think happens, you know, for
42:40
Speaker 2: for good storytellers, right, And this is one of the reasons,
42:45
Speaker 2: like doing this is an exercise I just think is
42:47
Speaker 2: interesting because our thought process of Okay, Force Awakens was
42:52
Speaker 2: the first one, well, we got to go off what
42:55
Speaker 2: we gave ourselves and we got to figure that out.
42:59
Speaker 2: And so what are all well, you know, you'd have
43:01
Speaker 2: to put on the whiteboard, what are all the important
43:03
Speaker 2: points of the Force Awakens? What are all the hanging
43:06
Speaker 2: chads as the kids might say from nineteen ninety two?
43:11
Speaker 2: And how do we follow up on all of these
43:14
Speaker 2: questions in the next one and then possibly leave maybe
43:18
Speaker 2: things to be you know, open for the third film.
43:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, I am. I think I think we've given like
43:26
Speaker 3: a really good shape to what our episode eight would
43:29
Speaker 3: look like. But we're in this ideal writer's room. What
43:34
Speaker 3: are we leaving open? I think we all agree, you know,
43:37
Speaker 3: to what you're saying, Matt, right, What am I also
43:40
Speaker 3: setting up with this? What do I also have the
43:43
Speaker 3: responsibility to point toward, even if it resolves a little
43:47
Speaker 3: bit differently. What do I have the responsibility to point
43:50
Speaker 3: toward in this one? We all agree we point toward
43:55
Speaker 3: Kylo Ren is the full leader in the third one.
43:57
Speaker 3: We have to set that up here, and we have
44:01
Speaker 3: to make it clear that this is not a redemption
44:03
Speaker 3: story for him. That is not his arc, right, so
44:07
Speaker 3: he's not our main character in so he is.
44:10
Speaker 4: I have some I have some thoughts because I love
44:13
Speaker 4: your plan. I love your finale with the neutral planet,
44:17
Speaker 4: and I think that's a way to bring all three
44:18
Speaker 4: parts together. Because Finn and Poe are rushing back with
44:23
Speaker 4: what little troops they have to help defend this kind
44:25
Speaker 4: of neutral world, and Luke has kind of gotten ray
44:30
Speaker 4: where she's her training is near completion, maybe not completely complete,
44:36
Speaker 4: and the both of them run back to this neutral
44:38
Speaker 4: planet to defend it. From the first order I would have,
44:42
Speaker 4: so Luke's got to be there when she makes this
44:45
Speaker 4: Some passion speech so everyone can see, Oh, the Jedi
44:47
Speaker 4: are back, you know, the galaxy is haling itself. But
44:53
Speaker 4: I do have to agree with episode eight. Kylo needs
44:58
Speaker 4: to kill Luke. He needs to kill him, but physically
45:03
Speaker 4: kill him, not some spiritual Oh. Luke falls asleep and
45:07
Speaker 4: he's exhausted, and that's the end of that. It's a
45:11
Speaker 4: physical killing, which then allows Then you can allow because
45:14
Speaker 4: even Lucas wanted this, which was Leah to kind of
45:17
Speaker 4: train the next ship. And obviously this is working with
45:21
Speaker 4: the We don't know that Carrie Fisher's you know, gonna die.
45:25
Speaker 4: You know, we're operating from her from that perspective, so
45:28
Speaker 4: we're assuming she'll be around for the third one, which
45:31
Speaker 4: would be fine. She could complete her training at the
45:34
Speaker 4: you know, the very beginning of the film, and she's
45:35
Speaker 4: a fully formed, fully fledged Jedi at the end of U.
45:39
Speaker 4: At the beginning of episode three, Oh oh.
45:43
Speaker 3: I got you know, I got no, I got something
45:47
Speaker 3: that I think is beautiful that ties into that. Luke
45:49
Speaker 3: comes back. He fights Kylo sacrificial action. Luke gets killed.
45:55
Speaker 3: Leah picks up the saber and she obviously is inflicted.
46:00
Speaker 3: I don't want to fight my own son, but I'm
46:04
Speaker 3: going to do this. I'm going to fight my own son,
46:07
Speaker 3: and they fight to a standstill, like you know, Kylo
46:11
Speaker 3: runs away. But that's our big hanging thing is like,
46:13
Speaker 3: is Leah going to have to face him the way
46:17
Speaker 3: that Luke had to go face Vader? Can she go
46:19
Speaker 3: face her son? Which then becomes a rhyme of can
46:23
Speaker 3: I go kill my own father? Right like that, that's
46:27
Speaker 3: an even heavier one to go after. So Leah's holding
46:30
Speaker 3: a saber at the end of this one.
46:32
Speaker 2: I think that's the interesting thing, is too, because the
46:38
Speaker 2: question then that's left hanging for the third film is
46:43
Speaker 2: that Lea's job in the end or will it be.
46:48
Speaker 4: It's it's got to be raised because you're passing there.
46:54
Speaker 2: You're still letting that the question of that third film,
46:58
Speaker 2: what we're talking about, what we're leaving hanging, and and
47:01
Speaker 2: that becomes something that fans would then think, Oh, man,
47:05
Speaker 2: are we setting up a kind of a replay, which.
47:08
Speaker 4: Is kind of cool because that's the kind of stuff
47:10
Speaker 4: we love doing when we were young, debating what was
47:13
Speaker 4: going to happen the next film? What's what's going on?
47:15
Speaker 4: Is Leya really going to fight Kylo? Is what one.
47:20
Speaker 3: One. One other thing I want to throw out there
47:22
Speaker 3: is come hell or high water, I walk from this
47:25
Speaker 3: project and I burn the studio down. If you take
47:29
Speaker 3: Old Greeny away from me. That saber is in this movie.
47:33
Speaker 3: Luke's Jedi light saber is in this in our episode eight.
47:37
Speaker 3: That is non negotiable. I will give up profit points
47:40
Speaker 3: to make sure that that happens.
47:42
Speaker 2: And I think, I think that's the beauty of Then
47:47
Speaker 2: that's the saber that we end with in this film
47:51
Speaker 2: of you know, Leyah holding you know, not that she
47:54
Speaker 2: wouldn't maybe have her own somewhere, but that but but
47:57
Speaker 2: that's you know, when we were left with the first
48:01
Speaker 2: one a lightsaber in hand being held out, this is
48:06
Speaker 2: the one where we leave it with Luke's lightsaber in hand,
48:09
Speaker 2: the one that he had built himself, uh in Leah's hand.
48:14
Speaker 2: And again that acts that, yes, you're you have such
48:20
Speaker 2: an incredibly powerful moment because you really do, as an
48:26
Speaker 2: audience member wonder, oh my gosh, well, I mean, the
48:29
Speaker 2: last time we saw that saber in action, it was
48:32
Speaker 2: you know, it was fighting against Darth Vader, and and
48:35
Speaker 2: Luke was you know, trying to protect his sister because
48:40
Speaker 2: Vader had found out you know, Sista, you know, and
48:43
Speaker 2: so you really are left on this precipice of like,
48:46
Speaker 2: I don't know what's going to happen in this third
48:48
Speaker 2: film and how it's going to resolve itself, but man
48:50
Speaker 2: I can't wait.
48:51
Speaker 3: But and but the thing is Luke is using that
48:55
Speaker 3: saber to defend his sister in Return of the Jedi,
48:58
Speaker 3: and then to get yancied what you're talking about, I
49:00
Speaker 3: will finish what you started. We have a little sort
49:03
Speaker 3: of like love note to that, because Luke dies defending
49:08
Speaker 3: his sister from the new heir to Darth Vader, so
49:12
Speaker 3: you have that whole rhyme. Yes that's her own son.
49:17
Speaker 3: But see, yeah, this is all right. So we're coming
49:21
Speaker 3: out of this. Our next action beat is we invent
49:24
Speaker 3: a time machine and the three of us go back
49:28
Speaker 3: and we beat the snot out of whoever's in the
49:30
Speaker 3: writer's room, and we're like, no, no.
49:31
Speaker 4: No, no, this is what's going to happen.
49:32
Speaker 3: This is what's gonna happen.
49:34
Speaker 4: Trust us.
49:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this is this is look too. I mean,
49:41
Speaker 2: you know, we're not we're not here to say if
49:45
Speaker 2: you liked you know, the last Jedi whatever. This was
49:47
Speaker 2: really just more of a fun exercise for us to
49:50
Speaker 2: do because you know the idea of okay, well, we
49:55
Speaker 2: had all a lot of these questions and and and
49:57
Speaker 2: the the reason this actually came up for me is that,
50:00
Speaker 2: you know, we watched The Force Awakens John and we
50:03
Speaker 2: did the episode with Darren, and I went and watched
50:07
Speaker 2: The Rise of Skywalker and just to kind of see
50:10
Speaker 2: how everything kind of plays out. Where do we go
50:13
Speaker 2: with all these ideas because there are so many questions
50:15
Speaker 2: that are I mean, we talked about JJ is really
50:18
Speaker 2: good about setting up a mystery box. Whether or not
50:22
Speaker 2: he answers him or not, that's a different story. But
50:24
Speaker 2: you know, there were a lot of really interesting questions
50:26
Speaker 2: that are left with that film and of The Force Awakens,
50:34
Speaker 2: and you could, I think, and we I think even
50:37
Speaker 2: proved you can. You could very interestingly have followed up
50:41
Speaker 2: a lot of those lingering threads that we're just waiting
50:46
Speaker 2: for somebody to pull on if you actually wanted to
50:49
Speaker 2: pull on them.
50:49
Speaker 3: And so the one last note, this is our last
50:53
Speaker 3: question I think we need to end on. There's always
50:57
Speaker 3: some new ship news, something that comes in, like looks
51:01
Speaker 3: super cool is super neat cloud City? Looks super cool.
51:06
Speaker 3: But like I remember as a kid, I saw the
51:08
Speaker 3: twin pod Cloud car. Been in love with that design
51:11
Speaker 3: since then. It's one of my favorite ship designs that
51:14
Speaker 3: they ever had. So every single one has some sort
51:18
Speaker 3: of neat design element that we bring in. I still
51:21
Speaker 3: think it's a shame that Trevorro's ship designs. There's the
51:24
Speaker 3: one at Galaxy's ad sure, but that three cockpit tie
51:27
Speaker 3: fighter cool looking, so whimsically fun. What are we tossing
51:33
Speaker 3: out there? What what ship design? What? What can we
51:36
Speaker 3: bring to this that's cool looking? That is gonna be
51:40
Speaker 3: the wow design factor for the audience. And you can't
51:43
Speaker 3: say jetpack storm because they they've always flown.
51:47
Speaker 4: I've always flown. Yeah, I would you know what I
51:51
Speaker 4: would do? I would ditch Luke's X Wing and he
51:58
Speaker 4: had a ship that he got in between trilogies, his
52:02
Speaker 4: own personal ship, and it's it's the coolest looking and
52:07
Speaker 4: it should be some kind of throwback almost to the
52:09
Speaker 4: Skyhopper kind of thing. Maybe I love this.
52:14
Speaker 3: I love that idea, absolutely love it.
52:17
Speaker 4: Yeah.
52:17
Speaker 3: Yeah.
52:17
Speaker 4: See.
52:17
Speaker 2: My my thought was is that because he's at the
52:20
Speaker 2: first Jedi Temple, oh Jedi Starfighter, an original, there's an
52:26
Speaker 2: original starfighter of the original Jedi, that you could create
52:31
Speaker 2: this very interesting maybe, uh you know what I would
52:35
Speaker 2: love to have seen in that is it be like
52:37
Speaker 2: this almost art nouveau style ship that feels very in
52:45
Speaker 2: tune with somebody who is completely immersed in the force,
52:49
Speaker 2: and so it almost feels organic as can as a
52:53
Speaker 2: thing and and metch the way that the technology of
52:58
Speaker 2: Naboo did, you know. And in fact, maybe even kind
53:01
Speaker 2: of harkening back to this idea, you.
53:02
Speaker 3: Can harken the People's Grandmother.
53:05
Speaker 4: You can harken back to some of the design language
53:07
Speaker 4: from the Dark Horses Tales of the Jedi comic. There
53:10
Speaker 4: were some really wonderful old ship designs that you can
53:14
Speaker 4: just borrow elements from them, not wholesale, but something that
53:18
Speaker 4: looks really cool and old.
53:20
Speaker 2: So and I think the last thing that you need
53:24
Speaker 2: to think of is, you know, we obviously saw a
53:28
Speaker 2: first order star destroyer which was super boring. Why it
53:34
Speaker 2: had a split superstructure, I have no idea. And there's
53:36
Speaker 2: just this weird cavern between the two.
53:39
Speaker 4: So you can fly ships in between. They're better to
53:41
Speaker 4: blow up.
53:42
Speaker 2: Stuff because you know they've listened.
53:44
Speaker 3: Let's just make sure everything has a racing stripe in
53:47
Speaker 3: this mode anyway. That makes it cool.
53:48
Speaker 2: But what I think would would be very interesting would
53:53
Speaker 2: be what would to take somebody like uh, you know, Chang,
54:00
Speaker 2: and say, I need you to help us create a
54:05
Speaker 2: new ship that that that is Snoke's personal like First
54:14
Speaker 2: Order ship that has its own unique feel to it,
54:18
Speaker 2: that that doesn't just feel like a larger star destroyer
54:22
Speaker 2: or an you know, executor or you know, any of
54:26
Speaker 2: those things. We need this to create the new design
54:31
Speaker 2: language that we're going to go forward with for the
54:33
Speaker 2: First Order that doesn't just feel like, you know, we're
54:38
Speaker 2: just redoing the original trilogy.
54:40
Speaker 3: Love it. I think that is great, gentlemen. I think
54:43
Speaker 3: we have come together and we have planned a fantastic
54:48
Speaker 3: Episode eight. I think this is you know, but Matt,
54:52
Speaker 3: like you're saying, we're having a lot of fun here.
54:54
Speaker 3: Everybody knows our opinions on stuff. If you love episode eight,
54:58
Speaker 3: we're not ragging on you, We're not coming for you.
55:00
Speaker 3: We're not saying anything like your mileage may vary with everything. Okay,
55:03
Speaker 3: We're having a lot of fun. I think these are
55:05
Speaker 3: some really interesting ideas that we tossed around out here. Yancey.
55:11
Speaker 3: If people want to yell at you online about this
55:15
Speaker 3: and get really mad that you're overwriting episode eight, where
55:18
Speaker 3: can they find well?
55:19
Speaker 4: My handle on pretty much every social media feed is
55:22
Speaker 4: Galandro one. It's an homage to Brian Daly's han solo
55:27
Speaker 4: novels The Bad Guy Bounty Hunter Galandro just awesome, So
55:31
Speaker 4: galander one, or on on Facebook my stupid name Yancy Evans.
55:36
Speaker 4: You can find me there. I do have a blog
55:39
Speaker 4: I'm eventually getting to. It's just so much life has
55:41
Speaker 4: gotten in the way. It just keeps getting in the
55:45
Speaker 4: way of that. That's at one Saga dot WordPress dot com.
55:48
Speaker 4: I'll be launching that. I'll probably be after the holiday
55:50
Speaker 4: as I'll be relaunching that, So that's where you can
55:53
Speaker 4: find me. Awesome, Matt, Where can people find you?
55:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, if you want to yell at me
56:01
Speaker 2: on Twitter, you can also find me at the Insane
56:04
Speaker 2: Robin I'm just kidding. You can also find me at
56:07
Speaker 2: the Jedi Masters with the show, or of course you
56:12
Speaker 2: can find me at Matt Rushing zero too, all the
56:16
Speaker 2: social media platforms. Just search that. If I'm there, that's
56:20
Speaker 2: the name I'll be under. Of course you can find
56:22
Speaker 2: me here on the network with Al Post talking about
56:24
Speaker 2: every single chapter of the Harry Potter series. And then
56:26
Speaker 2: over on the TFM network, got a lot of great shows,
56:28
Speaker 2: a lot of great Star Trek talk with my good
56:30
Speaker 2: friend Chris Jones, plus the six oh two Club, which
56:32
Speaker 2: is a show where we talk about all of the
56:35
Speaker 2: franchises we love outside of Star Trek and John. If
56:38
Speaker 2: people wanted to catch up with you, where would they
56:40
Speaker 2: find you?
56:41
Speaker 3: Just look for Castle Junkie. That's my nom de plume online.
56:45
Speaker 3: It's probably most fun to join up in track with
56:47
Speaker 3: me over on Letterbox because I watch more movies than
56:51
Speaker 3: I should, and I have a lot.
56:52
Speaker 4: Of fun with it.
56:53
Speaker 3: And one of the things that keeps me watching so
56:55
Speaker 3: many movies is I appear here on the network with
56:58
Speaker 3: house Lights, where myself, Darren and Tristan we watched the
57:03
Speaker 3: works of directors and we offer our opinions as we
57:07
Speaker 3: record this. We are talking about the works of the
57:09
Speaker 3: nineteen nineties.
57:10
Speaker 4: Of Luke Bissan. Cool.
57:11
Speaker 3: So come on over and join us at house Lights.
57:14
Speaker 3: But Yancey, thank you so much for joining us, and
57:19
Speaker 3: master Rushing, I think it's time to close these negotiations.
57:23
Speaker 2: Negotiations are closed. Join the revolution, Join the Nerd Party,