Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Dylan Rees & Luke Molloy about their choice of Mindwarp (2/4)

Transcript

Talks to Dylan Rees & Luke Molloy about their choice of Mindwarp (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:22
  None. A hamster with a blunt.
• 0:34
  Penknife for doing quicker. Quicker.
• 0:39
  Welcome back to a hamster with a blunt penknife.
• 0:42
  A penknife. Penknife.
• 0:44
  A Doctor Who commentary podcast. I'm Dylan.
• 0:47
  I'm not the host. I'm also here with Luke, who's
• 0:49
  not the host. And I'm here with Joe, who is
• 0:51
  the host. Hello, Joe.
• 0:52
  Hello. Luke Hello.
• 0:55
  So here we are to discuss more Mind Warp.
• 0:58
  Let's do the Mind warp again. I'm here all week.
• 1:04
  Where are you? Oh well, at the moment I'm in
• 1:07
  Antwerp, which is a lot like being in my mind walking that
• 1:10
  I've got the lights right down. I'm glad you said that, because
• 1:13
  Luke Malloy did ask us, in fact in in the first episode how we
• 1:16
  were doing. And I told everyone how I was
• 1:18
  doing and where I was, and you didn't say a word.
• 1:20
  And they've been waiting a week to find out how you are.
• 1:23
  I'm fine everyone. I'm fine.
• 1:25
  If if I wasn't fine, I probably wouldn't be here.
• 1:27
  To be honest. I'll probably just stand you up.
• 1:31
  Can I tell you something? Right.
• 1:32
  You know what he said to me earlier?
• 1:33
  My other half, I told Lucas before you turned.
• 1:35
  Up and I know what's coming. He goes, oh, you're talking to
• 1:38
  your cunts tonight I went, excuse me, he goes, it's your
• 1:42
  Tuesday crowd in it because obviously we're recording for
• 1:44
  six weeks. On Tuesday he goes, so you can
• 1:46
  always say see you next Tuesday. I said, oh, I suppose I have
• 1:48
  seen a lot of cunts tonight, yeah.
• 1:50
  Excellent. We are the cunts.
• 1:51
  We are this together. The.
• 1:54
  Doc, the docky who cunts. And there's no bigger cunt than
• 1:57
  Colin Baker's Doctor. Should we go into episode?
• 1:59
  Two, definitely. Great segue.
• 2:03
  Thank you. Who's cancers in?
• 2:08
  54321. Can I say because you brought up
• 2:16
  a really interesting point at the end of episode one.
• 2:18
  Luke Malloy. Oh, no.
• 2:19
  Shocking, but. That's album one day.
• 2:23
  About how Colin Baker's characterisation in this after
• 2:28
  sort of delivering us the softer 6IN mysterious planet is a
• 2:33
  massive step back to what was before.
• 2:36
  I kind of think, like, this is absolutely a parody of where we
• 2:40
  started this era, because there's so much comedy in it
• 2:43
  this time, you know? I don't think you can do that.
• 2:47
  I don't think you can get criticism.
• 2:49
  No, I don't think you get criticism for being horrible in
• 2:52
  season 22 have won four parts. So that's middle of the road
• 2:56
  where he's all right and then do a parody of being horrible.
• 2:59
  You need you need a couple of stories under your.
• 3:02
  Bone What do you think about Peter Capelli being intolerable
• 3:05
  in his first season? Half of the time it's funny and
• 3:10
  half of the time he's a massive dickhead and and it and it
• 3:14
  shows. Because I I didn't take two
• 3:16
  straight away. The general public certainly
• 3:18
  didn't fucking take two straight.
• 3:19
  Away. Some of them never took to him
• 3:21
  at all. No, some of them.
• 3:22
  I've only just realized Doctor Who's back.
• 3:25
  They thought it's been cancelled for the past 10 years.
• 3:28
  Well, I think in The Twin Dilemma, Colin Baker is playing
• 3:31
  the psychopath in Mind Warp, Colin Baker is playing the
• 3:35
  comedy Psychopath, and it is gentler is the Way.
• 3:39
  I I I don't think. I mean, it's gentler in the way
• 3:42
  that he doesn't strangle anyone to death.
• 3:45
  He ties her up to a Cliff. Yeah.
• 3:47
  It's ties coming in. Some people like.
• 3:49
  That. But I think even with the Twin
• 3:51
  Dynami at least, the explanation at least is that he's suffering.
• 3:55
  Regeneration, whatever. With this, it's like you just
• 3:59
  left. What did he do it?
• 4:01
  Well, so can I now give you the explanation?
• 4:03
  Because Philip Martin does give the explanation as to why the
• 4:06
  Doctor behaves this way in episode two of My Money.
• 4:08
  He doesn't. Give it on screen, Joe.
• 4:11
  But what? I know, I'm interested to know
• 4:13
  what it is. So the idea is is.
• 4:16
  King Yakanas. Has had that helmet on his head,
• 4:19
  yeah. And it basically takes a copy of
• 4:21
  his mind. And then the doctor had that
• 4:24
  helmet on his head and like some residual mad warrior is inside
• 4:28
  him now because he's had it on as well.
• 4:30
  And that was supposed to be in the script.
• 4:32
  And for whatever reason, so Ward excised it.
• 4:36
  So Joe, have you ever had any residual mad warrior inside you?
• 4:40
  Quite frequently, mate, especially when I visited your
• 4:42
  house. But then, I can't imagine King.
• 4:46
  You can't Lost Time Perry up to a rock.
• 4:48
  And I mean, I bet he gets sick up to all sorts.
• 4:52
  Of things you didn't let me finish.
• 4:56
  I was waiting for someone to make a joke.
• 5:00
  You've been waiting a long time with us too.
• 5:03
  No, I I do struggle with Collins performance.
• 5:06
  It's just all round. I think he just plays it too.
• 5:08
  Horrible. What?
• 5:10
  Here or in general. No.
• 5:12
  When? As soon as we start reaching
• 5:13
  that point where he turns, I think he just plays it too
• 5:17
  horribly. The stuff on the rock with Perry
• 5:19
  is a bit too visual. Unless you're going to actually
• 5:22
  say that that I think, I don't even think you can just say that
• 5:26
  he's he's had his head mushed up because it's so visually
• 5:30
  horrible. I think you have to say it
• 5:32
  literally didn't happen in the Valley.
• 5:33
  Art edited it. But if the idea is that he, the
• 5:36
  value add is distorting the evidence to condemn the doctor,
• 5:39
  then he's got to present a doctor that's irredeemable.
• 5:43
  Yeah, exactly. So if we were.
• 5:45
  How do you win that within this story?
• 5:47
  Well, but yeah, but that's not the explanation, is it?
• 5:49
  It's never explained. But if it was explained that you
• 5:52
  could buy it, but it still doesn't do enough, the other way
• 5:55
  of just reverting back to the evil Doctor, it would work a
• 5:59
  hell of a lot better if we'd had a couple more cuddly Colin
• 6:01
  stories. And there are belts.
• 6:03
  Yeah, I guess that's the only cuddly Colin story we sort of
• 6:06
  got is the mysterious planet where that relationship's
• 6:10
  better? And we're about to have the
• 6:12
  cuddliest one in terror, the Vervo it's But yeah, it's almost
• 6:15
  like, too, too late, isn't? It he's worse here than he is in
• 6:18
  Arc of Infinity and he's literally playing a buddy isn't.
• 6:23
  It did. Does Philip Martin write that
• 6:25
  other sill? Big Finish?
• 6:26
  The Not the Lost Story One. The one that's.
• 6:28
  Antidote to oblivion. Yeah.
• 6:31
  I think he does, and that was dreadful as well.
• 6:33
  Would we like to see Sill in the new series?
• 6:36
  I'm not sure. Why not?
• 6:38
  It's an 80s thing, I think. I can't decide whether Nabil
• 6:42
  Shaban would be too over the top playing him on modern
• 6:45
  television. What's that like?
• 6:48
  The The new series is not capable.
• 6:51
  It's given us madly over the top villains.
• 6:53
  Yeah, I know that's true. I was about to say look Alan
• 6:55
  coming, but you know now Brian Blessed claims he was offered
• 7:01
  the role of Doctor Who. Do we believe that or do we
• 7:04
  think or do we think he's a madman like in the in the 60s or
• 7:08
  70s? And I wonder whether that was.
• 7:12
  I wonder whether he once had an availability check for Doctor
• 7:15
  Who. If if it's true, I could sort of
• 7:18
  see them, maybe because he didn't have to jump away.
• 7:23
  I know blessed has been. All the points.
• 7:26
  Boxed into a corner as like the shouty actor because he's done a
• 7:29
  lot of shouting throughout his career.
• 7:32
  But he wasn't always that. Man, have you seen in our
• 7:34
  Claudius like, he's incredible in that.
• 7:37
  And if you go and watch any old clips of Zed Carson, I've never
• 7:39
  seen a full episode is. That oh, what's the character's
• 7:41
  name in that? I couldn't tell.
• 7:43
  You. I've only seen the feast of
• 7:44
  Steven. Have you got it?
• 7:48
  But but you know he's a normal actor in that and he suddenly
• 7:52
  Brian Blessed was also quite popular as the tabloids.
• 7:54
  Favorite to be, you know, a movie doctor as well in in the
• 7:57
  in the 90s because they had no imagination.
• 8:00
  Is there an alternate universe where Brian Bessard's The 4th
• 8:03
  Doctor and Tom Baker is King Yukonov?
• 8:06
  I hope so, God. Tom Baker could have aced this
• 8:08
  role, but even in this story, Blessed, like in episode 4, has
• 8:12
  quiet moments. The Unbound Yukonov, you know he
• 8:19
  does actually. There's there's actually,
• 8:21
  there's a moment that you're on, isn't there, between him and
• 8:23
  Perry. And yeah, and it actually sells
• 8:26
  it somehow. It does actually sell it.
• 8:29
  Yeah, in a very sort of 80s. We haven't thought about this
• 8:32
  way. Yeah, in a very like we've.
• 8:33
  Got What's really sad is at that point Perry's going, oh, I just
• 8:36
  want to be back with people I love back home on Earth, just
• 8:38
  before she gets murdered horribly.
• 8:41
  The irony, although what works brilliantly, is what Blessings
• 8:45
  says in the documentary about him and Perry is that they're
• 8:48
  they're already married before the relationships begun, because
• 8:52
  they're squabbling. She's always telling him off,
• 8:54
  he's picking her up and she's kicking her feet like it's
• 8:57
  effectively A sitcom marriage, isn't it on the screen.
• 9:00
  And it's quite similar to what she's had with the 6th Doctor
• 9:04
  and and and somehow enjoyed that company, so now she's just got
• 9:09
  someone who's not going to strangle.
• 9:11
  Her. Yeah, I mean, she's she's got a
• 9:12
  lot of trauma to deal with. Perry has, and she deals with it
• 9:15
  in the Piscon Paradox a little bit.
• 9:17
  But. Well, that's right.
• 9:19
  She starts a chat show, doesn't she?
• 9:20
  And has lots of facial surgery. Well, there's a couple of
• 9:23
  different versions of Perry Roommate, but yeah.
• 9:26
  The end of that story, Dylan, where she says run go, oh,
• 9:30
  Nicola Bryan is so good in that. She's, she's.
• 9:32
  She's rather good in this as well, I think.
• 9:34
  She is, she is. And if anybody hasn't heard
• 9:37
  Perry on the Piscon Paradox, then you should go and pick it
• 9:40
  up. Written by her beau Neve
• 9:43
  Fountain. I've not heard it, but I've
• 9:46
  heard. I've heard it's a really,
• 9:48
  really, really good one. Yeah.
• 9:49
  It is. It's one of those things that
• 9:52
  spin off media, should do more, but also constantly cocks up of
• 9:57
  trying to give somebody like a reason for why they are like
• 10:00
  they are and who they become. But too often it's wrapped up in
• 10:04
  so much continuity that it doesn't really work, whereas
• 10:06
  this is just about getting to the core of the character.
• 10:08
  Sorry, we're talking over big paintings, aren't we?
• 10:10
  Well, no. That that shot there, that long
• 10:12
  shot, well, the whole set. And then with the sort of glass
• 10:16
  shot going around it as well, like even 22, they would never
• 10:18
  have done that. Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:21
  We're coming on, you know, we're becoming more televisual.
• 10:25
  Yeah, and this, that processing of people.
• 10:27
  I don't really know what's going on there, but I'm just like, oh,
• 10:29
  this is a dystopian society and. It says.
• 10:32
  The bigger world? There's a line where he goes,
• 10:34
  We've given you a whole race of people to play with to get this
• 10:38
  right. I mean, that's pretty dark in
• 10:39
  itself, isn't it? They've handed them this entire
• 10:42
  race of people to experiment on. Who do you think?
• 10:45
  Do you think Euthanas has his own eyeliner, or do you think
• 10:47
  someone does it for him? He does his own.
• 10:50
  He's got YouTube videos I think now.
• 10:52
  You know he he doesn't give Dorf the pen.
• 10:58
  Oh. He's great.
• 10:59
  I do like the idea that what's what's his name, the one that's
• 11:05
  not sill Oh. Kiv.
• 11:07
  Kiv Yeah, I like the idea that Kiv's brain is like the pressure
• 11:11
  is literally pushing on his score because his brain is so.
• 11:14
  And you see it, don't you, In the in in in his mask, it's got
• 11:17
  two lumps at the top. Yeah, I think that's great.
• 11:19
  I think it's like a proper it's grotesque, but great, you know?
• 11:23
  I think he's really savvy. Christopher Ryan as well,
• 11:25
  because he doesn't really play it for laughs because he knows
• 11:28
  that's what Nibby or Shaban's doing.
• 11:30
  Yeah, he plays it like he's genuinely in pain the whole
• 11:32
  time, this great performance. This is horrible where she's
• 11:35
  going. Doctor, help me.
• 11:36
  She's got a gun and she's like, please help me.
• 11:39
  And he's just like now. You're right.
• 11:41
  It's very deep breath, isn't it? Ah, yeah.
• 11:44
  Deep breath, Dylan. I can't think one that viewers
• 11:47
  were abandoning the show during the season 22 and series 8.
• 11:52
  There is a there is a pave, isn't it?
• 11:54
  I mean, I wonder, like as much as I I quite enjoyed this,
• 11:57
  whether this is the big misfire of the season, of him reversing
• 12:00
  to type. As you say, it's played more for
• 12:02
  laughs, but it's still, you know, it's still that doctor
• 12:05
  being horrible to Perry. And I think if you don't, if
• 12:09
  you've not got on board with Colin's Doctor by this point,
• 12:12
  sit him being evil and playing it for laughs doesn't work.
• 12:16
  I don't think it works. I don't think he's particularly
• 12:18
  funny. Oh, I think he's hilarious.
• 12:21
  But I remember when I when I watched this when I was 13, this
• 12:24
  was the one where I didn't like him, you know?
• 12:27
  All the rest are. Very cool when I was great
• 12:29
  because it was evil. Evil Doctor, you know.
• 12:31
  Well, this this is something that I wanted to get into about
• 12:35
  why I think Eric say what is exactly the right script editor
• 12:38
  for this moment. He may not be a very good, he
• 12:40
  may not be a very good one. I've been.
• 12:42
  Waiting for this, Dylan. Off you go.
• 12:44
  In terms of what he does with, I would say Davison's final era
• 12:48
  and for Collins two seasons is it's this.
• 12:52
  It's very much reflected of the times and we're in a world of
• 12:56
  Terminator and RoboCop and Aliens and everybody goes.
• 13:00
  All those things aren't meant for kids, but I was a fan of
• 13:02
  those things as kids and Toys-R-Us was full of toys of
• 13:05
  those things when I was a kid. And it's this is the sort of
• 13:08
  thing that I think kids of the late 80s wanting to watch.
• 13:12
  They're wanting to watch action films and Ultraviolet and dark
• 13:16
  and inverted commas thing. So I think he's been people
• 13:18
  often talk about the video nasty thing, but I don't think it's
• 13:21
  video nasty. So I think it's 80s blockbuster
• 13:24
  action and sci-fi that it's trying to replicate and emulate
• 13:28
  here. And I think so.
• 13:29
  I think it's it's a Doctor Who specifically for that era era,
• 13:32
  and that's what Eric Saywood delivers.
• 13:36
  You're absolutely right. I mean, that's why people
• 13:38
  reacted badly to Pippin J Baker Scripts and Season 24 at the
• 13:42
  time. I think mine warps about as far
• 13:46
  as you can take it with, with, you know, him effectively
• 13:51
  torturing his companion and then not being there at the end of
• 13:53
  the story when she's killed. But, and I think this is a great
• 13:57
  place for Eric Sayward to bow out and effectively this is
• 14:00
  where it was. I know he was involved in terror
• 14:03
  of the verboids, but I don't know if he did a lot of it and
• 14:06
  certainly ultimate photos where it all fell apart.
• 14:08
  So this is the last sort of story that he had a ton of
• 14:10
  involvement in. And I think this explores the
• 14:13
  themes of this era to his extreme.
• 14:18
  So maybe this is a good place for him to bow out.
• 14:20
  You know, it's like, this is as far as you can take it.
• 14:22
  Yeah, I think bring on Andrew Cartmell.
• 14:24
  I think at this point he was hearing that, that bottle of
• 14:27
  wine in his in his drawer quite often, you know.
• 14:31
  Bucket Kill Perry. I got to say, Nabil Shaban's one
• 14:38
  liners are great. What's it?
• 14:41
  What's what's more? What's what's worth more?
• 14:43
  My health or your wealth? A tricky question.
• 14:47
  Magnificent. It's.
• 14:49
  Great. It's fantastic.
• 14:53
  It doesn't help, though, that we are going for this grittier
• 14:57
  tone. And Colin, the Six Doctors,
• 15:00
  dressed like that, is it? I mean, that's not Eric Seward's
• 15:03
  fault because it was John Nayford, certainly.
• 15:05
  I don't mind that. I like the costume, but I think
• 15:08
  if you're going for that tone and that is the sort of era of
• 15:11
  the show. What's weird is that costume
• 15:14
  seems to have been claimed by fandom now because it's very
• 15:17
  like a tried flag. It's very colourful, so it
• 15:20
  almost seems an expression of that part of fandom.
• 15:24
  I follow a lot of fashion like vlogs and blogs and and
• 15:28
  Instagram accounts, and the amount of times you see big,
• 15:32
  long, colourful patchwork coats. Now it's, I'm not saying
• 15:36
  directly inspired by Colin. Baker But I saw a picture of
• 15:39
  David Tennant in something very similar to Colin Baker's coat
• 15:42
  recently. Yeah, so the Colin Baker looks
• 15:45
  in at the moment. The words yours.
• 15:48
  What we're saying. I didn't say I was a fashionable
• 15:50
  individual. I just said that I follow a lot
• 15:52
  of fashion blogs. I only buy vintage anyway, so
• 15:56
  you know I can't buy a new coat. He's a London boy.
• 15:59
  He only buys. Vintage.
• 16:00
  He's a London boy. He's down Camden all the time.
• 16:07
  What's Terry up to? She's sort of sneaking around
• 16:10
  whilst Martha's dad comes up behind.
• 16:12
  Was she looking through? And there was another one of the
• 16:15
  mentors there. That's right.
• 16:17
  He was at the console. Yeah, I've.
• 16:18
  Never noticed. That before?
• 16:20
  Yeah, an extra mentor, even though it's probably just
• 16:23
  someone in kids outfit. You are right though, this this
• 16:26
  is a fully realised world, isn't it?
• 16:29
  Now then you and I did Dragonfly recently.
• 16:32
  We did say some nice things about the sets and things like
• 16:34
  that, but we also complained that it was over later times and
• 16:38
  that ice was billowing in the wind and things like this.
• 16:41
  There's none of that. None of that here is.
• 16:43
  It this feels totally convincing, like a proper world.
• 16:46
  And actually, when I was watching the deleted scenes,
• 16:49
  there's a few cases in them of like, wobbly sets.
• 16:52
  And I thought, I bet they've been deleted not because of the
• 16:54
  scenes, but because that that, you know, the door wobbles or
• 16:58
  the wall wobbles and you're like, this is someone thinking,
• 17:00
  no we don't, we need this to look good.
• 17:02
  It can't look like it can't look like shitty old doctor.
• 17:06
  Who? I can't look at Dorf.
• 17:08
  I just. It's just horrible.
• 17:10
  It's again. It's convincing though, isn't
• 17:12
  it? It's.
• 17:13
  Too convincing this math that absolutely terrifies me and
• 17:16
  those. Massive things.
• 17:17
  Like I remember watching. And that's one of the good guys.
• 17:21
  That's worse. That is worse looking than the
• 17:23
  the warning tooth and claw and that's done quite well there.
• 17:27
  Yeah, it's just, it's just horrible.
• 17:29
  It makes it looks. Like a man screaming.
• 17:32
  I want to shower, yeah. Oh my God.
• 17:35
  These scenes now in Matrona Carney's lair.
• 17:38
  Do you wish me to denounce you? You're going to be one of my
• 17:41
  whores, you know? So these are sex workers, right?
• 17:45
  They are totally finally, Eric Saywood has made Perry into a
• 17:48
  sex worker. He's been trying for seasons.
• 17:51
  But I love. I love.
• 17:52
  This this is getting paid for this so.
• 17:54
  Bed lights in the corridors and stuff like, again, these
• 17:57
  corridors aren't much different to snake dance, but they they're
• 18:00
  just lit. Well, there's no sort of stroke
• 18:02
  doesn't. This room, it's just like a
• 18:05
  beaded curtain, but it's just really suffusely lit.
• 18:09
  Oh, look at her. Look at her costume.
• 18:12
  Do these women have to fuck the the mentors?
• 18:15
  Oh. Dylan.
• 18:17
  I thought that was the implication.
• 18:19
  Yeah. And did they do it with that
• 18:20
  little thing at the end of their tail or?
• 18:22
  They can't. That's the sting, isn't it?
• 18:24
  He's got Sting, isn't it? I am not going to sleep tonight.
• 18:30
  Oh dear, let's. They do give.
• 18:31
  Me, a future armour, you know, with the Amazon women vibes,
• 18:35
  yeah. Do you remember when I said to
• 18:38
  you guys last night in Bang Bang, a boom?
• 18:40
  There was too much kink and I can't handle it.
• 18:42
  Well, well done you've done. It's a mind walk now as well.
• 18:45
  Your mind has been warped. I want to think about the end of
• 18:47
  Sil's tail going upside up Perry's skirt.
• 18:51
  We never said that. We never said.
• 18:53
  That didn't literally just. He didn't say that.
• 18:55
  I was talking about the other women, actually.
• 18:57
  It was no implication that Sil's ever banged Perry.
• 19:00
  You know, I quite I do quite like this relationship between
• 19:03
  the werewolf and Yukonos. I love the bit when he dies.
• 19:06
  Sanga Boom. He dies.
• 19:08
  At the end. And then Yukonos has a really
• 19:10
  sweet moment, doesn't he? Where he goes?
• 19:11
  No, no, He died fighting. Yeah.
• 19:14
  I think Yukonos is actually, for all of his mad theatrics, A
• 19:18
  believable character. Yeah, Do we he?
• 19:21
  Should have been the 1st. Doctor, do you know what I'm
• 19:26
  thinking now? And I'm thinking it might even
• 19:27
  have been the 6th Doctor. Yeah, I think he would have been
• 19:30
  a pretty no. I imagine him straddling Perry
• 19:33
  in the Twin Dilemma, the size. Of him he'd.
• 19:36
  Flatten her. I think I.
• 19:41
  Think it might have worked better.
• 19:44
  Why, When they learn how to do something classic, who do they
• 19:48
  promptly forget again? Because those strobe lights in
• 19:51
  the corridor are so effective. The end of this episode is a
• 19:55
  close up on Colin Faker's face in the dark, and then all of a
• 19:58
  sudden a flicker of strobe hits his face and then we out to the
• 20:02
  music. It's so effective, they never do
• 20:05
  it again. It's because they it just
• 20:07
  depended on. You just got assigned like a
• 20:09
  lighting director for your studio and it was all about, it
• 20:13
  was all about how they wanted to do it and whether they're a
• 20:16
  collaborative or not. But some of them, like the big
• 20:18
  thing was to just like make the light hit the certain points
• 20:22
  where people's faces are going to be.
• 20:24
  And the lighter it is, the easier it is for people to
• 20:27
  essentially walk in and be in light.
• 20:30
  And then it's an easy job for the lighting director.
• 20:33
  Did you see Crozier? They looked as if he was giving
• 20:35
  Kiv a sort of head massage. Yeah, we should get one of
• 20:38
  those. Little spiky little.
• 20:39
  Scratches, yeah. Yeah, I feel really good.
• 20:41
  So the implication is this. This is like a swamp planet,
• 20:44
  isn't it? I know it's the sea, but that's
• 20:46
  the idea. Is it?
• 20:47
  Is it supposed to be a swamp planet?
• 20:48
  This all feels very Flash Gordon to me.
• 20:51
  Do you Do you know what makes it Doctor Who?
• 20:53
  Is that we always land on Planet Beta or Planet Miner.
• 20:57
  We we never get to the Alpha or to the Major.
• 21:00
  Well, the Alpha's too expensive, because they're.
• 21:02
  Metropolis. They're all too good looking and
• 21:04
  they're all too expensive, so it's always The Cave and the
• 21:06
  quarry. The beta's the miners say now.
• 21:10
  It looks gorgeous on the outside of this planet.
• 21:13
  Yeah. It does, but that's a great
• 21:15
  point though. It's like in case of Andrew
• 21:17
  Zani, we spend a lot of time on Andrew Zani miner don't.
• 21:20
  We just know if it'd be another sci-fi, you would you would
• 21:22
  never be on the miners. And if it was?
• 21:24
  Star Wars. It would definitely be major.
• 21:26
  Yeah, but Star Wars is all about being major.
• 21:28
  This is, you know, bedfellows with Blake 7 and space police or
• 21:32
  space cops or whatever. It's Star cops.
• 21:35
  That's. I watched two episodes of that.
• 21:36
  That's two hours of my life I'm never getting.
• 21:38
  When did you watch that? Was that for Strangers in Space?
• 21:41
  No, I watched it for Brit, but no, I watched it when it came on
• 21:43
  Brit box years ago and strange in.
• 21:45
  Space Easy. Strange in space for like, well,
• 21:48
  do you watch? It just for yourself.
• 21:50
  I watched it just for myself. Is that the last time you
• 21:53
  watched something just for yourself?
• 21:54
  Pretty much, yeah. No.
• 21:56
  What? I watched.
• 21:57
  No, no. The last thing I watched just
• 22:00
  for myself. I'm trying to think now.
• 22:02
  We'll talk about everything eventually on something.
• 22:05
  I know I've been watching Lost. I've been re watching Lost, but
• 22:08
  I've now got. Series.
• 22:10
  And I've now got to ever. Could get into lost.
• 22:12
  I've just got to the point where I gave up, which was about
• 22:15
  halfway through season three, so I'm determined to finish it off,
• 22:19
  but I have been watching Lost for a year now as.
• 22:21
  A loose Dominic. Dominic.
• 22:23
  What's his face? From Lord of the Rings.
• 22:26
  Oh, sorry. Sorry as a kid. the Hatch series
• 22:30
  Series two. Oh my gosh, that idea.
• 22:32
  That. That's why.
• 22:33
  That's why you're a Muffet fan, isn't it?
• 22:35
  Because. It probably.
• 22:36
  Is No Answers stories going on forever?
• 22:39
  Yeah, adding new elements now. With.
• 22:42
  Joe, you don't understand and. I never will live alive.
• 22:48
  Now we're missing the probably the most controversial scene in
• 22:50
  the episode, apart from Perry's death.
• 22:52
  Right, But every time Doctor Who or just anything gets a bit
• 22:55
  complex, Joe. So he's like, why can't we just
• 22:58
  land on a planet, walk out, explore, defeat the village of
• 23:02
  Walker? Excuse me, I've already said
• 23:04
  that I love the trial of a Time Lord, which is very complex, so.
• 23:09
  Yeah, but would you love it if Tara the Vervoid wasn't in it?
• 23:12
  Not as much. No Terra devoir voice is one of
• 23:15
  the most complex Doctor Who plots you're ever going to have.
• 23:18
  Everyone's up to something in that.
• 23:22
  I wish I could get rid of my. Wish.
• 23:24
  I don't like complicated things, and I do.
• 23:26
  I just don't like Stephen Moffitt.
• 23:30
  Sorry, Dylan was right there. We are missing the key scene
• 23:33
  where the doctors. Talk about that by telling me
• 23:36
  the elf and spies and where to fight them.
• 23:38
  He suddenly goes a bit light from the ghost light.
• 23:43
  This without any relapse. This is too far you and like
• 23:46
  it's a. It's a great scene for like just
• 23:48
  shock value, but. There's there's something about
• 23:52
  his eyes in it where he you're like, I'm not looking at the
• 23:55
  Doctor, which I think is quite interesting.
• 23:57
  It's not the eyes that Colin plays the role of the Doctor
• 24:01
  with. They actually cut a bit because
• 24:03
  there's an extended version of this scene on the DVD where he
• 24:06
  stands up behind her and says the tie's coming for you and I'm
• 24:11
  very pleased. And then and then he pisses all
• 24:14
  over her. Though it's half the trouble
• 24:18
  with it, though, is Nicola Bryant's so good?
• 24:20
  Yeah, she's. Still, what you say though about
• 24:22
  the yeah, about Colin, you're right.
• 24:24
  Like, no, you wouldn't sort of believe it that much from Nova
• 24:28
  Dr. I mean, even when Tom Baker is doing it to Lila in The
• 24:31
  Invasion of Time. Oh no, I hate that as well.
• 24:33
  I can't watch The Invasion of time.
• 24:35
  There's one of the few doctors that are unwatchable for me.
• 24:38
  So Tom Baker, you know he fucking hated Layla.
• 24:41
  And I still don't buy that easy, like, actually evil.
• 24:46
  Where is that? I buy that he's actually evil,
• 24:48
  and the man who never would springs to mind.
• 24:54
  The only thing about this is it's effectively because we keep
• 24:56
  cutting back to Colin in in the trial room when that's our
• 24:59
  lovely, cuddly Colin that we like this season.
• 25:02
  It's it's like forcing him to watch The Twin Dilemma and go,
• 25:05
  what were you thinking back in the day?
• 25:07
  You know, like what was going on.
• 25:11
  Does anybody know whether they recorded all the trial things
• 25:13
  together or whether they literally swung the camera over
• 25:16
  to the other side of the room? It said on the info text.
• 25:18
  I did a lot of research for this one, didn't I?
• 25:20
  It said on the info text that all the trial scenes were done
• 25:23
  for Mindwalp in a single day. Right.
• 25:25
  OK. That's interesting.
• 25:26
  That's a lot of stuff to cover. Do you know what's appalling is
• 25:29
  this is the last time Perry sees the Doctor in this story and
• 25:35
  she's just, she's just said to him, I can barely look at who
• 25:39
  you are now. I used to think that you cared
• 25:41
  about justice, truth. So she goes off to her death and
• 25:45
  that's the last time she sees the Doctor.
• 25:47
  Now that's pretty startling it. Is.
• 25:50
  I've never made that connection, to be honest.
• 25:51
  You watch in episode three and four.
• 25:53
  They don't meet again. Oh.
• 25:55
  That's. Very sad.
• 25:56
  Tries to find her, but fails. It's just finished.
• 25:59
  We've had another Colin Baker face cliffhanger A.
• 26:02
  Really good one. Strobe light.
• 26:03
  It's great. Does Colin meet up with Old
• 26:09
  Perry at any point in Big Finish?
• 26:11
  That is a great. Question I suppose there's a bit
• 26:13
  of it in piss gone, but it's not, it's.
• 26:15
  Yes, there is a trilogy of adventures.
• 26:19
  There's old. There's old Nyssa there as well.
• 26:22
  Is there any companion he doesn't meet?
• 26:24
  Old. Well, is there any companion
• 26:27
  that anyone doesn't meet? I've just seen, Vicki announced
• 26:30
  with Steven Noonan. Yeah, and and the most recent
• 26:32
  Doctor Sir had, it's actually. It's a.
• 26:35
  Great, we. Had we had Adric as well?
• 26:37
  It's a great audio. It's another one written by the
• 26:40
  Fountain and it's got, I don't know if you can listen to it,
• 26:43
  but basically it's got a cliffhanger at the end of
• 26:45
  episode 2 where he's met out with this older Perry and it's
• 26:47
  going to take her away from where she is in the future.
• 26:49
  And it turns out she's still got kids brain inside and she
• 26:55
  suddenly goes evil at the end of episode 2.
• 26:57
  And it's great. That would have been nice to
• 26:59
  listen to if you hadn't written it.
• 27:01
  Sorry about that. Sorry, I'm so sorry.
• 27:05
  Can I ask you both questions before we out Episode 2?
• 27:07
  Go on then. I'm not going to ask you now.
• 27:10
  Oh no. Go on please.
• 27:13
  The question is, this is obviously you said there were a
• 27:16
  lot of things in there that you didn't like because of it's
• 27:19
  quite controversial and you know it's taking risks.
• 27:22
  Would you rather the show was controversial and taking risks
• 27:25
  with lots of talking points, or would you rather sit there and
• 27:28
  watch another archetype or Doctor Who's story like the
• 27:31
  mysterious Planet? I know controversial all the
• 27:34
  time. This is, I think This is why I
• 27:36
  don't know how I feel about it because it does.
• 27:39
  It does make you just it splits yourself down down to it's got.
• 27:44
  So what's good about it is that it's fresh and scary and
• 27:49
  controversial, gorgeous. What's bad about it is that it's
• 27:52
  a bit of a mess and a bit too far and a bit of it which, you
• 27:55
  know, you just can't have one without the other quite a lot of
• 27:57
  time. I think the series needs to earn
• 28:01
  those sorts of wild steps and I don't know whether this was the
• 28:04
  right place to do it. I think the fear had been so
• 28:07
  controversial as it was, especially with it, like if
• 28:09
  Colin had been quite nice from the start and then this
• 28:12
  happened. I think it's sort of a brave
• 28:14
  step, but I think that the series often chooses to do it in
• 28:18
  the wrong places. Like the first time they cast an
• 28:21
  older actor in the part in new Doctor Who to suddenly make him
• 28:25
  an asshole for the first sort of four or five episodes.
• 28:27
  It's just like a a complete misfire.
• 28:30
  Had, you know, had Matt Smith turned into that person or
• 28:34
  something like that, that might have been quite interesting.
• 28:36
  What is interesting though Matt Smith is, is an asshole.
• 28:40
  Like oh completely. Stephen Moffat said this himself
• 28:43
  at the musical celebration. Thing is that you can give the
• 28:46
  11 talk to anything to say and any bad deeds to do and you just
• 28:51
  it gives you the like puffy dog eyes and you think he's fine and
• 28:54
  so do all his companions but he is actually folks.
• 28:57
  Need I'll remind anyone about his continually appalling axe in
• 29:01
  A Christmas Carol? But because he's funny and
• 29:04
  charming, he gets away with all of it.
• 29:06
  He's an appalling character, the 11th Doctor.
• 29:08
  The man who never would the. Man who frequently does, but
• 29:14
  just happens to be good looking with it.
• 29:18
  I'm not sure he's that good looking, actually.
• 29:20
  Well look fellas, Episode 2, This is proving to be an
• 29:24
  interesting one to talk about. Shall we dip into episode?
• 29:27
  Three ready. Let's dip.
• 29:32
  I'll cut it there. I'll cut it there.
• 29:34
  Shut up.