Latest / Got Any Cows? / 58. Using Feed Efficiency and Carcass Ultrasound to Identify Superior Beef Cattle

Transcript

58. Using Feed Efficiency and Carcass Ultrasound to Identify Superior Beef Cattle · Got Any Cows?

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Hey buddy, this is Seth Christensen.
0:03
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for tuning in.
0:04
SPEAKER_01: The Got Any Cows Podcast will take you to meet the people and see the cattle that will help you produce the best beef from your ranch.
0:13
SPEAKER_01: Let's hop in the truck and go see some cows.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: Well, I am here in College Station, Texas at the American Akeyushi Association Convention and joined today by Mike Kirby of Buck Mountain Ranch.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Mike, I appreciate you joining me here on the Garden Cows Podcast.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: You bet.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: You bet, absolutely.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Mike, if you would maybe give us a short intro on who you are and where you come from, please.
0:33
SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm Mike Kirby.
0:35
SPEAKER_03: I'm from Warsaw, Missouri, down in the Ozarks.
0:38
SPEAKER_03: Um we've been doing Wagyu for almost 20 years.
0:43
SPEAKER_03: We started off um with the blacks and uh the Reds were pretty tight back then.
0:49
SPEAKER_03: You just couldn't get the semen.
0:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
0:51
SPEAKER_03: You know, it was back when everything was locked down.
0:53
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
0:54
SPEAKER_03: And uh, but we were able to acquire some stuff out of Australia.
0:58
SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah.
0:59
SPEAKER_03: And um, we've kind of changed our business plan over the years, and now we're mostly Reds with with some blacks.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, okay.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: So, how did you first come in contact with Wagyu?
1:11
SPEAKER_01: Was your background in cattle prior to Wagyu or were you in another industry entirely?
1:14
SPEAKER_03: You know, um actually I had a a ranch that I was running a youth ranch for for at-risk kids.
1:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
1:22
SPEAKER_03: We would rescue horses and we had a faith-based counselor, yeah, and we would have these horses come in, we doctor them up, and the kids got to work with them, and it was a great program.
1:32
SPEAKER_03: Helped a lot of kids.
1:33
SPEAKER_03: A lot of kids from the inner city came out, and uh my counselor that was faith-based got married and moved away.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
1:40
SPEAKER_03: So it was hard because I wanted to keep it faith-based.
1:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and uh we turned our farm open to a lot of the churches in our area, and I'm from the Ozarks.
1:51
SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay, and uh our farm is really unique.
1:53
SPEAKER_03: We've got um live streams, we've got four lakes, and we've got Indian teepee mounds.
1:58
SPEAKER_03: So we find arrowheads everywhere.
2:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:00
SPEAKER_03: Um, but we found it um hard to get the churches to bring their kids out.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
2:06
SPEAKER_03: And uh so I had a client because during my day job, I'm a financial advisor.
2:11
SPEAKER_03: Okay, and uh he was terminally ill and wanted to buy a big ranch and start an Angus farm for his family.
2:20
SPEAKER_03: Okay, and so we went out and started doing farm tours and land tours, and one day we had lunch at a place um in Columbia, Missouri, and they had Wagyu.
2:32
SPEAKER_03: Okay, and I was familiar with it, but I mean, this is a long time ago.
2:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and so we had lunch, and I called the chef out and I asked him what about the cattle, yeah.
2:42
SPEAKER_03: And uh he told me how much he paid for the carcass, and I looked at my client and I'm like, we're not doing Angus.
2:48
SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
2:48
SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
2:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
2:49
SPEAKER_03: We're going to do Wagyu.
2:50
SPEAKER_03: And I searched everywhere.
2:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
2:53
SPEAKER_03: I mean, reds were almost impossible back then.
2:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: And you're saying it's about 20 years ago.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: It was early 2000s.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was okay.
2:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you just weren't going to buy reds.
3:00
SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
3:01
SPEAKER_03: Unless you were a member of the hard brand deal.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: Sure, yes.
3:04
SPEAKER_03: And so I bought some blacks and uh, well, actually, I I sourced some blacks for him and unfortunately passed away before we could put everything together.
3:13
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
3:14
SPEAKER_03: And I thought, well, I've got this farm, I lost my faith-based counselor, so I'm gonna buy those cattle.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's what started it.
3:22
SPEAKER_03: Okay, just like a lot of the breeders, it became an addiction.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: So you're talking, I mean, roughly 20 years ago, starting into the black wag you, not a whole lot of anything to do with the reds.
3:33
SPEAKER_01: Walk us through, I guess, in that time frame, as far as where you're it was so difficult to get a hold of the reds.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: At what point were you able to acquire any red genetics?
3:41
SPEAKER_01: And how did that come to be?
3:42
SPEAKER_03: I acquired some semen and uh I wanted to make some embryos with their cows.
3:47
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
3:47
SPEAKER_03: And they wouldn't do it because of the contract they were under.
3:50
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
3:50
SPEAKER_03: And I think everybody understands that.
3:52
SPEAKER_03: And so um, I finally got some embryos out of Australia, and that's where we got our first reds, and we still actually have one of those donor cows that's still alive, AR1.
4:03
SPEAKER_03: Yes, beautiful cow.
4:05
SPEAKER_03: Beautiful cow.
4:06
SPEAKER_03: Actually, we're getting ready to actually make some embryos with her.
4:08
SPEAKER_03: She's getting ready for an IVF session.
4:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:11
SPEAKER_03: And uh I served on the AWA board of directors a few years ago.
4:15
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
4:15
SPEAKER_03: And uh I think to me, I love both colors of the Wagyu breed.
4:21
SPEAKER_03: Um, and I don't want to make anybody mad, but the blacks become became pretty much the flavor of the month.
4:28
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
4:29
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, you know, that's not what I'm looking to do.
4:31
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
4:32
SPEAKER_03: You know, sure.
4:32
SPEAKER_03: And I looked at the reds and we had some reds.
4:36
SPEAKER_03: We were about 80% blacks and 20% reds, and I just like the reds.
4:41
SPEAKER_03: You know, and we were able to buy in all of the original semen, like a lot of people, and when the prices were crazy high.
4:49
SPEAKER_03: You know, Rooshaw was 25 grand a straw.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: Right.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: Right.
4:53
SPEAKER_03: And uh um, and you just hardly couldn't get it.
4:55
SPEAKER_03: But uh, we sat on that semen for a while and black started to get pretty finicky, and we're we decided it's time to do more and more reds.
5:04
SPEAKER_03: So now we're probably 80, 90 percent reds, and just some blacks, yeah, because we have got some good genetics.
5:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and I like the reds, yeah, you know.
5:12
SPEAKER_03: Um, nobody makes fun of my reds.
5:15
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes people drive by and go, what kind of dairy cow is that?
5:18
SPEAKER_03: On the blacks, yeah.
5:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um so yeah, we've got into the reds, and one of the problems I saw was there just really wasn't much data.
5:27
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
5:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, yeah, and uh I'm a big data person, you know, like a lot of people.
5:32
SPEAKER_03: I want to know from start to finish if we're spending 10 grand for a straw of semen or 25 grand back then for a straw of Rushaw, yeah, um, I gotta have the data.
5:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
5:42
SPEAKER_03: And the data was pretty inconsistent.
5:44
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
5:44
SPEAKER_03: You know, whether it was Australia, Akiushi, or American Wegu.
5:48
SPEAKER_03: Um, and what gosh, we didn't even get EPDs uh with the AWA until just what it seems like just a few years ago.
5:56
SPEAKER_03: I know it was longer than that.
5:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and so everything was if you had a certain bull, it was a ten thousand dollar animal, yeah, even if it had three legs.
6:04
SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
6:06
SPEAKER_03: That's that bull, so it's good.
6:07
SPEAKER_03: Yep, yeah and uh um so we were breeding pretty hard to uh the Akiyushi EPDs, and then they pulled down their their data and just kept them eternal.
6:18
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
6:18
SPEAKER_03: And that threw me for a loop.
6:20
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, wait a minute, I've been kind of breeding towards that data.
6:22
SPEAKER_03: Sure, sure.
6:23
SPEAKER_03: And uh, like everybody, um, but so we decided to get into a feed efficiency system.
6:30
SPEAKER_03: Okay, and um we started doing ultrasound scans over 15 years ago.
6:36
SPEAKER_03: And the one thing I want to put out on the ultrasound scans is I I think it's important that everybody that's gonna do those scans try to do it between in that 400-day average, that 13-month to 16-month of age.
6:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:49
SPEAKER_03: And what we do is we keep it in that um average for sure, but if we get a good scan, we'll follow those animals because we do two scans a year.
6:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we'll follow those animals all the way through.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, you bet.
7:02
SPEAKER_03: And uh um what two years ago, two and a half years ago, we worked with CLOC, which is um a feed efficiency system, and yes, we invested pretty heavily into that.
7:12
SPEAKER_03: And uh, we started our feed data, and it took us a while to kind of interpret that data.
7:17
SPEAKER_03: It was new to us, and uh, but we've ran about 200 head now through our feed data, and uh we've accumulated a lot of hard data.
7:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that's what I like to say.
7:28
SPEAKER_03: I think it's very hard data, it's not estimated numbers.
7:31
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
7:31
SPEAKER_03: We know what we have, it's independent.
7:34
SPEAKER_03: C Lock um does all of our feed efficiency data and um uh C Cup does our uh ultrasound data.
7:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and so there's no there's no finagle in numbers.
7:47
SPEAKER_03: Sure, sure.
7:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and uh so what we were looking for when we did this data is I believe most Wegu are gonna hit Prime.
7:56
SPEAKER_03: You know, give them enough time, give them enough grain, they're gonna hit Prime.
8:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but one of the drawbacks to Wagyu, and I love the breed, yeah, is it takes a long time and a lot of input cost.
8:08
SPEAKER_02: Sure, right.
8:09
SPEAKER_03: And I thought, well, there's data out there, some of it's not great, some of it's good, but I thought, well, the one thing that we really don't have in this breed is feed efficiency.
8:22
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
8:22
SPEAKER_03: And that to me is one of the most important data traits we can follow, you know, because if we can cut down our feed efficiency cost or our feed intake cost, we we've won the game.
8:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:33
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so we started that.
8:35
SPEAKER_03: And uh so with our goal is we want to find an animal that's gonna have a bigger ribeye and a higher IMF at a young age.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:46
SPEAKER_03: And what I mean by that is I'm looking for early maturing animals.
8:50
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
8:50
SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm not looking that for a 30-month on feed animal, right?
8:55
SPEAKER_03: I'm expecting that animal to go high prime.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if not higher.
8:58
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
8:59
SPEAKER_03: And so we're looking for animals that mature early because that is heritable information, and that does it more feed efficient, which is also uh heritable.
9:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:09
SPEAKER_03: Um, I saw that Australia this year or last year came out with a feed efficiency EPD, you know, or EBV, I think they do.
9:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, uh, which I think it's a good start, sure.
9:21
SPEAKER_03: You know, because that's something we're lacking.
9:23
SPEAKER_03: And unfortunately, it's so expensive to do that data.
9:26
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
9:26
SPEAKER_03: And uh, we looked around for a long time for um feedlots and stuff that did it, but you just can't get a you can't get in on it.
9:34
SPEAKER_03: Right.
9:34
SPEAKER_03: You know, they've that's all booked, so we we made the investment in it, and uh it opened our eyes.
9:40
SPEAKER_03: You know, we have animals that when I look at them, I'm like, that's a donor.
9:44
SPEAKER_03: And then when I look at the data, I'm like, that's not a donor.
9:48
SPEAKER_03: You know, yeah.
9:49
SPEAKER_03: So I'm like, wow, you know, for years it was that eye appeal and the genetics that I was looking at, and uh um when we started getting the data, we started to whittle down um what we really felt like was a donor animal.
10:03
SPEAKER_03: And uh and we run right now, we've got about 175 full bloods on our farm, and you've been out there, yeah, yeah.
10:10
SPEAKER_03: It's not that big of a farm to hold these amount of animals.
10:13
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
10:14
SPEAKER_03: Um, so we're trying to get that number back in shape, but it's amazing out of that 175, you know, I think there's probably 15% of those animals that I'm gonna really say, these are donors.
10:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, you know, you bet.
10:26
SPEAKER_03: You know, um, not that the other animals aren't good, but they're not what I'm gonna consider a donor.
10:32
SPEAKER_03: Sure, sure.
10:32
SPEAKER_03: And I've had people come out and they're like, I want to buy a donor animal.
10:37
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, well, this is this price, yes, and here's why.
10:40
SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
10:40
SPEAKER_03: This is this price, and here's why.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
10:43
SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah.
10:43
SPEAKER_03: So but for us, the data's been hard to share.
10:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
10:49
SPEAKER_03: You know, because it's it's kind of new for a lot of breeders.
10:52
SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
10:53
SPEAKER_03: And uh so we came out with something called power rankings.
10:56
SPEAKER_03: And we we use the kind of the same graphs before they came out with the helix or the helical or whatever um they call.
11:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's just the farther to the right, usually the better, unless it's birthing weight and you want it farther to the left.
11:09
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
11:09
SPEAKER_03: And so we went with that data.
11:11
SPEAKER_03: So with our animals, we collect the average daily gains, um, the feed conversion ratio, yep, and um residual feed intake.
11:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, to me, out of those numbers, the feed conversion is the most important, just so everybody understands that.
11:27
SPEAKER_03: Um the feed conversion is how much did you eat to grow that pound of gain?
11:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
11:34
SPEAKER_03: And so um we're looking for the animals, obviously, that eat less, right, but grow more.
11:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
11:40
SPEAKER_03: And uh we've had um a big batch of embryo siblings, and it's amazing they're they're out of the same batch, same everything, the difference of their data.
11:52
SPEAKER_03: Yes, I mean it's it's it's crazy how how how far that can be.
11:56
SPEAKER_02: Right.
11:57
SPEAKER_03: Um so we are we're working hard on educating people.
12:03
SPEAKER_03: Um, we share our data, you know.
12:06
SPEAKER_03: Um, that's something that you know I think that we've always done.
12:10
SPEAKER_03: You know, I I think you know, but we we host the longest running educational event in the United States that's not an association event.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: Right.
12:19
SPEAKER_03: We started off years ago and uh it was it started off as a passion for prime.
12:24
SPEAKER_03: We had two years of meetings before we worked with Mercedes and we started the first Passion for Prime sale.
12:30
SPEAKER_03: Okay, and so because I'm big in education, yeah, absolutely.
12:33
SPEAKER_03: You know, I've got a heart for it.
12:35
SPEAKER_03: Right.
12:35
SPEAKER_03: And so we've been running these educational events for for like 15 years.
12:40
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: Um what is the name of the event and where could someone find it in the coming year?
12:44
SPEAKER_03: We are changing the name this year to uh American Wege University.
12:49
SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay, awesome.
12:50
SPEAKER_03: Um, and we're working with Joe Pettit with the super sale and so October 9th, he has his elite heifer.
12:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, October 10th, he has his open consignment, it's gonna be in Nashville.
13:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we have our meeting on Friday.
13:02
SPEAKER_03: Gotcha free to come.
13:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:04
SPEAKER_03: Um, we've got probably six speakers all geared towards the Waggy Breed or something that I think can help somebody in the breed.
13:15
SPEAKER_03: I say every year, when you come here, I want to give you at least one or two nuggets through all of our speakers that you can take home today and implement into your program and make a difference.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: That's a lot of the same goal as this podcast in the sense of saying, hey, let's take some information, let's put it in front of people, and hopefully there's something somewhere in an experience from a guest or that we're able to share that's applicable that people can take home and put to work.
13:38
SPEAKER_03: I know I I think I emailed you or texted you the first time I saw it.
13:42
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm so busy with everything.
13:44
SPEAKER_03: And I'm I I said I sat down, I watched your podcast, I'm like, now I gotta keep watching it.
13:50
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, great.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, but I appreciate you taking the time to watch.
13:55
SPEAKER_03: Well, we need we need the information.
13:57
SPEAKER_03: Yes, you know, wagyu have been around for a while now, but we're still it's still a kind of an unknown breed.
14:03
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
14:04
SPEAKER_03: You know, a lot of times if you use the word Akiyushi, it was like saying Wagyu 20 years ago.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: Right, right, right.
14:09
SPEAKER_02: Nobody knows what it is.
14:10
SPEAKER_03: Yes, you know, so uh, but uh it's come a long way.
14:13
SPEAKER_03: Uh I think it's probably the most important breed in the United States because it's the breed that can bring uh a better quality of meat.
14:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, um, and a healthier cut of beef.
14:25
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
14:26
SPEAKER_03: Um, so I think that there's a place for Akiyushi or the Black Wagyu in everybody's program.
14:32
SPEAKER_03: I mean, unless you're registered this or registered that.
14:35
SPEAKER_03: Sure, sure.
14:36
SPEAKER_03: Um, it it's just gonna help.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: Well, and it's fun and unique to see that the work that you're doing in data collection because it does, it takes a lot of time, takes a lot of expense, just like you've mentioned.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: A lot.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: It's difficult to acquire.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: You know, I think everyone would love to have more data to base decisions on, but it does.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: It takes time and money to collect it.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: And so I appreciate the work that you're doing there.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: I think it's wonderful that you're gathering that data, sharing that data.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: I know that's helped you to identify some elite individuals.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: I've used your Rushaw Max bowl.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: Walk us through maybe a little bit of your experience in identifying him and and how it was that he rose to the top of those rankings.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: What did you find or how did you identify Rushaw Max programs?
15:16
SPEAKER_03: Well, our our contemporary groups, because we calve twice a year, like a lot of people.
15:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
15:21
SPEAKER_03: We're we do embryos and then we clean up.
15:24
SPEAKER_03: Um so our contemporary groups on our bulls and heifers, they range from 20 to 30 head per sex.
15:29
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
15:30
SPEAKER_03: And so what we do is is we compare the contemporary group against the contemporary group, and then I come back and I will compare the top of those contemporary groups with my overall.
15:42
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
15:43
SPEAKER_03: Because we keep a list, even if we sell an animal, yeah, I keep that data.
15:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you bet.
15:47
SPEAKER_03: And uh so I kind of get a feel for for what's going on.
15:51
SPEAKER_03: And I think it's important because my son told me one time, he goes, Dad, on this feed efficiency, if we threw a lot of grain in that bunk, we could get better data.
16:00
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
16:01
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, son, first and foremost, this data's for us because this is gonna help us make better breeding decisions.
16:08
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
16:08
SPEAKER_03: And if we want to market our animals, it can help the buyer understand the strong points and the weaknesses of every animal.
16:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:16
SPEAKER_03: And when we ran Rushaw Max through, um, he was number one in every category.
16:22
SPEAKER_03: I mean, not only in his contemporary group, but through everything.
16:25
SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, and uh, I mean, if you ever looked at his power rankings, I mean, it's just all the way to the right um on his average daily gains, his feed efficiency, and every data point that we collect will pass to the next generation.
16:41
SPEAKER_03: He's a big bull, he's a little bit bossy at the bunk, sure, but just like all of them.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:47
SPEAKER_03: But for people that don't understand how the feed efficiency works, um, I should back up and kind of explain that.
16:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, please do.
16:54
SPEAKER_03: Um, we put an EID tag in their ear, okay?
16:59
SPEAKER_03: And then when they go to eat, they go through a uh a head bar and there's a reader bar that starts reading their tag.
17:07
SPEAKER_03: Okay, they're on a bunk.
17:09
SPEAKER_03: That bunk holds 300 pounds of feed.
17:11
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
17:12
SPEAKER_03: That EID tag is sending a second uh signal every second.
17:16
SPEAKER_03: And so that goes back to the mothership.
17:18
SPEAKER_03: Yep, yep, and so it's measuring how many ounces of feed did that animal eat, how long did it eat?
17:25
SPEAKER_02: Right.
17:26
SPEAKER_03: And then every time it gets a drink, it's on a half scale.
17:30
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
17:30
SPEAKER_03: So we start off at the beginning of the test, we take their weights, so they have a base.
17:35
SPEAKER_03: Halfway through the test, we take another weight so they can compare it to the half weights, and at the ending of the test.
17:40
SPEAKER_03: And so it's a true average daily gain.
17:44
SPEAKER_03: It's not like I had, well, I got 10 bulls in here, I've been feeding 10 buckets a day.
17:49
SPEAKER_03: This one grew the most, so that's the most.
17:52
SPEAKER_03: Sure, okay.
17:52
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
17:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
17:53
SPEAKER_03: Um, so it really breaks it down, and it's so accurate.
17:57
SPEAKER_03: We'll get an email.
17:59
SPEAKER_03: Go check tag 54.
18:01
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, okay, so we go out and 54 is in the back of the corner.
18:05
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, oh wow.
18:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:07
SPEAKER_03: You know, we had one that it knows that he's gone off feed.
18:10
SPEAKER_03: It's not eaten, you know, and we had one, go check this tag number.
18:13
SPEAKER_03: And I'm looking and I'm like, there's nothing wrong with that animal.
18:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:16
SPEAKER_03: And the next day it started to have a watery eye.
18:18
SPEAKER_03: And we fight pink eye during the season, and sure enough, yeah, you know, that that feed system told us a day ahead of time that it was starting pink eye.
18:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:27
SPEAKER_03: So it's very accurate.
18:29
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so um we do that, we we start our feed efficiency at 17 months.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
18:35
SPEAKER_03: We do our ultrasounds in that um 400 day average.
18:38
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
18:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:39
SPEAKER_03: We are very dedicated to those dates.
18:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:43
SPEAKER_03: And that's what I'm hoping is for the people that want to do this data, ultrasound data is easy.
18:50
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
18:50
SPEAKER_03: It really is.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: As long as you can get the cattle in a shoot on a scale, the rest of the call in a guy to do it.
18:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there is an ultrasound association for everybody that's listened to your get online, it'll so it'll show you all the ultrasound texts in your state.
19:07
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
19:07
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
19:07
SPEAKER_03: Um, I can't tell you what the names are because they're in Japanese and I wouldn't under I I wouldn't be able to pronounce it anyway.
19:14
SPEAKER_03: But the ultrasound data now is not what it was 10 years ago.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
19:18
SPEAKER_03: I used to be um have people tell me, well, ultrasound data is not accurate.
19:22
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
19:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right, right.
19:23
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I don't know.
19:25
SPEAKER_03: You know, I I watched them do IVF and they can pick up the oversight.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
19:29
SPEAKER_03: You know, and I'm thinking if they can pick up an oversight with an ultrasound, yeah, they can pick up the IMF in a scan.
19:36
SPEAKER_03: And today's equipment is more accurate.
19:38
SPEAKER_03: And actually, the ultrasound association is trying to come up with a new unit for Wagyu to be able to pick that higher marbling up.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, you bet.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: You bet.
19:48
SPEAKER_03: So it's it's exciting.
19:49
SPEAKER_03: And uh, absolutely.
19:51
SPEAKER_03: And so if you want to do ultrasound, basically I'm I'm personally recommending that you do it between 13 and 16 months.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:58
SPEAKER_03: Look on the um association for ultrasound techs, find your tech.
20:02
SPEAKER_03: Um, it's simple.
20:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
20:04
SPEAKER_03: You know, they send it off to an independent lab.
20:06
SPEAKER_03: Right.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: Marcus, ultrasound practitioners, the cup lab.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
20:10
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
20:10
SPEAKER_03: And uh they they want to send your data straight to the associations.
20:14
SPEAKER_03: And I like that.
20:15
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
20:16
SPEAKER_03: But you gotta tell them, you gotta argue them.
20:18
SPEAKER_03: Well, look, I'm glad you sent that to the associations, but I want that data.
20:22
SPEAKER_02: Right, right, right.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: I want the raw data set as well.
20:24
SPEAKER_03: So give it to me because I need it for my my system.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
20:29
SPEAKER_03: And uh when we first had ultrasound data years ago, I sent it to the AWA and they're like, what do you want us to do with this?
20:36
SPEAKER_02: Right.
20:36
SPEAKER_02: Right.
20:37
SPEAKER_03: Well, it's ultrasound data.
20:38
SPEAKER_03: He goes, Well, we don't have a way to handle that.
20:40
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, well, now you do.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: Right.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: And like, no.
20:44
SPEAKER_03: And then we sent in, we sent in like 200 full bloods to them.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
20:48
SPEAKER_03: You know, so um, but now all the associations are taking that data.
20:52
SPEAKER_03: Um, so that's nice.
20:54
SPEAKER_03: That comes straight in from the lab, so there's no finagling of numbers.
20:57
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
20:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, yep, yep.
20:59
SPEAKER_03: So I I highly encourage this.
21:01
SPEAKER_03: And if you find a good animal, follow them through.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: Right, right, you know, yeah, yeah.
21:05
SPEAKER_03: And really see what that animal's doing.
21:07
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
21:08
SPEAKER_03: You know, yep.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's interesting you talk about ultrasound, and I I've I've had people float the same thing, say, well, you know, ultrasound's not accurate because the fat melting temperature point is so low, there's no way it can be seen on ultrasound.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: And what I tell those people, I said, look, I understand the theory, I understand the proposal of what you're saying, that yeah, maybe if if the fat melting point is lower than the animal's body temperature, then the fat would be sitting in a liquid state.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: So, in theory, I understand the theory here that, yeah, we we wouldn't see this fat.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: But I said, I have seen data sets, you know, showing north of a 90% correlation between the scan data and the hard kill data.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: I have seen those data sets.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: I have never seen a data set that says, oh, nope, they were not correlated.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: You know, that this ultrasound data was way off base because there was all of this invisible marbling that's being proposed.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: I said, I'll believe it when I see it.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: If somebody shows me hard data that says nope, ultrasound's no good, I'll believe you at that point.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: But until then it's it's a theory, you know, as as to why ultrasound wouldn't be working.
22:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
22:04
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's uh and sadly our data does not correlate to any association's data.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: Sure, right, right, right.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: Separate and distinct animals.
22:12
SPEAKER_03: Our best uh scan on a mature cow, okay, that it wasn't a 400 day, but it was one of the 400 day high marblers that we followed through.
22:20
SPEAKER_03: She had a 13.11, which is like I don't know how many more over the highest grade of prime.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: Long ways past prime, yep.
22:27
SPEAKER_03: But if you look at her EPDs, you wouldn't buy her, you wouldn't touch her because I mean there's no marbling on that.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: Right, yep.
22:34
SPEAKER_03: And so, I mean, we we never get that correlation with the estimated data at all.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, and that's the thing that I think is so unique about what you're doing and the data set you're collecting.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: Right now, people are they're starving for metrics to select by, you know, as far as like what what is a good one or what is a bad one or which ones will marble or which ones will gain or which ones are feed efficient, all these different things.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: And so it's needed, just providing another set of benchmarks, you know.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: And and I think that that what you're doing, and I would tell people, you know, both both pay attention to the data you're collecting, but I would encourage people to not only, it's not your job as an individual breeder to provide the data for everyone.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, I think everyone should follow your example.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: The more places we can get gathering more data, that's a positive thing.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, if we can learn, hey, in Mike's program under Mike's management, here's a bull that came to the top, right?
23:22
SPEAKER_01: And I think Lucha Max can be a beneficial bull in a series of other programs, right?
23:26
SPEAKER_01: And I would love to see more programs follow suit rather than say, hey, I'm gonna abdicate my responsibility for data collection to Mike or to Seth or to any other breeder, right?
23:36
SPEAKER_01: Any other breeder that may be doing that.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: I'd love to see more and more places take that time, invest those dollars and those hours into ultrasound, into, you know, even if it's something as simple as like, let's just do ultrasound or let's just do a game test.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: I'd love to see more feed efficiency testing.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: I think it's wonderful what you've done there.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: Like you mentioned, the barrier to entry is higher.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: It's a much more expensive, you know, thing to get involved in.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: But I would encourage people to take that on because the more data can be collected in more locations, the more of these elite outliers we can identify among different contemporaries, different sets of cattle.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: And that moves the breed at large forward.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: When we can say, hey, here's here's some unique individuals from a series of different places, series of different bloodlines, and those genetics can move between herds, you know, a semen purchase, an embryo purchase, a son, a daughter, to hopefully move the collective whole forward with some solid data.
24:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:26
SPEAKER_03: So that's why we came out with the power rankings.
24:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:29
SPEAKER_03: Let me let me try to show people, yeah, but still, I mean, we've had the power rankings for a couple years.
24:35
SPEAKER_03: I mean, tonight we had five lots and we had power rankings that didn't come up in the the presentation, but it was in the catalog.
24:42
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
24:43
SPEAKER_03: And uh um somebody told me a pioneer of somebody that slumped over in the saddle with arrows in their back.
24:49
SPEAKER_03: I kind of know that.
24:51
SPEAKER_03: Right.
24:52
SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think as time goes on, this is gonna be data that you need to have, you know, for the breed.
25:00
SPEAKER_03: Sure, you know, yeah.
25:01
SPEAKER_03: Um it'll it'll be good data.
25:03
SPEAKER_03: And uh um I think you've got a cow that is, in my opinion, one of the best cows in the breed.
25:10
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate that.
25:11
SPEAKER_03: And uh it's your 121 cow.
25:13
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
25:14
SPEAKER_03: And I mean, the the offspring that we've got from her are just off the charts, you know.
25:19
SPEAKER_03: And um, I was making a run on a some X14 over your 121 tonight.
25:24
SPEAKER_03: But it got so high, yeah, and I thought, well, if I buy these tonight, I'm gonna have to sleep in the barn.
25:31
SPEAKER_03: So I I'll stick with what I have.
25:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but yeah, definitely.
25:36
SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's just from hard data.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: Right, yeah, yeah.
25:39
SPEAKER_03: And so anybody that can uh acquire those that genetics, it's a good mix.
25:43
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, and you're able to go in and bid with confidence in that kind of a setting because you've seen with your 121 daughter, your 109e donor, you've seen those genetics can get it done.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then just you know, in in the case in point of that particular mating, in the Australian database, FX14 has come to the top per their metrics, right?
26:02
SPEAKER_01: Or per that system.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: And if 121 has proven herself under yours, that's a solid bet for you as a prospective buyer to say, hey, I can at least bid to this threshold because you've seen under under these two different data sets, hey, 121 has got some potential, so does FX14.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: I can say with confidence this is something I'd at least be interested in incorporating up to a threshold, right?
26:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm with you.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: You hate to go home and have to explain to the missus uh I went past where I meant to go.
26:26
SPEAKER_03: My best two ultrasound scans was full sisters to 121.
26:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
26:33
SPEAKER_03: Um, so she's a powerhouse, and I actually got an opportunity to uh flush her back when juries had her.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
26:42
SPEAKER_03: And uh so it was a good opportunity, and I've actually got one embryo left of that.
26:46
SPEAKER_03: We had two.
26:48
SPEAKER_03: I put one in December and it took.
26:49
SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
26:50
SPEAKER_03: Um, so we're getting ready to put one in in about a week and a half.
26:53
SPEAKER_03: Good, good.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: From that big Alcross.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: Big Alcross.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: So that's an old embryo.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: Well, and it's so neat to see I I love seeing those genetics go to work in programs that recognize and and can can leverage the full value of the potential there.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: You know, to understand, hey, that the these can help move a group forward, you know, whether that's in a son or in a daughter, and can do positive things.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: And I hope, just like you mentioned, there's so many differences among siblings, right?
27:18
SPEAKER_01: So I hope that there's among the group of siblings you have and or and or grand offspring, you say, hey, here's the very best one to carry that legacy forward, right?
27:26
SPEAKER_01: That outperformed its siblings because that's how we move them forward generation by generation, you know.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: And that's that and anyway, that's I think the the center of of all of what you're doing there is until you gather the data, we can't say, well, like well, they're all the exact same cross, so they are functionally equal until there is some kind of differentiator to say, hey, here's our one that ought to be in the steer pin, here's maybe the stud of the bunch or the donor of the bunch, and the rest are just cows.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
27:50
SPEAKER_01: Out out of the bunch, even though they're full siblings.
27:52
SPEAKER_03: So well, last year, out of everybody we scanned, I'm gonna let you guess what sire was the number one marbling animal, because I don't think you'll get it.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: So uh uh a foundation a foundation bowl or what is your ball?
28:06
SPEAKER_03: Foundation sire.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: Okay, foundation sire.
28:08
SPEAKER_03: Everybody says doesn't marble.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: Shigamaroo.
28:10
SPEAKER_03: What the other one?
28:11
SPEAKER_01: Tamaroon.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: Tamar Maroon.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: That can't be right.
28:16
SPEAKER_03: I'm going back to the data sheet from Sea Lock and I'm like, Right.
28:19
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
28:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:20
SPEAKER_03: You know, so I always tell people if you heard it on Facebook, you might want to go back and check your data.
28:27
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, Tamar Maru last year, out of all the scans, was number one.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
28:32
SPEAKER_03: And it's not a pitch, but we have a son of Tamaro, Tamstar.
28:35
SPEAKER_03: It was our number two highest marbler.
28:37
SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
28:38
SPEAKER_03: I like Tamaro for its length.
28:40
SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: The length, the size, the frame, and those kind of things.
28:43
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's got the big rib roll.
28:45
SPEAKER_03: And um, we had uh we had 53 bulls and one pen.
28:49
SPEAKER_03: They were all yearlings, and I would ask my son, who's that?
28:53
SPEAKER_03: And he's looking at the sheet, and I'm like, Well, that one's a tamaroo.
28:56
SPEAKER_03: Double check me.
28:57
SPEAKER_03: He goes, Yeah.
28:58
SPEAKER_03: I said, Well, that one's a tamaro.
28:59
SPEAKER_03: He goes, Well, how do you know?
29:00
SPEAKER_03: I said, Look how long it is.
29:01
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
29:02
SPEAKER_03: You know, but everybody thinks he won't marble, but uh I will share my data with you.
29:08
SPEAKER_03: Right.
29:08
SPEAKER_03: You know, and I don't have a dog in that fight.
29:10
SPEAKER_03: I was just surprised that he was our number one marbling bull last year, or the highest marbling bull.
29:17
SPEAKER_03: And I know that's got a lot to do with the dam.
29:19
SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
29:20
SPEAKER_02: Sure, you bet.
29:21
SPEAKER_03: You know, because it's I think it's 50-50, you know.
29:23
SPEAKER_03: So some people will test their bulls, test everything.
29:28
SPEAKER_03: You know, we everything that we put our bulls through, we put our heifers through.
29:32
SPEAKER_03: You know, um, so um, because it's it's it's a 50-50 input.
29:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and what's unique is like let's talk about Katsukari, just uh a bull.
29:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Katsukari is a ribeye maker, big ribeyes, and his marbling's about medium, okay.
29:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, ribeye, uh Red Emperor, for example, he can be a super ribeye, but also he can be a medium ribeye.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
29:57
SPEAKER_03: But when we looked at we've got five cows, we're flushing here in about a week, and we were looking, okay, that's got a very high IMF, not such a big ribeye.
30:08
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
30:08
SPEAKER_03: And so we're able to pick the bulls that we know, hey, that's got a better ribeye and a decent IMF.
30:15
SPEAKER_03: So now we are really able to zone in on our matings, yeah, and we are making animals that are better every generation.
30:25
SPEAKER_03: Um we've had two in that 400-day range that hit prime.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: Two of them.
30:31
SPEAKER_03: You know, and so when you have an animal that's 13, 14, 15 months of age that hit hits low prime with 11, 11 and a half inch ribeye, now we're talking.
30:40
SPEAKER_03: You know, because now you know you got a 14-month animal.
30:43
SPEAKER_03: All we need now is a little bit more weight, and that's it.
30:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:48
SPEAKER_03: And uh and I'm gonna do another plug for another bull that a lot of people don't look at very often, but Red Galaxy, he's a beast.
30:57
SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah, absolutely.
30:58
SPEAKER_03: He is a beast.
30:59
SPEAKER_02: Yep, yep.
30:59
SPEAKER_03: And uh, I know a lot of people don't like him, but I mean we throw him in the herd as much as we can.
31:04
SPEAKER_03: We love Red Galaxy.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: You bet.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: Well, and if I'm not mistaken, off the top of my head, I want to say Red Galaxy would be a full brother in blood to the dam of Rushaw Max.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: And so if you take a look at those pedigrees and the way they line up, exactly.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean we've had great luck with Red Galaxy as well, you know, and so it's one of those that you take a look at at yeah, just just from hearsay, someone might say, well, you know, because Tamil Maru is just for length, right?
31:29
SPEAKER_01: He can't marble, you know, or or red galaxy is just for muscle, because he has such a thick bowl, you know, he can't be for marbling, you know, or it couldn't be for some of these other traits.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: And and I think it does make people overlook so and or the fact that you know red red galaxy semen is comparatively cost effective, that he's not necessarily a bull selling for 25,000 a straw, for example.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: And and so people will overlook those individuals and say, well, that there couldn't be the value there, but it's just for lack of of hard data.
31:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, that's what it is, right?
31:55
SPEAKER_03: Right.
31:55
SPEAKER_03: You know, and I looked at the AWA, they have their sire list.
31:58
SPEAKER_03: I think it's a year old or two years old.
32:00
SPEAKER_03: And Red Galaxy's the top IMF bull.
32:04
SPEAKER_03: Yes, yep.
32:04
SPEAKER_03: And um X14 popped up.
32:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, because number two has always been weird, but I I watched I saw it one month and it was um who's the number two?
32:16
SPEAKER_03: Gosh, I'm gonna have to cut that.
32:18
SPEAKER_02: That's part of it.
32:19
SPEAKER_03: It's uh recital.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay, yep.
32:21
SPEAKER_03: It was number two, but then all of a sudden X14 was number two.
32:25
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, well, wait a minute, X14 wasn't even the in the top ten.
32:29
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
32:30
SPEAKER_03: And then the next time X14 is gone, not in the top ten, and recital's back in at number two, huh?
32:35
SPEAKER_03: So it's like see that data is just strange.
32:39
SPEAKER_02: Right, right, right, yeah.
32:40
SPEAKER_03: Um, so we bought some recital from you.
32:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
32:43
SPEAKER_03: And uh we've got a bunch of calves out of him calving um here in September.
32:49
SPEAKER_02: Good.
32:49
SPEAKER_03: So uh yeah, we're excited about it.
32:51
SPEAKER_03: And yeah, we did uh we've got one cow, Y38, that is a full embryo sib.
32:56
SPEAKER_03: It was the same embryo out of the Red Galaxy batch, so it's a full sister.
33:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I know people are gonna cringe when I say this, but we bred her back to Red Galaxy.
33:05
SPEAKER_03: Sure, double, yeah.
33:07
SPEAKER_03: Well, let's see what she does.
33:08
SPEAKER_03: And I saw her inbreeding, I'm like, well, that's a winner.
33:11
SPEAKER_03: Sure, yeah.
33:13
SPEAKER_03: I might have a record here, you know.
33:15
SPEAKER_03: But uh EPDs don't look great.
33:18
SPEAKER_03: You know, it's funny because you have uh uh identical Red Galaxy.
33:22
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so uh, but the truth is when we get to get them up old enough, yeah, you know, and um we bought a a herd, or not pretty much of a herd from another rancher.
33:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and we acquired um four X14s.
33:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and uh one of them is a full sib to Nikki, um, which has been a great bull for everybody.
33:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
33:43
SPEAKER_03: And uh her dad is good.
33:45
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so you know that's that's a plus.
33:48
SPEAKER_03: Um the three other heifers we haven't tested yet, they're not old enough, but sure this later this year they'll be into our system.
33:55
SPEAKER_03: So I'm excited to see if X14 is really worth the squeeze.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, yeah.
34:01
SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely, absolutely.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: Are there any other individual individuals that come to mind as far as being particularly good?
34:06
SPEAKER_01: We've talked about Rushaw Max, you know, came right to the front.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, Red Galaxy's done well on the female side, some of your 121 influenced cattle or 121s are, you know, yeah, and anything else that comes to mind as far as particular individuals, male or female, that have come to the front in any one of these metrics between gain, feed efficiency, IMF, or ribeye.
34:26
SPEAKER_03: You know, I think every animal that we've used has his strong points and his weak points.
34:31
SPEAKER_03: Sure, of course.
34:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
34:32
SPEAKER_03: So I I can't say there's one overall.
34:35
SPEAKER_03: I will tell you that every red galaxy we've ever done has been great.
34:40
SPEAKER_03: Um, we used to when we had a lot more blacks, we used to put red galaxy over them, and the meat was incredible.
34:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know.
34:47
SPEAKER_03: Um but uh I really think it it comes down to m using the strong points one animal to fill in the weak points of the other.
34:57
SPEAKER_02: Right, right, complimentary meat, yeah.
35:00
SPEAKER_03: And we would never know that, we would never be able to do that without the data we have.
35:05
SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah, absolutely.
35:07
SPEAKER_03: Just like everybody, I think we have some very good animals, but um, when I broke it down for this flush, I'm really looking at it and I'm thinking, there's five animals that I really want to reproduce.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:20
SPEAKER_03: Out of our not that I wouldn't do most of our hood herd, but those five animals, I'm like, that's what I want to build the the rest of this herd out with.
35:30
SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
35:31
SPEAKER_02: You bet, you bet.
35:32
SPEAKER_03: And it you know, it used to be eye appeal.
35:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
35:35
SPEAKER_02: Right, yeah, yeah.
35:36
SPEAKER_03: But uh it's it's a lot more than that.
35:39
SPEAKER_03: And I think that um we just need to share that data and get it out.
35:43
SPEAKER_02: You bet, you know, you bet.
35:44
SPEAKER_03: And that's kind of why we started that educational event.
35:47
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
35:47
SPEAKER_03: You know, we wanted to share data.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, you bet, you bet, absolutely.
35:51
SPEAKER_03: And kind of grow the breed.
35:52
SPEAKER_03: You know, Missouri is one of the largest memberships of the AWA.
35:56
SPEAKER_03: Oh, really?
35:57
SPEAKER_03: And it was because when we started The Passion for Prime, it was always in Missouri.
36:01
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
36:02
SPEAKER_03: And so we had so many people coming for that event from Missouri.
36:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it was either the second or third largest state in the country for for membership.
36:09
SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
36:10
SPEAKER_03: You know, I have I don't know the metrics on the Akeyushi Association.
36:13
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
36:13
SPEAKER_03: You know, like a lot of breeders, we're trying to register with all three associations and writing checks as fast as we can.
36:19
SPEAKER_03: Right.
36:20
SPEAKER_03: Right.
36:21
SPEAKER_03: To get them registered.
36:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
36:22
SPEAKER_03: Um, but uh, I think that will change in the future.
36:25
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
36:26
SPEAKER_03: You know, I think really the Reds, a lot of people want the AWA or the Australian, but it's really the Akiushi association that that if you're doing Reds, that you need to get your data in there.
36:36
SPEAKER_03: Right.
36:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because that's where your that's where your customers are.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: Well, and in that in that setting, your data is going head to head with other red Wagyu or Akiushi, as opposed to being compared to Black Wagyu, which that's one of the challenges, because I'm like you, I work with all three, all three databases with American Wagyu, Australian Wagyu, and up and American Akiushi.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: But in in two of the three, in the two Wagyu associations, they are taking our our red Wagyu data or Akuchi data, and it gets run head to head against it's technically a separate and distinct breed, you know, both both of Japanese origin, right?
37:08
SPEAKER_01: And both are Wagyu by definition in the sense they're of Japanese origin, but two separate and distinct breeds.
37:12
SPEAKER_01: Totally different.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: And so our red wagyu or Akiushi in the in the Wagyu databases get discounted as if they all were monstrously heavy at birth and none of them ever marbled, is is the default setting on all of the EPDs, you know, if you were to look at them that way.
37:26
SPEAKER_03: So and uh I think that we need to build that data.
37:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, because I think it's gonna help every breeder, you know, especially for the commercial buyers.
37:35
SPEAKER_03: You know, when we sell our bulls, I would say 90% of our bulls go to commercial breeders.
37:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
37:40
SPEAKER_03: You know, so and they want that data.
37:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, hey, you know, I can pick up my my Angus or my Charlet and I got all the data I want.
37:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, how come you don't have data?
37:50
SPEAKER_03: Right, right, right.
37:51
SPEAKER_03: And then you have to explain, well, new breed.
37:53
SPEAKER_03: Sure, sure.
37:54
SPEAKER_02: Yep, yep.
37:55
SPEAKER_03: And uh, but then again, the data that we collect is only as good as the data we implant or input into the meeting.
38:03
SPEAKER_02: Right.
38:03
SPEAKER_03: When when I was on the AW AWA board, we were just starting EPDs.
38:08
SPEAKER_03: It's when we first started it, and everybody's mad because we don't have EPDs, but when we started it, nobody wanted to submit their data.
38:16
SPEAKER_03: Right, right, right, but they're mad because we don't have the data, but it's like, well, if you don't submit data, we can't create data.
38:23
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
38:24
SPEAKER_03: So it's it's it's a little bit of a challenge.
38:27
SPEAKER_03: Oh, absolutely.
38:28
SPEAKER_03: If you're wanting to be a seed stock producer, and everybody's different, I think any way you run your ranch, if it's profitable, God bless you.
38:36
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
38:36
SPEAKER_03: If you're a meat person or you know, you're selling calves or whatever you're doing, if it works for you, do it.
38:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:43
SPEAKER_03: But um, if you want to be a seed stock producer, especially going forward, you're gonna have to collect the data.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think it's an interesting thing is as I look at the evolution of the breed, you know, or even in my short time in the breed, because you've been in it for decades.
38:58
SPEAKER_01: I've been in since 2018, would have been when I got involved.
39:01
SPEAKER_01: So the last eight years, less than a decade for me.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: And I've already, even in that short a time frame, I've seen it evolve from any given Akuchi is worth a pile.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: To then it was only if they were for a short moment there, if they were polled, they're worth a pile, and that's what everybody wanted, you know.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: And then the next thing after that was, well, they had to be dual or triple registered, and that was what everybody wanted.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: And then the next thing after that was, well, there has to be foundation bread or from really rare, valuable semen, and that's what everybody wanted.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: And and you know, each of those things, I guess, had had its moment in the sun.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: But I've always thought, you know, coming from an Angus background myself, just like you mentioned, there's always been actionable data saying, hey, that this is what works and this is what doesn't.
39:40
SPEAKER_01: And if someone's gonna come and invest their hard-earned dollars with me as a seed stock provider, it had better do what I said it was gonna do.
39:47
SPEAKER_01: You know, not like, well, the the pedigree said it should have been, or, you know, we think it should be alright, heard on on Facebook, you know, that this pedigree does whatever.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: We've got to be able to show, no, this is indeed what you'll get if you invest in these genetics.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: And I think everyone has as seed stock breeders, we've got to be willing to take on that personal responsibility.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: And that's been a common theme through several of my conversations we've had here at the Akiushi convention with several breeders that we've had here on the podcast, is saying, hey, we need to take personal responsibility for gathering data on our own herds because it is it is not, as I sit here or as any of us sit here at the association meetings, it is not the responsibility of the association as if that were some arbitrary human being or one individual like somewhere else.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: It is their job to provide us with data.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: Like we are the association.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
40:36
SPEAKER_01: Each of us individually have to feed that data set and to expect there to just be one provided and provided right now for free by someone else, and it's got to be accurate or it's their fault, frankly, it is shirking responsibility as a seed stock breeder.
40:50
SPEAKER_01: You know, I think each of us has got to be willing to put in that time, put in that money, put in that effort.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: Because it is, it's it's challenging, it's slow, it's cumbersome.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: And if you'd rather not do it, that's totally fine.
41:00
SPEAKER_01: But you're probably better off to be in selling beef or be in just selling commercial calves.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, if we're gonna sell seed stock as something that should create value for breeders further down that supply chain in the live calf space or in the beef space, I can't tell them to invest in my genetics unless I can say, hey, in our data set here, you know, in the data we've collected, this is what came to the top or bottom and all these different points of evaluation.
41:25
SPEAKER_01: Everything from birth weight to weaning weight to yearling weight, rate of gain, carcass ultrasound results, fertility, longevity, all anything we can measure, we can and should measure.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: You know, and then you can use that for comparative analysis and identify who needs to be beef, who needs to just be a cow, and the few that should go forward as a donor or a stuff.
41:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
41:45
SPEAKER_03: I mean, look at tonight at the convention sale, some high dollar animals test a pretty impressive sale.
41:50
SPEAKER_03: I was impressed with the the quality of the animals, yeah, and I was really impressed with the prices.
41:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:56
SPEAKER_03: But you know, a a lot of these breeders are gonna go back after spending 20 or 30 grand on a donor.
42:02
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
42:03
SPEAKER_03: And they're probably not gonna collect more data.
42:06
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
42:06
SPEAKER_03: You know, and if you're gonna if you're gonna invest two grand, much less twenty or thirty or plus, I I hope you get that data.
42:15
SPEAKER_03: You know, because to me, that's what's going to give you that twenty or thirty thousand, fifteen thousand dollar offspring is because you have data.
42:24
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
42:24
SPEAKER_03: And uh I there's a big breeder in the Reds, and uh he called me up and he goes, You're gonna make me do it, aren't you?
42:32
SPEAKER_03: I said, make you do what?
42:34
SPEAKER_03: He goes, get a feed efficiency system.
42:36
SPEAKER_03: And I said, Well, sir, yeah, I said, I'm not making you, yeah, but I think as time goes on and this information is uh more widely understood and seen, yeah, because even though we've been doing it the feed efficiency for a couple years and we've done ultrasound forever, yeah, um, it's still very few people know about it.
42:57
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
42:57
SPEAKER_03: You know, and and when you look at the power rankings, you know, if if I told you we had a uh two uh 2.3 average day of the gain or a 3.11, you'd understand, well, I'd rather have the three point one one pounds a day.
43:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:12
SPEAKER_03: But in reality, if you're taking a 17-month animal and you're just feeding it what I call a field ration, sure.
43:19
SPEAKER_03: Um three pounds a day plus is incredible.
43:22
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
43:23
SPEAKER_02: I mean it is right, yeah.
43:25
SPEAKER_03: If it was in the steer pin, I would be going, maybe you should be doing a little bit better.
43:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
43:29
SPEAKER_03: You know, and and we're very careful with that.
43:31
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I like a lot of people, we use protocol.
43:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:34
SPEAKER_03: Jimmy came out, we hired him as a consultant, and he made all of our rations.
43:38
SPEAKER_03: And right um, we've got a nutritionist from Purina that comes out and and kind of tells us, you know, use this many pounds per you know, pounds of weight.
43:49
SPEAKER_03: Um you know, when we got that, we had to buy a grinder, which is probably the best thing I did anyway.
43:54
SPEAKER_03: Sure, I'm sure.
43:55
SPEAKER_03: You know, because the less waste, yeah, um, better digest digestible.
43:59
SPEAKER_03: Um So uh we were happy with that.
44:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:03
SPEAKER_03: My CPA, when I bought all that equipment because it was expensive, and then the infrastructure to put it in, my CPA goes, Mike, you're 63.
44:11
SPEAKER_03: Uh what are you doing?
44:14
SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm like, hey, when I'm 83, if I want to do something, I'm gonna do it.
44:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
44:20
SPEAKER_03: You know, so uh yeah, I I I think this is I I think like most breeders, you get addicted to this.
44:26
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
44:27
SPEAKER_03: I mean, like when I was a kid and you know, I I collected beer cans, uh you know, and I was passionate.
44:32
SPEAKER_03: I could tell you about any beer can, you know, that was a long time ago.
44:35
SPEAKER_03: But now it's like you're trading baseball cards, you know, I'll trade you a Rushaw for some of you.
44:41
SPEAKER_03: You know, yeah, and uh and that's something like Earl Rowe, a good friend of ours.
44:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
44:46
SPEAKER_03: I like Earl.
44:47
SPEAKER_03: Um, he like forever we would either call each other what's in the tank.
44:52
SPEAKER_03: Uh he'd be going, okay, I'll trade you this for this.
44:57
SPEAKER_03: And but what a great way, especially for a new breeder, to build your herd.
45:01
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
45:01
SPEAKER_03: Is to swap genetics and barter because now you're you're getting outside genetics of your herd, yeah, and it's not costing you an arm and a leg.
45:10
SPEAKER_03: So I highly encourage that.
45:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:13
SPEAKER_03: Um I I do it today.
45:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, if somebody calls and said I want to do something, sure.
45:18
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, well, what's in your tank?
45:20
SPEAKER_03: Right, right, right, exactly.
45:21
SPEAKER_03: Let's see what we can do.
45:22
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
45:23
SPEAKER_03: Uh but no, I love the breed, I love the people.
45:26
SPEAKER_03: Um, for the most part, the people are great.
45:29
SPEAKER_03: Um for the most part.
45:31
SPEAKER_03: Sure, sure.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: You know, and say there there's always in any group of cows or in any group of people, there's generally a sort somewhere.
45:38
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
45:40
SPEAKER_01: That's that's part of life.
45:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
45:42
SPEAKER_03: But uh I think if you're doing cattle, if you can learn how to shave and take pictures, you can make a lot of money.
45:48
SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
45:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we we attempted that here a few months ago.
45:51
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
45:52
SPEAKER_03: And I was never so black and blue in my life.
45:55
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, no wonder they make so much money.
45:59
SPEAKER_03: I've gotten kicked so many times trying to shave these cows.
46:02
SPEAKER_03: Right.
46:02
SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah.
46:03
SPEAKER_03: But uh no, it's it's it's been a great thing.
46:06
SPEAKER_03: I always said my farm will keep me alive forever or it's gonna kill me.
46:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
46:12
SPEAKER_03: But absolutely there's no place I'd rather be to go out there and watch the cows.
46:16
SPEAKER_03: It's I know for some people if they're not in the industry, they may not understand that.
46:21
SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
46:22
SPEAKER_03: There's a lot to it.
46:23
SPEAKER_03: I mean, just it's it's calming.
46:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, and uh I you know, I I I always say, you know, we bred this, but it's God's creation.
46:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, you know, absolutely.
46:32
SPEAKER_03: And I give him the all the credit.
46:34
SPEAKER_03: But uh it's nice that we're trying to to breed that better animal.
46:38
SPEAKER_01: Right.
46:39
SPEAKER_03: And we're trying to use the data to do it.
46:42
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
46:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, and and a couple of points I wanted to touch on from what you'd mentioned there, and and talking about contemporary groups, you talked about your field ration, you know, versus like a steer ration.
46:51
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one really important thing for people to understand.
46:54
SPEAKER_01: And this is one of the reasons, even for me personally, I'm always a little leery to share the raw data set only because if someone took my raw data set that's coming off of of grass or coming off of forage only and compared it to animals that were getting 20 plus pounds of grain per day, they'd say, well, then that that means that Ceth's genetics have no value versus these others that were getting fed like crazy.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: They must have all the value.
47:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, actually, the difference between the two sets is not near so much genetic as it is environmental, right?
47:21
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're both most base level uh biology classes, you know, we're gonna tell you phenotype or the expression, you know, whether we're talking IMF or whether we're talking rate of gain or whatever else, equals genotype G plus E, environment.
47:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, and it is both components are at play, both the genetic component and environment, things like feed are in play when we look at things like rate of gain or marbling deposition.
47:43
SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's important when people take a look at hard data sets, you understand you need to compare within that data.
47:50
SPEAKER_01: That's what defines a contemporary group.
47:52
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
47:52
SPEAKER_01: As we say, I'm gonna compare these heifers on this ration at this age to these heifers on this ration at this age, and not take them out of context and say, well, now we're gonna compare them to this steer that's a year older and has been on drastically hotter feed for 300 days.
48:08
SPEAKER_01: Because it wouldn't be a fair comparison.
48:09
SPEAKER_01: If we were to compare the two hard metrics and assume that were the end-all be-all of genetic merit, well, then the only thing that would ever win would be whatever was oldest and it had the most feed poured at it, it would have nothing to do with genetics.
48:22
SPEAKER_01: It would have to do with age and it would have to do with ration, because that that's what would just pile gain and or marbling into them.
48:28
SPEAKER_01: It's pretty straightforward in that sense.
48:30
SPEAKER_03: So that's why when I talk to people, you know, I'm not saying I'm right, but I'm just saying this is what we do.
48:37
SPEAKER_03: Sure, yeah.
48:37
SPEAKER_03: And it's kind of industry, you know, when we get our ultrasound data and when we do our feed efficiency.
48:44
SPEAKER_03: But if everybody would kind of follow a general we would be able to be able to compare them across herds a little easier.
48:52
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
48:53
SPEAKER_03: You know, and I think the more people that do that, the more data we're gonna get.
48:56
SPEAKER_03: And I wish everybody did it.
48:58
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
48:59
SPEAKER_03: Could you imagine the data we would the animals we could give or the genetics we might have an opportunity to buy with hard data?
49:06
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
49:06
SPEAKER_03: It'd be incredible.
49:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, and and it needs done, like you'd mentioned.
49:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can take a big broad set of full siblings, exact same size, exact same damn.
49:15
SPEAKER_01: And my siblings aren't as good looking as I am either.
49:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's my wife would roll her eyes at that joke.
49:22
SPEAKER_01: I've told that's one of about five I have, you know.
49:24
SPEAKER_01: And my poor wife's heard them all way too many times.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: But that's but you know, honestly, if we if we don't have a chance to identify the differences, we just assume, well, but inherently they're equal.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: You know, they they share a sire, they share a damn, they must be the same, you know.
49:38
SPEAKER_01: And it's just like you talked about, I mean, identifying an individual like Rushaw Max that we'll use as an example.
49:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, Rushaw Max, that's wonderful, he's come to the top, he's come to the front, we're saying, hey, this is a bull you can tie into with confidence to move forward on these these traits that matter to you that you're measuring in your operation.
49:53
SPEAKER_01: But then if all we did is say, well, this is where it ends, is anything that's a Rushaw Max must must inherently all be perfect, right?
50:00
SPEAKER_01: Because the bull himself came to the no.
50:03
SPEAKER_01: Within within his calves, there'll be a range, you know, and hopefully he's moving the average of everything in the right direction or towards those those established targets.
50:10
SPEAKER_01: But among his offspring, hopefully, you know, you measure all of them, and again, even among, even though the average is improved, there'll still be a bottom end to cut.
50:18
SPEAKER_01: There'll still be some average animals to just run as cows.
50:21
SPEAKER_01: And hopefully, hopefully, there's a calf in there somewhere that'll outdo his sire.
50:25
SPEAKER_01: And that's the next step forward.
50:26
SPEAKER_01: You know, and I mean that that's breeding cattle in a nutshell.
50:29
SPEAKER_03: And I'm success in breeding cattle.
50:30
SPEAKER_01: Right, absolutely.
50:31
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, that's that's I I'm just using Rushaw Max as an example.
50:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's the same like I mentioned with 121.
50:36
SPEAKER_01: You'd say, hey, you hope you find an individual better among her offspring, right?
50:41
SPEAKER_01: And then in the next generation down.
50:42
SPEAKER_01: But you'd have to gather the data to know, because if you don't gather the data, it's just like your example with buying a$20 or$30,000 donor, and then all she ever is for the rest or forever is say, well, she's a$20,000,$30,000 donor, so the rest must inherently be good.
50:56
SPEAKER_01: We've never measured anything about any of them to know if they were or they weren't, or who was best or who was worse, or who was whatever.
51:01
SPEAKER_01: You know, we don't ever move forward beyond that one day that, like, yeah, yeah, this animal, this one time on this one day in this one setting, you know, it's worthwhile.
51:09
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not trying to take anything away from those animals at all.
51:11
SPEAKER_01: Right.
51:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying we want to continue.
51:13
SPEAKER_01: I I'd love to see the the buyers of those those genetics continue to move them forward, right?
51:17
SPEAKER_01: I'd love to see Rushaw Max continue to move forward your bowl.
51:20
SPEAKER_01: I'd love to see 121, my donor, continue to move forward in all those settings for all of us.
51:25
SPEAKER_01: That's the point of identifying the best, is is to make them better yet in the next generation.
51:29
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's that's I would hope is the goal for about anybody.
51:32
SPEAKER_03: Probably 121, in my opinion, is the best dam in the breed.
51:38
SPEAKER_03: I would find it I would argue with about anybody if they said, no, I got a better dam.
51:44
SPEAKER_03: You know, well, show me the data.
51:46
SPEAKER_02: Sure, right, right, right.
51:47
SPEAKER_02: Show me the data, right?
51:48
SPEAKER_03: Right.
51:49
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
51:49
SPEAKER_03: Um she's just a powerhouse.
51:52
SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
51:53
SPEAKER_03: You know, I mean, she really is.
51:54
SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely, definitely a distinct individual.
51:57
SPEAKER_01: And I appreciate the kind words.
51:58
SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the things I really appreciate, Mike, is that I mean, you've you've put all this time and effort and money into gathering all this data.
52:06
SPEAKER_01: And one, you're you're willing to share it, as opposed to saying, well, this is all kept really close to the chest.
52:12
SPEAKER_01: And two, you're not saying, like, well, the only thing that could ever come to the front is just like Rushaw Max, that's wonderful, and that's that's fantastic.
52:19
SPEAKER_01: And so appreciate that you have identified him, but you haven't said that's the only thing that ever came to the front.
52:23
SPEAKER_01: You you know, you've been willing to share, like, hey, here's a foundation bull that did well.
52:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, here's here's another, you know, in in Tamamuru, here's another um, I guess non-foundation bowl, but non-owned bull.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: You know, you don't own Red Galaxy, and you're wanna say, he's you know, and N121.
52:37
SPEAKER_01: That's that's my donor.
52:38
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I appreciate I see that I guess as very selfless of you to say, hey, you've put in the time and effort and money to gather the data, and you're not just using it to say, like, well, this all of this data says I'm king and no one else ever.
52:51
unknown: Yeah.
52:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
52:52
SPEAKER_03: I mean, unfortunately, not one animal.
52:55
SPEAKER_03: I think one year we had, because I like tamaroon and this.
52:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
52:59
SPEAKER_03: I mean, so oh, it's been about 10 years ago, but we made a bunch of tamaro embryos.
53:04
SPEAKER_03: And out of that, God has made us a bull farm.
53:07
SPEAKER_00: Right.
53:08
SPEAKER_00: Right.
53:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:09
SPEAKER_03: Shows how many bulls we have on the farm.
53:10
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
53:11
SPEAKER_03: But I think we had like 11 or 13 tamaru sons from the same mating.
53:17
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
53:17
SPEAKER_03: But out of, I can't remember if it was 11 of them or 13 of them, but the difference in those full sibling bulls was incredible.
53:26
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's like, wow, how can the same embryo be so far?
53:31
SPEAKER_03: Yes, you know, and I think some of it could have been maybe the recep wasn't as good, or maybe that calf got sick at a young age.
53:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
53:39
SPEAKER_03: But still, with that many, and to look at that data, you're like, wow, uh huh, not every animal is a donor.
53:45
SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right.
53:46
SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
53:47
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
53:47
SPEAKER_03: You bet uh where I used to think, well, I got a whole field of donors.
53:52
SPEAKER_03: And when we started collecting the data, I'm like, wow, I have a few good donors.
53:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
53:58
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
53:59
SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think it's great because when we can start using the strong points of one animal to fill in off a weak point of another animal, that to me is exciting.
54:09
SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
54:10
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't get out much, so I don't have that big, exciting life.
54:14
SPEAKER_03: But when I can do that, um, I'm like, this is cool.
54:18
SPEAKER_03: I can't wait to get the data.
54:19
SPEAKER_03: All I gotta do is wait three years.
54:21
SPEAKER_03: Right, right, right.
54:22
SPEAKER_03: Then we'll have that data.
54:23
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I think with what we're doing is literally every year our data gets better.
54:30
SPEAKER_03: Every year.
54:31
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
54:31
SPEAKER_01: So I know you'd mentioned that there were a handful of cows that have come to the top for you, and hey, these are some individuals you really do want to multiply going forward.
54:38
SPEAKER_01: Would you would you be willing to share who some of those five are and or what sires you're using on them to try to move them forward?
54:45
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
54:46
SPEAKER_03: Um we picked up uh David Christensen's herd.
54:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't know if it was his whole herd, but we picked up like 24 animals.
54:54
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
54:55
SPEAKER_03: And he had a judo daughter, and she's like a hundred years old.
54:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yep, yep.
55:00
SPEAKER_01: I know the cow.
55:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, 47A, I think.
55:03
SPEAKER_01: Junior, yep.
55:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Junior.
55:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know her.
55:05
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
55:05
SPEAKER_03: Big cow.
55:06
SPEAKER_03: I think she's close to 1,500 pounds.
55:08
SPEAKER_03: Got a bag of milk on her like a a dairy cow.
55:11
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
55:11
SPEAKER_03: Um, her IMF score.
55:14
SPEAKER_03: Now, I didn't get her when she was young.
55:16
SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
55:17
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
55:17
SPEAKER_03: We scanned her.
55:18
SPEAKER_03: We scanned her when she was nine months pregnant.
55:21
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so she's carrying a calf.
55:22
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
55:23
SPEAKER_03: Because I just wanted to see what we had.
55:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
55:24
SPEAKER_03: When we bought those cattle, let's just see where they get where they hand, where they ended up.
55:28
SPEAKER_03: And we had we had about 12 that were young enough to go into our feed efficiency test, but we had some that were older.
55:34
SPEAKER_03: But she is a high marbler, like a 10 point two or something, which is high.
55:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
55:41
SPEAKER_02: Right, right, right.
55:42
SPEAKER_03: Um, and and she was, like I said, uh pregnant in nine months and obviously not getting a lot of feed.
55:49
SPEAKER_03: Sure, sure.
55:50
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
55:50
SPEAKER_03: And then there's another animal, which is a DH, one of the DH cows.
55:56
SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't remember her genetics off the top, but another high marbler, but neither one of those had a a big ribeye.
56:04
SPEAKER_02: Okay, gotcha, sure.
56:05
SPEAKER_03: And so those are the two I was talking about where we're coming back with like Katsukari.
56:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because not a great a mid-grade marbler from what we've scanned.
56:13
SPEAKER_03: And we've we've only done four of them.
56:16
SPEAKER_03: So I'm not saying this is the way he is.
56:18
SPEAKER_03: Sure, but sure.
56:19
SPEAKER_03: They always have big ribeyes so far.
56:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean above average.
56:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
56:24
SPEAKER_03: Um we've got a red galaxy daughter that hit prime at 14 months of age.
56:30
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
56:30
SPEAKER_03: Um, had a 12-inch ribeye.
56:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
56:32
SPEAKER_03: So um, she's a donor we're doing right now.
56:35
SPEAKER_03: Um gosh, who else are we using right now?
56:38
SPEAKER_03: We've got a Tamaru daughter.
56:41
SPEAKER_03: Um, it's actually a Tamaro cow.
56:43
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
56:44
SPEAKER_03: And uh she's over Red Star and she's fantastic.
56:48
SPEAKER_03: She's got like a 12 and a half inch ribeye and like a 10 point something IMF as an older cow.
56:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, you know, so um, and there's a bull out right now that is a very good bull and uh another jury bull at a point.
57:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and he hit mid prime um at the Colorado um deal.
57:13
SPEAKER_03: And that was his claim to fame, but he was also uh 24 months old when he did it.
57:18
SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
57:19
SPEAKER_03: You know, and so that's what I think that when we look at those animals at 24 months, I'm hoping that most Wagyu hit prime.
57:27
SPEAKER_03: Okay, yeah, you know, especially if you're gonna put them in a show and you're you're dumping a bunch of feed in them.
57:31
SPEAKER_02: Sure, yeah, yeah.
57:32
SPEAKER_03: You know, but uh you know, we've got I I don't remember all of the genetics, but there's five we're working with, and two of them came from that purchase.
57:41
SPEAKER_03: I'm excited to get data on them.
57:43
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
57:44
SPEAKER_03: Um one of them was the one that we co-owned with Chuck Davis, DH Farms, and then we've got the Red Galaxy, and we've got a um which one did we decide to use?
57:57
SPEAKER_03: I don't remember at the top of my head.
57:59
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
58:00
SPEAKER_03: But if anybody wanted to know, I'd share their data and show what we're breeding to.
58:04
SPEAKER_00: You bet.
58:04
SPEAKER_03: And actually this time, the last time we um in December we made embryos, I used the recital because I hadn't used them yet.
58:12
SPEAKER_03: You bet and we were reverse sorted.
58:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
58:14
SPEAKER_03: Um got got a pretty good concept rate.
58:16
SPEAKER_03: We good at like 41%.
58:18
SPEAKER_03: Good.
58:19
SPEAKER_03: And it's sad because I'm saying that's a good concept rate.
58:22
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
58:22
SPEAKER_03: A long time ago, it w if we had a 70 percent 70 percent concept rate, it wasn't shocking to me.
58:30
SPEAKER_03: And then it went down to like 30 percent.
58:32
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, what's going on with the embryos?
58:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think a lot of it is the medium that's being used.
58:37
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
58:38
SPEAKER_03: But uh this time um we're using sex red emperor and red galaxy.
58:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
58:44
SPEAKER_03: Because they fit the weaknesses of the animals um that we're that we're breeding to.
58:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
58:52
SPEAKER_03: I mean, simple breedings, everybody's got them in the herd, but I believe they're gonna be this will probably be our best batch of calves as long as we get embryos to make sure we get calves on the ground that we've ever made.
59:04
SPEAKER_01: You bet.
59:05
SPEAKER_03: If the data stays true.
59:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
59:08
SPEAKER_03: And so I'm excited about it.
59:10
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
59:11
SPEAKER_01: So if you're looking forward at your herd at large, you know, that's kind of the direction you're moving, is you've gathered this data, it can now inform today's breeding decisions, which hopefully moves that data further towards your established targets, towards higher marbling, larger ribeyes, faster rate of gain, less feed to produce that gain.
59:29
SPEAKER_01: Is there anything else that you would you would add or throw in for any of these new breeders?
59:33
SPEAKER_01: We talked about education and the importance of that.
59:35
SPEAKER_01: Is there anything else you'd like to touch on in particular as we kind of wrap up here, Mike, that you'd like to see or you'd like to share with a new breeder, somebody maybe at convention for the first time, or considering coming to the WAGU Super event and/or your educational event in October?
59:49
SPEAKER_03: Well, first off, talk to a lot of breeders.
59:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's a lot of good breeders out there.
59:54
SPEAKER_03: Second off, don't believe anything you read online.
59:57
SPEAKER_03: I don't care who post it, don't believe it.
1:00:00
SPEAKER_03: Um, and if somebody unless me or Mike posted it.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_03: Then it's hard facts.
1:00:05
SPEAKER_03: Those guys you can trust.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_03: But um, you know, collect your data.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:00:11
SPEAKER_03: I don't care if it's just collect your weights.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_03: Right, right, right, yeah.
1:00:14
SPEAKER_03: Start with something.
1:00:15
SPEAKER_03: Everything is important to you.
1:00:16
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
1:00:17
SPEAKER_03: Keep records.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_03: You know, yes.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_03: We started off with like everybody, we have all of our animals, all their full bloods, who they're registered with, their birth dates.
1:00:26
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
1:00:26
SPEAKER_03: And our our spreadsheets have gotten longer and longer and longer as we start to collect more data points.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_03: You know, so it's not on one page, we're kind of folding it over and looking across.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_03: So it gets a little bit confusing, but I would really tell people never, and I've said it a hundred times, never chase the hottest bull.
1:00:45
SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
1:00:46
SPEAKER_03: You know, uh, especially if you're on the black side.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_03: There's yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_03: You know, this month it's this bull.
1:00:51
SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
1:00:52
SPEAKER_03: It's only 10,000 a straw.
1:00:54
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
1:00:54
SPEAKER_03: But next month it's this bull.
1:00:56
SPEAKER_03: And then when the hides come off, it was like, well, that's not right.
1:01:00
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
1:01:01
SPEAKER_02: Right, yep, yep.
1:01:02
SPEAKER_03: I think uh ABS said their number one selling bull a few years ago was uh United.
1:01:07
SPEAKER_03: Um they sold more United than any other uh bull of any breed.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_03: And he had great and he's a good bull, but when the hides started coming off, his data dropped hard.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
1:01:19
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
1:01:19
SPEAKER_03: You know, so I I I just don't chase the hottest fad.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
1:01:23
SPEAKER_03: You know, there's a lot of good bulls out there that have a lot of good data, and that's a great place to start.
1:01:28
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, yeah.
1:01:29
SPEAKER_03: Watch your carcass data.
1:01:31
SPEAKER_03: You know, a a lot of people go, Well, you don't know what you got until you take the hide off.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_03: And I kind of argue that because when you take the hide off, it's over.
1:01:39
SPEAKER_03: You know, I want to know what it's doing way earlier than that.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_03: And uh and I really think the only way to do to see that data is that live ultrasound scan.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_03: And a live ultrasound scan, if you got a if you got a scale and a squeeze chute, I think we pay maybe$25 a scan.
1:01:58
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
1:01:58
SPEAKER_03: Um be careful when you do the scan.
1:02:02
SPEAKER_03: Um I I especially if you're doing blacks because they cut the calves tend to be a little bit smaller at that age.
1:02:08
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
1:02:08
SPEAKER_03: And if they're too small, they can't pick it up.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_03: If you've never seen an ultrasound scan, they've got a wand that kind of runs on the rib cage.
1:02:16
SPEAKER_03: And if it's too big, they're not gonna either pick up the IMF, and so you're gonna have to come back and scan them again.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_03: And so on the wegu, red or black, you want them to be at least 600 pounds.
1:02:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:02:27
SPEAKER_02: Yep, yeah.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_03: But try to keep it in that early data because you you'll be able to find what animal matures early.
1:02:34
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
1:02:34
SPEAKER_03: The most important data you could put in your books, in my opinion, is to get that animal that at a young age has already got a big ribeye, they've got high marbling.
1:02:43
SPEAKER_03: And if you can get someplace that's got feed efficiency, we thought about buying more units and then taking animals in.
1:02:50
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
1:02:51
SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm really scared to bring animals on my farm.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_03: Sure, yeah.
1:02:55
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
1:02:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yep, yep.
1:02:56
SPEAKER_03: Um years ago, um we started we we started testing for things.
1:03:02
SPEAKER_03: And when I was on the board, we'd go out to the National Western Stock Show and SEK Genetics out of Kansas, yeah, they had a booth across from us.
1:03:10
SPEAKER_03: And when the Wagyu show was going on, I stayed in the booth because I didn't want the booth to be unmanned.
1:03:15
SPEAKER_03: And so I would ask the guy that owns SEK, I'm like, so what is it this year?
1:03:19
SPEAKER_03: He goes, This year it's Neospora.
1:03:21
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
1:03:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:03:22
SPEAKER_02: What is that herd of?
1:03:24
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
1:03:24
SPEAKER_03: He goes, Oh, test your herd for free.
1:03:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
1:03:27
SPEAKER_03: But if I find one animal, you gotta pay me double.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
1:03:30
SPEAKER_03: You know, so there's a lot of animals, but I've known people that bought animals from another farm to find out they had yonis.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_03: And that breeder could never sell an animal as seed stock.
1:03:43
SPEAKER_03: And uh so I'm highly sensitive.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_03: Even when we bring our animals in to be IVF'd, um sometimes we've worked with Blue STEM, a great shop out in Kansas, and they would keep my cattle at their hay farm.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_03: They would bring them in, work them, and put them back.
1:03:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_03: Um, so I would really be careful when you're buying animals before you put them into your herd, test them.
1:04:06
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
1:04:06
SPEAKER_03: Um, if you go to S S S K S E K in Kansas, I think one vial of blood you can test for Yonis, B V D, Neospora, maybe anioplasm.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_03: It's like 25 bucks.
1:04:17
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:04:17
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:04:18
SPEAKER_03: That's the best money you can spend.
1:04:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:04:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:04:20
SPEAKER_03: You know, because that way if there's an issue, you catch it early.
1:04:23
SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
1:04:24
SPEAKER_03: Because if you don't catch it early, when you do catch it, you're in trouble.
1:04:27
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
1:04:28
SPEAKER_02: Yep, yep.
1:04:28
SPEAKER_03: And so I would hate to see somebody spend a lot of money.
1:04:31
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:04:31
SPEAKER_03: You know, or if you buy recips.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_03: A lot of people buy dairy recips or they go to the cell barn to buy recips.
1:04:36
SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
1:04:37
SPEAKER_01: And that starts getting dangerous in a hurry.
1:04:38
SPEAKER_01: It's absolute insanity.
1:04:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
1:04:40
SPEAKER_01: I say when I see people using dairy recips, when when dare and it's always tempting because I get it, I'm like dairy cows are very available, you know, and and they sure enough milk hard.
1:04:49
SPEAKER_01: But it's uh, you know, the average dairy cow's done when she's six or seven years of age.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_01: They don't even even know she had yonis.
1:04:55
SPEAKER_01: They don't care if she had yonis because they were all going to be done at six or seven anyway.
1:04:58
SPEAKER_01: But when your whole beef herd at six or seven years old starts to waste away because the intestinal wall has thickened and they are terminal with yonis.
1:05:06
SPEAKER_01: And the worst of it is now you've got it in the herd and you you've got it through multiple generations, and yonis is almost impossible to test around.
1:05:13
SPEAKER_01: You can get false negatives on that.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_01: And so I mean it's a terrifying disease in that sense.
1:05:18
SPEAKER_01: And so I tell people, I mean, of all the things of all the things to do, don't use dairy recips.
1:05:23
SPEAKER_01: Although and I hate, I mean, I I I don't want to disparage anybody in any sense.
1:05:27
SPEAKER_01: I but I just say that as a as a word of warning to say, hey, you're you've invested all this time and effort and money in these good cows and making these embryos and everything else.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_01: And I understand the temptation to go stick them in a dairy recip.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_01: Don't go stick them in a dairy recip.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_03: The yonis are heavier in the dairy breed than the cattle breed because they're so compacted compared to confinement.
1:05:49
SPEAKER_01: But between the confinement and then the fact that, yeah, I mean, most of those dairy cows wouldn't survive until you see the yonis anyway.
1:05:56
SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean most dairy cows are spent before they're six or seven.
1:05:59
SPEAKER_01: Whereas a beef Cow.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the old rule of thumb was always that a beef cow hadn't paid for herself until she's six or seven.
1:06:05
SPEAKER_01: She needs to produce past that to produce a profit in a commercial setting.
1:06:08
SPEAKER_01: And so if they're all all of a sudden wasting away at six or seven, that that's that's terrifying.
1:06:14
SPEAKER_01: And so I would I would.
1:06:24
SPEAKER_01: Like you you're gonna get false negatives until it's too late and then they'll show up as positives and they could be a carrier, but they don't they don't start shedding until later.
1:06:34
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:06:34
SPEAKER_03: And if they're shedding, chances are the calf is.
1:06:37
SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
1:06:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:06:38
SPEAKER_03: And uh um, I talked to there's a Yone's institute, I think it's in Minnesota or Michigan, because all the dare cattle, sure.
1:06:45
SPEAKER_03: Dairy cattle.
1:06:46
SPEAKER_03: And I was talking to them about it a long time ago, and I'm like, if can you make an uh embryos with a Yoneys animal?
1:06:54
SPEAKER_03: Well, sure.
1:06:55
SPEAKER_03: I said, Well, that passed to the calf.
1:06:58
SPEAKER_03: And they're like, probably not, but if you do, let us know.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:07:03
SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
1:07:03
SPEAKER_03: Wait a minute, you guys are supposed to be the experts in this.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_03: You know, so uh we just decided let's test our herd.
1:07:09
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_03: And then we'll test it a year later.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_03: And after that, I mean, like we we buy some buybacks from professional recipt farms.
1:07:17
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_03: Amanda Sears is great.
1:07:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:07:20
SPEAKER_03: Um, I highly recommend we bought uh uh calves from her, yeah, um, and we bought pregnancies, but everything is tested.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_03: Yes, and we get that data.
1:07:29
SPEAKER_03: Transova's good at it.
1:07:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, if you buy pregnancies from Transova, you get that data.
1:07:34
SPEAKER_02: You bet, you bet.
1:07:35
SPEAKER_03: And uh so I think it's so important because I would hate to see any breeder, especially a new breeder, sure.
1:07:40
SPEAKER_03: They're investing money that sometimes maybe they don't have, and then you find out you've got something you've never heard of.
1:07:46
SPEAKER_03: You know, yeah, and so uh um I think it's just so important biosecurity.
1:07:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:07:52
SPEAKER_03: I got to go to Ecuador uh two years ago.
1:07:55
SPEAKER_03: Um they call the big five from Ecuador.
1:07:58
SPEAKER_03: They're the big five um cattle breeders, but they all do cattle, shrimp, coffee, teak.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_03: Um, and they came up and did a Missouri USDA tour, and they came by the farm and uh um I fed them some wigu steaks, and so we ended up selling a bunch of gen X to them that was exported down there.
1:08:19
SPEAKER_03: And when the USDA went down, they invited me to go.
1:08:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, and so I went down there and I I'll be honest with you, I didn't know what to expect.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_03: I do a lot of scuba diving in Honduras and Belize, and yeah, I I'm spending a lot of time in Central and South America, and I'm like, you know, what do I expect?
1:08:35
SPEAKER_03: And when you go on their farms, the first thing you do is you drive through a shallow pool of ammonia water, and then they've got a fogger machine, they're gonna fog the whole car.
1:08:45
SPEAKER_03: And when you get out, you walk through a shallow pool of ammonia water and you take your shoes off and you put their sanitized boots on.
1:08:53
SPEAKER_03: And I thought, wow, they are so far ahead of us on their biosecurity.
1:08:58
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_03: We don't even, I mean, you don't even think about it.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_03: Sure, sure.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_03: You know, you buy a cow and somebody hauls it out for you that's had been running up and down the road for 30 days, sure, and who knows what that animal is standing in.
1:09:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, you know, yep, yeah, yeah.
1:09:12
SPEAKER_03: Um so uh, you know, biosecurity's big.
1:09:15
SPEAKER_03: Um, but just be open to new ideas.
1:09:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, ask a lot of questions.
1:09:19
SPEAKER_03: Like I said, there's a lot of breeders with a lot of experience.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:09:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:09:23
SPEAKER_03: I think the conventions are great because there's a lot of top breeders that will most of them are willing to share information.
1:09:30
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
1:09:30
SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep.
1:09:31
SPEAKER_03: And uh and that's how we're gonna grow this breed.
1:09:33
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_01: And um, to echo your comments there, I would.
1:09:36
SPEAKER_01: I tell people to to start gathering whatever whatever data you can.
1:09:40
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
1:09:40
SPEAKER_01: Even and it and there is, there's data points available to collect throughout the lifespan.
1:09:44
SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm with you.
1:09:46
SPEAKER_01: I think all of them matter.
1:09:47
SPEAKER_01: It's it's not clear until the hide comes off that we can look at anything that matters.
1:09:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I mean, I say even from I mean, from the day that we breed those cows, you know, within a month, you can see what was your conception rate.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_01: And to me, that's an important data point.
1:09:59
SPEAKER_01: How do we do for conception rate, right?
1:10:01
SPEAKER_01: That's gonna be documented.
1:10:02
SPEAKER_01: And even prior to that, I would say, you know, from the day the animals step off the trailer, how were they to handle?
1:10:07
SPEAKER_01: We can collect and say, like, hey, here's some animals that were bat crap crazy.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_01: That end needs to go to the beep to a beef program, right?
1:10:13
SPEAKER_01: Here's some animals that were exceptionally mellow, and we can maybe point those towards the.
1:10:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying that just because they're mellow, but again, they should maybe maybe stay more in your donor candidate pool.
1:10:22
SPEAKER_01: Let's call it that.
1:10:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then animals in the middle, you know, or maybe just an average cow.
1:10:26
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I mean, you can analyze them from the day they arrive on docility.
1:10:29
SPEAKER_01: We can analyze them pretty well immediately on fertility and all on conception rate.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_01: We can analyze them the day they're born.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_01: Were they born nice and light?
1:10:36
SPEAKER_01: Were they born unassisted?
1:10:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:10:38
SPEAKER_01: Or did they require assistance?
1:10:39
SPEAKER_01: Or were they heavier than we'd like to see?
1:10:41
SPEAKER_01: And again, there's a spectrum, even among full siblings, to say, hey, here's the more desirable end of what we saw, and here's the less desirable end.
1:10:49
SPEAKER_01: We can go ahead and take a weaning weight the day that calf comes off the cow.
1:10:52
SPEAKER_01: They don't all weigh the exact same.
1:10:54
SPEAKER_01: There's a better and a lesser end of the spectrum there.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_01: And then going on to things like carcass ultrasound and going all the way through to taking the height off, you know, and looking at the finished product.
1:11:03
SPEAKER_01: All of those are valuable data points.
1:11:04
SPEAKER_01: But I would, I'd encourage people to start gathering any and all data you can.
1:11:08
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be that from day one, you go spend what it takes to own a CLOC system.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, from day one, let's start with, let's analyze something, let's record something, you know, gather what data you can, even if all you could afford to invest in up front was a scale.
1:11:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, even if it was just a calf scale to get started with that something, we can at least say what are the actual birth rates.
1:11:29
SPEAKER_01: Because you would be amazed how many seed stock breeders proclaim that they're producing, you know, superior genetics or genetics that would provide value for a commercial producer and they don't have a set of calf scales and they don't have a set of weanlings, you know, a set of scales for weanlings or yearlings, much less call in an ultrasound technician.
1:11:47
SPEAKER_01: And I and I understand, you know, I mean, it's easier to not do do any of those things.
1:11:52
SPEAKER_01: Very easy.
1:11:52
SPEAKER_01: But but if we're not going to do those, are are we really seed stock breeders moving things forward?
1:11:58
SPEAKER_01: Or are we just just uh breeding commercial cattle that should frankly be sold as just just a uh a feeder calf or or just as beef, but we want more money, and so we're calling ourselves seed stock breeders and just propagating stuff based off a name or or hype or the bowl of the month, like to your point.
1:12:16
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I think that that gathering the data to whatever extent you can.
1:12:20
SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, even if if you're just starting out with some minimal data points, gathering the data, I think that's a that's a differentiator and a necessary differentiator if you're really going to call yourself a seed stock breeder.
1:12:32
SPEAKER_01: You have to be willing and able to gather that data.
1:12:34
SPEAKER_03: I've got a a friend of mine, Matt Cody, at Cody Creek, and we we run a lot of our bulls at his farm.
1:12:40
SPEAKER_03: And uh, I mean, he's serious.
1:12:42
SPEAKER_03: He he uses all the data we collect, and then when he harvests, he takes pictures and then he puts all that data so you can go back and see every animal that he has ever done all the way through the carcass picks.
1:12:55
SPEAKER_03: And it it's nice to have him do that.
1:12:57
SPEAKER_03: Yes, because I don't have to.
1:12:59
SPEAKER_03: That's right, right, right.
1:13:01
SPEAKER_01: It takes a lot of time and energy and effort.
1:13:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we've got some a judo bull that I want to see some carcasses out of him, but I love his data that the carcasses are good, we're gonna collect him.
1:13:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:13:11
SPEAKER_03: And um, we've got a bunch of Rushaw Macs that we're gonna be taking the hides off here in the next few months.
1:13:16
SPEAKER_03: And so that's when it's really gonna show me how did that work.
1:13:20
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:13:21
SPEAKER_03: You know, how did it turn out?
1:13:22
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
1:13:23
SPEAKER_03: So uh absolutely but yeah, I mean it's an exciting time.
1:13:26
SPEAKER_03: If you're thinking, well, I don't want to get into this breed, it's you know, too far along.
1:13:30
SPEAKER_03: This breed is at the beginning, so young, yeah, so young.
1:13:34
SPEAKER_03: There's a there's we are at the front, yeah, there's an opportunity to make yes you know, especially if you're in the blacks, we are where the black the reds are where the blacks were 15 years ago.
1:13:43
SPEAKER_03: Sure, yeah you know, when I compare that for sure, yeah.
1:13:47
SPEAKER_03: So don't think that you don't want to be in this breed because you don't think you can catch up or anything, sure, because you can be out in front running hard.
1:13:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:13:55
SPEAKER_03: Um, and uh I I like it because when I got into it, everybody was selling each other because there wasn't anybody else to buy, sure, and we knew if we didn't expand, we were never gonna grow as an industry breed.
1:14:08
SPEAKER_02: You bet.
1:14:09
SPEAKER_03: And uh so yeah, it's it's a good time to be in the breed, uh especially with cattle prices up.
1:14:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:14:14
SPEAKER_03: And uh there it's just the best breed.
1:14:17
SPEAKER_03: The beef is incredible, it's healthy.
1:14:19
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I always have friends that want to come to my house for barbecue.
1:14:23
SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
1:14:24
SPEAKER_03: Imagine that.
1:14:25
SPEAKER_03: You bet, yeah.
1:14:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
1:14:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, thank you for having me on today.
1:14:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm excited to have an opportunity like this.
1:14:34
SPEAKER_03: You bet.
1:14:35
SPEAKER_03: And uh um I don't know, I'd like to get some more 121 genetics.
1:14:40
SPEAKER_03: You bet, you bet.
1:14:41
SPEAKER_03: So, everybody out there, you need to buy some 121 genetics.
1:14:44
SPEAKER_03: I was gonna buy them tonight, but they got real expensive.
1:14:48
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, dang it.
1:14:50
SPEAKER_01: And likewise, I sure recommend they take a look at that Rushaw Max poll.
1:14:55
SPEAKER_01: I think you know, it's that's one of the things that you can do.
1:14:57
SPEAKER_01: Any of us has the opportunity, you know, but uh we're we're so fortunate to live live here in the United States of America and have the opportunity to vote with our wallets or vote with our pocketbooks.
1:15:08
SPEAKER_01: Hey, I appreciate the work you're doing.
1:15:10
SPEAKER_01: And and I've bought Rushaw Max.
1:15:13
SPEAKER_01: I'd encourage other people to do some of the same and and take those and again test them in your herd and see where it works, you know, and do some of those different things.
1:15:20
SPEAKER_01: And and so appreciate you being willing to do what you've done on your ranch and on your farm and and and sharing that data.
1:15:27
SPEAKER_01: And I appreciate you being willing to sit down and record with me for an hour here late tonight at the Akayushi Convention.
1:15:33
SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you.
1:15:34
SPEAKER_03: Thanks for having me.
1:15:35
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for your time, my friend.
1:15:36
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Got Any Cows Podcast.
1:15:39
SPEAKER_01: Be sure to subscribe, rate, and review wherever you get your podcasts.
1:15:43
SPEAKER_01: And visit us anytime at godanycows.com.