Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 278: The Public Land Revolution is Alive with Land Tawney

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Ep. 278: The Public Land Revolution is Alive with Land Tawney · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This is episode number two hundred
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  Speaker 1: and seventy eight, and today we are catching up on
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  Speaker 1: all the latest going on with public lands in North
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: America with land TONI of back Country Hunters and Anglers.
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  Speaker 1: All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought
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  Speaker 1: to you by on X, and today on the show,
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  Speaker 1: I'm joined by land Tawny, the CEO of back Country
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  Speaker 1: Hunters and Anglers, and my goal today's episode was to
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  Speaker 1: get everyone and update on where's things stand with public
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: lands right now. Now. If you've been following this podcast
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: or myself for a great deal of other folks in
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the hunting and fishing community over the past few years,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: you are likely very well aware. But there's been a
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  Speaker 1: lot going on with public lands. There's been a lot
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  Speaker 1: of controversy, a lot of worry about the future of
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: these places. Uh, some of you probably remember. Let's go
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  Speaker 1: back to two thousand sixteen, for example, with the takeover
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: of the Mail Hour Refuge and armed takeover in which
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  Speaker 1: a bunch of folks took over this piece of public
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: land and started making a bunch of demands, including that
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: they wanted public lands given to states or private owners.
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  Speaker 1: You might have heard about this larger issue that this
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: was a part of, called the land transfer movement, which
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  Speaker 1: was being pushed by a certain group of politicians and
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  Speaker 1: lobbyists trying to get all of our federal public lands,
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  Speaker 1: national forests and BLM ground and wilderness areas and things
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: like this. They wanted that given away or transferred away
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: or sold off. You might have heard about this big
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: debate over national monuments UM and what led to eventually
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: to national minings being significantly slashed UM. You might remember
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Representative Jason Shavitz proposing a bill back in Gosh I
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  Speaker 1: think it was early two thousand seventeen. He proposed this
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  Speaker 1: a bill to sell more than three million acres of
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  Speaker 1: land that you and me could previously hunt or fish
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  Speaker 1: or camp or hike on. And then this huge pushback
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  Speaker 1: that we as a hunting and fishing an outdoor community
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  Speaker 1: kind of kind of put back on it. All. This
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: has been going on over the past few years. We've
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: talked about it quite a bit on the podcast I've
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  Speaker 1: talked about a whole lot on my social media platforms,
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  Speaker 1: and it's it's an issue that has been um of
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  Speaker 1: great interest to me personally because of you know, how
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  Speaker 1: special public lands have been to me and my family,
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  Speaker 1: into to so many other people we know, but also
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  Speaker 1: because of because of the really positive example that I
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  Speaker 1: think that this battle of sorts has shown, um as
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  Speaker 1: far as how we as a community can stand up. UM.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I just think it was it was incredible
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  Speaker 1: to see the number of people in the hunting and
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  Speaker 1: isshing world get informed and then engage in this issue
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  Speaker 1: to make sure that we have wild in public places
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  Speaker 1: left for all of us to enjoy across the whole country.
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  Speaker 1: And I mean, I get really, I get really pumped
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  Speaker 1: about this. But this this idea of public land, this
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  Speaker 1: land that's open to all of us, I mean, I
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  Speaker 1: just how can you not get fired up about that?
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  Speaker 1: You know, land access is getting harder every year, and
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm talking private land access for hunting in particular,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: which is probably most relevant to you and me maybe
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: as deer hunters, um. And because of that, more and
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: more hunters are turning to public land, trying it out
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  Speaker 1: and realizing that, Hey, there are some pretty awesome opportunities.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I, for example, I've been doing this now
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  Speaker 1: for a number of years, and this year I'm planning
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: either two or three out of state hunts and it's
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: all going to be on public land. And I guarantee
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  Speaker 1: it's all gonna be a whole lot of fun. And
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  Speaker 1: you guys are gonna hear all about it. There are
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  Speaker 1: so many great things that we can do on public land.
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  Speaker 1: Not to mention, not to mention, these are places that
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  Speaker 1: you just don't have to just hunt, but you can
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  Speaker 1: go hike, you can fish, you can camp, you can kayak,
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  Speaker 1: you can forage, you can climb, you can just walk
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  Speaker 1: around and explore. I mean, this public idea, this this
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  Speaker 1: democratization of food and resources and sceniory space solitude. I
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  Speaker 1: just don't think there's anything more American. And the fact
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  Speaker 1: that over the last hundred years plus a hundred plus years,
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  Speaker 1: really we've been able to develop this system of places
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  Speaker 1: that are protected for for us to use now but
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  Speaker 1: also for future generations. And then the fact that's still
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: today hundreds of years after Theater, or not hundreds, but
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  Speaker 1: hundred and twenty years or so after Theodore Roosevelt and
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  Speaker 1: these folks that stood up originally the fact that still
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  Speaker 1: now here in two thousand nineteen, there are a bunch
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  Speaker 1: of guys and gals that are still rallying to the
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  Speaker 1: defense of that idea that is that is badass and
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  Speaker 1: it gets me very excited and it makes me very proud.
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  Speaker 1: And that's why I'm excited about this episode and why
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: I wanted Land to join me, to help me recap
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: what's been going on over these past couple of eventful years.
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  Speaker 1: Where does things stand right now, and what does the
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  Speaker 1: future of public lands look like? And then finally, how
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: can we all be involved in it and make sure
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  Speaker 1: it's a positive one. That is what we're going to
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  Speaker 1: talk about in Land Tawny. He likes to say that
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  Speaker 1: the public land revolution is alive, and I one percent
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  Speaker 1: agree with that, and I'm very proud that so many
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: members of this community, this Wired to Hunt family, are
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: part of that. So with all that said, I think
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: we should just dive into our conversation with Land Tawny.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Alright with me back on the show, is Land Tawny.
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  Speaker 1: Welcome back, Land, Okay, it's so good to be back. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I always appreciate taking the time to do uh, to
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: do this, and and in particular this week because right now,
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  Speaker 1: as this podcast is going live, the two thousand nineteen
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  Speaker 1: Back Country Hunters and Anglers Rendezvous will be kicking off
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: in Boise, Idaho, And uh, I'm sure right now as
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: we're talking, which is a week before that, you are crazy,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: crazy busy. So so thanks for carving out the time
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: and having this conversation. It's organized chaos over here, but
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: we're getting it done and happy to get on the
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: phone with your part. I imagine it's got to be
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: pretty wild. So so this is what I what I'm
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: wondering about right off the right off the gate go
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: because as I said, this is gonna be going live
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  Speaker 1: on Thursday, which is I think the first day of
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: the Rendezvous, and in a day or two from that point,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: you will be standing on the big stage, probably for
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Storytelling Night, addressing a crowd of likely thousands of people,
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  Speaker 1: telling them about the state of b h A and
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: the state of public lands across the country. And I'm
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: just kind of wondering, what is that big take home
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  Speaker 1: message or that big rallying cry gonna be for everyone
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: that week during the event. What's your message. You know,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: I think the first part of that, it's just the
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  Speaker 1: amazing growth that we continue to enjoy over here at
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: dh a UM. You know, we'll congratulate everybody in that room.
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  Speaker 1: You know, we had a goal of getting to thirty
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  Speaker 1: thousand members last year back in November of last year.
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  Speaker 1: We're at twenty five, and we really leaned on our
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  Speaker 1: chapter leaders as well as members to kind of get
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: out spread the word and lo and behold, we met
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: our membership goal of thirty thousand. Today we're sitting at
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: thirty six thousand. So that's super exciting the growth at
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: that point. You know, I don't want to I'm knocking
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: on wood right now, but we've got seven chapters that
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: will be new chapters that will be established. So we'll
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: be welcoming in uh, Kansas, Oklahoma, Illinois, Indiana, West Virginia,
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  Speaker 1: West Virginia because me New Jersey UM Tennessee is breaking
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  Speaker 1: away from the Southeast chapter, and then Yukon up in Canada,
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  Speaker 1: and so that will bring us to forty five state
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  Speaker 1: based chapters here in the lower forty eight and then
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: three be up in Canada, and so you know, we're
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: getting close to total coverage and that's super exciting. So
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  Speaker 1: like the gross piece, but I think like the big
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  Speaker 1: one that I'll be talking about, Mark is really reveling
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  Speaker 1: in this wind that we just had on this public
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: lands package. And you know, this was a bill that
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  Speaker 1: contained the land of Water Conservation Fund, also contained a
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  Speaker 1: bunch of other public land pieces and you know that
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: vote that happened there it was in the Senate and
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: then three sixty three sixty two in the House, both
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  Speaker 1: kind of veto proof votes, and then the President sent
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  Speaker 1: it into law. And you know, you don't get those
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  Speaker 1: kind of votes anywhere out in d c Um. You know,
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  Speaker 1: there's a lot of parsonship that's going on. People seem
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  Speaker 1: to be on one side of the other and fighting
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  Speaker 1: all the time. And this, you know, this bill that
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  Speaker 1: had not only land water Conservation Fund stuff in it,
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  Speaker 1: but a ton of other things I get passed overwhelmingly.
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  Speaker 1: And I think that's something to like revel in and
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  Speaker 1: really celebrate and then take that energy, you know into
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  Speaker 1: kind of our work is we go and for the
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  Speaker 1: rest of the year. So that's gonna be the big message,
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  Speaker 1: I think, is you know, welcoming the family that's you
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  Speaker 1: have something from every single state like we did last year. Um,
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  Speaker 1: and then welcome to those new chapters celebrating the growth
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  Speaker 1: and celebrating the big one that we just had them
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  Speaker 1: about a month ago. Yeah, and that's that's pretty incredible
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  Speaker 1: that the John Dingle Junior Conservation Management and Recreation Act,
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  Speaker 1: I think is is the full name of this bill
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  Speaker 1: you're talking about. It is a big one. And and
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  Speaker 1: you know, as as I looked at that, as you
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: just said, a pretty resounding vote there that at least
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  Speaker 1: when I look at it, I see is that being
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  Speaker 1: proof positive of the impact that we as a community
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: and b h A and all the other hunters and
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: anglers and and other folks that enjoyed the outdoors. I
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: feel like that's like this big billboard across, you know,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: on the highway across the country saying, hey, we can
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: make a difference. Like over the last two or three
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  Speaker 1: or four years, there's been this really concerted effort across
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: the country to to make a stand for public lands.
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  Speaker 1: And I feel like this is like the the sign
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  Speaker 1: that like they were hearing us, like we really influence people.
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  Speaker 1: Is that how you see this too? Is this like
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  Speaker 1: an affirmation of all the work that we've all been
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: doing absolutely. You know, I think it's like the revolution
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  Speaker 1: is live, right and we're witnessing it. And I think
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: that you know, it's first started back you know, when
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Schape has tried to to really you know, sell two
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: million acres of public land and then that kind of
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: cry that happened on social media and all across the country.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I mean that I think that was the first piece
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: that I was like, oh man, this thing is really
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: starting to pick up some steam. Um. And then the
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: idea that was like playing defense, and defense is always
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: when you're losing something, I think there's always more of
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: a call to action. You know, people are more fired
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: up about losing um something that that they'll never get back.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: What I love about, you know, where we were with
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: this public lands package is that that's something that was
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: proactive and people still you know, they made phone calls,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: they showed up at meetings, they sent emails, and so
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: they're really feeling empowered right now. So I think it's
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: you're exactly right that there's been this like awakening um
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: I think around public lands and that you know that
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: really we don't have these public lands by accident, and
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: they're not going to be carried forward by accident either.
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  Speaker 1: And so when you get a big win like this,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: like that's a notch on the belt, and I think
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: we're gonna be able to use that momentum as we
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: go forward. But yeah, I think it's you know, we're
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: witnessing a public lands kind of revolution, and you know
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: that an indication of the validation of that revolution. Yeah,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: it kind of it kind of brings back echoes of
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: and tell me if you do disagree with this at all,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: but it kind of reminds me of of what happened
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: in like the late fifties and early sixties when there
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: was this big fight within the public land sphere over
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Dinosaur National Monument. They're gonna put a big dam in
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: there and it would have flooded these beautiful canyons out
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: there on the board of Utah and Colorado. And there's
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: a huge uprising of folks kind of across the conservation
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: community saying, hey, we are not okay with this incredible
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: place that was recently somewhat recently protected being flooded and
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: damaged for for development. And we ended up winning that battle.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: The damn was pulled out of the development plan, and
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: then the conservation community took that momentum, so they're playing defense.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: They had this momentum and they took it, and they
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: moved forward and actually got the Wilderness Act past a
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: handful of years later. Um. And then after that was
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: all sorts of great public plan and constant relations conservation
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: related things happening in the sixties and seventies. Do you
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: feel like we might be kind of in a similar
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: wave of momentum that we could push forward with that
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: kind of positive difference in the future. Yeah, I would
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: say absolutely, And I think it's a it's a great
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: kind of comparison and that, you know, I mean if
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: people are I think a lot of people have thought
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: their voice didn't count anymore in this country. You know,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: when you think about big business, you think about the lobbyists,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: you think, you know, man, I'm just one person. How
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: can I make a difference? And I think again, starting
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: back with kind of shape, it's kind of pushed back.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: And then now this positive peace, like the squeaky wheel
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: still gets the grease in this country, and people are
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: realizing that their voice does count. And yes, there's a
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: lot of deals that are done in the back rooms
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: out in d C. And there's a lot of influence
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: from lobbyists and and in big business, but you know,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: we the people ultimately are the ones making the votes.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: And I think when people start to speak up and
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: ask for things, even demand them, which I would say
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: it happened with Land and Water Conservation Fund once it's sunset,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: it as the people demanded that that we make sure
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: we permently authorize that program. That politicians listen, you know,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: ultimately at the end of the day, they want to
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: be elected again. And when the people you know are
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: just banging at their door, um, you know they listen
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: and and and while they do have those other influences,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: you know, they they want to be voted on in
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: those big businesses and and lobbyists like they only got
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: one vote too. So, um, I'm pretty excited about it.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: It's like it's like this empowerment kind of nature of
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: what's going on right now. And in thinking about how
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: we take the momentum from you know that these votes
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: that we just had in this public lands package, you
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: know two other things. So it's exciting times I think
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: to be limited. Yeah, So, so I want to talk
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: about the the Dingle Conservation Act in a little bit
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: more detail. But before that, I guess I think we
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: got a little caught up on the defense side. That
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: you talked about back with the Chief. That's bill that
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: came out h R. Six twenty two, and and everything
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: that happened back in I think that would have been
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: two thousands, six seventeen. I think it was January two
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: seventeen maybe that happened. Um. And like you said, that
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: was kind of like an Aha moment, not just for
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: us probably but probably for a lot of other folks
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: within the government kind of seeing what kind of momentum
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: was there. Um. And since that point, I remember having
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: a conversation with Randy Newburg about this that that was
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: like a very overt bill saying like, hey, we want
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: to sell this land. And then there was a handful
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: of other things around the time where they're talking about
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: selling or transferring public land ends and and of course
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: you guys and and this whole community kind of stood
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: up and said, no, we are not okay with a
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: transfer or sale of land. Um. It seems like since
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: that point there hasn't been as much There haven't been
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: as many proposals like that that overtly call for that
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: kind of thing. But now there seems to be this
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: death by a thousand cut strategy, like little stabs here
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: and they're taking taking a chunk out of a specific
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: regulation or specific place or something like that. Is that
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: kind of where you see things right now as far
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: as the evolution of what was this land transfer movement
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: and and I don't know, maybe now it's like a
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: land chip away at it movement. Um. Is that an
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: accurate way to describe it. I think that's an accurate
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: way to describe it at a federal level, UM. But
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I think at a state level there is still like this.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: I think this movement of transfer or cell of public
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: lands is still alive. And well, um there is a
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: uh will that management area right now in Missouri that
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: the legislature is trying to put up on a chopping block.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: I think it's I might not get this right, but
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: I thinks like nine thousand acres um that was just
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: established recently, as you know, as this wildlife management area
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: where people can go hunt and fish, and you know,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: the legislature is trying to take that ability away. Um.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: There's no net gain of public lands bills that are
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: happening all across the West and the mid West. Um.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: And and so I think that that kind of sell
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: and transfer movement is alive and wealth to stay level.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: But at the federal level, I think you're exactly right,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: but I think it's it's done. And and so that's
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: again because the people spoke up and they were loud,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: and I think made an example in particular, you know,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: out of Mr Schafitz, and you know that picture that
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: he had of himself and that uh, that dog and
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: he's wearing all samos um. That was an indo. You
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: know that he was responding to the people. And so
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: I think his colleagues recognize that. And I still think
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: you know, um Centator Mike Lee in particular, he gave
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: a speech this last summer to uh kind of a
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: very conservative of pro transferred crowd and talked about how,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: you know that maybe right now the atmosphere wasn't there
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: to actually get something done, but he said that he
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: was in this for the long, long term and the
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: long term fight, and then he was committed to making
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: sure that we you know, transferred earners sold those public lands.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: And so I think it's always going to be underneath
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: the surface mark. But right now at a federal level,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: I think we've pushed back, UM, and I think again
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: that's the people that have done that. The politicians have
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: listened at a state level, they haven't quite heard that
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: kind of Vietnam like like push back and disdain for
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: those ideas as quite as much as they could, especially
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: in you know, just in Iowa, and they had a
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: no net game kind of bill there and that's where
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: we have a brand new chapter there. And you know,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: we were able to mobilize people. And that's a pretty
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: small chapter they started I think earlier this year like
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty members and now they already have
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: four hundred and fifty. But they were able to push back.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: But again, like that's happening at a state levels, Well,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it to that UM at all at
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: a state level. And then I also say it's always
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: the surface. Yeah, um so, so I want to talk
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: about that Iowa group too, because that was a pretty
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: great thing, a pretty neat example of these new chapters
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: jumping up in different parts of the country than you
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: typically think of when it comes to public lands and
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: and right away making an impact. I saw an article
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: of a few weeks ago showing that hundreds of folks
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: showed up at a committee meeting about this bill, and
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: I don't think that probably had ever happened about a
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: public land bill in Iowa around this type of issue.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: And it sounded like folks were pretty taken aback by it.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: And it sounds like it got made some impact in
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: the House. It sounds like a center version of the
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: bill maybe was still pushed forward. But that was cool
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: to see. But back to the back to the bigger
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: picture stuff. Yeah, given like the fact that there is
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: this kind of underneath the surface, still a desire to
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: work towards sale or trans public land in the long run,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: but in the short term, they're now taking this, you know,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: get a little bit here, a little bit there. Um,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: what kind of stuff should we be keeping an eye
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: out for or are there any specific proposals or bills
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: out there right now that are that are particularly dangerous
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Because I feel like when we were talking about sales
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: and transfers, like those headlines got attention, you know, that
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: got Joe Rogan, and that got all these other people
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: to like jump on Instagram and say something about it.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: But it seems like these other ones can fly under
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: the radar much more easily. Um, how do we keep
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: that from happening? How do we keep track of the
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: smaller things that add up to big things. Yeah, that's
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: a great question. I think that you know, nothing is
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: going to be as sexy as like, you know that
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: kind of public Land's kind of sail out. And when
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I say that, it's just like, that's what I mean,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: You're totally right. You know, when Joe Rogan picked this up,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: I think that's one of the only times he's used
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: as platform for advocacy. Um, And there was a you know,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: immediate threat, and you know, it was something that was
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: very tangible and people can understand, and they jumped all
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: over it, and so, um, that's pretty sexy to me
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: as far as like organizing the world is very simple. Um,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: I think some of these death by a thousand cuts pieces,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: they're not as sexy at all. I mean, I think,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: you know, one thing that is super important is to
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: watch the budget. And you know, right now the Congress
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: is working on a budget and and figuring out kind
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: of how they appropriate funds and then you know, like
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: how they're going to keep the government open as well
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: as kind of fund our agencies at a for service level,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: A Bureau Plant Management level, at a U S Special
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Life Service level. And you know, the budget that the
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: President came up with this year had really drastic cuts
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: to all three of those agencies UM, some in the upwards.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: And and so at that point, you know, that's that
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: death by a thousand customer you're talking about, that really
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: is starving these agencies of the food that they need.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: And so ultimately, you know, they can't do their jobs,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: they can't keep roads open, they can't do while I've
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: had it, that improvement projects UM, and and that makes
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: the body of these agencies look sick and then feeds
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: into this idea of sale um. But budgets aren't that sexy.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: You know, it's just playing and simple. It's a it's
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: just not something that people necessarily got wi around. And
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: so I think our job is to make you know,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: make that simple. I think you know, as in you
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: as a communicator, to make that stuff simple. And then
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: when we have leverage points where we have action, is
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: to to really be able to reach out to people
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: and engage them. And again, I don't think we're gonna
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: get you know, necessarily the the Vietnam kind of pushback
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: that we've got with shape its um. But I think
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: it's a place for us to you know, I think
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: there's much more hyper awareness around public lands and other
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: manage now than there ever has been, at least in
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: my career, and and so I think let's use that
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: as to our advantage and work on things. Um. You know,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: I think this this idea of energy domination right now
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: in this country that has you know, kind of hurt
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: our stage grounds conservation implementation plans, is putting oil and
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: gas you know, development in the middle of you know,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: the longest mule deer migratory corridor in the country, which
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: isn't isn't uh whelming. Like those are the kind of
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: things that I think we need to pay attention to
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: and really be contact in our lective officials about as
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: well as administrative officials about and leting them know how
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: we feel. And so to me, again, that's b achance
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: job is to really make those things as simple as
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: possible and then make the you know, the connection to
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: these people that make decisions as easy as possible as well.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: So that's I think, you know again, like I it's
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: how do we make it, you know, so people get
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: more engaged. I think that's just education in a lot
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: of ways. Um. You know, I think we're there's a
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: lot of positive stuff that I can talk about that
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: we're gonna be working on, which I'm glad that not
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: just playing defense, but people need to stay visual one
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, And I feel like with all these
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: little things like that, Um, not only is it easy
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: to not even find out a out of, but I
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: also worry, like on my end of it, as someone
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: who's like trying to spread the word about things and
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: none yours and you're trying to spread the word about things. Um.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: There's this idea of I think I think people refer
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: to as like issue fatigue or something along those lines, um,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: where like if if you keep honking the horn or
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: or yelling into the megaphone saying danger, danger, or whatever,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: the more and more you say that, the more and
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: more you do that, the more people eventually start to
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: tune it out and just there's too much. They can't
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: they can't send an email for every single issue. UM.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: So this is like one of the things I internally
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: struggle with, like, how do I pick and choose the
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: things that we really need to get folks motivated to
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: act on? How do you how do you think about that.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: How is bh A thinking about that, um, because it's
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: probably something we all need to be kind of thinking about,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: right it is. I think, you know the way we
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: try to couch it again, like these leverage points. You know,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: what is the you know in the process, what is
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: the decision making that's going on? And so you know,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: let's take Land Water Conservation Fund. You know, there was
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of education effort that happened around that fund.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: I mean it was like the best kept secret for
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: a while in the United States, like you know, the
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: number one access to that nobody knew about. And so
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: there was a ton of education that got put into
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: that piece. And so you're you know, creating reports, you're
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: showing examples, um of real places that people can go
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: and experience. And so then by the time that thing
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: sunset last fall, people knew much more about the Land
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: and Water Conservation Fund, and so when they find out
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: that this thing, you know, is going away, that's when
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: that pushed back really was was um, I think, uh,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: pretty harsh and and that wouldn't happen I think without
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: that education. And so I think there's like stages to
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: all these things. And so I think the education piece
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: in particular is important. Then it's like not going I
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: think you're totally right with like an issue fatigue. It says,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: let's not you know, say, if bill gets introduced, then
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: it's going to go through a committee, then it's the
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: North center subcommittee, then it goes into a committee, and
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: then now it's going to be on the House floor
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: center floor, like if you took action, if you ask
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: people to take action every single one of those like
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: kind of points. I think that's to make it that
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: issue fatigue. So it's like trying to figure out like
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: when the most important things are and I would say,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: you know that would be in an ultimate committee meeting
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: and then um, when it's on the floor either of
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: the Senate of the House. So trying to pick and shoes,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: so education and then picking and choose kind of when
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: those leverage points are and is that can I tell
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: you like a perfect playbook for that? You know? You know,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: I think there's sometimes you know, there's bills that are
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: introduced that are basically just ideas and they're floated as balloons,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: you know, trying to figure out if that, you know,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: if there's an opportunity to move them forward. Is that
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: you know, things that we should be spending time on.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: You know, it just kind of depends on what that
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: bill is. And so um, that's again that's why John
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Gale gets paid the big cash over here at v
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: h A or whatever. Maybe not the big cast that
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: some cast um to uh to really think about like
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: that leverage point. And we have you know, somebod out
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: in DC. Now we've got partners that we can talk
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: to about because if you do that too much again,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: people stopped responding. And that's the last thing we want,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: especially right now when they're feeling that juice so much
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: that they're voice both count So speaking of their voice
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: counting and speaking of LBCF, let's let's revel a little
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: bit in that we we briefly mentioned that it was
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: this big win and improved positive of the fact that
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: we could all make a difference. But um, but for
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: those who aren't aware of what that was all about,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: can you give us like the thirty second cliff notes
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: on what we achieved with the passing of this bill, um,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: and and probably especially with l WCS as you mentioned
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: that as well. Sure, so for those who don't know
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: what the Land of Water Conservation Fund is It was
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: established in than king sixty four when oil and gas
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: development was starting to increase in the Gulf of Mexico.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: And the thought then of Congress was, if we're doing
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: you know this this re furs extraction on one resource
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: in the Gulf, we should be you know, giving back
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: to another. And and so that bill passed, I think
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: the Senate one originally. So it's huge bipartisan support basically
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: taking excise taxes off of or excuse me, royalties off
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: of oil and gas development and putting that that back
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: into conservation and access state side. And so I think
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: of the counties in the United States have utilized this money.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: And that's all the way from you know, baseball fields
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: and swimming pools and rural America to UH parks to
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: fishing access sites to big kind of conservations, um easement um,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: to you know, additions to our public lands of state.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: And so this this fund has again been used in
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four. It's sunset last September September, and which
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: meant that you know, we were going to have the
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: ability to to really send these funds out stateside anymore.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: And and so now that it has been passed, it's
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: permanently authorized and so don't have to worry about this
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: thing sunsetting anymore. What that legislation did not do literally
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: provide funding. And so still we have to go back
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: to the appropriations process every year and try to get
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: as much out of the nine million has been authorized
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: back to this this program. And you know recently that's
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: enjoyed anywhere from like three hundred four hundred million dollars
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: that you know back in four that brought you a
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: lot more than it does today, um. And then that
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: has to be split up, you know, between all safety states.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: And so the next plus with that bill really is
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: with that fund is to try to get it for
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: dedicated funding, so away from the appropriations process, dedicated funding
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: and full funding, and that full funding would be at
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: nine million dollars and that would get us you know,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: a lot better places, um than we are today. There's
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: opportunities and there's tons of landowners and tons of access
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: opportunities all around this country. But if we don't utilize
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: just you know, don't have the money to utilize now,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: you know, potentially those opportunit just go away. So that's
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: lwcf UM. It's awesome, awesome tool, and you know it
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: again has been used by the counties in this country. Um.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Besides you know, the that big, big piece, and I
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: think that was a driving factor when you see the votes.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: There's also some some smaller pieces within that and um
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: one of them would be the Frank and Genie Moore.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: While steel had special management area that's in Oregon's the
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Steelhead Spot UM that basically provided some protection along um
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: this river to make sure that you know, the steel
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: had could be around forever. Um. There was mineral withdraw
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: that happened in the Mental Valley and again pretty much
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: around fish of Yellostone Gateway. There was another place where
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: there was mineral withdrawal basically saying that you can do,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: you know, everything you want on that public land besides
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: take out minerals. And the Yellostone Gateway just like it sounds,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: it was right outside of Yellowstone Park. Just not a
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: place that you wanted to have like an open pit
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: mine there. UM. And there was other I think ultimately
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: there was about five million acres of new wilderness that
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: was protected, about five hundred miles of wild and scenic
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: river um. So that was huge. And then one of
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: these ones that uh, you know that people probably don't
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: pay attention to that much, But was re authorization of
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: the Neotropical Migratory Bird Conservation Act, which say about five
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: times staff that's almost harder than the Dingle Junior act um.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: But it prontly authorized that and and then increased funding
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: to six point five million dollars. And so these are
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: four you know, neotropical birds little these little birds that
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: enhance you and I, you know, time out in the woods.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: There are the things that we're pursuing, but I couldn't
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: imagine my life without them on the ground. It kind
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: of goes back to that that Aldo Leopold saying like
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: that all parts matter, you know, it tends to be
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: good for the biological biological community. That's good, and when
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: it's not, you know, it's it's it's a bad thing.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: And so this is really making sure that our ecosystems
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: um our whole um, at least for migratory bird um.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: So that that was a big piece of that as well.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: But then there was other pieces that I could talk about,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: but I think those are some highlights. Back on the
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: LBCF front. You mentioned the fact that yeah, it's reauthorized,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: but it's not fully funded. Um I think I saw
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: recently that a bill was proposed to permanently fully funded.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Is that right? And is that one of those leverage
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: points that we need to really focus on and push
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: on that specifically or is it still early on that No,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: I'd say absolutely so. Right now bill has been introduced, UM,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: and it was introduced with bipartisan support, and I can't
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: remember the exact numbers, but I had equal Democrats and
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: equal Republicans and a good representation in the Senate. And
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: so that bill has been introduced. The calls for full
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: funding so at nine million, and then dedicated funding so
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: off the appropriation cycle. And so that bill. You know,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: if anybody's listening to this right now, they can call
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: their senator and ask them to become a co sponsor
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: of that bill. U see trying to think if I
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: got something, I can tell you exactly what that is.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: I will look for that and I'll tell you UM
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: and so like that. If they if they, all you
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: have to do is we even need to build number.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: But it's just you know, call your elected official, UM
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: and say, become a co sponsor of the bill to
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: fully fund and fully and dedicated funding to the landwater
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Consulation Fund and and so that's a big deal right now,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: and I think that that will move through the Senate um.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: And then we got a little bit of a different
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: situation in the House, which you know, we don't have
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: a build introduced there yet, but there's some questions about
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: where they want that funny to come from. So, um,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: that's something you can do right now. Okay, that's definitely
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: a good one to to be keep an eye on
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: and in an easy way to make a difference on that, because,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: like you said, LWCF, it's not something that's just impacting
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: folks and the Rockies. It's not just someone who's impacting
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: folks in the Pacific Northwest or down in like these
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: big public land areas that people think of. I mean,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: that's I remember looking up there's there's a map somewhere.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: I can't remember where I found this, but it mapped
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: out all the different l w CF funded projects across
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: the country over time, and I could see, like a
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: river that I love to fish, there was a project there.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: There was a force that I used to hunt, There
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: have been a project there. There was somewhere in the
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: city where I grew up. I mean, there's all these
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: things to impact people in the Midwest, in the Northeast,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: and the South. I mean, it's across the board. This
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: is this is positively impacting people's lives. So we've got
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: a big part of it across the finish line. But
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: this is you know, it's great to have it, but
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: if there's no money in the fund, we can't do much. Um. So,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: so yeah, let's let's use that as one of the
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: focus series. UM yeah, I mean, I would, I would.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: You know, it's it's super important. Sorry, it's super important
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: here in the West for sure. But you know, as
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: I'm traveling across the country and kind of you know,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: doing my due diligence and and you know, kind of
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: studying what's going on in two of these states. Like
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: I'll take Iowa again as an example, is that you know,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: we have two percent public lan um they ranked forty
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: ninety eight out of fifty. It kind depend on how
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: you count it as far as how much public lands
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: they have compared to other states. And the Land of
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Water Conservation Fund quite literally is pretty much the only
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: opportunity they have to increase the public estate there in Iowa,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: and they've done that in recent years. Um. I mean
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: it's again I think this this property was like nine
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: thousand acres or ten thousand acres. That's huge, you know
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: for them, and they're that's something that you know they
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: can make now access and go a hut and fish on.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: So to me, I think it's just as important, um,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: you know, in in the Midwest and the East as
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: it is in the in the West, and that you know,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: not only as a way to grow to the state,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: but also to gain access to you know, waterways in particular. Yeah,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: in your travels across all these different states. Now, as
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: you mentioned, there's all these new chapters opening across the
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: rest of the country, the East, the Midwest, etcetera. Um,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: are there any other like local issues you've come to
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: become aware of when it comes to these public land
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: concerns or opportunities? UM, I mean you've been everywhere. I've
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: seen in Washington, I seen in Iowa, have seen in Minnesota. UM,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: any other examples other than that when you mentioned Iowa
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: that that stand out is something Folkstionelbo you know, I
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: think that Uh, I mean, this is this takes us
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: away maybe totally from the public Plan's piece, but I
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: think the CWD is becoming justice. Yeah, I mean it's
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: that's on everywhere I go. It's on the people's like
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: on the forefront of their mind and trying to figure out,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: you know, what they do. And you know, Wisconsin kind
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: of took a slow play and now they're paying for
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: it a little bit. And our chapter up there's actually
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: leading kind of an effort on for us for a
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: policy statement on you know c w D. What do
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: you do once you get it? And how should we
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: kind of address that? And so I think c w
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: D is at the forefront of almost every single conversation
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: that I have, no matter where I am, um, And
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: that's unfortunate that, uh you know that that that conversation
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: is becoming elevated because that means it's that disease is
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: literally reading everywhere. At the same time, I think that
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: since it is being elevated, I think there's you know,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: opportunities for conversations around that. Um. You know again, I
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: think i've you know, we don't even have a chapter
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: in Oklahoma yet, but you know, I went down there
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: and we did a couple of point nights and talk
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: to them, and then some stuff happened to state legislature
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: around restricting you know, the Fishing Game Agency in buying
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: kind of new public man you know from willing willing
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: private landowners that want to either give their land to
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: the state or sell it, you know, UM to them
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: that there was legislations proposed there that you know what
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: has said that the legislature had to approve anything that
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: went forward, and so are our folks weren't even developed
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: as a full on chapter, but they were able to
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: work with you know, the Department UM and then members
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: really pushed back against that piece. And so I think
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: if there's I mean, this isn't an issue, what I
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: would say, there's a lot of hope across this country
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: right now. You know, especially in these states like Iowa,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Handsas Um, Indiana, Oklahoma that really don't have a lot
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: of public plan I think they value it almost more.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Um in places where we have a lot of public planks.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes we take it for granted. They do not, Um,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: they really value these places. And UM. I think the
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: one that I would say it's an issue it's popping
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: up everywhere is really water access and whether that be
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: up in South Dakota where they're trying to limit lake
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: access where now half the lake is considered private even
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: though there's been public funds put into boat ramps. UM.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: That's an interesting situation down Louisiana. UM kind of marsh
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: access is being challenged all the time. And so you know,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: places that that people have gone for you know, lifetimes
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: are now being restricted or these little passes are being
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: gated off. And you look at beach access in Florida
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: and then North Carolina and in California that's being restricted
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: where we challenged that, say, um, all like that water access.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: You know, I think the there's a couple of ways
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: to look at water, UM, both for like drinking and
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: kind of irrigation, but also for recreation. And I think
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: there was a quote at one point on the maybe
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: it's something we live by here in Montana, but whiskeys
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: for drinking and waters were fighting. And I think as
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: you know, water becomes more and more of a finite resource,
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: like you're gonna see that become much more of an
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: issue all the way across the country, and you know
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: in the Louisiana in particular, I don't know how much
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: you know about that. The river delta, Okay, so there's
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: a Missispan River Delta that's been you know, it's like
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: the most productive water fowl places in the country. I
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: think that winter our ducks. It's awesome for redfish and
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: speckled trout. It's kind of like a nursery. And that
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: marsh has been kind of disappearances the twenties because we
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: cut that river off, um you know, like the all
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: the fresh water and sediment that comes from up north,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: you know, Montana, Minnesota. Uh that trickles down, all that
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: just goes out in the middle of the goals. And
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: we did that to protect that, you know, protect the
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: people that were living down there from the you know
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: every year in the spring when there was a flood,
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: which is a good thing, but what that's done is
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: it's it's really killed the marsh because it doesn't it
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: isn't supplemented about that fresh water in the sediment. And
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: so as that marsh has receded, I think it's received
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: even as you know, but the size of the state
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: of Vermont as that's receded, like that just puts way
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: more stress on you know, water access because there's less
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: places to go. And so I think, you know, while
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: there's been traditional access down there for a long time, Um,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: now that that you know there's less and less places
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: to go, then this has kind of coming to the head. So, um,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: water is gonna be something I think that we continually watch.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: And we've hired somebody over here at d h A
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: and that's all they do is like a kind of
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: water access issues across the country, and so you know,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: that's basically trying to get up to speed the experts
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: on that piece and then engage our people on the ground. Yeah. Yeah,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: that's definitely one of those things that impacts everybody, whether
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: you hunt or fish or just want clean water, which
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: which brings us to something that has been all over
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: the news just recently, which is the changes to the
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: Clean Water Act. Um, can you and I think we're
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: well correctly if I'm wrong, but the comment period has
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: past us now unfortunately, but I think it's probably still
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: important that we understand what's going on if if if
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: we don't already, can you get us up to speed
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: on on what's been proposed as far as changes to that.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Why you know what the Clean out Water Act even
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: is maybe for some folks would be good to know too. Yeah,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: I think the when you talked earlier and I thought
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: this was great when you talked about kind of like
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: the momentum and start back in the sixties, you know
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: around um kind of just public lands. And then we
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: got the Womanness Act, and later in the seventies have
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: you know, the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts that
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: were established, and really the Clean Water Act was originally
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: established because you know, we were just polluting our rivers
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: um here in the United States. I mean there was
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: rumors that you could literally um right on the fire,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: you know, because they had so much oil in them. Um.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, it's just it's just crazy that that is.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: You know, it's not that long ago when you think
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: about it. And and so that's the way it was originally, um,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: you know put forth is basically to protect the waters
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: of the US that belonged to you and I and
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: every American and to make sure that we had those
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: you know again, that we had clean water for drinking
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: and for irrigation and and so that when that was
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: established again it was like bipartisan Nixon's had that into law,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: and and so it's just great kind of conservation victory.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Now there's been some challenges to uh, what is actually
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: a jurisdictional water so underneath the Clean Water Act, and
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: that one of those challenges through a court case was
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: around temporary wetlands and intermittent streams. So temporary wetlands are
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: these wetlands like in North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, and
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: other places in the country where they're only wet during
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: the spring, and so you know, there's there's there's the
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: spring rains, and and there's these little dips in the
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: in the topography and those they are filled with water. Well,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: those have awesome invertebrate life, so insect life in there
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: that are really really important to ducks in particular waterfoll
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: and so um. While they're not like those those are
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: not connected directly to a river, back in two thousands,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: those uh they lost protection. So those temporary wetlands. The
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: same thing happened with intermittent streams. Intermittent streams, you know,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: are only run during the spring as well when it's
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: kind of high water, and so they're not year round streams,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: but they're super important especially to uh uh spawning trout.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: And and so both those lost protections back in two thousands.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: And then the Abam administration that the length the uh
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: comment period and throughout that comment period, I think there
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: was over a million people that provided comments, the majority
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: of which, like supermajority of which were to restore protections.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: Is that's exactly what the administration did, you know, restoring
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: protections to intermittent streams and temporary wetlands. And then the
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: new administration came in and said, no, we're gonna roll
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: it back again. So at must we're gonna start a
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: process and look at that. And so that's what's been
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: going on. I think that comment period was over last week,
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: and again I think there's an overwhelming amount of comments
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: there in support of restoring kind of these protections. Are
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: keeping these protections, but um, you know, there's gonna be
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: a decision made that we're that we're worried about that's
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: really gonna take away protections for the intromittent streams and
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: temporary web us. So unfortunately it's become like this political football.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: This gets passed back and the fourth instead of when
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: you know, it was established back in the in the seventies,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: when it was really a bipartisan nature and something that
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: you really stood the test of time. It's open tsan. Yeah,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: So you bring up an interesting point this this whole
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: game of political football where it's like this pendulum is
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: swinging every four to eight years, where you get pro
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: conservation stuff, um, from one party, and then a new
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: administration comes in, it swings the other way and stuff
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: gets pulled back, and then it goes back and forth,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: back and forth. And it doesn't seem like since the seventies,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: really late sixties and the seventies when you had that
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: you just talked about with Nixon passing the Clean Air
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: and Clean Water Act, and then that was the Endangered
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: Species Act, and there was I mean, all these things
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: that the wellness cycle we talked about in the sixties,
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: all this really foundational stuff that now are we depend on,
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: you know, our environment and public lands are all a
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: lot of ways depending on those those acts that passed
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: there in the sixties and seventies by Republicans and Democrats.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: We haven't really had that kind of biparts and support
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: at all since then. Um, maybe barring this this recent
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: bill that just passed in a in a pretty rare
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: by by parts and fashion, do you think do you
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: think we can ever get back to what it was
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: at that time in the in the seventies, Um, do
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: you think that this is this recent bill is an
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: example that happening, or is this kind of a flash
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: in the hand and it will probably get right back
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: to these issues are split down party lines and you're stuck.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: It's a really good question. I think we're living in
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: very interesting times. Um, you know the I think what
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: happened since the seventies and kind of early eighties when
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: there was this kind of bipartisan nature and people were
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: working together. I think there was a wedge that was
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: driven between the sportsman's community and the environmental community. And
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: I think when you have those two working together, I
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: think that's why That's why I surmise of why we
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: had such bipartisan efforts and it got such great things
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: accomplished back at that time. And I think there's been
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: a you know, a really thoughtful, systematic kind of division
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: and created between the two. Um is that we're gonna
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: come back? I'm not sure. I think that one thing
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: that I'm super excited about is as kind of you know,
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: the the other human sports, I guess human powered sports
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: folks get more organized, so like the kayakers, the mountain bikers,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: the climbers, backpackers, as they're getting more organized, that I'm
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: starting to feel like we're getting to some of that
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: critical massages. And I think that play it out, you know,
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: in a big way with those public lands packers that
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: just packed just passed in such overwhelming fashion. I think that,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: you know, that it will be interesting to see kind
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: of how um just emerging kind of voice works with
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: kind of hunters and ahbers who you know, we've been
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: doing conservation and caring about public lands for a hundred
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: and fifty years and so as those you know, and
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: I don't I hate to kind of pigeonholed people in
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: places like you know, there's plenty of our members the
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: ride mountain bikes and go back country skiing and kayaking
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: when they're not hunting and fishing. You know, their outdoors people,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: and so you know, whatever chance they get there out
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: in the woods around the water. Um. But I do
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: think there is kind of like this perceived division between
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: kind of by so again, the human power folks and
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: the hunters and anglers. And I think I'm started to
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: see that that's coming together, and so I have great
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: hope in that. And you know, when you think about
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: like the people that hunt and fish and the people
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: that kayak and Mountain Bike. Like, that's every single political
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: stripe in this country. You know, that's a that's Democrats,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: that's Republicans, that's independents, that's libertarians, that screen party, Like
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: all those people love to get outside and on the water,
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: and so I I don't want to be you know
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: too um the classes you know, so have full on
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: this thing. But like that gives me hope, Mark, and
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: and I think that, you know, at the end of
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: the day, I think that that if we bring these
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: two groups together, we're not going to agree on everything
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: all the time, the boy on the things that we
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: can't agree upon, like this public Plan's package. If we
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: can have a unified voice, and I think that we'll
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: get what we want. I thought it was really encouraging
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: last year at the b h A Rendezvous of two
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: eighteen when uh, you know, in a very symbolic I
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: thought it was very symbolic of this kind of bringing
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: together of these two halves of the outdoor community. When
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: a Van Schinnard you know, made an appearance that the
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: rendezvous was walking around the beers bands in public Lands
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: to night, he shared a story and and stood up
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: on stage in front of everybody and said that this
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: was like the I think he said something on the
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: lines like this is the most impressive group of people
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: I've ever seen. Um. And you know, he's the for
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: those who don't know, he's the founder and CEO of Patagonia,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: which is I think they've kind of established themselves as
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: as a leading voice for public lands and conservation related
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: issues in that community, if you want to call the
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: ri I crowd. UM, I feel like they have really
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: taken that strongest stance. And so to have like the
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: leader of that section or that group saying, hey, I'm
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: all for being here with a bunch of hunters and
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: anglers um enjoining hands to to fight for these common causes.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: I thought that was like really great positive symbolism to
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: see these two groups of people saying, hey, we can
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: we can do these things together, even though, like you mentioned,
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: we still disagree on a lot of stuff, like Nard
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: and a lot of folks of Patty going in and
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of folks in that community will disagree with
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of hunters about specific things. You know, let's
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: talk about grizzly bears are all sort of different hunting
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: relations issues, Like there's gonna be stuff there, um, But
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: I love the fact that there are these things that
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: we can set aside some of these differences and say, Hey,
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: you might live in the city, I live in the country.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: You might vote for this vote person, I might vote
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: for this person. You might talk like this, I might
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: talk like that. But there are these things that we
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: can come together on because bigger than those petty differences. Um.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: And and like you said, I feel like the Dingle
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: Conservation Act was one of those um results of that
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: kind of thing happening. So so I agree with you.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: I hope that and I think there are these examples
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: of the fact that that's that's starting to happen. Um.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: But I don't know where I heard, but someone said,
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: like the fish rots from the head first. Um, And
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: I'm hoping the opposite is true. So I'm hoping because
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: I I see like this this biparson nature of like
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: the the Rii crowd and the Cabella's crowd, Like I
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: think we're starting to come together here down in like
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: the body, like the average everyday people were saying, Hey,
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: the hunters and anglers and mountain bikers and kayakers and
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: wildlife watchers, we can get together to fight for these
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: public lands. But it's how do we get the head
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: of the fish. So are politicians Republicans, democrats, how do
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: we get them to make sure to do the same thing?
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: And and probably, like like we've been talking about, yelling
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: really loud and very consistently to the right people, probably
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: eventually reverses the fish route. Right. Yeah, I love that analogy.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: By the way, I'm trying to figure out where I'm
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: on that fish right now. I think the uh, I
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: think it goes back to like this idea of like
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: the rule a little bit. No, we're gonna agree upon
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: of the of things and then we disagree. And I
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: would say, you know, amongst my friends that I hang
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: out with, that we're on a rule, and like that's
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: pretty good for us. And and and I'd say the
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: same thing with my wife. You know, like if I
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: if I told my wife that we had to agree
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: upon pent of the same things all the time, I
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be married to her, and vice versa. And and
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: so I think this eight twin rule um is an
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: important thing to remember. And and yeah, I think I
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: think the grassroots are again there are many of the
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: same people you when you think about the foodie movement.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: That's happening right now in this country, and a lot
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: of kind of new hunters that are early twenties, early
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: thirties that didn't grow up hunting, but they're super active outdoors.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: They grow their own gardens, and now they want to
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: kill their own meat. I like, that's that crowd, you know.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: And I think that you know, we're doing storytelling events
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: and in Minneapolis and in Seattle and in San Francisco
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: and some of these urban centers. You know, we're getting
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: some of those new people that are there and they're
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: super interested and you know, want to jump in. And
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: and I would say, you know, the kid who grew
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: up uh, you know, hunting and fishing, you know, I'm
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Dad's back and just doing stuff from a very young age.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: Like like, these people are almost more passionate to me
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: when they come to it because it's brand new to them,
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: you know. And and so I welcome them to the floor.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: And I think again that you know, that food might
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: be the best play to kind of bridge the gap
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: with these folks. And you know, speaking to Paddock Gunya,
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: we didn't invent at their headquarters and Ventura a couple
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: of months ago, um, you know where we invited the
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: public and had some uh wild boar for people to taste,
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: you know, they just gotten shot two or three days
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: before that. I think it was two or four picks
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: and drank beer and ate wild boar and listen to
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: some music and told some stories. And you know, what
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: a way to bring people together. And again, I'm not
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: gonna say that everybody walk out there singing the same
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: sheet of music. But we're able to have conversations over food,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: you know, over a little beer, and you know, find
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: common ground. And I think that's really what we need
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: to be striving for. And I think that people are
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: starving for that in this country right now. You know,
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of a lot of memes and a
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: lot of anger that's out there, and I think from
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out where to come together and I
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: I can't think of a better one than public moans
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: of public waters. Yeah, so, so a an event like that,
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: the Patagonia Headquarters event, or I know that you've been
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: connecting with the folks or at o I A so
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: the Outdoor Industry Association, which kind of represents that ARII crowd,
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: if we'll just labeled that for now. UM, what's been
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: like the feedback you've been getting from that community when
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: when we talk about these issues, like is there the
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: same positive vibes like they want to get together with
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: hunters and anglers or is there some resistance still? What's
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: the vibe you pick up there? You know, I think, um,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: I think there's some mutual interest. I would say that
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: for sure. I think that, you know, some of the
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: barriers are that you and I like to kill stuff,
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: and I think sometimes people have a hard time getting
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: over that and that you know that we're out there
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: as predators while they're out there as observers, and so
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: I think that's probably the biggest barrier to get over.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: I think food UM is helpful in that. UM. I
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: think that you know, as you know, a lot of
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: these folks are just starting to get engaged in conservation,
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: and so as the story is told to them about
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: kind of where we came from, why we have what
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: we have today, and kind of some of these stories
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: that you and I have talked about today already, they
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: start to have a better appreciation I think for hunters
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: and anglers, and you know, they're not just takers that
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: were big time givers back to these public lands and
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: public waters. And just conservation in general. I think once
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: they started they figure that out. I think those barriers
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: are broken down. But I'm not gonna say that it's
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: all like rosy um. But I think the first part
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: is like having those conversations. And you know, if we
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: can get in the door and have those conversations, um,
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: nine times out of time, I think we come out
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: the other side book, you know, in a better place. Um.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: You know, we're working with folks like New Belgium. You
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: know New Belgium you think about fat fire and kind
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: of that crowd that doesn't necessarily feel like a hunting
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: and fishing crowd. But you know, we were working with
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: them multiple events that their headquarters in Colorado of something
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: without or retailer UM show with them, and you know,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: what a what a great brand to kind of like
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: bring people together. And again, you know, I think that
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: you know, whoever invented beer, you know that was like
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: I think it's like monks in the Ireland or something.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: But but like beers are bringing people together ever since
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: it was it was you know, like created and so
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: I think you know those ideas, um, and doing that
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: I think is the way we get past some of
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: that stuff. But you know, I think I guess one
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: thing I would say that we as hunters, um also
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: need to be careful of is that is that, yes,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: we have this amazing, rich history of controvertion. You think
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: about the excise taxes during the nineteen twenties, you know
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: with Pitman Robertson, think about the duck stamp. I mean,
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: you know, many of the things that we've talked about today,
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: like all that's awesome, and let's just be careful about
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: beating on our chest too much and that, you know,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: and and and not acknowledging either other efforts now or
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: roles of other people played. And I think you know,
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: if we do that, I think it's a much more
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: welcoming conversation. If we sit there and be like you
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: got that, Johnny, come lately and we've done everything, and
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: listen to us like, that's not really a great way
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: to start a conversation, I don't think so. I think
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: I would caution that, you know, all of us as
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: ambassadors is to really, you don't be proud of our heritage,
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: but not to be boastful, like too over boastful about it,
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: if that makes sense, um. And And really I think
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: you know, we're starting these conversations about you know, potential
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: backpack tax, but it's kind of like an overarching theme.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: But that would be you know, hiking boots, backpacks, sleeping bags,
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: like other stuff, mountain bikes that gets used in the outdoors,
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: and really trying to figure out a similar system to
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: what we do with like firearms, ammunition and fishing, you know,
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: fishing and bowl equipment. And I think in that conversation,
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, think about the money that would generate and
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: and I think welcoming them to that kind of uh,
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: to that opportunity, or at least talking about that opportunity.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: I think it's a good thing. Could be you know,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: one of the biggest conservation wins in our life, and
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: we actually got that done. Yeah. Yeah, you make a
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: couple interesting points, especially he said that the chest meetings.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I've thought about that too, and it's to your point.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: We have this tremendous legacy of what hunters have done
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: as conservationists, all those things you listed, Um, but you know,
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: there's this business saying that if you're not growing, you're dying,
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: and I kind of feel like that applies to us
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: as hunters, Like we can't just point to our past
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: as um, affirmation of of our value. Like, yes, we
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: can be proud of our past, but we have to
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: be growing too. We have to continue to contribute to
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: the future. UM. So I think that's that's where it
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: becomes our our own us, right, that's our new responsibility.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: We can look back at what all these what our
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: forefathers done, and be inspired by that. But now like
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: it's on us now, we've got to take those next
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: steps and hopefully fifty years a hundred years from now,
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: our grandkids can look back and say, wow, look at
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: what these folks did and what they did because of
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: what they learn from folks in the thirties and the
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: twenties and um and all that stuff. Which, then to
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: your point with the backpack tax, this is one of
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: those things that it makes a lot of sense, right,
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: Why wouldn't folks in the across the board me too,
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: buying backpacks or hiking boots, and then the rest of
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: the recreation community community, why wouldn't we want to, um
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: have some excise tax on that, giving back to conservation,
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: public lands and whatnot. UM. But there's pushback on both
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: sides of the issue. UM, there's pushback from the recreation community.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: It seems like the manufacturers and stuff about prices and
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: stuff like that. But I'm more interested in the pushback
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: from our community, which is I've heard some people say no,
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: I don't want to backpack tax, because I like them
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: quoting here in general and generalities here that the line
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: being that, no, we don't want the backpack tax because
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: then we lose our influence. Right now, hunters have this
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: disproportioned influence because we're the ones that pay for the
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: lion's share of conservation because of the Pittman robertson that.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: But if all of a sudden, hikers and bird watchers
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: and all that stuff, all of the stuff, they can say, well,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: now we pay for some large majority of the two,
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: then they start changing how decisions are being made about
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: wildlife management, hunting, or whatever it might be. Um, is
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: that a real threat or what do you think about that?
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: How do we think about this? You know, I I
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: totally recognize that threat of kind of losing our cloud
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: and our kind of influence over decision making. Like, I
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: totally recognize that. But I would say to people, and
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: I've had this conversation many times, is that you know
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: hunting and fishing numbers are either going down or they're
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: being maintained. But we're really not, you know, we're not
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: We're not in a huge influx of people hunters and
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: anglers in this country. And even if we are maintaining
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: or even gaining a little bit, we're still becoming less
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: and less of a percentage of the overall population. And
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: so let's let's think about that. And so you know,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: I think fifty years from now and we're headed towards
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: this like this cliff, we're gonna go over the top
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: of this cliff. That is, you know, like we just
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: have lost all of our cloud because our numbers aren't
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: that big. Like that's not a place that I don't
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: want to think about. And so you know, well, we
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: maybe potentially lose some cloud if we add some folks
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: in potentially, um, And I think that, you know, that's
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: a real conversation. That's one of the reasons to have,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: you know, build these relationships early. I think with you know,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: these folks that that don't you know, catch and kill stuff. Um.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, and we're not it's not
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: like we're living in a land up plenty right now either,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: you know earlier in this conversation we'll talk about our
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: agencies being starved, um and you know, this is a
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: way to bring money in. And I think bring money
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: in with people who have, you know, again many of
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: the shared values that we do as hundreds and anglers
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: that you know, they like to that solitude and the
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: channels in the salts they can find out on our
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: public lands and waters. And so I'm I'm much more
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: of the game of let's work together with them, build relationships,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: um that and and add more money to the pot
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: and then have conversations about how things are managed. And
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: I think if we do that, I think we're in
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: a much better place. Unless, you know, instead of don't
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: necessarily like this analogy but sticking our heads in the
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: sand and not really looking at what's going on around us.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: That analogy that you said earlier about you know, uh,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: you're not changing, You're dying, you know, And I really
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: feel like we have to be doing that. And if
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: you know, if we don't, but I don't know if
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: the future looks so great for us. And I think
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: if you know, if we do um that I think
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: you know that our future looks much brighter. Yeah, So
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: so then what is your your view of the future?
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: Then where where do you see things headed? Based off
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: reading the tea leaves, seeing what's happened over the last
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: four years, there's been a lot going on. Um, WHOA,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: what do you predict we have coming down the line
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: in the next few years? How do you see stuff
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: around the election impacting things? Um? What should we be
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: thinking about around all that? You know? I think that
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: that there's a great question, and um, tea leaves or
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: crystal ball are always hard, but I think that you know,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: as public lands become there's been much more of an
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: awareness around them. I think it's gonna play in this
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: next election cycle, the election cycle in a big way. Um,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: maybe not necessarily at a presidential level, but I think
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: definitely at a kind of senate house level. I'm at
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: a local level. Is that, you know, and I look
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: at Montana in particular. You cannot be on the wrong
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: side of this issue right now and get elected for
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: a statewide office in Montana. And when I say against,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: you know, the issue is that if you are for
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: the sale or transfer of public lands or kind of
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: the systematic defunding or just kind of deterioration like you're
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: not gonna get elected to Montana. And I think that's
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: starting to permeate out other places. UM. And and so
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be you know, really important election
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: issue in UM. So. I think that's and I think
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: that's a good thing. UM. I think that that you know,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: you know, people care about healthcare, they care about the economy,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: but as public lands and public waters, I think get
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: elevated to a top tier issue. I think that's a
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: good thing for all the things that you and I
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: care about. There again, is always gonna be differences on
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: how we manage those places, but I think that that's
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: something for us to pay attention to. UM. I think
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: along those lines, I think there's something that we all
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: need to be paying attention to. Crystal Ball wise, is
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: that you know, this is hunting. I'm not. And I
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: just come out and say, I mean, hunting has been
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: dominated by white males for a long time in this country,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: and those demographics are changing in this country. And and
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: I think that we need to recognize that and be
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: well com mean and so that you know, organizations and
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: so that you know, media portray and like it looks
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: more like the country does. And I say that because
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: you know, as we want votes and and that's really
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: ultimately what's going to keep us um kind of on
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: the up and up for our conservation legacy and help
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: us pass it on to the next generation. I think
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: we really need to be conscious about, you know, looking
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: more like America and much more diversity within our ranks,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: within the hunting of the fishing ranks. I think that's starting, UM,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: But I think, you know, crystal ball wise like twenty
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: and twenty four, Like I just I just like our
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: community reflect more of what America looks like right now. Yeah,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: that's a great point, and that will play very much
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: into the whole issue we're just talking about, which is
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: hunter numbers declining so much and our influence declining with that. Well,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: if we aren't willing to welcome different kinds of people
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: into our community, there's no way that our numbers are
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: gonna grow. So it's uh, even though it's the right
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: thing to do, and it's also self serving as well,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: which is nice that they go in hand to hand. UM.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: One of the back to what you were just talking
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: about on the election side of things and how public
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: lands are becoming a bigger and bigger deal. One of
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: the things around this UM that always causes I think
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: people in our community some struggles internally, UM that I
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: just kind of want to get an idea of how
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: you think about this to kind of help us think
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: about it, because because I struggled with this too. Is Unfortunately,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: UM things are split down party lines in a lot
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: of cases, as we talked about a few minutes ago,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: and one of the big splits oftentimes not always, but
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: oftentimes is you're gonna get one candidate that is great
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: on public lands and taking care of the environment and
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: inhabitant whatnot, but not really good on hunter rights firearm rights.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: Then you might have the other candidate that's really good
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: at firearm rights and hunter right but not very good
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: on public lands and uh in conservation. How do you
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: personally like deal with that internally in your head or
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: how do you recommend us dealing with that, UM or
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: changing that? Because probably the best solutions just to change that,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: but I'm not sure if that's gonna happen in the
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: short term or not sure. UM. So just to be clear,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: uh back, and we're a five one C three, so
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: we can't you know, tell you who to vote for.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: Endorsed candidates anything like that, Like we can give you
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: information and so then people can figure that out for themselves,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: which we've done through candid questionnaires. But we're forbidding as
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: a five O one C three from you know, endorsing
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: or being part of that politcal process um, the election process.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: I would say, uh, how do I look at that myself?
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: I think I'm I'm on the second part of that,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: like where I think we need to force our elected
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: officials to be both good on guns, hunter rights and
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: public lands and conservations, and I don't think we should be.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think I get pretty frustrated when I
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: hear that dichotomy. I know that there's a lot of
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: truth and reality of that. There's also a lot of
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: great of that as well, And when we talk about
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: that in black and white ways, I think it feels
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: defeat us a little bit and that we're never gonna
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: be able to change it. But I've got plenty of examples,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: you know, on both sides of the aisle of people
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: that are more in that gray area, and I think
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: that we the people need demand that they're like that.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: And you know, I think, you know, I'm born in
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: Raidingsing in Montana. So I know Montana best, but you know,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: are elected officials like set A at a statewide level,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: they're both good on guns and hunter rights as well
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: as public fans and conservation, and there's nuances to each
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: side of that. But you know, I mean Democrats if
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: they're if they're if they're antisecond amendment in this state,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: they're not gonna win at a at a state level. Um,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: if you're a Republican and you um, you know, are
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: have draconian ideas about public lands and other should be managed,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: you're not going to win a statewide race. And so
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: I think that didn't happen because they woke up one
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: day and they're like, that's a good idea. That happened
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: by people on the ground demanding, what you know, those
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: things from them. And so to me, I think that
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: gives me hope for other parts of the country. And
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: you know, it goes back to the thing I said
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: earlier in this conversation is that you know, the squeaky
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: wheel gets the grease, and if you are demanding of
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: your politicians that you can't be one of the other,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: you have to beat both. I think we have a
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: much better chance, Um do I think that's gonna happen
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: in the short term, probably not. Um do I think
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: that there's always gonna be you know, there's always gonna
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: be people on one far side, you know, on the
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: left or on the far side on the right, that's
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: always gonna be there. But man, I gotta think that
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: the majority of this country is more in the middle,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: and we just have to demand it. And I think
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: we've a much better places we did. Yeah. Yeah, that
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: that's that's how I tend to to think and hope
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: and and look towards the future with with hope that
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: we can that we can do that. And I think,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: you know, that's forty seven the Dingle Johnson Act, I
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: think is just again saying it again, But I just
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: think it's it's a great example for us to point
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: to and saying, hey, we can make some of these changes,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: we can make a difference, and and all these things
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: we're talking about that we want to change in the future, like, hey,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: if that was possible, so are these things? So? Um absolutely,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: that's my that's my railing cry. At least, is there
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: is there anything else land before? Let's you go back
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: to the organized chaos of preparing for rendezvous. Is there
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: any other final message or final things I want to
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: stay on the phone with you, I think, I mean
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: my final thought and like you've talked about this a lot,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: but I just always like to kind of lead with
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: this is again, be proud of living here in America
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: and owning sixty million acres. You know that that idea,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: you know, the public land owner, that's not just a slogan,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: that's that's really a way of life, something unique that
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: we have here in America that no other country in
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: the world has. Um you know, Canada is is probably
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: the closest, and then you go like New Zealand, but
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: really there is no other place like America. Like this
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: is an ideal that you know that we should all
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: be proud of and know that with that ownership becomes responsibility.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: And you know, when you own a car, you know
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: you can't if you don't care and feed that car,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: it's eventually gonna you know, break down and seize up
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: way before it what have if you would have cared
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: and feed it. And so I think that, you know,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: let's be proud of what we have and then realize that,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: you know, we need to make sure that we pass
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: it on to the next generation. And that's by being engaged.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: And that's the thing I, you know, I'd like to
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: leave you with is really, you know, that hope and
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: kind of that I'm seeing all across the Midwest in
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: these states that only have you know, two percent public
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: land or close to it. That man I went there
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: wondering what I was gonna talk about, and I left
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: therapy and like, oh my goodness, these books are on fire.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: And they care about not only what's happening in their
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: own states and trying to you know, grow that public
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: and state it, but they know that they own the
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: Bob Marshall Wilderness. You know, that's in my backyard just
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: as much as I do. And I think that's something
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: for everybody to keep in mind. And I've I've been
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: up to Alaska a couple of times for meetings, but
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: never recreated up there, and maybe never will. I hope
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: I will. But like that belongs to me and you,
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: just like it does anybody else, you know, and I
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: might I might not ever get there, but boy, is
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: it a place that I dream about and having it
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: there and just knowing there's a place that's that big
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: in that wild is pretty awesome to me, and so
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: um for anybody listening to this man, you own sex
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: hundred forty acres, be prideful about that, understand where it
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: came from, and then do everything you can to protect
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: a point forward. Yeah, I think, uh yeah, I think
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: that's a great, a great thing to to send us
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: home on. And uh ma'am, I just want to thank
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: you Land for being such a great leader of this
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: movement there through b h A. But I think you've
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: also not just of that organization, but but really you've
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: done a great job of standing up and and being
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: a a figurehead for this larger movement and really railing
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: hunters and anglers and putting giving a hand out and
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: not giving hand out, but reaching a hand out to
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: other folks and saying, hey, let's all work together. You've
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: you've led by example on that and personally that's been
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: encouraging to see and I think for a lot of
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: the folks too. So uh so, thanks for what you're doing.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: And I'm really glad that you're gonna be helping us
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: all move forward in the future too. Mark, very kind
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: and humbling words. I appreciate that. I think throw back,
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: I mean to you that you know, with this podcast,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: you have a gigantic bully pulpit, as you know, it's
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: what Roset used to call like the presidency, right Like,
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: he's got this awesome megaphone that he gets to use.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: And I think what you and everybody I'm so over
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: at Mediator is doing like you guys have a gigantic
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: bully pulpit right now. And I know I'm super spoke
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: to be kind of in that arena with you alls,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: um and and and really, you know, the reason that
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: I talked about this kind of public Land's revolution is
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: really because folks like you are spreading that message. So um,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: the thank you goes right back to you. We've got
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of stuff to do together, Mark, and at
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: some point we'll be celebrating together, um and I look
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: forward to those days. But please keep up a good
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: work as well. On your end. Sounds great, Land, Good
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: luck with the rendezvous. Yeah, it's it's gonna be one
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: heck of a party. I wish I was gonna be
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: there next year. I will be next year, I will
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: be all right. Thanks Land, and that, my friends, is
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: the end of this episode. Just want to give another
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: big thanks to Land. Tawny and if you're interested in
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: learning more about land and what b h A is
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: up to, you can visit back Country Hunters dot org
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: and become a member too if you're not already highly recommended.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: I'm a member. I'm also on the board for a
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: Michigan chapter. It's just a really, really great group of
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: folks to work with in an issue that, as far
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: as I'm concerned, it's just about second to none. So
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: with all that said, thank you for tuning in. Thanks
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: for being the kind of folks, the kind of guys
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: and girls that stand up for these kinds of things,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: whether it be public lands or the future of our
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: deer herds or private land, conservation, clean air, clean water,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: the right to hunting fish. I mean, all these things
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: are around because folks in the pasta for him and
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: I'm confident that folks like you are the ones who
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: are gonna continue doing that in the future. And I'm
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: just a damn proud person here today knowing that you're
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: a part of this Wired Hunt community. So thank you.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: Have a great weekend, and stay wired to hunt.