Latest / Hospitable Hosts / Reduce Short-Term Rental Property Taxes with Ownwell
Transcript
- Miles: Hello everyone and welcome to today's Hospitable Host podcast. I am your host for today, Miles Hobson, head of marketing here at Hospitable. And today we are talking US property taxes with Sam from Ownwell. And please bear with me, I know property taxes doesn't sound like the most interesting topic, but we're going to delve into how you could be saving a bunch of money by getting a reassessment on your property taxes. So stay tuned. If you enjoyed today's episode, please don't forget to like, share, and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks. Okay, hello Sam. Thank you so much for joining us today. Sam - Ownwell: Thanks, Miles. Pleasure to be here. Miles: Awesome. How's it going? Are you having a good day? Sam - Ownwell: Yeah, it's been been great. You know, we're in the thick of our kind of busy season here at at Onwell, so Miles: Mm-hmm. Sam - Ownwell: staying busy and getting after Miles: Nice. And I normally ask this before we jump on, but whereabouts are you based? Whereabouts are the company based? Sam - Ownwell: Yeah. Yeah. I'm sitting here in Austin, Texas. This is our company headquarters. most of the employees we have based here, but a big part of our business as we'll get into is property tax consulting and we've got consultants local to to the markets that we operate in. Miles: Nice, okay. so yeah, I mean jumping straight into that I guess is you know, it's property taxes, that's what you do, but maybe you can give us like the layman's definition of what own well does and and how you got started. Sam - Ownwell: Sure. Sure. Yeah. So ownwell exists because most property owners treat their property tax bill like a utility bill, right? they get it, they pay it, no real questions asked. And that's costing them, you know, some real money. we estimate that between thirty and sixty percent of property owners are overpaying at any given time. And a big reason why is that over ninety percent of property owners across the country take no action. To challenge their property tax assessment. You know, most people don't realize they can or they don't know how or they simply don't have the the time. and so we built ownwell to reduce that friction, to make sure property owners are are paying no more than they should. and we combine local, you know, licensed property tax professionals with proprietary technology that handles the entire process from end to end. And hopefully maximizes the the savings that we're driving for our our clients. Miles: Nice, that's cool. And yeah, hopefully we've not lost too many people by starting this by talking about property taxes. It's not necessarily the most exciting topic, but it sounds like there's Sam - Ownwell: Ha ha ha. Miles: some some big chunks of cash to be saved through this, obviously. Sam - Ownwell: Yeah, yeah, you're right. I mean, it isn't the most exciting topic. but you know, it's really important for folks to be thinking about it and and paying attention to it. we see all the time property taxes are often the single biggest operating expense for for many property owners. And you know, what makes it different from other cash flow optimization strategies, like, you know, reducing property taxes requires you know, no real capital, no kind of changes to your operations, no real trade-offs. and every dollar you save there, you know, drops straight to the the bottom line. So you know, it's something that often goes kind of overlooked, but can be really important for your business. Miles: Okay, and I've got to be honest, for my own property taxes, I kind of just received the bill and I just pay it. I don't give it much thought. and haven't really put much thought into, you know, could it be a lower bill? Maybe you can just talk me through like what goes into a property tax assessment. And I'm guessing it depends on where you are in, you know, the US, but what are some of the common things that kind of determine you know how Sam - Ownwell: Yeah. Miles: much tax you do pay? Sam - Ownwell: Yeah, yeah, it's a really good question. you know, assessments are based on what the assessor in your county believes your your property is worth, right? And unfortunately the process is a lot less precise than I think people might assume. And you know, that's because assessors are largely using what's called kind of mass appraisal techniques, right? They're basically leveraging statistical models. applied across entire market areas. They're leveraging public records, things like square footage, bedroom count, lot size, you know, asset quality. But no one's walking your property, right? No one's accounting for the deferred maintenance or some of the functional limitations or obsolescence or just the unique characteristics of your property. The model really tries Or treats a property like an average, but it is it often isn't, right? and on top of that, there's a lag problem. So assessors are Miles: Mm. Sam - Ownwell: looking historically at a market. And so what we tend to see is that that doesn't always reflect kind of the the current the current market. and so you know that's really why we exist is to to act as a checks and balances, as a means to identify those errors, to look at each of our clients' properties at an individual level and make sure that they're being fairly, fairly assessed there. Miles: Nice okay. And so if, you know, everyone listening to this is is thinking now about their property taxes and and whether they should be kind of maybe appealing their assessment, should literally every host be considering it? Or is there kind of certain maybe criteria and situations where it's more likely that they've been incorrectly assessed? Sam - Ownwell: Yeah, yeah, it's a really good question. And and the short answer is yes, every property should be at least evaluated for appeal every year or every reassessment cycle in your state. And and that's not, you know, that's not a sales pitch for us. It's just kind of how the system works and it's why we've built our product around kind of continuous or or ongoing monitoring, right? This isn't something you do once after you purchase the property and then you're all set. It's really something that you should be looking at periodically or or annually because those assessments do and and can change. and you want to make sure each time that it really aligns with the the value of your your property. There are cases where it's more obvious than others, right? If if your assessment comes out at a much higher value than what you purchased the property for kind of in an open market transaction the prior year, then that can be maybe more of a slam dunk case than others. But what we really have have gotten good at and tried to master is identifying those opportunities, finding the right data and evidence to back up, you know, a reduction each and every chance we we get. Miles: Nice, okay. And what about kind of some of the the common, I guess, misconceptions you see property owners making or maybe mistakes that they're making when they start to look at property taxes and and the whole appealing process? Sam - Ownwell: Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of them and and there's a few that kind of come up, you know, over and over. So probably the most common or or most foundational one is hey, my my property tax bill is fixed, right? It it came from the government. I I there's nothing I can do. I need to pay it. And that's not necessarily true, right? As I said, it's based on an assessed value that can be challenged. Every property owner, every taxpayer has the right. the process can look different from you know, jurisdiction to jurisdiction. but it isn't something that that you just have to accept. There are some mechanisms, some remedies in place. second, you know, we hear a lot, hey, my assessment stayed flat, or even the value went down year over year. So I'm I'm good. and although that may be beneficial just from a a budgeting standpoint, it doesn't mean that maybe the the market or the value went down as much as it it should have. Right. flat, Miles: Okay. Sam - Ownwell: we always say flat doesn't mean accurate. and so again, always a good opportunity to just take a look, see if you know there's still additional kind of argument or or justification to be had there. And then the last one I'd mention is hey, I I don't really want to ruffle any feathers or maybe get penalized Miles: Mm. Sam - Ownwell: as a result of filing an appeal. And and that's a fair one. but in many markets. You actually can't get penalized. There really is no downside risk to filing an appeal. Worst case, the assessor says no and nothing changes. There are some exceptions to that. There are some markets where you want to be considerate of some of the downside risk. But that's something that we see and hear kind of all the time from our clients. Miles: Okay, interesting. and then I guess, you know, besides the appealing assessments, are there any kind of exemptions or tax benefits that hosts you probably just don't know exist and should be considering and looking at too? Sam - Ownwell: Yeah, unfortunately, most of the property tax relief and exemptions that exist are really targeted at primary residences, right? Homestead, senior, veteran, so primary residents specific or or really specific populations. And so if you own a dedicated, you know, investment property or or short-term rental, you likely won't qualify for for any of this relief. and so you know, and it's also worth keeping an eye on what's the legislative dialogue, you know, going on in in your market. states like Texas and Florida have passed some significant legislation providing additional relief to to homeowners, caps on assessed values, expanded, you know, homestead exemption and and other things. and so there's a real question out there right now on that needs to be made up for somewhere. And and so will that actually end up shifting kind of more of the b the burden to investors, to small business owners, to commercial properties. and so that's why property tax appeals are such a a helpful and and kind of useful lever for folks listening and and real estate investors to. to consider. Miles: Okay, nice. And so if anyone listening is thinking about doing an appeal, what's the kind of things that they should be gathering as kind of evidence to be able to kind of challenge Sam - Ownwell: Yeah. Miles: that property valuation? Sam - Ownwell: Yeah. The the single most important kind of document in property tax management is really the assessment notice itself. sometimes called a notice of appraised value or or just notice of value. the reason that's so important is the moment that that arrives in the mail, the clock starts, right? And and what we see in most of the jurisdictions we operate in. We see anywhere between twenty-five and and sixty days from the date of that notice is your deadline to take action. And if you miss that window, you have to wait until the next year or or maybe even the next reassessment cycle. so everything really flows from knowing when that notice arrives and and acting on it accordingly. but once you have it. and you've decided, hey, I wanna wanna take action. There's really three kind of main categories of evidence, right? The first would be comparable sales, you know, similar properties that have sold recently in your neighborhood. the second would be really property characteristics data. So you wanna make sure that what the county leveraged is accurate, right? Is the square footage and the lot size and number of bedrooms and asset quality or construction quality? Is all of that accurate? And then the third would be condition evidence, right? Photos, quotes, or invoices for repairs, documentation of functional issues or location disadvantages that may affect market value. and then in some markets, there's a concept of equity or or uniformity comps that can also be leveraged in in in your case. So this is the kind of data and the evidence that Ownwell builds on behalf of our clients, but would also be the the types of things that you would want to put together if you chose to to pursue this your yourself. And and every property owner has that right. They can file an appeal themselves or they can authorize an agent like Ownwell to go represent them. Miles: Nice, okay. So yeah, maybe nice segue to kind of talk us through exactly how that would work with own well. So like if I today go, Great, own well, you know, sign me up, let's get started. I want to look at you know, assessments for my properties. what do you guys actually do? How involved do I need to be in the process? Sam - Ownwell: Yeah, yeah, great question. And and again, that's where we spend a lot of time as a company is trying to make that as as simple and as easy as possible. So if you go to our website, sign up takes, you know, two to three minutes. You enter your property address or addresses, you verify some ownership information, and then you sign and and authorize us to act as your agent. And that authorization is what allows us to handle really everything that that follows. You can also complete a short onboarding survey, you know, provide a little bit more insight into your property condition, recent repairs or investments you've made, anything that may give us additional ammunition for that that case. And then from there, our team handles the entire process. So we'll comp we'll pull the comparable sales, excuse me, we'll build the equity arguments, we'll factor in all of that condition information. We'll package that into a formal evidence packet or submission. And then we'll engage the assessor, right? So we'll engage them informally, which is where a lot of cases can get resolved. And then if necessary, we'll attend hearings on your behalf. And if the situation warrants it, we'll even evaluate escalation, right? That could be appealing to the board, pursuing arbitration or litigation. Or any other mechanisms that may be available to us in your specific, specific jurisdiction. And you receive kind of updates on the status and results throughout the the entire process. So I think our clients really love that they can focus on building their business or or you know any number of other things that they have on their to-do Miles: Mm. Sam - Ownwell: list and you know we'll handle that that entire process for them. Miles: Nice, that's very cool. And yeah, it does sound like, you know, you're you're handling everything, but it'd be good to understand and I appreciate I'm basically asking how long is a piece of string here, but how long does the process typically take, you know, from start to finish? roughly, I guess, in many circumstances. Sam - Ownwell: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I I appreciate that that kind of qualification there. Cause Miles: This. Sam - Ownwell: the timeline is really, really market specific. And you know, ultimately Miles: Yeah. Sam - Ownwell: we're we're working with local government. and so it can take some time. you know, Texas is one of the most concentrated and and kind of fastest. protest deadline is in May. Hearings really run through the summer with most outcomes. resolve between let's call it June and and October, right? So a a handful of months. Florida, Georgia, California, Colorado, and and some of the other markets we operate in all have different processes, right? And so in general, we tend to tell our clients, you know, you can expect between, you know, two and and twelve months, right? It's a pretty wide range there, just depending on the on the state. And then, you know, again, Kind of how many different layers of the appeal process are we are we pursuing? and then I think what's really important for your audience is okay, what happens when the process is complete? So a reduced assessment will apply to that year's tax bill. and so if you've already paid your tax bill, you'll typically receive a refund. if we complete it ahead of those tax bills going out, then you should see that updated assessed value reflected in that that tax bill. and I think it's important, you know, this isn't a one time win, right? you Miles: Yeah. Sam - Ownwell: know, that sets a new baseline for future assessments, right? And so what we tend to see is that savings can really compound, you know, in future years. Miles: Nice. and then just quickly on I guess pricing model for own well. so you know, it sounds like you guys are gonna be busy at work while I'm going and doing other things. Sam - Ownwell: Yeah. Miles: and it's a drawn out process for you guys. Like, yeah, what does success look like for you guys and how how are we paying you for this whole process? Even, you know, Sam - Ownwell: Yeah. Miles: potentially if it doesn't go the way we want, right? And we're not successful with the pill. Sam - Ownwell: Yeah, yeah. So one of the things I love as you know head of partnerships and client success is we only win if our clients win. So it's a success-based fee. it's really the only structure that aligns our incentives with our clients. So you pay nothing up front. we don't even ask for payment information up front. and if we don't save you any money, you owe us nothing. when we do reduce your your tax bill. we take between 25 and 35% of savings on that specific tax bill. So we're not charging for kind of future savings that may or may not be the result of our appeal. It's really per appeal or or per assessment that we're we're challenging there. So it's a really cool model. I think it's something that our clients really appreciate because they know that we're going to be incentivized to to be aggressive in identifying opportunities. pushing as hard as we can through the process to try to maximize that that reduction. Miles: Nice, awesome. And obviously, you know, you're here today because you've recently partnered with Hospitable. how did you decide that that was kind of a Sam - Ownwell: Yeah. Miles: good fit? You know, why do short term rental hosts specifically have the opportunity here to, I guess, save more money? Sam - Ownwell: Yeah, yeah, we're super fired up about the partnership. And I think in part because your customers are exactly who we believe can benefit the most from what Ownwell does for for all of the reasons that we've already touched on. And, you know, I think from what I've learned too, hospitable hosts, you know, run their properties like a business, right? They're they're data driven, they're technology enabled. They're already choosing tools that reduce kind of friction throughout their operations. And so they're not, they're not passive. And that's exactly the profile of someone who, once they see that there's a real opportunity and kind of understand this more clearly, they're going to act on it. I also believe that STR hosts kind of have some exposure that a lot of homeowners don't. So I imagine that. Remote ownership is fairly common. You may be managing, you know, a property or properties and markets where you don't reside. And so you have less visibility into, you know, maybe the appeal timeline or into how the local assessor, you know, operates. In addition, multi-property ownership is is more frequent, right? And that multiplies both the opportunity. that we have, but also the challenges and and kind of creates more of an emphasis for a systematic approach. And then probably most importantly, you know, Hospitables built a great, great product, a great community. You guys do a good job of equipping folks with tools, resources, information. And I think in our business, what we've seen and learned over the last several years is is it really in an awareness gap. Right, once we can solve that and we can educate folks and make them aware of their rights as property owners, you know, what the property tax appeal process involves, it becomes a pretty quick decision to to take some action. Right. And so excited to partner with y'all to just spread that awareness and hopefully increase the impact we can have for for owners, you know, all across the country. Miles: Nice, awesome. Well I appreciate you taking the time, Sam. And just a final easy question for you, I think. where can folks go to find out a bit more about Ownwell? Sam - Ownwell: Yeah, yeah, appreciate you having us. yeah, to find out more, you can go to ownwell.com slash partner slash hospitable. the reason is there's an exclusive discount for hospitable customers, for hosts that we're excited to extend. and as I said, a couple minutes to sign up, but also lots of information, lots of resources there. And we'll try to back all of that up with really engaging in the hospitable community. so keep an eye out for things on hospitable as well. Miles: Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us today, Sam. Sam - Ownwell: Thank you. Miles: Thank you so much for listening to today's hospitable hosts podcast episode. Hopefully you enjoyed our episode and learned something new. Stay tuned for more episodes dropping soon. As always, please do go ahead and leave us a review if you enjoyed today's episode and like, share, and subscribe wherever you are listening. Thanks again.