Latest / Clean Power Hour / Understand Domestic Solar Manufacturing with Chris Lettman | EP281

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Understand Domestic Solar Manufacturing with Chris Lettman | EP281 · Clean Power Hour

• 0:50
  Chris Lettman: Okay, you know Imperial Star, you know we're like I said. I can't go into the confidential details, but we're doing the necessary steps. We're doing more than the necessary steps right now to make our customers feel comfortable knowing that what domestic content components are being used are, in fact, certified that they are being originating from the US.
• 1:16
  intro: Are you speeding the energy transition here at the Clean Power Hour, our host, Tim Montague, bring you the best in solar, batteries and clean technologies every week. Want to go deeper into decarbonization.
• 1:26
  intro: We do too. We're here to help you understand and command the commercial, residential and utility, solar, wind and storage industries. So let's get to it together. We can speed the energy transition
• 1:42
  Tim Montague: today on the Clean Power Hour domestic content in solar panel manufacturing. My guest is a friend of the pod and a repeat guest. His name is Chris lutman, and he is the US Sales Director for Imperial Star Solar. Welcome back to the show, Chris.
• 1:59
  Chris Lettman: Thank you. Tim, happy to be back on. Always.
• 2:02
  Chris Lettman: Look forward to not only being on and attending as a guest, but also listening to your weekly podcast. And I think what you're doing is a great it's great for our our community. It's great for the solar industry, and I truly appreciate the time today.
• 2:19
  Unknown: Well, thank you. It's, it is a passion project, largely, but it's very gratifying. And I, and I love you know, talking to all of the people that I get to talk to, it is a privilege to have the pod and get all the, you know, the inside stories that I get. So I love doing this. And today, I'm especially thrilled, though, Chris, to get under the covers a little bit of the solar panel manufacturing industry here in the United States. You know, the story on the street is that we're now approaching 50 gigawatts of solar panel manufacturing. We achieved 50 gigawatts of installations in 2024 that will probably go down a little bit. I think the word on the street is in 2025 but you know, it's been ticking up. It wasn't long ago when it was 20 gigawatts, and now it's 50, and here we are and and because of the IRA, the inflation Reduction Act and the ITC adders for domestic content, we now have real solar panel factories getting built, including solar cell manufacturing. So why don't you set the table for us from your perspective, and tell us a little bit about how you came to Imperial Star?
• 3:37
  Chris Lettman: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So just to kind of lead lead off with the module capacity here in the US, as you said, it's 50, or nearing 50 gigawatts. On the cell side, it's, it's about 10 megawatts.
• 3:48
  Chris Lettman: I'm sorry, it's about 10% of that, so we still have a lot of growth on that end, on the cell and eventually the wafer, but we'll come back to that maybe later on in the podcast, because it's a little bit different conversation, but it's definitely connected. So Imperial Star Solar is a module manufacturer based in Houston, Texas. Our capacity is two gigawatts now, with that two gigawatts that includes domestic content eligible modules that we we currently produce right now.
• 4:23
  Chris Lettman: So it's been, it's been a wild ride. We've we've been producing modules since December of last year. We're at full capacity right now. We're churning out about 166 megawatts per month.
• 4:37
  Chris Lettman: So so very, very active. I've been back to the factory several times since January, both for company meetings as well as customer tours and conference conference meetings. And you know discussion, discussions around you know how to move things forward with with those customers. So it's been very, very busy.
• 5:01
  Unknown: And you're also on the tail end of a solar Finance Conference in Arizona, where many asset owners and developers go to do business, and you were a sponsor of that show, and we were just saying how Imperial Star has worked hard to grow their brand in the US, and now you are getting some brand recognition. If you haven't heard of Imperial Star, I will just say, check them out, because they when you look at their data sheets, you see immediately that this is a high quality, UL certified product.
• 5:34
  Unknown: It's the real deal. They are not noobs to the solar panel industry, even though you may not be familiar with them.
• 5:42
  Unknown: They're not the household name of some of the other big solar manual panel manufacturers, but they are a real. High quality product. So with that out of the way, what is the let's, let's set the table a little more.
• 5:59
  Unknown: What is your read on solar panel manufacturing and our industry, I guess, at large in the United States? Yeah,
• 6:09
  Chris Lettman: right now, where, where we're at as an industry, and more specifically with Module manufacturing, as I mentioned, we're set up in Houston, Texas, and Texas continues to be very open and very, very, I don't want to say easy, but there's quite a few module manufacturers that are based in Texas that are coming up and planning to build in Texas as well. Not only that, expansion plans, we're we're currently at two gigawatts, and we're already putting in plans to expand our capacity and our production. So it's full steam ahead. And aside from all the challenges that we've been faced with recently, currently and in the past. You know, I think it's a a testament to the resiliency of our industry that, you know, we overcome things, we overcome terrorists, we overcome legislation issues, we overcome net metering issues, we overcome just about anything that anyone is going to throw at us. And that's one of the things that I like about this industry. It's definitely not boring. And so you gotta, you gotta stay on your toes. You gotta follow what's going on in all different areas of of the industry, not just with technology, but legislation, advancements, manufacturing and so forth. So it's, it continues to push forward. I think we hit a few hiccups in the industry recently, but I'm not, I'm not overly worried about it. Tim, I've been in this industry for over 16 years, and I don't want to say I've seen it all, because I know I haven't. I know I'm going to see more eventually, but my confidence lies in the fact that we're going to, we're going to bounce back, we're going to, we're going to, you know, resolve any issues. We're going to figure out a workaround on anything that anyone wants to throw at us. So,
• 8:06
  Unknown: you know, I mean, the, one of the cool things about the state of the industry is that we do have a lot of manufacturing plants being built in the US now. And let's face it, this means high wage jobs. It means tax revenue, and these factories are largely in red states, not not exclusively, but Texas, Georgia, Indiana, South Carolina, to name a few, where there are major solar panel factories or solar cell factories being built or operating. And if you're the governor of those states, you want these plants. It's good for your it's good for your economy.
• 8:48
  Unknown: Yeah. And then everybody in solar understands that there's this flow of global finance into renewables that is virtually unstoppable. It goes faster when there's good incentives like the ITC, right? And and if you take the ITC away, it will slow the flow, but it cannot stop the flow, because solar, wind and batteries are the cheapest sources of of New Energy, and fossils are going to go by the wayside one way or another.
• 9:21
  Unknown: They're they're not going away anytime soon, unfortunately, right? And so we also have to recognize that we're not really stopping global warming at the rate that we're making the energy transition. We're not solving that problem, but we are Greening the Grid, and that's an important step, and it is going to get greened, like it or not.
• 9:43
  Unknown: Donald Trump, we are going to green the grid. So deal with it, brother, I say to Donald Trump.
• 9:47
  Unknown: But anyway, all the developers I know, and literally 100% and this includes EPCs, that self develop are looking for domestic content solar panels, because you can get a 10% adder per today, we don't know tomorrow, but you can get a 10% adder on the ITC, if you can get domestic content now, that means that the panel has to be made with cells made in the US to get the 10% adder right, you can, you can, if you use foreign made cells, which the vast majority of of those 50 gig watts, as you pointed out, 45 of the 50 gig watts are made with cells made elsewhere, because that's where the solar cells are made. We don't have a lot of cell manufacturing in the US, and so you just have to be careful when you're talking to these people, whether they're brokers or manufacturers. You know, it's a both and and everybody wants to promise you the sky. So. You just got to make sure that they can deliver on what they're promising. Yeah, and
• 10:55
  Chris Lettman: that's where I think there's a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation that's coming through the different channels.
• 11:01
  Chris Lettman: And whether you're a c9 developer, or whether you're a utility scale project developer, owner, operator, the conversation I'm having on a regular, regular basis, day in and day out, for the past three months, I'm hearing stories from some of my clients and prospective clients that are telling me, you know, Well, Chris, you know you're giving me, you know, this price, and this is the technology you're saying for for your modules, with your sales and everything, I'm seeing a price, you know, cheaper than that, substantially cheaper than that. And I pause, I think about, I digest what they're telling me, and then I'll go in a little bit further and ask them, you know, what?
• 11:47
  Chris Lettman: What does that include? You know, to your point, with the cells and the additional manufactured product component, or MPC, as it's called on the new safe harbor table. And the fact of the matter is, you can some companies are claiming domestic content module when they only have maybe the frame or the glass or the back sheet, but maybe not the cell. And without that PV cell being manufactured in the US, and currently, there's only a small number of manufacturing on the on the cell side, that's happening right now, there's some plants that are planning production later this year and into 2026 but that hasn't happened yet. So I caution these customers, these clients, you know, the listeners of your podcast, and you know people I'm talking to, people you're talking to Tim. You know, not all domestic content modules are created equal. You know, without the cell, it's a very different conversation, and sure I can deliver a module that has the frame, the back sheet, the J box, a couple other components that might give you 10, 15% percentage points on what you need. 45% for this year is the aggregate total. 50% next year, in 2025 and in 2026, and beyond, it's going to go up to 55% so that that percentage, you may not reach those thresholds. And if you don't reach those thresholds, and you're, you're calculating, you know what you're going to pay out for, modules, inverters, racking, labor and such, and you think you're going to get that 10% tax adder you might be off, you know. So I encourage the listeners of your podcast, you know, to to, you know, kind of, you know, be cautious.
• 14:36
  Chris Lettman: Investigate, vet out what these module manufacturers are saying.
• 14:40
  Chris Lettman: Ask them to prove to you, to some extent. I mean, I can't go into the details of what we're providing to our customers, but once an NDA is struck between both parties, you know, we're having these in depth conversations, and we're more than happy to share, you know, information that will make the customer comfortable with what we're telling them is to be, you know, part of the domestic component chain that's listed on the on the table, the Clean
• 15:10
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• 15:36
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• 15:50
  Unknown: Go to Chint Power systems.com or call 855-584-7168, to find out more. Yeah, and it's no secret that you have a partnership with Suniva? Yeah, go to suniva.com and you'll see that there's a very small cadre. This is a very small ecosystem. It's a very good ecosystem. But you'll see announcements about Imperial Star, Helene and now a joint venture. That's what I call it, I don't know they call it a partnership, yeah, with Corning, which also involves, apparently, Hemlock, which is a well known silicon manufacturer, right, based in, I think, historically Michigan, but I think so, yeah, but anyway, this is, this is a relative. Small ecosystem. We're talking about five gigawatts today total. Is there another company besides Suniva that is rolling out solar cells? Yeah, great question. Great
• 16:52
  Chris Lettman: question. So ES foundry, they're based in South Carolina. Alex is heading up that, that company. He's a CEO.
• 17:01
  Chris Lettman: I actually used to work with him at another company on the module side, okay? And I just spoke to Alex at re plus in Boston.
• 17:08
  Chris Lettman: Matter of fact, re plus Northeast, and so they are opening up and going into production. I believe their capacity is three gigawatts so.
• 17:16
  Chris Lettman: But, you know, back to the the relationship that Imperial Star Solar has with Geneva. You know, I just talked to Matt card over there about a week ago, and you know, they've been, you know, very, very supportive of what we're doing. And the relationship between the two companies have has been phenomenal, and we look forward to expanding that. And you know, there's some exciting things coming up around the corner here, probably, I'm hoping, sometime in, in April. So, you know, stay tuned for that.
• 17:49
  Unknown: Very cool. Yeah, yeah, there's a story on E, on on, on the ES foundries website about, you know, the the current administration's attacks on the IRA and how this is not good for solar manufacturing, it casts the shadow over the industry, and it's a big deal. I pointed out recently, I think, on my news roundup with John Weaver, that, yeah, we're building a lot of factories. They may not get turned on or expanded to the extent possible if we scare these companies away. And we have to realize that the 50 gigawatts of solar in the US is maybe 5% of the global solar industry, right? It's a small piece of the pie, and so we don't really, really matter to these big global manufacturers.
• 18:35
  Unknown: We're big enough that they come here and are actively selling in the US, and we're grateful because they are mostly foreign entities that have the track record in solar manufacturing.
• 18:47
  Unknown: We just didn't. We didn't grab on to it early enough and fast enough. I mean, maybe in the very, very early days, we did, but it quickly went overseas to Germany and Japan and China, and they have leaned into it faster and harder than we have, and now we're making an effort to onshore and reshore some of that manufacturing, both of solar panels, batteries and chips, and this is a big deal too, right?
• 19:17
  Unknown: Because our world runs on semiconductors, and like Taiwan, semiconductor makes 70% of the chips that we consume here in the United States. So our economy, all of our stuff, our cars, our trucks, our machinery, our smart devices, everything that are running on these on these chips. And
• 19:36
  Chris Lettman: look at all these AI data centers that are that are coming online, that are being planned. Those are, those are heavy, heavy, you know, energy demands from from those locations and from those data centers. And I know a lot of companies. I spoke to a few companies at the Phoenix Arizona infocast solar and wind Finance Conference last week, and spoke to a few of those folks that are developing and building these data centers throughout the country, and you know, they're looking, they're looking to solar and wind as as part of their, you know, their energy mix to supply power to those data centers.
• 20:18
  Unknown: Yeah, our grid is burgeoning. We're going to be consuming a lot more electricity, because of data centers, because of electrification of transportation and HVAC, and eventually heavy industry, we're going to triple, quadruple the grid. There's going to be power shortages because we're we're growing our consumption, our demand, of electricity so fast, and so it is kind of an all hands on deck. We want that energy to be clean. We want it to be secure. We want it to be easy to procure. The supply chain issues that we had during COVID were really significant, and so that's another great reason to onshore this stuff, right? Just put it on a train or a truck instead of having to ship it 1000s of miles across the Pacific Ocean or the Atlantic ocean before, right? We don't we want to make it here if we can. It just makes so much good sense. Now, yeah, Americans workers make a higher wage, and so traditionally, that has been a challenge, right? And we have offshored a lot of manufacturing, but that's not good for our economy at large, right, those we want higher wage jobs in America for our workers like that's a thing, a legacy since Henry Ford, right, kind of mainstreamed mass manufacturing and made products that were affordable for his workers by paying his workers a living wage, he really. Made a mark and a legacy for that, and we we stepped away from that for quite a while, and we have this thing called the rust belt here in the Midwest, all the way over to Pennsylvania, right where there were just factories after factories after factories that got shuttered and Detroit turned into a complete blight because the auto industry moved away to to Latin America and to Japan and Korea, etc. And now we're trying to do something good for the economy and and, you know, the Biden administration was very smart about this. That was good industrial policy. And hopefully somebody can talk some sun sense into the current administration in this regard, because we need to continue good industrial policy. Yeah.
• 22:28
  Chris Lettman: So, you know, Americans need, you know, good paying, you know, jobs. And one way to do that is to bring back manufacturing here in the US, with PV module manufacturing, with the inverters and with the racking, we already have good paying jobs on the construction side, and there's actually a shortage of there's a higher demand and a shortage of those employees and those construction workers and those electricians and, you know, schools and trade, trade schools are, you know, training as fast as they can to get those people out there. And I think it's a great thing. I mean, it's, I guess it's a good problem to have. Now we can just marry that up and catch up on the manufacturing, on on the equipment side. You know, we're off and running. So, you know, I'm definitely positive about that, but we have a lot of work to do. We have a lot of work to do. And you know, it's not going to be easy, but it, you know, it is what it is.
• 23:19
  Chris Lettman: And you know, we can as a country, we can pull it together and and make it happen.
• 23:27
  Unknown: Well, what else should our listeners know about domestic content, solar panels and your work at Imperial Star, and then also, Chris, I'd love it if you could highlight some upcoming conferences that you'll be at where people can meet you face to face? Yeah,
• 23:43
  Chris Lettman: yeah, absolutely.
• 23:43
  Chris Lettman: Um, so domestic content modules.
• 23:46
  Chris Lettman: Again, I can't emphasize this enough. Tim, the customer has to ask a lot of questions, where are these components coming from? How are they classified as domestic? Whether it's the frame, whether it's the cell, whether it's the back sheet, encapsulant, the glass, the pot and the J box, you know, get, you know, push, push. That manufacturer. You have every right to inquire about the source of these components to ensure that they're going to meet the the domestic content requirement. You know, make sure that everything lines up. And if you're not, if you're not certain, if you're not comfortable, if they're not giving you information, that makes you feel confident that they're going to be there. You might want to shop around. You might want to look elsewhere.
• 24:32
  Chris Lettman: Okay, you know, Imperial Star.
• 24:32
  Chris Lettman: You know, like I said, I can't go into the confidential details, but we're doing the necessary steps. We're doing more than the necessary steps right now to make our customers feel comfortable knowing that what domestic content components are being used are, in fact, certified that they are being originating from the US. And you know, as I said again, our two gigawatt factory is going to be expanding, and at our Houston facility, that's exciting.
• 25:06
  Chris Lettman: Speaking of Houston, I'm going to be at the RE plus Texas event, which is coming up in May. It's going to run from May 13 and the 14th out in Houston, Texas. Come find me. Another way to find me is on LinkedIn. Go to Imperial, star, solar on LinkedIn, follow us on LinkedIn and look me up, and you can direct message me there. I'd love to have a conversation with you guys.
• 25:32
  Unknown: Excellent. Alright, plus Texas may 13 and 14, I'll make sure that's on our website, at Clean Power hour.com, and of course, you'll be at Vegas also, I assume in
• 25:47
  Chris Lettman: September. Yeah, yep, the flagship event of all events this year will be, will, will be out there in full force.
• 25:56
  Chris Lettman: We're going to have, you know, I'm here at our sales and marketing office in Irvine, California. And then, of course, we have our employees working out of our Houston factory, in house sales, and our senior leadership will be there. That's that's the other thing too. I want to talk about on the domestic content side. Keep in mind Tim that all of the Imperial Star employees were locally based here in the US. So while we have our factory here in Houston, Texas, you know, not all companies have all the main decision makers here locally, and that makes a difference, because, yeah, you can find different modules out there in the in the US market and domestic content, if that's what you're seeking. But there might be some lag time in. Getting answers and getting updates on your shipment, or getting confirmation on whether a PO has been accepted or whatnot. We're all based here in the US, whether we're in the Central Time Zone or the Pacific Time Zone. Here in California, you're going to get a response. You're going to get me, you're going to get someone that I report to.
• 27:02
  Chris Lettman: You're going to get a you're going to get a quick response.
• 27:06
  Unknown: I would also encourage our listeners to check out the about page. You see the Kiwa pvel logo there. The module, their module reliability scorecard is one of my favorite ways of really kicking the tires on PV products and but many other certifications, ISO UL, State of California, etc. Are there other regional shows where you're going to be Chris this year?
• 27:34
  Chris Lettman: Right now, as I mentioned, May for re plus Houston, September for the big Ra plus in Las Vegas. They I update and we update on our website. You know, if you follow Imperial Star Solar on LinkedIn, you're going to be able to get our monthly newsletter where we update, you know, changes to the market, changes to to our our company, updates on our company, but also where we're going to be at, you know, I'll be speaking at PV module tech up in Napa, California in June. That's a smaller, that's more of a conference seminar. So not, not as widely attended as some of the RE plus events, but a very, very important conference, if you are on the procurement side, technology side of solar, we get really into the weeds when, when we're up there at the PV module tech
• 28:32
  Unknown: yeah, I've never been to that show or event. I've heard of it, and it is a smaller, but more technical conference, so people to check that out as well. And who doesn't want to go to Napa? Uh, sounds like a lovely setting in in June, yeah. All right, well, um, check out all of our content at Clean Power hour.com Please give us a rating and a review on Apple or Spotify. Follow us on YouTube, reach out to me on LinkedIn. I love hearing from my listeners. And I also will be at re plus Vegas. I will not be at Texas, unfortunately, but they'll there are three events in Chicago that I will be at.
• 29:11
  Unknown: That is the Midwest solar Expo in June, then the solar farm summit, I think that is in August, and then Midwest re plus Midwest in October. So we have three robust conferences in Chicago, and of course, I will be at Vegas. So hope to see you, Chris, of course, in Vegas, and maybe I'll get to do a visit to your factory in Houston. I would really like to do that. We'd
• 29:39
  Chris Lettman: love to have you come out, Tim, and that is an open invitation for you. Thank you
• 29:43
  Unknown: so much, Chris, okay, my friend. Repeat once again.
• 29:46
  Unknown: How can our listeners find you on LinkedIn? Yeah. Chris
• 29:49
  Chris Lettman: letman, at LinkedIn, under Imperial, star, solar, just go to the main page.
• 29:52
  Chris Lettman: You'll see me as one of the employees there. US sales, my name. Reach out, connect, follow us on LinkedIn. Sign up for the newsletter, and you'll get more information that I provided here today on on the podcast.
• 30:08
  Unknown: All right, with that, I'll say I'm Tim Montague, let's grow solar and storage. Thanks so much. Chris letman, Thanks, Tim. You.