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Introducing The Book Deal: first ep from debut authors Tina and Madeleine! · The Book Deal

• 0:40
  Tina: Welcome to the very first episode of the book deal podcast.
• 0:44
  Tina: I'm Tina Strachan.
• 0:46
  Madeleine: And I'm Madeleine Cleary.
• 0:48
  Tina: We're very excited that this is our very first episode, Madeleine.
• 0:52
  Madeleine: I'm so excited.
• 0:53
  Madeleine: And we thought this time around, we'll just introduce ourselves, talk a little bit about where we're up to in our book deal journey.
• 1:00
  Madeleine: Um, and then in subsequent episodes for the rest of the season, we'll interview some fantastic authors that we've lined up, which is very exciting.
• 1:07
  Madeleine: Um, and we will always start the podcast as well with a little chat and a little update because there is so much going on, isn't there, Tina?
• 1:15
  Tina: There's so much.
• 1:15
  Tina: I think we've both had a really big month.
• 1:19
  Madeleine: Oh, a big year, a big, I think it's just been a big everything.
• 1:23
  Madeleine: So it's, and you have done some very exciting things this morning as well.
• 1:27
  Tina: I have done some very exciting things already this morning.
• 1:30
  Tina: Yes.
• 1:30
  Tina: So it's a good time to catch up.
• 1:31
  Tina: I've literally come off the back of three assessments, which, of a manuscript that I've written of, well, I've written, um, the first act and I have, uh, very heavily plotted the rest and, um, it is the next, uh, project that I want to jump into.
• 1:50
  Tina: Um, and so yes, I've just come off the back of three assessments, online assessments, um, with two publishers, so a publisher and then an agent, and then another publishers from different houses.
• 2:03
  Tina: Uh, and I had two last weekend.
• 2:07
  Tina: or the weekend before actually as well.
• 2:08
  Tina: So it's it's they're so good.
• 2:11
  Tina: So these assessments are through what's known as a CYA conference, which is children and young adults.
• 2:17
  Tina: But you, they do have also have adult categories for the competition and all the speakers that they have at the conference of just have valuable knowledge for all the people.
• 2:27
  Tina: whatever genre you write in, and you can do these assessments.
• 2:30
  Tina: So, uh, you know, it's the only conference or, um, that I know of that just has all these amazing, um, agents and, uh, publishers and industry professionals that you can book in and to do a 15 minute assessment with.
• 2:47
  Tina: So you send them your work.
• 2:49
  Tina: Yeah.
• 2:49
  Tina: It's incredible because that's, these are the people that we want the feedback from.
• 2:53
  Tina: Right.
• 2:54
  Tina: Um, yeah, so all, all debut or, or.
• 2:57
  Tina: authors out there who are trying to, you know, learn the craft or write, or just want some feedback.
• 3:02
  Tina: They're the best people to, to, um, get it from.
• 3:05
  Tina: So that's the CYA conference and you can check them out online.
• 3:08
  Tina: And, um, it's usually the same time every year, which is about June, July, and you've got to be quick to book in for the assessments because they book out very quickly.
• 3:17
  Tina: It's just nice to know that, um, yeah, you're on the right track with something.
• 3:21
  Madeleine: Yes.
• 3:22
  Madeleine: Yes.
• 3:23
  Tina: And just really awesome feedback and really good ideas for moving forward.
• 3:26
  Madeleine: oh, I think it's brilliant.
• 3:27
  Madeleine: And I'm taking a step back as well.
• 3:29
  Madeleine: We'll also say, so we, we met, um, through the debut crew for next year.
• 3:34
  Madeleine: So we're public getting published next year, traditionally in Australia, Tina on these, looking at those new projects, she also has a three book deal coming out Oh, are they all coming out next year as well, Tina?
• 3:45
  Madeleine: So this is, you're doing your next project in addition to also doing the edits for three books.
• 3:53
  Tina: Yep.
• 3:54
  Tina: Yes.
• 3:54
  Tina: Um, you could call me crazy if you like.
• 3:58
  Tina: Fine.
• 3:58
  Tina: Um, yes, yes I am.
• 4:01
  Tina: Uh, this one, I really want to, uh, to progress.
• 4:06
  Tina: It's really fun.
• 4:07
  Tina: It's a really, it's a story that just flowed really easily for me.
• 4:09
  Tina: So I'm really excited to keep going on it.
• 4:11
  Tina: Um, but I only just handed in the script.
• 4:14
  Tina: This is the crazy month that we've had.
• 4:15
  Tina: I handed in, I had book three of the series due a couple of weeks ago.
• 4:20
  Tina: And, um, so I handed that in, I made the deadline.
• 4:25
  Tina: Um, and.
• 4:27
  Tina: And then I, the, and literally that day also I had two, these two assessments with the publishers.
• 4:32
  Tina: And then the next weekend I had the conference, um, the CYA conference where they also announced the winner of, um, all their, all their categories for writing.
• 4:41
  Tina: So that was really exciting too, cause I won my category, which was the, um, yeah, middle grade.
• 4:47
  Tina: Yes.
• 4:47
  Tina: Thank you.
• 4:47
  Tina: Oh, sorry.
• 4:48
  Tina: It was, sorry.
• 4:49
  Tina: It was, it's a middle grade, um, um.
• 4:51
  Tina: manuscript, but because I have got these three books with a publisher at the moment, they have a published category so that you're not going in against, um, unpublished authors because you do have a bit, a, um, an advantage because you've worked with publishers before and you've had your work edited by publishers.
• 5:07
  Tina: So you, you know, you've learned, you know, along those lines.
• 5:10
  Tina: So yes, I, um, yes, it was a published category.
• 5:13
  Tina: So.
• 5:14
  Madeleine: that's amazing, Tina,
• 5:15
  Tina: too.
• 5:16
  Madeleine: I have so many questions about your process because I think we're also probably the one of the first crossover podcasts where you're in the children's young adult, middle grade kids.
• 5:28
  Madeleine: scene.
• 5:29
  Tina: Mm hmm.
• 5:30
  Madeleine: and not to say that you won't write adult fiction in future, but that's where you are at the moment.
• 5:34
  Madeleine: And I'm writing for adults.
• 5:36
  Madeleine: So in historical fiction, genre is my first debut.
• 5:40
  Madeleine: And so I feel like we can bring different perspectives on the industry from different genres, which I'm not sure if I'm aware of any other podcast that does this, where they can bring I do think that there is a different approach to.
• 5:54
  Madeleine: To how you approach getting a book deal for these types of, um, different genres.
• 5:59
  Madeleine: Would you agree?
• 6:00
  Tina: Yeah, I think so.
• 6:01
  Tina: And like, I, like, I haven't tried to.
• 6:03
  Tina: You know, try and get a book deal in the adult, um, genre, but yes, I think so.
• 6:09
  Tina: I, it sounds like there's a lot of opportunities like this one with the CYA conference.
• 6:14
  Tina: Um, and
• 6:16
  Madeleine: what, so when, cause you were, you originally were, um, part of this, the 2022 CYA conference.
• 6:23
  Madeleine: Is that right?
• 6:24
  Madeleine: Is
• 6:24
  Tina: yes, yes,
• 6:25
  Madeleine: won one of the
• 6:26
  Tina: I won that one.
• 6:27
  Tina: Yes.
• 6:27
  Tina: And that's what directly linked, got me the, um, book deal that I have now with
• 6:32
  Madeleine: That's amazing.
• 6:33
  Madeleine: So would you say that, um, is this one of the most important ways of getting a book deal in the CYA genre, or is that, is that like, I'm just interested to know different pathways.
• 6:45
  Madeleine: And it does seem like in the last few years, it's a really prominent conference and I'm seeing a lot more spoken about it.
• 6:53
  Madeleine: I think that it's a great opportunity for people who are writing in that genre to attend.
• 6:57
  Tina: Yeah, I think it's, it would probably be my number one tip for, there's my tip of the day already.
• 7:04
  Madeleine: Oh, Yes, we're going to do tips on this, lots of tips, but we'll try and do one, one main tip page.
• 7:09
  Madeleine: and
• 7:13
  Tina: of them.
• 7:14
  Tina: Anyone who is an aspiring author, uh, I would check out the CYA conference online, uh, get ready for next year's, um, assessments, uh, the conference you can attend it online, um, enter the competition.
• 7:28
  Tina: It's the, and the brilliant thing about the competition is, uh, that, and this is why I entered in the first place.
• 7:35
  Tina: They, you don't just enter the competition and not hear anything if you don't shortlist or win, but you, they, every person who enters, and this year there was over 600 entries, you, every single one of them gets the judge, the judge's feedback.
• 7:52
  Madeleine: that is So valuable.
• 7:54
  Madeleine: because often you submit your work into the world and you hear Nothing.
• 7:58
  Madeleine: You might get a rejection email, which is great.
• 8:01
  Madeleine: So then that's just the way it's built.
• 8:03
  Madeleine: People are
• 8:04
  Tina: Yeah.
• 8:05
  Tina: So it's amazing because, uh, it's just allows, I, at first thought, this is a really cheap, easy way of getting some feedback because I hadn't shown anyone my work before.
• 8:15
  Tina: So that was awesome.
• 8:17
  Tina: And like also I've been a, um, judge, um, and like a first reader on competitions before, and there's.
• 8:25
  Tina: Yeah, I've been reading things and I thought, oh, if only I could let this person know just this one thing, like it just is such a big change that they could, or little change that they can make that would make a big difference.
• 8:34
  Tina: And, um, but just sort of not having that ability to, to give that feedback, I guess.
• 8:39
  Tina: Um, it's so valuable.
• 8:41
  Tina: Um, but yeah, So yes, my tip, get online, check it out and get ready for next year because it's just the best way of not only getting some feedback from the competition, but getting in front of the publishers as well.
• 8:55
  Tina: So it's not just about, you know, trying to pitch them or your manuscript, it's about making that connection because, you know, you'll see them again next year, and it gives you something to, if you do pitch, say, you might remember me from The assessment we had last year because yeah, it just gives you that little bit of extra something.
• 9:13
  Madeleine: Yeah, that's fantastic.
• 9:13
  Madeleine: Um, and it's in, it's held in Brisbane.
• 9:15
  Madeleine: Is it each year as
• 9:17
  Tina: The conference is held in Brisbane, but it's online as well.
• 9:19
  Tina: I think there's people internationally, it's open internationally.
• 9:22
  Tina: I believe the competition and you can zoom in.
• 9:25
  Madeleine: And so what does it mean when you win
• 9:27
  Tina: Oh, so the prize is, the best prize of all that everybody wants right, is.
• 9:32
  Tina: And invaluable, but you could have put a price on it.
• 9:35
  Tina: 15 minutes with the publisher that, um, judged your, judged your
• 9:41
  Madeleine: 15 minutes?
• 9:42
  Madeleine: That's actually a long time when, when you do think about pitches, because you, you do need to sound, you can't really prepare something very formal for that.
• 9:50
  Madeleine: It has to be how, how do you approach though that you've done that five times now, I think in the last two weeks, how do you approach those?
• 9:58
  Tina: Yes.
• 9:59
  Tina: Well, I guess the idea with it is their assessments.
• 10:01
  Tina: So they see your work and the idea is that you just, They give you tips and advice and feedback and that was different for everyone.
• 10:08
  Tina: So it's not a pitch, although it's not a pitch, but you know, you are sending them your work and it's, you know, it is the dream that they go, Hey, I want that one.
• 10:17
  Tina: And that certainly happens.
• 10:18
  Tina: I know people who have, yeah, it is.
• 10:21
  Tina: Cause we all know how hard it is to get in front of a publisher, don't we?
• 10:24
  Tina: It is, you know, you've got the choice of the slush pile or then your only other option really is.
• 10:30
  Tina: It's trying these other, you know, uh, ways of getting in front of them, like with, but I don't know one that's as good as, as this, as you're getting it in front of them, right?
• 10:39
  Madeleine: of course, if you've got an agent that makes it, you know, you can probably maybe get to the top of the slush pile, but if you, if you're going into the industry, like, like we both did without an agent, then any, any method you can to sort of make, make yourself stand out is important.
• 10:53
  Madeleine: I think.
• 10:54
  Tina: Absolutely.
• 10:55
  Madeleine: minutes is highly valuable, but I could imagine that would be very stressful as well
• 10:59
  Tina: It is.
• 11:00
  Tina: I, by the time I got off, when I got up to my last one, I was actually more stressed out than the first one.
• 11:05
  Tina: And, um,
• 11:07
  Madeleine: Why?
• 11:07
  Tina: I don't know.
• 11:09
  Tina: It was building.
• 11:09
  Tina: It was, I'd already had half an hour of people like judging your work, right?
• 11:15
  Tina: And giving you all this feedback, um, and frantically writing notes and also trying to be like, Um, um, yeah, so but yeah, I've got all these scrawled like notes and messages and all these sorts
• 11:29
  Madeleine: For those listening online, Tina just handed, showed the camera all the notes.
• 11:32
  Tina: my, my messy messy notes.
• 11:35
  Tina: And um, and trying to, everything they say, you know, trying to write it down because then I'll take all that and I'll.
• 11:42
  Tina: Um, you know, member manuscript, which I've already done, um, you know, those first few, yeah.
• 11:47
  Tina: And it's just great.
• 11:48
  Tina: And some of them were so simple.
• 11:49
  Tina: They're like, you made a spelling mistake on, or there was an Americanization of a word on this page.
• 11:54
  Tina: I'm like, how did that get through?
• 11:55
  Tina: So, yeah.
• 11:57
  Tina: Um,
• 11:57
  Madeleine: different publishers saying two different things.
• 11:59
  Madeleine: Hmm.
• 12:06
  Tina: I think overall it was fairly consistent.
• 12:09
  Tina: Um, I think, I think maybe it's personality based how it comes to you though.
• 12:16
  Tina: So, uh, whereas some people, yeah, like to be very practical in their feedback and others like to give you the vibe of what they thought.
• 12:26
  Tina: But, but it, it, uh, You know, if anything, and if nothing, you know, comes of, of, out of these, um, assessments, just, I think it's given me another confidence boost in that I can write.
• 12:40
  Tina: Apparently.
• 12:42
  Madeleine: you had doubted yourself with a three book deal or
• 12:48
  Tina: You know, that's what authors do, right?
• 12:49
  Tina: They just have, they continually doubt.
• 12:52
  Tina: So yes.
• 12:52
  Tina: So for
• 12:53
  Madeleine: particularly
• 12:54
  Tina: does not have a book deal yet, it doesn't, it doesn't change that self consciousness continues to remain.
• 13:01
  Madeleine: I think particularly, well, probably men as well, but also a lot of women have that self doubt.
• 13:07
  Madeleine: That they can do this and they can write.
• 13:08
  Madeleine: That's at least the experience that I've seen in speaking to other writers.
• 13:12
  Madeleine: It's something that's always in your heart that one, even when you get a book deal, you're worried that the publisher might turn around one day and say, actually, you know what you can't actually write.
• 13:23
  Madeleine: So we're going to renege on that deal.
• 13:26
  Madeleine: That's still a constant fear.
• 13:27
  Madeleine: Even one year after signing the deal,
• 13:30
  Tina: Yep.
• 13:30
  Tina: Just that something will happen and they'll go, Oh, the market has completely changed.
• 13:34
  Tina: We're just going to sit on this maybe for five years and see how it goes or something.
• 13:38
  Madeleine: Yep.
• 13:39
  Madeleine: Yep.
• 13:39
  Madeleine: You just don't know.
• 13:40
  Madeleine: And also I think in this industry, you can't really control what's, what people will like at what time.
• 13:46
  Madeleine: So you might have a brilliant written, brilliantly written manuscript, but it's not just not the right time for it.
• 13:52
  Madeleine: So there's so many different factors, I think that goes into that submission and selection process, which we can talk about in subsequent episodes, I think.
• 14:01
  Tina: Absolutely.
• 14:02
  Tina: There's so much to talk about,
• 14:04
  Madeleine: There is.
• 14:05
  Tina: but anyway, that was my nerve wracking morning that I've
• 14:08
  Madeleine: I feel nervous for you, Tina.
• 14:09
  Madeleine: I was actually, I woke up this morning.
• 14:11
  Madeleine: I'm like, Oh, Tina's going to go into all those assessments straight into a podcast.
• 14:14
  Madeleine: I'm just like, Oh, hope she's going to do well.
• 14:17
  Tina: It's perfect timing.
• 14:18
  Tina: Perfect timing.
• 14:20
  Tina: Um, but what about you Madeleine?
• 14:22
  Tina: You've had a really busy month as well.
• 14:25
  Madeleine: Yeah.
• 14:25
  Madeleine: Yeah.
• 14:26
  Madeleine: So, um, well.
• 14:27
  Madeleine: we, we were quite lucky in that we had four weeks in Europe over winter, like many Australians, we escaped winter, which is nice.
• 14:35
  Madeleine: And, um, came home, brought home A very exotic European COVID that kept us busy for a week.
• 14:40
  Madeleine: Um, so just recovered from that now, just gone back to my full time job, my day job.
• 14:46
  Madeleine: Um, and, uh, that's also coincided with, um, My editor sending back the third round of structural edits for my novel.
• 14:56
  Madeleine: Uh, so, uh, it feels like I've been hit back into real reality and I'm in Melbourne and it is absolutely freezing at the moment as well.
• 15:04
  Madeleine: So, um, I was talking to a friend and she's like, you have to just remember to live seasonally.
• 15:09
  Madeleine: So.
• 15:09
  Madeleine: Yeah.
• 15:10
  Madeleine: During winter, hibernation is okay, don't have to do everything, can sit at home reading a book.
• 15:15
  Madeleine: So that's kind of what I'm going to focus on.
• 15:17
  Madeleine: But, um, yeah, last week I had a, um, fantastic chat with, um, my editor.
• 15:22
  Madeleine: So it's Ruby Ashby or with a firm press.
• 15:25
  Madeleine: Um, and so Ruby has been, um, Part of the, so she's the one that signed me up, um, over a year ago now, actually, I think.
• 15:34
  Madeleine: Um, so we started talking in June, 2023, um, and she's done the first two structural edits.
• 15:41
  Madeleine: Um, and I'll talk about what, what that entails, what a structural edit is as well in a sec.
• 15:45
  Madeleine: And, um, she's now brought on a second editor, um, at a firm.
• 15:49
  Madeleine: So Laura Franks, who is absolutely wonderful and has done a very detailed read of the novel.
• 15:54
  Madeleine: And so, um, so looking at.
• 15:58
  Madeleine: The Butterfly Women, which is my novel, um, we had some massive changes that we agreed on at the start.
• 16:05
  Madeleine: And that was a really collaborative process, which is fantastic.
• 16:07
  Madeleine: Um, and they gave me a lot of autonomy and agency to make those changes.
• 16:12
  Madeleine: Um, and there's some really big picture kind of structural changes.
• 16:16
  Madeleine: And often I'm not sure what you got with your structural edit, but you just get a report with, um, some pages of notes that the editors made and saying, okay, think about this, think about that.
• 16:26
  Madeleine: Um, um, and Ruby actually went into a lot of detail as well, which was amazing.
• 16:31
  Madeleine: Yeah.
• 16:31
  Madeleine: I think, um, getting the energy to, to dive back in, cause you kind of go through these peaks with your, your edits where you work on it really consistently for six weeks and then you return them and then you wait six to eight weeks.
• 16:45
  Madeleine: and then you forget about the book and then you go through this peak again.
• 16:48
  Madeleine: So I'm now just.
• 16:49
  Madeleine: Trying to get back into this is the book.
• 16:52
  Madeleine: This is what I want to do.
• 16:53
  Madeleine: Um, this is what I have to do.
• 16:55
  Madeleine: Um, and, uh, so Yeah.
• 16:57
  Madeleine: it's, it is a long process.
• 16:58
  Madeleine: So from signing the book deal in July last year, um, to publication, which will be in about April, we think next year.
• 17:08
  Madeleine: So that's, um, close to 20 something months.
• 17:11
  Madeleine: Um, so things move slowly.
• 17:13
  Madeleine: Would you agree, Tina?
• 17:14
  Tina: Yeah.
• 17:15
  Tina: Yes.
• 17:16
  Tina: Mine will be, um, and it's like you said, there's these peaks and troughs and, um, sometimes things move really quickly and then sometimes there's these breaks.
• 17:25
  Tina: Um, but yeah, so mine will be about two, almost two years exactly.
• 17:29
  Tina: Um, from signing.
• 17:30
  Tina: So, um, yes, things can move really, uh, slowly, but did you think, cause you've had a bit of a break from the manuscript, right?
• 17:40
  Tina: So that's a good thing.
• 17:42
  Tina: How do you feel about coming back into it now?
• 17:44
  Madeleine: Um, yeah,'cause um, Laura was sort of my editor.
• 17:47
  Madeleine: She was saying, oh, I'm so sorry you've done so much, and now you have to jump back in.
• 17:51
  Madeleine: Like, it must be really defeating to have another round and another round.
• 17:55
  Madeleine: And, um, I, I actually, I love the book, so I'm, I'm really excited to see where it's going and I can feel like, it's getting better.
• 18:03
  Madeleine: Um, so I think maybe for people, emerging writers, writers who are looking to get published.
• 18:09
  Madeleine: um, that is one step.
• 18:10
  Madeleine: And then the next step is you still have to keep diving back in and back in and back into your manuscripts.
• 18:15
  Madeleine: You've got to have that patience.
• 18:17
  Madeleine: You have to have a novel, a manuscript that you absolutely love with characters that you love, um, with a story that you love, because it's going to be with you for years, even after signing the deal.
• 18:27
  Madeleine: Um, and because I love it and I'm just excited to be back into it.
• 18:31
  Madeleine: I think it's, yeah.
• 18:32
  Madeleine: What about you?
• 18:33
  Madeleine: Do you, do you have that, that passion for structural editing?
• 18:38
  Tina: I feel like, um, I've just been in a continual round of edits for a year now and will be for another year, um, because there is a three and they're all at various stages of edits.
• 18:51
  Madeleine: Hmm.
• 18:51
  Madeleine: I don't know how you keep your mind.
• 18:53
  Madeleine: Like I can only do one at a time for you to do three.
• 18:56
  Madeleine: Amazing.
• 18:57
  Tina: Yes, but they're, you know, they're a lot smaller than, how many words is yours?
• 19:02
  Madeleine: Uh, it's too hot, too long.
• 19:03
  Madeleine: It's 95, 000 at the moment.
• 19:05
  Madeleine: It should be a bit less.
• 19:06
  Madeleine: I think.
• 19:07
  Tina: Oh, have you been told to cut it
• 19:09
  Madeleine: No.
• 19:09
  Madeleine: I haven't been told yet, but I think.
• 19:11
  Madeleine: Probably it needs to be like generally historical fiction adult, maybe 80 to 90 is the ideal.
• 19:16
  Madeleine: I think.
• 19:17
  Tina: Okay.
• 19:18
  Tina: But they clearly like the additional 5, 000 words because they've let you keep it in.
• 19:23
  Madeleine: uh, not yet.
• 19:24
  Madeleine: We'll see.
• 19:25
  Madeleine: I think it's going to get cut down a bit.
• 19:26
  Madeleine: Um, I have a lot of, um, background stuff that I think can get cut down.
• 19:31
  Madeleine: So it'll make it tighter, but for now they're just letting me go forth and write what I want to write.
• 19:37
  Madeleine: There'll be the red pen coming through very, very shortly, I think.
• 19:40
  Tina: Yeah, that's amazing because it must be coming up to somewhat final ish edits, right?
• 19:45
  Madeleine: Well, this is the last round of structural edits.
• 19:48
  Madeleine: And then I think, who knows?
• 19:49
  Madeleine: Um, yeah, they may decide, no, Madeleine, your writing's terrible.
• 19:54
  Madeleine: You need to redo another one.
• 19:56
  Madeleine: Um, we'll see.
• 19:56
  Madeleine: Uh, and then copy edit, and then it has to go through a fact check because it's historical fiction.
• 20:01
  Madeleine: So, um, firm press have learned that it's really important to get the historical facts.
• 20:07
  Madeleine: Correct.
• 20:08
  Madeleine: Of course, though, there's that You can always, um, take some liberties, I think, cause it's a fiction.
• 20:13
  Madeleine: Um, but, um, have to make sure I acknowledge those liberties and I've definitely taken some liberties for the sake of the story.
• 20:20
  Madeleine: Uh, and so, yeah, so I think though, um, so there's still like a lot to go.
• 20:24
  Madeleine: And I think hopefully though, by the copy edit, it should be pretty much settled.
• 20:28
  Madeleine: So I've got a couple of months to, to sort of chop and change.
• 20:32
  Madeleine: So Yeah.
• 20:33
  Madeleine: What about you?
• 20:35
  Tina: Yeah.
• 20:35
  Tina: yeah, like I said, I'm at all different stages or I'm waiting on the, the, the, one of the final type study stages where the words, uh, you get this document where the words, uh, look exactly how they're going to look on the page, which is really
• 20:55
  Madeleine: Oh, that's cool.
• 20:57
  Tina: Yeah.
• 20:58
  Tina: But, uh, because it's middle grade and it's got quite a lot of illustrations.
• 21:03
  Tina: uh, by the most wonderful Max Hamilton, who's, who's incredible and she's just really brought the characters to life and, and, and it just, it just makes it look amazing.
• 21:13
  Tina: Uh, So what they do now is then they fit the images into the words and so move all that around.
• 21:20
  Tina: So then that will be the next stage of that one, um, having a look how they, how they fit.
• 21:25
  Tina: And then, yeah, book two's still, uh, I'm waiting on my second round of edits back.
• 21:31
  Tina: And
• 21:32
  Madeleine: Did they call them structural edits in the, in middle grade?
• 21:35
  Tina: I, I haven't had to change anything.
• 21:38
  Tina: I don't think I've had to change much structurally, be honest.
• 21:42
  Tina: It was, it was, um,
• 21:44
  Madeleine: That makes me feel terrible.
• 21:45
  Madeleine: Three rounds, three rounds.
• 21:47
  Tina: uh, yeah, but I feel like historical fiction is, uh, yeah, there's probably a lot to talk about
• 21:55
  Madeleine: I'm never writing historical fiction
• 21:57
  Tina: Yeah.
• 22:00
  Tina: Right.
• 22:00
  Tina: Something
• 22:00
  Madeleine: The things, the random things you Google.
• 22:03
  Tina: that.
• 22:04
  Tina: Yeah.
• 22:05
  Madeleine: I'll write a romanticy and become the next Sarah J Maas and then I'll just retire on my, you know, millions of dollars.
• 22:11
  Madeleine: I should say.
• 22:15
  Madeleine: that
• 22:16
  Tina: Yeah.
• 22:16
  Tina: And, um, and like I said, book three only just went in, so I haven't heard anything back yet about that.
• 22:22
  Tina: And I know that they're super busy.
• 22:23
  Tina: Uh, uh, my publisher is super busy.
• 22:27
  Tina: So she would just attended the last, uh, conference last weekend up here and did a bootcamp, which is another cool thing that you can do at the conference is bootcamps you spend the whole day.
• 22:36
  Madeleine: not sponsored by the CYA.
• 22:38
  Madeleine: It might sound
• 22:38
  Tina: I know, no affiliation apart from the fact that I've gone there a lot, uh, but it really is.
• 22:46
  Tina: It just provides, it's, it's, yeah, it really does provide a lot of, um, help for aspiring authors.
• 22:53
  Tina: Uh, yeah, so that's, so she's been really busy too, so yeah,
• 22:57
  Madeleine: I feel like everyone in publishing is very, very busy all of the time and you're always wanting to knock on the door and be very polite and say, hello, I've got some questions.
• 23:07
  Madeleine: It's that was actually, so, um, we, so Tina is part of, um, we mentioned we were both part of the debut crew for next year and we've got this wonderful community of, um, new emerging writers who are all being published next year and we meet monthly and it's.
• 23:22
  Madeleine: just being wonderful to share.
• 23:24
  Madeleine: I think common traits and similar stories and answers as well.
• 23:28
  Madeleine: And I think one of the, um, one of the biggest things on the last chat that we had on Monday night was, um, yeah, about asking questions and understanding what the plan is and the schedules and feeling like, wait, can, can I email my publisher?
• 23:44
  Madeleine: Will they get, I know they're so busy.
• 23:46
  Madeleine: Will they get upset?
• 23:47
  Madeleine: And I think that's one of the big things.
• 23:50
  Madeleine: And, um, and I think that's why having this cruise handy, because we often will, one of us will go and ask our publisher the question and then share the answer with the group.
• 24:00
  Tina: We send one person in for Intel and get them to bring it back.
• 24:06
  Tina: Oh, but it's, it, it is an amazing little group to be a part of.
• 24:10
  Tina: So if anybody does have books coming out, anyone listening has books coming out in 2025, um, maybe just, uh, DM Madeleine
• 24:18
  Madeleine: Yes.
• 24:18
  Madeleine: or Tina.
• 24:20
  Tina: or me.
• 24:21
  Tina: And, uh, yeah, and we can, uh, get you into the crew.
• 24:26
  Tina: Similarly, if you're not There's, I'm also part of a debut crew for 2024 because my original release date was 2024.
• 24:33
  Tina: Uh, so similarly, if you're looking for a crew to be a part of, uh, yeah, DM me about that and I can, um, we can hook you up there.
• 24:41
  Tina: Uh, the 2024 crew is about, is over 70 members strong now.
• 24:46
  Madeleine: Lisa Kenway, who's organized that, she actually said, I think they're at 78 now, which is massive.
• 24:52
  Madeleine: so we're sort of seeing at 25 at the moment, which is a nice, easy number to manage, but I'm imagining that will grow.
• 24:57
  Madeleine: It
• 24:59
  Tina: even in the last month, hasn't it?
• 25:01
  Madeleine: has, it?
• 25:01
  Madeleine: has everyone signing their book deals, which is Very exciting.
• 25:05
  Tina: Very exciting.
• 25:06
  Tina: Very exciting.
• 25:07
  Madeleine: What was it like when you signed your book deal for the first time?
• 25:10
  Madeleine: And what, how was that feeling?
• 25:12
  Tina: Um, Oh, the whole process or the actual
• 25:16
  Madeleine: No, I think we'll get, we'll talk later and more closer to our publication date about how we got that and the story.
• 25:23
  Madeleine: But what was that, just when you signed, what was that feeling you got?
• 25:27
  Madeleine: The first, that first time.
• 25:28
  Tina: Yeah.
• 25:29
  Tina: I think the actual, to be honest, I think the actual signing of it, I was a little bit, it was sent to me as an electronic PDF.
• 25:35
  Tina: And I was like, Oh, and with an electronic signature going back, I'm like, Oh, you know, you see people do, um, videos of them signing the, uh,
• 25:43
  Madeleine: a beautiful fountain pen and they've got a glorious bookshelf in the background.
• 25:48
  Tina: they're on their table and they're with their glass of champagne and I was sitting in the car at the school car park waiting for the kids.
• 25:55
  Tina: And I was like, this is really, you know, I still filmed it, but I did not, it's like, this is me pressing the button sign because
• 26:05
  Madeleine: to share that.
• 26:06
  Madeleine: You have to share that with us.
• 26:07
  Madeleine: I want to see that.
• 26:09
  Tina: maybe it, so, so that side of it felt a little bit uneventful, but I still printed it out anyway, onto hard copy, um, just obviously just to have and to hold, um, and to hold up with my little glass of champagne.
• 26:20
  Tina: So, uh, it, but it still was just an almost surreal feeling to be.
• 26:27
  Tina: thinking I am signing this contract with HarperCollins and it's just amazing and I couldn't have asked for more.
• 26:33
  Tina: How about you Madeleine?
• 26:34
  Tina: How did you feel?
• 26:36
  Madeleine: Yeah, it's strange, isn't it?
• 26:37
  Madeleine: Um, I think the best moment for me was, um, coming off a call with my, um, now editor, Ruby, where she, um, at the end of our Zoom call, she, she just wanted to have a chat and at the end said, yeah, so I think we're gonna offer you a contract, um, and we'll send it to you in a week.
• 26:54
  Madeleine: And I got off the call and, um, I went downstairs to see, like, my husband was there and he's like, oh, how'd the chat go?
• 27:00
  Madeleine: I said, I think I've got a book deal.
• 27:03
  Madeleine: I think I have.
• 27:05
  Madeleine: And he's like, what?
• 27:06
  Madeleine: And he's like, that's amazing.
• 27:08
  Madeleine: I'm like, Yeah.
• 27:09
  Madeleine: I think it is like, it just sort of, and it all happened really quickly.
• 27:12
  Madeleine: Cause when publishing does want to move fast, they will move very, very, very fast.
• 27:17
  Madeleine: Um, and, um, and I remember going to my friend's house that night.
• 27:22
  Madeleine: Um, and she, she just had a baby.
• 27:26
  Madeleine: And so we were sitting and playing baby, talking about stuff.
• 27:29
  Madeleine: And she goes, you're never going to forget.
• 27:31
  Madeleine: This day, like there's so many days in our lives that we forget, but she said, you'll never ever going to forget this one.
• 27:38
  Madeleine: This is, this is a change.
• 27:40
  Madeleine: This is something different.
• 27:41
  Madeleine: This is amazing.
• 27:42
  Madeleine: This is what you've been working for for so long.
• 27:45
  Madeleine: And so I think nothing has really, and I hadn't signed it at that stage.
• 27:50
  Madeleine: It was just, you know, Sort of said
• 27:52
  Tina: Yes.
• 27:53
  Madeleine: going to offer you this.
• 27:54
  Madeleine: And I think that moment it's, it's going to be difficult to replace in future because I think at that stage, you don't know anything else about the industry.
• 28:03
  Madeleine: You don't know anyone else.
• 28:05
  Madeleine: You don't know about advances or marketing campaigns or all of that kind of stuff, which we'll get into and we'll follow as we go through it all next year.
• 28:15
  Madeleine: But, but that moment's the best.
• 28:16
  Madeleine: So for those people who are out there submitting and getting rejections, like we totally understand, And we've all been, I think, through that self doubt, that process, but it is worth it.
• 28:27
  Madeleine: Once you get that point, I think
• 28:30
  Tina: And that's why we're, we're recording this podcast, right Madeleine?
• 28:33
  Tina: It's that to try and help other people get, have that feeling too of the all elusive book deal.
• 28:42
  Tina: Um, and we're really hoping that, uh, we can provide some practical advice.
• 28:48
  Tina: Uh, you know, steps to, you know, practical steps to follow and tips to follow, not just from us, but we have quite a few awesome, uh, guests lined up.
• 28:59
  Tina: The first one I'm recording tomorrow, which I'm very excited about, uh, and we will probably maybe in our next one, um, yeah, give a little bit more away about, um, who we'll be talking to, but they all have, uh, all the guests that we're speaking to, we've wanted to interview because they do have.
• 29:15
  Tina: Quite interesting stories of how they've gotten to where they have gotten to and how they scored their first book deal to and it's I guess just recognizing the importance that every, every writer's deal, and I'm going to use the word journey, everyone's journey, is, it absolutely is different.
• 29:32
  Tina: And so you just have to pave your own way forward.
• 29:35
  Tina: And that's what we're here to help people with, hopefully.
• 29:39
  Madeleine: I think, um, you know, for me listening to podcasts about, you know, People, other people had gone through.
• 29:46
  Madeleine: This was really helpful when I was approaching this.
• 29:49
  Madeleine: And so we want, and we're coming at it from, from an Australian perspective as well, but this is also helpful for other writers in other countries as well.
• 29:57
  Madeleine: And how to approach writing, how to approach things like, um, appearing before a publisher and pitching your work.
• 30:04
  Madeleine: And, um, Part of why I got my deal was because I was able to achieve that.
• 30:09
  Madeleine: So we'll talk about from an Australian experience, but it's definitely crossovers for other people as well out there who are interested in, in getting this book deal.
• 30:17
  Madeleine: So hopefully we can help you guys secure a book deal in future, um, and, and motivate you along the way as well.
• 30:25
  Madeleine: Um, so Tina, should we finish off with our tips?
• 30:30
  Tina: Yeah, my dog has just started snoring.
• 30:31
  Tina: So I think that, and she's sitting beside me.
• 30:34
  Tina: So I think that's the perfect time to wrap it up.
• 30:38
  Tina: What's your tip, Madeleine?
• 30:40
  Madeleine: Well, I had, I had to think about it cause I forgot that we were doing tips.
• 30:43
  Madeleine: Um, and so I had to rush, um, one minute before we started recording thinking, and I, so what I, what I have been doing actually.
• 30:50
  Madeleine: So this is, it's kind of like a two in one tip.
• 30:53
  Madeleine: Um, as soon as I signed my deal, I actually started writing a diary on writing about my thoughts, um, and feelings.
• 31:03
  Madeleine: And also when ideas strike, um, about my, um, stories and my novels and everything.
• 31:10
  Madeleine: Um, and, and even just like writing down the process.
• 31:13
  Madeleine: Like, oh, I had a meeting today with Ruby, my editor, and we talked about this.
• 31:18
  Madeleine: Um, and I think it would be really helpful for emerging writers to start to.
• 31:22
  Madeleine: Do that because I think, um, often the biggest question is like, Oh, how, how did you come up with your ideas or how did you, um, you know, feel about this and having, and because these things take years, it's helpful to be able to go back and look at that.
• 31:37
  Madeleine: Um, and I also think.
• 31:38
  Madeleine: Um, you know, when you're feeling down about your writing, it's nice to document that, because then you can look back on that and see that episode and see, see where you were at, where your mind was at.
• 31:48
  Madeleine: So I actually went back to my diary and looked through some of my, um, scrolls.
• 31:53
  Madeleine: And one of the things, um, that I wrote about was approaching your work, um, playfully.
• 31:59
  Madeleine: So when you're feeling really crappy about your writing and your work, or you feel like you've got a block, I tend to just take a step back and go, you know what, I'm just going to have a bit of fun, and I'm just going to throw my characters into this, and I'm just going to see how this goes.
• 32:14
  Madeleine: And often the best writing for me is generated when I'm Um, just approaching it a bit more like a sense of play.
• 32:19
  Madeleine: And I think as adults, we often don't get to play as much.
• 32:23
  Madeleine: And part of why I love hanging out with my nieces is because you get to have a bit of fun and a bit of a play.
• 32:28
  Madeleine: And in the end, this is why we're all doing this business, isn't it?
• 32:31
  Madeleine: So we can enjoy the process.
• 32:34
  Tina: Yeah, that's a really good tip.
• 32:36
  Madeleine: two in one tip diary and have a bit of fun.
• 32:39
  Tina: Have a bit of fun.
• 32:40
  Madeleine: What about you, Tina?
• 32:42
  Tina: Um, I think I sort of, I'm going to just use the tip that I said before, but being, but I guess more broad, it's quite a big one and it's a practical one though.
• 32:51
  Tina: Um, go, go away right now and have a Google for competitions or assessments or, or pitch.
• 32:58
  Tina: It's, it's, it, there's so much to cover in that and it is quite broad, but if you don't put the work out there, it will.
• 33:07
  Tina: It won't get any further.
• 33:09
  Tina: So it's good to just.
• 33:11
  Tina: Just even just get those first initial comments, even if it's just a vibe of the feeling, it's not marketable, you know, things along that right down to, um, you need to change your sentence structure, you know, uh, yeah, just, it's about just taking that step, entering, entering it into a competition or a pitch or just getting it in someone else's eyes and uh, yeah, taking on that constructive feedback
• 33:36
  Madeleine: I think
• 33:36
  Tina: and you never know what you might out, what else you might come from it as well.
• 33:40
  Madeleine: I think that's great.
• 33:41
  Madeleine: And actually that's something we will cover.
• 33:43
  Madeleine: Um, so, um, in one of our future guest interviews, um, who I will not name, but, um, she actually ended a competition, didn't win, but, um, ended up getting, um, uh, sort of listed in, in one of those competitions.
• 34:01
  Madeleine: Got her agent, you know, and so it can open up pathways by just, even if you don't win the competition, um, people will be reading your work and That's what you want.
• 34:11
  Tina: That's exactly right.
• 34:13
  Madeleine: We need to talk about though, that fear of releasing your work into the world for the first time too.
• 34:17
  Madeleine: So that's also a scary thing to do.
• 34:20
  Tina: There's so much to cover, but we also want to hear, uh, from listeners if they have any particular questions that they would either like us to answer or we can ask our guests.
• 34:30
  Tina: So how can we do that?
• 34:33
  Tina: We have an Instagram page now.
• 34:34
  Madeleine: We do.
• 34:36
  Tina: That's probably the best way of doing it.
• 34:38
  Madeleine: So, um, what's our, that's our tag on Instagram
• 34:41
  Tina: It's just the Book Deal Podcast.
• 34:44
  Madeleine: So look us up on Instagram and, um, and subscribe to our Podcast.
• 34:48
  Madeleine: as well, um, for future episodes.
• 34:50
  Madeleine: Um, and, um, yeah, so please, please send us any of your feedback, comments, whatever you want us to do, and we can talk about it as much as we can.
• 35:01
  Tina: Oh, we so hope that you'll tune in to hear more from us.