Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Mega Edition: Lesley Groff's 302 Statement, Her Testimony And The Truth (8/21/26)

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Mega Edition: Lesley Groff's 302 Statement, Her Testimony And The Truth (8/21/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to keep the
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: conversation about Leslie Groff going and we're going to take
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: a look at the three to zero two report that
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: she gave to the FBI. Federal Bureau of Investigation. Leslie
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Groff date of birth redacted was interviewed pursuing to a
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: proffer agreement at thirty nine Broadway, Suite sixteen ten, New York,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: New York. Present for the proffer was Groff's attorney, Michael Backner.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Also present for the proffer was an assistant United States Attorneys
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: redacted and redacted, along with special Agent redacted. After being
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: advised of the identity of the above listed individuals and
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: the nature of the interview, Groff provided the following information.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Groff is in retirement along with her husband. Groff has
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: a redacted son. Groff enjoys exercising and listening to books
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: on tape. Groff resigned in July twenty nineteen from working
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: for Jeffrey Epstein. Groff had started working for Epstein in
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: February of two thousand and one. Graff attended college in
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: North Texas and is a UTD graduate. Groff lived in Texas,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: then met a man who lived in New Jersey, which
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: caused her to move to the area. Groff worked for
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: nine years at an office supply company. Groff then divorced.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Groff then worked at Nordstrom. Groff met her current husband
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: at a triathlon. Groff was still working at Nordstrom at
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: the time. Groff wanted to be an event planner and
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: thought Wall Street would be a great place to work
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: a headhunter. Russell found a resume on Monster. Groff was
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: looking at a job to work for the Knicks, but
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: it was taken. Groff met with Russell and he told
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: her that there was a job to organize one man's life.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: This man was Epstein, a Manhattan socialite. Graff had never
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: heard of Epstein before this. Groff interviewed for the position.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Groff interviewed with redacted redacted, who was Glenn Maxwell, Maxwell's
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: assistant at the time. Then Groff interviewed with maxim Well
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: before interviewing with Epstein. The next day, when he was
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: in town, Groff interviewed at four fifty seven Madison on
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: the fourth floor. This location was part of a palace.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Groff was in the front office before going to Epstein's office.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Groff met with all three people on the same day.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: It was a normal interview about being an executive assistant.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: During the interview, the phone kept bringing. Epstein would talk
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: then hang up. It seemed to be a very vibrant office.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Groff had to sign a non disclosure agreement. If Groff
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: spoke about business people, which Groff thought included Les Wexner,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: she would owe him one hundred thousand dollars. Groff had
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: never seen anything like the non disclosure agreement before working
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: for Epstein. Groff had her own office in the back.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Others that worked at the office were two attorneys, an assistant,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: a trader, a travel assistant redacted or redacted or redacted
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: and redacted. Maxwell came in and out of the office.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Epstein did not work a nine to five schedule. Epstein
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: gave Groff pages, including a call, who he wanted to
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: see and the appointments. Groff had to reorganize and shift
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: things at the time. Groff made all the phone calls,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: including calling the driver, chef, and other people. Groff had
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: two phones on her desk. It was hectic. Grof was
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: told that mistakes were not tolerated. It was challenging, but
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Graff like that. Sometimes Graff went home in tears sometimes
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: for messing up his day. Graff felt it was pretty
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: incredible to see all the people Epstein dealt with in politics, television, etc.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Graff felt wow. Prior to working for Epstein, she never
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: knew people who On the plane Graff found out about
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Maxwell's father in life. Grof felt like Epstein and Maxwell's
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: lives were the lifestyle of the rich and famous. Graff
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: described getting into the office. She would have to go
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: in through the palace and go straight through the hotel portion.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: The left side was where Epstein's office was located. Groff
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: thought on the fourth floor was where the office was located.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: There were other businesses in the building. They had a
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: view of the Fifth Avenue Cathedral. Once off of the elevator,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: there was a desk for the receptionist. Groff could not
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: remember if this was there the day she left. After
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: going straight, there would be a large office for two
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: accountants and the trader. The accountant was Eric Ganey, who
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: had an assistant accountant, Bella Cline. The trader was Harry Beller.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: The person who was Epstein's assistant would be at the
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: receptionist desk. Someone was always there and it changed over time.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: There was redacted, redacted, redacted, redacted, and redacted. The controller
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: was a mad Hanna. When Ganey left, he was replaced
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: by Richard Kahn. To the right of the office where
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: the attorneys Darren Endyke and Jeff Schantz. Straight back was
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Groff's office. Towards the left was Epstein's office, and towards
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: the right was a desk for Maxwell and a assistant redacted.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Lauren Quitner was an assistant the attorneys. There was a
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: desk for redacted, which changed or redacted redacted. When Redacted left.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Epstein wanted an estate manager, which kept turning over. There
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: were a lot of people in the office. They first
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: started building Maxwell's house. After her house was built, she
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: moved her and her assistant to her house. Maxwell was
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: maybe at the office once a week and brought her
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: dog Max. Full time employees, including the attorneys, Quitner, redacted,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: and the people in the front office. Groff worked nine
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: to five Monday through Friday for the first couple of years.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Groff then became pregnant and had a son and was
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: off for about three to four months. Redacted took over
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: while Groff was out on maternity leave. Approximately a year
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: and a half later, Maxwell's assistant left and Redacted moved
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: back to being her assistant. Groff started a job share
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: where she worked Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, and redacted worked
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Monday and Friday. Epstein would leave New York Friday and
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: return Monday night. Epstein wanted Groff the to do the
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: call list. Epstein called in the morning to schedule business
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: meetings architects, designers. When Grof would think he was done,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: he decided he'd want to do it all over again.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Groff remembered seeing an invoice of a carpet for an
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: airplane that was more than she made back then. Groff
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: did not use email. Epstein called constantly. Epstein told her
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: to call a certain individual, then he would want an
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: immediate call back. Grof relaid messages, make and break appointments,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: and contact houses. Groff would have Jojo sit outside certain locations,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: but he did not like. People would come, eat, but
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: he would not. Epstein would not like wasting time. The
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: first time Epstein laid into Grof was when she moved
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: an appointment and forgot to tell the other person. Epstein
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: did not let it go. Groff ruined his whole day,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: saying he can't get that time back. Graff would tell
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: the pilot when Epstein wanted to leave. For example, Graff
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: would tell the pilot he would want to leave tomorrow
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: at four to Palm Beach. Graff did not make airline
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: reservations at the time. Redacted made those reservations. Then Epstein
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: told Groff to tell Redacted to make the reservations. A
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: lot of people traveled on Epstein's plane. Epstein might tell Groff.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: The lingo he used was do you need a ride?
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Graff would call and ask if he wanted friends, then
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Groff would call them. The pilot Larry needed to know,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Groff would ask Epstein, then she would relay that information
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: to Larry. Sometimes Epstein told Groff who was traveling with him,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: and other times he told Larry himself. Groff talked with
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Epstein when he was away. Epstein often traveled with Maxwell.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: The first year, Redacted traveled often with them as well.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Then Redacted traveled with them. The assistants traveled with Epstein.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Ted Meister was on a plane a lot. He liked
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: to go to Palm Beach. Maxwell and Redacted, we're usually
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: on the plane with Epstein, Maxwell traveled quite a bit.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: Groff thought Maxwell did her own thing. Groff was not
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Maxwell's assistant and did not see her as much. Maxwell
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: was a big part of Epstein's life. Maxwell introduced Epstein
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: to a lot of people in her circle. This was
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Groff's perception, because Groff knew her background. Groff's impression was
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: that she knew that was how Epstein met Royalty through Maxwell.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Maxwell did not talk to Groff. Groff never had a
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: normal conversation with Maxwell or Epstein. Maxwell told Groff she
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: was not to engage in frivolous conversation with Epstein. If
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Groff bought movie tickets for Epstein, she was not allowed
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: to ask if he liked the movie. The next day.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Groff did not have a lot to do with the
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Clinton trip. Maxwell dealt with the details. Groff perception was
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: that Maxwell knew Clinton first, but Groff did not know
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: for sure. Groff recalled conversations with Maxwell in the beginning,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: probably around Groff's first week. Maxwell told her you're here
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: to work. Maxwell told her that Epstein did not need
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: extra conversation and that she was not allowed to fratnize
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: on the phone. That the people she spoke to were
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Epstein's friends, not Groff's friends, and Graff found this similar
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: to Wall Street and that she could not fratnize. Groff
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: was asked to go to a party. This was probably
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: within the first month of working for Epstein. Graf went
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: to the party with her husband, who knew other Wall
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Street people. Epstein found out and torched her. The following monday,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Epstein told Groff he was going to fire her, but
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: put her on probation instead. Groff had to keep herself
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: totally separate. It made sense to Groff, so she never
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: did it again. From the beginning, massage was a part
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: of Epstein's day. There were normal appointments. Groff thought Maxwell
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: told her that Epstein had to have a massage every day.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Redacted and redacted trained Groff too, but Groff thought Maxwell
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: told her that it was presented like it was totally normal.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: Redacted and redacted had been there prior to Groff. No
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: one seemed like it was out of the ordinary. Graff's
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: job was to make appointments to Groff. Making massage appointments
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: was just another appointment that she had to make for Epstein.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Epstein would call Groff in the morning and say something
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: like call redacted and see if she can do a
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: massage at four. Epstein would then call Groff every fifteen minutes.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: If Groff told Epstein that she could not get redacted,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: he would tell Graff to call someone else. There was
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: a directory of contacts, not just massage people. Anyone could
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: go in and update the list. Everyone had access. It
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: was just kept on the computer in an old, antiquated system.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Groff thought it was just a file on the computer.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: They used PCs, not Apple computers. They had a message
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: sheet and directory. There was an it guy who came
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: every so often if they had computer problems. When Grof
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: was told to call someone, she would pull the phone
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: number from the directory. Epstein gave Groff a name and
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: phone number, but if the person had been around for
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: a while, the number would be in the computer. For
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: massages in New York at Epstein's residence, Groff scheduled for
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: New York. Graff thought she may have scheduled massage for
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Epstein's pom Beach residence, but it was not as much.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: When Epstein left New York and took an assistant with him,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: the assistant took over the daily things in Palm Beach,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: New Mexico, and Paris. Groff had a call list every
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: day of people she had to call for Epstein outside
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: of New York. Graff did not know who scheduled the
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: massage appointments. Graff did not recall specifically making appointments outside
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: of New York, but stated that it was possible. Graff
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: definitely made appointments in New York. Grot that Maxwell made
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: an extra book. Groff described the book as super thick
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: that was printed in a larger type to see. It
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: was a little black book. Maxwell had them printed and bound.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Graff thought she wanted to have them on the plane
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: or next to the phones. Groff recalled seeing one on
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: her desk. The black books were around. There was one
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: on Groff's desk when she first started working there. They
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: were next to Epstein's phones on the desk. Groff did
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: not know why she associated the books to Maxwell. They
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: were there before Groff worked there. Groff thought that the
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: books had been updated. Graff did not know where they
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: were printed. Graff did not use the books. She used
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: a computer. Groff thought the books were everywhere, but maybe
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: not in the accounting office. The books were at his
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: homes they were on the desk and rooms. There were
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: a lot of important people in the books and their
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: phone numbers, including politicians, actors, Wall Street individuals, and royalty.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Groff was not supposed to take the book home. Graff
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: thought that the book fizzled out. It made sense that
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Epstein wanted them next to the phones. It was a
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: tool for contacts. The book went away, but Graff did
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: not know when this happened. They changed over to Mac computers.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Epstein wanted to keep things simple. Epstein wanted a list
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: of dentists, scientists, etc. Graft did not think that she
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: was there when the directory was first made, but she
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: was not sure. Maxwell was an office manager and had
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: stationary made. Maxwell may have asked redacted to have them made.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Groff thought maybe she was assuming that Maxwell made them
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Agent note. At this point in the interview, Groff was
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: shown a document with a list of names and contact information.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: This document is attached in one a Graff advised, this
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: looks like people he'd contact. Groff did not recognize this
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: specific document, but it looked like something Groff could have
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: typed up. Graff recognized the names on the document. It
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: seemed typical of when Epstein with travel a word document
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: possibly could have been Groff, who copied and pasted from
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: the directory to word using a Mac computer. Grof could
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: copy and paste, but she did not think she could
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: copy and paste a word using the older computers. The
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: list of people's names and numbers was constant. Agent note.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Groff was shown a document titled messuses. This document is
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: attached in one A. Graff advised that this document looked
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: like something that would definitely be in the office that
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein asked to be put together. There were other documents
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: made for architects, et cetera. Graff advised this document did
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: not look familiar. Groff did not recall making this document,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: but stated she was not saying that she did not
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: create it. Graff advised the document looked old. Groff recognized
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: the names. To Groff, this was just another list. Graff
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: recalled having to make a list of all the ted
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: speakers when she started. The list printed out would be
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: more for Epstein to take with them. Groff used the
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: directory more agent note. Groff was shown a document with
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: the title massuses from January. This document is attached in
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: one A. Groff's first thought was that jan men January
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: new user on the document was not significant to Groff.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: The document stated last saved by Leslie Groff. Graff advised,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: this look like a list that she could have put together.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: This was definitely something Epstein would have wanted. It looks
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: like something Groff could have done, but she cannot recall
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: this specific list. Groff made a lot of lists. If
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Epstein traveled out of town, he would want to see people.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Sometimes he would tell Groff to add new people. He
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: went to Harvard, he would want a list of professors
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: he would want to talk with while he was there.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: When Groff would call the schedule massage appointments, she would
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: say something like, high redacted, how are you. Mister Epstein's
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: in New York and he's wanting to know if you
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: can give him a massage at four. The phone calls
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: were short and to the point. A lot of times
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: when Groff called, the females were at casting calls and
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: they would not know how long they would be there,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: so they would have to call Groff back. When Epstein
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: would call back for his massage, he would tell Groff
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: to forget that one and call redacted. Groff would call
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: someone else and sometimes have to leave a message. Sometimes
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Groff heard street noises in the background. Groff called females
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: and mel massuse. Groff distinctly remembered females being on casting
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: calls because it was annoying because she wanted to get
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: on with her day and could not because she had
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: to schedule a massage appointment. Scheduling massage appointments was around
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: one percent of Groff's job. Groff left a lot of messages.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: People would not answer their phones. Sometimes people call Groff
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: asking to see Epstein for a massage. Everybody wanted to
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: see him anytime Groff called someone, not just massage people.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: People just jumped to meet with Epstein. Graff thought that
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Epstein was a money manager. His biggest client was Wexner.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Groff knew this from the beginning because of the non
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: disclosure agreement she had to sign. Graff thought that Epstein
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: had other clients. Graff thought Epstein was doing some trades.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Epstein would tell Groff to get someone he did not
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: have the number of a trader. Groff had anxiety trying
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: to get a trader. Epstein did a lot with politics.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Epstein was a generous person who gave to charity tables
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: and wanted to be anonymous. Epstein seemed very busy. Epstein
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: had an interest in decorating. Groff was ful by the
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: contacts he had all over the world. Graff was impressed
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: by that Groff had to learn how to dial overseas numbers.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Maxwell was an office manager. This was how Groff was
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: introduced to Maxwell. Maxwell was Epstein's best friend. Graff saw
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Epstein torch Maxwell at times. He was angry with her.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Epstein got mad at his attorneys in the office. Sometimes
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Maxwell left with her head down. Graff did not like
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: hering Epstein yell at chance, but he did not walk
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: out defeated. Epstein and Maxwell were confidants. Graff knew Epstein
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: built maxwell Or house. Graff thought redacted told her this
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: it was just bought and under construction. Graff thought that
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Epstein and Maxwell were boyfriend and girlfriend. They were very
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: care free. They did not spend every moment together. Groff
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: thought that Epstein cared for Maxwell and she cared for him.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Epstein and Maxwell did not live together. Graff did not
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: know where Maxwell was living while her house was being built.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: When Graft first started Maxwell help with the rules, Maxwell
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: told her that when Epstein calls Groff to give requirements.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: If Graft did not understand something, to stop them then
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: and do not wait until the end, because it'll make
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Epstein mad. Epstein was famous for talking under his breath
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: and mumbling. Graff did not have normal conversations with Maxwell.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Graff did not talk to Maxwell about her wedding or
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: when she was pregnant. Maxwell would come and go from
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: the office and bring her dog into the office. Maxwell
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: had her own driver. There was a guy who was
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: the driver and a girl who was the maid. Looking back,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Graff did not know how much managing Maxwell actually did.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: When Maxwell's house was being built, that was her priority.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Maxwell was in the office next to Groff Agent note.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: At this point the interview, Groff was shown a black book.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: This book is one A nine in case file seventy
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: two mm dash eleven three three two seven. Graff advised
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: that this book did not look like the one that
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: she saw. The one Groff saw had larger writing. It
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: was the same size, but the one she remembered had
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: a thicker binding. Graff thought it was probably the same
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: information inside. This information would have been in the directory
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: to Groff's recollection. It looked the same, Graff recalled the
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: directory was alphabetical. Groff did not have conversations with Maxwell
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: about massages. Groff worked nine to five. Epstein did not
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: contact Groff on the weekends. Graff remembered Maxwell called Bella,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: who was from Russia, about the KGB. Maxwell had to
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: check every invoice. Maxwell smiled and was happy, except when
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Epstein got upset with her. Maxwell talked to everybody. It
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: seemed business related. For a Dacta traveled with Maxwell on
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Epstein's plane. Epstein and Maxwell were volatile. One moment Epstein
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: would be screaming and the next he would be down
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: to business. Maxwell tended to carry it and leave. Groff
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: thought the whole office seemed happy, like the employees were
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: happy and it was a nice place to work. Sometimes
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Groff was asked to messenger money for massages, and sometimes
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Jojo took money for the massages to give to people.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Epstein sent everything by messenger. Epstein sent things fed x.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Groff got the money from accounting and would pay someone
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: around one hundred. Groff would type a message to Bella.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Groff thought Bella had the petty cash box. Bella put
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: money in an envelope, then it would be put in
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: a messenger box. Jojo or a messenger would pick it up.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: This did not happen all the time, but rather some
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: of the time. No one ever came to the office
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: to pick up money except Jojo or the manager. Groff
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: never went to Epstein's house until twenty thirteen, Groff went
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: to Epstein's island. Groff was at a wedding on Tortola.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Epstein told Groff she should go to the island. Epstein
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: was not on the island when she went. Miles Alexander
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: and Kathy Alexander fed Groff and her husband lunch. Then
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: they went back on a trip with her husband to London.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Epstein said they could stay at his guest room in Paris.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: They stayed there a couple of nights and went back
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: to London. Groff did not go to the New Mexico Ranch.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Groff did not travel with Epstein. All right, folks, Well,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: there's Leslie Groff's three point two proffer with the FBI
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: agents in her own words, and I wonder how that's
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: going to compare with what she says to Congress later on.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: And as soon as those transcripts are available, we'll get
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: those added to the catalog. All the information that goes
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: with This episode can be found in the description box.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. Now, I know this might come as a
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: surprise to you, but Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell didn't
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: operate this enterprise on their own. They had a lot
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: of help along the way. And one of the people
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: that was most integral to the operation, at least logistically speaking,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: was Leslie Groff. And one of the vehicles that was
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: used to make these travel arrangements to book these flights
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: to get these girls into a position where they can
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: be abused was the American Express Black Card. And this
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: is exactly why they never wanted to follow the money trail.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: They know if they follow the money trail, where it
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: ends up, and it doesn't end up in a place
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: where you and I are moving on. Instead, if they
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: were to release the money trail and we all saw
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: where all this money was going, where it was coming from,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: I think that people would take to the streets. And
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: I truly believe that because people are still under the
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: impression that this was just a human trafficking ring, but
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: it was so much more than that. And while of
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: course the girls and women who were harmed. They were
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: harmed the most, and they have the biggest grievance, But
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that the rest of us haven't been
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: shit on by these people and haven't been treated badly,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: and they continue to do it day after day brazenly. Now.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: We least had some shame back in the day and
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: tried to hide their cover ups, but now they're just
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: running one in plain sight all the while just laughing
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: in your face and giving you double middle fingers. And
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: until we have a look at the financials, I don't
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: think we're ever gonna know just how deep this went
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: and just how many people were involved. So today we
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: have an article from CBS News and the headline Epstein's
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: longtime assistant grilled by US lawmakers over AMEX travel booked
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: for women or girls. This article was authored by Emmett Lyons.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: US lawmakers recently grilled Jeffrey Epstein's longtime assistant, Leslie Groff,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: about Epstein's use of American Express to book travel for
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: multiple women or girls. According to a transcript of our
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: hours long testimony released this week by the House Oversight Committee.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: And as soon as we wrap up with the Bill
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Gates transcript, we'll keep it moving right into the Leslie
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Groff transcript and we'll see what she has to say.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: But isn't it interesting that none of these people had
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: any idea what was going on? Crazy. CBS News was
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: first to report in February that the late convicted sex
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: offender used AMEX top tierists and Cherry and travel Service
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: and an AMEX black card to arrange hundreds of travel
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: itineraries for women or girls, predominantly from Eastern Europe. And
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I think that's where the focus should be. I think
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: that there is so much donecover over in Europe, in
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: South America, in Central America, and I think that if
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: some of those pieces fall into place, maybe we'll get
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: a better idea of just how vast this all was.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: But we're talking about what ten twelve countries at least,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: how many continents, how many women over the years, that's
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: the real question. Groff, who worked for Epstein for nearly
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: two decades, was a central point person in arranging the
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: bookings with AMEX. Documents released by the Justice Department earlier
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: this year indicated yes, she was the go to woman.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: She was the logistical backbone of the operation when it
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: comes to setting up travel arrangements, you know, doing Epstein's
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: day to day, and that puts her directly in the
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: crosshairs of a Rico investigation. You see, if this was
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: a real investigation from the start, they would have charged
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: or threatened to charge Leslie Groff in order to get
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: her to roll over on Jeffrey Epstein. But they never
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: even talked to her. They never talked to les Wexner,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: they never talked to Sarah Kelln Vickers. So I don't
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: know how much more proof you need that the whole
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: thing was to set up from the jump, and the
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: fact that they never were going to chase Rico at all,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: it gives away the game. CBS News cannot verify the
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: number of women or girls who receive travel bookings or
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: their ab due to the redaction of names in the
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: files released by the Department of Justice. Well, look, I
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: don't know. I have no idea how many women, what
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: their names were, where they originated from. But I can
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: tell you this, there were literally literally hundreds to thousands
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: that were abused one way or the other. And if
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: you think it was all by Jeffrey Epstein, congratulations, you're
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: dumb as fuck. In her sworn testimony, to the House
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Oversight Committee on June ninth, Groff said she did not
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: believe she ever arranged travel for girls under the age
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: of eighteen well. According to the transcript released Tuesday, she
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: said that her understanding was the bookings were being arranged
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: for traveling assistants employed by Epstein. Oh, traveling assistance. Huh.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: You don't find it weird that all of his traveling
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: assistants are these younger women. You don't got one male assistant, dude,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: one guy that you know is part of the crew.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: To tell anytime you have one of these disgusting old
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: scumbags that just surrounds themselves with young women, I have
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: questions and you can double that shit. When those people
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: look like Jeffrey Epstein, what a goofy ass looking dude.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: So all the people that are out here talking about oh,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: we had no idea. Yeah, all those young women, good
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: looking young women, they decided they just wanted to hang
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: out with Epstein because you know, hell of a guy,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: real good guy, that Jeffrey Epstein. Grafton, I being aware
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: of any instance in which the purpose of travel was
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: for Epstein or anyone in Epstein's network to engage in
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: sexual activity with the women involved. Well, let's see the
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: paper trail, let's get some testimony. What are the names
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: of the women, Let's track them down. Oh wait, the
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Justice Department said, there's nothing left to look at. She
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: was pressed by the House Oversight Committee about whether decoy
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: flights had been arranged for the purpose of attaining visas
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: for women or girls that were involved. As CBS News
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: were reported last month, Amex had a dedicated relationship manager,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Natalia Malatkova, assigned to Epstein's account, and emails in the
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: files released by Justice Department appeared to show she was
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: arranging such flights at Groff's request to obtain visas for
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: the women or girls. Immigration fraud another aspect nobody's talking about.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: And I'm sure that'll change when they figure out a
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: way to politicize that as well, because that's the only
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: thing they care about, politicizing this and trying to use
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: it as some kind of weapon against their enemy. Meanwhile,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: the whole lot of them are responsible, every single person
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: who's held office over the last what forty years? You
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: tell me you had no idea. Nobody could have stopped them,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Nobody heard any rumors, Nobody decided to walk into justice
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: one day and say enough is enough, so please save it.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Some of us have been around since the very beginning,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: and your bullshit distractions aren't going to work. In one
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: twenty sixteen email exchange Graff Road to Malokova, Natasha, we
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: need to find a flight that departs Rome and goes
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: to London on the twenty ninth for redacted. This flight
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: should depart around the same time the flights we are
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: holding for redacted Rome to Miami ten thirty five am.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: No return flights for this flight. This is a decoy flight.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: She will not really take it, but she needs to
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: show an itinerary for this flight. Fraud, immigration, fraud all
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: over the place, being helped and propagated by American Express. Folks,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: if you think American Express is the only culprit in
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: the financial sector, you're missing the whole entire boat, because
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: the truth is the financial sector. If you're looking for
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: a boogeyman there, it is no no, not your local banker,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: not your you know teller down at Wells Fargo. The
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: people that are at the very top, the people that
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: are making money hand over fist, no matter the situation.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Banking on wars both ends of it banking on tragedies
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: both ends of it, making off with everybody's wealth in
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: the greatest transfer of wealth from the bottom up in
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: history since COVID. But sure, let's continue to fight with
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: each other, because I'm sure that's what terrifies them. When
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: everybody's at each other's throat arguing about dumb shit, these
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: motherfuckers are able to continue with the heist, no repercussions,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: nobody ever going to prison, and they just move on
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: to the next tragedy that they're gonna milk. When asked
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: whether the purpose of the flight was to obtain visa,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Graff's attorney, Michael Backner told the committee, with all due respect,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: there is no indication that it was to obtain a visa.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: This woman wanted to take a flight to visit mister Epstein.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: She did not want to tell her parents that she
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: was going to take this flight. She wanted to keep
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: the flight that was taking her to London and have
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: a different flight though, take her really to see mister Epstein.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Graff told lawmakers don't know why she didn't want to
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: tell her parents, but this was not for a visa. Well,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: somebody that doesn't know much, Leslie Groff seems to know
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: a whole hell of a lot, doesn't she. Well, this
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: wasn't for a visa. Oh it wasn't, was it? So
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: you do know more than you let on. Leslie Groff
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: needs to be hit with a subpoena. In a December
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: twenty twelve email exchange, Graff wrote to Modelkova redacted has
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: an interview with the consul at ten thirty. She needs
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: proof of a hotel, stay and air for this meeting.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Malakova asked Graff directly whether the woman needed a flight
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: and accommodation reservation only for visa purposes. You know, the
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: amount of fraud that's going on here is staggering. How
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: much more evidence is needed. It's against Dame's policy to
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: be honest, she wrote to Grof, But here's the option.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: We can hold it till tonight. Graff directed Malakova to
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: cancel the fully refundable travel itinerary that was being held
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: and signed up off to Malakova, You've been great. A
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: day after alleged consolate appointment took place, the files released
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: by the Justice appeared a show. In an exchange with
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: House Oversight Committee Senior Counsel Britney Brignac, in which she
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: was asked what the purpose of that particular booking was,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Graff replied, I don't know. I think that this was
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: an assistant of mister Epstein that wanted to get her visa.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: The only thing that I facilitated was getting her a
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: ticket and a hotel room reservation. Cool. You're a part
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: of the conspiracy. Now, now you're part of the Rico case.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Now you're going to prison. It looks to me like
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: she needed to get her visa and she was requesting it,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: and that's it. I was asked to get the ticket.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: I was dealing with Amex Centurion. That's it. You know.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: It's like in Game of Thrones when the Lanister boys
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: were killed by Carstark and then they arrest everybody that
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: killed them, and there's one guy that's standing there and
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: he says, well, I didn't take part. I didn't kill anybody.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: I was only watching. And then Rob Stark goes, okay,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: well this one was only watching. Hang him last. That's
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: basically the same shit with Leslie Groff here, right, Well,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: it wasn't me. I wasn't taking part in the abuse. No,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: But if it wasn't for the logistics, the abuse couldn't occur,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: So that puts you smack dab in the middle of
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: a criminal conspiracy. Plus you were benefiting from it, and
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: you were doing it to further the criminal conspiracy because
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: it benefited you. This is a clear cut case, and
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: the fact that there's never been RICO is the biggest
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: tell in history that Jeffrey Epstein was being protected by
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: the United States government, not by Israel, not by Russia,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: not by green men, by our government right here in
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: the United States. When challenged on whether this was an
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: example of a decoy flight, Graff replied no. American Express
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: declined to comment Friday on Grov's testimony and whether the
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: company had carried out enough due diligence on Epstein's account.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: In February, and American Express spokesperson told CBS News the
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: company strongly condemns abuse, exploitation, and human trafficking. We take
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: our legal and regulatory responsibilities seriously, including reporting suspicious activity.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Nothing suspicious about a guy using his AMEX card to
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: move hundreds of Eastern European women from whatever country they're
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: in to America, especially when that guy's already a sex offender.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: No big deal here, guys, we have regulations. We terminated
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: his account following federal charges against them, and we continuously
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: update our process and controls. We regret having him as
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: a customer, the spokesperson said, Notice, it's that after his
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: federal charges. So that was in twenty nineteen. Again, just
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: to point out that was the plan. Make sure it
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: was state, make sure it didn't hamper Jeffrey Epstein's ability
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: to do what he was doing for insert government here,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: and in return for that protection for him to do
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: whatever you wanted, he played Paul with the United States
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: government and gave them information, whatever that information was. But
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: if anyone thinks that American Express is the only financial
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: outlet that was helping Epstein along the way, they're crazy.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: And if you're wondering why they don't want to follow
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: the money trail, this is why. Because they can't control
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: where it ends up, they can't control the blast radius,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: and most importantly, they wouldn't be able to control the narrative.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, that's gonna do it for this one.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: All the information that goes with this episode can be
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. Leslie Groff had
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: her time in front of Congress on Tuesday, June ninth,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, and according to James Comer, she was
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: very forthcoming and she was very informative when it comes
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: to Jeffrey Epstein and his behavior. And honestly, at this point,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not shocked to hear that. I mean, it's basically
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: what we hear every time we have a witness come up.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Comer sings their praises and tells us how great they were,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: and then of course we get the transcript and it
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: tells us something completely different. So today we have an
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: article from CNN and we're gonna talk a little bit
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: more about Leslie Groff and her congressional appearance, and the headline,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: longtime Epstein assistant paints late sex offender as a master
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: manipulator and denies knowing about his crimes. Now, she had
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: no idea, folks. She was there every day, all day
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: for what fifteen years, sixteen years, whatever it was, and
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: she had no idea. Okay. The authors of this article
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: are Annie Grayer and MJ. Lee. One of Jeffrey Epstein's
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: longtime assistants told members of the House Oversight Committee on
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Tuesday that she did not know about the late convicted
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: sex offenders' crimes, describing him as a master manipulator who
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: had every reason to keep them a secret from her.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: According to two sources familiar with the testimony, as a
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: way to try to demonstrate her ignorance about Epstein's wrongdoing,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: Leslie Groff, Epstein's former executive assistant, said she believed the
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: massage appointments she made for Epstein with young women and
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: girls were with massage therapists. The sources said, give me
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: a break. Stop. Nobody believes that. Well, maybe comer, but
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: nobody who knows the story believes that. What do you
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: think those girls that were in school were telling you, Oh,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: I have a recital where I have this, or that
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: I can't make it. They're all in college. Is that
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: what you think, especially after the fact, when you know
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: that your boss had already diddled the kid. Look, I
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: don't believe anything that Leslie Groff is saying, just like
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: I don't believe the vast majority of things that we
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: heard from Sarah Kellen. All of a sudden, there's all
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: these concerns from Jeffrey Epstein's Corps four. Where were all
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: these concerns previously. I want to say without any doubt
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: that I have come to believe that the man who
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: employed me from February of two thousand and one through
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: July of twenty nineteen was a monster. For eighteen years,
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: I worked for doctor Jekyl, but was never permitted to
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: see the true mister Hyde. Groff said in her opening
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: statement later obtained by CNN. Mister Epstein was, in hindsight,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: a master manipulator and deceiver who separated his legitimate life
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: from his secret life as an abuser and made sure
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: that his secretary those two worlds did not collide. You
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: were more than a secretary, a personal assistant to somebody
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: like Epstein. They're always around, They're involved in everything. Now,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: she might not have known the extent of the abuse,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: but she knew that something was going on. She knew
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: that people were being abused, and if you stayed around
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: them after the first time around, then hey, you don't
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: have any leg to stand on. Groff is one of
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: the most notable members of the late financiers in her
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: orbit to speak to Congress as part of its Epstein
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: and investigation. A ubiquitous assistant who out manage every aspect
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: of Epstein's life, from appointments with women to meetings with
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: powerful individuals, as evidenced in the Justice departments millions of
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Epstein files. As part of her opening remarks, she recounted
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: to the investigative panel how massage appointments were booked and
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: claimed to have never met any of the women involved.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: That's a lie. She never met Virginia. She never met
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: any of the women that were coming to the house.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: I don't believe that. And if any of these girls
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: say otherwise, then that means that Leslie Groff lied, right,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: and that would mean that she committed perjury. These calls
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: lasted literally a few seconds. Hi, this is Leslie calling
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: for mister Epstein. Are you available for a massage? At
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: four o'clock? Groff pull lawmakers. None of the women or
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: anyone else ever told me that they were miners or
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: that they were sexually abused. Nothing I heard or saw
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: led me to believe otherwise. She would have never remained silent,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: She said. If she knew about Epstein's crimes, well you
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: knew about the first time around, so stop. Groff told
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: lawmakers during her hour long interview that she was not
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: sexually abused by Epstein. One of the sources said she
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: said she did not need her job with Epstein, and
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: testified that both Epstein and Maxwellow told her that she
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: should not associate with their friends and colleagues, insisting their
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: business was none of hers. Since Epstein's arrest, Groff, who
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: has largely stayed out of the spotlight, told lawmakers she's
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: been shunned by friends, received death threats, and her family
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: has been harassed again. People shouldn't do that. Why is
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: anybody out here harassing people's family. Stop? Don't be crazy.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Put pressure on the people that can make things happen.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Put pressure on politicians, Put pressure on public officials, Put
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: pressure on people that actually have their hands on the lever.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Graff addressed Epstein's survivors in her opening statement, testifying that
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: her heart breaks for these women. I believe them. Words
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: cannot express how badly I feel that I was employed
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: by mister Epstein during the time that he abused these women.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: I will live with this horrible feeling for the rest
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: of my life, she told lawmakers of the survivors. Yeah,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: how do you think the survivors feel? If you feel
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: that bad, leslie, how do you think these girls feel,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: but Graff's denial that she had any knowledge of Epstein's
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: wrongdoing was immediately met with condemnation from survivors. Charlene Rochard
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: expressed skepticism that Graff would not have been aware of
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Epstein's crimes. One of the hardest parts for survivors is
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: hearing the people who were closest to Epstein claim they
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: saw nothing, Rochard told CNN that doesn't match my experience.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Survivors deserve answers, not claims of ignorance, and it's true
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: that's what they deserve, but unfortunately we're not going to
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: get that, not from any of these people. They have
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: zero desire to ever tell the truth, whether it's the
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Trump administration or Leslie Groff or anybody else that was
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: associated with Captain Scumbag. Representative Stephen Lynch, a Democrat on
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: the panel, was also skeptical of Groff's efforts to distance
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: herself from Epstein, telling reporters it's highly inconsistent that she's
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: maintaining that she didn't really know Jeffrey Epstein, even though
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: she worked for him for eighteen years, not just work
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: for him personal assistant. We all know how crazy that
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: job is, how much you're in the mix. While Groff
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: said that she saw nothing with the massages she's scheduled
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: for Epstein, Lynch said he questioned whether she can rightfully
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: and truthfully maintain that she saw nothing improper in that
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: he was a registered sex offender and had to report.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Lynch added of Epstein, addressing why she did not leave
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: her job with Epstein sooner, particularly after he became a
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: registered sex offender. Groff claimed in her opening statement that
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein adlied to her and insisted that he had been
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: blackmailed and was set up, so you believed them instead
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: of those girls they came forward instead of the court.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: That doesn't sit well with me, and I'm not buying
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: that excuse. The committee covered a range of topics during
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: the interviews that stretched into the late afternoon, as Republicans
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: and Democrats traded rounds of questioning. A source familiar with
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: the matter told CNN that there was no previously agreed
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: upon scolpe for Groff's interview, meaning no questions or topics
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: were off limits. I want to help you in any
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: way I can, Graff told lawmakers at the start of
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: her appearance. House Oversight chair James Comer described Groff as
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: very forthcoming and compelling in the way she answered questions
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: throughout the closed door interview. Oh yeah, just a great witness,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: very helpful in trying to keep us covering this up.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: There are some things that she said that probably aren't
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: along the same lines as what some of the victims
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: have said, So we're going to have to review that. Comer,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: a Kentucky Republican, said Tuesday, adding that he hopes to
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: hold a public hearing with victims of Epstein's abuse in
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: the future. Democrats have sought to tie President Donald Trump
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: to Epstein, though Trump is long denied any wrongdoing related
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: to Ebstein, as well as any allegations of sexual misconduct. Yeah, well,
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: how about the cover up, because from where I'm sitting,
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: it's very apparent. Lynch noted that Groff arranged multiple phone
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: calls between Trump and Epstein before Trump was president, but
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: didn't specify when Groff said she didn't know of any
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: employees of Trump's Mar A Lago resort going to Epstein's residence.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: The source familiar said Groff began working for Epstein in
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: two thousand and one. According to a twenty ten payroll
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: document managing his schedule booking his travel and personal appointments,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: and acting as a go between with high profile individuals.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: She was listed as a potential co conspirator to Epstein
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: as part of the controversial non prosecution agreements struck with
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: federal prosecutors in Florida of two thousand and eight. And
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: you notice how she didn't try to get rid of
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: that immunity, right, you're so innocent, say you don't want
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: to be part of the MPa. Multiple victims who spoke
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: with the FBI identified Groff as a person they'd first
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: call to reach Epstein and schedule a massage for him.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: They said that he perpetuated his sexual abuse while receiving
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: those massages. In a twenty twenty one interview with the FBI,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: Groff said booking massages was just another appointment she made
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: for Epstein, according to notes from the interview. Email correspondence
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: in the Epstein files also revealed the late financier relied
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: on Groff to book domestic and international travel for him
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: and scores of women. If it was Rico, it would
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: be a big problem. But it's not Rico, so Groff
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: is in the clear. Funny how that works. Groffs lawyers
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: announced in late twenty twenty one that she would not
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: be charged by law enforcement and that she had never
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: witnessed anything improper or illegal and remains heartbroken for all
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: the victims. In a previous statement to CNN, Groft's lawyer
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: said she worked for Epstein as part of a professional
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: staff that included in OUs attorneys, accountants, and other staff,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: and that her job included making appointments for Epstein, taking
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: his messages, and setting up high level meetings with CEOs,
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: business executives, scientists, politicians, celebrities, charitable organizations and universities. Now
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: keep in mind, this is what's being reported. We haven't
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: seen the transcripts yet, so until we see them, like usual,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: I suggest you take everything you hear with a grand assault,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: and once those transcripts are available, we'll get them added
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: to the catalog. All the information in this episode can
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: be found in the description box