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Shares and Investments and Bonds! Oh My! · Cash Lads

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Cash Labs.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Paul Malloy from BoxcoverTax.aue, and this is Marcus Doyle from Clear Financial.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're here to take the mystery out of money and finance with some history, some stories, and plenty of humor too.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Hi there, Marcus.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: How are you getting on today?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm good, yeah.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Good, good, good.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Today, uh, folks, we're going to talk about I suppose the kinds of investments there are out there.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the things that you really need to watch out for.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose over overriding all of that is just this idea of diversification.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that if you have all your edits in one basket and you lose the basket, you lose it all.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: So the first one I think most people would understand it, but we might just touch on it still, it's its main components is like shares on a stock exchange, public publicly traded shares, shares that you can buy and sell in the same day, in the same hour, you know.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um Microsoft, Amazon, uh, Meta, you know, Google, these are the ones we've been hearing so much about.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Nvidia is a is a is a new one, but they're making all the best AI chips.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: So um, how do you make money on on these investments?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: And essentially there's two ways, isn't there?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can be paid a dividend.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the company can can issue a dividend.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: I remember Microsoft when Microsoft was literally the biggest the most important company in the world.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um all our desktops were uh Microsoft software, yeah.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: They were everywhere, and they didn't pay dividends until quite late in their in their cycle because companies might decide to instead of giving money out to investors in in the form of dividend, they'll reinvest it the money and try to make the company worth more in the longer term.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then I suppose the other one is it's capital gains, you know, whereby you buy a sh a stock for$100 and it goes up to$120.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Gain of$20 on on each share.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I mean the the the stock exchange, you probably know this better than than I mark because you're probably looking at it closer than I am, but it over time it has just risen and risen, hasn't it?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, like I don't know.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: We we've talked we always get this analysis, like even through all the 2008 crashes, the big crashes back in the 30s, if you invest for 20 years, you will make money.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: You'll the highs and lows balance out, and there's others, it's the one sector where there is as long as you invest in it long term, you will make money on it.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And the the thing about is, you know, you'll you you you can lose it all if you invest in one company.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Even if you were like if you were to invest in in in Volkswagen, for example, just before the uh the admissions crisis uh scandal came out, whereby they'd they'd be caught fiddling with the admissions rather than doing a recall when they found a mistake.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that took down Volkswagen for years, took down a lot of companies in Germany as well.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Especially because the Germans are always so squeaky clean.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: So squeaky clean.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: And people suddenly went, God almighty, if Volkswagen are doing this, what's going on in Germany?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you could have had um and I'm sure there were uh funds in in Germany that had a combination of German shares and and and German bonds.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and th those were funds that would have lost a lot of money because they were so focused on one country.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, the there used to be a saying in Ireland, you know, it could happen to a bishop.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and then it did, yeah.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then it did happen to a bishop.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: So so so you you can be you can be you can be are we talking about the baby?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, th yeah, yeah, gosh, well my big scandal.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: What was his name again?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Bishop Casey wasn't it.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Bishop Casey, yeah.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: So Bishop Casey is like the equivalent of Germany, you know, like that this person who was so well respected in the country wasn't just a bishop, he was just very, very active as well.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: But the the point we're making is one investment, you can lose it all.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, especially because Germany is the best economy in Europe, people would have invested in the world.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Germany Germany is the best economy in Europe, it's it's it's its companies um have um we were talking about TSMC in a previous episode in Taiwan, you know, unbelievable exports, and um its companies do do make a lot of money.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: So um that's shares, that's shares.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Bonds.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Now people mightn't be as familiar with with with bonds, and we'll just take a moment to to explain.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: They're not as flashy as shares, it's not as flashy as shares, they're not, they're not.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but they're often seen as a kind of a more safe bet.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: So so every year, let's just take Germany, because we've just been talking about Germany.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: The German government needs money every year to to close a gap in its finances or money it's borrowed previously that that's come due for repayment, you know.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: So if I owe money to Marcus, then that loan is coming through, then I borrow from Erica and pay you off.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Now I don't owe you any money, but now I owe Erica.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: So every country in the world does this kind of refinancing.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And the refinancing is is yours is due tomorrow, Paul.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: See, but I get on to Erica about that money.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Take my thumbs.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know why I'm laughing.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: This is quite quite sinister.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, um, so the the the government basically issues a bond, which is basically saying you're lending us money.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: So when governments issue bonds, when you hear the word bond, it's just a loan.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Bonds are loans, loans made by government governments and they pay a certain rate of interest, usually not very high, but it depends on the country.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's for a time like of a year, five years, ten years, twenty years.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Some American, you know, bonds or 30-year bonds.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: So um, like you said, Marcus, not exactly that exciting because your your your return is capped.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: You pay a fixed rate of interest of now.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: If it's Japan, it's it could be could be as low as 1%, Germany, 2.5%, 3%.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh America's increased because America is no longer triple A, the American government is no longer rated triple A.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: They're now down to double A.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then go as far as saying, you know, Argentina, who we've talked about before, um the rate on Argentinian bonds will always be quite high.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And in the um, I suppose around 2013 to 2020, the Chinese bonds were very, very popular.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: China started issuing, it's government started issuing uh bonds, and they were popular because they were considered very, very safe, but the rate of interest they paid was much, much higher than say in America or Germany.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so so that's the thing with the bond.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people always will always want a higher return, but you know, the higher the return, the more risk that you're that you're taking on.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um, the thing about bonds is just like shares, they can be bought and sold.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: You can buy a bond today and sell tomorrow.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you can lose money on bonds.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Bonds, the price of bonds changes all the time because there could be a change in the mood in terms of say, like Britain under Liz Truss, she was suddenly announcing that Britain was going to borrow all this money and she'd be paid back by growth, and no one believed her.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so there was a sell-off of British bonds.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: People suddenly went, God, the good she she's about to issue more bonds.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, she'll have to issue more bonds because she's borrowing, she's no way of repaying it.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, why would we want the older ones?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: So the older ones become less popular and their price falls.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: So bonds can um can fall in price.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: But if you look at an awful lot of pension funds, there'll be some touch on pensions a bit later on, but shares and bonds very often will be the main component of um yeah, the shares being the growth and the bonds being the kind of the safer option.
• 7:53
  unknown: Yeah.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: So we were talking, it's just something that you were bringing up.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: This whole idea of investing in whiskey.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I just had clients inquire about it, but it seems to be physically investing in whiskey barrels, which and this great return, these high returns, but it's like it's a single commodity, and I don't know where the barrels are stored, how safe are they?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Are they investing in a company that makes whiskey or are they investing in just the barrels?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: I I I think you probably can do both.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: You probably can't.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: It could be a separate company near the are they near the are they doing it with the whiskey company.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure if it's the whiskey or is there a separate company?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I did have a few inquiries about it.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like like I say to me with these type ones, it's a single item, if it's spare cash, you're you're not looking for it in a hurry because it like the the barrels could go up and smoke, you know.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think spare cash is very, very important.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thing you've mentioned there, because um, you know, I worked in a uh in a sector where we specialized in I suppose small company investment.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: And um the truth is that that that when you own shares in a private company as opposed to a public one, how do you sell?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Who are you selling to?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Who's who's gonna take the shares off you?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, if you've let's say you've got uh a lot of these kind of AI type or techie startups, they're they're looking to kind of get the product established and get sales going, and five years later they want someone big to come along.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um there's quite a well-known uh company called Contessa Pharmaceuticals in Ireland, and uh they were bought out recently by Eli Lilly.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I know for a fact that some of the staff got abs I mean some of the I think the average bonus was around the million mark.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Jeez.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um it all sounds very, very good.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose with the whiskey one, we we we could have someone listening today who has heard about one of these investments, knows somebody involved, might think, well, if he's in it or she's in it, then I'm interested.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um these are high, high risk investments.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, very high risk ones, yeah.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: These are the investments that go to the wall.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: They either go to the wall or go to the moon, you know, and uh spare cash.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a very, very important um uh idea, you know, when when investing in these companies, that they that it's you it's money you can afford to lose.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: If it's money you really need in 20 years or not 20 years, so say like like three, two, three years, then don't don't invest here.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Please don't invest here.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's just it can be very hard to get your money out, and even if you can get your money out, isn't is it still going to be worth as much as everyone thought at the beginning?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: You have some knowledge, Marcus, in the renewable sector.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, tell us something about that.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well obviously it especially well it's it's always been a kind of an interest for people because they like some white lights, it was it was kind of ethically good as well.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: You're investing with some because all the kind of funds, I don't even remember a company came in who wanted to do uh a kind of uh they wanted to put all these funds together.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um those shocks ones, one had uh tobacco companies in it, and I think there might have been military companies in it.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: And we were like, well, kind of got it goes against our our ethics, especially smoky ones.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: He was trying to get people to live longer or stuff like that.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I think there has been a big shift of people going more ethically.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: So renewables is obviously one and uh it had been.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: I know there was a fall-off there, it had been doing well, and then obviously renewables kind of I think trying to get all these the problem with these projects that they're difficult to get, get up and running, they're taking time, planning, and then I think there was a slowdown in the obviously the the uh material to to make say wind turbines make make the there was a lack of components, the solar panels, all that kind of stuff.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it there would it they did the renewable energy sector did fall off a bit in more recent years and it didn't do as well because uh people obviously invested because they were thinking, well, look, all these wars going on, we need to get more, and the whole it was devileris type thing to make Ireland self-sufficient, so obviously renewable energy is the way to go, especially with all the I suppose you have the most wind in Europe, so that we could be kind of kicking out.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, and and it did make clients of ours a lot of money in the past because obviously renewable energy was booming, but obviously it's it's it's fallen off more recently, yeah.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, like considering the cons yeah, like oil went to close to 150 a barrel in 2007.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so there was there was uh um it's it's just slipped my mind now, but there was a film uh film all about this.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: This uh Matt Damon was in it, um, and it was all about you know the oil in the Middle East and the various companies are involved in that and you know dodgy deals in Kazakhstan and all this.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just just popped down in my head.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: But um there's this, you know, there's a quote in the film from Matt Damon saying, you know, it's running out.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's what he means about oil.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's running out.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: And back in 2007 was a real worry that oil was literally running out, you know, and even though we have at our current use of 91 million barrels a day or 90, now the but the number of barrel metals today has dropped with the with the war and around.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um that we've only got about four 47 years worth of oil.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I think long term these renewable investments will will pay off if they're well run.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, if they're well run, do you know, like just because you're creating a business that's selling renewable energy, what are the management team like?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Are they any good?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Do they care?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, do they have wealth elsewhere?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Is this just like uh something they're doing for a while until they get something else going?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's investing in a company that's selling a uh a commodity for me is is high risk.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh high risk.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um bank accounts.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: You were telling me, what was the figure you were telling me?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: The amount of money that's on deposited islands.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'm always a seminar.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's like over 200 billion.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Irish people have more money on deposit than they ever had.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: Just earning nothing, sitting in well, maybe they might have some of the deposit accounts earning a bit like what we mentioned by the bonds at 1% or something.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's very low interest, and it at a time when inflation in Ireland is is is certainly creeping up, um your your real return, which is the return, the interest rate minus kind of the array of inflation, is just as a rule of thumb, um, is negative.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: So that it's a bit like we probably dementia the bond markets there, that all these lower interest rates say for are all dependent on inflation.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: Inflation can just kill your growth.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Inflation kills, yeah.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Inflation kills and this is one of the reasons that that that governments or central banks are so serious about inflation because um 2% we can live with, but beyond that, we're we're cutting into the savings of people, uh pension funds of people.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, um, I know a lot of people would be very uh familiar with the state savings schemes, which I think um pay kind of a guaranteed sum that isn't very high, but I think there's no tax on it.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's kind of an incentive to top.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they pay I've switched some clients out of them before.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like I always say clients keep do keep a bit on deposit or current count for emergencies, but we should be investing the rest.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you can you can pick your level of risk you want to do with it.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: They are pretty safe.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: They are pretty safe.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's a hundred grand um per institution.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've got a hundred thousand in Bank of Ireland, then Bank of Ireland goes bust.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: The Irish state will guarantee that that investment for you.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have touched on on pensions, you know, but um I I do meet people very often.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: I remember one guy last year, he said he'd very he nothing put away in his pension.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um I said what happens if you live beyond 75?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes, I don't plan to live that long.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, What if you're unlucky and you do live that long?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, he didn't have an answer.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and and the the truth is like the state pension is about 15 grand a year.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think in our lifetime, Marcus, it'll be there because people don't like cutting interest rates, uh, or not cutting interest rates, cutting pensions on older people who all vote.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: You can see them on election day, they're they're it's their big day and they're they're looking forward to it.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas, you know, people are maybe kids or businesses or jobs are just too busy to turn up, but the older older people will turn up, so you don't upset them.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: So for that reason, I think the state pension will be with us for for quite some time.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's just the cost of it's going up, and that's why we're obviously my job I'm trying to get people to have their private pension set up.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously, the auto enrollment, though the industry we would see it as a great product, but obviously we think it's great for getting people talking about pensions and for certain people maybe auto enrollment suits them.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: But obviously, we obviously see the the the advantages of your of your having your own pension and the the investments and the and the flexibility of I suppose.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good idea.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I I remember coming across the thing, my my daughter Evie's she's only 13 uh 14 soon, and she's expected to live till about 100.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think our generation they say we're gonna live over 100, yeah.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: So so 35 years, you know, retirement.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um retired 65, how are you gonna pay for that?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um so so I suppose the last thing we might touch on is uh I suppose the whole area of of gold as an investment.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this pops up with me every so often.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: I I remember one year gold was skyrocketing our clients coming to you, Marcus, gold, gold, gold, and like you say, they were talking to someone in the pub, they invested, they made a ton of money.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: They come to me and said, Well, gold.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what I usually do, I'll invest all the life offices, we'll have a gold fund, so it's in a fund rather than in obviously there is an aspect that is obviously invested in gold bars for say, but obviously it's in a fund managed by invest manager.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I I know from looking at those funds, one year it's up 22%, the next year it's down 14%.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's gold is so volatile, you know, it is affected by the markets.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, people, well, you can invest in it again if it's bare cash because you're investing in kind of a single commodity, even if it isn't a fund.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I just people like that, they get all these fads, and people say I've done it, so I've made money.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: But maybe they made money in that year, but they could have lost money on the previous year, but didn't tell them that.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so I have to say to clients, look, well, gold is quite volatile.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: I prefer to invest in a managed fund.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe there is a little bit of gold in it, some percentage, but it's spread across property, the shares, commodities.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe there is a little of gold in there, other stuff utilities.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: It uh, as we said before, you're diversified.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot, that's the best thing with these managed funds.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: The investment managers done all the stuff for you, they've diversified.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: And as I say, the clients, the higher the risk, the more in the stocks and shares, and that's the way they work.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, gold, you you know yourself.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: If if we I know there's those gold traders and the stockbrokers who know about it, and they're making the money in it, but obviously, these, as I say, a normal ordinary investor doesn't know all the inside, doesn't know what when well there's no dividend from gold.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you can only make money if gold goes up or down.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's the only way you can make money.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's kind of seen as a safe, safe investment.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: So when when things go wrong in the world, people tend to go to gold.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's only about one percent of the mined a year.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: So if the total stock of gold is say a million tons, then it's only a thousand tons are ever found every year.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: So they don't find a lot of it.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it it it's from a supply and demand point of view, it tends to keep its price.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: But it's become probably a more active part of the investment world than I think it was uh before.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh, you know, and obviously uh oil.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, anyone who who'd uh who'd bet on oil uh where we are now, it's it's it's hard to believe in some in some ways that it's not higher.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, Mr.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Trump's war will go on until it and until it doesn't.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, oil is likely to come back, in my opinion, it'll come back down below its pre-war level.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: People have gotten used to not having as much of it and they've gotten used to better used to not to not using it, or they start to replace it with uh with other things.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, um I think we might we might leave it there, Marcus.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh for today.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think two people have listened to us enough, have they?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully they'll want to listen next time.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, but tune in next time.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Tune in next time.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, obviously.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh all right, take care.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Bye soon, bye-bye.