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What I've Learnt - Simone O'Brien · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Simon O'Brien is a domestic violence survivor, speaker, strong advocate for women against violence, and mother of three beautiful children.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Her journey started in 2012 when she suffered a horrific attack at the hands of a perpetrator who would not take no for an answer.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: It started with emotional and psychological abuse and ended up with her being beaten with a baseball bat to within inches of her life.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: But somehow, with the support of family and friends, Simone got through that night.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: And today she travels internationally and around Australia to share her story of courage and strength, to raise awareness on the red flags related to domestic violence and prevent these incidences from happening again.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Using her personal story of determination, resilience, courage, and strength, Simon aims to champion non-violence against women and children.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Together, let's stop domestic violence.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Simon, welcome to the What I've Learned podcast.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Deborah, for having me.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's a real honour, and um I look forward to our journey together in this space where it's just such a pandemic in Australia.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: It really is.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's an epidemic.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: I totally agree with you.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: What I find astounding about you, and I saw you speak at a recent carton dinner, which you got an outstanding ovation for because everybody was so moved.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think everybody in the room was crying, with sorrow, but also with extraordinary joy to see you as such an impressive survivor and somebody who got up and told their story in great detail, with accompanying slides, which were pretty devastating to see.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: You described how I think you're have you're on 53 operations in your journey of recovery.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us a little bit about your harrowing story, how you got there, and how you have been on a very powerful healing journey?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so myself and my biological father of my three beautiful, amazing children.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: We actually separated when Zach was two and a half, three years old, and there was no domestic violence.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was too much money.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he just wanted to take me, you know, let's go to Perth, let's go to Sydney, let's go to Fiji on these holidays, or you know, had the million dollar home, the boats, the, you know, all the toys that you need.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I was never with my children.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: They virtually had a full-time nanny, and I just wanted to be a mum.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I'm a country girl by heart, and you know, I was born up, you know, with those strong bones of of family, and I just want to be at home with the children.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we did, we separated when Zach was two and a half, three years old.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I actually stayed in Brisbane at that time.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: We had moved there because that's where his family were from.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm from Country Victoria, you know, because there was no work in the country for him.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And moving there, so with the the children studying at school and different things, I decided to stay because obviously I had my work and my network of friends and different things.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And as time went on, um, you know, still knowing nothing about domestic violence and neither did my children or in my my family, I, you know, just worked and tottered away and life, you know, went by and Gabby got to 15 and Ashlyn got to 12 and a half, 13, and um Zach got to 10.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, how am I gonna, you know, have someone else in my life?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: I work two jobs, three children, you know.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I thought I do love having a beer, but not get nightcups or pups or things like that.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, how am I gonna do this?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: And being in a government office, obviously, you see this you same staff members and you don't want to go down those lines.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so I got on the internet dating site and scrolling through prior to to children, I'd actually been in real estate and I had to finish that because of my children, because it's a you know seven days a week, 24 hours a day.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so scrolling through the men, um, oh Pupter, a real estate agent, and you know what?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: That was like a light bulb moment perfect.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: I knew for him to have that job, he had to have a police check and to get his real estate license, and that was like bliss.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm safe, you know, he's done nothing wrong, he's he's okay.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so we connected through that, and then we spoke for that for quite a few weeks, and then he said, you know, we exchanged numbers and you know, text through our phones, and I said, Yeah, sure.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I put my boundaries in place at nine o'clock at night because my my children still came first, and so that happened.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: He texts for a few weeks and then he said, Can we call?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Absolutely.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we started chatting, and then he asked me out on an actual physical date in person that we'd meet, and that was okay.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: I said yes, and so me being that um protective mum, I still got a sitter in for the children, even though Gab was 15.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um understand, yeah, it makes sense.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: They were at home and he picked me up and he greeted me with a bunch of flowers, and I was like, oh, you know, all Chevrier and and everything, and having not having received flowers for you know a lot of years, and um just having the the I suppose me being treated, you know, respectfully romantically, and yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it's funny because I didn't actually want to say that word only because you know him turning into a perpetrator, and I yeah, that that's that's a but that's interesting you say that because it's the romantic inverted commas wooing and and sort of I suppose tapping into your need to want to feel that is very much part of the agenda, the hidden agenda.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why that's very interesting to refer to that and to note that that's something you that word you feel something you feel uncomfortable with for that reason.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Makes that reason.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: So he he drove us to dinner and and dropped me back home.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: But while I was sitting at dinner, I didn't know actually who who paid.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I hadn't been out for a dinner date for many years.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I was running through my head, do I offer to pay?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is it half or does he pay?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I was very, very grateful he did pay for dinner and dropped me at home.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So moving on from there, we we went into a relationship, you know, days you know, when you ran into each other and you know, obviously me busy and that.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: But what really got me and and hit me hard in the tummy was little red flags.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: So over a period of nine months, that's all the the relationship was.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: But these little red flags were growing and they weren't sitting sitting well with me, though.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like what were they?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what what sort of give me an example?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: And these were like um poor little Zach being 10, um, was getting in trouble for deleting contacts out of my phone.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it never happened before, but I just thought, oh, well, he's doing something different with my phone.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, just to clarify, he was taking, he was deleting contacts out of your phone.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I thought Zach was.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, right.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: You thought your child was, that's right.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: I thought Zach was.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I was actually saying, mate, don't do that.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: I need my phone.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it happened three or four times.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and then so I granted Zach at that stage, but then it kept happening at five or six.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, no, this isn't right because you know, my children listened to what I what I say.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then there was another instance that so that that was happening, and then um my sim card, I had to get a new phone and transferring my SIM card into a new phone.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I can remember this Saturday morning sitting there and I was getting my nails done at the shopping centre, and he, you know, politely said to me, Would you like me and Zach to go and do this um for you?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Oh, oh, okay, yeah, yeah, I yeah, that's what our relationship is, I suppose, helping each other.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I I took it up then.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Zach idolized him because he had not had any male figure in his life, so that's why you know Zach was always with him.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: So he went doing that and he came back and he said, They can't do it.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Oh, why?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's just just uh in their phone.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: He said, The SIM card had a split in it.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: I thought, oh that's weird, it didn't.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, okay, you know, has he done that or what you know, I had to really think about that myself.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the the real obviously other little red flags did grow.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and things like um, I was having to ground Zach for losing his iPad and things like that at basketball.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I did find out after the trial that the perpetrator sold off a lot of my electrical appliances, like um the games and you know, Wii games and all that type of stuff.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: So he's actually was doing it.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: So Zach wasn't losing any of these either.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, and here I'm blaming him for everything, you know, just being that boy figure.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and then it was um taking money out of my wallet, you know.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was introducing him to my my friends, and of course, you know, it's cash one cash per bill per table.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd pay with my credit card and my friends would give me the cash.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: That money was going missing.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: So poor little Zach again said, mate, I said, You can't take my money if you know for Tuck Shop.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Mommy needs it.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And he's you know, this little boy going, Mummy, it wasn't me, I did it, you know.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: How old was Zach?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: How old was 10?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: So his ability to to try and explain something like that is a little limited at 10.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: And therefore and these are also incredibly subtle, aren't they?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because it could it could be the fact that that that was Zack, but it wasn't like really overt acts, no, very surreptitious.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, yeah, absolutely.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: The real clincher was because he was still a gentle giant, would open the car door for me and the children, and never said the word shit or anything worse than that in front of myself or the children.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: The real clincher, what made me really really sick and the Tommy, and you'll probably think, Oh, Simonia, you're so ungrateful.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: But he started sending me flowers to work.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't just one bunch every couple of weeks, it was every day.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, my work colleagues are going, Oh, Simone's a keeper, you know, you you've hit jackpot there.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: I actually felt sick.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: One of the bunches of flowers was so big, I had to get the courage to drop it back at home.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was too big.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: And because he couldn't get into the office to meet my friends, he that was obviously his way of being demonstrative and also trying to, it's almost like overstating his position and showing little regard for your space, which was your work and your friends, absolutely but trying to look like he was a yeah, which is also once again incredibly manipulative, isn't it?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And me not knowing about anything about domestic violence, I wouldn't have thought anything different.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: It just I don't think many women would.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, who would?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: It made me feel sick on the tummy, and that's where now I, you know, either either sex we've got to run with our gut feeling because it's it's normally true and correct.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And anyway, so because of those flowers, I actually ran a girlfriend on the Friday um prior to the the 25th of September 2012, and I said to her, How do I end this relationship now that I'm in it?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I didn't separating amically from the biological father of the children, I you know, I just thought, yeah, ended it.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so she said, let's let's do it on Monday when you drop the children at school.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: I thought, oh yeah, perfect.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: So Monday came, I dropped the two children off, the two oldest girls off on their train to their um high school, and I dropped Zach at um school because he was in primary school and you know, said goodbye to him.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then I caught the train into the CBD of Brisbane.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And on the train, I'm thinking to myself, do I ring, text, or email?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I did the gutless way, I texted.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was such a relief off my shoulders, like, yes.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um anyway, got into work and back then you we didn't have our phones like we do today, like they're our computer today.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so I I didn't check it until lunchtime when I have my lunchtime break, and I could see hundreds of text messages.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't reply or even open them.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: I just used to So he'd sent you, he'd send you hundreds of text messages in response to your breakup.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Breakup, yep, um, up until lunchtime, and then obviously got back into work and same when I finished work um that afternoon at five o'clock, put the train home and I was looking at, you know, not replying or even opening them, just you know, scrolling on the phone.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: And um then got home and Zach was at basketball training this night and walk in and you know, Gab always cooked dinner.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: She was not only my best friend, but you know, my oldest daughter type of thing, and run everything by her.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, you know, how's your day?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: What'd you do?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing boring, you know, typical response every day you get from kids.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: And anyway, I said, Oh, mommy ended the relationship today.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Gabby did a big fist pump and said, Yes.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And Ashlyn said to me, Mummy, will it come back?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, No, darling, when you, you know, end a relationship, like the biological father, you go your separate ways, and you know, it's it's all just runs smoothly, you know, teaching my children life skills.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And next minute there was a knock at the door, and it was 6.06, and I could see it was, and excuse me, any men uh for using this word, but you'll understand why.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I could see the perpetrator at the front door through the little glass thing.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and me saying perpetrator, I not all men are are bad, I'm not here to put men down on the page.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: But he was a perpetrator, this particular person knocking at the door.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's completely reasonable to use that in this context.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: And why I'm doing what I'm doing is I want to make change for us all.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that's um to make it nice for men.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so and I thought my dad always taught me to be respectful to anyone that came to, or vice versa.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm teaching my children that that you do the same thing.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I did, I went and opened the door and said, you know, hi, how are you going?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, Can we talk about this?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, I've got to because it was fair and reasonable.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: I hadn't spoken to him all day.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I said yes, and he came in and we went into my bedroom because the children were in the kitchen, and the girls obviously heard him shut the door, so I heard them outside the door because that was something I didn't do.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: We shut the doors in our in our home, and I walked in first in my obviously my corporate gear.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the only question I can remember um being said or talking about was he asked me, why can't we make this work?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I was open and honest to him.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Look, I said, you deserve someone that can give you 110%.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I I can't, you know, I've got three children, two jobs.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: I said, you know, you deserve more love.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: I said, let's be friends.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: I said, happy to do that, more than happy.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm happy, you know, someone in my network and whatnot, we can we can work together on.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the real question that I remember, um, I don't, you know, if it did go any further.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but walking in and acknowledging that question, and then next minute I realized I was on the ground.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: And the detective investigators don't know if he actually pushed me or I did trip because I had my high heels on.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: But next minute I look up and you'll see a bit of tape on my arm here, and I had to put my arm up to shield my face.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: There was a baseball bat coming down on me, and I know that um my arm was broken because it was actually dipping, and that's when I yelled out to the girls, said girls come in, mommy, need your help.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I need your help.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: And Gabby's eyes, it was like, I'll never forget it.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, Mummy, you can do anything.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: You can, you know, fix a house, a car, and whatever.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I honestly thought I was gonna die because um I pushed off that arm, but obviously the bone was out by this time.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: So just go and get mommy help.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: But the neighbors actually thought the girls were playing games because there was never any domestic violence.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And this is now where in our whole world it's giving me a different look at life.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And in in what I'm doing um now, I don't care what nationality we are, what colour we are, what size we are, what we speak, da da da.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because if it wasn't for the two different nationalities either side of me, I wouldn't be here talking to you today, Deborah, and helping make a change for our next generations.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that was Samoans and South Africa, and they both had to put their life on hold.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: So from 606 to 616, I actually endured 45 to 50 hits to the right side of my face with the baseball bat.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, now I've got a um, this is lost my eyesight here, my sense of smell, this is all titanium plated and with an implant here on my cheekbone, and my jawline is um all was all smashed in as well.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: So by the time the girls were at the front yelling out for help, um they said to um, you know, mummy's got a broken arm, mummy's got a broken arm.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: So the South African lady, by the when the services came, like she was running in saying, Get me ice for mummy's arm, get me ice.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Lucky that she works in the pathology area because she knew when as soon as she seen my face, she said, No, get me dry towels.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: I need dry towels for mummy's head.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she was holding my head together with these dry towels, and she even knew if they were wet, it would have killed me instantly with my brain um being exposed.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: So from that 606 to 616, and during that amount of um hits to the face, um, I was still conscious at this time.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and Karen was holding my head together um until the ambulance, an ambulance doctor came.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: And in the meantime, um the detectives and I mean police arrived, and the the big Samoan boys had to take the perpetrator out and obviously told not to do anything to him.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: But um they did tell me that the cheeky big monkeys, they said we weren't allowed to do anything to him, but we did get a knee in his back and place his face into the dirt until the Dibby van rang came.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um but in the meantime, um I was actually apparently talking to Karen, and you know, I wanted to get up and cook dinner.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she said, no, we'll get the the girls McDonald's later.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then um I wanted to get up and get a tissue, apparently, and and she knew that my face was just mush.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um and she says, No, I'll fix that for you.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Extraordinary story.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is 10 minutes.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Ten minutes in 10 minutes.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, 606 to 616, it changed my life forever.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so he had come armed with this bat, I'm assuming.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Or was the bat there?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Good question.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this is what even Zach was in his statement, he was really questioned on because we weren't baseball people.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what they reckon that he has preempt this, um, which is why the baseball bat was actually there.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first of all, an extraordinary and very powerful story.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I and when you actually told this story at a recent carton function, I think half the room was crying.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I still, I mean, I have goosebumps when I listen to you, because it's the swiftness, it's the completely unprepared.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, how could anyone prepare for this?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he was very just went into the room quietly, there was no threat, there was, he didn't say anything other than, and then it was just unleashed like a maniac.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so from there, I know that you had you suffered some pretty severe injuries.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Do you and they took the perpetrator, and basically what I find amazing is the journey then you had to go on, not only physically and for healing and treatment, as we mentioned, 53, 54 operations just to get things back in order and you're still on that journey.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: I do know this, but also that you have to go on the journey through the courts to get this perpetrator dealt with.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us a little bit about the next steps of what happened once the ambulance arrived and you were you were taken to hospital.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: So um obviously at the scene the children thought I was dead, um, but they did have to put me into an induced coma because any swelling, any um connection with your brain, your brain swells.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where I turned my story into a positive because he lucky he hit me so many times.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: If it was only five or ten, I wouldn't be here talking to you today, definitely not.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: But because he hit me so many times, my skull was shattered.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: So my brain was actually able to move with with as my skull was moving as well.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: So moving forward and you know, waking up um two and a half years later, obviously my getting my brain, you know, thinking that the hospital room was my was my home, and um, you know, not knowing thinking why the kids weren't with me on a daily basis.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I was sitting there flipping cards for hours on end with an OT.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking, why am I doing this?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: And now I do know because um getting movement back into my wrist.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: So the the treatment is still ongoing and will be ongoing for the rest of my life.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the little things now that I do take, um, I treasure, um, even down to to my hair.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've rocked many of weird and wonderful hairdo's, but any little thing, any little person that has given me a tip over my journey, I I've listened to it and I've done it um down to even taking gelatin for healing a um uh the bone in my arm from and having to have a bone graft for my hip from this little old lady.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: The gelatin healed healed my bone um from from just taking that that every day that she told me to do.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I've used horse shampoo on my hair to make grow faster and all this type of stuff.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm just very, very grateful for everyone that has come into my life to help me to get me where I am today.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: So two and a half years after the assault was um the trial, and um it was that long length because of of my brain, they wanted to know, you know, if I had any brain injury, um, etc.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, on that, and and what areas were affected, because obviously when the children had to come and say goodbye to me the first time, they um, you know, they just said, you know, mummy's not gonna survive the night.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the next night when they said it was three to five percent chance, they said mummy's gonna be a vegetable tube fed, not be able to walk or talk or do anything.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: So going into the the trial, the children um did their video evidence, video evidence early, in which um I'm able to actually help the court in that area because I wasn't allowed to go into the with the children to the room.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they actually had a male counsellor in the room with them.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, peeling my children off to go into the room with him, it would have been better off if they had a male, a female counsellor.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: The female, I was about to say, yeah, that's very interesting.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: The smallest thing to help the kids feel safe.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Even though you're not alluding that that all males are not safe, but all you're saying in the context of this story, it it would have been helpful.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, definitely.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and um, so yeah, um obviously moving forward um with all that and this being in Brisbane, um the perpetrator did get life for attempted murder and was still pleading not guilty after after.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: At all.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And um I couldn't even attempt that.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's so many witnesses.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just surreal.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Just on that note, sorry, did the system, did you feel the system?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, two and a half years later, I understand they were waiting until they felt you had the clarity and strength to deal with it.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: What happened to him in that interim period?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: He was in remand.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: He knows he went straight.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, he wasn't out on bail.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that's no, which is not on.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, we know how and we can talk about that, the issue of how many of them are out on bail when they commit the next atrocity.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where, you know, Australia, we need to work together in this domestic violence space because I was told when I spoke to at a function of police um for Australia, New Zealand, that if this had actually happened in Victoria to me, he might have only got two, two and a half years and out in bail in nine months.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: We're not we know what that consequence is because then they just go on to to offend again.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where I want to me talking about the red flags, the importance of reporting is because, you know, obviously when I said I met him at the start in his real estate and, you know, the seven-day job, da da da, and understanding, you know, he didn't have a any family, etc.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: After the court hearing and his face went around Australia because of the result, two wives actually came forward and he actually assaulted both of them.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the second one's parents, I shouldn't be sitting here talking to you about domestic violence.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: I shouldn't be a prisoner in my own body.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: That first wife had spoken up, he would have it had a bad mark against his name, so he wouldn't have got his real estate license.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: See the ripple effect that from one person speaking up, we can save many more lives.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a very, yeah, very important.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was actually reading this week on that note.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: More than 70% of men who killed their current or past female partners had at least two interactions with police.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: The legal system or child protection before the killings, an analysis of a decade's worth of sentencing comments has revealed.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Data collected from 10 years of judges' comments in sentencing 235 men around Australia for the violent deaths of their intimate female partners showed nearly one in five was on bail or parole when they committed the murder or manslaughter.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, to your point, yeah, not only are we talking about reporting small things like you just outlined, but also the bail laws have to change.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's insane.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, absolutely.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: What did it says here?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: More than three out of five of the killers, 68% had a prior engagement with police, and 65% had prior engagement in a legal setting.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like it's just insane.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't understand.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: And what you're referring to is very important moving forward.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that's like the second, the second um wife sister actually has contacted me and they actually told she actually told me it took them 12 months to get her out safely from this this perpetrator.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, and that's if we need to to save our next generations coming up, you know, and we've all got either daughter, nieces, sisters, aunts, or whatever, we need to protect us all.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And this is speaking up is how we're gonna save save our next generations coming up.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: So do you think so?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you talk about she was trying to get her out for 12 months.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, was that because the second wife was resistant?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Was it because I mean, had they had any contact with police or anyone?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: No, just just controlling of her, just the manipulation of her.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I said he still pleaded not guilty with me after 70 odd witnesses.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in this in my case, yeah, that's what to get her out safely from 12 months, not just them as a family, it was the community.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, amazing.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um quite extraordinary.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: And do you think on your journeys?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you're travelling around both Australia and the globe, talking in the, you know, your bravery, your courage, your story, your willingness to share great details, which I know would be very challenging.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that it's almost like I know that certainly when I saw you speak, the Carlton function, I think it was just the shock.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like we almost need to shock the system.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: And the and the sort of professionals, be they legal, be they police, as you go and speak to everybody in those arenas, to let them know that if change isn't isn't made, we are going to get this continued.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: What is it, 35 women already this year?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: 44.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: 44 now.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it just goes up.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they put the numbers, it's almost hard to comprehend that this is uh ongoing, as you referred to pandemic or epidemic.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Are you, what is your experience when you go in when you're going around to some of these institutions and you're speaking or whether you're speaking to the police or whether you're speaking at schools, what do you see as intrinsic to change and are you seeing any traction?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, thank you for bringing that up.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've actually started working with um in men's behaviour change programs, which I never thought I'd be able to sit in a room with perpetrators.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Just to clarify, was that men behaviour, just men's behavior change programs?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um something I didn't think I would ever be able to do.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: But do you know what?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's just send shivers through me now.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Going in there and these men actually saying, I did strangle her five times, or I read a poem out at the end, and at the end of the poem, the perpetrator actually kills the wife after, you know, it's about flowers, and having them come up and say, Smone, can I have a copy of that?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's me.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: I've had um several men self-refer themselves because they can see themselves doing to their five-year-old daughter what their dad used to do to them and their mum.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what the biggest win is in that?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is um going into the schools then in the same area.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm getting year nine girls come out cuddling smone and like like she's known me forever.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: She goes, I can't thank you enough for saving my stepfather's life.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: He's now pleaded guilty, he's now not drinking, he's doing all these, you know, programs to help himself.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's that ripple effect that we are we we are winning, you know, and that's um a motto of to save women, we need to help men, basically.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that's I don't want to put that out there that all men are bad because it's only you know, but if we can get men picking up their their their junior boys if they're doing something wrong, or if little Johnny has seen dad or an uncle do something all the years, he's gonna think it's the norm, you know.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: So you're saying break the pattern and break the history of this, it's sort of been um fostered that it's acceptable in certain families.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: And and do you find that often because I I just find it extraordinary when a man can do that to a woman, it's really hard to comprehend.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that many of the men in my life, and many of the men I'm sure in your life, can't comprehend it either.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, their their mission is like in life is to protect women and to sort of look after them and take care of their daughters, their sisters, their mothers, their wives.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: So where is this toxic twist happening?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is it alcohol related?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Is it drug related often?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is it how do we get where does this aberration come from?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: And and just going back to that, um, what you'd said earlier, you know, any important points that I've been able to get in my travel.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been flying to Orange for the last five weeks to to speak to a mine every week for five weeks at the same mine, but 500 men, I'm gonna say in the room, there of those 500 men, not 95% of them were men, sorry, and 5% women.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I did that for five weeks.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh one case um every week, even 25-year-olds just come up to someone, we just want to touch you and just say thank you.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: What one guy, I think it was Yugoslavian of nationality, he came up to me, he goes, I need help.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: I just said, Are you okay?
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Is everything all right?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Um, he said, No, he said, It's me.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I'm I I'm I'm bad.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I need to get help for that.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: I said, What do you mean?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, I still act like the king at home.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: He said, My wife model coddles everything.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, I've got two girls.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, I don't want them treated that there's always a king in the family.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: He says, I want them to think normal level.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Do you know what?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Congratulations for owning that.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I said, go home and own it to your wife and tell her you want to get help.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: And these are the these are the good how I've turned my story from a negative into a positive.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I want our nation to do.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: And even down to mental health, you know, if we've got to wear the the green mental health um hat at work because we we're in counseling or something like that, wear with pride because then you can get other people to be in the same um positive mindset and get them into a good mindset, you know, talk about that in a positive as well.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: So sorry, I've gone off on a little tangent there, but no, but that makes sense.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: So what you're saying is that by talking, communicating, and what you're actually saying is that we need to also we need to look after our men as well, to and make sure that they have a sense of understanding.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: But but but at the end of the day, I suppose where we have to identify too is where does this aberration grow from?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: The anger, the resentment, the uncontrollable violence.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you're saying that by even having these talks where you're going around and speaking to men, you're coming across a lot of men who want help but just don't know where to go and don't know how to unravel learned patterns, really.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Is it some sort of do you think it's familial and historical?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel where can government and and various bodies that are now we're obviously got increased funding this year towards supporting some of these programs?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um but where do you see the main cornerstone of change on your journey with community?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Helping men, making men, you know, not making them keeping men at a high, only only in what they've done, but then getting them to go out and help change for the next generation, like I'm doing, from them being doing bad stuff, then turning their life into a positive, and then going through our next generations and helping them and saying, No, you know, it's not okay to do this.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've done this, and you know, I shouldn't have done it, I've had to do this.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Explain what's hit how his life has been that wouldn't have been nice either to get him into that nice mindset.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to focus more on men, changing men, and that's I think you know, I've done a lot of flying the last two months, and it's all apart from the minds, a lot of women in at places where you know it would have been nice to have have men there as well, but also putting domestic violence as a part of our education.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we need to, you know, start them young, and that's where you know, when I've done preppies, you know, they're always putting their hand up.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: They want to tell you what's happening at home, and that hand at home could be why their schooling's being affected as well.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, interesting.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: So you finding going into schools is a really important part of your education program.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: I know you do a lot with Carlton as well, and you're going into schools.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you're getting they're they're receptive.
• 32:59
  unknown: Yes.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Are you finding?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, with the younger generations, I talk about obviously the red flags, and I I say, let's put up a mural so that you can see where your red flag is up on the wall every day, like in the library or something.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that that's great because you know, a little two-year-old seeing what they set up on, they think it's hi, it's cool, you know, they want to show mum or dad or whatever, it's it's important to them.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that's something that they can see every day.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, with the teachers working with them on that, at least then it's putting them back into a right frame of mind that it's not okay to do that.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: So are you finding that by educating the kids, but also this the teachers to be aware that and to be open to discussion and then the infrastructure of the school and then the police and then the court system.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, so just in terms of I suppose layered infrastructure, yeah, what do you see um over and above education, which I know you work at the coal face of and a bit phenomenal your story?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I'm assuming that you you um somewhat have to um adapt your story to your audience.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I have no doubt.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how do you find the police?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because once upon a time, you know, women were um, I I have a friend who's a judge, and she's like, Oh, you know, they just used to be called to a domestic.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it was just seen as, oh, it's just a domestic, don't worry about it.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: And the police would just sort of go knock on the door, oh, you're right, mate.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, but yeah, it's changing their also their approach, which I think is changing.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is that your observation?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and that's where I do go into and speak to the police cadets, and you know, my emphasis to them is any little red flag turns into a big red flag.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that you know, don't don't just sweep, you know, the deleting contacts under the carpet.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, keep unpacking the situation.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's, you know, my biggest thing with anyone out there, whether it's police or children or you know, whoever that I I speak to, I I unpack it.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: And more than not, you know, I spoke at a an old girl's school and she said, Oh, my my friend is being stalked by her ex and just asking her questions.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: I said, This wouldn't be you that you're talking about, is it?
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: And she goes, Yes.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, and that's where keep asking, be that nagging mum like me.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Don't just ask someone three or four times, ask them that five or six, and they'll eventually say, you know, oh, this is happening or this is happening.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, we need to keep working with our our next generations and you know, to say women, we need to help men.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really poignant point.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: And do you feel are you hopeful?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you see change?
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: I I I it it's not gonna happen today or tomorrow.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: We've all got to work together, like across our nation.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's not, you know, just whatever bit we do, just go in the right direction that we're helping everyone in in the the same direction and not making life harder.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some people just um conflict of interest and whatever.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just, you know, keep working together.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let's be one across Australia to stamp out this domestic violence.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think that is so true and so important to work as a community together.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I thank you so much, Simone, for your time, your energy, your courage, your story.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope that our listeners take what you say on board and and act accordingly.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: And if you see a red flag, act on it.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I know you're available if people want to contact you, or you know, there's a whole lot of resources now, but we still have a lot of work to do.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: We do, absolutely.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, meanwhile, you take care, look after yourself.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that you also do marathons and you run, and you're you're the most like mind-blowingly inspiring woman.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I love the way that you have just shown to the world that you can survive and you can go on to be a valued and important mother, sister, community member driving the force for change, which you're doing.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for your time.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, thank you very much.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's been a complete honour.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind, and curious.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: Love Dev.