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135. Illusions · Dennis Rox: Confessional Self-Improvement & Psychology

• 0:00
  Mike: On this week's episode.
• 0:01
  Mike: Everybody wants to fucking look like a model, be rich as a fucking millionaire, right, All the same shit, Most people.
• 0:07
  Mike: The reason I think there's failure is because they never think about actually what's required in order to get to your goal.
• 0:13
  Toliy: There's a huge, huge thing of what others feel about you and people's like whole lives is based on this, and the only way that they get this not through the process of actually learning is to try to buy their ways into these things.
• 0:25
  Eldar: You know we can actually.
• 0:26
  Eldar: You know, based on what we talked about, if properly examined, we can actually get exactly what we want out of life.
• 0:31
  Eldar: You know we can be happy.
• 0:33
  Eldar: You know we can be fulfilled.
• 0:35
  Eldar: Okay, so today's topic we're going to talk about, I guess, the paradox of life and how a lot of times you can start something with an attachment, where you hold strong attachments towards something and they don't serve you.
• 0:58
  Eldar: They provide you lots of suffering.
• 1:00
  Eldar: Fuck, I wish I had the example Right.
• 1:04
  Eldar: You lots of suffering.
• 1:04
  Eldar: Fuck, I wish I had the example Right.
• 1:05
  Eldar: But as soon as you start letting go of those attachments, you start putting focus towards the things that actually do serve you and help you in life, right, the secondary things, like those attachments, actually come back around and fulfill themselves, let's just say, in a very natural, organic way, without you even expecting it anymore.
• 1:25
  Eldar: Right, yeah?
• 1:26
  Mike: well, I thought this is what we were talking about is the trip to Bermuda, where that was an example.
• 1:32
  Eldar: Okay, that was an example.
• 1:33
  Mike: That was a small example.
• 1:34
  Mike: Yeah, that was a small one of it.
• 1:35
  Mike: Yeah, like not expecting it, but it's happening.
• 1:38
  Mike: You know, I wanted it but and then all of a sudden I got surprised, like yeah, surprised by it.
• 1:44
  Mike: Yeah, exactly that was.
• 1:45
  Mike: I'm not sure if that was the exact one, but I don't think so.
• 1:48
  Mike: There was something else.
• 1:48
  Eldar: There was something else, and then I made that example, it's like, yeah, look, you wanted to go to Bermuda, you wanted to go do a trip, you want to go on vacation, or whatever, and then you kind of dropped it right because maybe maybe you were crying about it or whatever.
• 2:01
  Eldar: You were crying about it Like, oh, I'm so tired, I want to do this, do that, and then certain things weren't lining up.
• 2:06
  Eldar: You were going to go away with your mom yeah, I remember that.
• 2:09
  Eldar: Yeah, you want to kind of do something.
• 2:10
  Eldar: But then you're like, ah, this is not right, you know, and then you put that down.
• 2:14
  Mike: Yeah.
• 2:15
  Eldar: Right.
• 2:15
  Eldar: And then kind of it came, know it's happening for your birthday and it's a.
• 2:28
  Eldar: It was a pleasant surprise, right?
• 2:28
  Eldar: And I think if we discuss actually how you felt maybe, uh, about the surprise, you probably find out that this was what I'm talking about that sprinkle on on top where, like you know, the attachment was let go and now it just kind of happened.
• 2:43
  Eldar: And now you're like, oh wow, that's nice, like I didn't expect that, but that's nice, right.
• 2:46
  Eldar: Yeah, so no more holding of attachments, but somehow things still work out the way they do and you still end up being happy.
• 2:55
  Eldar: And I think that there's a if you can figure this thing out or crack it.
• 3:01
  Eldar: I think this is a good key to our happiness, our personal happiness.
• 3:07
  Eldar: Does this make sense?
• 3:09
  Eldar: Totally or no?
• 3:10
  Eldar: Do you understand what we're saying?
• 3:11
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah, I do.
• 3:13
  Eldar: Okay.
• 3:17
  Mike: I think we would have to probably discuss what we were talking about along with that day.
• 3:23
  Mike: It was like the statement you made about the sprinkles on top, you know.
• 3:32
  Eldar: I think it's important to say what on top of what, like what the sprinkles are, you know well, yeah, I think that they come from, uh, identifying some, some stuff in your life that holds a very specific essence, which is probably the truth, right, where you are focused on doing the right thing.
• 3:53
  Eldar: Let's just say, and it's identified as the right thing not just by you, but it's universally the right thing to do right.
• 3:59
  Eldar: And as you zoom in and focus on that stuff, I think the universe positions itself in such a way where it starts to align other things that were maybe loose ends that you had in your life towards making your life a little bit easier.
• 4:13
  Eldar: You know what I mean From that stuff as well.
• 4:16
  Eldar: You know it's almost like, okay, we'll check this off for you, we'll check that off for you, or whatever.
• 4:20
  Eldar: And then next thing you know you're much lighter, or whatever.
• 4:23
  Eldar: And then next thing you know you're much lighter, not from those things that were accomplished, but actually from just doing the right thing for a long period of time.
• 4:32
  Eldar: That's what I think.
• 4:34
  Toliy: Yeah.
• 4:35
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 4:35
  Eldar: So I think there's something to it where, when you identify a focus, you focus on that thing.
• 4:42
  Eldar: You're doing the right stuff, people recognize that you're doing the right stuff, people recognize that you're doing the right stuff, and then the universe positions itself in such a way where then you get its blessings.
• 4:50
  Eldar: That's just a quote.
• 4:51
  Eldar: Unquote channel genes in here, you know yeah yeah, totally.
• 4:57
  Eldar: I think that you can speak a lot on this topic.
• 4:59
  Eldar: I think you believe in the same stuff.
• 5:01
  Eldar: Maybe we can iron it out.
• 5:04
  Toliy: Yeah, I mean yeah, no, no, I mean I understand what you guys are saying and yeah, yeah, I mean I agree with it.
• 5:13
  Eldar: What's the makeup of this stuff.
• 5:14
  Eldar: The makeup of it Is the makeup correct.
• 5:20
  Toliy: So what do you mean by makeup?
• 5:21
  Eldar: Well, I just explained where, a lot of times, right, we have these attachments about life Like, oh, I want to get this done, I want this in my life, I want that in my life.
• 5:29
  Eldar: Right, I mean to bring up examples or real life examples like, oh, I want to, I want to fall in love, I want a girlfriend, I want a house, so I want to, I want a car, I want this and the third you know what I mean For it to line up this way, you know, and like those things kind of like irk us almost because we don't have it yet right, but we want it.
• 5:49
  Eldar: Where this desire is actually, you know, making us suffer and taking away from our happiness.
• 5:55
  Eldar: But as soon as we line up with the truth and we start focusing on the stuff that we're supposed to be focusing on right, not that stuff, let's just say, things start to line up in accordance and you start getting those things accomplished.
• 6:09
  Eldar: Let's just say, or those things come to you more organically and naturally where you're like oh, wow, like that's nice, that's a nice kind of surprise, like that's the makeup is what I'm talking about.
• 6:19
  Mike: Yeah, I was thinking Byproduct.
• 6:22
  Eldar: Yeah, Of doing the right stuff.
• 6:24
  Mike: I was thinking that, like a lot of times, right, people set out goals, we set goals, right Things we would like to accomplish yeah, like you said, falling in love, having a good job, making money, all this shit, yeah, and I think Box checking, yeah, it could be box checking, but it could also be things that you maybe think are meaningful, that you maybe think are meaningful, you know, or maybe they actually are meaningful, you know.
• 6:46
  Mike: But I think, you know, I was like, uh, I was, I was thinking that a lot of times, people, they say these things right, um, and they don't really understand it, um, what's required?
• 6:59
  Mike: So, a lot of times, like, I feel like there's two kinds of things that are coming to my mind.
• 7:04
  Mike: The first one like yo, I want to get a sick job.
• 7:06
  Mike: Fucking make crazy money.
• 7:07
  Mike: Let's use that example, yeah, and all they can think about is how to get this 300k job.
• 7:14
  Mike: Okay, this huge job making all this money over it like thinking about all the time, yeah, but not thinking about actually the meat and potatoes of it, let's call it, but just the dream of that.
• 7:25
  Mike: Like yo, they, yo, they think about yo, I'm going to get this job.
• 7:27
  Mike: Sick car, sick house, bang girl model chick, like you know what did Harris say?
• 7:32
  Mike: Trophy wife, like all this shit.
• 7:34
  Mike: Right, they don't think about, okay, what is required for me to get this crazy job.
• 7:38
  Mike: Yeah, what kind of commitment, what kind of focus?
• 7:40
  Mike: Like yeah, what kind of focus?
• 7:41
  Mike: Like, yeah, what kind of hard work?
• 7:42
  Mike: Right, and those things maybe could be rooted in truth.
• 7:45
  Mike: Right, like when you come to work to make sure you do an excellent job, to fucking focus, pay attention, be patient, yeah, take your time, don't rush right.
• 7:55
  Mike: A lot of times the excitement is on the end goal and not on actually how to get there.
• 8:00
  Mike: Like, everybody wants to fucking look like a model, be rich as a fucking millionaire, right, all the same shit.
• 8:06
  Mike: Like the ideal kind of thing, right, but no, most people.
• 8:09
  Mike: The reason I think this failure is because they never think about actually what's required in order to get to your goal.
• 8:15
  Mike: Now, obviously, I just gave like the materialistic goals, yeah, or vanity goals, but in other, like goals too, right, yeah, um, people don't think of how to achieve their goals, they only think about, uh, they, they.
• 8:31
  Mike: They can only draw a certain level of excitement, uh, from the idea of this image that they create in the head they think is valuable.
• 8:37
  Mike: So, like, there's so much like to unpack there, because it's like attachments to some kind of identity you created, which is, you know, um then getting drawing the excitement again another huge violation that we always talk about.
• 8:50
  Mike: so I think there's a lot of things here that, um, I guess violations, yeah, against yourself, against yourself, and not actually doing like um, doing the work, like people just shying away or they're scared of it or they don't understand it.
• 9:06
  Mike: Right, yeah, but that's the paradox.
• 9:08
  Mike: You want to become a millionaire?
• 9:09
  Mike: Okay, go become a millionaire.
• 9:10
  Mike: Go focus, work hard, pay attention, do a good job and you'll become a millionaire.
• 9:15
  Mike: A lot of people, they just want to become a millionaire in their own image, you know like in their own minds, like this fantasy, for example?
• 9:27
  Eldar: right, so then would you say that the attachment is born out of one's ignorance?
• 9:34
  Mike: desire for something, but it's very ignorant based well, yeah, it's probably like yeah again.
• 9:40
  Mike: With that, there's also like it could be that right, which is ignorance, is like an unchecked desire, like wait, yeah, why the fuck do you want to become?
• 9:45
  Eldar: you don't know all the scope of service, of the thing that you want to accomplish, like oh shit, to become a millionaire, I gotta do hundreds of these things like, oh no, no, I don't want to do that yeah, right.
• 9:54
  Eldar: So you kind of ignorantly or blindly setting up these desires and then they form attachments, right, that then you have to almost play out in your life, yeah Well, yeah, that's what I want.
• 10:06
  Eldar: That's what I also want.
• 10:07
  Eldar: That's why the topic was interesting to me, because what's happening is right.
• 10:11
  Eldar: As soon as you build that attachment towards something right Especially if it's based on ignorance, right, which then is also probably you have to defend it with arrogance, right?
• 10:21
  Eldar: Yep, because if somebody ever checks you on there, like, okay, you know what are you doing towards that goal, whatever, you want to be a millionaire, you ain't doing shit, you know then your arrogance or your pride has to come in and step in to defend your ignorance, right?
• 10:33
  Eldar: So what happens is then you set yourself up for a trajectory, a prolonged trajectory, right, to learn the lessons that you need to learn in order to then come all the way around, in order to be able to drop that attachment, to humble yourself.
• 10:48
  Eldar: Drop that attachment, but you know what?
• 10:50
  Eldar: This is not for me, and that's the humbling experience.
• 10:54
  Eldar: However, because you, you know.
• 10:56
  Eldar: Number one, it was ignorant, you didn't check how you set this up.
• 10:59
  Eldar: Number two, you attach yourself to it.
• 11:01
  Eldar: Number three.
• 11:01
  Eldar: You probably arrogantly defended it.
• 11:03
  Eldar: Right Now, with those three actions, you've set yourself up for a very specific future of events that you have to go through in order to overcome these illnesses.
• 11:18
  Eldar: Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
• 11:20
  Eldar: How long is that trajectory, right?
• 11:23
  Eldar: Yeah, could be very long.
• 11:25
  Eldar: Remember you said you had a thing like oh, I want to retire my parents.
• 11:30
  Mike: Yeah.
• 11:31
  Eldar: And you've lived that out for how many years, if not decades?
• 11:34
  Mike: Yeah.
• 11:35
  Eldar: Right.
• 11:35
  Toliy: I think a lot of people do.
• 11:36
  Eldar: Like, yeah, yeah, like, I'm going to make it, I'm going to retire my parents and I'm going to be this fucking hero, the fucking, the knight in the shining armor.
• 11:44
  Eldar: You know what I mean?
• 11:45
  Eldar: Like, and stuff like that.
• 11:47
  Eldar: So, yeah, I think this is very important.
• 11:51
  Eldar: If you really understand these things and how they work, I think they hold the keys to our happiness.
• 11:56
  Eldar: You know what I mean.
• 11:58
  Eldar: If the key is actually of letting go and I think that's what Buddha talked about right, letting go of attachments, right, and not form those attachments, and then you receive the blessings.
• 12:13
  Mike: Yeah, but it's like interesting, like I guess, in the paradoxical thing is like, if you're setting out to achieve something, right, let's use falling in love If you like, yo, I'd like to fall in love.
• 12:25
  Mike: Right, this is my god, this is what I would like you know to accomplish, right, for example, your goal should not be on to fall in love.
• 12:32
  Mike: Your goal should be, I guess, to focus on yourself, work on yourself so you could be a person who's deserving, who's worthy, who's like in line with that to happen, right, yeah, if you want to become millionaire, you don't focus on becoming a millionaire.
• 12:46
  Mike: Focus on the work, that's required so that a byproduct of that life that you're living would be somebody that falls in love, somebody that becomes rich, if that's what you want right, see, there you go Again.
• 12:55
  Eldar: You're talking about the byproduct of already focused work, right, you know what I mean, and I think that any time that we receive the byproducts of our work is where we actually can prolong happiness.
• 13:08
  Eldar: That's where prolonged happiness lies, or lives.
• 13:12
  Mike: Well, because I think doing what you like, because you have a good belief system behind it, is already happiness, like you said.
• 13:20
  Mike: And then the icing on the cake is getting that materialistic thing, if you want to call it that or that other stuff.
• 13:25
  Mike: That's icing on the cake because you're already.
• 13:27
  Mike: What you were doing was happiness, yeah.
• 13:29
  Mike: Coming to work, spending time with your friends, right.
• 13:31
  Mike: Whatever, doing a good job, contributing to the team effort yeah, to the success of other people, right, yeah, a whole bunch of you know a million things you could list.
• 13:39
  Mike: Yeah, those are already they've done.
• 13:42
  Mike: Right, could be great things.
• 13:43
  Mike: Very fulfilling, yeah.
• 13:45
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 13:45
  Mike: Getting.
• 13:46
  Mike: The other thing is that's just the icing on the top.
• 13:48
  Mike: Mm-hmm, you know.
• 13:53
  Eldar: That's very interesting, actually, yeah, so what do you think, tully?
• 13:58
  Eldar: Oh my God, there's definitely a lot here.
• 14:02
  Eldar: You did the Archie side.
• 14:07
  Toliy: Yeah, oh, my god, there's definitely a lot here.
• 14:08
  Eldar: You did the Archie sigh well.
• 14:08
  Eldar: Shine some light on it, man, help us out here.
• 14:10
  Toliy: I definitely think that, like first off, I guess to address what we were saying on desires, lots of times I think people confuse.
• 14:22
  Toliy: They have a confusion as to like them wanting something versus them wanting a particular feeling.
• 14:30
  Toliy: Okay, they confuse those two things.
• 14:32
  Toliy: Yeah, like someone that's never had like, let's just say, like a Rolex or something.
• 14:39
  Eldar: Mm, hmm.
• 14:41
  Toliy: Like for you to want a uh, rolex, like I don't know in what world do you go from like being who you are to getting this kind of more like elegant time piece, right, that like it's very particular, it's very fancy looking like, unless you dress a particular way, like it looks usually a bit out of place, right, it's a very particular look, right, right, yeah, and then, like so many people, for example, want it or they want one of these, like APs or these other, like popular, expensive, for example, like watches and oftentimes I have a feeling that these are not people that have been like notoriously well wearing watches for a long time like looking into different movements and like different things.
• 15:23
  Toliy: Like likelex is a like, a like, like a lot of those watches like, for example, like the more popular model, like the submariner or something like that, like that's a diving watch, for example.
• 15:36
  Toliy: Yeah, right, the utilities diving people are not, they're like, they have sick features.
• 15:41
  Toliy: Like you can go like thousands of feet, for example.
• 15:43
  Toliy: Right, like underwater, yeah, they'll operate in particular ways.
• 15:47
  Toliy: And like, oh, the seed dweller is like the upgraded version of it, where you could go like 30 000 feet or something like that.
• 15:53
  Toliy: Like, like, I don't know.
• 15:54
  Toliy: It's like like they have better and worse ones where, like they'll perform better.
• 15:59
  Toliy: Oh, they have this kind of like a timer for this and that and, like you know, no one's buying them, obviously for the utility.
• 16:07
  Toliy: You're buying it for like like a look, I guess.
• 16:10
  Toliy: But it's also like like like I always like, I always wanted like, for example, like a, um, really nice Rolex.
• 16:17
  Toliy: I remember a while ago you said you, you gave me one for, like my uh, 30th birthday, but did I get it or no?
• 16:26
  Toliy: Uh, did I get it?
• 16:26
  Toliy: Well, that exact thing?
• 16:27
  Toliy: No, but like, there's not one part of me that wants that right now.
• 16:30
  Toliy: Like absolutely zero.
• 16:32
  Toliy: Yeah, one, I'm not really a watch guy.
• 16:35
  Toliy: Like, yeah, like to be a watch guy you like, for example, every day.
• 16:39
  Eldar: That's annoying the keyboard.
• 16:41
  Toliy: Yeah, so to wear a watch to me.
• 16:42
  Toliy: I've not found one watch that I actually enjoy wearing while being at the keyboard.
• 16:48
  Toliy: So then what, I'm going to come to work every day, take it off and put it on my desk and then put it back on when I go to lunch, to come back to work, take it off, like, and then I'm going to sit in my house with the Rolex on, like watch TV, like like for that to be a like or look good or feel good or stuff like that, like I have to be in a position where, like, I'm mainly like meeting with people, probably, and it's just like yeah I'm not at the keyboard a lot anymore and like I don't know, like I'm just talking or like coaching people or something, yeah, and then maybe I yeah, I'm there, I'm probably gonna wear it most of the whole day and if I like how it looks, like okay.
• 17:21
  Toliy: But then you would have to be in a position where, like you need maybe like nothing else, like yeah, it's almost like you're trying to find things to buy, like, but like that's the rare amount of people compared to people who actually get them and stuff like that, yeah, or or or like desire them.
• 17:38
  Toliy: But I often feel that again, it's a confusion of, like they want this watch, but now what if there was a revolt in the whole world and all the people that they looked up to said like that watch, if you wear that watch, like it's so ugly, it's so bad, and like it means that you suck or something right yeah, like for example right yeah it's, it's, it's the same thing.
• 17:59
  Toliy: When you have those brands that are like their products are not worth anything, then a celebrity starts wearing them and now they're worth a lot boom, right, what if it was the opposite effect, that, like they were to do that?
• 18:09
  Toliy: you're not going to get caught without watch on.
• 18:11
  Toliy: You know so.
• 18:13
  Toliy: But the the main point I was trying to make was that it's oftentimes that, like again, you want the high paying job, you want the huge house, you want the fast car.
• 18:20
  Toliy: Like you want different material items, you want this.
• 18:21
  Toliy: It's not that you want that actual item, you want the fast car.
• 18:23
  Toliy: Like you want different material items, you want this.
• 18:25
  Toliy: It's not that you want that actual item.
• 18:27
  Toliy: I think that you actually want the experience, because I think that your brain translates that into like this will equate to you feeling a particular way.
• 18:36
  Toliy: So therefore, you desire it and you convince yourself that like this is what you need.
• 18:41
  Toliy: But you don't go through that process.
• 18:45
  Toliy: When desiring at first, you don't say like hey, like I want to have high self-esteem, but what can I get to do that?
• 18:52
  Toliy: Like how do I go about that, for example?
• 18:53
  Toliy: You don't go like the reverse way.
• 18:56
  Toliy: For example, you know um.
• 18:59
  Toliy: So that, I think, is one thing.
• 19:00
  Toliy: Does that make sense?
• 19:01
  Toliy: Sense?
• 19:01
  Toliy: Like no, it does you know?
• 19:03
  Toliy: Yeah, like you see the wealthy person on in the movie with the happy family and like the good looking wife and like the the uh nice car and, like you know, dressed well, and like this is what you want.
• 19:16
  Toliy: This is like what you desire, right, but it's like I don't think that you like desire those particular things.
• 19:25
  Toliy: You desire what you think is a feeling.
• 19:27
  Toliy: You desire, like you picture what this person feels every day and you create it into a story.
• 19:33
  Toliy: And now you want the story to be you want to be this, you want to be living out that story, this story you know like Tyra said right, Um, it looks like they have it all put together.
• 19:46
  Eldar: Like, what do you say?
• 19:47
  Toliy: Like they have it all figured out, yeah, or like girls want to be like a princess, for example, or something right, Like when they're really young.
• 19:55
  Eldar: They want to get married, they have a white dress and all that stuff.
• 19:57
  Toliy: Yeah, like very particular things.
• 19:58
  Toliy: It's like where does this come from?
• 20:00
  Toliy: It comes from you connecting in your head a particular story and then you getting to a point where you buy into this, making you feel a particular way, and you're going to actually live out this like fantasy that you think is going to be right, just to prove yourself wrong one day.
• 20:16
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah, just to prove yourself one point.
• 20:18
  Toliy: But I do agree that when you get these kinds of things as more of just like a, like a byproduct, sprinkles as sprinkles, um one, it feels different, like it feels like like when, when you get it, it doesn't have that kind of weight on it, you know where like this was supposed to make me feel this way, or something like that.
• 20:40
  Toliy: Yeah, so it has like a like a lesser weight.
• 20:42
  Toliy: Yeah, right, um, like, like it's, it's that thing and there's nothing else more to it.
• 20:49
  Toliy: Like that is what it is, that you know, yeah so you're seeing the thing for what it is, yeah.
• 20:56
  Toliy: Versus for what it's not yeah it's, yeah, it's not the makeup of who you are, what you're about, or like, yeah, it doesn't define you, I guess, right, yeah, yeah, when you get, when you get it as like a side thing, but when you make it the main thing, you're willing to basically um, like you're basically taking all your like morals and your values and everything and like bunching it up and trying to put it into this object or this like experience that you feel you know, and it has becomes this heavy weight of like doing something, right, like I don't know.
• 21:28
  Toliy: Like if we're talking about the retiring of the parents, like if that's one goal, that's a very heavy weight.
• 21:35
  Toliy: For example, right, wait, returning what?
• 21:37
  Toliy: Like retiring of the parents?
• 21:39
  Toliy: Oh, retiring of the parents, yeah, like that's a heavy weight to put on yourself.
• 21:43
  Toliy: That it's like a heavy just in general, like there's a lot heaviness when thinking about that, right, yeah, but if you're just focusing on what you do and you so happen to get I don't know, maybe extremely wealthy and you could put someone in a position where maybe they could get paid for doing something they enjoy or like something like that and they and it's like I don't know, maybe a situation happens where that's more doable.
• 22:05
  Mike: I think it's different than when it's the main goal for example yeah, no, I agree, I agree um but like what you're saying, I guess the way I mean I just want to like repeat it I guess it's like people are attached to an image of something else, someone else, and they're constantly chasing that by buying these things, dressing a certain way which is, to me, it sounds like extremely detrimental to your own self-esteem and self-worth.
• 22:34
  Mike: It's like a fucking shotgun yourself in the foot, bro.
• 22:37
  Mike: It's horrible.
• 22:38
  Eldar: That's what I'm saying that if you really pay attention, you can predetermine somebody's future based on the decision-making that they have and based on the attachments that they have.
• 22:47
  Eldar: You know what I mean.
• 22:48
  Eldar: Like totally, for example, can write Harris's future right now, if you wanted to.
• 22:54
  Eldar: Like yo, based on what you're telling me and based on attachments that you have, based on the stupid stuff that you're doing, I know where you're going to fall.
• 23:01
  Eldar: I know how you're going to fall.
• 23:03
  Eldar: I know what you're going to realize and this is where you're going to fall.
• 23:04
  Eldar: I know what you're going to realize and this is where you're going to end up.
• 23:06
  Eldar: This is very easy to do if you really pay attention.
• 23:08
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 23:09
  Eldar: So, yeah, it is.
• 23:11
  Eldar: It's literally shooting yourself in the foot.
• 23:13
  Eldar: However, these are the attachments that you form.
• 23:17
  Eldar: This is who you are as a person, so you almost have to live them out to prove to yourself that this is not it Right, like the Jim Carrey's famous quote right.
• 23:27
  Eldar: And that's pretty crazy, but I think that's how we work and that's how I think reality works.
• 23:32
  Eldar: You know that we need to almost do this for our own sake, you know, to one day maybe save ourselves or prove ourselves wrong because we're so attached to this.
• 23:45
  Eldar: Like you said, said a materialistic thing that we think is creating a specific feeling, which we observing and saying I want that right.
• 23:56
  Toliy: yeah, because the thing is that I think, with, with, with, all that, the more I'm thinking about is that, like you're wanting to buy like, um, lifelong lessons and experiences and like, uh, I don't know like wisdom and values and all this thing through items, without like using your head.
• 24:14
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 24:15
  Toliy: To like to to do things.
• 24:16
  Eldar: Yeah, to skip over those things.
• 24:18
  Toliy: Yeah, because it's like when, if, if you were, I think that if you were to take any of these different things right and you were to sit down with, with, with these individuals, right, yeah, like a very calm setting, and you were to review them one by one, you know, like, what are you trying to accomplish?
• 24:36
  Toliy: What do you think you'll get from this?
• 24:39
  Toliy: What are you hoping to receive?
• 24:41
  Toliy: You know, um, what do you want, right?
• 24:44
  Toliy: Um, I have a feeling that a lot of these things, if they are again you, you could create the conversation.
• 24:50
  Toliy: They'll want acceptance, they want, like, love, they want, um, maybe some level of freedom.
• 24:59
  Toliy: Um, they they're going to talk about a lot of those like, like, I, I think that you'd be able to extract from them a lot of really good things right.
• 25:11
  Eldar: If you have the ability to structure questions in a very specific way if you could lead them to it.
• 25:15
  Toliy: these things in this cool way through these different items and these different like materialistic things when it comes to it.
• 25:32
  Mike: Well, I think the reason I just had the thought, the reason it seems paradoxical right, is because it is because people are actually not living their own lives.
• 25:42
  Mike: Yeah, they're living some kind of like fantasy.
• 25:44
  Mike: Yeah, not living their own lives.
• 25:45
  Mike: Yeah, they're living some kind of like fantasy, fantasy, yeah.
• 25:46
  Mike: Therefore, it is paradoxical because that's not how it's supposed to be, that's how it's.
• 25:52
  Mike: Yeah, it's like it's crazy yeah you're not actually yourself.
• 25:55
  Eldar: You're just an image of something that you saw on the tv, something you know like without truly examining right, like, hey, I really like to his suit or his watch or his car or his girl or whatever, right, you see, like the way he's carrying himself or he's portraying himself right now, in this moment, right, but a lot of times we don't see what happens behind closed doors, right, and it's, I mean, even seen through celebrities, even, right, the celebrity gossip stuff, right, I don't know who ben affleck, jennifer lopez, right, or some other athletes or whatever, right, right, where, like, oh, externally they look good, but then even externally, sometimes we see them completely fall flat on their face when it comes to relationships, right, they jump from one person to another and stuff like that, and we see that they're actually not happy, right, despite the fact that they have.
• 26:40
  Eldar: So quote, unquote, everything.
• 26:42
  Eldar: You know what I mean?
• 26:43
  Eldar: It's clearly showing that, okay, okay, sure, you might have attained some stuff, but did you actually get it?
• 26:48
  Eldar: And most, and a lot of the times, right to a naked eye, to you know, a person who doesn't really pay attention and understand that's the life like, wow, they're very happy well, that the what's called.
• 27:00
  Toliy: that's.
• 27:00
  Toliy: The thing is that it's very.
• 27:01
  Toliy: If you're not a thinking individual, it's very difficult to exist in a world of marketing, right?
• 27:10
  Toliy: Because you do have thinking individuals who are very smart in particular fields, that know exactly how people operate and how they Psychology works, yeah, like react to different things and they create again very particular movies, very particular ads.
• 27:29
  Eldar: Agendas yeah.
• 27:30
  Toliy: They have pushed very particular agendas.
• 27:32
  Toliy: They don't say like, hey, we're about to show you a movie about a loving, great family that has a lot of money.
• 27:39
  Toliy: However, none of this is real and this is all extremely difficult to attain.
• 27:44
  Toliy: Yeah, and if it were to be attained, it requires a ton of work.
• 27:48
  Toliy: Yeah, no, you just see the end product of a, a made-up thing again a movie, an ad right, uh, filters on on, uh, on apps, right like, yeah, you see things that are not like realistic you know, yeah, they're like.
• 28:06
  Toliy: You don't see, a girl will be like.
• 28:08
  Toliy: She'll show a picture of hey, I'm wearing makeup right now.
• 28:12
  Toliy: This is how I look, but here's a picture of me without makeup on right next to it.
• 28:16
  Toliy: No, you only see the filtered makeup.
• 28:19
  Toliy: Best of the best, best of the best, and then you try to compare yourself to that.
• 28:25
  Toliy: I also wanted to make a comment on like, for example.
• 28:31
  Toliy: A very basic thing is like I don't know, like designer clothing or like very expensive clothing or something like that.
• 28:38
  Toliy: It's like why are those people buying it?
• 28:43
  Toliy: they're buying it because they have an association with what others feel about them, right, mm-hmm, yeah, like this is why you buy a basic shirt, but because it says Balenciaga on it, you want to pay $500 for it, yeah.
• 28:59
  Toliy: But if the shirt said, for example, old Navy, let's say, if it was identical materials, you know you're not gonna wear it or you don't want to wear it, yeah, why?
• 29:08
  Toliy: Because you feel that people will associate some kind of way.
• 29:11
  Toliy: And what are you trying to get at the end of the day is what, like?
• 29:15
  Toliy: If you're trying to dress really well and go to, like I don't know, go out, you're trying to what?
• 29:19
  Toliy: You're trying to impress a girl.
• 29:20
  Toliy: You're trying to get someone to what to like you, someone to want to speak like you, someone to want to speak to you, somebody to want to get to know you, all of these different things.
• 29:30
  Toliy: That's what I'm saying is, I think that if you have these conversations with these people, you will see that, if you're able to help them break it down in a very particular setting that they actually want these things, they just have absolutely no clue of how to get them, other than the ways that they've been marketed to, other than what they see from influencers and other than the very end product that the celebrity or whatever they look up to puts out right.
• 29:56
  Toliy: So it's not like they look at, or no, let's say, a very famous actor, like whoever who dresses really well, like take anybody right, like they look at that and where do they often see them?
• 30:08
  Toliy: It's not like they see them often in the street or stuff like that, right maybe at the red carpet, right on the ads, on the ads right, or in the movie, or like they always put together.
• 30:17
  Toliy: You know stuff like that how do these celebrities look out there when they're caught in public?
• 30:21
  Toliy: Oh man, like how do they look.
• 30:23
  Toliy: We even make fun of.
• 30:24
  Eldar: Like the look yeah, they want the low hat?
• 30:26
  Toliy: yeah, sunglasses.
• 30:27
  Toliy: They wear baggy clothing.
• 30:28
  Toliy: Yes, do they wear these nice like suits and watches when they go to the grocery store?
• 30:33
  Toliy: And what they try to do?
• 30:34
  Toliy: Yeah, hide, they try to hide, right, um, but what?
• 30:40
  Toliy: What you think about like, like, like.
• 30:42
  Toliy: If I just say the word to you, george cluning, what do you think about like, or or like someone that like someone that looks like a 007 type?
• 30:50
  Eldar: figure right.
• 30:50
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely Daniel Craig, definitely Nice glasses, watch Nice classy, watch Nice suit Really good, nice fabrics on, probably Suit, clean, shaven, right, yeah, you know, probably haircut every week at least, if not a few days.
• 31:11
  Toliy: Right, groomed everything, right, yeah, um, and like that might be that day on set or maybe like that ad, like it's set up in that kind of way to make you look like that for that moment.
• 31:16
  Toliy: But this is not who these people are when they live their normal lives.
• 31:20
  Toliy: Yeah, but that's not what the marketing is.
• 31:22
  Toliy: The marketing is that very moment for that one second.
• 31:25
  Toliy: The marketing is.
• 31:29
  Toliy: The marketing is that very moment for that one second.
• 31:30
  Toliy: Right, if any of us were put in that kind of way, with any kind of effects, given the best fabrics, the best watches, the best everything, we will look that same way for that one second.
• 31:36
  Toliy: Yeah, that one moment that captures.
• 31:39
  Eldar: Yeah, that of those two thousand pictures that are taking within seconds yeah you know, so what suggestion you're making for the general public that's having a hard time navigating all these waters?
• 31:48
  Mike: Mm-hmm.
• 31:50
  Toliy: They're fucked.
• 31:50
  Toliy: I have no suggestion for them.
• 31:52
  Toliy: God have mercy on them.
• 31:55
  Toliy: No, I think what we said earlier is right.
• 31:59
  Mike: The advice that he didn't want to give to Tom is the advice here Give him everything as fast as possible.
• 32:05
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 32:05
  Mike: Kill them with kindness, give them all the material shit.
• 32:06
  Mike: Yeah, the faster they realize the shit is empty, the better, because the shit is going to run out eventually, you know, because now everything is becoming even more right, like the sickness.
• 32:23
  Mike: It was strong, let's say it was strong.
• 32:25
  Mike: It was, let's say it was strong, right.
• 32:26
  Mike: So you need a haircut every month?
• 32:27
  Mike: Yeah, you need a new watch every year.
• 32:29
  Mike: The sickness is becoming worse, right, because it's still harder to face yourself, that's right.
• 32:33
  Mike: Those things are not.
• 32:34
  Mike: They only last.
• 32:35
  Mike: That new watch, the only shine, lasts for a fucking month.
• 32:38
  Mike: Yeah, now I like, yeah, back to my miserable life.
• 32:40
  Mike: Yeah, right, people getting haircuts now every fucking day, like these fucking celebrity barbers, bro, they get cut like fucking shave-offs every day or every week, bro.
• 32:49
  Mike: That's wild, like yo.
• 32:50
  Mike: What the fuck is happening here?
• 32:51
  Mike: Yeah, it's ridiculous, but I feel like that may be actually leading people to realize, like yo, this shit just burns out, it expires quick, very fast.
• 33:01
  Eldar: So yeah, but the interesting phenomenon still is that what Toli mentions like, look, if you were to take them and sit them down here and ask them very specific questions, they'll tell you exactly the right stuff, right?
• 33:11
  Eldar: So then we almost what we're doing is that we're almost separating the two.
• 33:16
  Eldar: Right, the soul that actually knows?
• 33:19
  Eldar: Let's just say that, let's just call that right.
• 33:21
  Eldar: The soul which actually knows what the truth of the matter is and what it actually wants.
• 33:25
  Eldar: Right, True things.
• 33:26
  Eldar: Let's just say what's good for the soul.
• 33:28
  Eldar: And then we have another identity, which is the one that's been marketed to, or the one that's been created through marketing, which is what do you want to call that?
• 33:37
  Eldar: An actor in this society?
• 33:40
  Eldar: Right?
• 33:41
  Eldar: So we have the soul, and then we have the actor that's acting this stuff out, and I think that they're constantly in this battle between who prevails and what's the gravity.
• 33:51
  Eldar: Is the soul the gravity where, look, the truth of the matter is?
• 33:55
  Mike: That can be debated.
• 33:55
  Mike: Which one is gravity?
• 33:56
  Mike: No, no, you just explained it though.
• 33:57
  Mike: No, you just explained it.
• 33:58
  Eldar: You said look, I'll buy the watch.
• 33:59
  Eldar: I was under the assumption that this watch is going to make me happy for a prolonged period of time.
• 34:04
  Eldar: I'll say, let's say I thought it was going to make me happy for two years.
• 34:07
  Eldar: The truth of the matter is I got it.
• 34:09
  Eldar: It only made me happy for a month or whatever.
• 34:12
  Eldar: Now I'm going back to what A new watch.
• 34:15
  Eldar: I want a new watch, whatever I want to you know, so what's happening is that?
• 34:18
  Eldar: my gravity right, my soul right.
• 34:21
  Eldar: It's winning over the actor who thought that this is going to be good for two years, right.
• 34:27
  Eldar: Same thing with cars.
• 34:28
  Eldar: We do that right.
• 34:28
  Eldar: Every three years we need a new car.
• 34:29
  Eldar: So that's the same thing, right?
• 34:32
  Eldar: We're like that's the soul is the gravity it's going to bring you back to what's actually real, and then the actor is going to constantly fight against the soul, trying to put noodles on its head or try to market some other kind of reality.
• 34:45
  Mike: But the other side has a hard pull too, bro.
• 34:47
  Mike: You know the alter ego or the or the.
• 34:50
  Toliy: But see, I I'm not even sure if it's like an one side versus the other side.
• 34:55
  Toliy: I think that, just like everyone relatively wants the same things, but everybody, but a lot of people, um, they just subscribe to a different way of trying to get there.
• 35:08
  Toliy: You know, that's why I'm saying is that, like the people that you ask them, like you know what they actually want.
• 35:14
  Toliy: They're going to tell you virtuous things.
• 35:16
  Toliy: They just think that they can just work towards buying particular things and they will get the rewards of these learned things.
• 35:24
  Toliy: They're trying to buy their way into the connection of, like the soul.
• 35:30
  Eldar: But it doesn't work.
• 35:34
  Toliy: Which is what I'm saying that the soul has a very specific equation well, yeah, yeah again when you get this expensive shit.
• 35:41
  Toliy: Well, what do you want?
• 35:42
  Toliy: you want love, you want acceptance yeah, you want people to feel a particular way about you, but you want to do all that without actually doing those things, the work.
• 35:50
  Toliy: You want to buy what you think is required to get, like, for example, again like the word respect, right.
• 35:58
  Toliy: And like you always hear oh, if you have this watch on and you walk into a room, you're going to command the room.
• 36:03
  Toliy: You can be like oh shit, this guy's important, yeah, right yeah or like you know you go, you you ever been.
• 36:11
  Toliy: Like you know you walk up to a restaurant, the guy pulls up in a ferrari or something yeah, it's like oh shit, that guy's important.
• 36:18
  Toliy: Yeah, right, he just bought importance to some people.
• 36:22
  Toliy: To some people yeah, that's exactly what's happening.
• 36:26
  Toliy: Or the guy who's I don't know gets a haircut every week and has really good clothing and is in really good shape he's trying to buy.
• 36:37
  Toliy: Or his thing is to get, for example, girls to think a particular way about him and friends and family way about him.
• 36:48
  Toliy: And, for example, and and friends and family, right.
• 36:49
  Toliy: Or, like you know, for example, for our parents, yeah, like your mom always said, like anyone's mom you're.
• 36:51
  Toliy: And anyone's like, oh, like, um, you know, this guy is like oh, her husband's a lawyer or doctor, he's a doctor.
• 37:00
  Toliy: Yeah, what does that mean?
• 37:02
  Toliy: That's it.
• 37:02
  Toliy: He just bought something.
• 37:03
  Toliy: He bought respect from your mom.
• 37:05
  Toliy: Yeah, he bought respect from my parents.
• 37:07
  Toliy: Yeah, right, yeah, like this is what's happening.
• 37:11
  Toliy: Without actually saying it.
• 37:12
  Toliy: They don't say like, hey, he's a lawyer, but he's a real piece of shit.
• 37:15
  Toliy: Yeah, they don't say that.
• 37:17
  Toliy: No, right.
• 37:20
  Toliy: So that's my point is that all of these people who have these kind of goals, if you set them down, they're going to want those virtuous things.
• 37:29
  Toliy: That is all that your soul, for example, or whichever way you want to call it it craves.
• 37:35
  Toliy: But when you don't understand and you got marketed to.
• 37:39
  Toliy: This is what you feel are your ways to get there.
• 37:42
  Toliy: But that's the paradox.
• 37:47
  Toliy: Well, like, like the thing of it again that we're talking about.
• 37:49
  Toliy: Or like jim carrey says, go get all that stuff, it is not gonna fill you up.
• 37:54
  Toliy: Yeah, because it is again like those.
• 37:57
  Toliy: We, we all get some level of happiness when we buy new shit or get new shit, but but, but we, we often see the like first off, it's only a particular level of happiness, right, and it's a very fleeting one as well.
• 38:15
  Toliy: You know, it's like saying like, if we're making like a sick deck for me now, I could have the sickest deck in the world, but I could never invite anybody.
• 38:24
  Toliy: Would you rather have that, or would you just rather have a square shell but invite everybody?
• 38:30
  Toliy: I have a lot of friends, yeah.
• 38:31
  Eldar: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:32
  Toliy: You know.
• 38:33
  Toliy: So like these things, they don't mean anything if you can't enjoy them in particular ways or do them in particular ways.
• 38:40
  Toliy: Yeah, you know.
• 38:41
  Toliy: Yeah, same thing again.
• 38:43
  Toliy: Would someone say like like hey, how about this?
• 38:52
  Toliy: I'll give you unlimited card, you can get as much clothing as you want, you can get the most expensive stuff, doesn't matter what it is.
• 38:55
  Eldar: But you can't ever wear it out in public.
• 38:55
  Toliy: Yeah, you know.
• 38:56
  Toliy: Yeah, no chance.
• 38:56
  Toliy: Yeah, because what actually means is what, like the only thing of significance is what people get like, what kind of feeling that they get from others.
• 39:04
  Toliy: Yeah, like them being able to have the ability to feel that thing.
• 39:11
  Eldar: You know, that's why I have a Rolex, uh podcast only, which I forget to wear.
• 39:16
  Eldar: Yeah you know what I'm saying?
• 39:20
  Eldar: I don't know.
• 39:20
  Toliy: Yeah, okay yeah, man, all the points thrive on that.
• 39:24
  Toliy: They, they there.
• 39:25
  Toliy: There's like there there's a huge, huge thing of what others feel about you and what kind of energy do they give you, and people's like whole lives is based on this yeah like this is what it's all about.
• 39:37
  Toliy: Yeah, and the only way that they get this not through the process of actually learning and going about it that way is to try to buy their ways into these things, into these particular clubs, that society esteems, Do we naturally gravitate towards that stuff because it's quote unquote is perceived as easy?
• 39:56
  Toliy: No, no, we gravitate towards it because it's the stuff that's being marketed to.
• 40:03
  Eldar: You don't hear.
• 40:04
  Toliy: there isn't philosophy ads, there isn't as many philosophy influencers or like, for example, marketing influencers on these kinds of subjects or on like this kind of stuff.
• 40:15
  Toliy: Self, like mental health and like self-improvement, is only, has only started to become a little bit cool over the last what like 10 years yeah, and they still do it as a fad yeah, like, like this is only starting to be in, or like eating healthy yeah are you stupid man?
• 40:32
  Toliy: like you don't eat fast food.
• 40:33
  Toliy: Are you not cool?
• 40:33
  Toliy: Yeah, you know?
• 40:34
  Toliy: Yeah, like.
• 40:35
  Toliy: How many times like like, do you remember we're at that, um, that like smoothie place near, near our gym, and we we're waiting for our drinks and then these kids with archy haircuts walk in who are mad young, and I remember we had a conversation about this one time.
• 40:50
  Toliy: We were like, yeah, when we were young, we're going to Angelo's Pizza to get a bag of fries and slices.
• 40:54
  Toliy: These kids are getting fucking acai bowls and shit.
• 40:59
  Eldar: What the fuck's happening.
• 41:00
  Toliy: Ginger shots, young ass kids.
• 41:02
  Toliy: Okay, so marketing, you're saying they made it cool.
• 41:04
  Toliy: That's only starting to get cool.
• 41:06
  Toliy: Eating healthy or organic or like having good quality shit or like, yeah, like that.
• 41:11
  Toliy: We're only at the very, very, very beginning of of it and for most of existence, this was not cool.
• 41:18
  Toliy: This was like again, this was lame.
• 41:20
  Toliy: We're eating chinese food and greasy pizza and fries and fast food.
• 41:23
  Toliy: That's true.
• 41:24
  Toliy: This is what you eat when you're a kid.
• 41:26
  Toliy: This is what everybody's having that's right.
• 41:28
  Toliy: No one's going to get ginger shots and acai bowls, you know this is true, yeah, even that you know, yeah, so the yogurt bowls yeah, it feels that it's the easy thing, but it's not easy because you have to put in so much effort and so much time to renew this very fleeting, low efficiency.
• 41:45
  Toliy: Uh, like, um, resource, right, we're.
• 41:49
  Toliy: Actually.
• 41:49
  Toliy: The much easier thing is to actually learn a craft or learn something or like have something sustainable that is like extremely efficient because it lasts forever.
• 41:58
  Toliy: Yeah, right, because it's something that you can constantly tap into but making enough money to like sustain crazy expensive habits or something like that that's pretty damn hard like you gotta work pretty damn hard, yeah, just to sustain that, because it gets like one mile per second of like fuel.
• 42:15
  Toliy: You know, yeah, um, but this is what's being pushed in society.
• 42:20
  Toliy: This is what's marketed to.
• 42:22
  Toliy: This is exactly why the hook is in there and this is what's being pushed in society.
• 42:23
  Toliy: This is what's marketed to.
• 42:24
  Toliy: This is exactly why the hook is in there and this is exactly why people gravitate more to it.
• 42:28
  Toliy: You do not see philosophy is cool or stuff like that marketing.
• 42:31
  Toliy: You do not see any of this kind of like whoa, what the social media influencers do?
• 42:36
  Toliy: You know about this?
• 42:37
  Toliy: You know?
• 42:39
  Eldar: Yeah, I don't.
• 42:40
  Mike: I know one, you know Dennis Rock.
• 42:46
  Toliy: Harris?
• 42:46
  Toliy: Yeah, I don't, I know one, you know dennis rocks, harris harris.
• 42:48
  Toliy: You start to see a little bit of it, of some celebrities finding stuff cool, like, for example, like like joe rogan, for example.
• 42:52
  Toliy: Yeah, he might be like a cool person and then maybe he started talking about some interesting topics and people then find those things interesting because they find jo Rogan cool.
• 43:02
  Toliy: Yeah, he's the for example, or like yeah, he, he's the hook there Cause he's from fighting and yeah, yeah.
• 43:07
  Toliy: And like he's like a normal factor Right and like this kind of shit, right, like, yeah, right, um, but name me some of these extremely like wealthy or whoever influencers that you know that are in philosophy and in stuff like that.
• 43:24
  Toliy: Like it doesn't exist really.
• 43:26
  Toliy: Yeah, so that that is.
• 43:29
  Toliy: That is exactly why the masses don't go to the masses.
• 43:32
  Toliy: Like the masses go towards whatever.
• 43:36
  Toliy: Whoever's buying the marketing money to push whatever they want to push, whatever is in those.
• 43:40
  Toliy: When you go on x or facebook or instagram, who's ever buying those ads and who's ever buying the tv time and all that?
• 43:46
  Toliy: this is what's being pushed okay when did you see like specials and serious about like it's?
• 43:53
  Eldar: being pushed because of our gender, because they don't know any better.
• 43:55
  Toliy: Anyway, well, they don't know any better because of what they're kind of like they grew up into yeah, they're grown up into they're, they're like, um, their offsprings of offsprings, of offsprings that continue the same cycle, type of thing.
• 44:11
  Toliy: Yeah, you know when did you see series about like how are fooders made, like where crops come from?
• 44:17
  Toliy: You know, like, don't give us a fuck about that kind of stuff forever.
• 44:21
  Toliy: Now.
• 44:21
  Toliy: It's all about that finding out the truth about things you know of, like you know so you're saying we almost like as soon as we were born.
• 44:28
  Toliy: We were kind of on the backlog then well, yeah, 100, because we're taught by people that only know so much.
• 44:33
  Toliy: Yeah, um right, like your parents don't like give birth to you and say like hey, hey, little charlie, we'll, we'll see you in five years, we're going to give you away to some enlightened masters.
• 44:46
  Toliy: We'll pick you up in five years, see you soon.
• 44:49
  Toliy: And then the kids are given away to enlightened masters for raising.
• 44:57
  Eldar: So what are we saying?
• 44:57
  Eldar: Mike Seems like you have a problem with this.
• 45:00
  Eldar: How'd you guess?
• 45:01
  Mike: Mike, seems like you have a problem with this.
• 45:02
  Mike: How'd you guess?
• 45:05
  Mike: I mean, yeah, I agree, that's definitely the cycle that's happening, but, yeah, is this a new phenomenon?
• 45:16
  Eldar: No, no, no, I don't think so.
• 45:18
  Mike: It's passed on from generation to generation no no, but I'm saying like, is this any different from the shit that let's even say Socrates was dealing with the same problems?
• 45:26
  Mike: Yeah, probably not.
• 45:27
  Eldar: Yeah, I think that you know those who think.
• 45:30
  Eldar: They try to raise awareness on those who don't think and ask questions right In order to get to the bottom of what's actually going on so you can get to the bottom of the truth and then hopefully you can be happy.
• 45:49
  Toliy: Yeah, I think a lot of it stems from the human mind.
• 45:51
  Toliy: I think it's very moldable, is one thing Impressionable, very impressionable, and I think that it can be used to think for yourself and it can be used to just follow as well.
• 46:08
  Toliy: Yeah, it's, it's equipped to do both.
• 46:09
  Toliy: Yeah, and I think from a young age, I think you are not promoted to think for yourself.
• 46:14
  Eldar: Therefore, you're, you're, you're more promoted to follow yeah, but the thing is you got to be careful with the word promoted, because again, promotion almost feels like a deliberate attempt versus like.
• 46:27
  Eldar: Oh, like you said, this ignorance has been passed on generation to generation.
• 46:32
  Eldar: Therefore, like our parents didn't know any better, it's not like they're promoting it, right, they don't know any better.
• 46:36
  Eldar: So therefore they're just kind of like hey, I want you to be a doctor or a lawyer.
• 46:39
  Eldar: It's not because they're wishing you to not be.
• 46:42
  Eldar: Well, you know what I mean.
• 46:43
  Eldar: It's because they have bought into the system and that's what they've been preached to and stuff like that.
• 46:48
  Toliy: Now they want to pass that on as well, no sure.
• 46:50
  Toliy: But, that is what's happening.
• 46:52
  Toliy: It's not.
• 46:52
  Toliy: You're not promoted from a young age to think for yourself or use your mind critically, which is why like critical thinking is extremely hard to combine.
• 47:02
  Toliy: It's very like a very like like you.
• 47:06
  Toliy: You rarely see people who can actually critically think because for most of your life you don't actually do that or need to do that or feel like the need to you, just you just follow others.
• 47:18
  Mike: But uh, yeah, I also think, like what you were saying earlier about the, the kids who are eating the acai balls and ginger shots with the Archie haircuts.
• 47:24
  Mike: I don't know, I'm not sure if that's good either, because those people they're just doing shit because it's cool and it happens to be fucking.
• 47:33
  Mike: Let's just call it good for you.
• 47:34
  Mike: Yeah, just because today philosophy is cool and all the podcast is doing it, yeah, doesn't mean that yeah, until you have a belief system on it which is actually rooted in a lot of understanding, research, thought.
• 47:45
  Mike: Question you're just going to be an Archie fucking buying McDonald's or you're going to be an Archie buying fucking acai bowls?
• 47:51
  Mike: It's like you're going to still be an Archie.
• 47:53
  Mike: You're still going to be an idiot.
• 47:54
  Mike: Well, yeah, you're still going to be like, but Archie's not an idiot.
• 47:57
  Mike: Archie's not an idiot, but like Archie haircut.
• 47:59
  Mike: Yeah, yeah, archie's with the haircut.
• 48:01
  Mike: That's what I meant.
• 48:02
  Mike: You're just going to be following whatever, each way you get in sway.
• 48:05
  Mike: It's like you can't accidentally become a philosopher.
• 48:08
  Eldar: You might not even like the damn acai balls, but because everybody else is eating them.
• 48:11
  Toliy: No, I just think that, like if you had more of a promotion of like, for sure, but I think that that's what goes in those kinds of more like.
• 48:24
  Toliy: If that was being spread more, in particular like environments over what's being spread now, you would have more kids off the bat finding this type of stuff cool than not cool.
• 48:38
  Mike: Do you like the taste of the acai bowl better than the bacon, mcgag and cheese you had this morning, or no Do?
• 48:44
  Toliy: I like the taste of it.
• 48:45
  Mike: Would you prefer to eat acai every morning or would you prefer to eat a nice tasting bacon, egg and cheese, salt, pepper, ketchup, fucking bagel?
• 48:55
  Eldar: You know what?
• 48:57
  Mike: No, he'd prefer the acai bowl, of course, oh okay.
• 48:59
  Mike: Well then, I'm sorry, I'll take it back.
• 49:01
  Toliy: No, no, no.
• 49:02
  Toliy: I definitely prefer the bacon, egg and cheese, oh yeah, for sure.
• 49:06
  Mike: But but Once in a while a cold fruit platter no but A colon cleanse.
• 49:14
  Toliy: No, but I'll tell you one thing Like, if you have actual shit to do and if you do have a particular focus, you do start to connect, like um, the pain and suffering that having something like that causes you towards, like, what you actually want to do sticking away from you.
• 49:33
  Toliy: Yeah yeah, and this happened to me.
• 49:34
  Toliy: Like, uh, when we ate that fucking fat ass fish sandwich with the scallion cream cheese and like the lox Fucking ate that whole thing, you ate the whole thing.
• 49:45
  Toliy: That's just humongous.
• 49:46
  Toliy: I had so much shit to do.
• 49:47
  Toliy: Yeah, I'm to work and I'm like yo, like I'm so excited for the day you killed it.
• 49:53
  Toliy: Now I can't do anything, so I need to figure out what to do to get rid of this feeling.
• 49:57
  Toliy: I guess.
• 49:57
  Eldar: Yeah, so you pound two pounds of coffee.
• 50:00
  Toliy: You know.
• 50:00
  Toliy: So yeah, I probably had a good amount of caffeine, bull through it and try to bull through it.
• 50:07
  Toliy: It's like a double.
• 50:08
  Toliy: You felt so bad afterwards I was like, no, yeah, I like that that day.
• 50:13
  Toliy: Like, yeah, I would have much rather had um, like looking back at it, which is obviously much easier.
• 50:21
  Toliy: Like looking back at it, which is obviously much easier.
• 50:23
  Toliy: But I'd much rather have the acai bowl felt great and been able to do what I actually want it to do.
• 50:29
  Toliy: But the key is obviously to not only just reflect on things.
• 50:33
  Toliy: It's to connect that into the actual like moment and be able to be conscious and think about it.
• 50:37
  Toliy: For sure.
• 50:38
  Mike: Before acting.
• 50:39
  Mike: But but I agree, that's like one side of what you're saying.
• 50:49
  Mike: Right, if you could eat the bacon, egg and cheese and feel the same way, as you know, I'm serious if you would, if you can eat those two right like, but one is going to give you health problems.
• 50:55
  Mike: You're not going to be like, you know, but they both taste the same, but in the moment it's the same thing, like the print.
• 51:00
  Mike: The point here is not no, but they're not the same thing at all no, they're not creating a fake scenario no, I know that, but I'm saying, I'm asking you to entertain it.
• 51:10
  Eldar: No, no, I know, but like it's easy to understand of course everybody would say yes, yeah, but come on.
• 51:14
  Eldar: But if there's no health.
• 51:15
  Eldar: Your health, like you know detriments from eating that.
• 51:18
  Mike: No but not.
• 51:19
  Mike: There's also instant health, right?
• 51:20
  Mike: When you're 20, it't matter.
• 51:21
  Mike: When you're fucking 20 years old, you can eat fucking bacon, egg and cheese.
• 51:24
  Mike: I see it doesn't matter.
• 51:25
  Toliy: Yeah, right, but I think a lot of times people don't think it doesn't matter when you actually have to do things.
• 51:30
  Eldar: I think at any age you just at those young ages, it may feel like it doesn't matter and if you do have something to do, you know what you're doing.
• 51:42
  Eldar: When you're young, you don't eat, you don't eat you forget to eat this is a phenomena where you will see, you observe the kids that are hanging out with other friends or whatever they forget to eat.
• 51:56
  Eldar: They have to be reminded.
• 51:57
  Eldar: They have to sit down, like you have to sit down and eat right now or you're not going anywhere.
• 52:00
  Eldar: Yeah, this is a normal phenomenon For most kids.
• 52:03
  Eldar: He always being close to her, he liked tomatoes when he was young.
• 52:06
  Eldar: He just all he did is eat tomatoes.
• 52:07
  Eldar: He became a tomato.
• 52:08
  Toliy: Oomy dorky.
• 52:10
  Eldar: Yeah, yeah, okay.
• 52:12
  Eldar: I mean, did we solve this problem or this equation?
• 52:19
  Mike: I mean, I think we understood it a little bit.
• 52:20
  Mike: Did we understood it a little?
• 52:21
  Eldar: bit, do we understand it a little bit better?
• 52:22
  Mike: I think I understood something, yeah yeah, where it's like.
• 52:25
  Eldar: This is a clear path to how we can actually have, maybe, sustained happiness and not the pitfalls that we've, you know, create ourselves against, you know, attachments that we form and then those realities that we have to live out in order to learn the lesson so we can get back on track I think that's asking for a lot, but I think understanding it, how it kind of works, I think that's like well, the whole point of trying to understand how it works is to raise awareness about the pains that we currently have.
• 52:58
  Eldar: Like totally said, my example is like look, I had a nice day planned out.
• 53:03
  Eldar: I needed to focus.
• 53:04
  Eldar: And then he went and ham-hogged himself into a very specific pleasure in that moment and fucked everything up.
• 53:12
  Eldar: If you're raising this awareness long enough for himself, sooner or later he'll figure it out, it'll click and he'll know what to do.
• 53:17
  Eldar: It's not going to be overnight, obviously, but the more we raise awareness about these types of things, the more we can prevent these pitfalls.
• 53:29
  Eldar: You know, but a lot of times we do form attachments.
• 53:32
  Eldar: A lot of times we do have pre-existing conditions that the society sold us on, for example right that we have to live out because we have formed an attachment, built an identity that is rooted, probably, in pride and ego.
• 53:47
  Eldar: That is now causing us a very specific trajectory and a timeline that we have to live out before we can graduate from it.
• 53:59
  Eldar: Let go and stop sinning on that trajectory, but in the meantime we have to eat shit.
• 54:01
  Eldar: It let go, you know, and stop sinning on that trajectory.
• 54:03
  Eldar: But in the meantime we have to eat shit.
• 54:06
  Eldar: Because if you already got the wheels in motion right, if you already set out certain desires out there into the universe for yourself, these are like mini prisons that you put yourself into.
• 54:18
  Eldar: And then each prison right, each attachment, each desire, has a sentence time, you know.
• 54:29
  Eldar: Some of it is couple months, some of it years, some of it decades.
• 54:33
  Eldar: All depends on what you fucking set out.
• 54:36
  Eldar: You know, what you attach yourself to, which is pretty crazy, but nothing normal.
• 54:46
  Eldar: Yeah, gotta be careful if you don't want to fucking eat shit for long periods of time, you know, unless you prefer that kind of thing, be a shit eater, yeah, yeah, also like what what you're talking about exists in in your world.
• 55:08
  Eldar: It doesn't actually exist in those people's worlds no, I think it does exist, it's just that nobody's aware of it yeah, they're, they're just living out whatever they're living out but, that sentence or what you're signing up for, like you're only able to see that that's what I'm saying, that you can if, if you set most of these people down and talk to them about what's going on and what are some of their attachments.
• 55:26
  Eldar: I mean, we had this right when we had the model chick come over here right, and we kind of probed her about certain actions, behaviors, attachments that she does have right, talking about love and relationships, we clearly saw that she's nowhere near to having a healthy relationship already for one.
• 55:42
  Eldar: You know what I mean, based on some of the things that she responded to.
• 55:45
  Eldar: We see maybe anger, right, some resentment, attachment, all those things that are still in her.
• 55:55
  Toliy: Ego.
• 55:56
  Eldar: Ego.
• 55:56
  Eldar: Right, those are very dominant features that you still have and therefore, you still need to live out some of these mistakes that are me.
• 56:06
  Eldar: You can lay out right out for her you're going to live this out.
• 56:09
  Eldar: You're going to live that out.
• 56:10
  Eldar: This is what's going to happen to you somebody's going to cheat on you, somebody's going to violate you, somebody's going to break up with you, somebody's going to ghost you and all this other stuff.
• 56:16
  Eldar: We can foresee that like this, based on the things that you're experiencing.
• 56:21
  Eldar: You know and I think that's for everything if you really pay attention, if you really pay attention, you can really foresee a lot of this nonsense that we as people are like fucking tumbling in.
• 56:40
  Eldar: You know what I mean?
• 56:41
  Eldar: All right, so, yeah, so the equation works.
• 56:53
  Eldar: So what are our final thoughts then?
• 56:55
  Eldar: Around this equation unless you guys want to add something else to it or some other things that came up you know this brings me my final thoughts on this.
• 57:04
  Eldar: This brings me a level of peace Again.
• 57:06
  Eldar: It's reminding me that there is justice, right, that is constantly playing out for me at least right On my front.
• 57:14
  Eldar: well, if I'm doing something wrong, there's going to be justice.
• 57:17
  Eldar: You know what I mean.
• 57:18
  Eldar: And I'm going to find my way, amongst this nonsense that sometimes I'm creating for myself, based on, if I continue to reason, continue to think and find my way.
• 57:27
  Eldar: You know, it brings me a certain level of peace.
• 57:29
  Eldar: These things are set up in a very specific way and our minds and our lives are, you know, testament to all these things, that they do work, they exist and that if we align ourselves up with the truth right, we can find our way to receive again, going back to those things that we talked about the sprinkles right From our good actions, truthful, you know, paths that we take on, you know.
• 58:03
  Eldar: So that's how I feel about this topic.
• 58:05
  Eldar: It gives me a reassurance that that which I'm thinking about, that that what I'm doing is, has, like, a good thing behind it you know, and you know, I receive the gifts from it based on how I act and based on how I react to something.
• 58:24
  Toliy: Yeah, I think, I think that you have to.
• 58:25
  Toliy: If you want to live a good life, you have to invest yourself and have a heavy focus towards only things that are timeless, you know, but they're forever.
• 58:36
  Toliy: They're, they're like, uh, they're in style forever.
• 58:40
  Toliy: You know, when you look at the clothing brands, every season, every year, new shit comes out new shit.
• 58:46
  Toliy: Last year should have been half off.
• 58:51
  Toliy: You know, you know, but if you the the the things that you're talking about, one, no one can take away those things from you.
• 59:01
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 59:01
  Toliy: Right, yeah, because they're yours forever and and they're like they're going to they.
• 59:06
  Toliy: They exist in any, in any, in anything that you do, no matter what it's not controlled by you know, designer, or controlled by by by what others think about it.
• 59:17
  Toliy: Yeah, that that exists forever.
• 59:18
  Toliy: It's not connected to those things.
• 59:25
  Toliy: No, it's not connected to those things.
• 59:26
  Toliy: Yeah, so you have a forever, like well, to tap into on on all of these things.
• 59:29
  Toliy: So I think that if it's not timeless, then then, like um, I think if you want to live a good life, it it can't be your focus, because all of the other things, they have a very short shelf life.
• 59:44
  Eldar: So that's a very interesting benchmark that he put it against.
• 59:47
  Eldar: He's right, mm-hmm, yeah, no, I agree, he's right.
• 59:51
  Eldar: Yeah, it's like classical music.
• 59:53
  Eldar: Yeah, it's a classic.
• 59:55
  Toliy: It's a classic, it's going to be listened to, for things are going to be listened to forever, yeah.
• 59:59
  Toliy: And then there's things that were hot'm dead, never here again.
• 1:00:02
  Eldar: yeah, you know, yeah yeah, I mean yeah with music, yeah, some music.
• 1:00:06
  Eldar: You put on the thing.
• 1:00:07
  Eldar: You're like, oh shit, I'm so good, so good, and then like a week later I'm like y'all play this shit out, it's just dead I don't want to hear it no more.
• 1:00:14
  Mike: It's a good example too, mike well, yeah, I mean the whole conversation towards the end, it started making me think about some things that I want.
• 1:00:24
  Mike: Obviously, one thing I want to get in a relationship and fall in love, and obviously I was thinking, like, why hasn't this happened to me?
• 1:00:31
  Mike: So I had to think back to my own words, right, like why hasn't this come to my life?
• 1:00:35
  Mike: And it made me think what image or what celebrity am I trying to impersonate in this specific field, that I put this curse upon myself, right, self-inflicted kind of thing where I feel like I need to be like that person, or I need a person that has like these images, right, that I created about myself and about a potential partner Yeti, you got a damn mind, yes, I am.
• 1:01:00
  Mike: And it made me think to, obviously, to evaluate those images that I created about myself and those images I created about myself for for a future partner.
• 1:01:10
  Mike: Yeah, so, and I think it's a interesting place, I guess I I mean, I maybe said this before in a different way, but now it's I guess sometimes you have to, like you know, repeat it, but it's coming home a little bit more right well, it's now.
• 1:01:24
  Mike: It's like it's gonna make me look more to see, like, okay, where am I living out this paradox?
• 1:01:31
  Mike: Because to me, the paradox is actually sounds like a fraudulent behavior.
• 1:01:34
  Mike: If there's a paradox that needs to exist or that's existing, then there's some kind of fraudulent identity within me.
• 1:01:40
  Mike: Right, there's disconnect between who I would like to be and going forward, the way I'd like to live, versus the these things that I dogmas, whatever that I created for myself at some point a long while ago.
• 1:01:52
  Mike: Yeah, and that's what caused that paradox, the way I'm understanding it.
• 1:01:56
  Mike: So now I'd like to see what did I create for myself?
• 1:01:59
  Mike: Like, oh, maybe I want a certain type of wife that looks a certain type of way, whatever.
• 1:02:03
  Mike: Or I want to look a certain type of way, right?
• 1:02:05
  Mike: Yeah, or I want to make a certain type of money, I live in a certain type of house or whatever nonsense that I put on myself.
• 1:02:11
  Mike: Yeah, now I have to I mean obviously re-evaluate it 100%.
• 1:02:18
  Eldar: But also it Double check.
• 1:02:19
  Eldar: Yeah, double check, because they might actually not be serving you.
• 1:02:21
  Eldar: You might be actually playing out a very specific story that revolves around some lessons, and maybe we can expedite those lessons if you identify those attachments.
• 1:02:30
  Eldar: Yeah, correct, I mean, we did.
• 1:02:32
  Mike: I mean yeah, we've tried this thing that I'm talking about, obviously, but it's now, I guess, talking about it again.
• 1:02:38
  Mike: It looks like the same thing, but it's also still from a different, like perspective, I guess.
• 1:02:42
  Mike: To me, yeah, you know, looking at it a different way, from a different view all right, yeah, good, so it was helpful oh yeah, yeah, it was helpful.
• 1:02:50
  Eldar: Yeah, okay, yeah, all right anything else, this is very I think this is an important topic again, you know, when it comes to happiness, finding yourself, and you know and not and not shooting in the wrong direction with a lot of the stuff that we do.
• 1:03:06
  Eldar: Yeah, you know we can actually.
• 1:03:10
  Eldar: You know, based on what we talked about, if properly examined, we can actually get exactly what we want out of life.
• 1:03:16
  Eldar: You know we can be happy, you know we can be fulfilled, you know.
• 1:03:23
  Eldar: But you know, we can be fulfilled.
• 1:03:23
  Eldar: Mm-hmm, you know, but you know, we're not going to use those fucking cliche, fucking words.
• 1:03:28
  Eldar: It's like, oh, everybody deserves happiness, everybody deserves love, mm-hmm, the truth is not.
• 1:03:35
  Eldar: That's not true.
• 1:03:35
  Eldar: Yeah, I think we can say, maybe everyone has the potential, right, but a lot of that potential is unrealized in the moment.
• 1:03:44
  Eldar: What you actually are realizing is the truth of the attachments and things that you set yourself out for.
• 1:03:52
  Eldar: Right, if you have this attachment and it's incorrect, it's not rooted in truth, right, you're going to get exactly what you deserve, because life is that.
• 1:04:00
  Eldar: It's justice.
• 1:04:01
  Eldar: There's justice in the world, right, not this external world, but internal world of how things play out and how they're supposed to.
• 1:04:09
  Eldar: They're all to play out, they're going to play out.
• 1:04:11
  Toliy: Yeah, like I feel like when we talk about falling in love or like I guess, like wanting to like, I feel like it's a hard thing to like if someone says that like yeah, I want to fall in love, for example, you know like I feel like it'd be difficult to explain yourself as to like what that means.
• 1:04:31
  Toliy: What, what, what does that mean?
• 1:04:33
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 1:04:33
  Toliy: Right, yeah, and like when I think about it, now, the only the only way that it like, at least how I like, like, I'm like envisioning it right, is that like what that actually means?
• 1:04:48
  Toliy: Is that like, um, I, I think you have to have two things.
• 1:04:50
  Toliy: You know, I'm listening.
• 1:04:51
  Toliy: I think you, um, you have to can share, like where, where you can, yes, so.
• 1:05:08
  Toliy: So one thing I feel like the word like love inherent in it, is the word share Like it's like sharing, like it's it's like a together, yeah, and it's like it's giving, it's not taking, right, it's like you're in a position where you could share something like share an overwhelming amount of truth in combination with being able to communicate it properly, okay, yeah, like when the sharing of something like when you have something so overwhelmingly good and then you have the ability to then communicate it in that way, 100%, that, to me, is like what I'm envisioning as like this is what it is and I'll build on that.
• 1:05:46
  Eldar: I'll build on exactly what you said.
• 1:05:47
  Eldar: To bring it home for Mike, everything he just said have the ability to have that unconditional right, timeless, timeless stuff, right, goodness, truth, love, whatever, right.
• 1:06:01
  Eldar: And then, because you have so much of it it's overflowing your own cup, you can now give that, share that with someone, bounce that off to someone, right, and that individual understands it, accepts it and has the ability to also give back.
• 1:06:18
  Eldar: So it's a mutual kind of right, because you're not in a relationship by yourself, right, the other person is also feeling the same things and they can also do this, right.
• 1:06:26
  Eldar: And if you have that flow of exchange, of what he's talking about giving, sharing, right, then that's like that's love and I think that's very well put.
• 1:06:38
  Eldar: Yeah, I think that you cannot, you know, try to define what loving is without sharing the word sharing and giving away but also taking back, because it's going to keep bouncing back and forth, because it's a relationship thing for each individual and everybody will give what they can, you know, in that type of relationship.
• 1:06:58
  Eldar: So, yeah, that's, I think that's well put, first time you said something good in a long time.
• 1:07:07
  Eldar: Yeah, okay, yeah, that's the equation.
• 1:07:14
  Eldar: Maybe we can show we haven't had a topic on love in a long time.
• 1:07:20
  Eldar: Maybe we can expand on this too and ask a question about, like, how do you get there Right?
• 1:07:31
  Eldar: How do you get to a point where you actually do feel that you have this overwhelming desire, let's just say, to actually give, because desire to give it's almost negates the wrongdoing of desires.
• 1:07:49
  Toliy: No, but I don't think that you can have like a like I.
• 1:07:52
  Toliy: I think again like a like the.
• 1:07:53
  Toliy: The act of giving is a byproduct of something else that you've done.
• 1:07:58
  Toliy: I don't know if you can have a desire, agree to give, that's what I'm saying, because it wouldn't make sense.
• 1:08:03
  Eldar: Yes, it's a contradiction.
• 1:08:05
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 1:08:05
  Toliy: It's a byproduct of you having an overwhelming amount.
• 1:08:08
  Toliy: Yes, like identifying that and then being able to properly like, communicate that Like.
• 1:08:17
  Toliy: And that can be done in like, anything, right, like, it's like, like, like, like, if I can do something, for example, right, yeah, but I can't figure out how to teach Harris to do it, yeah, you know.
• 1:08:29
  Toliy: Yeah, like.
• 1:08:30
  Toliy: There's something else I need to learn then, for example, correct, yeah, to be like Competent, completely fulfilled and and and competent, like in that kind of thing.
• 1:08:39
  Toliy: Correct, so it's like, it's like, it's, it's, um, it's like identifying the overwhelming amount of it.
• 1:08:45
  Toliy: But the communication is a big key because, like, being able to like, like, tell somebody else in a way where they can understand, then you can make them feel.
• 1:08:56
  Toliy: If you can make them understand and that they will feel, and when they feel, then they, I think they'll, they'll like that that connection have happened, the love, the love happens, the exchange of love back and forth does happen.
• 1:09:04
  Eldar: And when they feel, then they, I think they'll, they'll like, that connection happens, the love, the love happens, the exchange of love back and forth does happen, and it's like now you stand on the same page, you become, you become on the same page you stand on the same page.
• 1:09:15
  Eldar: Yeah, that's well put.
• 1:09:16
  Eldar: We can definitely talk about that more.
• 1:09:18
  Eldar: Okay, very good guys.
• 1:09:21
  Eldar: Thank you again.
• 1:09:22
  Eldar: This was great.