Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Graduate to Chartered Fellow, Emma Halls Financial Planning Journey

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Graduate to Chartered Fellow, Emma Halls Financial Planning Journey · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, and today I'm joined by Emma Hall from 75.3.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: She's a chartered financial planner, and today she shares her journey from starting out as a graduate all the way to becoming a chartered fellow in the profession.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Emma, thank you for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life Podcast.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Face to face.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, you're a local girl.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's good news.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: New thing for me, I want to start every episode with a gong.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: So every face-to-face episode, we're going to start with a happy with that?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we're inviting the calm into the room as we get to know you and your journey within the financial planning profession.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: So first off, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your journey.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Emma, so local to us here in Bristol.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about who you work for.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I work for a company called 75.3 Limited, who are an independent and chartered financial advisory firm.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: They're actually predominantly based up in the Northwest, but they have asked me to join the firm a few years back.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: They have lots of clients in the Southwest area.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I was asked to join their team, being a chartered and financial planner myself and also a fellow, fitted into the team very well.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of my colleagues and good friends of mine actually work there.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I've always had uh I've kept in touch with them over the years because I'm originally from North Wales, up that way.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: So joined them just under three years ago and have been sort of growing the business in the South West area since.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where you currently are at the moment.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um what I always love to do is start off an episode as well, talking about your journey really into the financial planning profession.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of people who listen to this podcast are thinking about becoming a financial advisor or at the beginning of their journey, and um they get a huge amount of satisfaction hearing about guests' journeys, and it tends to inspire them as to perhaps what path they're currently on to reflect, should they pivot, or what would be the quickest route to get to the level of where you are currently at the moment as a chartered fellow for a you know a financial planning firm.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: So let's start at the beginning then.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, first off, really, how did you hear about the financial planning profession?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: What was your route in?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um by accident, really.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I come from a working class background.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: My parents never had financial advisors, never even knew what one was.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um I went to university and I studied psychology and criminal justice, so it wasn't a financial background at all.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Partied hard, came out with a 2-2, so you know it wasn't great.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I was the first female in my family to go to university, so it was a start.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um felt like I'd left myself, let myself down a little bit, actually, in all honesty, because I felt like I probably could have done better.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I knew that I wanted to go into a line of work where I'm working with people, I'm a sociable person, I like talking to people, but I've also had a drive to earn money.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it was like a good combination.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And my partner at the time actually was quite interested in finance, so he sort of put the idea in my head a little bit or made me aware of it.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um then my mum happened to see an advert in the local newspaper back then, that's how long ago it was, um, advertising for a graduate scheme up in North Wales where I was living at the time for a company called Buckles.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I looked into what a financial advisor did, did a little bit of research, and I thought, yeah, this could actually suit me.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I was a little bit sceptical because I obviously had this tutu, it wasn't even in finance, but I went along to the interview anyway and thought, what have I got to lose?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, did the interview, uh, it was with the um managing director of the company who is quite a um quite an eye-opener for me, quite a fiery Irish man, fantastic at his job, really sort of pulled out what he wanted from you in the interview.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then that was it.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, actually got the job, got into a three-year graduate programme, which was it was a leading programme, actually.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: They won a lot of awards for it over the years, but it was a fantastic opportunity as well because they were bringing more and more graduates on at the time.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it was, I did my university bit, but then actually going into um this financial industry, which was brand new to me, but with a lot of people in the same uh sort of position.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: I've got lots and lots of friends actually still that I'm in touch with at the moment, where um we all trained together, we had some good times, but it was quite a structured programme.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: We had a year, so literally going from no experience whatsoever, partnered then with um a financial advisor, an experienced one, sort of mentoring you, and you were expected to do your exams and pass them one by one after a year.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's it, out on the road advising.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's quite a quick sort of turnaround.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: When I think back now, I think, gosh, you know, quite brave, just sort of going for it.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I think when you're in your early 20s and late 20s, you're quite a brave person anyway.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think you just sort of go for it.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so did that for a year, and then that was it, out on the road advising.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: And the way we got our clients back then was they would have books of clients that other advisors had sort of seen and didn't have really much money.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we were given like 30 clients in this book, and that was it.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's your book, go and phone your clients and get yourself some um appointments, and that was the way we started off.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, once you built up uh reputation in the company, you know, doing well, making sure that you were advising clients well, and that was it.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Then they would start to give you um clients that they've been buying out, client banks and things.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, start from scratch, but it gives you a good foundation.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think it gave me a good foundation, knowing that actually not everything's going to be given to you.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to really work hard.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, doing an appointment at eight o'clock at night, you know, three hours away is a bit ridiculous sometimes, but it just gives you that foundation that actually, yes, you if you work hard, put the work in, then you'll really start to see the rewards.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um let me stop you there.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's really interesting.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of things I picked up on there.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: One is you felt that you should have done better at university.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: But yet you're now a chartered fellow within financial planning.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: If you flip that back and you went back to you know back to your university days, why do you think you should have done so much better?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Would it have made a massive impact on your career journey to where you've got to now, which is you know a successful chartered financial planner?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a really good question.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think I had it easy at university because my dad paid for me for a lot of it.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I felt a responsibility.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because my my dad is um is quite old, he's in his 80s now, so back then he was still working to make sure he was very proud that his daughter had gone to university and he was working to make sure that my accommodation was paid for, for example.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I was quite privileged in university.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um to come out with a two-two after I'd partied too hard, you know, knew the the bars probably better than the work, to be honest.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I felt the responsibility then.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: They were very proud because I'd I'd got a degree, but actually, in my mind, I felt I'd let him down and myself down because I was capable of more.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thinking back, you know, if I'd come out with a first, would I have still been as driven?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not sure.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I am naturally like that.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: I like to do well.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, but maybe that gave me the kick-up the bum, the extra kick-up the bum I needed to really think, right.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've got to, you've you've got to show now that his money was well spent, I think.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: So sort of carrying perhaps just a piece, a small piece of guilt there around being the first in the family to go to university, feeling like maybe you partied hard and didn't get as much as you'd hoped from it, more around perhaps what they thought, where in fact, actually, the exam, you know, the qualification, the the degree that you've got has led you into a career of profession, you know, professional career of financial planning.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, that's a good thing, right?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: It is, that's it.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't have got that interview or gone to that interview for that graduate scheme without my 2-2, so it wasn't a complete loss.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and actually, you know, the type of person I am, I am very sociable, that's why I go out socialising a lot.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it's part of my personality, and maybe that's why I'm good at my job, because I can get on with lots of different people.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: I like I like to talk as you can tell.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well that's that's interesting.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that's a really interesting point, isn't it?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, there's a lot of questions going around like do you have to be a fully fledged, you know, both feet in academic to be a successful financial planner?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it more about personality?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is it more about how you are sociably, how you connect with people, the psychology of relationships and you know, um things like empathy, understanding, and building rapport with people.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if somebody's got a natural talent in that area, there isn't a need within the financial planning profession for anybody really.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Although you went down a graduate route, and that was a having that two or two qualification was a great aid to give you the stepping stone into a graduate position, and their sort of stance at that firm was we only take graduates by the sounds of it.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody without a degree can still get to the level that you can within financial planning.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: A degree isn't an indication of whether or not you're going to be a success as a financial planner.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want anybody who's listening to that pop this podcast, would you agree with that?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so funnily enough, um, the MD that I was talking about, you know, he he very much recognised that.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was more about the personality in the interview.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: He took the mick out of me for my result and things, which is fine, you know.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but he re I think that's what he was looking for was actually the personality.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: He said to me, or I remember in the interview, he said, I don't think you'll be able to cope with rejection.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, I'm really disappointed to hear you say that actually, because I think I will, and that was just the test.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Will she say something back?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think it's that it is the personality they did take on somebody that didn't have a degree um in that firm, and he's a successful financial planner now as well.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think um yeah, absolutely right.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: A degree is good, it shows that you can learn to a certain level because you do have to do an awful lot of exams to become a financial planner, rightly so, it's a regulated industry, but actually you need to be good with people, and I think um as long as you can show that you can learn to a certain level, like I, you know, like I did, um, I think the personality is probably more important actually.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: I yeah, I'm with you on that.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I run a recruitment company and we often advertise for graduates.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: So as soon as the grads leave Bristol, every recruitment agency is after a grad.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what you get from a grad is somebody who has to apply has to have applied themselves to a structure and to a process.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: And financial planning screams structure and process and organization, yeah, time management.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a degree gives a great indication of an individual's ability to apply themselves in that way.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's not to say that somebody without a degree um hasn't got that, but I think somebody without a degree has to evidence those skills in different ways.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: But if you combine that with the way that you articulate that message at interview, it reinforces the um ability to build good communication, you know, be good relationships as well.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, excellent.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right, so you were you were working there.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now this sounds like a bit of a baptism of fire.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it sounds very much like what I'm, you know, some of the firms I'm working with now under Financial Planner Life Academies, you know, it's about you know getting in there and fast tracking you through the qualifications, giving you some training, etc., and giving you a big kick up the bum and saying, get out there and write business, you know.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I think second careerists tend to be quite good at stepping across into a role of, say, a financial planner because they've got that experience, say, of building networks, perhaps they've got a network that they've built themselves to fall back on.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: But when you're a graduate, you don't, do you?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: All you've got really is you, your abilities, and a willingness to learn.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: And what you do need is that set structure and that set process to follow because you don't know it all.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: There needs to be a learning and development plan, doesn't there, that has to be put into place.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think that makes a big difference actually.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and the programme there was fantastic.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there was a man called Jan who trained us lots of um, you know, role plays, making sure we were up to scratch on our exams.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um we used to have to watch our role plays, which was really cringy, but actually that's the way you learn.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you see yourself, um, you pick up on your mistakes.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um the other thing they're very good at there was I'd been there a week and they did these um thirdly days where every sort of I think it was every third month of the year on a Thursday, we'd go out to um a hotel, they would put on lots of business development managers to come in and tell us all about um, you know, products, and then they would do something like they would pick a name out of it in and say, Right, it's you, stand up for three minutes and talk about lawn mowers, for example.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: So just getting the confidence up.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um after I'd been there a week, we were put into groups and um I had to talk, I had to present about inheritance tax.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: The group did the question and put the answers together, but myself and a really good friend of mine, we had to go up and present it.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: I had no I knew nothing about inheritance tax at that point, but just getting your confidence up, getting you up there, you know, making you feel that you can do it and having the support of all of the other team members there, not laughing at you, actually encouraging you, you can do it, you know, real, just the effort of getting up there.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: They were really good at that, and I think that that was a big plus for me because I'm not a shy person, but uh I do need a bit of encouragement, or I did then to get up there and talk.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that makes a big difference.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: So being in an environment where they do bring you out of your comfort zone, and often when you're in an environment and you're all in it together, such as a training uh process scheme or graduate scheme or cohort of new entrants, you're all in together, aren't you?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you kind of all motivate each other to step outside your comfort zone and put yourself out there.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's really, really good.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, how long ago was that?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: That was in 2006.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: 2006.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: They've been in a profession for quite some time.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of change lots has changed since then, and and now what you're seeing as entry-level opportunities for graduates doesn't tend to be stepping straight into a financial advisor role.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: What you're seeing is like the profession is not quite there you know up against accountancy and legal yet, in respect of a clearly defined route into becoming a financial planner, but it's being built.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: And one of those is like administration, you know, to power planning to financial advisor.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: So when you went in, what was the route?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: What did it look like?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Was it you know the equivalent of the admin power planner advisor, or was it straight into financial advice bypassing any of the back office type functions?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: So um, as I said, I was paired with an experienced advisor, and I sat opposite him on the desk.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: So he would give me um, I suppose, power planning jobs, so maybe research.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we sat with other trainees who'd already been on the course a bit longer, phoning up to do valuations um back then, you know, they weren't automated a lot of the time.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: So learning every little step, um, you would sit with an administrator for a while, get to know what their job was, and then you would go out with um on meetings with the advisors, and I think that's really important because when you do become a you know a fully fledged advisor, you need to know all of the aspects of the business because you know you need to know what the administrator does.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Without an administrator, you've had it, you know, they're worth their weight in gold.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Same with a power planner, you're all an important part of a team.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um I've seen advisors over the years where they don't really value some of the other members, um, administrators being looked down on because they're the advisor.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: And but actually, as I say, you know, without any part of that, that that team, you've had it, you know, your business isn't getting sent off and it's not being chased and put into place.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're not going to be able to go out and see a client if you haven't had the research done.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's that was great how I was taught.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: We did every little bit, every step of the way.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: And once they, our manager thought we were competent, then we'd be given more responsibility.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but as I say, once once a year had gone by, you were still paired up, but that was it.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: You were out seeing clients.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: I still remember my first ever meeting to this day, knocking on the door with my heart racing, thinking, oh my gosh, I don't know anything.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, and they were lovely actually, it was really good.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you've just got to be brave and believe in yourself.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the key.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: You've just got to go for it.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And if you make a mistake, you make a mistake.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's plenty of you know, making mistakes and getting knockbacks is all part of the process of learning, isn't it?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're not gonna, you don't just step step into an environment and become an expert at your chosen field, you know, becoming an expert comes from knockbacks and learning.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, every knockback, you know, every no gets you closer to a yes.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I love the uh uh the visual I just had then of you, you know, in your new suit or whatever.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was knocking on the door, like, you know, I could just funny like when I was about 17 I did door knocking as a job.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and it was like I didn't go to university, I I fell out of college, you know, I wasn't in college or anything like that.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't somebody who was naturally an academic individual.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I had confidence and I had this drive and ambition that I knew I could be success, you know, and I was what the bloody hell am I gonna do?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: My dad was like, you don't come home unless you've got a job.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh god.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up getting on a bus from Western Super Mayor to Bristol to work on this door-knocking company.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was the guy knocking on the door trying to get you to change your gas over or something like that.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, what I learned from that, and interestingly, you remember Minoj?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: He did exactly the same.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where I remember him from.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a chap that we both know called James Stammers.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now, James Stammers runs his own gym.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's a couple of other people that I know within that job that all ended up running their own businesses.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that door knocking, that early adoption in whatever capacity or role it is, of stepping outside your comfort zone and welcoming no's, welcoming rejection is the thing that creates those neurological, you know, those neurotransmitters that allow you to be a success and and put fear to one side.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was lovely to picture that.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, brilliant.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: That was where you were, and that's what you're doing.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to ask this question.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Those so many years ago, I mean there's a distinct lack of females in the profession as it stands at the moment.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Did you experience anything during that process that made you feel like you weren't considered as good as a man when it came to becoming a financial planner, or that the company sort of moved on and the profession moved on at that point, or you know, what was your early sort of idea around being a female and being a financial planner?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so funnily enough, I asked in my first interview how many women they employed at the company, and I remember it it caught the person interviewing me off guard a little bit because he he didn't know, and I remember he looked, he was looking for a list of them because that was quite important to me.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um my mum had warned me actually going into the industry um don't just be careful, Emma.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're a woman going into a male-dominated industry, don't be manipulated by any men wanting you to go up the ladder by doing certain things, which was quite an eye-opener for me.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: I thought flipping it didn't even like cross my mind, but that's the way my mum viewed that industry.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've been very lucky over the years, actually.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think the fact that I was on a graduate scheme with a lot of young women and men, they were very good, they recruited based on who they thought was best at the time for the job, so that's great.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: And as I say, a lot of my female friends are financial advisors and we train together.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a lot of male friends as well who would do the in uh are in the industry.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of the things I noticed back then because I was so young, 2006.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I went out in 2007 advising.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: That was a baptism of fire because obviously 2007 and eight, we had a huge crash, and I'd never lived through it before, so that was quite an eye-opener.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: But turning up at um a, you know, a man's door who's in his 50s, 60s, and seeing somebody young, 20-something-year-old woman, um, you really had to show you knew your stuff.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: But after a couple of minutes of talking, you know, they were fine, absolutely fine.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think again it's a confidence thing.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to get in there and just prove that you know your stuff, and once um people can see that, then you know they will trust you.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I get it, I you know, it might be the same if it was a young guy, I don't know, but yeah, I think just seeing a young girl at the door, it probably was took them by shock a little bit.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think when you speak to people on the phone, they assume you're older because of the industry you're in.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, not really.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: I've been I've been very lucky.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've had one bad incident where I won an award a few years ago, and um somebody quite high up in a company asked me, oh, fantastic, you know, why do you think you won the award?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And another person who was quite high up in the company came and looked me up and down and said, Well, look at her, why do you think she won?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Which I was really angry about, obviously.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: But the reaction of the man who asked me the question was fantastic.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: He absolutely blanked it as if he'd never heard it and just waited for me to answer, and that gave me so much like oh, I've I felt so happy that he'd done that.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so much respect given.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and funnily enough, that that man's wife is very high up in her career, very successful lady.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: But that was the only experience really I've had that was negative.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the majority of the people I've worked with over the years have been brilliant, all the men treated me the same, uh, have a good laugh with them all.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's so important.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for sharing that and and sharing it so honestly, because in this day and age of social media, it can be very easy to jump on the you know the man bashing wagon.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's very easy, isn't it, to get behind this message that oh, women don't have it as as easy as men do, or you know, um men will always put us down and there's more in the profession.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: And they'd be very, very careful about that within within financial services because yes, there are more men with within the profession, um, but that doesn't mean.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: That the men within the profession don't want women to come into the profession, or that won't support women within the profession, because lots and lots and lots of men that I speak to do.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Lots and lots of women that I speak to haven't had any issues or any problems at all.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: So getting that sort of being aware and and aware that as a female you may come up against challenge certain challenges.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: One being, you know, predominantly talking to men, for example, who who run the household, right?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's a traditional thing perhaps in older men.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: But it certainly isn't over the next few years, is it?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: No, gosh, no.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's gonna be more female millionaires than there are men.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Women are more responsible for running the household income than men.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's so many opportunities, divorces, etc., you know, there's so many opportunities for women to like not have to even think about that and just accept that the world is moving in a way.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter if you're male or female, right?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I'd like to think is going to happen.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is starting now.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a daughter, you know, and I would like to think that she would go into a job and the gender thing wouldn't even cross her mind.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is happening.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: As I say, the majority of my experiences have been really positive, and I've not really had any issues with being a woman in a male-dominated industry.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's treated me with respect other than that one little thing.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: But over 16 years, that's pretty good going.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um there is a change in dynamic.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: There is, you can feel it, you know, a lot of men in these industries now have daughters themselves.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I think they're, you know, everybody's realizing that actually it should be about your talent and who you are, and not whether you're a man or a woman.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: And some of the things that I've started seeing as well over the years is that there's more women that are willing to go onto social media and be more open about what they do as a career, and their approach on social media tends to be more empathetic and open and honest.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think men struggle more on social media than women do, and I'm a firm believer, look, you know, women within the profession, within any profession that has a distinct more, you know, more men in it, get it out, get out there, talk about what you're doing within your career.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because the more young girls see women talking about a profession that they've been tainted to thinking is predominantly male and not for them, right?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna see women talking about it and think, well, what doesn't even come into play?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds really, really interesting.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's some great girls and uh women out there that are that are promoting the the profession in a fantastic way.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um I do think the profession as a whole can do better to bring more women onto board-level positions, um, positions of influence and decision making.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um again, those individuals I think have a duty in the care to raise their profiles again, to say, here I am, and this is what we're doing, and it's only going to have a positive effect on individual companies hiring strategies.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm gonna say this, I was predominantly 90% men within my business, it's now like 70% women, and like it's brilliant, it's buzzing, and it's going it's growing great guns.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's really sad actually, because my wife's 41, right?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Tell you that, gonna get shot now.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: But she's 41 years old, she lost a job, okay?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: And she was working for butlers in the buff.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know that?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I do.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a lot handies.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, her job sounds like the perfect job for women, is basically objectifying men on a daily basis on video.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Get your kit off, let's have a look at what you look like.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: And her job is to recruit butlers in and put them out.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, unfortunately, the company's gone into administration, so she's lost her job.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: But from her experience of working in recruitment, she worked for me for a bit in recruitment and a marketing perspective, she wants to go out and work in recruitment.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: That recruitment profession, the profession of recruitment, is is kind of like mainly sort of marketed towards younger people, and also again, quite male, quite, quite male-dominated, more women are coming into it.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: But a question was asked at interview, and I was utterly shocked was how are you going to do a recruitment job and be a mother at the same time?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a question that came up from two women.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: Gosh.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I now I find that I find that an improper question, inappropriate.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because would someone ask me that question?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's the issue, isn't it?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's whether if that if your wife had been a man, whether the you know he would have been asked the question.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's I get where they're coming from from a certain exp perspective.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: If they're mothers, they probably know how hard it is to juggle things, but you would like to think that actually there are a lot of men out there as well.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now dads who are in the same position.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's not all about them the mums taking care of the children anymore.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've got a lot of friends in this career who are all mums.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: My best friend has three children, eight and below, and she's the same, she's doing the same thing as me.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, you know, her husband works long hours as well, and they have to do a joint job of managing everything.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Same with myself.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um you I think a lot of women would be happier with that, like say if it was asked to both men and women, but the reality is it's not.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um and actually, you know, we're all capable of managing as long as as long as we keep organized and things, but it is frustrating to hear questions like that, definitely.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um it puts it puts women off, I think, either having children, yeah, right, returning back to work.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um it also puts women off, I think, perhaps changing career from one to the other, if they're planning on having families.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, should they be having this conversation at an interview stage if they're planning on having a family?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: It just brings something into the mix that doesn't need to be there because it's a normal part of life.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: And we're a country and a world now, or most of the world, where we have double incomes, you know, and like quite our economy's based upon it.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: We can't get a mortgage about a double income.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Before it would have been all on one person's salary.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the way it is.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Let's move on and get over it.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when it comes to the interview questions being asked, it's just be think about, you know, I was quite shocked by it.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: I just like think about it.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Have you yourself then, because you were a mother, right?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: You you know, if you've progressed within your career as a mother as well, did you experience anything from where you decided to have a child to then looking after your child to then returning back to work?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: What was your experience of that?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Was it a positive one?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Was it a a worrying one?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about that journey.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, going back to even before thinking about having children, um, you know, being a sort of a high flyer, career-oriented, working long hours, and I was happy to do that.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew in my mind that having a child is going to probably obliterate it quite a bit for a while.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: So hence why I had um Hallie a bit later on.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, um, it took me a while to find the right partner anyway, but um yeah, it did worry me.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you come become accustomed to a certain lifestyle, the nice holidays, you know, earning a certain amount of money.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the worry then is okay, you you want children, but am I gonna be able to go back and earn that sort of money, do the job as well?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: These are the sort of things that are going through my head, but then you get the guilt thinking, oh, if I go back full-time, you know, Hallie's gonna have to go to nursery.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is that the right thing to do?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it was all that going around.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: I decided to take the year off.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in all honesty, after six months, I was probably I probably could have gone back to work.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: I took I I think it's quite a big change to go from full-paced working, lots of hours, to then having a baby, and then the routine is quite similar every day, especially at baby stage when you're not really getting much back and you're in the house a lot.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: I tried to get out as much as I could, but I wanted to take the year because I thought I'll if I don't have any more, I'll never get this again and just enjoy it, and that's what I did.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: I decided to go back four days a week, and I think that's a fantastic thing about financial services, is that it's very flexible as long as you've got the right employer.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and my employee's fantastic.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: I can pretty much do what I please as long as I'm doing what I should be doing.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: He's very happy.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's brilliant.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: So Hallie goes to the nursery three days a week, she's with a granny one day a week, and then I have a Friday off.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the struggle, I think, is realising that you're supposed to be doing four days a week when you're very, very driven and you want to, you know, do a good job.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so it takes a bit of adjustment, or it did for me to realise that actually I shouldn't be working on that Friday.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because I found it very easy if Ali was taking a nap to do a few hours' work.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: You've you've just got to take a step back and think, right, get your balance because otherwise you're just trying to manage too much, but it can be done.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: It absolutely can be done.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: And as I say, I think this industry is a really a good industry to be in for anybody that's going to be parenting and you know working at the same time.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Very good point there.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: I have brought in flexible working, okay, and I think when you have an expectation to be working a number of days, then you are kind of going against perhaps your style and approach to how you like to work.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think with flexible working, it's about getting the job done in the way that you want to get the job done.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: So if someone turns around and says, Okay, great, we'll give you four days, that's fat, you know, and that's for thinking, right?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Four-thinking stroke expected.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but if someone then says, Well, it's okay if you want to work on that Friday because your child's down for a couple of hours or your child's at a nursery or whatever, and you want to get your head down and do some work, my view is that's okay.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: My view is you work the way that you want to work that's going to get you the results.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can manage your your life around it.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to fit in physical fitness and health, you know, if you want to work on your mental fitness, if you want to put your kids up from school, if whatever it is.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think when you allow that flexibility and freedom to the employee to work the way they want to work, especially if they're organized, and especially if they're driven, they're not gonna not, they're gonna they're gonna value that freedom more than this restriction.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Why restrict somebody who's good at their job?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely, completely agree.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you've you've hit the nail on the head.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think if a person is driven and committed to that job, you don't need to tell them when they need to be working.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: They will do the hours when it's best for them, as long as it's within company guidelines, and they'll get the job done, and they'll probably get it done better because, like you say, they've had the time to go to the gym, they've had the time to spend with, you know, going to see their child at sports day, you know, little things like that.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: You become more loyal, I think, as an employee because your employer's giving you respect to do your thing, um, and then you will want to work harder and and the respect is two ways then.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um I get there are some industries out there that it's a bit more difficult.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, my other half works in construction, much more rigid, expected to be on site by seven in the morning, you know.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we have these conversations quite regularly with him because mine's more flexible, but in an industry where you can have flexibility, it definitely makes a difference.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you'll grow the employees, they will grow, it will be such a strong team because everybody's fresh, everybody's happy, everybody feels like they they're giving they're being autonomous in that workplace.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I can I I get it must be quite a shock for some employers who have never had to do that before, and actually letting the leash out a little bit, that's why I see it in my head, you know, giving people that freedom, it must be quite scary.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because it's a business at the end of the day and it needs to make money.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I I think the pandemic has has helped with that a little bit, you know.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: There will always be people who are going to sit on the BEMs all day and do nothing if that's the way they are.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, if you pick the right people, which I know is difficult in itself, yeah, I think they will get on with it because they want to.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think it's about absolutely A, you're picking the right people, but you don't give somebody a hundred percent flexibility in the beginning if they don't have the experience or the evidence to suggest that they can be trusted.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's okay to say I don't trust somebody straight away, especially if you're putting some money into their bank account every month to do a job for you.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: And as a business owner, I know that.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I do in I with our business personal development plan is that we outline exactly our expectations of what someone should be doing, and when they hit that point, then they get more, you know, even to the point where flexible working, unlimited holidays.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: So for us, it's about empowering somebody on a journey to work the way that they want to work, but get rid of this entitlement that you should have from day one.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you earn it, you know.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um financial planning as a profession, the employed options that are out there need to adopt that.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: That will attract so many new advisors to the profession, but it will also attract new uh existing advisors to the firms that have got aspirations to grow.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because there is still this lack of trust, and especially around the administrators and power planners, where there seem to be almost second to the advisors, you know, the Warm-Up Act or whatever, or you're here because of us.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so many frustrated administrators, so many frustrated power planners I speak to, they're like, why can't I just work from home?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: And they're asking for that flexibility from us.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Can you find me the employers who give us that flexibility?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now, in a profession where we know it's rare as hens teeth to find a power planner, that's the way the firms within the profession can alter and change.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: And also it develops that again, trust, because god damn it, if someone's gonna feel so good if their employer is trusting them.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna work harder.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: You give them unlimited holiday, the likelihood is they'll work harder.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just the way it is, it's how we work as humans, you know.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's just we want to impress and improve, and all flexibility allows us to do is to construct the way that we want to do it in a way that works for us.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I like that.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I want to sort of get across with you, really, is that flexibility, and you're gaining an experience in that flexibility.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: And anybody's listening who's a female, male even, who wants to spend time with a children, etc.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: of the profession, does and and will adopt to that in in the right way.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Or you go down the self-employed route and you you know you manage your own um financial planning role in the way that you want to do it, but with that comes risks, doesn't it?
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: You chose employed.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: How come you chose employed over self-employed?
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you do that?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Good question.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my dad's been self-employed most of his life, and I've been quite aware of that over the years, especially when I was younger, being in work for a few months and out of work for a few months and in and out.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I remember going down to the job centre with him when he was out of work to try and find the next job.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um the benefit for me being employed is it is security, but actually, I get the best of both worlds.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: I get the pension, I get the private medical insurance, I get everything else, um, I get my salary, but also, you know, I'm bonused, so it's unlimited how much I can top it up by based on what business I'm writing.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I've thought about going self-employed.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I like the idea of being my own boss saying that I've worked with an awful lot of business owners over the years in my end in my job.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they never tend to put the phone down a lot of the time, they're always busy.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, the owner of the last business I I worked at, bless him, works his backside off.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: I remember him emailing me when he was away skiing, you know, and that's something that always plays on my mind a little bit.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you become your own boss, um you are on the job an awful lot more, I think maybe.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's something I think that maybe I'll do a little bit later down the line, but right now I feel like I've got the best of both worlds, um, and I've got the flexibility from my boss as well, so I don't necessarily feel like I'm restricted in what I'm doing.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um you've got the self-employed mentality on an in an employed role, which is again the way the profession really needs to go if it wants to grow, I think, is to give that flex, it's getting back to flexible flexibility and trust.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um you're right there.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like I run a business and um, you know, throughout the years it's it's sent me to the bloody funny farm, you know, and um it is stressful, you don't switch off, you're always thinking about it.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an entrepreneur through and through and through and through, and I'm realising that more and more.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think business owners ha who have that streak within them struggle with an employee position.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's I would struggle with employees because I'm a big thinker, yeah, and you know, I even probably do my business partner's head in because I've got so many ideas where he's more like rigid and let's just put things into place.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, I'm building, you know, I'm always thinking ahead.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, and you do open your eyes in the morning and uh think about it.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: So being employed doesn't do that you know as much.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it does, obviously, because if you're not hitting your goals and your targets and all of that type of stuff.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about targets, bonuses and goals and you know, um expectations upon you, you know.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: How do you feel about that?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Do you um do you feel under pressure as a financial planner to deliver against targets?
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because um the profession is moving away from bonus, it's moving away from incentives, it's moving away from that because it doesn't want to muddy the uh the waters or you know of of what an advisor should and shouldn't do.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want them pushing them down to miss selling, etc.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: So your experience around that, do you feel under pressure?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever been under pressure?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: Has there been times when you said, look, this isn't working because you're putting me under too much pressure to do the job properly?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um I personally have had the odd time where I've felt under pressure, but that actually isn't to do with hitting targets.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: I've touched wood, I've never had an issue with hitting targets.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's more the pressure I feel is actually doing a good job for the clients.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I feel the pressure.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: If something's not going right along the line, that stresses me out.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: That would be the thing that stresses me out.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um targets and bonuses.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've I've I mean, where I am at the moment, it's almost like a soft target.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't get asked what business I'm writing.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: I just, my boss believes that if I do the right job, the referrals will come and the business will get written, and that's the way it works.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Previously, I've I've been under more of a sales manager type arrangement, which I think is quite common in a lot of financial industry firms, um, which again, it's never stressed me out.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's a business, it has to make money, so I get it.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, the business owners need to know a rough idea of what's coming in.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the thing I think would be more helpful probably in those scenarios is actually having more of a mentor rather than a sales manager.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: So going into a meeting where yes, you're going to talk about figures, it's a business, but actually more focusing on how you're doing, how we can help you improve.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think then naturally the business is going to come, it's going to go up anyway.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there needs to be more focus on mentors.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've I've thought over the years that who inspired me?
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: And my dad always used to say to me as a young girl, don't worry about getting married, don't worry about having children, like get out there, get a good job, be independent, don't have to rely on anyone.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that was always drilled into my mind.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: Mum's very like homebird or fantastic.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: I talked to her about anything.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a very good combination of parents when I was growing up.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, I have I've seen it stress out people that I've worked with very getting very, very stressed out where they've left the job eventually.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because for some people it is too much to be asked, where's the business coming from?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: What you know, what business are you writing?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think you've just got to take a step back and just believe that if you do the right job, you give the right advice, the referrals will come and the business will go.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it that's what's always happened over the years.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I don't like the approach of having always asking about business.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that is not good for a heavily regulated industry where we're supposed to be financial planners, not salespeople.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you even now you will go and see clients who have had financial advisors in the past, and they'll always make a joke, Oh, we're here to sell me something.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like that anymore.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we've done so many exams, um, it is regulated.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that it is changing, you can see it, but there is still, I think, probably areas where you know it's it's about the the targets.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: Let's help out some of the listeners.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: You've obviously been in the profession for some time and you've probably sat down in front of um different companies for interview stages.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think are the red flags, the the warning signs at interview stage that someone might want to look out for where they could be stepping into a company that might not have their best interest at heart and are more geared towards business, business, business.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what'll come up in the in the interview.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how much business have you been writing?
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: What sort of business do you think you're going to write?
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: What what sort of clients have you been working with?
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: They'll probably just talk more about the the business end rather than um, you know, what are your drivers, what do you what about you, finding out more about you, I think, rather than um that would be the better side of it.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think if they're just focused on what business you've been writing, what the biggest case you've ever written, sometimes that can be a red flag if if that's the main focus in that interview, and then not finding out more about your passions, where you want to be, you know, how how you think you can benefit that company in other areas as well.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree, absolutely agree.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: When we sit down with people here and from others to come and work for us, I'm really driven to find out what people's drivers are in life.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: What's their purpose?
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: What they're passionate about, what they care about.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: I always like to understand how they've overcome difficulties, because we all have difficulties in life.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I always when I ask that question, sometimes it'll be somebody talking about mental health, somebody would talk about I don't know, studying or something like that.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I love the ability for somebody to reflect on a point in time where they've overcome adversity and able to articulate how they did it.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: I always say to people like before you go into an interview, if all that if all someone's doing is interested in how much money you can bring to the table, they don't care about you, they're not really interested, and therefore they're not looking for opportunities of how they can help you and improve your career.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: And um, whenever you talk about somebody else, when I ask you questions and you talk to me, you feel good.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: That oxytocin's released, right?
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm listening to you, yeah, I feel good as well.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm always thinking when I'm at that interview point, I'm always thinking, well, how can I help this person?
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: How can I enhance this person?
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because A, I'll I've I've noticed somebody I really want to come and work for me, they've got the abilities, they've got the skills, etc.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: But what don't they know about themselves?
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: Where are they lacking confidence?
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when you go into that interview stage, it's like be prepared to be asked about how you're going to write business, that's how you do the job, but also be prepared with some answers, such as what drives you, what are your purposes, you know, overcoming adversity, etc.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're the conversations that generate emotion, yeah, and they're the things that then create this connection between the interviewer and the interviewee.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: If you were to ask, what would be your so if someone's like going to an interview stage right now, right?
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: And they're thinking, do you know what questions should I ask?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're always told, we're always told, aren't we, prepare with some questions to ask at the end when they say, Have you got a question for me?
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, uh, how much I get paid.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say would be a great question to ask somebody who's going into say their very first financial planner interview?
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a good one.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be inclined to ask about, you know, the person that's interviewing you, ask them maybe about their journey, you know, how did you start off?
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is this the way that you run things in this company?
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is that how I can develop in this company?
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'd probably ask, I have asked in fact, you know, how did you think I did in the interview?
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, any feedback?
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: I always ask that.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um just a little bit more about where they see the company going, you know, how I might fit in there.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um that sort of thing, really.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think you you need to show an interest, I think, in in that company.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, I I would assume you've read up about that company and a bit beforehand, but more about I think um how they see you fitting in potentially, or you know, what interest did you them in you being there?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's the sort of thing I would always always ask.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: I like it.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: Cool, good advice.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about qualifications.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: Qualifications are a big part of becoming a financial planner.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: You can't be a financial advisor and sit down with clients and give advice unless you're level four qualified.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: You yourself, though, have chosen to go up to chartered, then to fellow.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us a little bit about that journey.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you decide to go above and beyond level four?
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: And has it had a positive impact on you, your learning, and perhaps your your career development?
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yes, so very important to me.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the reason I decided to go for the qualifications was because um, one, as I said before, it's a it's a heavily regulated industry and you've got to know an awful lot about an awful lot.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think doing the exams, you're just going to increase your knowledge.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now I know you can't know everything, but I think it's really, really helpful to know about things so that if you're in um a meeting with a client and something crops up, you're aware of it.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think you're you're not going to be disadvantaged by doing exams, it's just increasing your knowledge.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think why stop if there's another level you can go to?
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: If it's just going to increase your knowledge, then then go for it.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think the other thing as well is credibility, particularly with the financial advisory industry, because of the bad press we've had years ago when it was all sell, sell, sell, big commissions.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you can walk in your chartered, you know, um a client maybe would associate that with a chartered accountant or a chartered something else, you know.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: It shows credibility, it shows that you know what you're talking about.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: Being part of a chartered firm again tops that up.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: Being fellow, I don't think a lot of people would know that you could get a fellowship actually, but it's just the next step again, it's another exam on top.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it just shows you at the top of where you can be in your industry.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you've put the time and effort in.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think it shows the clients that you're you know you're you're clever to a certain level because you can pass these exams, um, but it's more about knowledge, I think.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: Really being able to give the clients the best advice.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: As I said, you're not going to remember it all, but you're going to be aware of things.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're seeing high net worth clients, things can get quite complex because you need to know tax, you need to know a bit of you know the legal side.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to know a bit of everything, being a financial advisor.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you're going out there wanting to do the best job for the client, and I think as much knowledge as you can get will help with that.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: I like the fact that you picked up on the fact that it can be a differentiator in the marketplace as well.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: You've worked with private clients and you've worked on the corporate side as well.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: And is that predominantly what you're doing at the moment, sort of going into more corporate area or are you more private clients?
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I work with um, you know, everyday clients, um, Mr.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: and Mrs.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: McGinnes, you know, um, who are retired, and then I can work with companies as well.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, with lots of employees and high turnovers.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that is a good thing about the job, I think.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's very varied.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I absolutely love the fact that you could be seeing people from very different walks of lives from one day to the other.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: I love that part of the job.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hearing people's stories, how they you know started, people that are sort of running multi-million pound businesses now started from the very bottom.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a brilliant, brilliant part of the job.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm lucky in that I get to work with both.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as I said, I get you know, and then actually you start to get to know the generations of families, people who are starting off with an ISIL, for example, um, and then the the grandpa and grandma who have um got this family business.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a fantastic part of the job, I think, that you can do both, you can do the the retail and you can do the corporate side um on top.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: So some some people I know will work predominantly on the corporate side, that's their thing.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: They might specialise in an area there.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: Some people prefer to work with they're more sort of retail clients.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so lots of opportunities.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: Can I ask you a question?
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like when when you become a financial planner and you're expected to um work with your existing clients, give them financial advice, keep in contact with them.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: So there's the relationship side, but there is also this new business side as well, where you're always kind of looking for new opportunities to write more business.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: So part of that would be writing business with existing clients, their families, transitional wealth, a big opportunity there, obviously.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: But what about the other area of like, well, I need to generate some more introducer relationships?
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: Being chartered, being fellow that helps you, I guess, by being able to sell your services and market yourself to things like accountants, solicitors that understand what Chartered and Fellow and the hard work that goes towards doing that actually does.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: Have you got any kind of do you do you does it come naturally for you to work with introducers?
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: Has it taken some time to develop a skill set around that?
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: And is there any advice around anybody who might well be struggling with building those introducer relationships, maybe in the early stage of their career or even their later stage?
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um when it comes to networking, the traditional how you'd imagine it, you know, you go to a breakfast meeting.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's not my favourite thing to do, to be honest.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, especially when I was younger, you walk in, and again, predominantly guys and suits, and I'd walk in with my little bright dress on and think, oh god, I don't know if I fit here.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you'll find, you know, a lot of advisors that I know that are friends of mine, they feel the same.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: Very easy, they find it very easy to talk to people one-on-one, but actually going into a room full of people that they don't know is a little bit more challenging.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people would probably relate to that.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: The way I've got around that is um being a woman.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: I find that going to a woman event, women events, you know, that's quite fun because as you said, you know, women, we like to have a chat.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that feels a little bit pressure off.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you can actually just get to know people, professionals, solicitors, accountants, that sort of thing.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: I find it a lot easier if if we're going to somewhere where we're doing um an activity.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, clay pigeon shooting or wine tasting, or a lot of the um providers out there will will set these up because they really want to introduce and get more business coming in.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really good because you have a good time and you're naturally relaxed then and just sort of chatting to people as you're doing it.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing, um particularly if you're working with corporate clients, they'll always have an accountant.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: So encouraging them, um, if you'd like the accountant to come along to our next meeting, invite them in, and that way they're going to sit in and you'll be introduced then.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good way of doing it.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and a lot of the accountants might set, you know, set up joint ventures with them, um, where they'll then start to introduce you because you're independent, they have to do it.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: Solicitors again, um, if you've got clients where maybe they um they're going to rewrite their will, you could always say, Well, if the the solicitor wants to speak to me um about your financial assets, here's my number, or give me their number and I'll speak to them to make sure we're on the same page with their will planning.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's a really good one.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever worked with any kind of digital lead generators?
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like people that say, I'll get you client leads booked into your diary.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, have you had any experience of that, good or bad, or heard from anybody else who's had good or bad experience?
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: I've been approached, we get a lot of emails to say we'll generate clients for you.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've been very lucky in that I've never needed them.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've always been at a firm where either they're buying client banks, so we'll be provided with that, and then you start to get the referrals or creating um networks of like solicitors, accountants, that sort of thing.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: So um no, funny enough, no, I haven't.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: And what about things like digital marketing, uh, social media marketing?
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you're seeing more and more people sort of set up their Instagrams, their TikToks, becoming, you know, LinkedIn for me is a fantastic uh, you know, it's like networking on steroids, it's is crazy.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, are you taking advantage of that as an individual or are you standoffish?
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: What's your approach to social media marketing, your services?
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a great thing.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm not particularly good at it myself, funnily enough.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not um I I don't know if it's because I'm a little bit more old school.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know when I've built client banks over the years or been given client banks, you know, been very lucky in that respect.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it's a fantastic thing though for people who are starting off now to just get on there, really get a profile going.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: Don't be afraid to message people like myself, you know.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think that's quite impressive actually when somebody who's new in the industry or trying to get into the industry has the guts to message somebody who's established.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think it shows a bit of drive.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think it's a fantastic um opportunity, but personally I'm not very good at it.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's something I'm not I am on LinkedIn and um I'm not very active on it, you know, I'm not posting things very often.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's very normal because you built a process and a structure of how to build a client bank outside of social media.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: Therefore, you know that that works.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think where we're seeing some new entrepreneurial younger advisors coming through where all they've ever really seen is social media and they believe and think that that's the way that you generate business, I think there's a naivety in some that 100% of their business is purely going to come from social media if they put a post out talking about um what it is they do.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, in firm reality, 10% of your business might come from marketing, and that's if you've got an established marketing strategy that works.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: Then one of the things that I've learned, especially from setting up the Financial Panel Life podcast and the Financial Panel Life brand over the last two and a half years, is that you have to be consistent.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is my hundredth episode, I think, 101 episode.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's over time that brand has become more and seen more and more and more and more.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's now that I'm reaping the rewards two and a half years later.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: I made no money up until that point, I made the money out of my recruitment company, but I've now established the brand, become trusted scene, and it's now starting to make me money in other revenue streams.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um just you know, the one thing that I definitely want people to listen to when they see it is like you're absolutely right.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you're starting out now, get started.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: Just get started on doing it.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if it comes naturally to you, brilliant, yeah.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: But don't invest everything in it and all your time in it, because you're gonna waste time on proven strategies, traditional strategies that work.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: Digital market isn't some sort of silver bullet.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: I've spent thousands of pounds on it in my business, and you know what makes the most money?
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: Picking up the telephone and having a conversation with somebody.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: Pure reach out, networking, connecting.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's the thing that makes you money.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_01: Marketing, social media is merely an ability to push your brand out, and unless you've got thousands of pounds to do it, and then most people don't in the beginning, do they?
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: Then you know you need to go back to traditional things that definitely work.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: And as you build your network, hopefully by the side of it, you're also building your brand online, and at some point it goes, oh look, I've got thousands of followers now, my clients are now seeing it, they're referring me to my page, etc.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: etc.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's part of a strategy, it's not the strategy.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can't rely on that solely.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think people buy people, they want to meet you.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's a big concern of mine, actually, with um the younger generations of today.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: It it is all about social media, but actually, you need to know how to talk to people.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: You need to talk to people on the phone, which is quite a skill.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that a lot of the younger generations today are relying very heavily on social media.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I worry that they're going to miss out on these other, like you say, traditional skills that you do need when you work in this industry.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to be able to sell yourself in person, know how to talk to people, be able to read emotions.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_00: It worries me a little bit that people communicate a bit too much on social media sometimes.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: Sounding very old now.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's actually it could be an issue going forward.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're 100% right, it's going to be an issue going forward because even sort of things like Twitter, where you can sum up a point in 160 words or whatever, you know, everyone seems to think that they can solve a problem by sending a message.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: Look at the things like where people just read, you know, they'll happily comment something negative on somebody's post because they're they don't have to see the impact of the message that they're saying has on that individual's face.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: If I said something nasty about you right now, I'd see on your face how hurtful that is.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if I'm just like, oh, I just term me as an arsehole, I don't I don't see their face.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that's like the reason why there's so much online bullying going on, and my bullying is becoming more prevalent because we're not kids and that aren't seeing the impact it's having and the hurt it actually has.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: But that works in the other way around as well, because you and I are sitting here talking face to face, we're building rapport, oxytocin's being released, we're building a good connection, and I can see you, I can see the expressions, and it's a skill.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you're absolutely right, there is going to be a generation of people that lack that ability because they'd rather FaceTime, not even FaceTime, they'd rather send a message.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: But then we say to ourselves, okay, well, if that's the case, does the profession adopt?
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: Does it change?
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: Does it adapt?
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, not adopt, does it adapt?
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: And will there be more bot-led financial advice?
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's got a place for it.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's 100% got a place for these communities, bot-led, you know, bot-led advice, um, video-based advice.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think all of that is coming.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to again be an addition to not the silver bullet that's going to stop traditional face-to-face.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because we all know that when it comes to a large sum of money, a big decision, I want to see the whites of somebody's eyes because it builds trust and confidence.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think that um what I've been noticing, I think, with with younger clients, they're a lot more au fay with maybe investing than I would have been at that age, um, online investing because of tech now.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, especially Bitcoin and things like that.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: They, when you talk to them, they're used to going online, they're used to doing things online.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you're absolutely right.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: There will be these bot-led advice procedures.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, I think the younger generations will be okay with taking advice from a bot or or online and not speaking to someone or seeing someone.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: But like you were saying, when it comes to more complex matters, I don't think those bots are going to know to ask the right questions to really pull out some information from people, and especially people that don't want to tell you things.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to have that skill to read that actually they're not telling you everything.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've had that a few times over the years, you know, where clients want to talk about pensions, but actually you can see something's not quite right.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had a client years ago who just I just had a feeling.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I said, Look, you need to tell me everything if you want me to give you the best advice.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: And she broke down and she'd accumulated an awful lot of debt that she just was put into the back of her mind.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we got it all sorted, and it was a fantastic feeling, but a bot is never going to be able to find that out, I don't think.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, and I think even if you delve deep into AI, quantum computing, and the future of artificial intelligence.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's a really good book called Scary Smart by the guy who was part of Google X.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: Google X, yeah, Google X.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, this guy is talking about the future of artificial intelligence and the impact it's gonna have on us as from a human perspective, like humanity.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean it's it is scary and it is smart, right?
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: And there is gonna be a situation where a computer can answer any situation that arises quicker, faster, more accurately than what you can as a human being.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the way it's going to be in every aspect of our lives.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: These quantum computers are going to be talking to country to country and whatnot.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing is, these computers, this AI is learning right now based on what we're saying online.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's picking up the information now and it's building that bank of you know how we interact with each other, how we speak to each other.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got this kind of choice now as humans to make a change to how we communicate with each other because it's learning based on who we are at the moment.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_01: Good books to read, scary smart, and I think it opens the idea of what the future holds and how AI can either improve or or or remove, uh sorry, improve or how be detrimental to the existence of the human race in general.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_01: Sci-fi, but very much steeped in science.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really interesting book.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um brilliant, okay, great stuff.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um just tell us a little bit about this, just sum up where you are now then.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you're where are you on your journey right now?
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_00: So um I'm a established advisor now.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, after six, I think 16 years, well that's a long time, going through that graduate scheme for three years, um constantly doing exams.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: That is a big thing, I think, with with this job.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of exams to go through.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't pass them all first time.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: As long as you've got that tenacity and you know, you don't like to give up, you'll get there.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um you get to a place where actually you're given, as I was saying, the respect to do pretty much what you want to do, you know, the flexibility, the seeing the clients that the cases are really interesting, um, you know, the high net worth, dealing with families, clients I've I've known for a longer time.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a really great position to be in, you know, it gives you a good lifestyle, you're helping people with their goals.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love that part of the job, you know, really getting people to sit down and think about what they want to achieve and structuring something for them so that they can get there in the future.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_00: And when you get when you've been working with clients for a few years and they finally get to retirement and they've got the retirement they want, it's a brilliant feeling.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's really good.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and helping their families and so forth.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where I'm at now in a really good position.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: You have put a lot of hard work in over the years, but it's worth it when you get there.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a working mum, I've got a nice work-life balance.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I'm very happy.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, thank you so much for joining me today.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sharing a journey, you've given great advice, great reflection on your personal journey within the profession, and no doubt the listeners will absolutely relate to it, learn something from it, and um be inspired to continue or to join the financial planning profession.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I hope so.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.