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The Blueprint for Elite Team Culture · A Quick Timeout

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[music]
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SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to A Quick Timeout Podcast.
0:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Coach Tony Miller, and I'm excited to have back on the show today, J.P. Nurbin.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: If you followed his work or listened to our past conversation,
0:15
SPEAKER_01: you know that J.P.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: is a fantastic resource for helping coaches develop high-performing teams
0:20
SPEAKER_01: and various leadership dynamics.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: This time,
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SPEAKER_01: he's joining us to talk about his new book,
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SPEAKER_01: The Culture Captain, Four-Level Framework for Athletes.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: J.P., it's great to have you back on the show.
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SPEAKER_00: Hey, it's awesome to be back, Tony.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: Appreciate you as always.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: And as I was sharing with you off air, like,
0:36
SPEAKER_00: you know,
0:37
SPEAKER_00: heard you were pumping up one of my previous books as well
0:39
SPEAKER_00: when you were out speaking and traveling the country, talking the team.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: So always appreciate that as well, too, brother.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I mention it at least once every month to somebody or to some group.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: And a couple of weeks ago,
0:51
SPEAKER_01: I was doing a little bit of a culture talk with somebody and referencing it.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: And it's done a whole lot for how I think about things.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: We'll probably touch on some of those things today.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: I do want to talk primarily about the book that you have coming out.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: Can you give a quick book jacket version of it Yeah,
1:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean, my previous books have been for coaches.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: This one is for athletes.
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SPEAKER_00: It is a framework for athletes that I kind of unearth in my work, working with teams.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: Primarily, I've coached coaches the last decade.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: And then in some of that work,
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SPEAKER_00: I've also coached their leadership groups and coached their athletes on leadership.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: And so in that work, I'm a systems guy.
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SPEAKER_00: I'm all about how do we simplify this while also making it Adaptable
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SPEAKER_00: to every context or individual.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: And so this is the framework that I've been using with athletes with a lot
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SPEAKER_00: of success over the last three years
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SPEAKER_00: from USA women's Olympic field hockey team heading to the Paris Olympics all the way
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SPEAKER_00: across high school and collegiate teams,
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SPEAKER_00: professional,
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SPEAKER_00: future Hall of Famer used this framework and it's just been hugely impactful.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: So put it into a book that's half fable, half nonfiction.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: Coaches all want player-led teams.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: It actually happening, I found very rarely ends up happening.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: They usually end up doing at least a majority of the leading, if not all of the leading.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: What convinced you that this was the framework for being the link that really fixed all of that?
2:27
SPEAKER_00: Well, player-led team is aspirational.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: Right.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: I think any of us at the end of the day,
2:32
SPEAKER_00: we hear about the all blacks and having this player led practices on the Friday
2:35
SPEAKER_00: before the big match and player led talks.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: Right.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: It's very where we want to go.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: I think at the end of the day we want,
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SPEAKER_00: you know, however, how we get there depends on where we currently are.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: This framework,
2:47
SPEAKER_00: you know,
2:47
SPEAKER_00: I laid it on because I hear a lot of things in the leadership space
2:51
SPEAKER_00: that we're telling athletes, you know, you got to lead by example.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: We hear a lot of You've got to be willing to call out your teammates and challenge them.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: So you hear those are probably two big themes.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: Coach is like, I want guys that will call them out.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: I want guys that can lead by example.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: And those are all components of it.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: However,
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SPEAKER_00: we need a framework that helps athletes to really,
3:13
SPEAKER_00: first off,
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SPEAKER_00: understand where they're at in their leadership journey and to also who they are.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: That's where level one is about knowing yourself.
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SPEAKER_00: Who am I?
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SPEAKER_00: What's most important to me, my values?
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SPEAKER_00: And then it's about their ability to lead themselves so that they can,
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SPEAKER_00: others are willing to follow them.
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SPEAKER_00: And then level three is leading individuals, leading others, right, within the team.
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SPEAKER_00: Everyone is capable of levels one through three.
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SPEAKER_00: Level four is leading the team, and that's oftentimes a captain or a leadership group.
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SPEAKER_00: So I needed a framework that could meet athletes wherever they're at on the journey
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SPEAKER_00: because that is very, Varied amongst, in any team, even a college team, right?
3:48
SPEAKER_00: Like it doesn't mean,
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SPEAKER_00: oh, now they're at the college level, they're further along on this journey.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: That's just not true.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: Even as I've worked with players,
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SPEAKER_01: it's interesting to see them come in and see guys at different levels.
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SPEAKER_01: You have aspirations for what you want from them,
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SPEAKER_01: but even the individual paths can be different.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: I do want to ask you about the different levels because a follow-up
4:10
SPEAKER_01: to what I just said,
4:12
SPEAKER_01: it really does start with them knowing themselves and they often don't really have
4:16
SPEAKER_01: a true self-identity, I think.
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SPEAKER_01: Especially, you know, for me with them.
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SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're teenagers and they're still trying to figure out who they are,
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SPEAKER_01: gaining that self-awareness,
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SPEAKER_01: understanding what a team needs from them and how they can impact the team.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: If a kid is able to do that, like that is an outlier.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: What are some things that you suggest to help them with that?
4:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I mean,
4:40
SPEAKER_00: very few athletes that we coach will ever have this strong sense of self that
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SPEAKER_00: the Steph Curry and the Tim Duncans of the world, right?
4:46
SPEAKER_00: You hear stories about Popovich,
4:48
SPEAKER_00: you know,
4:48
SPEAKER_00: taken to him and he has this strong sense of self as he enters the NBA at 22, right?
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SPEAKER_00: Curry, by all accounts, strong idea of who he is.
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SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean it hasn't evolved over time,
5:00
SPEAKER_00: but more so athletes are probably on On the other side of the spectrum,
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SPEAKER_00: even like the Tom Brady's,
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SPEAKER_00: it took a long time for him to really understand what was important to him
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SPEAKER_00: and what he valued.
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SPEAKER_00: He was just pursuing achievement and success and doing that very well,
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SPEAKER_00: but not experiencing that fulfillment on the journey.
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SPEAKER_00: So one of the best ways to do this is through an inquiry approach.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: And it is not to say, hey, this is what you should value or this is what's most important.
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SPEAKER_00: It is actually to ask questions of our athletes.
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SPEAKER_00: And the book presents that,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: the fable story of an athlete with an executive coach that's working
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SPEAKER_00: a leadership coach that's working with this athlete over four seasons,
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SPEAKER_00: as well as the nonfiction stuff of the stories of athletes that have done this work.
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SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we're forced into it by a crisis,
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SPEAKER_00: an injury,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: we get to the top of the mountain,
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SPEAKER_00: we realize this, you know, like Tom Brady, there's got to be more than this, right?
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SPEAKER_00: This isn't very fulfilling.
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SPEAKER_00: Winning all the time.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: Or sometimes we are encouraged and prompted.
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SPEAKER_00: We have people that ask those questions.
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SPEAKER_00: That's what we're trying to do.
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SPEAKER_00: And so the best way to do that is to actually sit down and ask your athlete questions.
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SPEAKER_00: And I'll give a coach a real practical one,
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SPEAKER_00: very one that everyone could do today with their athletes.
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SPEAKER_00: You could do it with your whole team.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: You could do it individually.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: If you did it in a team setting,
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SPEAKER_00: if I say in a basketball team of 15 players,
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SPEAKER_00: I'd break them into five groups of three.
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SPEAKER_00: And I would say, I want you to ask each individual this question.
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SPEAKER_00: What is most important to you about being a part of this team or playing basketball?
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SPEAKER_00: What is most important to you?
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SPEAKER_00: And then whatever answer they give you, you're going to ask that question again.
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SPEAKER_00: Well, what's most important about that?
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SPEAKER_00: And then go deep.
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SPEAKER_00: What's most important about that?
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SPEAKER_00: Ask that three times.
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SPEAKER_00: What you get in that is you get them to start to not just give you
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SPEAKER_00: that textbook answer, but they have to start looking inside.
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SPEAKER_00: Really look inside their experiences and what's important and what they value.
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SPEAKER_00: And that starts to get them to have insights into themselves, not just you learning about them.
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SPEAKER_01: The level two part,
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SPEAKER_01: leading yourself,
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SPEAKER_01: I have found is rather difficult,
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SPEAKER_01: especially for kids that don't necessarily have the self-discipline that they need,
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SPEAKER_01: which is very common among college students.
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SPEAKER_01: How do you teach them to develop that self-discipline before they ever become
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SPEAKER_01: the captain or before they ever become any kind of official leadership role
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SPEAKER_01: for your team?
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SPEAKER_00: Awareness leads to ownership.
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SPEAKER_00: Without awareness that they have an actual need to change and things,
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SPEAKER_00: then they will have,
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SPEAKER_00: they'll never take ownership, they'll never have the motivation to change.
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SPEAKER_00: So by driving awareness,
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SPEAKER_00: by asking questions to help them to get understand of, okay,
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SPEAKER_00: what are some of the things that you might be falling short of as far
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SPEAKER_00: as what you're achieving,
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SPEAKER_00: what you're experiencing, and Why is that really unpacking?
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SPEAKER_00: What are the things getting away of that?
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SPEAKER_00: And so by helping them to create awareness around how life is working for them
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SPEAKER_00: and how life is working for others around them and their impact on others and
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SPEAKER_00: the team, you start to then see a gap.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: And there's a gap that exists for everyone, right?
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SPEAKER_00: Like even like,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: I think about just my morning journal routine,
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SPEAKER_00: like how often I just go, geez,
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SPEAKER_00: I didn't have the impact that I wanted to have even on my family yesterday here.
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SPEAKER_00: You know, I was too short, impatient.
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SPEAKER_00: You know, these are things that we're constantly working on.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: And so we're constantly stepping I've been back and having awareness and
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SPEAKER_00: then saying, okay, what are some new options?
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SPEAKER_00: What are some new choices that I can make when it comes
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SPEAKER_00: to how I take responsibility,
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SPEAKER_00: how I show up authentically, how I'm selfless, not selfish?
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SPEAKER_00: How do I respond to adversity?
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SPEAKER_00: All these types of things.
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SPEAKER_00: How do I compete?
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SPEAKER_00: What does my effort look like?
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SPEAKER_00: You talk about discipline.
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SPEAKER_00: Am I falling into bad habits?
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SPEAKER_00: Am I doing the things that I say that are easy to do and easy not to do?
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SPEAKER_00: These are the types of things, but without awareness, we won't help them to take ownership.
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SPEAKER_00: Coming in and telling them, hey,
8:48
SPEAKER_00: you got to do a better job,
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SPEAKER_00: lean yourself, you're falling short, and X, Y, Z, it tends to not work very well.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: What have you found to be ways to help them come to that awareness?
8:57
SPEAKER_00: This is the beautiful thing.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: What I love about knowing yourself,
9:00
SPEAKER_00: while you do a little bit of that work,
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SPEAKER_00: when you come up with values or some sort of purpose,
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SPEAKER_00: clarity for that athlete,
9:07
SPEAKER_00: Is to say, okay, what are times when you're not walking in your purpose?
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SPEAKER_00: What are times when you're not living according to the values?
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SPEAKER_00: You're not showing up.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: You're not the teammate and the player that you want to be.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: So they have awareness of, okay, well, these are some areas.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, those practices in the summer.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: These moments in a game where I don't get the call goes my way or when I get benched
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SPEAKER_00: or when the coach challenges me.
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SPEAKER_00: These are areas where I'm not who I want to be.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: Then it's going, okay, explore what's the trigger in that?
9:36
SPEAKER_00: What is the trigger in that?
9:37
SPEAKER_00: And then how do you want to operate within that?
9:39
SPEAKER_00: So oftentimes we want to work on this area with the athlete.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: But by then getting them to say, these are where areas where I'm falling short.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: This is where I go the bull line.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: What are some new ways that I can get above the line here?
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SPEAKER_00: How can my coach help me?
9:55
SPEAKER_00: How can my teammates help me?
9:57
SPEAKER_00: But how do I also help myself in those moments to get above the line,
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SPEAKER_00: to be in my values,
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SPEAKER_00: to be in my purpose, to be the type of teammate and athlete that I want to be?
10:05
SPEAKER_00: So by identifying where we're falling short,
10:08
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10:09
SPEAKER_00: we can then start to put in new
10:13
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11:14
SPEAKER_01: A lot of the friction comes the next stage where they're attempting to lead others.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: How do you help players hold others accountable without the others feeling
11:27
SPEAKER_01: that they're just bossy or trying to create conflict?
11:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean,
11:32
SPEAKER_00: you're seeing more and more,
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SPEAKER_00: leaders tend to be more relational or they tend to be more of that very direct,
11:37
SPEAKER_00: but you're seeing more and more with this generation,
11:40
SPEAKER_00: athletes value the opinion of their peers more than ever, more than the coach.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: That wasn't the case statistically from a research standpoint 20 to 30 years ago, right?
11:51
SPEAKER_00: It's becoming more and more a value opinion value.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: So what you're seeing is that athletes are more quick to lean in on Care
11:58
SPEAKER_00: and connection because it helps to secure them within the group.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: Those are easier behaviors to lean into.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: We talk a lot about that lean on.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: You have to build a relationship, right?
12:06
SPEAKER_00: To be able to call someone up, you have to build a relationship with them first.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: And so from that relationship, then now you can call them up.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: Now you can extend a challenge.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: What's really important there is to A,
12:19
SPEAKER_00: identify, get awareness to what are the barriers for them to challenge, right?
12:24
SPEAKER_00: Before we give tools,
12:25
SPEAKER_00: before I give them, okay, here's a way you can challenge and call a teammate better.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: It's actually giving them to explore what's the scariest part for you about having
12:34
SPEAKER_00: to tell a teammate that they're below the line with their behavior.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: You know,
12:38
SPEAKER_00: whatever it be,
12:39
SPEAKER_00: whether it's showing up late or their attitude or effort,
12:41
SPEAKER_00: like what's the scariest part about that for you?
12:43
SPEAKER_00: And then go back to, Well, what's the scariest part about that?
12:46
SPEAKER_00: And what's the scariest part about it?
12:47
SPEAKER_00: Like, get them to really play around with and explore.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: Use that purely on your layer question.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: Then they'll have an idea around the mindset
12:54
SPEAKER_00: because our thinking drives our behaviors, which then drives our results.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times we just want to focus on the behavioral change,
13:00
SPEAKER_00: but we don't have going back to the operating system upon which they're operating.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: So we have to actually understand the operating system.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: And there obviously are some We're not going to change anyway so why bother.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: Or we want to be liked as coaches as well.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: So once they've uncovered the beliefs that drive the behaviors,
13:33
SPEAKER_00: then we can start to give some tools.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: And one of the biggest ones I like to give is the curious open challenge, right?
13:40
SPEAKER_00: And this curious open challenge, it does three things.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: You share your intent.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: You say, hey, Tony,
13:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm giving this feedback just because I care so much for this team and you're
13:48
SPEAKER_00: so important to the team.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: Step two is to share what you've observed.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: Share your assessment.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: Yesterday in practice, Tony,
13:58
SPEAKER_00: I saw you talking bad about some of their teammates on the team,
14:03
SPEAKER_00: or I saw you just not sprinting up and down the court, taking plays off.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Then with that observation, share your assessment.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: My assessment of that is, And you're just not coming prepared.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: You're not coming in there.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: You're not at all about the team.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: I could be wrong.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: This is step three.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: I could be wrong.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: What's your take on that?
14:19
SPEAKER_00: So just share your intention,
14:21
SPEAKER_00: share your assessment,
14:22
SPEAKER_00: your observations and assessment,
14:23
SPEAKER_00: and then ask a really open question for their perspective on it.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: Really easy way to call people up.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: But giving someone that tool without actually having them done the work of unpacking
14:33
SPEAKER_00: the belief system, they'll never have the courage to do the right thing.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: Once they have that consistency and leading themselves and doing the things
14:43
SPEAKER_01: that you just said,
14:44
SPEAKER_01: the ones who are actually able to make an impact, taking it then a step further.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: The ones that actually help you as the coach shape the culture of the team and move it forward.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: What's the thing that's going to move them to that last stage?
15:00
SPEAKER_00: There has to be a level of social influence.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: You can't take the perfect athlete as far as they show up,
15:07
SPEAKER_00: work hard,
15:08
SPEAKER_00: have the great attitude,
15:09
SPEAKER_00: all that,
15:10
SPEAKER_00: if they don't actually have social influence and get them to really drive
15:14
SPEAKER_00: the culture of the team.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: And so you have to, this is where I've debated with a lot of coaches.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: I want this,
15:21
SPEAKER_00: the team wants this person in the leadership group,
15:23
SPEAKER_00: but I don't think they're a leader.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, well, the team looks to them.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: So you can either bring them in and develop them and work with them, or you can get rid of them.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't develop them,
15:32
SPEAKER_00: you don't work with them, they're going to tear your culture apart.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: So you need someone with social influence, right?
15:37
SPEAKER_00: And then secondly, they don't have to be perfect at levels one, two, three.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: They don't have to be perfect at that.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: But they can start to take initiative where you can.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: And this is where a lot of coaches in the past have read The Culture System,
15:49
SPEAKER_00: my previous book that I know you're a fan of.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: And there's all these system approach.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: But it feels heavy for a coach to feel like, I've got to drive the leadership group.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: I've got to drive the onboarding program.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: I've got to do this.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: We've got to do team reviews and how we discuss and debate things and holding it accountable.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, let's bring them into the system.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: So it's whatever your culture system is,
16:10
SPEAKER_00: it's saying, hey, How can you help drive the non-negotiables?
16:14
SPEAKER_00: How can you help onboard new players?
16:16
SPEAKER_00: And it's bringing them into it.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: So they have a bit of social influence within the group, social power within the group.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: And then it's bringing them into your culture system and saying,
16:25
SPEAKER_00: hey, you're going to help me run this.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: You're going to help me drive this flywheel.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: Just a little feedback, but then also maybe I'm just an outlier.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: You said the coaches that feel like this is a really big job.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: I felt all that at the start.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: However,
16:41
SPEAKER_01: being now a couple of years into it,
16:43
SPEAKER_01: those that feel like, oh man, I have to do all this.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: I think you feel like you're starting from a clean slate every single year.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: But when you actually do develop a system, you're not starting from ground zero.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: If your system is well put together and you follow the things that you talked about
17:00
SPEAKER_01: in the culture system,
17:02
SPEAKER_01: it's something that then becomes easier because hopefully you've got players in
17:06
SPEAKER_01: the locker room.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: Even if it's at the college level, I'm bringing in seven new guys this year.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: But I do feel like the four or the five that I have that have been a part of things
17:15
SPEAKER_01: for several years now, they're going to be able to help me with that.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: It's not going to be as hard.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: As it sounds.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: Yes, 100%.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: And what you talked on there,
17:24
SPEAKER_00: like think about from a basketball standpoint,
17:26
SPEAKER_00: the first time you try to implement and teach a new system.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes, I mean, not even just you've changed systems.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: Like the first time you really sat down and like, oh,
17:35
SPEAKER_00: like I'm not just going to teach a bunch of set plays or the things,
17:38
SPEAKER_00: you know, things that my coach did with us, right?
17:40
SPEAKER_00: Like the first time you're running a system and it's on you in a basketball sense,
17:44
SPEAKER_00: that's overwhelming.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: And you don't always explain things right.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: And you get midway through the year and you realize you screwed that up.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: Like, Think about that from a basketball X's and O's standpoint.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: It's very similar with culture, right?
17:55
SPEAKER_00: The first year you do it, it's going to be clunky.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: It's going to feel awkward.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: It's going to feel heavy.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: But like you, to your point, it becomes repeatable.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: And then you start to refine year after year,
18:07
SPEAKER_00: unless you do what a lot of coaches do,
18:08
SPEAKER_00: which is you change your system every year, right?
18:11
SPEAKER_00: Which is the same from a culture standpoint.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: You know,
18:13
SPEAKER_00: we're going with this approach,
18:14
SPEAKER_00: then we're going to go, well, we're going to read this book.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: And then that's going to be our way of culture.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: We're going to do this way to do a team standards.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: Just little tweaks, right?
18:23
SPEAKER_00: Year to year.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: And I also say too, Tony,
18:25
SPEAKER_00: from a cultural standpoint,
18:26
SPEAKER_00: every coach already is doing a few things within their system.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: Everyone's already doing it.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: And I don't think of culture systems as like,
18:34
SPEAKER_00: you know,
18:35
SPEAKER_00: building a house where you level everything and you got to start with
18:37
SPEAKER_00: a strong foundation, you got to build it from there.
18:39
SPEAKER_00: I think it more like cultivating a garden.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: It's like going in there or what are we doing well here culturally?
18:47
SPEAKER_00: Let's continue to nourish that,
18:49
SPEAKER_00: but also we got to weed out some of the bad here and then we maybe need
18:51
SPEAKER_00: to plant some new things in there.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: When you have that system in place and then when you follow the steps,
18:57
SPEAKER_01: things that you talked about,
18:59
SPEAKER_01: those players can really become ambassadors for you, right?
19:03
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: And they start to carry the culture with you.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: That's what I love about if you're able to have retention in your program and bring
19:12
SPEAKER_00: And that's why you want to start the leadership development.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I present a framework here that is like,
19:18
SPEAKER_00: some might say, well,
19:19
SPEAKER_00: that's a lot,
19:19
SPEAKER_00: you know, like four levels, you know, there's six different things in each level.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, yeah,
19:23
SPEAKER_00: but like if a guy is in your program,
19:26
SPEAKER_00: you know, it's hard starting it
19:27
SPEAKER_01: over new every single year too, isn't it?
19:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: So it's like,
19:31
SPEAKER_00: let's build and build and build and work,
19:33
SPEAKER_00: you know, and it doesn't have to always be linear.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: It's like, Hey, where can we get some early wins?
19:37
SPEAKER_00: Where are some pain points that we can address?
19:39
SPEAKER_01: That was one thing that I felt like it was something that became a vision
19:45
SPEAKER_01: for everybody and it really added to stability and it even helped me recruit
19:51
SPEAKER_01: and it helped the other players communicate what we were about and there was
19:57
SPEAKER_01: a one voice that was going forward about who we were when these core values
20:03
SPEAKER_01: and everything was set in place.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: Well, when you think about it, I mean,
20:06
SPEAKER_00: look at some of the just amazing leaders in a basketball standpoint
20:10
SPEAKER_00: that I've mentioned,
20:11
SPEAKER_00: you know, the Steph Currys, the Tim Duncans of the world in basketball.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: They have that leader that then helps to bring and recreate that culture for
20:20
SPEAKER_00: a guy like a Popovich or a Kurt, right?
20:22
SPEAKER_00: And like those guys are like, yeah, you know, like, I mean, Greg Popovich.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: Every time he has a glass of wine, he toasts to Tim Duncan.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: He's like,
20:29
SPEAKER_00: to Tim Duncan,
20:30
SPEAKER_00: because he's like, I wouldn't be drinking this glass of wine if it wasn't for him.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: Life would not be what it is without this great leader.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: So I think that one of the big challenges if you're trying to set a culture is
20:42
SPEAKER_00: who is one of those, you can build leadership groups, captains, councils.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm a big fan of that.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: It's something I talk a lot about.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: But anitators will be one or two leaders within most teams,
20:50
SPEAKER_00: especially the basketball setting,
20:51
SPEAKER_00: that are going to drive the culture of your program.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: And it is making sure that you have one or two individuals there that you're trying
20:59
SPEAKER_00: to constantly develop to lead that, to carry it and pass on the culture.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: And like to your point there,
21:06
SPEAKER_00: then you can bring back alumni,
21:07
SPEAKER_00: you can leverage those to continue to pass the torch.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: In a day where you mentioned the word retention,
21:14
SPEAKER_01: where that is a really big thing in college sports
21:18
SPEAKER_01: and especially college basketball, I think this is an absolute necessary.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: So if a coach is wanting to implement this framework tomorrow,
21:27
SPEAKER_01: aside from buying the book,
21:29
SPEAKER_01: what's like a low hanging fruit practice that they can use in the next team meeting
21:35
SPEAKER_01: that they have or the next captain's counselor one on one meeting
21:38
SPEAKER_01: that they're having with players?
21:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, we talked about all four of these levels here.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: So I think in each of those,
21:44
SPEAKER_00: you know,
21:44
SPEAKER_00: just helping them to identify what's most important or what they hope to experience
21:49
SPEAKER_00: or what are some,
21:50
SPEAKER_00: you know,
21:50
SPEAKER_00: things that they really value,
21:52
SPEAKER_00: spending time with them on that,
21:54
SPEAKER_00: then moving into this place of where,
21:56
SPEAKER_00: you know,
21:57
SPEAKER_00: what responsibility do you have to that experience that we have as a team or
22:01
SPEAKER_00: where are you falling short and not walking in your purpose,
22:04
SPEAKER_00: your values, getting them to just self-reflect.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: Self-assess and then to start to take ownership for that where you can come along
22:13
SPEAKER_00: and support that and then come into the relational aspect and start to get them
22:18
SPEAKER_00: to really reflect on how they can support and build each other up.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: I would say the reality is in most basketball teams,
22:26
SPEAKER_00: you're not going to ever get to a place where 15 people are calling each other up
22:29
SPEAKER_00: and willing to give each other hard feedback.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: So you're going to have to then start to pinpoint your leadership group members
22:37
SPEAKER_00: and start to develop that capacity to challenge and then also level four lead.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: So I would say...
22:43
SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of leadership development that happens with the whole team.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: Everyone's a leader and it comes down to knowing yourself and leading yourself
22:49
SPEAKER_00: and starting to be looking after and encouraging and supporting each other.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: But then you do need to identify a group as quickly as possible that you can start
22:58
SPEAKER_00: to really take into that upper level three, level four leadership.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: That's the coach who is interested in this or who is bought into this, I should say.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: What's one of the biggest pushbacks that you hear from coaches who maybe are
23:11
SPEAKER_01: a little either not skeptical,
23:14
SPEAKER_01: but maybe they feel like they were going to lose a little bit of control with this
23:19
SPEAKER_01: or they feel like,
23:20
SPEAKER_01: yeah, but I just don't have the players or don't have the fill in the blank.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think we've all had Done leadership programs, leadership curriculums.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: Let's read this book with our leadership group.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: And it's just kind of, you know, we've tried that.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: We've tried the course, you know, we've tried those things and we haven't had much success.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: And that's because I think so often, to their point, it is very, very prescriptive.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: It's more, this is how to do it.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: So you get that pushback.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: And yet what I'm really proposing here is It's something that I've coached
23:55
SPEAKER_00: over 100 athletes on in group settings or in individual one-on-one settings.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: And that is really the beautiful thing about this is that you're not going
24:05
SPEAKER_00: to just enhance their leadership.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: You will enhance their performance through this coaching because they will play from
24:11
SPEAKER_00: a place of more security and a stronger sense of self.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: They'll play with more joy, right?
24:16
SPEAKER_00: So this isn't just leadership development.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: That's going to help them as a leader.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: It's going to help them in their performance.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: It's also going to help them to find joy in the journey, which will then feed your team culture.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: But this has to come with a place of a coaching.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: You're coming in there to coach them on that, not to teach them about leadership.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: Let me let you out on this.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: Where can coaches get the book?
24:39
SPEAKER_01: And if they haven't already, where can they connect with you?
24:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can shoot me an email at jp at tocculture.com.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: Check out our website, tocculture.com for our articles.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: Subscribe to our newsletter there as well.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: We've got an online community for coaches and with the course on The Culture Captain.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: And the book you can get at Amazon.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure when this will drop,
25:02
SPEAKER_00: but it's supposed to be on Audible very, very soon as well too.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: So yeah,
25:05
SPEAKER_00: that's just The Culture Captain into Amazon or you can go to theculturecaptain.net
25:10
SPEAKER_00: and we have a field guide.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: So if you were to Read the book and you want to implement these ideas
25:14
SPEAKER_00: with your team,
25:14
SPEAKER_00: whether they have read the book or not, the Fuel Guide will show you how to do that.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: It's a PDF document there.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: And we've got an online course as well that helps you to implement these ideas
25:24
SPEAKER_00: with your team, whether they've read the book or not.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: I will try to put as many of those links down below in the description so
25:30
SPEAKER_01: that coaches can find it.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: JP, thanks for doing this.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: This was fantastic.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: Hey, Tony, appreciate it as always.