Latest / 1 to 100 / E52: How AI Replaces People with Chase Mohseni from Creative OS

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E52: How AI Replaces People with Chase Mohseni from Creative OS · 1 to 100

• 0:00
  What's on the? What's on the whiteboard My.
• 0:02
  Son erased all the amazing stuff that I drew that I was writing
• 0:06
  yesterday. I was doing a it was a
• 0:07
  whiteboard Thursday for me over here and now there's a bunch of
• 0:12
  Godzilla stuff because he's obsessed with Godzilla and I
• 0:14
  forgot to erase it. So yeah, that's that's how we
• 0:18
  run the company Godzilla Drum. That's your business strategy,
• 0:22
  yeah. Exactly dude, just just just be.
• 0:24
  Just be a Titan, that's all. That's all, dude.
• 0:27
  I know Chase so well. We could talk about anything,
• 0:29
  Yeah. Just talking, this was.
• 0:31
  Going to be a fun one. Yeah.
• 0:33
  What the hell do you want to do? What do you want to do here?
• 0:34
  Wait, Jack, how you doing? Yes.
• 0:38
  No, dude, the dad. Yeah, Chase is a three dude.
• 0:41
  Chase is a three Xer over here. Yeah, Jeremiah is too, man.
• 0:44
  We got 2-3 extras in the house. I thought you had two kids for
• 0:48
  some reason. I got 3 now as I mean last year
• 0:52
  was the 3rd but yeah. Chase has been messaging me
• 0:56
  every day, checking in, seeing how I am.
• 0:59
  We were, you know, we've been very lucky.
• 1:00
  We've got both our parents visiting and even my little
• 1:04
  brother's here, so I'm getting 8-9 hours of sleep.
• 1:07
  I'm feeling good, yeah. Dude I don't get that much hours
• 1:11
  of sleep when I'm at my parents house when I'm like you are you
• 1:15
  are living the. Look at that much, I haven't
• 1:17
  gotten that much sleep in years dude, what the hell are you
• 1:21
  saying? I get like, you get like one
• 1:23
  night like that every six months.
• 1:25
  Yeah, well, you know, if I get that much sleep, I start to feel
• 1:28
  sick actually, like that's happening, like vacation.
• 1:31
  Well, it's just because I'm not my body, like rejects.
• 1:34
  It's like, dude, five hours and sleep deprivation.
• 1:37
  Like that's the actual place you need to live.
• 1:39
  Here's what we're going to do OK this year. 7 hours is like dude.
• 1:44
  Dude, yeah, I'm crushing it this year.
• 1:46
  OK, hold on, hold on, hold on. This is last year.
• 1:52
  Is it? Wait, it's still loading?
• 1:53
  It's it's so it's so depressed. Not bad, yeah.
• 1:57
  OK. So you guys good?
• 2:00
  Yeah. You're OK, Not horrible, Not
• 2:01
  horrible. OK.
• 2:02
  The year prior? Wow, you've been tracking for a
• 2:05
  while, hey? 12 years.
• 2:07
  Wow. OK, good, still bad.
• 2:11
  You keep. Going back, are we going to lose
• 2:13
  half an hour a year for? Bad year?
• 2:15
  That was a bad year. 2023 I had like a tracking issue so I only
• 2:20
  got 2 months. Hold on, one of your months
• 2:24
  there on 2024 looked like it was way lower than the rest of them.
• 2:29
  Hit Barn. OK.
• 2:30
  Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.
• 2:32
  Yeah. You can tell when I have.
• 2:34
  Kids. Yeah, Look at this.
• 2:35
  Look, look. OK, I'm at the hat.
• 2:40
  Kiss, kiss my ass. What are you doing?
• 2:43
  What are you doing with 5 1/2 hours of sleep?
• 2:45
  You're going to kill yourself. I mean literally not like.
• 2:47
  Figuratively so so I did something just a month ago.
• 2:51
  I started taking this thing off at night and just getting in bed
• 2:56
  at 10 and like I'll still do stuff and whatever and I'm
• 2:58
  getting up at 6. I don't get the full thing.
• 3:01
  I find this weird thing happens to me where I get so competitive
• 3:04
  about the time that I get a negative feedback loop.
• 3:06
  And when I don't measure, but I measure everything else in my
• 3:09
  life, I actually end up getting better sleep.
• 3:11
  You know, everyone is different. But like every time I measure
• 3:14
  sleep, I find my sleep starts going down and down and down
• 3:17
  because I'm thinking about it so much.
• 3:19
  And then I wake up in the middle of the night and I'm like,
• 3:21
  fucked up my sleep score. Like, how could I do this?
• 3:25
  It's like, you know, you're sitting there getting really
• 3:27
  competitive. I don't know it, it happened to
• 3:29
  me when we had the second kid. I had the whoop on all the time.
• 3:32
  And it's like, yeah, you, you slept for 4 1/2 hours.
• 3:34
  The. Fuck.
• 3:37
  So now my my mind is like, well, I'm screwed today.
• 3:39
  I can't do anything today. So now I think, yeah.
• 3:42
  Dude, I just don't think you can run a company without taking
• 3:46
  care of your health first. Well, dude lost 40 lbs in the
• 3:50
  last five months. Down from 2:30 to 1:00 to 2:30
• 3:54
  to 190, feeling incredible. And my sleep, yeah, I've been
• 3:58
  sleeping about 6 1/2 hours a night and I got to get that even
• 4:01
  higher up. So I completely agree with you.
• 4:03
  I didn't do a good job because I was not making good decisions
• 4:05
  because I wasn't sleeping enough.
• 4:06
  So I completely I completely agree.
• 4:09
  Yeah, I, I think like it's underrated.
• 4:13
  Yeah, invest in health and then everything compounds upward
• 4:16
  from. Yeah, I mean, my mental health
• 4:20
  has gone up like crazy actually since I since I started focusing
• 4:24
  on nutrition and exercise. It sounds so obvious, but like
• 4:31
  you get in kind of a like a, a spiral of like, well, I'm tired
• 4:34
  because I've only been sleeping 5 1/2 hours a night.
• 4:37
  Now I'm hungry because it's 11:00 at night.
• 4:40
  You know what would be good right now?
• 4:42
  That ice cream that I got in the fridge.
• 4:44
  Like, bro, you just have some macros, man.
• 4:46
  Like stop, stop messing around with the with the Haagen Dazs.
• 4:49
  It's not going to help you. You already had a steak, you
• 4:52
  know. At least it's better than Ben
• 4:53
  and Jerry's. Dude, I got some Ben and Jerry's
• 4:55
  tubs in the freezer. Some Reese's peanut butter cups
• 4:59
  mixed into that ice cream. Dude, Chemical engineering,
• 5:02
  Marvel. Yeah.
• 5:03
  I don't even know how they put that through a tube.
• 5:05
  How do you put chunks of Reese's peanut butter cups through a
• 5:09
  tube? You know what I mean?
• 5:10
  Like. That's the that's the magic, by
• 5:13
  the way, we should take that to a lab and figure it out.
• 5:15
  But that's the magic of, of, of Ben and Jerry's and, and modern
• 5:19
  and modern. What do you call ice cream
• 5:21
  science at this point? I don't know.
• 5:24
  But yes, sleep 100%, health 100%.
• 5:27
  I've not seen, I've seen the direct correlation to me making
• 5:31
  better decisions with focusing on that stuff.
• 5:35
  But like, dude, there's a whole cottage industry about don't
• 5:37
  sleep, work your ass off like you must grind yourself into the
• 5:41
  ground. And dude, you start like you
• 5:43
  hear that enough and you start believing.
• 5:45
  You start believing it because you don't get the context around
• 5:48
  everything that was going on in those periods with those people
• 5:51
  or like they're trying to sell you something.
• 5:53
  So I I if I could give anything to founders, it's.
• 5:56
  Like think that, OK, I don't know where you're getting the.
• 5:59
  I don't know any of those people.
• 6:01
  Oh, you know, you're not on that corner of the Internet, which is
• 6:03
  grind till you die. So many people are like that.
• 6:09
  You need to come. Don't actually don't come to my
• 6:11
  corner of the Internet because there's all those people saying
• 6:13
  that you should be. You don't need sleep like you're
• 6:16
  like the only thing that you need is to win and you do
• 6:19
  whatever you need to do to win. And it could cost you 7 years at
• 6:23
  the end of your life because your heart is not in shape and
• 6:26
  maybe you never see your children again, but you will
• 6:29
  have made lots of money. I don't know.
• 6:32
  I know lots of people with lots of money, dude.
• 6:34
  Like I know I know almost everyone with lots of money and
• 6:37
  none of them say that. I know almost everyone.
• 6:40
  I, I'm not, I'm not arguing, but I know, I know those.
• 6:42
  I know, I know. I know similar people.
• 6:45
  And they all sleep a lot. And if you ask them, did you
• 6:47
  ever have a period in your life to say, yeah, but it was six
• 6:50
  months and I made that decision and I wouldn't do it again
• 6:54
  because it was terrible, right. So I I'm with you on that
• 6:58
  completely. I'm more saying like there is a
• 7:00
  whole group of people that espouse this stuff regularly and
• 7:05
  like, you go read the comments on that and they're like, yeah,
• 7:08
  man, like I've been grinding. I'm doing this and I'm doing
• 7:11
  that. And yeah, there's a whole, I
• 7:13
  mean, Jeremiah backed me up on a + 1 on this one.
• 7:17
  But it is a it is a thing. It definitely is a thing.
• 7:22
  Not arguing for it, but it is. It is something that's out
• 7:24
  there. You can 996 or even 997 and get
• 7:27
  like 8-9 hours of sleep at night right?
• 7:31
  If you have a family, though, I don't, I don't know.
• 7:33
  I actually think this is like AI struggle with this a lot because
• 7:36
  my schedule looks like I get up in the morning.
• 7:40
  I spend 2 hours getting my kids ready for school, getting them
• 7:43
  to school, all that kind of stuff, right?
• 7:44
  That's my the first two hours of my day is that.
• 7:47
  Yes. And I work my ass off nonstop
• 7:50
  until 5:00 when I go pick my daughter up and then we do
• 7:54
  family time until 8:30-ish. And then the the part of my day
• 8:00
  that I get to do anything else is like 839 o'clock until I go
• 8:06
  to bed, which I try to keep that like no later than 11, which
• 8:10
  doesn't actually happen often. There's like 2 hours basically.
• 8:13
  So like that's, that's what my work week looks like.
• 8:16
  And the weekend is the same thing, but it's kids all day and
• 8:19
  so at work during the day. So like the, I think the thing
• 8:23
  that I constantly sit here being like, man, I'm not working
• 8:27
  enough. But if I work more, that means
• 8:31
  I'm taking away from my family time.
• 8:32
  I when I work out, I do it during the work day because
• 8:36
  that's time for me to do that. Right.
• 8:37
  I just roll calls. I'll roll calls while I lift.
• 8:41
  I tell people if you hear plates banging in the background, it's
• 8:43
  because I'm I'm trying to have a functional 30 minutes with you.
• 8:46
  Yeah, but I just I look at him like man, I can't, I cannot
• 8:50
  without taking away from like my family time.
• 8:52
  I can't do more than 50 ish hours in a week.
• 8:55
  Like that's kind of my. ACT can I tell you?
• 8:57
  Yeah, I got. My my philosophy on this is just
• 9:01
  like hiring more people in the company does not make you more
• 9:04
  productive. For sure adding more hours to
• 9:07
  your day does not make you more productive.
• 9:09
  That's that's .1 because your rate limiter is very rarely your
• 9:14
  input. It's some other external market
• 9:17
  thing, at least if you've prioritized correctly, which
• 9:21
  hopefully you have. But the second thing is,
• 9:25
  Jeremiah, one thing I will challenge is I, I basically the
• 9:28
  exact same schedule as you. OK, I spent, I like get ready by
• 9:32
  6:30, but between 5:00 and 6:30. So that way I can like get my
• 9:36
  kids ready, drop them off, get to work.
• 9:38
  But it takes like an hour and a half.
• 9:40
  But between 5:00 and 6:30, I can get an incredible amount done
• 9:44
  because with AI, I, it's like the the rate at which I can get
• 9:50
  information, understand it, act on it has never been faster.
• 9:56
  And then I can on the weekends do work while I am pushing my
• 10:02
  daughter on the swing because I can just talk to an agent and
• 10:08
  get shit done. And it is insane.
• 10:10
  And it's like, I mean, now and the way that I talk to the user
• 10:14
  is different than the way other people in the company will.
• 10:17
  And so then that work is just useful in a way in which other
• 10:21
  people can't do it just because they don't have the context
• 10:24
  right, which at this point that's changing very fast, like
• 10:28
  Concord that they don't have at this point.
• 10:30
  Everybody in the company has contacts, but I just don't think
• 10:32
  that the number of hours you put in has anything to do with the
• 10:36
  output. Is like IA 100% understand that
• 10:42
  at like a intellectual level and yet though like the feeling that
• 10:46
  you need to continue to grind is still there for me like I I
• 10:52
  guess what I'm trying. I don't think that makes sense,
• 10:53
  but like I, I get that, but also like there's an emotional thing
• 10:58
  that is like hard for me to get past oftentimes and that so
• 11:02
  really. I, I, I feel, I kind of feel
• 11:05
  the, I feel, Jeremiah, I feel very heavily on your side.
• 11:08
  And it's a like, first of all, I think like, you know, whatever
• 11:13
  you're have bottled up ships, like, can you send it to
• 11:17
  Jeremiah? And I 'cause I like, I'm going
• 11:18
  to take a shot of that like, which is, you know, not wanting
• 11:21
  to do that. I think the same way though,
• 11:23
  Jeremiah, he doesn't live on our corner of the Internet with like
• 11:25
  all this grind stuff. Like stay away.
• 11:28
  Never like a Taco, never like a Taco Willonic post in your life
• 11:33
  or it will cascade downwards into, you know, this prison that
• 11:37
  Jeremiah and I've I've digitally put ourselves in.
• 11:40
  I, I think what you're saying, though, Rich is, is really
• 11:44
  powerful because I, I found the same thing.
• 11:47
  I'll take my daughter on a walk in the afternoons.
• 11:50
  My kids will be either doing their homework at home or
• 11:52
  they're doing something in the backyard.
• 11:53
  And my wife is watching them and like, she wants to go on a walk
• 11:56
  in her stroller. And she says like, Hey, let's go
• 11:58
  on a walk. And I'm like.
• 12:00
  Yes. The gods have opened up and I'll
• 12:04
  turn, I'll open up my machine and I'll go get dispatch going
• 12:08
  while I'm walking, right? And I'm like, OK, now I can talk
• 12:11
  to the data. I can go get all these reports,
• 12:13
  all of this stuff while I'm walking.
• 12:15
  And we'll go for 45 minutes on a walk.
• 12:18
  Or maybe I would have talked to my mom or I talked to the
• 12:21
  information about the company. And I find so much stuff, right?
• 12:24
  So like I'll then draft in Slack messages, 345 emails.
• 12:29
  And I find that to be really impactful for my mental health
• 12:33
  actually more than anything, which is like, OK, I've had this
• 12:36
  singular time where I'm able to catch up and even get ahead.
• 12:41
  But you have to like, and I still haven't, by the way, done
• 12:43
  an incredible job of setting all of this architecture up to be
• 12:46
  able to do this. But Jeremiah, I think some of
• 12:50
  this is like you got the we all just got to let go of like
• 12:54
  everything being able to be done.
• 12:56
  It's like what is the highest leverage things two to three
• 12:59
  things that we can impact because like 7 trying to do 7 to
• 13:03
  8 things like you're never going to do an incredible job at it.
• 13:06
  And like the extra 2 ships point, the extra the rate
• 13:11
  limiter is there, right? I watched, my dad's an
• 13:13
  entrepreneur. I watched him and he'll probably
• 13:15
  watch this and talk some shit to me about this, but I watched him
• 13:18
  try to do like 15 things at once.
• 13:22
  He now he has a new business and he now would say, Hey, I'm only
• 13:25
  doing one or two things, but I'm doing them exceptionally well.
• 13:27
  And he had, you know, at his, at the height of his business, he
• 13:29
  had like 700 employees around the world.
• 13:31
  You know what I mean? Like he didn't have a small he
• 13:33
  didn't have a small business, but he was trying to do too much
• 13:37
  and he was never the best version of himself because he
• 13:40
  was doing that. I find when I am across too many
• 13:43
  things and I don't mean like I'm the person who knows is in the
• 13:47
  know. Like I'm driving too many things
• 13:49
  myself. Like they all they all get
• 13:52
  fucked and I'm the one left holding the bag here, which then
• 13:55
  cascades down to family to sell to this.
• 13:58
  That's why I got to 2:30. My body frame is not meant to be
• 14:00
  this big, but I was eating out of anxiety and all of this other
• 14:03
  shit. And like I have found that the
• 14:06
  more I focus on where I'm going to be the most valuable and then
• 14:10
  I am informed, right, but not responsible in the racy
• 14:14
  framework, if you will. I can be, I can be helpful, I
• 14:18
  can unlock things, but I'm not blocking things.
• 14:20
  And then that takes less mental bandwidth for me.
• 14:23
  OK, first of all, I disagree entirely with how you do things.
• 14:27
  Please tell me that's fine. I don't.
• 14:28
  I mean, that's. I think there's two.
• 14:30
  There's two. I mean, yes, that's exactly why
• 14:32
  we're here. And I guess that's like the
• 14:34
  that's like the character that I play on this show.
• 14:36
  But also you got to take a drink of whatever the hell Jack
• 14:39
  drinks, because Jack is just the most chill guy that I've
• 14:44
  interacted with in my life and he's running multiple
• 14:47
  businesses. I'm like, dude, how the hell is
• 14:51
  he running? That's fine, they're very small,
• 14:54
  but small doesn't change the fact that it takes focus and
• 14:57
  energy to. Bro small doesn't, small doesn't
• 15:01
  like it's just it's all energy dude, it's all energy.
• 15:04
  Exactly, dude. This is exactly the point.
• 15:06
  You're you're, you're dude. You're helping me right now.
• 15:09
  You're helping. You're helping me prove my
• 15:10
  point. Guys, you're making me blush.
• 15:15
  Yeah, it's all energy. This is, which is great, which
• 15:17
  is great. Like I, I want to be right, you
• 15:19
  know, It makes me feel good, feeds the ego, makes the head
• 15:22
  bigger, you know what I mean? I don't I don't think any of
• 15:25
  that's wrong. I guess what I'm saying is like
• 15:28
  it, everything about my point is my energy has been wrong.
• 15:31
  That's the entire point in the, the the crux of my entire
• 15:35
  argument is energy has been wrong.
• 15:37
  Outputs have not been great because of energy being wrong.
• 15:40
  You're saying, hey, look, Jack is having multiple businesses,
• 15:43
  energy is good. You're talking about your
• 15:45
  energy. I think Jeremiah and I are both
• 15:46
  saying like our energy is not aligned properly and it's
• 15:49
  affecting us. So like, I think we're all
• 15:51
  saying the same thing. But yeah, I think you do want to
• 15:54
  be right so. Like I, I think the thing that I
• 15:59
  get nervous about Chase is like when you say things like I need
• 16:03
  to be driving these things versus being informed, that's
• 16:06
  what makes me concerned. And the reason it makes me
• 16:08
  concerned is I don't think you want to delegate.
• 16:11
  Actually, I think if anything, what the reason you're saying
• 16:15
  that is you don't like delegating and that's fine.
• 16:18
  Like you can just be honest about that.
• 16:20
  I can be honest about that. Like, you know what I mean?
• 16:22
  Like we're going to just be honest about who we are and how
• 16:24
  we like to operate and that's totally fine.
• 16:26
  I think all it does is then say, OK, great.
• 16:30
  Given that I'm not going to be able to drive 10 things and I
• 16:32
  can drive 2, I just got to pick those two pretty well.
• 16:37
  And then I just got to get the allow the rest to go to 0.
• 16:41
  This idea that I'm going to delegate it to someone else and
• 16:43
  it will get taken care of. Bad idea.
• 16:46
  Yeah. That's not going to work.
• 16:48
  No, no offense to no offense to the people of the world.
• 16:52
  I. Don't think that it's.
• 16:53
  Just not. It's not going to happen.
• 16:56
  And so I, I think you should not even bother to be informed.
• 16:59
  I was like talking to Jeremiah about something right before
• 17:01
  this and I literally got told that I was being informed about
• 17:05
  something. I'm not going to describe what
• 17:08
  it is because it's, but Jeremiah can attest to this, right?
• 17:13
  I'm like not speaking out of two sides of my mouth.
• 17:16
  And I was upset that I was informed.
• 17:18
  I don't want to know. I don't want to hear.
• 17:20
  If it's not the one or two things that matter, don't talk
• 17:23
  to me. I like that.
• 17:25
  That's fair enough. That's fair enough.
• 17:28
  I have I have no problem backing down from the informed opinion
• 17:33
  and I'm going to I will report back on my two things in Yolo
• 17:39
  style of of of doing things and let the team run what they run
• 17:45
  by the way they do. They do that already.
• 17:47
  I think what what you're saying though is right, which is I, I
• 17:52
  don't want to delegate. And by not delegating, I can
• 17:56
  kind of keep my finger in a pot rather than just saying like,
• 17:59
  you know what this is going to be, what it's going to be.
• 18:01
  And like I'm going to just focus on the two highest leverage
• 18:04
  things that I can do in the business to drive it forward
• 18:06
  that no one else can do besides me.
• 18:08
  Exactly because guess what happens when Chase gets
• 18:10
  informed? Then I want to talk and I want
• 18:13
  to get into it and then I stop. Moment now.
• 18:15
  You want to send a little voice note, and then the voice note
• 18:18
  becomes a call and all of a sudden you're working on it.
• 18:22
  You know, is this therapy? Do I need to like send this to
• 18:27
  my to my insurance provider to let them know that like you guys
• 18:31
  are you like is my do I need to pay co-pay at this?
• 18:34
  I just need to understand because I literally you just you
• 18:40
  just you just curb stomp me man, because I definitely that
• 18:44
  definitely I've did it this week, did it yesterday.
• 18:49
  So yeah, I'm I've been I've been exposed guys, it's not good.
• 18:55
  I mean, I guess it's great. It's great.
• 18:57
  And maybe for the a good a good show, but.
• 19:00
  I would love to hear how you guys are actually use and I know
• 19:04
  it's you know what if you get into the details, it gets too
• 19:08
  intricate to like describe properly.
• 19:10
  But we never get tactical in this podcast, but we always talk
• 19:13
  about how we're using AI. So yeah, I'd love to hear how
• 19:17
  you guys are actually using it because it's always changing.
• 19:20
  I'm not sure about you guys and your workflows and how AI is
• 19:23
  involved in it, but for me, I feel like it's always changing.
• 19:27
  I'm kind of past the point of like toll switching, thank God.
• 19:31
  But I'm definitely like in the point where I'm realizing one of
• 19:35
  the, the, the pitfalls in my own workflow, I'll show you quickly.
• 19:40
  Like what I've got going here. I just, I use Corecode in
• 19:42
  terminal. I was like hooked up to
• 19:44
  everything. And one of the things that I
• 19:45
  realized, and this is on a very small scale, it's just like
• 19:48
  launching ads, sending emails, sending SMS and you know, code
• 19:52
  e-mail outreach, a bunch of like little things.
• 19:54
  It was that I realized that I was the bottleneck in all of
• 19:57
  them because I hadn't set them up to loop right.
• 20:00
  There were like certain tasks that required me to kind of push
• 20:03
  them further along. So now what I'm like in the
• 20:05
  workflow doing is realizing. How can I set this up so it
• 20:09
  doesn't rely and I don't like delegating either because like
• 20:11
  the problem with delegating is like this human error, some rate
• 20:15
  of human error, people will just fuck things up.
• 20:17
  Whereas if I can get a loop for like launching our new
• 20:19
  creatives, doing the research, getting them made a combination
• 20:23
  of like generation, but then also people like who are like
• 20:26
  specialists are doing certain things and then taking them into
• 20:29
  the platform and launched. Then I don't have the issue of
• 20:32
  somebody putting the wrong copy on because the copy is just like
• 20:35
  populated. So I'm, that's one of the things
• 20:38
  that I'm trying to get done now is like not requiring me push
• 20:42
  the snowball down the hill again because it's like it's in a
• 20:46
  loop, right? But yeah, I'm interested in what
• 20:48
  you guys are doing because I'm not doing any dispatch stuff
• 20:50
  for, you know, I see things in X sometimes.
• 20:53
  I'm like, wow, you guys are using AI in such interesting
• 20:55
  ways. But yeah, I don't have the time
• 20:57
  to jump into everyone else's workflows.
• 21:01
  I'd say we're we're pretty AI pills.
• 21:04
  And I mean, dude, the list is like so long, I'm not even sure
• 21:10
  where to start. But we use it to close our
• 21:13
  books. So like our our books went from
• 21:16
  being closed in eight days to being closed in two days.
• 21:18
  We use it to do content Gen. I use it for strategy build.
• 21:25
  I use it for context on what's going on in the company.
• 21:29
  So it's connected to all of our, Jeremy and I were also talking
• 21:31
  about this in a separate context, but I it's connected to
• 21:35
  all of our systems, including our own product.
• 21:38
  So like we have a Fermat MCP. And so I not only have all of
• 21:43
  the internal context, I have all of the product context, I have
• 21:45
  all the customer context. And so I can just like ask
• 21:49
  anything that I am thinking about, I can just say like, hey,
• 21:51
  I'm thinking about this strategy how it applied to our current
• 21:53
  customers. So it's a strategy thought
• 21:55
  partner. I like while I am swinging, my
• 21:58
  daughter will like build a deck for a customer.
• 22:01
  So I'll like talk about what I want to do.
• 22:04
  Then I'll like push it into cloud and then I'll push it into
• 22:06
  Moda. And then I'll just get back a
• 22:08
  link and it'll be like, OK, great.
• 22:09
  The deck is done and I'll send it to the customer like, and my
• 22:12
  daughter's getting swung, you know, And it's like, I think
• 22:15
  it's just like insane. Yeah.
• 22:17
  I think it's like every time I find myself thinking about
• 22:21
  anything, I stop myself and I say, why am I thinking?
• 22:25
  Like thinking should no longer be a human activity.
• 22:29
  Like pleasure, like our brains are much better served as
• 22:33
  pleasure centers and like joy and empath, like empathic
• 22:39
  centers, right? Like me hearing what Chase is
• 22:42
  doing, it is better for me to deploy my black brain as an
• 22:46
  empath and understand that he is like what is happening in his
• 22:52
  world is he's getting pulled into problems.
• 22:55
  And I can, it's like very clear to me that he's like a person
• 22:58
  who gets pulled into problems and wants to solve them.
• 23:00
  That's how I should spend my time.
• 23:02
  Humans should spend their time with other humans.
• 23:04
  And if I'm thinking about anything, something has gone
• 23:07
  awfully wrong, because computers should do that.
• 23:11
  Isn't there a limit to that? I'm curious what like generally
• 23:16
  what you think about that. Like there's a, I am of the
• 23:20
  opinion that there are a lot of things I shouldn't think about
• 23:23
  and there are other things I should definitely think about.
• 23:26
  And like I actually think of the AI and I'm curious what you guys
• 23:29
  think. But as a CEOI delegate, a lot of
• 23:33
  things I look at the AI as I'm going to delegate things to
• 23:38
  that. And there's more I can't
• 23:40
  delegate in that context, more things that I don't really want
• 23:44
  to think about that I've had to think about in the past because
• 23:47
  it just isn't something I can really delegate to somebody
• 23:49
  else. But now I can with the AI.
• 23:51
  But then there are other things that I sit there like I actually
• 23:53
  have moments where I'll try to start working through a problem
• 23:57
  with the AI and then be like, wait a minute, I actually just
• 24:00
  need to think about this because I'm going to run in circles if I
• 24:03
  try to use the machine to get me where I need to go on this.
• 24:06
  But I don't it sounds like maybe that is not your experience.
• 24:10
  I kind of coming from because like, I'm not sure you guys
• 24:14
  remember we spoke to, I think it was Mike from Postscript and
• 24:18
  there was, you know, one of the things I really wished existed
• 24:21
  in SMS was the ability to send the SMS at the right time as
• 24:25
  determined by the brain, with the right words, as determined
• 24:28
  by the brain. You know, obviously there has to
• 24:30
  be some sort of brand filter if you'd like your particular in
• 24:32
  that way. I'm not.
• 24:33
  I just want it to happen at the right time with all of the right
• 24:35
  considerations. How do I get somebody who just
• 24:37
  bought one of my products to buy another right?
• 24:40
  And I'm not the right person to make that decision because it
• 24:42
  depends on which product they bought 1st and what discounts
• 24:44
  they use. There's just so many variables
• 24:46
  there for a human to consider that I probably shouldn't think
• 24:49
  about it. And I imagine that the more
• 24:52
  complicated and the more important a decision is, the
• 24:55
  more of those variables there are, the more amount of like
• 24:58
  human time, expert human time it would take to answer them
• 25:02
  comprehensively. So I kind of, I kind of see
• 25:04
  where Rashad was coming from in that like some of the most
• 25:07
  complicated problems you literally just can't solve
• 25:09
  without software. You can't solve without a huge
• 25:12
  amount of leverage, right? That that has access to
• 25:15
  information that it can process so much faster than you can.
• 25:19
  Jeremiah, one thing I will suggest is, I mean, first of
• 25:22
  all, Jack, that's exactly how I think about it.
• 25:24
  But Jeremiah, something that I would suggest is when you find
• 25:28
  yourself in that moment, literally say to whatever Chachi
• 25:32
  PT cloud, whatever agent you're using, just say like, dude, come
• 25:35
  on, this is not the path. Like we need to be thinking
• 25:39
  about it this other way. I.
• 25:41
  Do that as well. I literally will say this stupid
• 25:44
  idea like you're like, this is not right.
• 25:47
  And like, Oh yeah, I didn't consider this, this and this.
• 25:49
  And I'm like, you have context on these four things.
• 25:53
  Consider the context. And I also have trained all of
• 25:58
  these things to tell me when I'm being dumb.
• 26:00
  And it'll be like, yo, dude, like they'll literally say like
• 26:02
  you are not thinking in the way that you should be thinking.
• 26:06
  Like this is these are the barriers that you already know
• 26:08
  exist. Why are you even suggesting
• 26:10
  this? But I, I, I have trained to say
• 26:13
  like, look, you need to tell me. I said, I say it all the time,
• 26:16
  every time I get into one of these deep discussions, you need
• 26:18
  to tell me when I'm being dumb or this is a bad idea or I'm off
• 26:20
  the path. And it, it gives it a very good
• 26:24
  frame to say, hey, look, we're processing at a faster clip than
• 26:26
  you. You're possibly emotional, tired
• 26:29
  maybe, and not thinking. You're not thinking straight.
• 26:33
  Here are the things that you need to consider.
• 26:34
  And it's even told me, Hey, put me down, take a walk.
• 26:39
  I'm not joking. Go to bed.
• 26:42
  Oh, that's awesome. It will literally say go to bed,
• 26:45
  right? And it's because it's like, you
• 26:48
  know, I'm going down the path. We're having the same
• 26:50
  conversation for 30 minutes, right?
• 26:52
  And I'm trying to get to some level of like, I need some
• 26:55
  certainty in this. And it's like, dude, you just
• 26:58
  got to make the decision with 8070% of the information.
• 27:01
  And like, that's the, I think the thing I would come back to
• 27:05
  is like, you know, you suck has talked about like opinion based
• 27:07
  decisions, right? And that's the magic of people.
• 27:11
  It's like there are some opinions, strong opinions that
• 27:13
  you have. So like Rishab, you shared some
• 27:15
  strong opinions with me earlier. You're right, actually about it.
• 27:17
  I could, I could change on a dime like that, But that's the
• 27:21
  empath part of the side that you're talking about.
• 27:23
  Whereas processing large swaths of data like you remember the
• 27:27
  old days doing growth marketing 10-15 years ago, you're in a
• 27:31
  spreadsheet, you're looking at it, you're going into, you're
• 27:34
  going into like Amplitude and you're trying to figure it out.
• 27:37
  Dude, I plug in post hog and all this other shit into, into Co
• 27:42
  work. And I'm sitting there like, hey,
• 27:43
  I'm trying to solve this problem.
• 27:45
  What's the activation? What's daily journal looking
• 27:47
  like on this? What's this, What's that?
• 27:48
  I'm stacking 5 tools together and in like 15 minutes, 10
• 27:52
  minutes, it gives me this whole report and I go back to the team
• 27:55
  and I'm like, guys, look, I this is this experiment we're running
• 27:58
  is absolutely cooked. We need to go and do these three
• 28:01
  things. Would never have been able to
• 28:03
  figure those things out without a data scientist sitting with
• 28:06
  me. Me sitting with it for days
• 28:08
  trying to figure out the data and still not actually being
• 28:11
  certain because I have not been able to stack four or five
• 28:14
  different sources of sources of truth into a singular source of
• 28:18
  truth, right? I mean, you guys remember that
• 28:20
  like I can't, I can't even remember the platform it was
• 28:22
  because I haven't used it and so on.
• 28:24
  But like you would sit with the data scientist and then you'd
• 28:26
  export the CSV and you'd go test it yourself.
• 28:29
  And you're like, you guys have my confidence level on this.
• 28:32
  Like, let's run a regression, dude, fuck off.
• 28:34
  Like just let let AI do that kind of stuff.
• 28:37
  But your brain and working through the human side of the
• 28:40
  problem, that's where you need to spend all of your time.
• 28:43
  And that for me, that's where I found the highest leverage.
• 28:45
  And so I've been outsourcing all data analysis and all that.
• 28:49
  And I found that to make me much better at making quick, not
• 28:54
  fast, but quick decisions that I feel have high impact and high
• 28:57
  leverage. So data has been the biggest
• 28:59
  unlock and, and working with data and working through the
• 29:02
  team with data. They're also, and, and this is
• 29:05
  probably a thing I've been too, too deep on, but like
• 29:07
  understanding like with the velocity of our road map, like,
• 29:11
  because like I'm not a, I'm not a, I'm not an engineer.
• 29:15
  I'm trying to get to like, how do I stage marketing and GTM
• 29:18
  with the velocity of the road map?
• 29:20
  And so I've been using AI to understand like, hey, look, what
• 29:22
  are timelines? What are the cycles looking
• 29:24
  like? How close are we to actual in in
• 29:27
  market product that we feel good about?
• 29:30
  Guys, I don't want to get too tactical, but in case anyone's
• 29:32
  listening and they, they find this helpful.
• 29:36
  One of the things that I've found really useful recently, we
• 29:39
  have an agency customer that came on and wanted a TikTok
• 29:41
  shops integration and an Amazon integration and like thank God
• 29:45
  it could do it. It was just asking it to try and
• 29:49
  do it all independently and making sure that it had
• 29:51
  connections. So like I've got agent browser,
• 29:53
  playwright and you know, computer use all set up so they
• 29:55
  can use it freely. It's set up using, you know, the
• 29:59
  business registration docs, Amazon and TikTok shock
• 30:03
  integration from start to finish independently.
• 30:06
  I thought, you know, I was going to need me to go and upload
• 30:09
  those files. No, it didn't.
• 30:10
  It could go and do it, but I was just like, you know, I, I used
• 30:14
  to back when I was building in cursor smoke test myself.
• 30:18
  I'm not sure if you guys do this.
• 30:20
  You build and then you go and check the app and see that it's
• 30:21
  like nothing's broken. You know, visually look for
• 30:24
  regressions and I built this like QA skill and it will use
• 30:27
  agent browser to go and open it up and test everything,
• 30:30
  everything through the app. It's probably really token
• 30:32
  hungry, but fuck it, who cares? And checks for every single
• 30:36
  functionality in the app to see if there's any regressions
• 30:39
  whatsoever, right? And just running that multiple
• 30:41
  times gives me so much confidence that we're not like
• 30:43
  accidentally breaking stuff when we layer something else on top.
• 30:47
  So I'm, I think that for, for me, I guess the, the little
• 30:50
  thing that I'm taking away from, from that and I'm realizing more
• 30:53
  recently is just like, if, if I have this conception that I'm
• 30:58
  involved in some way, I have to just like forget about that and
• 31:02
  ask it to do it independently and ask it what it needs to do
• 31:05
  it independently without me, right.
• 31:07
  So, yeah, I thought it was pretty cool.
• 31:09
  I'll take talk shops integrations like done.
• 31:12
  Hungry, that's the that's the first line.
• 31:14
  Got to get a token hungry kind of hoodie and hats and stuff
• 31:18
  like that. I think that would that would go
• 31:20
  off. Especially now with the, you
• 31:23
  know, the new models, it's just going to get more and more
• 31:25
  hungry. I just, you know, I saw it
• 31:27
  upgraded to 4.7 and I set like it to Max.
• 31:31
  I was like use as much resources as possible.
• 31:33
  I have no idea what that's going to look like in terms of token
• 31:36
  usage, but. You already, you're already
• 31:38
  maxed out. You got to upgrade now.
• 31:39
  It's already done. Yeah, I think that's right
• 31:45
  though about about the QA system.
• 31:47
  We definitely have that as well to smoke test ourselves, but
• 31:51
  automatically. Yeah.
• 31:52
  What's the latest in the biz? Like what are what are you
• 31:54
  spending your time thinking about?
• 31:56
  How are you thinking about the business?
• 31:57
  How do you think it should change or adapt given that AI is
• 31:59
  a thing? Yeah.
• 32:01
  So we're performance creative platform.
• 32:04
  I think one thing that I learned over the last call year is
• 32:09
  Canvan, Figma and Adobe will eat kind of the horizontal part of
• 32:16
  all of these creative businesses.
• 32:17
  And they just have too much scale and too much distribution
• 32:21
  to try to fight them across kind of a full like a, a full life
• 32:25
  cycle of all the customers that they can possibly touch.
• 32:28
  I also know Sigma's internal ad spend and like, I'm not going to
• 32:33
  say it out loud because a friend of mine who works there totally,
• 32:34
  but like, Oh my God, there's no, there's no competing with that.
• 32:39
  So, but being focused vertically on full funnel creative from end
• 32:44
  to end for performance marketing, we definitely can
• 32:47
  compete there. Yes, there's a lot of players in
• 32:48
  there, but a lot of people focus on generation.
• 32:51
  They focus on inspiration, they focus on analytics.
• 32:53
  They're not focused on the loop of like, how do you take
• 32:55
  something a spark of an idea and turn it into a finished asset
• 32:59
  that is data backed and informed.
• 33:01
  And So what we've been focused on is that loop, right?
• 33:05
  We call it we, we personally, we call it the the creative loop.
• 33:07
  How do you take spark of an idea and use AI to build a workflow
• 33:11
  that turns into a finished asset?
• 33:13
  And whether you are Co creating with AI or you are solo creating
• 33:17
  with like some AI augmentation along the way, you're able to do
• 33:20
  that really seamlessly in a way that feels like super impactful
• 33:25
  to you. Because like what we've learned
• 33:27
  or what I've learned is I had a hypothesis that people want to
• 33:31
  create and then they want to augment.
• 33:32
  And there, there is that customer, but you also have to
• 33:35
  have the one that the beachhead is, hey, I want to generate and
• 33:39
  then I want to optimize versus I want to optimize and then I want
• 33:42
  to generate from there. And like my core thesis for a
• 33:45
  long time was like people want to have some level of control at
• 33:48
  the beginning. And what I found is like, there
• 33:51
  are multiple versions of this, just like there are multiple
• 33:53
  people in this conversation will have different opinions.
• 33:55
  And so we've kind of said, OK, we know we can do the one.
• 33:59
  That's my opinion, obviously, but we need to have the second
• 34:03
  one, which is more important in the market today, I believe,
• 34:07
  which is I want to generate and then I want to customize.
• 34:09
  So like we just launched what we called AI Lab has about 10 tools
• 34:14
  in it right now. We're in the process of turning
• 34:16
  that into kind of a workflow solution.
• 34:18
  So you have a workflow builder where you can essentially run an
• 34:20
  agent through all of them and all you have to do is say, hey,
• 34:22
  I'm running this ad or I like this inspiration, kind of run
• 34:25
  this whole workflow with that. And I'll be coming out in the
• 34:27
  next next month or so. We built an iteration engine
• 34:31
  where you can take any asset that you've made and turn it
• 34:33
  into 15 and they'll either be like bizarro ads.
• 34:36
  You can kind of choose the configuration.
• 34:38
  I think what we're leaning into is generation is not a unique
• 34:44
  value property more it's not it, it hasn't been for a while.
• 34:48
  And you can do this on multiple places.
• 34:50
  What we believe is like taste and quality will become more and
• 34:55
  more important as time goes on. And so we want to be a place
• 34:58
  that facilitates that as you run your process.
• 35:01
  So it's, it's a competition. Definitely.
• 35:05
  There are a lot of amazing players in the space.
• 35:07
  I've used every single one of those tools and they all do a
• 35:10
  singular thing well, but they don't string together a process
• 35:13
  very well. So like Canada had a big
• 35:15
  announcement, by the way, and they're thinking about a lot of
• 35:17
  this stuff. They, they did a big thing at
• 35:19
  their, their annual event yesterday.
• 35:22
  And so they're definitely think about how AI can augment
• 35:25
  creative work flows. Another company called Flora
• 35:28
  raised like 44,000,000 for this. They're more of like a like a
• 35:31
  venture, another venture, excuse me, an enterprise kind of
• 35:34
  workflow creative workspace that like essentially has like an
• 35:37
  open router style where they that you can use different
• 35:39
  models and build workflows, etcetera.
• 35:41
  What I'm seeing is in the same way that we're all talking about
• 35:45
  using MCPS and using Co work and connecting a bunch of things,
• 35:49
  people want to do that either in Claude or they want your product
• 35:52
  to be able to facilitate some version of that.
• 35:55
  And like the dissonance is if you're kind of one of these old
• 35:58
  systems that just you have to do things at one at a time, you're
• 36:01
  going to be left behind. But if you have either tool set
• 36:03
  that can work ambiently in one of these, one of these IDs or
• 36:08
  you go and do that yourself, you have a lot of impact that you
• 36:10
  can have for a customer. But today we almost have to
• 36:15
  forget creative OS for a second. We have to, in general,
• 36:18
  understand the way that people are thinking about doing work
• 36:22
  differently. And so I find that people are
• 36:24
  thinking workflows a lot more now than they ever did before.
• 36:27
  Right. Yeah.
• 36:28
  I wonder just directly off of that last point, are you
• 36:33
  building for someone to use you through cloud or do you expect
• 36:37
  them to log into your software? What I'm what we're doing is
• 36:41
  making sure that someone logs into our software and it works
• 36:46
  seamlessly so that when we plug it into Claude, it's not a
• 36:50
  question that it's going to work exactly the same.
• 36:52
  So the kind of kind of those called 90 day vision of all of
• 36:58
  this is like we finished kind of this first tool set in workflow
• 37:01
  build. And then we, you know, we flick
• 37:03
  on being able to run it in cursor Claude or whatever, you
• 37:07
  know, anti gravity, whatever you want to do it in.
• 37:09
  And we've been testing it ourselves.
• 37:12
  Has anyone used anti gravity? Terrible, terrible product.
• 37:15
  Can't believe, yeah. Yeah, it's, it's OK.
• 37:17
  Like it definitely is kind of the same thing I've been feeling
• 37:21
  about all the stuff that's been coming out of Google app
• 37:23
  recently is like it's like 70% of the way there.
• 37:26
  Whatever Nano banana is great. Yes, everything needs to be used
• 37:33
  to be able to be used in the AI systems, not us.
• 37:37
  We had such an interesting time because like there were so many
• 37:41
  people who are have really interesting, compelling
• 37:45
  businesses that have been serving people for a while and
• 37:48
  are completely redesigning their businesses right now.
• 37:50
  I remember Chase when I first heard of Creative OS, it was
• 37:53
  back when you had that like gradient beautiful color
• 37:56
  background thing on the website. And I was an agency.
• 37:59
  I was consulting for a couple of agencies and we were, you know,
• 38:03
  doing a lot of research that goes into Canva templates, then
• 38:07
  goes into made ads for the brands that we were working
• 38:09
  with. We found you guys and we're
• 38:11
  like, oh, wait, we can just download it from here.
• 38:13
  We can just work with creative OS and we've got production
• 38:17
  solved, right. It is very pragmatic solution
• 38:20
  oriented product. But I imagine now like looking
• 38:24
  forward to over the next 90 days and the vision of the product
• 38:27
  you're describing now is completely different.
• 38:30
  So it's yeah, it's an exciting time, you know, seeing everyone
• 38:33
  like re imagine what their businesses are going to look
• 38:35
  like and how much more productive and helpful they
• 38:37
  could be because that that use case before image ad generation
• 38:40
  and stuff was really useful at the time.
• 38:43
  Now this is, you know. Be able to like just using us as
• 38:48
  an analogue, like we made a a play to have a in platform
• 38:53
  editor for people to be able to use.
• 38:56
  But why are we stopping people from just making things
• 38:59
  anywhere, right? Like that's a that's an old
• 39:01
  like, hey, we're going to own this thing and it's going to
• 39:03
  live here. It's like, no, like people want
• 39:05
  to build the way they want to build.
• 39:07
  You have to be configurable and like kind of have a set of Legos
• 39:11
  that you let people build with. And if they choose your three
• 39:14
  pieces of red Lego to be a part of their workflow because they
• 39:18
  love their workflow so much, you're, I don't want to say
• 39:21
  you're safe because you're never safe.
• 39:22
  You have to have an amazing product and have a, you know,
• 39:24
  like a value generation has to be there, but you become a part
• 39:27
  of the way that they think about business rather than like their,
• 39:30
  their PNL, if you will. So that's been a, it's like, I
• 39:34
  don't want to say like that's what a kick in the teeth for me
• 39:36
  because like there's a whole old way that you think about, hey,
• 39:39
  I'm going to have a platform. They're going to come here,
• 39:41
  they're going to do this thing on here.
• 39:43
  Instead of saying, hey, look, they're using these things to
• 39:46
  get an outcome and everything is outcome based.
• 39:48
  How can I be part of their outcome and make sure that they
• 39:52
  feel that we are valuable, part of a valuable cog in the machine
• 39:56
  of their outcome? Because that's the only thing
• 39:57
  anyone is after, right? That's the alpha you're after.
• 40:00
  You have an outcome in mind. What are the things not even
• 40:03
  platforms not but like the things that I need to be
• 40:06
  building blocks to that outcome in the most efficient high
• 40:09
  leverage value way that's possible.
• 40:11
  And like I was backwards on that for a while transparently with
• 40:13
  you, like I you kind of figure it out as you go along, but the
• 40:17
  market is telling us what what we need to be doing and we need
• 40:21
  to respond with a lot of velocity.
• 40:23
  I've got a question for you guys and Jeremiah.
• 40:26
  Sorry, Bashar, I saw you shaking your head, so I want to hear
• 40:28
  what you're thinking about what Chase just said.
• 40:30
  But my question is, do you think that there's value in.
• 40:34
  Yeah, well, it was, it was. It was, you know, different
• 40:37
  directions depending on the part of the your.
• 40:42
  But yeah, do you think that there's value in people
• 40:46
  replacing increasingly specialist roles, human roles?
• 40:53
  Because like right now at least that's what I'm spending a fair
• 40:56
  amount of time doing, is like, how can I not do this myself
• 40:59
  anymore? And how can I not have to
• 41:01
  delegate this anymore so that it doesn't, you know, have the
• 41:04
  chance of human error? But yeah, I wonder if and what
• 41:07
  that was. One of the value props of
• 41:09
  Creative OS initially when we were first customers was that
• 41:13
  you'd done everything, you know, as a production suite.
• 41:16
  You would basically taking it all the way up into the end
• 41:18
  before personalization to the brands that we were working
• 41:21
  with. So, yeah, I wonder do you guys
• 41:25
  think like pragmatically if somebody was there going, how do
• 41:28
  I reshape this that like addressing really high value
• 41:32
  functions in a business that are currently expensive individuals,
• 41:36
  is that like an opportunity? That's a hard question because I
• 41:40
  would say that specialist roles are going away anyway.
• 41:43
  Like the, the most like simplistic way of thinking about
• 41:47
  this is engineering, product design are all becoming one.
• 41:50
  And there's this like three-way Mexican standoff of like which
• 41:52
  one is left. And so like I, I'm just like not
• 41:55
  even sure what it means to be a specialist role anymore because
• 42:01
  like, look, obviously the top 1% of any specialist role is always
• 42:06
  super valuable. Yeah, that is like always the
• 42:09
  case. But the big screw up with AI is
• 42:12
  that everyone is a 90 percentile of any given specialist role and
• 42:17
  therefore the most important people in your organ.
• 42:20
  I'm going to talk about org design.
• 42:22
  I promise it's answering your question, Jack.
• 42:26
  I think the problem, the opportunity with AI not problem
• 42:30
  the opportunity with AI is now people who are just high agency,
• 42:38
  high grit and high horsepower can just do everything
• 42:42
  themselves. Actually, not sort of.
• 42:48
  Actually, I never used to know how to build a deck, OK?
• 42:51
  Like it was not in my skill set. I have no design competence
• 42:55
  whatsoever. I don't need it anymore.
• 42:59
  I can produce a plenty nice deck, right?
• 43:02
  Because it turns out that hitting the 90th percentile mark
• 43:05
  is trivial with these different AI tools.
• 43:08
  Hitting the 99th percentile mark is not easy, right?
• 43:11
  And so those like people who are exceptional will always be
• 43:16
  exceptional and they will always push the field.
• 43:18
  And a statistical piece of software will never push the
• 43:21
  like, there's all of those things that are still true, but
• 43:23
  the, the, the 90th percentile is easy.
• 43:27
  And so all organizations are going to look, I don't know if
• 43:31
  you guys have seen this like Jack Dorsey thing about like how
• 43:34
  the new organization is built, but there are no specialist
• 43:37
  roles. There are people who are like,
• 43:40
  how do we steer this thing? And then there are people who
• 43:43
  are based on where AI hits a bottleneck, how do we help it
• 43:46
  execute and what do I need to do to execute, which is mostly
• 43:49
  human style stuff. And that's basically it.
• 43:55
  And then there's the people who are helping the other people
• 43:57
  become more AI native, like player coach style.
• 44:01
  But there's no special. Like if anything, I think the
• 44:04
  specialist is like gone no matter what.
• 44:08
  And so I'm not sure there's like a big business to be built to
• 44:12
  like if you're singularly worrying about a single
• 44:15
  specialist role per SE. That's why Harvey does not worry
• 44:18
  about a single specialist role. They say they come into a legal
• 44:20
  organization and say we'll identify your org and it means a
• 44:24
  bunch of different things. And yeah, along the way, roles
• 44:28
  will get reduced, but they're not sitting there saying, hey,
• 44:30
  we're going to replace your paralegal.
• 44:32
  Like that's not what they say. They say we're going to come in
• 44:34
  and identify the whole organization, right.
• 44:38
  And so like, it's a, it's a, it's a very different
• 44:41
  proposition to say we're going to identify organization than it
• 44:44
  is to say we're going to worry about this role.
• 44:46
  I think the worrying about the role thing is like a yeah, I
• 44:50
  think, I think it's too narrow given the whole org has been
• 44:54
  reshaped anyway. And in fact, if you look at my,
• 44:57
  I mean, my own hiring, if I were to inspect my own hiring, I'm
• 45:01
  just trying to find like smart high agency people who will do
• 45:05
  stuff. I'm like kind of indifferent to
• 45:08
  what they are particularly good at.
• 45:10
  What? Do you think, Jeremy, I couldn't
• 45:12
  agree more. I think it's maybe a little bit
• 45:15
  less about the role and more about the the business case that
• 45:18
  the individual was solving for and solving for that with your
• 45:21
  software, right. One of the things separate from
• 45:25
  being able to execute AI being able to execute in a way that
• 45:27
  paralegal is able to execute is actually having accountability
• 45:31
  for the outcome, right? Because if if you come into an
• 45:34
  org and you say, yeah, well, you know, we're going to identify
• 45:36
  everything, but then nothing gets done.
• 45:38
  And and you know, the AI isn't accountable for the job that it
• 45:41
  just augmented or replaced, then, you know, I can, I can see
• 45:46
  customers being unhappy. But yeah, what do you, what do
• 45:49
  you think, Germa? I don't really have any anything
• 45:53
  additional to add to that specifically.
• 45:54
  I think the I guess one thing though that I was thinking about
• 45:57
  is Jack, you're talking about basically like rethinking the
• 46:01
  products that we have today and how that looks for the future,
• 46:05
  all that. I think one thing that's really
• 46:08
  struck me is every time I think about like, what's one step
• 46:12
  ahead of where we are today, I look at what AI is moving
• 46:17
  towards and I think about how like that stuff's not enough.
• 46:20
  And then the step after that might not be enough.
• 46:22
  And the step after that might not be enough.
• 46:23
  It's like how there's like this weird thing now where it's like
• 46:26
  how, how long can you stay one step ahead?
• 46:32
  And when do you get to the point where it doesn't matter?
• 46:35
  And that's the thing that I'm thinking about a lot.
• 46:38
  So anyway, a little bit, a little bit of a kind of going
• 46:41
  back a bit, but I don't know, like we were talking about it
• 46:47
  replacing roles. And like I said, I'm just
• 46:48
  thinking about like, at what point does it even the thing
• 46:52
  that we're building even matter? And how do you, how do you think
• 46:55
  about that? I don't know what you guys are.
• 46:57
  I'm curious what you guys, how you guys are thinking about that
• 47:00
  problem Because you can see almost always there's like a
• 47:03
  step, that next step you take. There's something that can come
• 47:07
  after that as well. And so like what?
• 47:10
  How do you think about that path?
• 47:12
  I like this idea of hiring for high agency people because one
• 47:16
  of the I tried to tell my team was if you can automate this,
• 47:19
  you're still going to get paid for it as if you were doing it
• 47:21
  yourself. But if you can automate it so
• 47:23
  that it happens without you and you can focus on other things,
• 47:26
  then that would be that would be great, right?
• 47:28
  I would really, you know, you'll build that leverage into the
• 47:31
  business and you'll be able to, you know, go and focus on other
• 47:34
  things and you're still going to get paid as if you were doing
• 47:36
  all of these different jobs. I pay on a exclusively pay per
• 47:39
  project basis and then get something on that is of some
• 47:42
  value and you get paid. So you know, the idea behind
• 47:46
  automating these things is that they can potentially stack as
• 47:49
  many automations as possible. Problem is no one's automating
• 47:52
  all that much. There's only like a couple
• 47:54
  people or automating a bunch of stuff and I'm very appreciative
• 47:56
  of. That I think, I think you guys
• 48:00
  heard, I think I forget he was on 20 VCs podcast.
• 48:03
  Marc Andreessen was talking about how when you measure the
• 48:07
  output of what people are doing, they're not doing less work.
• 48:10
  They're actually working more now than they did beforehand
• 48:13
  because they feel essentially like that.
• 48:15
  They have, you know, octopus tentacles with the ability to
• 48:18
  actually get get shit done. And so back to the Grisha's
• 48:23
  original point, high agency people are the actual leverage
• 48:28
  point here. I, I don't actually think, I
• 48:31
  think organizations are just going to get more efficient,
• 48:33
  effective and, and have better velocity and what they're trying
• 48:37
  to do. And it's less about the people.
• 48:39
  It's more about making people into AI, native, AI native
• 48:43
  builders and making sure that they understand that it's, it's
• 48:48
  not about we want to get rid of you.
• 48:50
  It's like we want to empower you to actually be the best version
• 48:54
  of yourself for this company against the goal.
• 48:56
  What we've gold for the company. And then you just have to be
• 49:00
  like, as a leader, you have to be really clear about what your,
• 49:03
  what your actual goal is, right. And so in all the companies that
• 49:07
  I've either advised in, worked in, or built myself, clarity is
• 49:15
  the actual place where Alpha is created.
• 49:18
  If you know what you want to do and you know what you need to do
• 49:22
  to get there, then it's about just saying, hey, look, what
• 49:24
  tools do we have to make this happen?
• 49:26
  We have people and we have AI. How do we take AI and say 80% of
• 49:30
  this crap work that you need to do, you shouldn't do, right?
• 49:34
  So you're going to spend the next 3-6, whatever, how one week
• 49:37
  to six months, whatever it takes to make sure that the highest
• 49:40
  leverage thing that needs your brain to do or your time because
• 49:44
  you need to be in front of people.
• 49:46
  That's what you're doing. But you're doing it with 100% of
• 49:49
  yourself rather than 10% of yourself because that's what all
• 49:53
  of us do. It's literally was the 1st 20
• 49:55
  minutes of our conversation. Chase.
• 49:56
  Why the fuck are you spending 5 1/2 hours of sleep and putting
• 50:01
  your fingers in pots that you don't need to do?
• 50:03
  Right? So like, you know, this is full
• 50:05
  circle, man. This is this is where we were
• 50:07
  meant to get to in this entire conversation.
• 50:11
  Someone tell me why I'm wrong, but I used to describe this as
• 50:14
  the difference between an employee and a business owner.
• 50:16
  And, you know, I've met some people who are like very
• 50:19
  important in their jobs. You know, they're very senior,
• 50:22
  but they don't have an assistant, right?
• 50:25
  And they're doing mundane, annoying things that take up
• 50:29
  their time that really don't need to take up their time,
• 50:31
  right? Like, I don't know, managing
• 50:33
  their inbox or whatever. A lot of things, they're just
• 50:36
  100% margin on their salaries because they couldn't be a
• 50:40
  business. They couldn't employ someone to
• 50:42
  handle all of the stuff that they don't want to do, right?
• 50:45
  I don't think it's, you know, interesting these people have
• 50:46
  teams that they've been like told that they're supposed to
• 50:50
  build. And those people are obviously
• 50:51
  represent some leverage in their in their business and in their
• 50:54
  teams, but still no assistant, right?
• 50:57
  And maybe they should have at least 5.
• 50:59
  Right, yeah, I don't have an assistant, but I just also don't
• 51:02
  check my inbox unless. That works.
• 51:06
  Consider a high leverage for the most it's just like.
• 51:09
  They'll text me if they have a problem.
• 51:11
  Like that's that that's been my, my, my learning is they'll call
• 51:15
  text me or slack me if there's something really important
• 51:17
  that's in the inbox. I mean, I still, I still have
• 51:21
  AII do the collage summaries, right?
• 51:23
  Like you just say, Hey, what's in my inbox?
• 51:25
  What what actually needs my attention and what's against
• 51:29
  these kind of things that I'm that I'm actually thinking about
• 51:31
  Every once in a while it gives me something that I missed.
• 51:34
  For the most part. It's just, you know, it's just
• 51:37
  people are CC me for no reason. I've been telling people to
• 51:39
  actually take me off CC now for that reason.
• 51:42
  Do. You guys know someone who is
• 51:44
  like a high performer and they just, they're doing everything
• 51:47
  themselves and there's parts of their job that they slug through
• 51:50
  and they don't like. And they really should delegate
• 51:53
  them out so that they can focus on the thing that only they can
• 51:55
  do. But they're not going to do it
• 51:56
  because that's not the way that their job works and that's not
• 51:58
  the way that things are. And they're not used to
• 52:00
  employing people unless they've been told to employ someone.
• 52:03
  So I think that that's like just such a massive difference
• 52:06
  between between, you know, two types of per person, right?
• 52:10
  Somebody who's going to use as much leverage as possible,
• 52:13
  whether it's AI and actually open it up and find ways that
• 52:16
  they could make things easier for themselves or use people the
• 52:19
  old fashioned way, right? Just make sure that shit's
• 52:21
  getting done and it's not all on their shoulders, all right?
• 52:25
  Well, dude, like we're sitting here and we're all AI pilled and
• 52:29
  we're all in the groups of people who are AI pilled.
• 52:31
  So like, we think that this is the world.
• 52:34
  It's not yet like it will be, but there are hundreds of
• 52:38
  millions of people that are not doing anything that we're
• 52:41
  saying. And they're like watching the
• 52:43
  news Me like, Oh well, like Claude, is that a guy in France?
• 52:47
  You know what I mean? Like they, they, they have no,
• 52:48
  they have no idea what what we're talking about.
• 52:51
  That's not a bad thing. That's how technology goes.
• 52:53
  It's the bell curve of innovation, right?
• 52:54
  We're still very early in this game.
• 52:56
  It just feels because of our Twitter feeds or our X feeds.
• 52:59
  Excuse me, that like this is everything.
• 53:03
  No, like my wife works in a big company.
• 53:05
  They just now were said like, Hey, you should start thinking
• 53:10
  about possibly maybe using ChatGPT to do some of your work,
• 53:15
  right? Maybe if you want, here's a
• 53:18
  license. You are not required to do it
• 53:20
  because we're up. We're up.
• 53:21
  We're doing this other into like integration into the work that
• 53:25
  we're doing. Yeah, it's totally true.
• 53:28
  Yeah. On that note, I'm sorry, guys, I
• 53:30
  really got to run, but I got to be somewhere else at 12.
• 53:33
  But I completely agree with this.
• 53:35
  I was telling Jeremiah like we were talking about something
• 53:39
  else. And even in our own world, just
• 53:43
  to be clear, this is happening. So it's not like our world has
• 53:47
  this, but like our world, like more broad, the ones that we all
• 53:53
  touch. I can tell you with high
• 53:55
  confidence that there are people who, like, you know, they
• 53:57
  haven't even downloaded Cloud yet.
• 53:58
  So yeah, dude, this was this is amazing.
• 54:05
  Yeah. Thank you guys.
• 54:06
  This is a pleasure. To come, yeah.
• 54:08
  So the reason economic impacts stuff around AI like that they
• 54:10
  wouldn't use. They go in the interview, big
• 54:12
  companies for the most part, and they ask them these questions
• 54:16
  and the the economists will say it's not having any impact on
• 54:20
  jobs, but it's because the people they're talking to
• 54:23
  haven't thought about implementing it yet.
• 54:25
  Yeah, yeah. Like you can't even like think
• 54:28
  about what the impact on employment will be with this
• 54:30
  technology when your data point is companies that haven't even
• 54:34
  figured out. How to do anything?
• 54:37
  They don't have any. I mean there's no like I have a
• 54:39
  buddy who runs a like an enterprise AI implementation
• 54:43
  company and he's been doing it for like 5 years now.
• 54:45
  So he was very early on it and they like they crush.
• 54:49
  And his whole thing is like, the actual challenge is we do a year
• 54:53
  long engagement and it's six months of us just being like,
• 54:56
  Hey, you thought about this and thought about that.
• 54:59
  And people are like, fuck, you get out of here.
• 55:01
  And they don't understand the the entire job isn't it's like
• 55:07
  every time I talk to people about AI.
• 55:09
  And so like, first of all, let me just say this.
• 55:11
  I am very anti replacing people. I do not believe in it.
• 55:16
  I would say this if worship was here right now.
• 55:17
  I am not a fan of this. I want people to work.
• 55:21
  Idle hands are an absolute disaster, right?
• 55:25
  I want more people to be at work and having a purpose and having
• 55:30
  a way that they're able to support their families.
• 55:32
  Universal basic. I don't believe in any issue,
• 55:35
  right? Like exceptionalism and
• 55:37
  meritocracy still is the best way that we can do any of the
• 55:40
  things that we do. And what I believe is either
• 55:44
  companies will have higher output with AI and people
• 55:47
  augmented, or there will be just more companies, right?
• 55:51
  And we'll find a democratization on like, hey, look, we're just
• 55:53
  going to have a lot more personalized companies.
• 55:54
  And those people who maybe have been pushed out, like Disney
• 55:57
  just had a huge layoff, right? A bunch of marketing executives
• 56:00
  at Disney. And it's only because I'm in LA,
• 56:02
  My wife used to work at Disney. Like this is a thing and I used
• 56:05
  to be in film. It's like, OK, Disney is a is
• 56:07
  like a thing in my mind. Those people are going to find
• 56:10
  jobs. It's not a question.
• 56:11
  They're going to they're all high agency smart people.
• 56:13
  They're going to figure it out because human beings have
• 56:16
  survived for millions of years in much worse conditions than
• 56:21
  oh, AI is going to be a problem. And for me actually, of all of
• 56:25
  the things around AI, the actual thing I'm worried about is the
• 56:27
  energy grid. Not pay as a team going to be
• 56:30
  able to augment themselves with AI.
• 56:32
  It's like 2. We actually have the power set
• 56:34
  up because we haven't fixed our, and I, I'm getting way too
• 56:36
  political on this, but like we haven't fixed our energy
• 56:38
  infrastructure in like 60 years. So we're running AI systems that
• 56:42
  are meant for 2026 and beyond on stuff that was built in 1946.
• 56:46
  So like it. Wasn't a good incentive to
• 56:48
  update it. Right.
• 56:49
  Well, that's oh, absolutely. That's what this is one of the
• 56:51
  other kind of gold rushes no one talks about right now.
• 56:53
  It's like, if you can find a way to fund energy infrastructure
• 56:57
  bills, like that is a huge impact that in satellites.
• 57:02
  And so I, I agree with you. They're they're asking people
• 57:05
  who have not even thought about it.
• 57:07
  And I still think we're not like, I would say this to our
• 57:09
  team. And it may be more of maybe me
• 57:11
  like trying to pump them up. I'm like, guys, we haven't even
• 57:14
  left the locker room yet. We're not even on the field.
• 57:17
  We haven't taken our warm up like suits off yet.
• 57:19
  We're not even in the game. I think AI is very much at the
• 57:22
  same place. What I do want people to be
• 57:24
  thoughtful about is like replacing people is not actually
• 57:28
  a good thing. It will lead to a lot more
• 57:30
  problems. If you look at every single
• 57:32
  problematic time in the course of human history, it's because
• 57:35
  people didn't have jobs and people didn't have food.
• 57:38
  So let's not take away jobs. Let's augment people so they
• 57:41
  feel more empowered. And so that's, that's, I mean,
• 57:44
  that's my wish for the world. I know everyone is pitching, you
• 57:47
  don't need a designer. You don't need this.
• 57:48
  No, man, you still need a designer.
• 57:50
  They still need to have a certain POV.
• 57:52
  But maybe that designer doesn't need to sit there and be like,
• 57:55
  hey, I need to apply this brand kit to this asset.
• 57:58
  It's like it's already applied. But if we just do this, that
• 58:02
  will cut through. And that's the, for me, that's
• 58:05
  the job of a human is to say what is the, the true unique
• 58:08
  thing that we can do? Because computers and like
• 58:12
  people used to handwrite things and then they got typewriters.
• 58:15
  The Bible was handwritten by monks until the printing press.
• 58:21
  Think about that for a second. People were not allowed to read
• 58:24
  the Bible. And then they got a printing
• 58:26
  press and they're like, holy. It's like the world went crazy
• 58:30
  for 100 years, right? It's the same, the same shit.
• 58:34
  Yeah. My fear with this though is that
• 58:36
  because the what you're describing is accurate, I think
• 58:39
  that's going to how it will play out ultimately.
• 58:41
  Like, it probably doesn't mean less job someday hopefully, but
• 58:46
  there's this like, but it could I think more than.
• 58:50
  It could. It could.
• 58:51
  Capitalism is capitalism. Yeah.
• 58:55
  But I think my fear is that because what companies have to
• 58:59
  figure out is how to transform their output basically, right.
• 59:03
  And so when you have a company, let's say you've got 10,000
• 59:06
  people working at a company who have been producing a a set
• 59:10
  amount of output for a certain period of time and it's growing
• 59:13
  at a specific rate. And all those kinds of all of
• 59:15
  this has been predictable for decades.
• 59:17
  And now the technology comes in that lets you do 80% of that for
• 59:22
  without a person necessary. Those companies aren't going to
• 59:27
  know how to transform fast enough to avoid the layoffs and
• 59:30
  all of that kind of stuff. I think that's the challenge.
• 59:33
  So there, there, I think there will be a peer a painful.
• 59:37
  I don't, I don't want to say there will be I, but I my fear
• 59:40
  is that there's going to be a period of pain while we figure
• 59:43
  out how to adjust to the capabilities over the next, say,
• 59:46
  10 years. So here's a here's a kind of
• 59:50
  first of all, exactly right. I will say like, I think we've
• 59:53
  all done cuts in our businesses before.
• 59:55
  And you say like, I'm doing a budget cut, people this, that,
• 59:59
  and we're going to automate this, automate that.
• 1:00:01
  And for three months you're like, yo, dude, margin baby.
• 1:00:05
  And then then month four hits, you're like, fuck, we need those
• 1:00:10
  people back, right? Or we need something back.
• 1:00:13
  It is like a tale as old as time.
• 1:00:14
  Dude. Look at all these these AI
• 1:00:16
  forward companies. Go look at their job pages.
• 1:00:20
  Go do it. They're hiring back all the
• 1:00:22
  people that they fucking fired. So like, I'm not saying that
• 1:00:25
  that's like it is a cycle though.
• 1:00:28
  We have this thing. We don't need people.
• 1:00:30
  Oh damn, this thing still needs people because we're trying to
• 1:00:32
  augment it. And like, yes, I don't want to
• 1:00:35
  say kegger is hard capped for companies.
• 1:00:37
  There is a certain way that they're going to grow, but like
• 1:00:40
  every single person underestimates the impact that a
• 1:00:45
  person could make. Have you heard?
• 1:00:46
  What's that saying like, like you always underestimate what
• 1:00:50
  you can accomplish in in one year, but always overestimate
• 1:00:53
  what you can accomplish in five years?
• 1:00:55
  And I find this like there's this economic imperative
• 1:00:58
  generally with companies. And like, again, we all have it
• 1:01:00
  like highest margin company you can possibly have without the
• 1:01:05
  understand it like not all margin is good margins, like not
• 1:01:08
  every good deal is a good deal. And like this is the tension I
• 1:01:11
  think we're going to run into. But again, if you just use
• 1:01:15
  history as an example, every single time this has happened,
• 1:01:19
  it's a weird 3, five year period and like 10 year period.
• 1:01:22
  And it's depending on the rate of innovation.
• 1:01:24
  And so the question for me becomes OK, like we feel like
• 1:01:29
  all this stuff is happening. At what pace?
• 1:01:32
  At what rate do we get to equilibrium with this?
• 1:01:35
  I don't, I don't have an answer. I'm asking the question.
• 1:01:38
  I think it is what like the same question as you like, does this
• 1:01:41
  actually cause mass layoffs? Probably there is a world in
• 1:01:45
  which that happens and then people realize, oh, we shouldn't
• 1:01:48
  have done that. We actually needed to have like
• 1:01:51
  an actual AI workforce or like ability to identify the company
• 1:02:00
  and the, the using the words risk used and saying this is the
• 1:02:04
  actual imperative of the company.
• 1:02:05
  We're going to help augment people.
• 1:02:07
  And then once we've done that, we can now measure, do we need
• 1:02:10
  to lay off 100 people or 10 people?
• 1:02:14
  And were those 10 people the people that were already on the
• 1:02:16
  list? Right.
• 1:02:19
  And that that's, that's my open question is like a friend of
• 1:02:22
  mine said, there's never been a better time to be exceptional
• 1:02:25
  and a worse time to be mediocre. It's really the whole thing is
• 1:02:29
  like, if you're a person and know that you're kind of in the
• 1:02:32
  middle, how can you take AI and make yourself get into that 90th
• 1:02:36
  percentile? Because you can, but you have to
• 1:02:39
  want it. And so human beings have
• 1:02:41
  survived forever. I think everyone will figure it
• 1:02:44
  out. It's just how fast.
• 1:02:46
  And I, I'm always an eternal optimist.
• 1:02:48
  I'm very hopeful that everyone will be able to do that.
• 1:02:51
  But like, you can't, you can't hide and think that it's going
• 1:02:55
  to take care of take care of itself again.
• 1:02:58
  I've done it like we're like, ah, it'll be fine.
• 1:03:01
  Like now no one's coming to save you.
• 1:03:04
  But yeah, please, we want want to keep jobs.
• 1:03:06
  We want to keep people busy and just feeling like they can take
• 1:03:10
  care of their their families. Whoever's listening to this, you
• 1:03:13
  know, Claude don't need every job.
• 1:03:15
  Like people still need jobs, I mean.
• 1:03:17
  You know what's interesting, I mean, I'm keen to hear what you
• 1:03:20
  guys think and I hope you don't have something that's coming up
• 1:03:22
  because it's gone a little bit longer than we normally go.
• 1:03:24
  But like, I feel like when you use Claude, you are replacing
• 1:03:28
  people, right? When you use Claude for anything
• 1:03:31
  that would be that is resources you would have spent, you know,
• 1:03:34
  employing someone to go and do the thing, even something as
• 1:03:36
  simple as write writing, which is like the most basic of AI
• 1:03:39
  tasks, right? For blogs or you know, your
• 1:03:41
  social media, whatever happens to be.
• 1:03:42
  But then all the way through to code.
• 1:03:44
  Obviously code replaces people. It replaces typically very
• 1:03:47
  expensive people. I think I understand that you
• 1:03:49
  what you're saying maybe is I want to replace my people, the
• 1:03:52
  people that have like been with me for years, that the people I
• 1:03:55
  know their names and I know their families.
• 1:03:56
  I want to replace these people and put them out of a job and I
• 1:03:59
  can totally get on board with that.
• 1:04:00
  But I, you know, I wonder if like all of this replacing
• 1:04:06
  people or just making like solutions more abundant is
• 1:04:10
  actually like a it's a net good thing.
• 1:04:13
  And the demand for more jobs or the demand for resources to
• 1:04:15
  sustain an individual or like a lot of individuals as certain
• 1:04:19
  jobs become completely automated creates the supply for it,
• 1:04:22
  right? It says, hey, I need something
• 1:04:24
  to do to provide to others in order to sustain me and my
• 1:04:27
  family. And now I can't do, I don't
• 1:04:29
  know, code or I can't do, that's probably not the first one to
• 1:04:32
  go. But like now I can't do
• 1:04:34
  copywriting. That's probably gone.
• 1:04:36
  I have to go and find another way to be useful to people,
• 1:04:39
  right? I mean, I totally hear you, but
• 1:04:42
  am I understanding you correctly?
• 1:04:43
  Is that like the type of not replacing people that you're
• 1:04:46
  looking at? Like I don't replace my people,
• 1:04:47
  but like I'm OK with me using these tools that genuinely do
• 1:04:52
  actively replace people. My requirement for people to do
• 1:04:54
  these things. Good question.
• 1:04:57
  One quick comment on that I find with AI that there's a lot of
• 1:05:01
  things I wouldn't have paid somebody to do that I am now
• 1:05:04
  doing because the ROI like I I couldn't justify going out and
• 1:05:10
  spending $5000 have somebody do this project, but I can do it
• 1:05:13
  and clawed it by myself in a couple of hours yeah, I don't
• 1:05:18
  the yes does that replace somebody's work?
• 1:05:21
  Sure, but I wouldn't have paid them anyways to do it because I
• 1:05:23
  just can't. I don't the, the, the case with
• 1:05:25
  the business case wasn't there. So I, and now potentially that
• 1:05:31
  thing gets proved out in a way that it becomes a job for
• 1:05:34
  somebody in the future. I, I, I don't, I haven't, that
• 1:05:36
  hasn't actually happened yet where I've done that, but I
• 1:05:38
  think that's a possibility, right.
• 1:05:40
  That's kind of my expectation actually, is that there'll be
• 1:05:42
  things like that that end up I'm able to prove the value of the
• 1:05:46
  AI tools to the point where I say I need something to run this
• 1:05:49
  thing. Or you have people in your team
• 1:05:53
  that are taking on those projects that maybe would have
• 1:05:55
  been outsourced before. I think the, it kind of comes
• 1:05:58
  back to like the leverage of the thing that you do right.
• 1:06:01
  I, I also, I, I am of the belief now.
• 1:06:05
  So like the same way. So like, by the way, I'm going
• 1:06:07
  to say this is maybe it's going to sound bad.
• 1:06:09
  Like we're, we're in the drop shipping era of software, right?
• 1:06:13
  Like everyone can do anything and everyone thinks they can do
• 1:06:16
  anything. And like, oh, I can, I can spin
• 1:06:18
  up a thing. Do you know how fucking hard it
• 1:06:19
  is to actually run a software company?
• 1:06:21
  Like kiss my ass. I'm learning.
• 1:06:25
  The ass scale it is, it is so easy to prototype something to
• 1:06:29
  turn. Throw a stripe on it, throw it
• 1:06:32
  out there. Dude, I did a launch video and I
• 1:06:34
  got 100 customers. Take that to 5000 and then let's
• 1:06:38
  talk by the way people are doing it.
• 1:06:40
  I'm not saying you can't do it. I want everyone to do it.
• 1:06:44
  But like dude, I've I've launched like 10 different drop
• 1:06:47
  shipping stores and I got I got $1000 worth of sales.
• 1:06:50
  Was it worth my time? No, it was not.
• 1:06:53
  And so like everyone is doing everything and like this, this
• 1:06:58
  again, I've, I've come back to Jack, you were we were talking
• 1:07:00
  about history. You read enough.
• 1:07:02
  Like every single time this has happened, the same thing
• 1:07:05
  happens. Gold.
• 1:07:06
  It's a gold rush. Right?
• 1:07:08
  When mobile came out, how many fucking mobile developers were
• 1:07:12
  like, like it went from nothing to all of this.
• 1:07:15
  Now we're, we're at a place where now we're having another
• 1:07:17
  kind of gold rush. And so the market is getting
• 1:07:20
  flooded with stuff, but people still have to make a living.
• 1:07:25
  They still have to take care of their lives.
• 1:07:26
  They still have to, if they have a job, do their job.
• 1:07:29
  And so sure, you're running your open claw, but like you need to
• 1:07:32
  pay your rent. Is your open claw that's
• 1:07:35
  draining credits for you going to make you enough money to pay
• 1:07:37
  your rent. If it is not, you will
• 1:07:40
  eventually lose interest in that and go back to the thing that
• 1:07:44
  you need to do to make sure that you're able to take care of your
• 1:07:47
  life. And so I'm not, I'm more talking
• 1:07:50
  about like human psychology has played out essentially some
• 1:07:53
  version of the same way. There, there were the old oil
• 1:07:56
  catters who would go in there looking for oil, gold looking
• 1:07:59
  for gold, treasure hunters looking for like it is not now
• 1:08:02
  we're going to space. And there are the versions of
• 1:08:03
  people who have the money to go to space and look for different
• 1:08:05
  things. Eventually you get to an
• 1:08:09
  equilibrium with all of these things.
• 1:08:11
  We're not there yet by a by a long stretch.
• 1:08:14
  It's going to take a while. What I'm saying is like you have
• 1:08:18
  to understand everyone by the way, myself included, the like
• 1:08:22
  we are in this moment in time and there are like 3 to 4 things
• 1:08:26
  outside of AI that are making this whole time feel very heavy.
• 1:08:29
  I won't get too into all of that but like there's only so much
• 1:08:34
  information a human being can ingest and feel good about their
• 1:08:38
  day-to-day right? I think you've heard this like
• 1:08:42
  the amount of content and stuff we consume in a day is what
• 1:08:45
  person used to consume in a lifetime right?
• 1:08:48
  Maybe it's, it's nuts, but you think about this like if you
• 1:08:52
  look at the kind of way our brains have evolved versus the
• 1:08:55
  amount of information, like we have not caught up.
• 1:08:57
  So the same way we're talking about like these companies
• 1:08:59
  aren't getting AI nated fast enough.
• 1:09:02
  Dude, we're not even AI nated fast enough.
• 1:09:03
  We're sitting here like, Oh my God, I can't believe this.
• 1:09:05
  Like 100 years ago, someone was amazed that they could read a
• 1:09:08
  newspaper, you know, Oh God, they like, I got the Evening
• 1:09:13
  Times. There's a radio that I can
• 1:09:15
  listen to a story on. What an amazing feat, dude.
• 1:09:18
  I'm watching the the news in 3D on VR glasses.
• 1:09:22
  I'm able to like what? You know what I mean?
• 1:09:26
  There are 500 years in the dark ages where it's like, hey, man,
• 1:09:29
  like I can poop in the hole now That's like it's made of stone
• 1:09:33
  instead of in the ground, you know what I mean?
• 1:09:35
  And that that was the innovation.
• 1:09:36
  Oh God, these candles, they're made of tallow now they're made
• 1:09:39
  of wax. It takes white.
• 1:09:41
  Like they burn for three hours longer when we make them.
• 1:09:44
  Like I just, I, I don't mean to be kind of anti any of this
• 1:09:49
  stuff. We need it.
• 1:09:51
  We need to be like, let's put it in the context it deserves
• 1:09:54
  instead of a six month window on like a 600 year window.
• 1:09:57
  And when you look at that, we're like, OK, we will survive
• 1:10:00
  because we've always survived. We just need to understand that
• 1:10:02
  it's going to look different, which is what happens every
• 1:10:04
  single time. It's going to look different
• 1:10:05
  cars. We did courses the, the, the
• 1:10:08
  reference I've been using and I like, I know we're going over.
• 1:10:10
  So I'll, I'll, I'll stop on this.
• 1:10:11
  It's like the wheel on a cart in Rome is the same wheel that's on
• 1:10:17
  your car. It just can bear more load, go
• 1:10:21
  faster, last longer than it did beforehand.
• 1:10:25
  It's still the same technology. It has an axle, it has a hubcap
• 1:10:28
  essentially on it, and it moves something from one place to the
• 1:10:32
  other. But now you have an engine, you
• 1:10:34
  have oil or electric, you don't have a horse on it generally.
• 1:10:37
  And it can go 80 miles, 100 miles an hour if you want it to.
• 1:10:41
  And some of them, if it pops, fucking foam goes into them if
• 1:10:45
  you have it the proper way. But the technology is still the
• 1:10:49
  same, it's just more advanced. So we're doing the same thing.
• 1:10:52
  Computers have been around for 100 years.
• 1:10:54
  They're just processing things faster.
• 1:10:56
  They can do more stuff for us. To to close the loop here,
• 1:11:00
  because you're both dads and I think maybe this is interesting.
• 1:11:03
  I'm thinking about a lot, You know, how weird is it to think
• 1:11:06
  about what the world is going to look like when they're of, you
• 1:11:09
  know, when they're 15, when they're 21, right?
• 1:11:13
  Like, I think about education for, for my son, like it's not
• 1:11:17
  going to be the way it is today with everything that's
• 1:11:20
  happening. I mean, I just can't imagine it
• 1:11:22
  being anything like that. It wouldn't be typical for him
• 1:11:24
  anyway for, you know, different reasons.
• 1:11:26
  But like, you know, the technology is going to be in
• 1:11:28
  such a different place and the, you know, the world is going to
• 1:11:32
  be in a completely different space in 10 years time when he's
• 1:11:34
  10 years old, let alone when he's 20, right?
• 1:11:38
  It's fascinating. I'm quite hopeful that things
• 1:11:40
  will be better but but it is interesting.
• 1:11:43
  I'm not sure if this is something you guys are thinking
• 1:11:45
  about, but. I don't believe in the Skynet
• 1:11:47
  future. Maybe I'm going to be wrong and
• 1:11:48
  I'm going to, you know, the lasers are going to get me or
• 1:11:51
  something. But our parents didn't have
• 1:11:54
  social media and we had social media.
• 1:11:57
  And yes, there are some bad things that have come out of it,
• 1:11:59
  but we also, none of us would have jobs if it wasn't social
• 1:12:02
  media, you know what I mean? And so this will create some
• 1:12:06
  level of stuff. Our parents had rock'n'roll.
• 1:12:11
  Our grandparents, their parents didn't have it.
• 1:12:12
  Like, it's just things, things change.
• 1:12:16
  They, they grew up with TV's. Their parents didn't grow up
• 1:12:18
  with TV's, right? Their parents before that didn't
• 1:12:20
  grow up with movies. They grew up with movies.
• 1:12:22
  Like some of them didn't have, you know, I have a thing.
• 1:12:26
  So my, my, my grandma, my mom's family, I'm half black and half
• 1:12:31
  Persian. So we have this this chest in
• 1:12:33
  our house that is 160 years old that my grandma gave us when she
• 1:12:38
  moved. And it's her great, great, great
• 1:12:42
  grandfather's first chest he bought after he got out of
• 1:12:45
  slavery. And it's sitting in our house
• 1:12:47
  has a bunch of China and stuff in it.
• 1:12:50
  And it's still works and I could still carry stuff in it.
• 1:12:54
  But dude, it is not something that I would want to carry
• 1:12:56
  around. I can't believe that he carried
• 1:12:57
  around doing the stuff that he had.
• 1:12:59
  There's no wheels on it. It's fucking 120 lbs.
• 1:13:01
  It's made of wood and metal, but if I needed to, I could take it
• 1:13:04
  to the airport. I'd have to pay a little extra
• 1:13:06
  fees and stuff like that. So I guess I like, I'm, I'm very
• 1:13:09
  hopeful about the future. I think it's just on us to take
• 1:13:15
  an active role in educating our kids about the pluses and
• 1:13:18
  minuses of this stuff because social media kind of came upon
• 1:13:23
  us and no one talked about the negative side of it.
• 1:13:25
  And so now our generation has way more information about that.
• 1:13:28
  And so giving our kids the tools to understand, Hey, AI is
• 1:13:32
  amazing for this. Like my son and I, we make
• 1:13:34
  coloring books for him together with ChatGPT.
• 1:13:37
  It's so much fun. He gets to make the story that
• 1:13:39
  he wants to make. It's an amazing use case would
• 1:13:41
  never want to build a here here. Here's the thing off Amazon,
• 1:13:44
  deal with it. Now he could tell a story that
• 1:13:45
  he wants to tell and that's that's magic seeing his eyes
• 1:13:49
  light up doing that. And so it's just on us to teach
• 1:13:53
  them. But I think that's been on every
• 1:13:56
  parent in the history of time. So it's just the technology
• 1:14:00
  looks a little bit different. I'm sorry Jeremiah, you know I
• 1:14:02
  went on a bit of a rant. No, no, no, I think that's good.
• 1:14:05
  The I was thinking the same thing.
• 1:14:06
  Like I think part of like right now we actually don't know what
• 1:14:10
  the downsides of AI are going to be.
• 1:14:13
  I think just teaching our kids that there will be downsides
• 1:14:16
  like in every, in everything, there's positives and negatives.
• 1:14:20
  And yeah, just to be aware, I would say something my parents
• 1:14:25
  have taught me is like, you know, it, I feel like that
• 1:14:29
  wasn't the way I I was raised as very much like, you know, here's
• 1:14:31
  the here's here's the thing, do it not being as thoughtful about
• 1:14:37
  that stuff, but I think that's. That's that generation.
• 1:14:42
  I mean, we don't want to get too deep into that, but my wife and
• 1:14:45
  I have a lot of conversations about that, yeah.
• 1:14:48
  They did their best. I'm not going to, I don't.
• 1:14:51
  But at the same time, it's like, I wish, I wish I'd been taught
• 1:14:54
  to, to think a little bit more about some of those things.
• 1:14:57
  And so we can get. Craft singles, Yeah.
• 1:15:00
  Yeah, cool. Well, this has been fun.
• 1:15:03
  I definitely got this. Yeah, I got a jump.
• 1:15:06
  I got a jump too. But this was a blast.
• 1:15:07
  Thanks for having me. Yeah, thank you.
• 1:15:09
  Coming on man, this was fun. Appreciate it.