Latest / Leading By Example: Executives Making An Impact / Carly Zakin and Danielle Weisberg - Co-founders and Co-CEOs of The Skimm

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Carly Zakin and Danielle Weisberg - Co-founders and Co-CEOs of The Skimm · Leading By Example: Executives Making An Impact

0:08
Speaker 1: It was such a hard moment to have a disappointing
0:11
Speaker 1: work day where you just kind of want to cry
0:13
Speaker 1: and tell your friend or whomever, and then also have
0:16
Speaker 1: to go out and then be in front of the
0:17
Speaker 1: team and be like everything's fine, lunch is here, and
0:21
Speaker 1: not let them know. And I think those moments are
0:25
Speaker 1: the ones that make you strong. They're the ones where
0:29
Speaker 1: you learn to have a game phase. They're the ones
0:31
Speaker 1: where you learn what's a big problem versus a solvable problem,
0:35
Speaker 1: and also learn what kind of partners you want around
0:37
Speaker 1: the table with you.
0:39
Speaker 2: The greatest gift that we had in this was the mistakes,
0:44
Speaker 2: the failures, the learnings, and above all, the experience of
0:48
Speaker 2: getting to build something that has meant something not only
0:52
Speaker 2: to us and our team, but millions and millions of women.
0:55
Speaker 2: And all of the things we did wrong was part
0:57
Speaker 2: of the process.
1:00
Speaker 3: That's Carli Zeken and Danielle Weisberg, co founders of The Skim,
1:05
Speaker 3: reflecting on one of the hardest, most defining moments.
1:08
Speaker 4: Of their journey.
1:10
Speaker 3: You probably know The Skim as a go to source
1:12
Speaker 3: for smart, digestible news, but behind the brand is a
1:16
Speaker 3: story of two friends who met in an NBC newsroom,
1:20
Speaker 3: took out credit cards to fund their vision, and built
1:23
Speaker 3: a media company that now reaches millions of women. On
1:26
Speaker 3: this episode of Leading by Example, we go deep on
1:29
Speaker 3: how they got there, the near breakdowns, the breakthroughs, and
1:33
Speaker 3: the unapologetically honest leadership style they've honed along the way.
1:38
Speaker 3: We also talk about their recent acquisition by Ziff Davis,
1:41
Speaker 3: the weight of caregiving, and why building something that lasts
1:45
Speaker 3: means doing the hard stuff and doing it with heart.
1:49
Speaker 3: I'm furnished Taravi and this is leading by Example executives
1:53
Speaker 3: making an impact. Carl ze Aken Danielle Weisberg, co founders
2:01
Speaker 3: of this skim, Welcome to Leading by Example. It's such
2:04
Speaker 3: a pleasure to be with you again.
2:07
Speaker 1: It's so good to see you. It's been a while.
2:09
Speaker 1: Thank you for having us partners. We're so excited to
2:11
Speaker 1: be here. Thank you for having us, and always good
2:14
Speaker 1: to see you.
2:15
Speaker 3: I'm so honored to be one of the I'm going
2:18
Speaker 3: to say one of the maybe the first journalists to
2:20
Speaker 3: get a deep conversation with you post the news of
2:24
Speaker 3: your partnership with Ziff Davis. I know that we can't
2:28
Speaker 3: talk about the details of this partnership, but everybody's really excited.
2:32
Speaker 3: And I guess you know, having known both of you
2:34
Speaker 3: for well since the beginning of the SKIM, I have
2:37
Speaker 3: to ask you now twelve years later, was this the
2:40
Speaker 3: north star? Was this always on your vision board? Let's
2:44
Speaker 3: just say to sort of bring the Skim to this
2:47
Speaker 3: point where you're partnering and potentially scaling even.
2:50
Speaker 2: More, so I'll take this one. It's Danielle. I think
2:54
Speaker 2: there are so many things in that. First of all,
2:56
Speaker 2: we're so excited to be part of the Ziff Davis
2:59
Speaker 2: Fai family, really excited for the Skin to be able
3:04
Speaker 2: to partner and grow with an amazing partner behind us.
3:10
Speaker 1: I think, being.
3:11
Speaker 2: An entrepreneur and a founder, there are two things that
3:15
Speaker 2: when we think about the decision to have some sort
3:19
Speaker 2: of exit outcome. The first is, ever, since we started,
3:25
Speaker 2: we did not let ourselves quit, and there were definite
3:30
Speaker 2: periods we came pretty close. So I think when you
3:36
Speaker 2: talk about was this the path from the beginning, the
3:39
Speaker 2: path from the beginning was to start a brand and
3:44
Speaker 2: a company that would be huge and would go on
3:49
Speaker 2: the Other thing I would say is that Carly and
3:52
Speaker 2: I were really thoughtful about setting the company up for
3:55
Speaker 2: optionality at different points, and the best way to do
3:59
Speaker 2: that in all of these different crazy markets that we've
4:03
Speaker 2: navigated was staying true to our audience, keeping the connection
4:10
Speaker 2: with that, being very mindful about good business practices, about
4:15
Speaker 2: thinking through what is your run we look like, what
4:19
Speaker 2: is your stance on profitability? All of these things that
4:23
Speaker 2: sound very obvious now, but when we started the company
4:26
Speaker 2: in this adventure Craze and Heyday, that was not necessarily
4:32
Speaker 2: the key metrics that were being discussed. And finally having
4:37
Speaker 2: a big vision with that optionality, so we had certainly
4:41
Speaker 2: thought about places that would be great strategic partners, and
4:45
Speaker 2: for us, the key to all of it was having
4:48
Speaker 2: a great business that was backed by and engaged audience.
4:53
Speaker 3: I want to get into more of your audience, primarily
4:56
Speaker 3: gen Z and millennial women, and I definitely want to
4:58
Speaker 3: revisit moments when you thought about quitting, because that's all
5:02
Speaker 3: of us and what made you endure. But Carly, do
5:05
Speaker 3: you want to add anything to Danielle's overview there? I
5:08
Speaker 3: think another question I had as she was speaking was
5:11
Speaker 3: just any lessons learned along the way of this particular
5:15
Speaker 3: leg of the journey the acquisition, things you wish you
5:18
Speaker 3: had known or advice for other founders.
5:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think Danielle kind of captured it.
5:22
Speaker 1: But being acquired by the Everyday Health Group, which is
5:25
Speaker 1: under the ZIF Davis umbrella, is it a real honor.
5:27
Speaker 1: I think we share a commitment to factual information, to
5:31
Speaker 1: kind of a mode of trust with audiences. And I
5:35
Speaker 1: think from really day one, Danielle and I have been
5:38
Speaker 1: fortunate to have had lots of options over the years,
5:41
Speaker 1: and I think when we have always written out what's
5:44
Speaker 1: most important to us, it has always been does our
5:47
Speaker 1: brand continue to grow, does our commitment to our audience
5:52
Speaker 1: continue to grow? And what especially in this moment and
5:56
Speaker 1: being now part of Everyday Health Group, their commitment to
6:00
Speaker 1: really the things that are on our audience's mind. It
6:03
Speaker 1: is something that just we couldn't ask for about our partner,
6:07
Speaker 1: and so we're really really excited about it. Our team
6:09
Speaker 1: is really excited about it and allows us to do
6:12
Speaker 1: more for our audience, which has always been our north star.
6:15
Speaker 3: It's particularly special when you think about how you both
6:17
Speaker 3: started as colleagues at NBC, you know, the breaking news,
6:23
Speaker 3: all of that sort of and then realizing there's this
6:27
Speaker 3: underserved market of women particularly at the time millennials and
6:31
Speaker 3: now gen Z and the two of you said, hey,
6:33
Speaker 3: let's start a company. Let's start a content platform, and
6:36
Speaker 3: you chose to start with email newsletter, which still today
6:40
Speaker 3: is where a lot of media companies choose to start.
6:43
Speaker 3: Can you tell us a little bit about the strategy
6:45
Speaker 3: behind that? And that was in twenty twelve and it
6:47
Speaker 3: has endured. You know that particular lane is valuable and
6:52
Speaker 3: from that is like a sort of a flywheel we
6:54
Speaker 3: can get into sort of all the other offerings that
6:56
Speaker 3: this scheme has. But that would you say was a
6:59
Speaker 3: good disc decision that going back, you wouldn't have maybe
7:02
Speaker 3: done a podcast to start or a website to start.
7:06
Speaker 2: I think it was the best decision we ever made,
7:08
Speaker 2: And I would love to say we looked at all
7:12
Speaker 2: of those things and we decided email was the best. Honestly,
7:15
Speaker 2: we picked email because it was the easiest tool that
7:18
Speaker 2: we could stand up without designers, without techlift, and we
7:24
Speaker 2: could communicate directly to an audience. But as we started
7:29
Speaker 2: to grow, we started to think about email much more strategically.
7:34
Speaker 2: And I think that's what brands and people creators have
7:38
Speaker 2: come to realize, because in twenty twelve, It was not popular.
7:42
Speaker 2: It took a long long time. I would say, honestly,
7:45
Speaker 2: probably in the past eighteen months did email become cool.
7:49
Speaker 2: What we saw was a direct way to communicate with
7:52
Speaker 2: your audience and know who they are, and that email
7:56
Speaker 2: is still something that you use in your day to
7:58
Speaker 2: day I use lte lots of other messaging things, but
8:01
Speaker 2: email is still a method of communication that you use,
8:07
Speaker 2: especially when you enter the workforce, which was when we
8:10
Speaker 2: marked our audience entering into the skim funnel, because it
8:15
Speaker 2: is something that you look for people information that you
8:20
Speaker 2: actually trust and want to open. So we felt then
8:24
Speaker 2: like we feel now that if you are creating something
8:27
Speaker 2: based off of engagement, based off of really wanting to
8:31
Speaker 2: create a community, and one at scale in a very
8:35
Speaker 2: cost effective way, email I still think is king.
8:39
Speaker 3: And specifically the way that you wrote the emails I
8:43
Speaker 3: remember and maybe that changed over the years, but I'm
8:46
Speaker 3: curious for you to share this, you know, like no
8:48
Speaker 3: exclamation points.
8:50
Speaker 1: I really really appreciate that you remember that. I know, right,
8:54
Speaker 1: our team, who I hope listens to this is going
8:57
Speaker 1: to laugh real hard because that was the hill I
8:59
Speaker 1: was going to die on. I was like, we will
9:01
Speaker 1: not do an exclamation point. I felt very passionate about that.
9:04
Speaker 1: But no, I think what you're referencing is really a
9:07
Speaker 1: conversational tone.
9:08
Speaker 4: The voice.
9:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, a voice, and how we talk to our friends
9:12
Speaker 1: and how we emailed our friends. And I think over
9:16
Speaker 1: the years, we've gotten asked in so many different environments,
9:20
Speaker 1: in different situations of like how do you capture talking
9:24
Speaker 1: to this audience? And we're like, we are authentic to
9:27
Speaker 1: this audience, Like we're not trying to put on a
9:30
Speaker 1: voice to be like, hey, we're millennials too. It's just
9:33
Speaker 1: honestly like the voice of how we speak to one another.
9:37
Speaker 1: And I think in the earliest days that it meant grammar,
9:42
Speaker 1: like we technically sometimes would write things that weren't grammatically correct,
9:46
Speaker 1: but we're conversationally correct. And I remember people used to
9:49
Speaker 1: like write in and be like, do you want me
9:51
Speaker 1: to be your grammarian, and house we were like, no,
9:54
Speaker 1: we actually really know how to have good grammar, but
9:56
Speaker 1: we were really trying to capture what an email from
9:59
Speaker 1: a friend sounded like. And you know, over time, the
10:03
Speaker 1: voice grew up, our audience grew up, but especially in
10:07
Speaker 1: those early days, it really was meant to sound like,
10:10
Speaker 1: you just got an email from like your college roommate,
10:13
Speaker 1: And we had so many people actually write in and
10:15
Speaker 1: be like, does my college roommate secretly work for you?
10:19
Speaker 1: The sounds just like her.
10:21
Speaker 3: And you're covering topics like geopolitics and race relations as
10:26
Speaker 3: well as pop culture. So to do that consistently across
10:31
Speaker 3: all these different storylines and story themes is no small feet.
10:35
Speaker 3: You really knew your audience, and I don't think it's
10:37
Speaker 3: just that, oh well, we were one with the audience,
10:40
Speaker 3: so we tested ourselves.
10:41
Speaker 4: You did a lot of research.
10:42
Speaker 3: What did you learn about your audience at the time,
10:45
Speaker 3: and how has it evolved?
10:46
Speaker 4: How do you keep up with your audience?
10:48
Speaker 2: Well, it helps to be part of your audience, which
10:52
Speaker 2: you know is the honest truth. We started it for
10:54
Speaker 2: our friends and our family, and so it's always been
10:57
Speaker 2: an organic experience. Now, of course we had to scale
10:59
Speaker 2: that and that's a different part of the conversation. But
11:03
Speaker 2: for us, it was really about thinking through the idea
11:08
Speaker 2: that in an age of personalization, in an age of
11:14
Speaker 2: so much information overload, but lack of trust, and also
11:20
Speaker 2: lack of a focus on or maybe not a focus,
11:23
Speaker 2: but a true understanding of what are the real everyday
11:27
Speaker 2: pressures on women's mind. We always use that as our
11:31
Speaker 2: north star. So we wanted to make sure that anyone
11:35
Speaker 2: in our audience could feel equipped to participate or start
11:40
Speaker 2: a conversation and learn from viewpoints, but to never have
11:44
Speaker 2: like a deer in the headlights moment. And that is
11:46
Speaker 2: how we started and it grew from there as our
11:50
Speaker 2: lives got more complicated with growing up, parents, partners, kids,
11:58
Speaker 2: the decisions around having or being part of all of
12:02
Speaker 2: those things. What goes along with that financially, emotionally, and
12:08
Speaker 2: at the root of all of it too is we
12:10
Speaker 2: went through a pandemic health, like actual health became so
12:15
Speaker 2: much a part of the foundation. If you don't have that,
12:19
Speaker 2: you're not going to have anything. And to have that,
12:22
Speaker 2: what do you need to think about financially And that
12:25
Speaker 2: took on a lot of different delivery methods, cross platforms,
12:31
Speaker 2: but the idea that as you grow up, you are
12:35
Speaker 2: having to think about these things, whether you like it
12:37
Speaker 2: or not. Just like you need to know about what's
12:39
Speaker 2: going on in the world, you need to know about
12:41
Speaker 2: what's going on in your world. Honestly, I hate thinking
12:43
Speaker 2: about the intricacies of my finance, but I need to
12:46
Speaker 2: do it, And a lot of people felt that way
12:48
Speaker 2: about knowing what's going on in the news that day.
12:51
Speaker 2: So we wanted to take the stigma away that these
12:55
Speaker 2: are things that are really hard to get into. Make
12:58
Speaker 2: it casual, make it part if someone's routine, Make it
13:01
Speaker 2: community based. And that's really how we thought about scaling
13:05
Speaker 2: into the different franchises that we have today.
13:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, what I'm hearing is you didn't underestimate your female audience,
13:12
Speaker 3: and you met her where she was at. And the
13:16
Speaker 3: community piece is also really really important, whether it's trying
13:19
Speaker 3: to learn about something that is not in your wheelhouse
13:22
Speaker 3: but is important, or getting to the gym. Hard things
13:26
Speaker 3: you know, the more the merrier, and you definitely provided
13:29
Speaker 3: that community. When we come back, Carley and Danielle open
13:34
Speaker 3: up about leading through COVID and how showing emotion at
13:37
Speaker 3: work became a turning point. They also share the story
13:40
Speaker 3: behind their viral hashtag show us Your Leave campaign, what
13:44
Speaker 3: it revealed about working motherhood in America, and why they
13:47
Speaker 3: believe vulnerability can be a strategic advantage.
13:51
Speaker 1: I remember at first being like, oh my god, I
13:53
Speaker 1: can't believe I just started to basically cry in front
13:55
Speaker 1: of our team, and then I think that that vulnerability
14:00
Speaker 1: came a strength in leadership that I don't think either
14:02
Speaker 1: of us ever would have embraced before.
14:06
Speaker 4: Stay with us. Let's talk about growing pains though twelve years.
14:18
Speaker 3: You don't go twelve thirteen years without some, as you said,
14:22
Speaker 3: moments where you wanted to quit. So what's one that
14:26
Speaker 3: really stands out and that had really good resolve in
14:29
Speaker 3: the end.
14:30
Speaker 1: I think when I look back, how I would have
14:34
Speaker 1: described us individually when we started the SKIM, I would
14:37
Speaker 1: have said we're really focused people and we're really resilient,
14:40
Speaker 1: and I would have been completely wrong because we weren't
14:43
Speaker 1: those things twelve and a half years ago. I think
14:45
Speaker 1: we learned those things, those muscles over this journey. I
14:50
Speaker 1: remember our first lead investors was Homebrew Ventures and they
14:53
Speaker 1: were product people by nature, and they taught us focus
14:57
Speaker 1: and we're like no, we're very focused, Like no, this
14:59
Speaker 1: is what it was and to be like product focused
15:01
Speaker 1: and that completely changed how we thought about what to
15:05
Speaker 1: say yes too. I just say no to how to
15:08
Speaker 1: scale and grow. And I think on the resilient part,
15:11
Speaker 1: we would have considered ourselves like very strong individuals who
15:15
Speaker 1: like had had some life experience. But when I look back, boy,
15:17
Speaker 1: we had no idea what was in store for us
15:19
Speaker 1: personally or professionally. And I think that muscle, it is
15:24
Speaker 1: a muscle, and we literally built it over time. And
15:27
Speaker 1: so when you look back, we've been through let's just
15:30
Speaker 1: call it three recessions, whether they've been formally acknowledged as
15:34
Speaker 1: recessions or not. A pandemic personal highs and lows. And
15:39
Speaker 1: there's two moments I'll just like never forget. And they
15:42
Speaker 1: seemed like blips, but at the moment, like they felt
15:44
Speaker 1: so big. It was one of our earliest rounds of funding.
15:48
Speaker 1: We're like, we got this, and it was an investor
15:51
Speaker 1: that we thought had committed verbally, but I don't think
15:53
Speaker 1: we like really understood what that meant. And we were
15:56
Speaker 1: still learning how to fundraise. And we had the small
15:59
Speaker 1: office and our team sitting outside and we had this
16:01
Speaker 1: like little kitchen and that's the only place that we
16:03
Speaker 1: could take a private call. And so we went into
16:06
Speaker 1: this little kitchen and it happened to be lunchtime. We
16:09
Speaker 1: cleared everybody out and we had this call at the
16:10
Speaker 1: investor and the investor was like, we're not going to
16:13
Speaker 1: participate in this round. And I remember it was like
16:17
Speaker 1: a movie, like I like physically like slid down the
16:19
Speaker 1: refrigerator door to the floor, and we had our team
16:23
Speaker 1: outside who were all trying to come in to get
16:25
Speaker 1: their lunch from the fridge. We were like, not now,
16:28
Speaker 1: not now. And I just remember Danielle and I sitting
16:33
Speaker 1: on the floor with our laptops in this kitchen staring
16:36
Speaker 1: at each other and being like, what are we going
16:39
Speaker 1: to do? And we closed the round again. This was
16:42
Speaker 1: such a blip in the story of the skim and
16:45
Speaker 1: it wasn't even for a lot of money when you
16:47
Speaker 1: look at what we raised, but that felt like a
16:49
Speaker 1: punch in the gut where I was like, how do
16:52
Speaker 1: we keep doing this? And it was such a hard
16:55
Speaker 1: moment to like have a disappointing work day where you
16:58
Speaker 1: just kind of want to cry, I tell your friend
17:01
Speaker 1: or whomever, and then also have to go out of
17:03
Speaker 1: the kitchen and then be in front of the team
17:06
Speaker 1: and be like everything's fine, lunch is here, and not
17:08
Speaker 1: let them know. And I think those moments are the
17:12
Speaker 1: ones that make you strong. They're the ones where you
17:16
Speaker 1: learn to have a game face. They're the ones where
17:18
Speaker 1: you learn what's a big problem versus a solvable problem
17:22
Speaker 1: which we solved and it was fine. And also learn
17:24
Speaker 1: what kind of partners you want around the table with you.
17:28
Speaker 4: Thank you for taking us back to that moment.
17:30
Speaker 3: I think rejection is part of so many people's realities,
17:33
Speaker 3: whether you're a founder or whatever role you have in
17:36
Speaker 3: your career. Did that rejection fuel your drive to go
17:41
Speaker 3: and close that round? Did you actually exceed what you
17:44
Speaker 3: thought you would get because now you had this new
17:47
Speaker 3: found gumption.
17:48
Speaker 1: Yes, And actually it fueled us in a surprising way
17:53
Speaker 1: because we went to a mutual friend of this investor
17:57
Speaker 1: and we were like, can you believe they did this
17:59
Speaker 1: to us? And that mutual friend called the investor and
18:03
Speaker 1: was like, what's up? And they had their own reasons
18:06
Speaker 1: why they didn't want to invest, but they said that
18:08
Speaker 1: we had cried and we did not cry. I forgot
18:12
Speaker 1: about that. I didn't know where you were going with this.
18:14
Speaker 1: We did not cry. I cried about it when I
18:17
Speaker 1: got off the phone, but not to the person on
18:19
Speaker 1: the phone. And same thing with Danielle, and that pissed
18:23
Speaker 1: us off so much that we were like a few
18:27
Speaker 1: like we didn't cry, Like there's no crying, and basic, yeah,
18:30
Speaker 1: there is but to be clear, like we were businesswomen,
18:33
Speaker 1: we held our own and like you know, it would
18:35
Speaker 1: have been fine if we did, but we didn't, and
18:36
Speaker 1: that really pissed us off. And that was like the
18:39
Speaker 1: fuel that we were like, we will show you and
18:42
Speaker 1: you were going to regret this, and they did.
18:45
Speaker 3: It speaks to such a huge problem right of women,
18:49
Speaker 3: especially women who are in rolls of high ambition founding companies,
18:54
Speaker 3: that you get sort of characterized, you get misunderstood, you
18:59
Speaker 3: get discriminated against. How often was that part of your
19:03
Speaker 3: journey all the time?
19:05
Speaker 4: Time? Still? Yeah, still even now when you have climbed
19:09
Speaker 4: the hill.
19:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, all the time, even where we are today, all
19:13
Speaker 1: the time.
19:13
Speaker 2: And I think part of it is I can spot it,
19:16
Speaker 2: whereas maybe five years ago, ten years ago, I'd be like, oh,
19:20
Speaker 2: that's just because I'm young, or that's because I haven't
19:23
Speaker 2: gotten to this part of my business yet.
19:25
Speaker 1: But I think now, you know, we're still young, but like.
19:29
Speaker 2: We've been doing this a long time, those things are
19:32
Speaker 2: not the reason why. And I also think because we
19:35
Speaker 2: are very lucky to have grown up in this kind
19:39
Speaker 2: of entrepreneur founder community with also other women who have
19:44
Speaker 2: gone through it, and so there are themes, but I
19:47
Speaker 2: also think what I dislike about it is it's real.
19:52
Speaker 2: It is part of this, and it's also something that
19:57
Speaker 2: I would say, you got to pick your battles and
19:59
Speaker 2: figure out how much you're going to let it get
20:02
Speaker 2: to you.
20:03
Speaker 1: And I do think just to add like one of
20:05
Speaker 1: the positives of leadership in COVID as, I think it
20:09
Speaker 1: forced I don't mean to really use masks in a
20:12
Speaker 1: flippant way in this case, but it forced a leadership
20:15
Speaker 1: mass to come down for everybody, and I think that
20:18
Speaker 1: was actually a very positive thing. Where the first time
20:22
Speaker 1: actually that I think either of us ever got emotional
20:25
Speaker 1: in front of our team was during COVID Yeah, and
20:29
Speaker 1: I remember at first being like, oh my god, I
20:31
Speaker 1: can't believe I just started just basically cried in front
20:33
Speaker 1: of our team. And then I think that that vulnerability
20:37
Speaker 1: became a strength in leadership that I don't think either
20:40
Speaker 1: of us ever would have embraced before. And we saw
20:42
Speaker 1: that in our male peers and mentors and our female
20:45
Speaker 1: peers and mentors, and so I want to clarify that
20:48
Speaker 1: having vulnerability or emotion is not the thing that annoys us.
20:54
Speaker 1: I think that can be a strength, and I think
20:56
Speaker 1: that can be very honest, and we've had those moments.
20:59
Speaker 1: I think it is the BS around two younger female.
21:05
Speaker 4: Founders a judgment.
21:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think we would have had very different
21:09
Speaker 1: experiences had we been solo founders, And we also have
21:11
Speaker 1: very unique experiences because there were two of us.
21:14
Speaker 3: You brought up COVID, and I think what really rose
21:16
Speaker 3: to the surface will it was unmasked during COVID, was
21:19
Speaker 3: how much caregiving was a huge part of everyone's lives,
21:23
Speaker 3: whether it's because you have children, you have parents who
21:26
Speaker 3: are taking care of you have your own mental health
21:28
Speaker 3: that you're caring And this actually became a huge platform
21:31
Speaker 3: for the two of you as leaders, and I would
21:34
Speaker 3: love for you to share your insights as well as
21:36
Speaker 3: how you've taken action since COVID to provide more of
21:40
Speaker 3: an inclusive environment and a supportive environment for your caregivers
21:43
Speaker 3: at work and not just at the SKIM but at
21:45
Speaker 3: many companies.
21:47
Speaker 1: So we started something very organically called show Us Your Leave.
21:51
Speaker 1: This was under the Biden administration. Congress did not pass
21:54
Speaker 1: family leave in the way that everyone had hoped for
21:57
Speaker 1: caregivers basically, and Danielle and I were like literally texting
22:01
Speaker 1: about it and we're texting about it when Danielle's child
22:05
Speaker 1: care ended for the day and one of her kids
22:07
Speaker 1: was having a tantrum on the floor and we were
22:09
Speaker 1: trying to work, and it was like, this is literally
22:12
Speaker 1: the problem, and we posted about it and we just
22:16
Speaker 1: made up like a hashtag. We said show us your leave,
22:19
Speaker 1: what did your leave look like? And I can't even
22:22
Speaker 1: explain to you how many messages we got and how
22:26
Speaker 1: quickly people started posting with their own versions of their
22:29
Speaker 1: stories with that hashtat I mean crazy stories like a
22:32
Speaker 1: nick you nurse who had to go back to work
22:36
Speaker 1: ten days after giving birth and her own child was
22:40
Speaker 1: in the nicku and like she had to go then
22:42
Speaker 1: take care of other children, like I mean, made no sense.
22:45
Speaker 1: We had one woman who literally sent us photos of
22:48
Speaker 1: her hooked up to the contraction monitor with the laptop
22:52
Speaker 1: on the table next to her because she had to
22:54
Speaker 1: clock in till midnight to be able to qualify for leave.
22:58
Speaker 1: You were like, I can't even believe this is our
23:00
Speaker 1: country and this is not a part is an issue.
23:02
Speaker 1: This is a failure systemically across our country. And it
23:07
Speaker 1: turned into an advocacy movement where we had over seven
23:12
Speaker 1: hundred companies for the first time publicly and transparently share
23:16
Speaker 1: what their leave policies were, and we created a template
23:19
Speaker 1: for our audience to share that data, and in many
23:23
Speaker 1: cases those policies were changed. That then evolved into show
23:27
Speaker 1: us her childcare, which was, Okay, you've had a family leave,
23:30
Speaker 1: how do you go back to work if that's what
23:32
Speaker 1: you're choosing to do, or how do you kind of function?
23:34
Speaker 1: What does childcare look like for you? We all know
23:37
Speaker 1: that the cost of that is not sustainable, and in particular,
23:41
Speaker 1: women are not getting help. And we did that at
23:44
Speaker 1: the same time very similarly to a survey that we
23:47
Speaker 1: ran called the State of Women, and that was really
23:50
Speaker 1: an economic report of how is she doing? This is
23:53
Speaker 1: like post pandemic, how are we? And you know, like
23:56
Speaker 1: we are this audience. We weren't expecting the results to
23:59
Speaker 1: be like, I'm doing great, but it was so much
24:01
Speaker 1: worse than we thought it was going to be. Eighty
24:04
Speaker 1: three percent of our audience said they identify as a
24:08
Speaker 1: chief warry officer. And that is such a mental health problem.
24:15
Speaker 1: And again part of what we're so excited about with
24:18
Speaker 1: our new partners every day health is like so much
24:21
Speaker 1: of the work that they do is actually addressing a
24:26
Speaker 1: lot of her mental health concerns with amazing partnerships that's
24:30
Speaker 1: going to allow us to serve her better. But I
24:33
Speaker 1: think these sort of advocacy moments have been a very
24:38
Speaker 1: organic evolution to our brand that have awoken our audience
24:43
Speaker 1: in a way with like not just giving them that
24:45
Speaker 1: they know what they're frustrated by, but actually giving them
24:47
Speaker 1: the tools to talk about it or in some cases
24:50
Speaker 1: actually create change. And we've since then a lot of
24:53
Speaker 1: further brand campaigns that have looked at their health in
24:56
Speaker 1: similar ways and really just about mobilizing this audience. And
25:00
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of that came to fruition
25:04
Speaker 1: because of the pandemic.
25:06
Speaker 3: So tell me about how you've chosen your brand expansions.
25:09
Speaker 3: You started out covering the news primarily, but then got
25:12
Speaker 3: into other areas.
25:13
Speaker 2: So taking myself back in time to COVID, it's actually
25:16
Speaker 2: still now a hard thing to do, but we started
25:20
Speaker 2: to really lean in again to building franchises and extending
25:27
Speaker 2: the brand based off of what we as people were
25:33
Speaker 2: worried about and were interested in, and that meant one
25:37
Speaker 2: as our commerce business exploded. That was when we started
25:41
Speaker 2: it and it was like, we're all doing it, we
25:45
Speaker 2: may as well make it like a effective fun and
25:50
Speaker 2: I guess we talk about being time well spent. And
25:53
Speaker 2: we started our skim shopping franchise during that because we
25:56
Speaker 2: were all spending money online, so let's make sure it's
25:59
Speaker 2: going to small businesses. Carly and I kicked off something
26:04
Speaker 2: around women of colors, businesses and small businesses on our
26:08
Speaker 2: Instagram and that was something that went into our skin
26:11
Speaker 2: shopping franchise and just really started thinking about this is
26:15
Speaker 2: actually how we're spending a lot of time since we're
26:17
Speaker 2: trapped at home, so how can we make it time
26:19
Speaker 2: and money well spent? And then that started going into
26:22
Speaker 2: the evolution of our skin Money franchise, which to that
26:26
Speaker 2: point we had been building out a very i would
26:30
Speaker 2: say complicated app and product experience and we had rate
26:34
Speaker 2: us money for it and we were about to launch it,
26:36
Speaker 2: and the pandemic hits and we see that we have
26:41
Speaker 2: so many questions around filing for unemployment. What should I
26:45
Speaker 2: do in a recession? And again, as a generation, we
26:48
Speaker 2: had actually gone through this when we were graduating college
26:53
Speaker 2: starting to try to move up in the workforce or
26:55
Speaker 2: get a job. And I think Because of that, we
26:58
Speaker 2: were primed to be like, this is not going to
27:01
Speaker 2: be fun. We need to figure out what we're going
27:04
Speaker 2: to do because there's a high likelihood that we're going
27:07
Speaker 2: to get laid off. And that started us on a
27:11
Speaker 2: very big business decision with our board's approval, and they
27:15
Speaker 2: really had our back here, which was to sunset the
27:19
Speaker 2: product that we've been working on to really think about
27:23
Speaker 2: we need to create community and we need to really
27:26
Speaker 2: get ahead of the questions that are going to come up.
27:31
Speaker 2: And so we started launching skim Money as a virtual
27:34
Speaker 2: events series and then it built out from there, and
27:37
Speaker 2: the idea around skim well really started around caring for ourselves.
27:44
Speaker 2: And there was so much misinformation out there and so
27:49
Speaker 2: much just fear, as we all had rightfully, so we
27:53
Speaker 2: didn't know what was going to happen. So it was
27:55
Speaker 2: less about trying to keep up with what was going
27:58
Speaker 2: on in medical news and much more about how do
28:01
Speaker 2: you actually take care of yourself because you can't control
28:03
Speaker 2: what's going on out there, so how do you create
28:07
Speaker 2: some sort of wellness practice? And that really became those
28:12
Speaker 2: eighteen months when we really started to define and move
28:17
Speaker 2: forward these three big parts of our business that have
28:21
Speaker 2: grown significantly since then.
28:23
Speaker 3: What will you be advocating for women in your audience
28:26
Speaker 3: going forward? Do you think like what has yet to
28:29
Speaker 3: be really addressed or is a new topic that you
28:33
Speaker 3: think is surfacing.
28:35
Speaker 2: Well, we've talked about caregiving, but it's really been in
28:38
Speaker 2: the context of caring for kids mostly, And when we
28:43
Speaker 2: decided to talk about caregiving, we really thought a lot
28:48
Speaker 2: about aging parents. And what I think is different than
28:54
Speaker 2: even when we started to think about the topic and
28:57
Speaker 2: the subject is all of this this is happening at
29:00
Speaker 2: the same time, and there are so many resources for
29:06
Speaker 2: how you should plan try to regulate yourself. For like
29:11
Speaker 2: the idea of parenting. It is a really flooded space,
29:15
Speaker 2: and yet there are still really big needs in that
29:18
Speaker 2: and there is a need for community, There are a
29:20
Speaker 2: need for tools, there is a need for more financial support.
29:24
Speaker 2: But then when you think about caregiving on the other end,
29:27
Speaker 2: for parents or for whatever kind of older dependence you're
29:32
Speaker 2: thinking about, there's still a stigma attached to it because
29:36
Speaker 2: to me, it's kind of like you think about retirement
29:39
Speaker 2: communities but not necessarily all of the other things, and
29:45
Speaker 2: like I'm knocking on wood, but like right now, that
29:47
Speaker 2: is not on my mind, But there are so many
29:50
Speaker 2: other parts of this that should be on my mind,
29:53
Speaker 2: including how do you think about the trade offs? There's
29:56
Speaker 2: been a meme floating around and maybe it's just like
29:59
Speaker 2: this is the type of content that I get, But
30:01
Speaker 2: it was like something about your kids being mad when
30:04
Speaker 2: you have to move in with them because you saved
30:06
Speaker 2: for their college and not your retirement. Yeah, that's a
30:09
Speaker 2: lot of people that is exactly what we're being faced
30:13
Speaker 2: with now. But what that should say is your kids
30:16
Speaker 2: being mad because you have to move in with them
30:18
Speaker 2: because you paid for your boomer parents' situation. We love
30:24
Speaker 2: our boomers, we love our parents, but that generation did
30:26
Speaker 2: not make such great financial decisions, and we are now
30:30
Speaker 2: at a place where we need to think about how
30:32
Speaker 2: do we take care of them, how do we take
30:34
Speaker 2: care of ourselves, and how do we take care of kids?
30:36
Speaker 2: And I have no clue as an individual how to
30:39
Speaker 2: do that. So how can people who are not having
30:44
Speaker 2: the luxury of being able to sit here and peace
30:48
Speaker 2: through these problems and create content and talk to experts
30:51
Speaker 2: about that? How are they thinking through it? And it's
30:54
Speaker 2: the easiest thing to bury your head in the sand
30:57
Speaker 2: about because no one wants to take that on.
31:01
Speaker 3: Well, because what are we really talking about. We're talking
31:03
Speaker 3: about the end of life too, you know, and that
31:05
Speaker 3: is such a hard thing to face. We're talking about money,
31:08
Speaker 3: which we've already discussed is super taboo. And then you're
31:11
Speaker 3: talking about millennial women, women largely at the forefront of caregiving.
31:15
Speaker 3: So we've already got a lot on our plate. We've
31:18
Speaker 3: been through three recessions. Oh, we're the ones who are
31:20
Speaker 3: supposed to shoulder all this financial and emotional stress. Yeah,
31:25
Speaker 3: it's it's a lot, and I agree with you. I
31:27
Speaker 3: think this is a huge opportunity to uplift, educate, empower
31:32
Speaker 3: women and families around this. Thank you for bringing that
31:35
Speaker 3: to our attention. All right, let's talk about the future
31:38
Speaker 3: a little bit. Your hope streams what's on your vision
31:41
Speaker 3: board right now, Danielle Carly, mostly for your audience.
31:45
Speaker 1: I think for our audience. I keep replaying that stat
31:49
Speaker 1: in my head of like the chief Warrior Officer that
31:51
Speaker 1: I referenced. I think we are spending a lot of
31:55
Speaker 1: time actually talking about with Danielle was just saying, which
31:57
Speaker 1: is we're the Sandwich generation, and the idea of like
32:02
Speaker 1: how do we help her prep How does the SKIM
32:05
Speaker 1: help her prepare for the stuff that you don't want
32:10
Speaker 1: to deal with in some cases don't even know that
32:13
Speaker 1: you're going to have to deal with. And that is
32:15
Speaker 1: everything from like do you have the password to get
32:18
Speaker 1: into your parents iPhone or any phone? Do you have
32:21
Speaker 1: the power of attorney docs filled? Have you had a
32:24
Speaker 1: tough conversation with them about choices that they want or
32:27
Speaker 1: options that they have, or their financial situation? And these
32:31
Speaker 1: aren't like pretty topics, And I think what the SKIM
32:34
Speaker 1: is always done, you know, And I look back to
32:36
Speaker 1: how we started. We started it was like the height
32:39
Speaker 1: of the Syrian Civil War, and I remember people were like,
32:43
Speaker 1: people are not going to want to read this, it's
32:44
Speaker 1: very depressing. We're like, it is very depressing and they
32:47
Speaker 1: need to And the SKIM, you know, it did take off.
32:51
Speaker 1: And it's because we made that information palpable, we made
32:55
Speaker 1: it easier to understand. And I think our goal would
32:58
Speaker 1: be to help this audience navigate this next phase of
33:02
Speaker 1: her life and her loved ones lives. And we are
33:06
Speaker 1: just really obsessed about where she is at this life
33:08
Speaker 1: stage moment, and it is how does she have the
33:12
Speaker 1: life that she wants and deal with the responsibilities that
33:15
Speaker 1: are really sitting on her shoulders and nobody is there
33:18
Speaker 1: to help her.
33:18
Speaker 4: She can do hard things, as they say, yeah, yes
33:21
Speaker 4: she can.
33:22
Speaker 3: If you were starting the skim today, would you do
33:25
Speaker 3: anything differently?
33:26
Speaker 1: Oh that's a good Oh my gosh, yes, everything really well.
33:31
Speaker 2: I mean in the fact that we had thirteen years
33:33
Speaker 2: to practice, so you know where it ends up, like,
33:37
Speaker 2: I think I would do everything differently, meaning that if
33:40
Speaker 2: I had known where.
33:41
Speaker 1: We were going, I would have been a lot less
33:42
Speaker 1: stressed out.
33:44
Speaker 2: But I think in some ways, no, I wouldn't do
33:46
Speaker 2: anything differently because the greatest gift that we had in
33:49
Speaker 2: this was the mistakes, the failures, the learnings, and above all,
33:54
Speaker 2: the experience of getting to build something that has meant
34:00
Speaker 2: something not only to us and our team, but millions
34:02
Speaker 2: and millions of women. And all of the things we
34:04
Speaker 2: did wrong was part of the process.
34:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, the worry part that seems to be a theme here,
34:10
Speaker 3: you know, facing it, trying to avoid it. And lastly,
34:13
Speaker 3: we ask this of all of our guests, what does
34:16
Speaker 3: leading by example mean to you?
34:19
Speaker 2: Don't ask your team to do something that you wouldn't
34:21
Speaker 2: do or that you haven't done yourself. It's I think
34:25
Speaker 2: a very founder position. Like we've literally built desks, taken
34:30
Speaker 2: off the trash, we have made social assets, we have
34:35
Speaker 2: done mass email blasts flying, yeah, all of it. We've
34:40
Speaker 2: gone up to random people on the street and said,
34:43
Speaker 2: do you know what the skim is?
34:44
Speaker 1: Can I tell you about it? Which sounds so creepy.
34:47
Speaker 2: Now, So when you think about these things that you
34:50
Speaker 2: would ask someone to do, I think you're more able
34:53
Speaker 2: to paint a picture of why, not that you should
34:56
Speaker 2: always have to paint that picture, but you actually a
35:00
Speaker 2: real why behind why you're asking someone to do something.
35:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think my answer comes off of that, which
35:06
Speaker 1: is there's this weird thing that I think has to
35:09
Speaker 1: happen in leadership where for a company to get something
35:12
Speaker 1: off the ground, you kind of have to flex above
35:15
Speaker 1: your weight class. You have to believe and see the
35:18
Speaker 1: bigger version of what you're creating and like own it
35:21
Speaker 1: and be and feel bigger than maybe you are at
35:25
Speaker 1: that moment. And at the same time, you need to
35:28
Speaker 1: show the humility with your team, and you need to
35:32
Speaker 1: know how to do almost every job that you're going
35:35
Speaker 1: to end up hiring somebody for or at least why
35:37
Speaker 1: you're hiring them because you can't, like, I'm not going
35:40
Speaker 1: to be the one to build you an Excel model.
35:42
Speaker 1: I know why we hired our finance team, but I
35:45
Speaker 1: think those skills are so important, and I think we
35:50
Speaker 1: obviously certainly did that in the beginning. And I do
35:53
Speaker 1: think when I look back COVID and kind of the
35:55
Speaker 1: humbling of COVID for everybody brought that back to life.
35:59
Speaker 1: And again when I look at sort of like what
36:00
Speaker 1: are the positives to take away from like a really
36:03
Speaker 1: hard time in leadership? That is one.
36:06
Speaker 4: Dream big, but keep it real.
36:09
Speaker 1: Yes, that is much more sistinctuis.
36:12
Speaker 3: This has been so good. Thank you so much for
36:14
Speaker 3: sitting with us, Danielle and Carly. Congratulations on this.
36:19
Speaker 1: Thank you.
36:20
Speaker 4: And this is in some ways the beginning of a
36:23
Speaker 4: new future. You know, it's not the end, it's the beginning.
36:25
Speaker 2: We are very excited and we feel very grateful to
36:28
Speaker 2: have the phenomenal partners at everyday health group that we do.
36:33
Speaker 3: All right, Ryan, that was Carly and Danielle. What'd you
36:37
Speaker 3: think I've known them for years. It's always a pleasure
36:39
Speaker 3: to sit down with those two women. They are always
36:42
Speaker 3: so honest, so transparent, I relate a lot to their story,
36:46
Speaker 3: not in the sense that I built this incredible media empire,
36:49
Speaker 3: but that I started in news.
36:52
Speaker 4: I had friends that I sat next to you in
36:54
Speaker 4: the newsroom.
36:55
Speaker 3: We didn't have the conversations my friends and I in
36:57
Speaker 3: the newsroom, like let's start a media empire one day,
37:00
Speaker 3: but they did. And you know one thing they didn't
37:02
Speaker 3: talk about, which I know about them, is how they
37:05
Speaker 3: were roommates and they took out credit card debt to
37:08
Speaker 3: start the skim And so to fast forward to today
37:11
Speaker 3: to see how far they've come, the wins, the losses,
37:14
Speaker 3: the setbacks, was a really nice moment for all of us.
37:18
Speaker 5: Yeah, they were incredible just to hear from founders who
37:21
Speaker 5: are so incredibly grounded. I was really impressed with given
37:25
Speaker 5: their you know, stratospheric trajectory of starting from such humble
37:30
Speaker 5: beginnings to the company they now are in the company
37:32
Speaker 5: they now keep. It was just really refreshing to hear
37:36
Speaker 5: how they still talk about things like I loved their
37:39
Speaker 5: wrap up when it came to not being afraid to
37:42
Speaker 5: do the little things the day to day of running
37:44
Speaker 5: a company, whether it's taking out the trash or building desks,
37:48
Speaker 5: that really was nice to hear from someone in their position.
37:52
Speaker 3: Yes, and growing up with their audience. They are very
37:57
Speaker 3: dedicated to their audience. They have been very intentional from
38:00
Speaker 3: day one to service her and to learn as much
38:05
Speaker 3: about her, get ahead of her questions, to provide the
38:08
Speaker 3: products and the content that they know she needs, even
38:13
Speaker 3: if she doesn't want to learn it. I love what
38:16
Speaker 3: they were like, it's important the Civil War and Syria.
38:19
Speaker 4: It's important. It's depressing, but you need to learn it.
38:22
Speaker 4: So we're going to give it to you.
38:22
Speaker 3: We're going to feed your vegetables, but it's going to
38:25
Speaker 3: taste like fruit loops.
38:26
Speaker 5: And I love how clear that voice is because I
38:29
Speaker 5: think that's a big testament to their success. And something
38:32
Speaker 5: I really took away from this conversation was the fact
38:34
Speaker 5: that they had such a clear picture of their voice
38:36
Speaker 5: and how they wanted to speak to their audience from
38:38
Speaker 5: the get go and communicating with that authenticity and making
38:42
Speaker 5: a real connection with their audience is something that they've
38:45
Speaker 5: maintained from twelve thirteen years ago to today, and I
38:48
Speaker 5: think it's a big sign of their success. And like
38:50
Speaker 5: I said, something that I really took away from the
38:52
Speaker 5: conversation today is just that authenticity of voice.
38:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, both as leaders and as content creators, for sure, And.
38:58
Speaker 5: I especially appreciated even things like the flexibility with grammar
39:02
Speaker 5: and the idea that they could speak directly to their
39:05
Speaker 5: audience in a way that their audiences used to being
39:07
Speaker 5: spoken to in their own homes and their own workplaces.
39:10
Speaker 4: Which was a delineation at the time.
39:12
Speaker 3: You know, people weren't writing emails in the way that
39:15
Speaker 3: they were in such a conversational tone and wait a minute,
39:18
Speaker 3: no exclamation points. You know, they were very specific about
39:21
Speaker 3: their tone and their style, and they stuck with it.
39:25
Speaker 3: And I also was a little surprised a little I
39:28
Speaker 3: don't know why I was when they were describing the aggressions,
39:32
Speaker 3: let's just say, and the characterizations, the false characterizations as
39:36
Speaker 3: women founders, that they're still dealing with this bs sometimes
39:41
Speaker 3: and they've gotten maybe quote unquote better at navigating it
39:45
Speaker 3: and so far as choosing their battles, but I was
39:47
Speaker 3: disheartened to hear that that is still part of what
39:49
Speaker 3: they have to deal with, hopefully not day to day,
39:51
Speaker 3: but it still shows up even for a woman who
39:54
Speaker 3: climbs the top of the hill as a founder. I mean,
39:57
Speaker 3: really like an exit is what only so many can
40:00
Speaker 3: hope for, and yet here they still are.
40:04
Speaker 5: And that's why I'm so glad we can have conversations
40:06
Speaker 5: like this on this show, is that it's good for
40:09
Speaker 5: our audience and their audience to hear that even at
40:12
Speaker 5: the pinnacle, at the peak, they're still dealing with the
40:15
Speaker 5: same things that people are dealing within their daily lives.
40:17
Speaker 5: And that speaks also to just their transparency and authenticity.
40:21
Speaker 5: And it's such a shame that we still have to
40:24
Speaker 5: have these conversations. That's so frustrating, but I think it's
40:27
Speaker 5: really important that we do have these conversations so that
40:31
Speaker 5: we can highlight that that's still happening and how they've
40:33
Speaker 5: dealt with it.
40:34
Speaker 3: And how they've maintained their standards and they've continued to
40:38
Speaker 3: be successful in spite of all of that. So yeah,
40:41
Speaker 3: thank you for their transparency around it. That was really
40:43
Speaker 3: an important thing.
40:45
Speaker 4: Such a great conversation.
40:48
Speaker 3: Well, listeners, I hope you enjoyed this episode as much
40:50
Speaker 3: as we did. If you like what you're hearing, please
40:52
Speaker 3: follow and subscribes you don't miss out on any new episodes,
40:55
Speaker 3: And as always, we want to hear your thoughts to
40:57
Speaker 3: make this the best show possible.
41:00
Speaker 4: Ease leave us a review.
41:01
Speaker 3: In the meantime, you can find me at Farnoosh Charabi
41:03
Speaker 3: on Instagram and I'm always on the So Money podcast.
41:06
Speaker 4: I'll see you next time.
41:08
Speaker 3: This podcast is a production of iHeartRadio's Ruby Studio. Our
41:12
Speaker 3: executive producer is Matt Stillo and our supervising producer is
41:16
Speaker 3: Nikiah Swinton.
41:17
Speaker 4: This podcast was edited by Sierra Spreen.