Latest / United We Scan / Midweek with special guest Tyler Vasseur

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Midweek with special guest Tyler Vasseur · United We Scan

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The views expressed in this podcast are of the
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presenters and the presenters only and do not
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represent the views, opinions, or strategies of
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the United States Postal Service, the National World
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Related Carriers Association, or the National Association
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of Letter Carriers. Welcome back everybody. We
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have a mid -week special this week. We
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have NALC activist Tyler Vassar with us. For
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those of you that listen to 8 -Horbertation and
0:58
FedUp, you will recognize Tyler. We
1:00
are all excited to have him joining us this
1:03
evening. Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm
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glad to be here. My name is Tyler Vassar. I'm
1:09
a shop steward with the National Association of
1:11
Letter Carriers Branch 9 in Minneapolis, Minnesota. And,
1:16
yeah, I mean, I can get right into it. What
1:21
are you doing? How did, you know, you have a
1:25
movement going on right now in the NALC. And
1:29
you're the one that's spearheading it. Why
1:31
don't you tell us about that? Yeah,
1:33
so I'm sure if people here have heard my interview on
1:37
Permade Arbitration, Corey Walton, or from FedUp, or
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maybe have seen stuff online, in NALC we've
1:44
started this movement called Build a Fighting NALC.
1:48
We've done roughly once a month
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Zoom meetings to try to bring together, you know,
1:55
members of the NALC from across the country to try
1:57
to organize and transform our union. The
2:00
way that we're really getting organized now and
2:02
sort of launching that for this was an open bargaining
2:06
resolution. And so I'm sure most of you
2:09
are aware the NALC has been in contract
2:12
negotiations since February of 2023. Our
2:17
last contract actually expired in May of 2023. So
2:20
it's going on almost a year without a contract,
2:23
you know, we're working under the old contract.
2:25
This is in the context of
2:26
inflation, in the context of I think the broader
2:29
labor movement where unions are putting up a fight and
2:32
winning and getting organized publicly and
2:36
winning really sort of, you know, massive wage gains
2:40
not seen in decades. And I think so all these
2:42
things have come together to make I think the
2:45
broader membership of the NALC pretty disgruntled, I
2:48
think with how things are going. And
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so that's, you know, I think without, you know,
2:53
we're not getting many updates. There
2:54
isn't much transparency about the bargaining
2:56
process. There's no attempt to mobilize or
2:59
organize the membership to leverage on USPS to, you
3:02
know, negotiate in good faith and settle a contract
3:05
quickly. And so that's, it's in that
3:08
context that we put forward the open bargaining
3:10
resolution in first and branch nine in Minneapolis
3:13
and spread across the country a little bit about
3:16
the open bargaining resolution itself. It's,
3:20
it's calling for two, two main things, calling for
3:23
more transparency, regular updates. And
3:28
also on top of that, sort of to activate and mobilize
3:32
the membership, it calls for the membership to be
3:35
mobilized with public rallies that can bring in
3:37
the broader labor movement, bring in the public,
3:40
highlighting our main demands as a way to win
3:42
public support, get media attention and put some
3:45
pressure on USPS to, you know, actually settle a
3:48
contract, because I just don't think it's acceptable
3:50
for a contract to be expired for a year and
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really with no end in sight. And
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so that's the basics of it. It's,
3:56
it's really connected with, with NELC members who are
4:00
looking for more transparency, but also to,
4:03
to get active, to actually put up a fight. It's
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been passed by 25 branches and one state association
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so far, there are, you know, dozen, at least a
4:12
dozen that I know of branches were in the
4:14
process of members discussing it and probably
4:16
planning on bringing it forward at upcoming branch
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meeting, at upcoming, you know, general membership
4:21
meetings. This is all going to go to the
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National Convention in August where we're going to
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fight for this resolution. If
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it gets passed there, it becomes official policy.
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It's a little too late for this
4:31
contract, for this thing to go in place for this
4:34
contract, but next time around, we'll actually, if
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open bargaining passes, we'll have an actual
4:38
process to put up a fight and win a contract. I
4:41
really, I do accept everyone, you first were on
4:45
with Corey and I've listened to both episodes
4:47
with Ron, they're unfit up as well. And
4:50
I, you know, as on the rural side, we can relate
4:53
greatly. I think an opening bargain,
4:57
open bargaining resolution would actually be good for
5:00
the rural side as well. I mean, we just started our
5:03
contract negotiations in March and, you know, ours
5:06
expires in May. So it's, we definitely, because
5:10
you don't know until, oh, we have a potential
5:14
contract and here's your chance whatever and people
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just, when you only have 20 % of the membership,
5:22
even voting, it's, you know, because we're like,
5:25
oh, we're good in our races, we're good, let's
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vote and nobody else even cares. I
5:30
think having something with open bargaining, being able
5:34
to know what we're trying to fight for or what
5:37
they're trying to fight for for us is definitely a
5:40
great idea and much needed across the board. And
5:45
obviously, for the city side, but also I think for
5:49
all the unions, I do have to agree with that.
5:52
Definitely. Go ahead, Josh, you work
5:54
about the case. I was going to pretty much
5:57
touch on what you just said. I
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would say I can remember a few years back reading an
6:02
article about where a school district up in the
6:07
Northeast did close bargain, you know, they had closed
6:11
bargaining and the union put a stop to that by
6:15
inviting a half dozen to a dozen teachers to actually
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come and sit in the negotiating room. And
6:24
the school board was not happy about that at first
6:26
and they're like, well, you either let them sit in and
6:30
hear what we're talking about or we're not going
6:32
to negotiate. Yeah. So I think open bargaining
6:35
of, you know, even this is what we're asking for. This
6:41
is what the post office is countering with. And
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this is where, you know, and then as it gets
6:48
closer, this is what we met in the middle on. I
6:51
think we give a good faith to the craft, whichever
6:56
craft it is. Exactly. I think if you saw the
7:00
UAW, the United Auto Workers, the big three that
7:02
strike in that contract negotiation process, or if
7:05
you saw even the Teamsters at UPS, they didn't even
7:08
go on strike, but they built up a strong campaign
7:10
and the credibility of, you know, potential strike. But
7:13
the point I'm trying to get to is both of these
7:15
unions, and there's many more examples, they use
7:17
public actions, they use big rallies, and they gave
7:21
regular updates. Like I think it's pretty
7:23
powerful, like you were saying, to see if you saw
7:27
during the build up to the negotiations at UPS with
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the Teamsters and UPS, the Teamsters would come out
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and say, this is what UPS is offering, this is what
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we're fighting for. And what that can do is it
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can show, I mean, it can get the membership riled up
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and ready to get organized and fight because it can
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show, oh, that's what the company thinks I'm worth,
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you know, if they're trying to undercut the union and
7:47
offer pretty, or pay raises or not in budging on other
7:52
issues that is important to workers. And
7:54
so I just think there's many, many ways that this
7:57
is beneficial to the union and beneficial for workers
8:01
and can actually strengthen our position. And
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yeah, as well as just the overall arguments, I think,
8:06
for transparency, we're not asking that every single
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thing is broadcasted, you know, the laundry list of
8:12
hundreds of items. No, but what are our three,
8:15
four main demands? I think that's, you can
8:17
really rally and mobilize people behind, you know,
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some solid demands in a program that, you know, can
8:24
get people excited and can make people realize what
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can I, you know, not just what can my union do for
8:30
me, but what can I do with my union? How
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can I get organized with my coworkers and build a
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stronger union that actually fights and actually wins
8:36
for us? I have a very 100 % with
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that. And that kind of segues into,
8:42
you know, the quote, quote, arterial motive of asking
8:47
you to join us of not only so you can spread
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your word, but how can we potentially transition that
8:54
and get the ball rolling in a similar manner on the
8:58
rural side? Yeah, absolutely. That's
9:00
one thing that I've noticed from this year. I
9:02
mean, 2023 was a big year for unions, a big year for
9:05
the labor movement. We saw whether it was the
9:07
writers in Hollywood or like I said, the United
9:10
Auto Workers, teachers unions across the country
9:13
that, yeah, people are fed up with, I think, inflation
9:16
and the cost of living crisis is a big push. But
9:20
I think people are pretty fed up with how things
9:21
have been going and aren't going to accept workers
9:24
aren't going to accept the same paltry raises, you
9:26
know, that we've been getting over the last, you
9:28
know, decade and more. And I think what I've it's
9:32
been really inspiring to me is learning and are, you
9:35
know, trying to learn lessons from what other
9:37
unions are doing and how they're how they're getting
9:38
organized, how they're fighting. And
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I think that I have a lot to learn from from the
9:43
broader labor movement. We definitely have a lot to
9:45
learn from across the postal unions from each
9:47
other. And I think we should
9:48
definitely try to work more to work together more than
9:51
we currently are. I definitely agree with that.
9:53
Like, you know, it's we have
9:56
myself, James, Bill, who's not with us tonight, and
10:00
and Toasty, who's not with us currently. I
10:04
mean, we're all four of us are running for National
10:07
Board come August at our National Convention as well.
10:12
And then that's the thing. And
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that was a goal when we started the United We Scan
10:16
podcast was to educate our carriers and to get them
10:20
involved. Like I said, when you when
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ballots go out, whether it's for our National
10:25
Delegates, or it's to ratify a new contract, when
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you're only getting 20 % of the membership, even
10:32
returning ballots, I mean, when you're getting a
10:34
contract when you have 130, 100, 100 ,000 plus, you
10:39
know, union members, and only 20 % of them are
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voting a contract in, you know, that's like, Oh, you
10:47
have 86, it passed by 86%. It
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was 86 % of 20%. You know, it's definitely
10:53
wanting to get the people involved. And
10:55
I think the transparency, especially when it comes to
10:59
contract marketing could definitely make a
11:01
difference. I definitely have to agree
11:03
with you on the open bargaining. Yeah,
11:05
definitely. I think, you know, I think
11:07
that's, that's a that's a very real question. Like
11:10
how do you get people involved? How
11:11
do you get turnout for elections or for the
11:13
contract vote higher than 15, 20%. I
11:17
can't remember what the 2022 NLC National Leadership
11:20
election turnout was, but it wasn't good. I
11:22
don't think it was more than 20%. But
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it's that's that's a big part of this open
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bargaining resolution. It's just one step in this
11:28
direction. But I think it really one of
11:30
its one of the important parts of it is that we're
11:33
looking to find creative ways to get more members
11:36
active in the union and to develop, you know, record,
11:39
you know, identifying develop a new layer of
11:41
leaders that could get involved because it's, I
11:45
don't think it's enough for a union leadership to say,
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Oh, you want to get involved, just come to a
11:50
union meeting. Obviously, you'll always encourage
11:52
people and invite people to union meetings and make an
11:54
attempt to get people out. But
11:56
the reality is, working people, we look really busy
11:59
lives, especially people with families and with
12:03
young, especially young children, we live really
12:05
busy lives. Not everyone is able to come
12:08
to a union meeting every every month or get involved
12:12
on a daily basis. But there are, I think, other
12:14
ways that we can always try to get them to those
12:17
meetings. But we should also look for
12:18
creative ways to get people involved and get people
12:20
activated. And if you do, just imagine
12:22
how powerful it would be to in the start of
12:26
negotiation, started contract negotiations, they're being
12:29
organized in the NLC, for example, they'll be
12:31
organized rallies happening across the country with our
12:34
three or four main demands, you can get, you know,
12:36
people out into the street, it gets people excited, it
12:38
gets people motivated, it makes them realize, Oh,
12:40
this is what my union can do. This
12:42
is what we can fight for together. And
12:44
I think it can get people interested in the union.
12:47
And then on top of that, like
12:48
I said before, I think it would also, that's just one
12:50
aspect that sort of identifying mobilizing
12:53
members is just one aspect for how it can be
12:55
beneficial for us internally. But
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I really, I truly believe it would strengthen our
12:59
bargaining position. USPS, if our negotiators walk
13:03
into that room on the backs of, you know, dozens
13:06
even, but especially if we got, you know, dozens of
13:08
rallies, dozens and dozens of rallies happening across
13:10
the country, with thousands of members out on the
13:12
street, media attention, public public support,
13:15
getting elected, you know, politicians and officials
13:19
out in support of us, that puts pressure on USPS and
13:22
they have to, you know, that it makes them make it
13:25
a lot more likely that we can negotiate for a strong
13:27
contract and then make it a lot less likely that it
13:30
will be drawn out for, you know, a year, like we're
13:33
currently situation or currently in. You
13:35
talk about empowering the craft and stuff like that.
13:39
How can somebody who is
13:40
listening to this podcast right now, empower the
13:44
carriers that are with them, especially ones that
13:47
are in fear of managerial retaliation in a Stuart
13:51
system currently that some allow management to violate
13:56
and harass carriers. In some cases, stewards are in
14:01
bed with management in that aspect. How
14:03
would you encourage them to be in participation of
14:05
this? Yeah, that's a good point. I
14:07
mean, to me, it's not enough just to, I mean,
14:10
using any LCS, an example, it's not enough just to
14:12
fight for this open bargaining resolution. It
14:15
just went open bargaining and everything's going to
14:16
be transformed and perfect after that. Like
14:19
it's, I think I see it as a part of an overall
14:21
transformation of, overall process of trying to
14:24
transform the union. And so in some cases, if you
14:26
have a local leadership that isn't, isn't, isn't
14:30
putting up a fight, isn't being proactive, or is
14:34
openly, you know, in bed with management, or you
14:36
have a steward who is not doing their job, like I
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think that's where I think this, you know, I think
14:42
there needs to be an overall transformation of
14:43
the union, new people need to step up, you know,
14:45
elect a new steward or elect a new local
14:48
leadership. But it's, you know, it's one
14:50
thing to say that I think it's, it's important to be,
14:52
I think, sort of organized around a set of ideas or
14:55
a program. It's not enough, I think, to
14:56
just say, vote for me for steward, because I'll be
15:00
better than the other guy. I
15:02
think you have to say, you have to give this a what
15:04
do you stand for? What kind of what are you going
15:06
to fight for? How are you going to, yeah,
15:08
are you going to better represent us? Not
15:10
just that, you know, you can be better, but you
15:12
know, what do you actually stand for? I
15:14
don't know. I think that's kind of an
15:15
important aspect to it. I don't know if that answered
15:17
the question completely. There's
15:18
a couple things in there. So
15:20
how would you encourage somebody that's not a
15:23
steward, not in not really fully involved in the union
15:26
to get more people to step up and be involved, get
15:30
active and things like that? Yeah,
15:32
it's a good point. I mean, maybe I can just
15:34
give you this example. It's,
15:36
I don't know if there's any sort of initiative or
15:39
any sort of organizing going on in the royal
15:41
carriers union at the moment, but maybe this is
15:44
a good way to talk about it is the example of of
15:47
getting the open bargaining resolution passed. We've
15:49
started to organize these national monthly meetings in
15:52
the NALC called Build a Fighting NALC. We've
15:55
gotten the last one, we had 300 people on the
15:57
call. And that's a place that you
16:00
don't have to be an elected or super active in
16:02
the union or in an elected position to come to these
16:05
meetings. I would even encourage royal
16:07
carriers to come to them. They
16:08
can get a sense of what we're trying to build. But
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the point I'm trying to get to is, while there are
16:11
a lot of local branch presidents, we can have a
16:14
business agent or two on, steward, there's also a lot
16:17
of rank and file members who don't have a position
16:19
aren't maybe super active in their union at the
16:21
moment because they don't know how to get started.
16:23
But that is a really good
16:24
place to start because we can talk about what kind
16:27
of union we want to build, which you can, you can,
16:29
people that bring out a person or two from their
16:31
station or from their branch and that can kind
16:34
of help you connect and realize you're not alone in
16:37
this. There are people across the
16:38
country that are trying to organize to fight for a
16:40
better NALC. And yeah, I don't know if that
16:44
fully answers your question, but just trying to give an
16:45
example of what we're trying to do in the NALC.
16:48
So in your office, do you
16:50
have any royal carriers there? No,
16:52
not in my office. I'm in a, I'm like right in
16:54
the middle of the city in Minneapolis. Okay.
16:57
I figured I'd ask that because I'm sure people
16:59
would love to know if you're interacting with
17:01
royal carriers in that aspect. So
17:04
in offices that have city and royal carriers, would
17:07
you want royal carriers talking with the city
17:10
carriers on this stuff? Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
17:12
I think just to get back to what I was saying
17:13
before, I think we have, I think the broader labor
17:16
movement and unions across different industries have a
17:19
lot to learn from each other. I
17:20
think that definitely applies to postal unions. I
17:24
mean, I think it's, I know there's, there's a lot to
17:27
it, but I think it's, it's rather unfortunate that
17:28
there's a, that the city and royal carriers are in
17:32
two different unions, I think in a perfect world
17:34
and maybe that's something we can build towards in
17:35
the future. Details can be worked out, but I
17:38
honestly believe we should have one, one carriers
17:40
union. I think we'd be stronger
17:42
together versus divided where post office can kind
17:46
of play us off of each other and, you know, sort
17:48
of dividing conquer tactics. So
17:50
yeah, I would definitely encourage, I think city
17:53
carriers and royal carriers to just talk to each
17:54
other, what's going on in our respective unions, how
17:57
can we learn from each other? I
17:59
think if you have a sort of movement to reform or
18:03
change or create a more fighting union in the
18:06
ending, I'll see. I think that it would, it
18:08
would be strengthened if there was also a similar
18:10
movement within the royal carriers union, you know,
18:12
and we can, we can work together on things, we can
18:14
learn lessons for how to, how to fight to change
18:18
both of our unions, you know, in their respective
18:20
ways. But yeah, definitely. Speaking
18:22
of working together, considering that everybody
18:25
here listens to from aid arbitration and at least on
18:29
the stage or listened to from a arbitration and fed
18:33
up, I do recall that Corey put out that you guys had
18:37
a resolution for the union to go against the
18:42
delivering for America plan, which then turned around to
18:45
me putting it forward on the rural side for you. Do
18:48
you think things like that, where the unions work
18:51
together in a common good for the postal service and
18:56
their respective crafts would be something that
18:59
could be passed along through all the unions
19:01
together and employees themselves banding together
19:05
like that? Definitely. Yeah, that so that
19:08
resolution was actually another resolution that was
19:10
first passed in Branch 90 in Minneapolis. And
19:12
now we've gotten an only, I don't know the exact
19:15
number in any LC, but a handful of branches and
19:17
there's some momentum building around it. It's
19:19
really exciting here that you put it forward. I
19:22
was put forward in that rural carriers union. I
19:25
think absolutely, I just, I think, you know, there was
19:28
a time when all four unions bargained together.
19:31
All the contracts were lined
19:33
up. We bargained together. And
19:35
I truly believe that that you sort of united front
19:39
of the different postal unions is puts us all in
19:42
a better position to negotiate for strong and
19:44
leverage for a strong contract. I
19:46
think that also applies to things outside of contract
19:50
negotiations. That applies to, you know,
19:52
there's the DeJoy Postmaster General, Loosed DeJoy's
19:55
tenure plan is sort of slowly being implemented.
20:00
You know, I would argue it's
20:01
not, it's not going well. And
20:03
it's, I think the current plan as it stands is
20:06
pretty destructive, both to you know, workers working
20:10
conditions, its potential impact on clerk craft
20:13
positions, you know, the increase in commute times,
20:17
and also the, you know, the loss of potential loss
20:22
of service for our customers because of these
20:25
plans. Like there's so much to it. I
20:27
think it's a destructive plan that I think all four
20:29
postal unions should organize together to fight
20:34
back against the bad aspects of it. And,
20:36
you know, if our leadership isn't taking that
20:38
initiative, I think in unions, we have the ability
20:42
as members to put forward ideas and organize with
20:46
other members to, you know, put forward resolutions and
20:50
make our unions fight on this stuff. And
20:52
nearly, I think that can be really transformative for
20:55
the union as a body that will process can be really
20:59
transformative. I know some people would say,
21:01
well, it's just change. Are you guys arguing against
21:04
change? Are you arguing against, you
21:06
know, just anything happening that changes
21:08
what's going on? And I think you'll agree that
21:11
it's not about changing things. It's
21:14
about what is responsible and cost effective, not
21:18
only for carriers and clerk craft and all other crafts
21:23
involved, but also for the postal service as a whole.
21:27
Would you agree? Absolutely.
21:29
You know, I think the world's constantly changing.
21:31
I don't think it's helpful
21:32
for us to be against change as a concept. And
21:36
that, I don't think that's at all what we, um,
21:39
opposing the postal consolidation, opposing
21:41
sorting and deliver centers. I
21:43
don't think that, I don't think that that is just
21:44
being against change. I think any change that comes
21:47
at any, any sort of updating or modernization of
21:50
the postal service cannot come at the expense of
21:53
workers working conditions and it cannot come at the
21:55
expense of our ability to serve the American public.
21:59
And we are the, we're supposed
22:00
to be a public service and anything that, you know,
22:04
any attempts, I think to degrade that service, I
22:07
take pretty personally myself, but also I think,
22:09
I think most postal workers would, but also I think
22:12
it's our duty to the public to, as workers to
22:14
fight for a fully functional, relatively
22:17
affordable postal service. And
22:19
if, if I, if I see that that's under, under threat,
22:22
if I think workers see that's under threat, I
22:23
think it's our duty to organize and try to, try
22:25
to stop that. So yeah, no, just, just to
22:27
say again, I don't think it's just being against
22:30
change for the sake of it, because I want everything
22:33
to be, uh, the way it used to be or something,
22:35
but because any change should not come at the
22:38
expense of working conditions or customer
22:40
access to facilities or any of that. And
22:43
so we did get a comment slash questions. It
22:47
says, used to, years ago, the letter carrier steward
22:50
used to put up posters with what was happening in
22:53
the union. Do they still do that? And
22:55
it says our local letter carrier steward doesn't do
22:59
that. And would a program of
23:01
publishing in print what the union is up to help
23:05
the rural correct? So I think the question is in
23:13
the past, they used to put up post, you know, on the
23:18
bulletin board signage of what's going on, but at
23:22
least in their office, it stopped. Is
23:24
that something that, as far as you know, still
23:27
something that's happening? If
23:29
not, is that something you think they should go back
23:31
to? And how do you feel it would
23:34
benefit or not either crack? Yeah,
23:37
I think that would be, I think that, uh, we should,
23:40
we should, that should definitely be something that
23:42
has done. And I haven't, I think I
23:44
haven't gotten one. I'm the steward of my station.
23:47
I haven't gotten a poster
23:49
that has an update. You know, they talk about what
23:51
bills we are lobbying for in Congress and updates
23:54
with the negotiations and other stuff like that. I
23:57
haven't gotten one. I'm, so I can't say that then
23:59
you'll say leadership, stop sending them out or
24:01
anything. I just know personally, I
24:03
haven't got one. But to that point, I think,
24:05
how could we, how could that be used in an even
24:08
better way to sort of organize and update, you
24:12
know, update the membership and organize the membership
24:13
around the ideas of what the union's fighting for?
24:16
Like when I would get those, it
24:18
would be pretty vague for the most part. Like,
24:20
maybe they would have specifics about upcoming
24:21
convention. Here is the date and time. But
24:23
like, last time, when I can remember, it might
24:25
still be up at my station, to be honest with you. It
24:27
was just like the contract negotiations started, you
24:30
know, and maybe some very vague stuff about the
24:32
process, maybe some, you know, very vague stuff
24:35
about like, in general, we're asking for wage
24:39
increases, but like nothing specific, nothing to really,
24:41
that really I think can excite members. I
24:43
think I would want to see the union leadership use
24:46
posters and updates like that is for them to be
24:49
that to be an organizing tool. Like,
24:51
I think posters should get sent out. And
24:53
it shouldn't, you know, I think that union leadership
24:55
should say, don't just put this poster up, put the
24:58
poster up and at your standup talk, every morning,
25:01
give give members an update. This
25:03
is what the union's doing. Give
25:04
people that sort of daily interaction with the union
25:06
and it's working so that even if they can't
25:08
participate in it personally, that they are
25:11
getting sort of their, there's that transparency
25:13
about what we're doing, you know, we're a membership
25:15
based organization, a union, members should get regular
25:21
updates and have some sense of what we're doing. But
25:23
yeah, you said at your station, the comment said
25:27
at their station, they haven't seen the NLC
25:29
steward put one up in a while, so maybe they
25:31
haven't sent one out in a while. So
25:32
I think, yeah, that's a problem. I
25:33
think that's sort of a basic way that we could
25:35
get information out to members. Another
25:37
question is, what do you think is the best and
25:40
worst parts of the NRLCA and the NLC? Yeah,
25:45
that's a really good question. I
25:48
think one of the best parts is that we both have
25:51
unions that represent, how many members are in that
25:55
rural carriers union? Over 100 ,000. It
25:59
was 120 ,000, I think. Okay,
26:02
so that's still pretty good because the NLC is, I
26:06
remember exactly how many, over 200 ,000 active
26:08
members. But I mean, there's hundreds
26:11
of, we both both unions have hundreds of thousands
26:12
of members across every part of this country. We
26:15
represent workers in every, you know, almost every
26:17
community in this country. We
26:19
have interactions with, you know, communities and people
26:23
in every corner of the country. And
26:26
I think that is, that the potential for that is
26:28
really powerful. If that, if that sort of
26:30
power and leverage would be utilized a little bit more.
26:33
My problem with, I mean,
26:34
another thing is like, yeah, I'm very, very
26:36
thankful and glad to have a union for basic
26:38
protection on the job. Or, you know, workplace rights,
26:42
the idea of having a contract. I
26:43
could not imagine going back to a workplace without
26:46
union protection. You're an at will employee. And
26:50
if you're a manager or a supervisor, doesn't like
26:52
you, they can find any reason to fire you for the
26:53
most part. I think having that basic
26:55
protection actually encourages people to, yeah,
26:59
feel a little more connected to work, maybe
27:01
stick around for longer, if, you know, in the best
27:03
case scenarios. But, you know, what things I
27:05
don't like about them is I, you know, I think that
27:09
our, and this goes for the labor movement as a whole,
27:12
because, you know, for our unions, I think they could,
27:14
our leadership could do a better job of, of trying
27:17
to actually activate and mobilize the membership that
27:20
they could actually, they could do a better job of
27:21
putting up a fight against attacks for management. You
27:24
know, the choice 10 year plan is coming out. I
27:26
don't think it's good that our unions are just going
27:28
along with it. I think that we should, you
27:30
know, if there's aspects of the plan that aren't good
27:32
for workers or for their customers and the American
27:34
public, I think that we should oppose them and
27:36
organize against them. And if that's not happening, I
27:38
think that's a real problem. So
27:40
yeah, I mean, good, you know, the good parts is I
27:42
think there's huge potential for us to get organized to
27:45
fight for better wages and working conditions that can
27:47
really positively impact the lives of hundreds of
27:50
thousands of workers in this country, or members of
27:52
our unions. The parts I don't like as
27:55
much. Yeah, it's just, I don't think
27:57
that's fully being utilized. I
27:58
don't think the membership is, is being, is being
28:01
mobilized. I think the membership's being
28:03
told about what's happening necessarily and not fully
28:07
being used to our abilities. So
28:11
in talking about the unions like that, you, we had
28:15
earlier talked about them joining together and maybe
28:19
even making one union out of it. Now,
28:21
I know there are some city carriers that like it
28:24
hourly, some city carriers that would love to be
28:26
evaluated like the rural craft, there are some rural
28:29
carriers that would like to be hourly and rural
28:32
carriers that like the evaluated system. We
28:34
came out with the rec system lately. And
28:36
of course, our president was so kind to tell the
28:39
rural craft that they've had it too good for too
28:42
long. And that's why 66 % of the
28:44
craft lost money on the first recs evaluation. But
28:47
do you think that there should be in that situation
28:51
if both crafts merged, there should be a hybrid
28:54
of that system? Or should it everybody be
28:56
hourly with overtime? Because
28:59
one of the biggest benefits that a lot of rural
29:01
carriers have is that they don't have to take other
29:06
routes out after they're, they completed their route,
29:09
unless with the current MOU they want to and volunteer
29:13
to. How would you sell the fact of
29:17
merging the two unions? Yeah,
29:18
I think, first of all, I think it's pretty unex,
29:21
I've heard that before that the your union president
29:24
had made some comment about rural carriers have had it
29:26
too good for too long. I think that's unacceptable
29:29
for a union leader to say something like that. I
29:32
think unions are supposed to fight for obviously
29:34
within some sort of reason, but like, are supposed to
29:37
fight for best possible wages and conditions that
29:39
workers can have at their respective companies or
29:42
workplaces. And so to say, I don't know,
29:44
deal with it, you lost potentially tens of
29:48
thousands of dollars, I think that's pretty
29:50
unacceptable. I honestly was pretty shocked
29:53
the first time I heard that. I
29:55
thought it was maybe an exaggeration. But
29:57
in terms of hourly versus the way that rural routes
30:02
you get paid per day, right? It's
30:05
just like, I think that could be worked out. The
30:09
details, I don't know exactly, I haven't really
30:11
sat down and thought, okay, how exactly would this be
30:13
worked out? But some sort of hybrid could
30:14
potentially be worked out, or some sort of new
30:17
process could be worked out that I think would be
30:19
mutually beneficial for both sides. On
30:23
top of that, I think the idea of mandatory overtime
30:25
in the NELC is pretty unacceptable for city letter
30:29
carriers. I think that's something that
30:30
going forward, then NELC needs to fight back
30:32
against. I don't think it's acceptable
30:34
that workers would be forced with work that on
30:36
top of your eight hours, like what should be your
30:40
normal day, every worker should have the right to,
30:42
if they want to work overtime, they can, great,
30:44
that's work overtime, but every worker should have
30:46
the right to an eight hour day. It's
30:48
a right that was fought for over 100 plus years
30:51
ago. It's kind of insane that in
30:55
2024, we have workers who are forced with sometimes
30:59
four hours of overtime on top of their eight hour
31:01
route, that just does not give you a work life
31:04
balance. I would say any sort of
31:06
merging of the unions or anything would have to come
31:09
with figuring out the exact details of that stuff, but
31:12
really mandatory overtime is something that needs to be
31:15
fought back against and ended for city carriers.
31:19
The broader point I was
31:20
thinking about is just how much stronger we would be
31:23
together, because right now, if we're not negotiating
31:24
together, the post office can play the unions off of
31:27
each other, and I think workers are much stronger
31:30
when they're united. I think one carrier union or
31:34
one postal union would definitely be much stronger
31:37
than having four different unions with different
31:39
interests all being played off of each other. Now,
31:41
the details can be, again, I think the details of
31:43
that could be worked out at some, you know, that
31:45
would be mutually beneficial to everyone, but yeah, I'm
31:49
generally in favor of more of unity than being broken
31:54
up into a bunch of different unions. As
31:57
a compromise to that instead, would you be
31:59
opposed to maybe having the NALC and the NRLCA doing
32:04
negotiations together again, like they did in the past,
32:08
you know, where all the crafts came in and
32:10
negotiated at the same time, would you be opposed
32:12
to the two crafts sitting down and being like, we're
32:15
going to work together to get a beneficial contract
32:19
for both crafts at the same time instead of us
32:22
waiting on the NALC to probably go through
32:25
arbitration at this point to do our contract
32:28
negotiations at the end? Would
32:30
you be opposed to that? Oh yeah, I would, I think
32:33
that's what should happen. I
32:34
think that the NRLCA, the NALC, the APWU, the Mail
32:38
Handlers Union, I think that we should all
32:40
negotiate our contracts together. You
32:43
know, it's part of this, to get bring back to the
32:44
open bargaining resolution and the movement we're
32:46
building around that. If that goes into effect, like
32:49
that will be a policy of the NALC that starting next
32:52
contract negotiation we're doing at the beginning,
32:54
before negotiations even start, before our
32:56
negotiators walk into that room and look at their
32:58
management counterpart in the eye, we have organized
33:02
rallies across the country with our main demands,
33:04
people mobilize, gets media support behind us, gets the
33:07
labor movement support behind us, gets the public
33:09
on our side. I think that would be even
33:11
more powerful if at the same time the NRLCA is
33:17
doing it, APWU is doing it, that we can organize
33:19
sort of joint rallies, you know, to bring together all
33:22
of the unions that represent all the workers
33:24
at the post office. I think that would present,
33:27
that would give us both a much better bargaining
33:29
position than we currently have. Here's
33:31
a question I had posed to the co -host a while ago,
33:35
and I'm going to ask you just on what your thoughts
33:38
are in regards to the negotiation. Let's
33:40
say they send you out a tentative agreement to vote
33:44
on and they tell you, you will get a 20 % increase
33:49
over the length of the contract, but to offset
33:52
that, you no longer have COLA increases. What
33:56
are your thoughts on that? Yeah,
33:58
you know, I think, you know, I've often been told
34:00
that if you get something, you have to give something
34:02
away, and I can understand that we're coming out of a
34:05
period of time where that that's very well could be
34:07
true, that for unions to get anything they had to
34:10
give something else up. I don't fully buy that
34:12
argument. I think negotiations and
34:16
winning demands and winning, you know, wage increases
34:19
and better conditions, it's a question of power, it's
34:21
a question of how well organized you are as a
34:23
union. And so if you're, you know, if
34:26
a union, if the NALC is not mobilizing members,
34:29
isn't building leverage, isn't building public
34:30
support, and yeah, I do believe that to get
34:33
something, we have to give something away, but if
34:34
we're building power, you're using the leverage and the
34:37
power of the hundreds of thousands of members, or
34:39
building public support and putting pressure on USPS, I
34:41
think that you could win a good pay raise, a 20 %
34:44
raise, a 25 % raise like the United Auto Workers
34:47
one, and without having to give up COLA or having to
34:50
give up other concessions. Speaking
34:52
of contract negotiations, I know that when we went
34:55
into these contract negotiations, we had over
34:58
400 resolutions submitted by the craft, and our
35:02
president turned around and said he would take 20 to
35:05
30, but the closer 20, the better to the bargaining
35:08
table. Does your leadership do something
35:12
similar to that, or is there any word on that? Do
35:15
you know anything about that? Yeah,
35:16
I believe so. You know, I'm not super
35:18
familiar with the ins and outs. I'm
35:20
learning a lot about the process of how resolutions
35:22
are brought forward into negotiations, but yeah, I
35:25
know that it's a similar process, I'm sure. You
35:30
have to choose which ones you emphasize and which
35:33
ones you go on, without knowing the exact ins and
35:36
outs. I believe that's how it's
35:38
done for us as well. I was just wondering if you
35:41
knew if your president would turn around and say
35:43
that out of the over 400, we'll use ours as a
35:48
reference, over 400 resolutions, he would take
35:51
20 to 30, closer to 20 of them, even though a lot of
35:56
them are different from the ones that were submitted
35:58
guaranteed. There are duplicates in there, so
36:00
that would lower the number, but it's more than
36:03
20 or 30. So did you hear anything about
36:07
what they would be taking to the bargaining table?
36:09
Like they would take so many
36:10
resolutions or anything like that? No,
36:12
I don't know any specifics, but the other thing is
36:15
just like the transparency isn't super great. That's
36:18
part of what the open bargaining resolution is
36:20
trying to address. And so, we're not entirely
36:22
sure, you know, like even what they're going into
36:25
negotiations asking for. If you look at the speech or
36:31
the sort of that was put out there by our president,
36:34
Brian Renfrow, at the beginning of contract
36:36
negotiations, it's super vague, like it doesn't
36:38
really go into much detail. It
36:40
kind of just talks about the process. And
36:42
so, yeah, to be honest with you, yeah, members of
36:44
the NLC aren't entirely sure what our leadership
36:48
and what our negotiation team is going in there and
36:50
asking for. We have to rely on leaks and
36:54
we have to rely on sort of friendly business agents
36:56
to sort of let us know what they may be asking
36:59
for. But again, I think that doesn't
37:02
create a position of where the membership has a lot
37:06
of confidence in our leadership. You
37:08
know, if we don't even know what we're going in
37:09
there and fighting for. And that's what one aspect of
37:12
what this resolution, this open bargaining resolution,
37:14
seeks to change. That does sound a bit familiar.
37:18
Our president put out a video
37:21
that they taped of his opening statement in
37:25
negotiations and it was very vague to be polite.
37:31
Yeah, we just think it just to
37:33
talk about that, just to speak to that a little
37:36
bit. I think, you know, what we're
37:37
trying to do with this open bargaining resolution
37:39
is really change the way that we do this. I
37:41
think what we're seeing right now, both from the
37:44
NRLCA and NALC leadership is I think kind of an old
37:48
and outdated way of doing things where they say NLC
37:52
leadership has come out and said that the public
37:55
opinion has no effect on things, which I don't think
37:58
is true. But they also have said that
38:00
the best way to get a good contract is to have a
38:04
good relationship with your management counterpart. How
38:07
I'm not saying you have to go in there and yell and
38:11
scream and not have some decorum or something. That's
38:15
not what we're saying. But I don't think that a
38:18
strong personality, I hope we have really good
38:20
personalities on our negotiation team, but that
38:22
alone is not enough to win a strong contract. You
38:25
have to have, you know, the power of union comes
38:27
from the members that they represent, the work that we
38:29
do every day, our ability to, you know, use that
38:33
membership to actually put leverage on management.
38:36
Workers in general are the ones
38:37
that do the work every day. If
38:38
we don't work, you know, if we say no, we're not
38:40
going to work until we get a good contract, that is
38:42
actually, I think, where the ultimate leverage comes
38:44
from. But yeah, you know, I just
38:45
think that this sort of outdated way of saying you
38:48
just have to get the best negotiators in there and
38:51
then we'll be successful. We're
38:53
seeing real time how that does not work. I
38:56
think in that opening statement video, James,
38:59
would you say it was four times our president
39:01
addressed as Lewis? Yeah, in the opening statement,
39:05
he addressed him as Lewis three times showing a
39:08
personal relationship with the postmaster general. On
39:13
top of that, he said delivering for America,
39:16
either delivering for America or delivering for
39:18
America plan nine times and literally barely touched on
39:25
a lot of the real issues that carriers are facing,
39:28
including workplace harassment, benchmarking of
39:32
our rural route evaluated compensation system, inputs
39:37
that carriers do, things like that, where management
39:40
literally is coming down on carriers and harassing them
39:46
over benchmarking things that are supposed to be
39:51
exactly what's going on on your route. They're
39:55
out there, they didn't, they were part of our
39:58
contract was they were supposed to teach us when
40:00
there is a change in our work procedures. Rex
40:03
was supposed to be taught to us. It
40:04
didn't get taught to us unless somebody actually
40:07
cared to do so. And it just feels like in the
40:12
end, we're dealing with untrained management and
40:16
union leaders who just say it's on the website, you
40:21
should have gotten the information from there, not
40:23
worrying about the carriers that were unable to because
40:28
they're not dues paying members of the craft. They
40:30
pulled their dues. Like we talked about this on
40:33
our podcast, how in just four states, this came
40:38
direct from our president in four states, we had
40:40
four over 400 carriers pull their dues. This
40:45
wasn't carriers lost for quitting. This
40:47
wasn't carriers who joined, who got hired on and
40:50
didn't start paying dues. These
40:51
were carriers that chose to pull their dues from the
40:54
union because they were sick of the stuff going
40:57
on. How do you feel about carriers
40:59
who are pulling their dues to try and show that
41:02
they're unhappy with what's going on in the union?
41:05
Yeah, I think it's, you know, in
41:07
one sense, it's understandable. You
41:08
know, I had people at my station, just like I don't
41:11
know if it was last week or a week before, but a
41:13
guy at my station said, you know, Tyler, what's
41:15
going on with our contract and why we hear updates
41:19
and, you know, kind of talking about it. And
41:21
I told him about, you know, I was bringing up,
41:23
you know, that's why we're fighting for this open
41:25
bargaining resolution. And we've been doing these
41:26
organizing meetings and he said his response wasn't,
41:28
I've heard this a lot seen it online. Corey's
41:30
talked about it. I'm like, well, what if we all
41:32
pulled our dues? I would send a message to
41:35
the leadership, right? I, you know, I can understand
41:38
where people are coming from when they think that
41:39
I don't think it's effective. I
41:41
also, you know, it's not ultimately going to, I
41:45
don't think it's ultimately going to change the
41:46
direction of the union, you know, and I don't think
41:49
it's the most effective tool. Unfortunately,
41:51
there's no quick fix. Like, there's nothing I can say,
41:54
do this and tomorrow unions going to be better, better
41:56
represent you and be more effective and be put up
41:59
more of a fight. It's, it's going, I think you
42:02
have to explain to people that it's going to take a
42:04
process of getting organized. What
42:05
you all are doing with the, with this podcast is
42:08
one example of how you can get people organized around
42:11
a set of ideas to change things. So
42:13
I would really encourage people, even if things look
42:16
bleak, I would encourage people to not pull your
42:18
dues, use this sort of moment that may seem bleak,
42:21
use this to actually organize and talk to your
42:24
fellow union members, your coworkers at your station
42:27
about what kind of union we could have. And
42:29
I think when unions actually put up a fight
42:31
and win, that is like a really good example that we
42:34
can point to of like, look, this isn't just
42:36
something I'm making up or something I think could
42:37
happen. We're seeing it happen in real
42:39
time. And to me, to bring it up
42:40
again, the United Auto Workers and their strike
42:43
and their huge contract win this last fall is the
42:45
perfect example of a union that was in a really bad
42:48
situation. They had leaders that were going
42:50
to literally go or in prison for fraud because
42:53
they're taking bribe from the companies. And
42:55
they were able to elect a reform leader, get
42:57
organized, and when the best contract they've had
43:01
in decades, 25 % wage increases, and a number of
43:05
other things. And I would say that is the
43:07
best way forward, not pulling your dues, but
43:09
actually getting organized to transform the union
43:12
going forward. Okay, well, last, I don't know
43:15
how up on this you are, but I know last year,
43:20
there was a group of rural carriers that as in my
43:25
opinion, and I think my co -host, you know, the co
43:27
-hosts kind of have similar thoughts on it, were
43:31
misguided, but did rally and unify by using, by
43:38
calling for a decertification of the
43:41
NRLCA. I think they had it of the
43:44
almost 40 ,000 give or take signatures they needed to
43:48
call for a vote. They ended up with over 10 ,000
43:51
signatures on petitions. So it's not like we can't,
43:55
you know, and I'm going to ask you what your thoughts
43:58
on that premise is. So it's not like we can't get
44:03
people to unify and stand up and join in. It's
44:08
the atrophy that a lot of people just don't want to
44:12
get involved. Yeah, yeah, that was a pretty
44:16
big thing. I remember I'm ultimately glad
44:19
it didn't go through the decertification. I
44:22
think I would, again, I would point to the need
44:24
for, you know, get organized and fight for new
44:27
leadership and leadership elections like you have
44:29
coming up. I think, but importantly, you
44:32
can't just explicitly focus on a top -down approach.
44:35
Leadership is really important,
44:36
obviously, but we need a sort of broader membership
44:39
or rank and file organizing. That's
44:41
what we're trying to do with these build -up
44:42
fighting and ELC Zoom meetings. We're
44:43
trying to bring together members to get organized,
44:46
to try to, you know, get the broader membership
44:48
organized around ideas. You know, I think you have to
44:52
identify the main issues, main demands that people
44:54
care about, and use that to get people activated.
44:57
And just on the last thing you
44:58
were saying, yeah, there's always going to be a, you
45:02
know, you're never going to be able to reach everyone.
45:04
There's always going to be some
45:06
people who just will not pay attention no matter
45:08
what, or it's going to take a lot to get them to
45:11
pay attention. But there is, I think, most
45:14
people will get involved or will pay attention if you
45:17
give them a reason to. That
45:19
being said, you're never going to have, you know,
45:22
in the ELC, we're never going to have 200 ,000
45:23
people on a Zoom meeting to talk about, well, never
45:27
say never, but you know, like it's very unlikely
45:29
we're going to get 100 % of the membership on a
45:32
monthly Zoom meeting to talk about the direction of
45:34
our union. But you can get several
45:35
hundreds, you can get thousands, and that smaller
45:38
core group can play a really influential role and
45:41
can play the role of being a sort of smaller cog that
45:44
can turn the bigger wheel that is the membership. And
45:47
so I think I always try to tell people that we
45:50
don't, you know, yeah, we only had 300 people on a
45:52
Zoom meeting, but at the same time, holy shit, we
45:54
had 300 people on a Zoom meeting that want to get
45:57
organized. Those 300 people know, you know,
46:00
each one of them know five people who know five people
46:03
who know five people in the union that they can
46:05
disseminate these ideas about reform, about
46:08
transforming the union, about putting forward new
46:10
ideas. And so I would say, you know,
46:12
just like the pulling the dues or the decertification,
46:15
I don't think those are effective tactics. I
46:17
would discourage that. I would say that we need to
46:20
just get organized around these ideas and transform
46:21
our unions going forward. I think it's really, it's
46:23
think it's really possible. And
46:24
I think the next few years we'll show just how much
46:27
we can change things when we get organized and put
46:30
our minds to it. Okay, in regards to at the Zoom
46:33
meeting, someone had asked earlier about wanting to
46:36
join in. So at your leisure, if you'll
46:39
send me the link and we'll post it in our Discord for
46:42
any of our listeners that want to join your next
46:45
Zoom meeting. Absolutely, yeah. You're
46:47
all welcome. You know, we have, it's
46:49
definitely a majority NALC members, but I've
46:51
encouraged, I know a couple APWU members that have
46:54
joined. I would encourage people who
46:56
are all welcome to come, even if it's just to
46:59
listen in, I think you can see what, you know, see
47:03
what it's like. And, you know, I would encourage
47:05
some sort of thing like that to happen in the
47:07
Royal Carriers Union as well, you know. Yeah,
47:10
everyone is welcome. I'll make sure you get that
47:12
information. The next one we're having is
47:14
on June 2nd. June what? June
47:16
2nd, Sunday June 2nd. Okay. There was, towards our last
47:21
topic, someone had commented, you can't make
47:23
people care about things they don't want to care
47:26
about. And then there was a question,
47:28
how does the NALC vote for their national delegates for
47:31
the National Convention? And do you guys have a ton of
47:34
retirees attend your conventions? Yeah.
47:38
So do you, how do you elect your national leaders?
47:42
Do you elect your national
47:43
leaders off of a delegate system? Off
47:46
the delegate system, yes. Okay.
47:48
Yeah, yeah. So it's been shot down every
47:51
time we've tried to get the one member, one vote
47:54
resolution. Are you familiar with the
47:58
history of how that was won in NALC? Because
48:00
I think it's really instructive for how that
48:02
was won. So we used to have a delegate
48:04
system in NALC as well. Coming
48:06
out of the 1970 strike, there was a huge movement
48:10
and really a national reform caucus was formed,
48:13
which is an organized, you know, a group within the
48:15
union that's fighting to transform and change the
48:17
direction of union. It was called the Rankin -File
48:19
Caucus. And so coming out of the 1970
48:22
strike for years, the Rankin -File Caucus
48:24
organized. And I think it was 1976, they
48:28
won, they got a resolution passed at the 1976
48:31
convention for one member, one vote. Out
48:33
of that, they were able to then get Vince Sombrato,
48:37
who was one of the main strike leaders from New
48:39
York City, give him elected the national office. So
48:42
it was out of the momentum coming from the 1970 strike
48:45
and all of the way that that transformed the union,
48:48
the way that that just or, you know, that got a whole
48:52
new generation of activists started in NALC. And
48:55
they used that momentum to win one member, one vote.
48:58
And ultimately, it liked the
49:00
strike leader as our president, who was the
49:02
president for the next, I don't know, 20 or 30
49:03
years. And so, you know, I think it's
49:07
not impossible for that to happen within the rural
49:09
carriers, but I think it's really important that that
49:11
would take some organizing. I
49:12
think it's totally possible. And
49:13
I would advocate that that be done in terms of how
49:16
do we elect delegates from our branches? To
49:19
be honest with you, NALC branch, you know, you have
49:23
a certain number of delegate slots based on how
49:25
many members you have. In branch nine, we didn't even
49:29
have enough people to fill up all those slots. And
49:32
so if you signed up to be a delegate, you were a
49:34
delegate, you know, I don't quote me on this, I don't
49:37
know the exact numbers, but it was like, say we had
49:38
slots for 60 delegates and like 49 people signed up
49:43
to be delegates. So all 49 are just
49:45
automatically delegates. But if there were, if the way
49:49
I understand it, if there were more people, say we
49:51
have 60 slots and 80 people signed up, then I
49:53
believe there would be elections. I
49:55
don't know how exactly those are run if it's at
49:56
the general membership meeting or if it's, you
49:58
know, mail in ballot or what it is exactly. But
50:01
I believe that it would be an election if more people
50:03
signed up than there are slots. But
50:05
for the most part, you signed up to be a delegate
50:07
who are a delegate. Now, I know talking with some
50:10
of the city carriers in my area, they have a, there's
50:14
a requirement where you have to be at so many
50:15
meetings. Is that just a local thing or
50:18
is that a national? You said that that was a,
50:22
that's the case in the rural carriers or are you?
50:24
No, no, no, the city carriers
50:28
in my area, I know they have to attend, like, you
50:32
guys have one union meeting a month, they have to
50:35
attend at least 10 of those meetings. And
50:38
I'm just throwing those numbers out there. Yeah,
50:41
yeah. You're eligible to be a delegate
50:44
for national. Yeah, that could be a local
50:47
bylaws thing for that specific branch. In
50:51
branch nine, if you make it, you know, there's 24
50:55
meetings in a two -year period in that two -year
50:57
period, if you make it to 18 out of 24 general
51:02
membership meetings, you can get up to a certain point
51:05
registration and travel paid for. And
51:07
so that's kind of a way to encourage people to show
51:09
up. Especially the most active members,
51:10
you can get travel and registration paid for for
51:12
the convention or at least a majority of it paid for.
51:14
And so that's, I don't believe
51:15
you have to, you don't, you don't have to make it
51:18
to 18 out of 24 meetings in that two -year period to
51:20
be a delegate, but in order to get funding, you
51:23
do. Got you. For
51:25
each state constitution and bylaws vary on your
51:31
compensation, but in the starting in December through
51:36
now, you know, the current month, National Magazine, it
51:40
has a nomination form with a post office box for your
51:44
state that you have to submit that, that you want
51:47
to be nominated to be on the ballot to become a
51:51
delegate. And you have 50 days before
51:53
your state convention to get that into the post
51:56
office box after, you know, then the state will make
51:59
up a ballot and mail it out to all the members.
52:03
And we vote on, for example,
52:05
I'm in North Carolina, we have, I think it's about
52:08
60 delegates to the National Convention. So
52:11
let's say there's 85 names on there, I can vote for
52:14
up to 60 names and mail in my ballot. And
52:18
then at the state convention, they will
52:20
announce who our delegates are in order of the most
52:24
votes down to the least votes and anyone below, you
52:28
know, 61 through 84 or alternate. So
52:31
you can still go as an alternate. And
52:33
if enough people for whatever reason, drop out,
52:36
you move up the list as people come off, you know,
52:39
say they're not going to make it for one reason or
52:41
another. That's 60 delegates total at the
52:44
convention or 60 from where you are in North Carolina?
52:49
We have about 1200 total
52:53
delegates across the country, the pilot and the
52:57
Puerto Rico. Yeah, our delegate system
52:59
basically is based off of one delegate per 100
53:03
members per state. Gotcha. Okay. So
53:06
yeah, that's, you know, do you guys have a lot of
53:09
retirees that get in on going to your national
53:13
conventions as delegates? Yeah,
53:15
that's right. That was the second part of
53:16
that question. As far as I, you know, this
53:19
will be actually my first convention, I've been at
53:21
the post office for six years. I
53:23
haven't been able to make it out to one before 2020.
53:25
Obviously, there was no convention and
53:26
then just didn't make it out to the 2022 convention.
53:30
But I can imagine that yes,
53:33
there are, and as far as I know, retirees have the
53:36
same voting rights when it comes to national leadership
53:39
elections. I'm sure that goes for the
53:40
convention as well. But you can't vote on a
53:43
contract if a contract comes through a vote. Yeah,
53:45
because I mean, that's the most thing I've noticed
53:47
because I've been on the national side for the rural
53:51
side with the conventions. My
53:53
first one national convention was 2018. And
53:57
I can recall, I don't remember if it was 2822 or
54:02
2019. But you know, they're going
54:05
through and they're, you know, recognizing the leave
54:07
replacements that are there and they're recognizing this
54:10
group. And then they ask the retirees
54:12
to stand up. And when two thirds of your
54:14
convention floor stands up as retirees, you know, it's
54:18
kind of disheartening in a way. I
54:20
mean, it's nice that we've got some awesome retirees
54:23
that fight for what's going on now. But
54:25
we have some that are just really past their prime.
54:29
Yeah, I think there's definitely
54:30
space. I think it's really good
54:32
thing that we have, sounds like it's the same in that
54:35
NRLCA as well. But in the NLC, we have
54:37
retiree members that you can continue to pay dues.
54:40
I think it's really cheap.
54:41
It's like five bucks a month or
54:42
something. I think that's a good thing.
54:49
I think we have a lot to
54:50
learn. You know, if you've been active
54:52
in the union for a long time, arguably you have a
54:55
lot of knowledge and yet can be used for good. And
54:57
that can be used to be passed down to new emerging
55:00
generations of activists and active active union members.
55:04
But if the majority of a union
55:07
meeting is retirees, that then the union isn't, I
55:10
think, fully representing the act of carriers. And
55:12
I think that can be that imbalance can create
55:15
problems. Because maybe not everyone's aware
55:18
of the current issues. And so I think there needs to
55:20
be a combination of the knowledge and the experience
55:23
of retiree members or older union members who've been
55:27
around for a long time. But
55:28
that needs to be combined with the energy of young
55:30
members and needs to be used to help develop a new
55:34
layer of leadership and new layer of active members.
55:37
And so I think, if that gets
55:38
thrown out of balance one way or the other, that's
55:41
not, that isn't super healthy for a union. But
55:44
if you can find that balance, I think that can
55:45
be really actually beneficial for the union as
55:48
a whole. I have to agree with you on
55:50
that one. I definitely, I feel that
55:52
like so we have some awesome retirees that are
55:54
fighting the good fight. But
55:55
at the same time, I think we have some that are just
55:58
taking a place that could be somebody that is
56:02
currently carrying, whether it's a leave replacement or
56:05
a full time carrier that wants to be involved. But
56:08
unfortunately, because again, it comes down to delegate
56:11
ballots in name recognition. You
56:13
know, they made up their name that they recognize so
56:15
they don't get as many votes as the person that's
56:17
been retired for 10, 15 years and is still active,
56:20
sort of active, I want to say. You
56:24
know what I mean? It's, that's where the
56:27
disheartening comes in is that when you have that
56:30
many retirees that are going just to go visit
56:33
with their friends that that's the only time of
56:35
year that they see them. It's
56:40
now you're doing it on Union Dime. Very
56:42
yeah, I could see how that would be a problem. Yeah.
56:45
What's one message that you could give rural carriers
56:49
to not only benefit your movement, but to engage
56:54
them in starting their own movement for the rural
56:57
side? What would you tell them? Yeah,
57:00
I would say I would love to see a similar movement
57:03
start. You know, what's happening in
57:05
any else is really exciting. We
57:06
still have a long ways to go. I
57:08
think we're on the right path and we've taken really
57:10
important steps in that direction. We
57:11
still have a long ways to go. I
57:12
think I would love to see a similar movement in the
57:16
NRLCA and APWU and the Male Hinders Union. I
57:19
want to see this, you know, I would love to see
57:21
this in all the postal unions. I
57:22
think it would only be beneficial for all of us
57:24
fighting for reform, fighting for more fighting
57:27
unions, fighting for change. It
57:29
would benefit us all. We're,
57:31
you know, there's a similar movement in each of the
57:34
unions that we can work together on common goals
57:37
and get organized and fight back. And
57:39
so I would say, you know, it's not like, I would say
57:42
rural carriers find, you know, find what are the
57:45
main issues that impact rural carriers' lives? Like,
57:48
what do people want to get organized around? What
57:50
do people want to fight around? And
57:51
I think find those things and try to get organized
57:54
around them, whether it's resolutions for the
57:57
convention or whether it's workroom floor issues that,
58:00
you know, United Me Scan that you can give voice to
58:03
the way Corey has given a really, really important
58:06
voice from Ada Arbitration for the workroom floor
58:08
issues and private issues of the union in the NALC.
58:13
Like, find those things and try
58:14
to get organized around them. I
58:16
don't think you can sort of copy and paste
58:17
everything, but, you know, hey, our rural carriers
58:20
pissed off about closed bargaining. Do
58:23
you think you could start a movement for open
58:25
bargaining in the rural carriers' union? I
58:26
think that'd be fantastic. But,
58:28
you know, maybe there's other issues that are more
58:30
important. I would say, yeah, you know,
58:32
I would definitely say I would love to see reform
58:35
movements and organizing amongst the rank -of -file
58:39
membership in the rural carriers' union. It
58:42
would only benefit us in the NALC, as well as
58:44
benefiting yourselves. I was just looking to see if
58:48
there was any other questions in here real
58:50
quick. UAW figured out how to time
58:52
their contract negotiations with the Big Three
58:55
simultaneously. Would it be as advantageous to
58:59
all postal union to time their contract negotiations
59:02
to coincide at the exact same time? I
59:05
think we kind of touched on that a little bit. I
59:08
don't know if you wanted to re -dolve into that or
59:11
elaborate a little more on that. Yeah,
59:14
we did talk about it a little bit, but yeah, I
59:15
would say yes. I think that I absolutely
59:17
agree. We used bargain together. I
59:20
think, unfortunately, management was able to sort
59:22
of use divide and conquer tactics to say, oh, if you
59:25
negotiate separately, then you can bargain for more
59:29
because you don't want to be with them because if
59:31
you're with them, then you might make less because
59:33
whatever. No, I think that that is a
59:37
divide and conquer tactic that was effectively used
59:38
against the postal unions. And
59:40
I think we are weaker because of it. I
59:43
would absolutely argue and fight for us timing up our
59:48
contracts so that at the same time that when you're
59:51
in contract negotiations, leverage and building power
59:54
and mobilizing the workers at the postal service, that
59:59
is where our strength would come from. And
1:00:02
I think if we have all four unions putting pressure
1:00:06
and using that leverage against the service at the
1:00:10
same time, it would only benefit us. Would
1:00:12
a push for public information spread help?
1:00:15
Like at the street level, most
1:00:16
citizens support their usual carrier. Yeah,
1:00:19
do you mean like with getting information about
1:00:22
what we're fighting for out in public? Would
1:00:24
that help, is that what you're asking? I
1:00:26
think that's what the question is. Would
1:00:27
a push for public information spread help?
1:00:30
Yeah, I think so. I
1:00:31
mean, again, we're a public institution. We're
1:00:34
a public sector workers. We provide us a service to
1:00:39
the American public. We need public support for
1:00:43
this stuff. And I think getting, I think
1:00:46
everyone working class people across the country
1:00:49
are all facing the rising cost of living. They're
1:00:52
facing the effects, really detrimental effects of
1:00:55
inflation where prices are almost 20 % higher than
1:00:59
they were in 2019, where fuel, gas prices are like
1:01:02
30 % higher than they were in 2019. Like
1:01:04
everyone's feeling that if we go out, and what I've
1:01:07
seen especially over the last year is when workers
1:01:09
and unions go out and say, this is unacceptable, we
1:01:13
are going to fight, we're going to get organized,
1:01:15
we're going to fight for the raises that we deserve.
1:01:17
Because if we don't make more than
1:01:18
20 % raises, we're taking pay cuts. That's
1:01:21
unacceptable. We want to fight for better
1:01:23
wages, better working conditions. That
1:01:24
will make people, I think that all inspire people and
1:01:27
that will have a lot of public support and that
1:01:29
will only help us with negotiations. Postal
1:01:31
service and postal workers are one of the highest
1:01:33
highly rated, one of the highest approval ratings of
1:01:37
any government agency. I can just imagine in a
1:01:41
situation like that, I could just go around, while
1:01:44
I'm doing my route, I chat with people, is there out
1:01:47
on their porch or front desks, businesses, and just
1:01:52
let them know what we're fighting for. I
1:01:53
guarantee you that that sort of support would, we
1:01:56
could build it really easily and then we could
1:01:57
use that to sort of help leverage pressure against
1:02:00
management to help settle a contract sooner rather than
1:02:02
later with decent raises for workers and gains and
1:02:06
working conditions and other things. As
1:02:08
we're winding this down for the evening, what would be
1:02:11
the one thing, one statement you would make to
1:02:15
any carrier, rural carrier or city carrier, any
1:02:19
carrier about the benefits of being in the union if
1:02:24
they're currently non -DOOS paying? I
1:02:26
think your question is why should they sign up to
1:02:31
join and become a DOOS pay member? I
1:02:33
think ultimately the underlying basis for all
1:02:37
this is that workers alone without the protection of a
1:02:40
union, without the organization of a union,
1:02:42
we're rather atomized, we're separated from each other.
1:02:46
If you don't have a union at
1:02:47
all, you're at the will of the employer. You
1:02:50
could be fired basically for anything. That
1:02:52
is sort of like I think the most basic aspect of
1:02:54
how most people see the union, but I think it goes
1:02:56
beyond that. I think that the best way
1:03:00
that we can secure material gains and better wages and
1:03:04
better working conditions, the best way that workers
1:03:06
can do that is by being organized in unions. If
1:03:09
we have bad leadership, then we need to get
1:03:11
organized and fight for better leadership, reform
1:03:13
our unions, put forward resolutions and put forward
1:03:15
ideas that the union can take up and be proactive
1:03:19
and fight for the membership. That
1:03:21
is the only way that I think working class people
1:03:23
historically and even in modern day that we've been
1:03:26
able to get ahead, that we've been able to create
1:03:28
basic basics of a decent life. My
1:03:32
dad always said I grew up in a union house, but my
1:03:34
dad, he's worked in block plants his entire life and
1:03:38
he's worked just manual labor and he's always said
1:03:40
the only reason he taught us this growing up, the
1:03:44
only reason we have this house, the only reason we
1:03:45
have cars and we have the ability to provide a decent
1:03:48
life for you kids, me and my three, my two other
1:03:51
brothers, the only reason we have that is because of
1:03:53
the union. So he's instilled in me from
1:03:55
a very young age that the only reason working class
1:03:59
people have basic rights in the workplace, even if they
1:04:02
have been sort of whittled away here and there, is
1:04:04
because of unions. And I think the only way to
1:04:07
get back what we've what we've lost and the only
1:04:09
way to win more, whether it's rate, you know, wages,
1:04:12
working conditions, the only way to do that is to
1:04:15
organize and be a part of a union and fight to build
1:04:18
a stronger union, get more fighting leadership and get
1:04:22
the, you know, as much as possible, get the membership
1:04:24
involved, paying attention. I
1:04:26
think that's the only way forward. It's
1:04:28
the only way that we can really think about, you
1:04:30
know, our material lives better. I'm
1:04:32
gonna say I do want to say thank you for allowing
1:04:34
us the time to have you on and to spread your
1:04:37
word. And I do look forward to
1:04:40
hearing your name in the future for your national
1:04:42
award in one capacity or another. I
1:04:45
definitely appreciate it. I really appreciate you having
1:04:47
me on. I think any opportunity to
1:04:49
get the this message out. It's
1:04:51
the only way that this movement has been has been
1:04:54
built and has grown in the NALC. And
1:04:56
it's the only way that I think we're going to, I
1:04:59
think the best thing that we have is each other
1:05:00
where we can trade experiences and trade
1:05:02
lessons and learn from both wins and losses, you know,
1:05:07
victories and defeats and learn the right lessons and
1:05:10
sort of build a stronger labor movement overall,
1:05:13
build our stronger postal unions, and sort of trying,
1:05:17
ultimately, you know, this sounds kind of sappy, but
1:05:19
create the world that, you know, we want to live in
1:05:21
the world that I think our children, our grandchildren
1:05:23
deserve. So yeah, I think again, thank
1:05:25
you for having me on. I think this has been really
1:05:26
great. We appreciate you coming and
1:05:28
talking with us about this, because you've just shown
1:05:32
to our audience and to others that even though
1:05:37
you're for the city craft and we're the rural craft
1:05:40
at the end of the day, we're doing the same job.
1:05:43
So we should all be working
1:05:45
together, because at the end of the day, we're all
1:05:49
in this together. That's right. Yes,
1:05:50
again, I along with the other genome, we thank you
1:05:53
very much. And like I said, from the very
1:05:55
beginning, when I first served you with Corey and
1:05:58
then again, following up with Ron, it was like, you
1:06:01
know, he's onto something, you know, whether, you
1:06:04
know, yes, he's starting it on the NALC. This
1:06:07
is definitely something that we can turn around and
1:06:09
take some of these ideas to try to build better for
1:06:13
the NRLCA. We definitely appreciate you
1:06:16
being on here and definitely look forward to
1:06:18
working with you in the future as well. So,
1:06:21
Luli, all right, thanks everyone. Thank
1:06:23
you very much. And we will definitely update
1:06:27
everybody and Tyler will get with us and give us
1:06:31
the link for the June 2nd Zoom meetings for those of
1:06:34
you that wish to join. I do believe my calendar may
1:06:37
be free that weekend and I will definitely try and get
1:06:39
on there. Again, thank you, Tyler, and thank
1:06:42
you for those that joined us in listening and we're
1:06:46
going to send off for tonight. So
1:06:48
everybody, have a good rest of the week. All
1:06:49
right, take care, everyone. Thanks.