Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Annahstasia

Transcript

Annahstasia · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin, soaring, lush, and steeped in soul. Anastasia has a
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: voice that feels distant and intimate all at once. She
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: was scouted in high school for a career in pop music,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: but after some strange dealings, set out down the road
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: of self discovery. What she uncovered about herself and her
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: artistry you can hear on her serene new album Tether,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: easily one of my favorites this year. The album was
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: recorded live in studio and is stripped to the bone,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: allowing her voice in poetry to shine through, unencumbered by
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: any clumsy production. I spoke to Anastasia about her journey
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: through music to this album, which includes earning a four
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: year degree, opening for Lenny Kravitz and co starring and
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Kendrick Lamar's Luther music video. This is broken record, real musicians,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: real conversations. Mhmm. Before getting into the conversation, here's Anastasia
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: performing her song Satisfy Me.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Ah through the craven that you won't have they a
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: very good time.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: I wonder where you so you didn't have.
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: The answers all alone?
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: And you wonder treads so lightly over mountains.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: And rivers and valleys, dolls.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: And you under.
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: I gets sorry.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: As of history is in no way repeeding.
• 2:25
  Speaker 6: So.
• 2:31
  Speaker 5: Satisfied, me.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: Satisfying. How called you all a bad day?
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: I think you chose realized kind of game we have
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: to play. How am always looking for the upside?
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: Trying to stay off line? When for the world to breathe?
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: And you wonder why see sky? It's because of money
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: outside and I'm looking, and you wonder I dream so freely.
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: It's because I'm never ever really all that's sash fine.
• 3:49
  Speaker 5: Satisfied, silence, FI satisfied.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Oh man, you could say anything. Lyrics could mean anything,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: you know. Oh my god? When did you figure out
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: you had that voice? This voice, the voice that you have,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: it's like the most gorgeous voice.
• 4:40
  Speaker 6: Well, I mean it developed over years, but the first
• 4:43
  Speaker 6: time I realized I could sing somewhat was when I
• 4:48
  Speaker 6: was fourteen and I did a school talent show and
• 4:54
  Speaker 6: it was mostly everybody else's reaction. I was like, well
• 4:58
  Speaker 6: what And my voice has dropped much since then, So
• 5:03
  Speaker 6: I think that was the first time I realized I
• 5:05
  Speaker 6: had a tool that I could wield or begin to home.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Wow. So before the talent show at fourteen, were you
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: interested in singing. Did you sing a lot or no?
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: No.
• 5:18
  Speaker 6: My parents aren't musicians, and they're both in creative field.
• 5:22
  Speaker 6: They're they're in fashion. And I didn't really have any
• 5:26
  Speaker 6: particular interest in singing or music or anything. And the
• 5:32
  Speaker 6: way that I thought, oh, maybe, well I wonder if
• 5:35
  Speaker 6: I can sing is actually kind of messed up. I
• 5:39
  Speaker 6: went to this school that was predominantly white, and a
• 5:45
  Speaker 6: lot of the kids would bully me because probably was
• 5:47
  Speaker 6: the first black person that they had ever seen, and
• 5:52
  Speaker 6: one of the lung the many stereotypes that were shouted
• 5:56
  Speaker 6: at me. They were like, they would ask me to sing,
• 6:00
  Speaker 6: like at lunch or after school, and they call me
• 6:03
  Speaker 6: a jukebox, and they like, sing us a song, jukebox,
• 6:06
  Speaker 6: sing us a song. And of course I would never
• 6:09
  Speaker 6: sing for them, because you know, I'm not I'm not
• 6:12
  Speaker 6: a pantomime. And but for some reason, like became a
• 6:19
  Speaker 6: warm in my brain and I went home and I
• 6:23
  Speaker 6: I was like, let me just try and sing something.
• 6:27
  Speaker 6: So I think I first song I tried to sing
• 6:29
  Speaker 6: was Whitney Houston's I Want to Dance with Somebody of
• 6:33
  Speaker 6: the songs.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Ever, I love that song so much, But that's wild
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: that that was the first song you chose, I'll say
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: that you couldn't have picked the worst starting point. Though
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: it's all worked out.
• 6:45
  Speaker 6: It was very hard to sing and not in my
• 6:47
  Speaker 6: my range at all. Even at that point. It was
• 6:51
  Speaker 6: too high for me, and I think I I learned
• 6:55
  Speaker 6: it fully, but I was like, this doesn't feel quite right.
• 6:58
  Speaker 6: So the song I learned after that was Valerie Amy
• 7:01
  Speaker 6: white House's version, and that's the one I performed at
• 7:04
  Speaker 6: the talent show and you know, everybody their socks that
• 7:06
  Speaker 6: day because they're like, oh wait, she actually actually you
• 7:09
  Speaker 6: actually can't sing. And yeah, that's how I fell into that.
• 7:13
  Speaker 6: And then my music teachers at school kind of took
• 7:15
  Speaker 6: me under their wing and taught me vocal jazz. I
• 7:19
  Speaker 6: was a musical theater. It was just wherever I could
• 7:22
  Speaker 6: get some sort of music education through my school, I
• 7:25
  Speaker 6: did because there wasn't like money for extracurricular and stuff,
• 7:29
  Speaker 6: so I just learned that way for many years.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: What was your parents' reaction to you, to my voice,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: to your voice?
• 7:38
  Speaker 6: I think they were surprised. I can't remember. Oh yeah,
• 7:42
  Speaker 6: my dad, when I first started writing songs, I think
• 7:46
  Speaker 6: I played one for him and his reaction was eh,
• 7:50
  Speaker 6: you're pretty good. You should write twelve more. And I
• 7:53
  Speaker 6: was like, twelve, Like I just for one and it
• 7:56
  Speaker 6: felt like the hardest thing I've ever done. He's like, yeah,
• 8:00
  Speaker 6: but if you're serious about it, you should write twelve more.
• 8:03
  Speaker 6: And if you'd write twelve then I'll take you seriously.
• 8:06
  Speaker 6: Until then, I'm just going to assume this is a hobby.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 8:10
  Speaker 6: And so that was his reaction. My mom was a
• 8:12
  Speaker 6: lot more generally supportive, you know, showing up to any
• 8:16
  Speaker 6: performance that I had and always always being very proud
• 8:21
  Speaker 6: of me and smiling from the sidelines. But it wasn't
• 8:26
  Speaker 6: like they're not showbiz parents. They're not the type of
• 8:30
  Speaker 6: parents that like, just because I was good at something,
• 8:33
  Speaker 6: I was now suddenly like we're going to try and
• 8:35
  Speaker 6: you know, make a buck off this kid kind of energy.
• 8:38
  Speaker 6: So it was really left up to me if I
• 8:41
  Speaker 6: wanted to pursue that. They're like, oh, that's cool. You
• 8:43
  Speaker 6: have that gift that they left me to figure out
• 8:47
  Speaker 6: what to do with it.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Was that a typical response from your dad? Like that
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: kind of is that how he sort of oriented?
• 8:53
  Speaker 6: Ye, He's like a very serious artist. So he was like,
• 8:58
  Speaker 6: if any of my kids are going to be artists.
• 9:00
  Speaker 6: I need them to understand what that means, like what
• 9:03
  Speaker 6: that role in society and in the world is. What
• 9:06
  Speaker 6: it is to be an artist. It's not like a
• 9:09
  Speaker 6: it's not a light thing, it's not a casual thing.
• 9:11
  Speaker 6: It actually comes with a lot of responsibility to observe
• 9:14
  Speaker 6: and distill the world, and then also honing your craft
• 9:18
  Speaker 6: and your ability to execute an idea from thought to fruition.
• 9:23
  Speaker 6: It's like it's something that I was taught at a
• 9:27
  Speaker 6: young age and taught to take very seriously. So I
• 9:30
  Speaker 6: think it translated into my music to all my other mediums,
• 9:33
  Speaker 6: like that dedication to process and to craft. Yeah, just
• 9:38
  Speaker 6: so I can feel like I'm doing my job as
• 9:41
  Speaker 6: a artist.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: How old were you when you when you brought that
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: song to your parents?
• 9:45
  Speaker 6: It was fifteen.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Fifteen, So what do you do at fifteen? And says, right,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: did you write twelve more? Did you?
• 9:51
  Speaker 7: No?
• 9:51
  Speaker 6: I didn't write twelve more. I think I got to
• 9:53
  Speaker 6: like seven, but none of them were as good as
• 9:56
  Speaker 6: the first one. So I got discouraged. And then I
• 10:02
  Speaker 6: was doing covers with my friends and like a you know,
• 10:04
  Speaker 6: high school band kind of thing. We were singing a
• 10:07
  Speaker 6: lot of Bill Withers and read out Chili Peppers and
• 10:10
  Speaker 6: Pink Floyd and shit, and I just went into study mode.
• 10:16
  Speaker 6: I was like, actually, I don't know enough about writing
• 10:18
  Speaker 6: songs to be writing songs yet. That's what I realized.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Did you have an ideal at that time when you're
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: like fifteen sixteen of like what a songwriter was or
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: what a song a good song was?
• 10:30
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean my reference point was Bill Withers and
• 10:34
  Speaker 6: Nina Simone. Those are my two favorite songwriters at that chapter.
• 10:40
  Speaker 6: And so yeah, the bar was definitely said high.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: It's a high bar, but a good bar. That's a
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: good bar. Yeah, both, and both really different because Bill
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: is so Bill Withers was so matter of fact indirect,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: there was no and it wasn't about he had I mean,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: he'd every once in a while like have a vocal
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: run that'd be like stunning, but he was even his
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: delivery was pretty just matter of fact, folky. He didn't
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: want a lot of wisdom in it, you know. And
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Nina could just you know, great songs, great pick picked
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: great songs, but then also could similarly maybe to you
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: like she could also just sing nonsense and you're gonna
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: be even raptured, you know, it's.
• 11:20
  Speaker 6: Like, yeah, yeah, she had this like yeah, like you
• 11:24
  Speaker 6: put you put it very plainly. It's like Nina had
• 11:28
  Speaker 6: this magnetism and it was for me the way that
• 11:32
  Speaker 6: she performed the songs, that's what I was learning from her. Yeah,
• 11:36
  Speaker 6: because yes, a lot of the songs were picked as
• 11:38
  Speaker 6: she wasn't writing them, and her the way that her
• 11:44
  Speaker 6: voice made those songs come alive in a way that
• 11:46
  Speaker 6: when other artists sang them it just wasn't the same. Yeah.
• 11:51
  Speaker 6: I learned from her theatrics in that sense of the
• 11:54
  Speaker 6: importance of dynamics and tone and the presence that you
• 11:59
  Speaker 6: bring to a word or to a form. Yeah, the
• 12:02
  Speaker 6: emotion that you bring to it and what that actually
• 12:04
  Speaker 6: is when you break that down technically. And then with Bill,
• 12:09
  Speaker 6: where there's yeah, exactly, a very matter of fact storytelling,
• 12:13
  Speaker 6: like Okay, this is the history. Yeah, and there's not
• 12:17
  Speaker 6: a lot that gets in the way of hearing the story,
• 12:19
  Speaker 6: which I think is really important for songwriting. It's like
• 12:22
  Speaker 6: balancing the poetic language with here's what happened, Here's what
• 12:26
  Speaker 6: I want to tell you, and then delivering it in
• 12:29
  Speaker 6: a way where people feel your words as well as
• 12:31
  Speaker 6: hearing them.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think of yourself in any way it's theatrical?
• 12:36
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, gently so.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Gently so in life or only in song.
• 12:46
  Speaker 6: I think I live cinematically, Yeah, more cinema than the theater.
• 12:52
  Speaker 6: Theater I associate with like a dimension. It's like there's
• 12:55
  Speaker 6: so many there's planes, where a cinema is more five D.
• 12:59
  Speaker 6: It's an experience, or a theater. It's like you are
• 13:03
  Speaker 6: viewing something and there's a front stage, there's a backstage.
• 13:06
  Speaker 6: There's like literally layers, whereas life to me feels more
• 13:11
  Speaker 6: like a movie with infinite camera setups and and plot
• 13:17
  Speaker 6: lines and options.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: It's the magic. It's like, it's the magic you get
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: from a movie. That's what you feel in life.
• 13:24
  Speaker 6: That's what I feel in life. But that's what I's
• 13:25
  Speaker 6: what I pursue in life. I think it helps me,
• 13:28
  Speaker 6: Like as a songwriter, if you're you live in that
• 13:30
  Speaker 6: mentality of like your life is an unfolding story, then
• 13:33
  Speaker 6: you're constantly processing it in that way, it makes it
• 13:37
  Speaker 6: a lot easier to to condense. Or when you're hearing
• 13:42
  Speaker 6: somebody else's story, or you're you're witnessing somebody else goes
• 13:46
  Speaker 6: through something and you you immediately put it in that framework.
• 13:49
  Speaker 6: But then that requires, yeah, a certain propensity for drama,
• 13:54
  Speaker 6: not in the like toxic sense, but in the sense that,
• 13:57
  Speaker 6: like the contrasts that are naturally there in life are
• 14:01
  Speaker 6: a lot to chew on, and if you open your
• 14:04
  Speaker 6: heart to like feeling all of it, it is quite intense.
• 14:08
  Speaker 6: It's quite intense, and up and down mountains valleys. It's
• 14:11
  Speaker 6: it is theatrical without even adding much to it or
• 14:17
  Speaker 6: doing much to make it so right.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: I've been thinking about that a lot myself in general,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Like the drama is a better way. I was thinking
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: of theatrics myself, but drama is a better way I
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: think of explaining it. You hit on something more interesting.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: But Nina, so Nina as this person who could be
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: simultaneously dramatic or theatrical but also like impossibly cool at
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: the same time. It's a really hard balance, and I
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: think I worry even for myself, but in general that
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: in the quest to be cool, we've lost what it
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: is to be dramatic and the actual and there's a
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: lot of fun in that. You know, there's a lot
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: of music and music especially when you lose that, there's
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: an element missing, and it is that formative elopment, the
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: way you say something versus just saying something, And there's
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: so much of that in you're saying, which I think
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: is why, like your album is so deeply resonant, you know,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: within not to put you on the spot, but it
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: just came out and I feel like no one's had
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: a bad word to say it, that's heard it, you know, yeah, yeah.
• 15:21
  Speaker 6: I mean I'd be interested to hear if they found one,
• 15:25
  Speaker 6: because so yeah, it's it's it was crafted with so
• 15:28
  Speaker 6: much consideration, so many, so many viewpoints, over so much time.
• 15:33
  Speaker 6: Not that I was making it in the desire to
• 15:36
  Speaker 6: please anyone, but my attempt was to make something that
• 15:39
  Speaker 6: felt so innately human that everybody could find themselves in it.
• 15:44
  Speaker 6: Joni Mitchell said once that if you if you listen
• 15:48
  Speaker 6: to a song and you see my face, and I failed,
• 15:51
  Speaker 6: but if you listen to a song and you feel
• 15:53
  Speaker 6: you see yourself, then I've done my job. And so
• 15:57
  Speaker 6: it's like that process of trying to remove my a
• 16:01
  Speaker 6: censortain level of my ego from the music. I think
• 16:04
  Speaker 6: it's what has led to the people resonating it with
• 16:07
  Speaker 6: it in this way, because it's not it's when they're
• 16:10
  Speaker 6: listening to it, they're hearing their own experience, in their
• 16:13
  Speaker 6: own story.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: How do you get there? How do you get to
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: the point where you can create something that's personal but
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: your ego isn't in it?
• 16:22
  Speaker 6: Oh, goes. I think back to that need with that
• 16:24
  Speaker 6: coolness that you were talking about in need to add
• 16:26
  Speaker 6: It's like when you do dive into the extreme extremities
• 16:31
  Speaker 6: of life, it also brings about a certain level of objectivity.
• 16:38
  Speaker 6: It's like it's like looking at a roaring river and
• 16:42
  Speaker 6: deciding to jump in that you have this agency and
• 16:47
  Speaker 6: you can decide to be outside of the river watching it,
• 16:49
  Speaker 6: or you can decide to be in the river, and
• 16:50
  Speaker 6: when you have the strength to do both, and you've
• 16:53
  Speaker 6: honed that strength over time to do both and not
• 16:55
  Speaker 6: get overwhelmed by being in the river and going with
• 16:57
  Speaker 6: the current and not being able to swim and just
• 16:59
  Speaker 6: being like, well, I trust this, I'm going and then
• 17:02
  Speaker 6: knowing when it's time to step out, I'm too exhausted.
• 17:05
  Speaker 6: I can't handle this. I have to sit back and
• 17:07
  Speaker 6: watch and observe the coolness. That's the calm, that's the objectivity,
• 17:12
  Speaker 6: that's the be here now of it all, Like I'm present.
• 17:17
  Speaker 6: Everything in this moment right now is fine. And with songwriting,
• 17:22
  Speaker 6: it's like there's so many different phases. And that's why
• 17:25
  Speaker 6: time is such an important ingredient in my work is
• 17:28
  Speaker 6: because the thing happens, life happens. You experience the heartbreak,
• 17:33
  Speaker 6: you experience, the trauma, you experience, the joy, the ecstasy,
• 17:37
  Speaker 6: and it might in that moment it inspires you. But
• 17:42
  Speaker 6: for me, at least, it isn'tn til months later that
• 17:44
  Speaker 6: I can distill it into language or into a melody,
• 17:47
  Speaker 6: into a song, and so then it comes out in
• 17:51
  Speaker 6: one of my You know, when I'm sitting on my
• 17:53
  Speaker 6: own practicing or writing. Usually while I'm practicing is when
• 17:56
  Speaker 6: the songs come and it comes through or recorded or
• 18:03
  Speaker 6: track in some way to reference it again, and then
• 18:07
  Speaker 6: I don't really touch it for a minute, and then
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: I come back to it and I'm like, Okay, what
• 18:12
  Speaker 6: was I saying there? And is what I'm saying fair?
• 18:15
  Speaker 6: Is it fair to the people involved? Have I considered
• 18:19
  Speaker 6: all sides? What's the lesson that I learned here? Like
• 18:23
  Speaker 6: I try and look at each experience, like how do
• 18:27
  Speaker 6: I take myself out of this? And if I take
• 18:30
  Speaker 6: myself out of this is there still a story here?
• 18:34
  Speaker 6: And that's what I try to do with all these records,
• 18:35
  Speaker 6: Like with Be Kind, like that was a if you
• 18:39
  Speaker 6: wanted to break down the song, it's the front half
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: is completely my life. It's little vignettes of my life
• 18:47
  Speaker 6: that were going on at that time. Super niche, super specific.
• 18:51
  Speaker 6: Looking at a pile of CDs under a tree. It's trash,
• 18:54
  Speaker 6: but there's something beautiful about the trash, like dancing for
• 18:58
  Speaker 6: three days straight to Moroccan music in July and New York,
• 19:01
  Speaker 6: like you know, sleeping on a couch and wishing that
• 19:05
  Speaker 6: I had this California King bed I didn't have to
• 19:08
  Speaker 6: worry about Bill, Like. There are all these little moments,
• 19:12
  Speaker 6: and I give you guys so much of my life
• 19:14
  Speaker 6: and my experience. But in those you see that time
• 19:18
  Speaker 6: that you struggle, You see that time that you like
• 19:20
  Speaker 6: let go and had fun. You see that time that
• 19:22
  Speaker 6: that you found the mundane so beautiful that it almost
• 19:25
  Speaker 6: made you cry. Because my experiences aren't unique to me.
• 19:30
  Speaker 6: They're just refractions of our group experience. And then I
• 19:34
  Speaker 6: zoom out and I say, and I deliver this mantra
• 19:38
  Speaker 6: that has absolutely nothing to do with me, which is
• 19:43
  Speaker 6: something that we've all been taught on some level, which
• 19:46
  Speaker 6: is like, I won't do unto you as you as
• 19:48
  Speaker 6: I don't want done unto me right, I want to
• 19:52
  Speaker 6: treat you with kindness because I want to receive kindness.
• 19:56
  Speaker 6: And I won't be heartless if you won't be heartless.
• 19:58
  Speaker 6: I won't be callous if you won't be callous. That
• 20:01
  Speaker 6: message is not it is not mine even it's it's
• 20:04
  Speaker 6: it's it's when I've learned growing up in church. It's
• 20:08
  Speaker 6: when I learned from multiple mentors and teachers of my life.
• 20:11
  Speaker 6: It's like something that I returned to through all the
• 20:14
  Speaker 6: noise of the front half of the song, all of
• 20:17
  Speaker 6: these niche experiences. It's like the common thread through it
• 20:21
  Speaker 6: is this human thing of Wait, actually, we're all here
• 20:25
  Speaker 6: together now to love and to care for each other,
• 20:31
  Speaker 6: and we just need to clear the noise and sit
• 20:33
  Speaker 6: and listen to it. There's no ego in that move,
• 20:39
  Speaker 6: but in that song, I kind of like dip in
• 20:42
  Speaker 6: through the ego and out the other side.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: That's like your way in is thing ego. We'll be
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: back with more from Anastasia after the break be kind.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: When you wrote the song, how done was it or
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: how much of that work to strip some of your
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: ego out of it. Did you have to do since
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: you brought that up as an example.
• 21:05
  Speaker 6: You know, not much, because I was quite humbled at
• 21:11
  Speaker 6: that point by my life experiences. I had just moved
• 21:15
  Speaker 6: back to California after trying to live in New York
• 21:17
  Speaker 6: for a few years, and New York just destroyed me mentally,
• 21:21
  Speaker 6: destroyed my health, Like I was not good. Oh, I
• 21:25
  Speaker 6: was not well, and I'd run back to California with
• 21:30
  Speaker 6: my tail between my legs. And yeah, I was sitting
• 21:35
  Speaker 6: in the quiet of valley home and the sun coming
• 21:42
  Speaker 6: through the window and gentle breeze of spring, and like
• 21:46
  Speaker 6: just such a sharp contrast to where I was the
• 21:49
  Speaker 6: noise and the bustle and the grit and the smog
• 21:52
  Speaker 6: and the uh and I don't know, the song just
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: came out. It came out, and the front half came
• 22:00
  Speaker 6: out because I was just like trying to purge that experience.
• 22:04
  Speaker 6: And then and then I literally said to myself, I'm like, okay,
• 22:09
  Speaker 6: stop complaining, and then the second half came out.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: But the city in the same sitting.
• 22:14
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I usually write my songs in one sitting two
• 22:19
  Speaker 6: at max, but not in any large swath of time
• 22:24
  Speaker 6: between the two, because it's like when it's coming through,
• 22:26
  Speaker 6: you have to catch it to kind of like catching fish.
• 22:29
  Speaker 6: They'res slippery and they might not come round again, so
• 22:32
  Speaker 6: you gotta when it comes through.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: What is practice look like for you said, a lot
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: of your writing comes from just out of practicing. What
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: is when do you practice? And what does that look
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: like for you?
• 22:43
  Speaker 6: You know, practice is a funny thing for a musician
• 22:45
  Speaker 6: who's become professional musician because then he's like, you actually
• 22:49
  Speaker 6: don't even time to practice anymore, which is what even
• 22:52
  Speaker 6: got you there in the first place, is all the practice.
• 22:55
  Speaker 6: So now I have to like carve out time, and
• 22:58
  Speaker 6: I haven't been so good at it, which is why
• 23:00
  Speaker 6: I haven't been writing that much. But what it just
• 23:04
  Speaker 6: looks like is practice. It's like just exploring the neck
• 23:08
  Speaker 6: of the guitar, seeing different finding different chords, finding different tunings,
• 23:13
  Speaker 6: finding different voicings, different melody lines. And then for me,
• 23:18
  Speaker 6: when I find a new melody line or I find
• 23:20
  Speaker 6: a new chord progression that almost directly inspires language. It's
• 23:25
  Speaker 6: like almost like a synesthesia, but with words like hearing
• 23:28
  Speaker 6: a sound and it reminds me of like a memory
• 23:30
  Speaker 6: or a moment or a color, and then I just
• 23:33
  Speaker 6: follow that I start describing it, and then it's like
• 23:36
  Speaker 6: then it's just like pulling the thread.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Is there any songs on the album that you found
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: the melody on the guitar before you found the words,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: before you found your voice around it.
• 23:50
  Speaker 6: Well, it all happens at once. I write all my
• 23:52
  Speaker 6: songs on the guitar by myself in my room. Yeah,
• 23:56
  Speaker 6: all of the songs were already written before I went
• 23:58
  Speaker 6: into record the album, and then I just taught everybody
• 24:01
  Speaker 6: the songs and we worked on the arrangement and recorded
• 24:05
  Speaker 6: their band arrangement. But every single song that I write
• 24:10
  Speaker 6: or put out is written in that way where it's
• 24:13
  Speaker 6: me in this moment of practice with my guitar and
• 24:19
  Speaker 6: they dance together the melody and my hands and the
• 24:25
  Speaker 6: words and the lyrics. It's not linear the process, and
• 24:30
  Speaker 6: sometimes it'll be like holes that need to be filled
• 24:35
  Speaker 6: where I'm not quite sure what I'm trying to say,
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: Like Villain was one of those. Like when Villain came through,
• 24:42
  Speaker 6: I wasn't just in a very angry place, and that
• 24:46
  Speaker 6: one it came the lyrics never changed. It came through
• 24:49
  Speaker 6: like that done, but when I revisited it, I was like, Okay, wait,
• 24:54
  Speaker 6: this isn't actually about my anger. Actually this is about
• 24:58
  Speaker 6: something else. And then over time the meaning of the
• 25:01
  Speaker 6: song evolved and that changed how I sung it wow,
• 25:05
  Speaker 6: and how I performed it, because at first, it's like
• 25:07
  Speaker 6: this angry song of like, just I don't want anything
• 25:10
  Speaker 6: that you left. It's kind of it's kind of like,
• 25:12
  Speaker 6: you know, all your stuff is in the closet. Taken
• 25:14
  Speaker 6: and go was the energy of when I wrote the song,
• 25:19
  Speaker 6: But by the time I tracked it over a year later,
• 25:23
  Speaker 6: it was like, oh, actually, the song is about taking
• 25:26
  Speaker 6: accountability for the shadow parts of yourself and the way
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: that you hurt others in the process of trying to
• 25:32
  Speaker 6: love them, and that there's a lot of forgiveness there
• 25:36
  Speaker 6: for yourself and for the other person, because it's not
• 25:39
  Speaker 6: that there was an effort, it's just that you didn't
• 25:42
  Speaker 6: have the tools right. And we like to craft all
• 25:45
  Speaker 6: these narratives about who did someone wrong and who's the
• 25:48
  Speaker 6: villain and who's the hero, and who's the victim and
• 25:51
  Speaker 6: who's the aggressor, and it's like, well, it's actually quite
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: most often very nuanced, and we exist in these polarities
• 26:04
  Speaker 6: and sometimes, like you, choosing to be the the victim
• 26:10
  Speaker 6: is a type of manipulation, and you know, vice versa.
• 26:15
  Speaker 6: And when you again you zoom out, you're like, oh,
• 26:20
  Speaker 6: if that actually freedom from this cycle is being okay
• 26:24
  Speaker 6: with having done harm and taking accountability of that. But
• 26:28
  Speaker 6: that is not where I started. When I wrote the song,
• 26:31
  Speaker 6: That is not where I was. I was fully in
• 26:33
  Speaker 6: petty zone, like you know, I just had nothing good
• 26:37
  Speaker 6: to say about this other person at that time. And
• 26:40
  Speaker 6: that's an example. I think of how the songs like
• 26:43
  Speaker 6: they come to me, but they teach me as I'm
• 26:47
  Speaker 6: living with them. Sometimes I don't even know what I'm
• 26:50
  Speaker 6: singing about, but the words are there, the song is there,
• 26:52
  Speaker 6: it's done, and the lesson I learned from it comes
• 26:56
  Speaker 6: much later.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Wow, the songs are teaching. The evolution of the song
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: is evolution of the thought process of the thing that
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: you're going through. Yeah, have you written a song? Maybe
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: not on this album because it's relatively new, But do
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: you have any songs that you've written that X amount
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: of years later or now that you you don't feel
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: so connected to or you don't.
• 27:17
  Speaker 6: You're like, h, that was yeah all the time, for
• 27:20
  Speaker 6: one that hasn't been sitting right with me has been power,
• 27:25
  Speaker 6: Which is funny because people want me to sing that
• 27:27
  Speaker 6: one all the time, and I think it's because it's it.
• 27:32
  Speaker 6: The song was at a point in my life where
• 27:36
  Speaker 6: I was playing the victim all the time, and to
• 27:40
  Speaker 6: be fair, there was a lot of shit going on
• 27:42
  Speaker 6: that was really unfair, and I was being exploited by
• 27:46
  Speaker 6: multiple industry factors and I didn't feel like I had
• 27:49
  Speaker 6: any power, and especially as a black woman, just like
• 27:54
  Speaker 6: seeing the way that I was being treated when and
• 27:57
  Speaker 6: then looking at my peers who are not black women,
• 28:00
  Speaker 6: and like, I don't see a difference in talent, So
• 28:05
  Speaker 6: what's going on here? And feeling powerless in that dynamic,
• 28:10
  Speaker 6: that's where I was writing that song from. But when
• 28:12
  Speaker 6: I sing it now, because I'm not in this place
• 28:15
  Speaker 6: of that type of victimization, self victimization. I'm in this
• 28:18
  Speaker 6: place of like what is for me is easeful, and
• 28:22
  Speaker 6: I don't need to fight for it. I don't need
• 28:24
  Speaker 6: to prove myself constantly, like I know who I am now,
• 28:28
  Speaker 6: And I wrote that song when I was like twenty
• 28:31
  Speaker 6: years old. I'm thirty now, So it's just there's been
• 28:35
  Speaker 6: so much time since that thought, and now when I
• 28:39
  Speaker 6: go to sing it, I'm like, I'm just like, you're
• 28:41
  Speaker 6: so silly, you're supposedly for thinking that. Yeah, and I
• 28:44
  Speaker 6: don't even want to finish the song, So it's like
• 28:48
  Speaker 6: I don't really relate to it anymore. But I understand
• 28:50
  Speaker 6: how for other people it's like they really need to
• 28:53
  Speaker 6: hear that, because everyone's been in that position where they
• 28:55
  Speaker 6: just feel like they cannot get a grasp on their
• 28:58
  Speaker 6: own power, their own like free will.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of powerless. I mean, there's a lot
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: of powerless people out there, you know, and an illusion.
• 29:09
  Speaker 6: It's an illusion that you're powerless.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Often so often. So I think you're right. I think
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: you're right, you know. I mean, you certainly seemed to
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: have figured out how to arrive where you wanted to
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: probably go most of the time. I mean, I don't
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: know a ton about you, but I mean you you
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: did get signed kind of early, and we're like, I mean,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: maybe you can just tell the story. I don't know.
• 29:32
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I was discovered at school in high school.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Performing arts.
• 29:37
  Speaker 6: High school is just a regular high school. College prep
• 29:41
  Speaker 6: school had a lot of bougie people going through there,
• 29:46
  Speaker 6: but it wasn't a performing arts school. And I was
• 29:51
  Speaker 6: standing outside in the carpool lane waiting for my folks,
• 29:54
  Speaker 6: and I was just singing to myself and somebody's parent
• 29:58
  Speaker 6: came and was sitting next to me, and I kind
• 30:01
  Speaker 6: of noticed him because I was like, he's sitting weirdly close,
• 30:04
  Speaker 6: but I was minding my business, kept singing my song.
• 30:07
  Speaker 6: Then after I was done singing, uh, he came up
• 30:11
  Speaker 6: to me and he was like, do you want to
• 30:13
  Speaker 6: be a pop star? It's like, what, who were you?
• 30:19
  Speaker 6: I was just like stranger, danger, it was this man.
• 30:24
  Speaker 6: And then he started asking me questions. He's like, do
• 30:26
  Speaker 6: you dance? Like how's your fashion sense? Like what you know?
• 30:29
  Speaker 6: Kind of music are you into? Do you like pop music?
• 30:32
  Speaker 6: And I was like, you should talk to my parents
• 30:34
  Speaker 6: because ye like he was like an old man, and
• 30:41
  Speaker 6: so he talked to my parents and he was very
• 30:44
  Speaker 6: serious about tracking a song with me, and I went
• 30:48
  Speaker 6: over to his house with my parents a few weeks
• 30:52
  Speaker 6: later and track the only song that I had written
• 30:54
  Speaker 6: at that point. So it was called what was it
• 31:00
  Speaker 6: called some? It was think it was called something.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: Something you don't know about me?
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: Is that?
• 31:08
  Speaker 6: Amo?
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: Then my bones I've been here before, you know me.
• 31:17
  Speaker 6: Sadly they owned the publishing on that and it's never
• 31:19
  Speaker 6: coming out.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: We won't pay him.
• 31:27
  Speaker 6: And yeah, that was the only song that I'd written
• 31:30
  Speaker 6: at that point, and I tracked it and he produced it,
• 31:34
  Speaker 6: and then the label was super jazz about it. They're like,
• 31:38
  Speaker 6: whoa this voice? Whoa this girl? Oh she's only seventeen?
• 31:42
  Speaker 6: Oh shit, okay, here we go.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: And did he was was it like a had he
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: built the popster?
• 31:50
  Speaker 6: No, it was like it was an imprint, And yes,
• 31:52
  Speaker 6: he kind of had. He he was like a big
• 31:54
  Speaker 6: producer for all that era of Disney that was like
• 31:57
  Speaker 6: the Cheetah Girls, Hillary Duff, like he was on all
• 32:01
  Speaker 6: of that.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: He had done all of that. But this is look
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: some time later, so he removed from that. But that
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: was his okay, okay.
• 32:06
  Speaker 6: That was his like claim to fame. And they had
• 32:11
  Speaker 6: another big artist on their on their label at that time,
• 32:14
  Speaker 6: who who had done quite well for herself as well,
• 32:17
  Speaker 6: and so it was legit like it was a legit thing.
• 32:21
  Speaker 6: It wasn't some like garage label, you know, they were
• 32:25
  Speaker 6: they were fully backed and it was all a thing.
• 32:28
  Speaker 6: But I, you know, didn't have money for a lower
• 32:32
  Speaker 6: proper lawyer, and you know, I fell into that trap
• 32:35
  Speaker 6: of like, oh, well, we'll cover your legal fees, like
• 32:37
  Speaker 6: it's all good. You know, we got you your friendly
• 32:40
  Speaker 6: neighborhood label. And I let them do that and ended
• 32:45
  Speaker 6: up in a contract that was really really suffocating and
• 32:49
  Speaker 6: and quite quite intense and should be illegal. And I
• 32:55
  Speaker 6: didn't really it didn't turn sour till about two years
• 32:57
  Speaker 6: after that point. I was learning to write. I was
• 33:00
  Speaker 6: writing with all of these amazing top liners and a
• 33:04
  Speaker 6: few Motown folks who were still around, and every day
• 33:07
  Speaker 6: we would just sit at the piano and write songs.
• 33:09
  Speaker 6: And that's how I like learned how to really craft
• 33:12
  Speaker 6: a song, very meticulously a pop song.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: And you would bring an idea, I would write it.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: I would write it.
• 33:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I would write every song, okay, but he would
• 33:23
  Speaker 6: help me like craft melody and hook and and all
• 33:26
  Speaker 6: these things and turn them into like traditional pop songs.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: That's interesting to experience at that time.
• 33:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was cool to get a
• 33:37
  Speaker 6: lesson in that and to have that mentorship and to
• 33:39
  Speaker 6: really stretch my ability in that way. And and and
• 33:44
  Speaker 6: I think that training is what still informs a lot
• 33:46
  Speaker 6: of my practice, like I've since like broken a lot
• 33:51
  Speaker 6: of the molds that I was taught. But with that knowledge,
• 33:55
  Speaker 6: you know, I think it's good to learn your basics
• 33:57
  Speaker 6: and then and then explore from there. So for me,
• 34:01
  Speaker 6: that was my basics, and you know, it was it
• 34:05
  Speaker 6: was fine up till the point. And then I when
• 34:07
  Speaker 6: I started to come into my own as an artist
• 34:11
  Speaker 6: and realized like, oh, here's what I want. Here's that's
• 34:14
  Speaker 6: when there was this deviation with the label system.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: When you were ready to move past the basics, breaks
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: of rules, exactly find your own voice.
• 34:23
  Speaker 6: Right then it became a problem and I was shelved,
• 34:28
  Speaker 6: and I didn't know what that was. I kept coming
• 34:31
  Speaker 6: to them with new music and new stuff, and they
• 34:34
  Speaker 6: were just they wouldn't even tell me of a shelve.
• 34:36
  Speaker 6: They would just keep being like, oh, yeah, you know,
• 34:38
  Speaker 6: we'll submit it. We'll see like maybe we can get
• 34:41
  Speaker 6: you something a budget, or maybe we can put it
• 34:42
  Speaker 6: out maybe maybe maybe maybe, And they just kept pushing
• 34:46
  Speaker 6: my boundaries like they were like, oh, you need to
• 34:48
  Speaker 6: drop out of school if you want us to think
• 34:50
  Speaker 6: you're taking this seriously. So I dropped it to college.
• 34:53
  Speaker 6: So you need to you need to be in sessions
• 34:55
  Speaker 6: every day, so I was like working three jobs on
• 34:57
  Speaker 6: top of going to sessions till three am, like I was.
• 35:00
  Speaker 6: I was so exhausted at one point, and I remember
• 35:03
  Speaker 6: coming home and I was living with my parents and crying,
• 35:07
  Speaker 6: and my mom and my dad were like, you know,
• 35:10
  Speaker 6: this is supposed to be fun, like music.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Is supposed to be fun.
• 35:15
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's like and it doesn't look like you're having
• 35:17
  Speaker 6: any fun. And for me, that was that you know,
• 35:22
  Speaker 6: realization point. But I was still so young, and I
• 35:24
  Speaker 6: was like, Okay, well maybe I need to make pop
• 35:26
  Speaker 6: music again because that was the last time this was
• 35:27
  Speaker 6: kind of fun. So that I did that, and then
• 35:31
  Speaker 6: the final straw was getting offered like an even somehow
• 35:34
  Speaker 6: more predatory deal for the album cycle, and I took
• 35:42
  Speaker 6: one look at that. My mom took one look at that,
• 35:44
  Speaker 6: and even as not being lawyers, she was like, there's
• 35:46
  Speaker 6: no way you're going to survive this. If you sign
• 35:49
  Speaker 6: this deal, I'm afraid you might off yourself because you're
• 35:52
  Speaker 6: already so depressed and you're so you're unfulfilled, you feel trapped,
• 35:57
  Speaker 6: and then you're going to sign a ten album deal. No, yeah, no,
• 36:01
  Speaker 6: you're getting on a plane and you're going back to
• 36:03
  Speaker 6: college tonight. Literally that day, I went back to Boston
• 36:08
  Speaker 6: to go back to Universe City, and I called the
• 36:09
  Speaker 6: label from there and it was like I'm quitting.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 36:12
  Speaker 6: And then they were like, okay, well, if you're quitting music,
• 36:14
  Speaker 6: then there's no need to let you out of your contract.
• 36:20
  Speaker 6: So and I didn't have any any rights to to
• 36:25
  Speaker 6: fight that, so I just ended up having to wait
• 36:28
  Speaker 6: till like, like you know, a while.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: So it's a weird experiences, a weird way to have
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: your college experience. Like that's just like a what what was?
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: And you you graduated college, right, so you did political
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: science in political science and were you just like did
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: you at a certain point imagine that that music as
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: a career was behind you?
• 36:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah? I mean when I when I when I went
• 36:57
  Speaker 6: to school, it was like I kind of just accepted
• 37:00
  Speaker 6: that I stopped playing guitar. I would sing occasionally in
• 37:06
  Speaker 6: like college bands and stuff, but I just was like, Okay,
• 37:11
  Speaker 6: this is a hobby. Like I don't even I don't
• 37:13
  Speaker 6: know how I'm men to get out of this deal.
• 37:15
  Speaker 6: I don't know how, Like they just completely cut off
• 37:19
  Speaker 6: my hands in a metaphorical sense to be able to
• 37:24
  Speaker 6: make music in a way that would even be sustainable
• 37:27
  Speaker 6: as a job or as like a livelihood. So it
• 37:31
  Speaker 6: was off the table for so long. So that's how
• 37:33
  Speaker 6: I got into my other mediums and other things. I
• 37:36
  Speaker 6: was passionate about sculpture, papermaking, cinema, photography, painting. I had
• 37:43
  Speaker 6: so many other creative outlets that music for a while.
• 37:47
  Speaker 6: Being on the back burner was fine, but it was
• 37:50
  Speaker 6: something that kept like knocking at the door. And I
• 37:54
  Speaker 6: never stopped making music. I just I just was constantly
• 37:59
  Speaker 6: readjusting my goals. And then by the time I was
• 38:02
  Speaker 6: out of that contract, I was like, Okay, I'm going
• 38:05
  Speaker 6: to do this independently and see how far I can
• 38:08
  Speaker 6: go because the major label system is so corrupt and
• 38:12
  Speaker 6: so sickle. Yeah, that for what I'm trying to build,
• 38:17
  Speaker 6: it doesn't make sense to engage with it at all.
• 38:21
  Speaker 6: I knew at that point that the type of music
• 38:23
  Speaker 6: I was trying to make was the type of music
• 38:25
  Speaker 6: that would be considered a classic in fifty years, and
• 38:30
  Speaker 6: that kind of music wasn't going to survive in the
• 38:32
  Speaker 6: in the cultural climate of you know, the twenty tens.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it just wasn't the pop music of the twenty
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: tens was not going to produce. Yeah.
• 38:42
  Speaker 6: No, And it's like maybe maybe in fifty years, we're
• 38:44
  Speaker 6: gonna we're gonna think of, like, I don't know, pink
• 38:47
  Speaker 6: Print as a classic record. I don't know, I don't know.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: It's a good record, but it's probably was never the
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: record you were going to make.
• 38:56
  Speaker 6: No, it's not the record I was ever going to
• 38:57
  Speaker 6: make it. It's a good record, and you know, it
• 39:01
  Speaker 6: was fun. It's fun exactly. And it's like maybe when
• 39:04
  Speaker 6: that comes on, when like we're all, you know, super
• 39:07
  Speaker 6: old and crusty, were like you back.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: In the day, I will already do that.
• 39:16
  Speaker 6: But I think that's a little different than like hearing
• 39:19
  Speaker 6: a Bill Withers record or hearing Anita record, And I
• 39:23
  Speaker 6: maybe that's just like future nostalgia kicking it.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: That's not the goal of you might get classics in
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: the pop industry these days, but it's not the goal.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: It's incidental, it's not like it's not the goal.
• 39:35
  Speaker 6: That's a good point.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you were you were smart to like observe
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: that and remove yourself from it.
• 39:42
  Speaker 6: Yeah, disengage. Yeah, and you know, it's like short term
• 39:45
  Speaker 6: gains over over long term legacy. It's not the music
• 39:50
  Speaker 6: industry this these days is not really in for a
• 39:52
  Speaker 6: long term legacy. They say they are, but the function
• 39:57
  Speaker 6: of what you see in the back end is that's
• 39:59
  Speaker 6: not the That's not the case at all.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: So in your parents both were in fashion, you you
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: also work in fashion? Used not anymore?
• 40:10
  Speaker 6: No, I quit modeling in twenty twenty two. Technically, like
• 40:14
  Speaker 6: for myself, I just stopped. Stop submitting for jobs, stop
• 40:21
  Speaker 6: doing the casting, stop doing the whole scene of it.
• 40:26
  Speaker 6: Occasionally things come through and if it makes sense and
• 40:30
  Speaker 6: I'll do it, but it's not like I'm no longer
• 40:34
  Speaker 6: engaging with fashion as a model, like just a face.
• 40:38
  Speaker 6: Somebody wants to engage with me as an artist, great,
• 40:41
  Speaker 6: I'm they're awesome, But fashion as a model from that
• 40:47
  Speaker 6: industry side, I just outgrew it.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Is that What was your relationship to fashion as a kid,
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: like with your parents being in it, was it like
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: you admired that they were in it and you wanted
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: to participate or was it a bit just that's their thing.
• 40:59
  Speaker 6: No, I actually wanted to be a fashion designer, and
• 41:01
  Speaker 6: my dad was like no, flat up thought out.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: He was like no, and what was his reason?
• 41:07
  Speaker 6: He's like this is one of the hardest careers you
• 41:11
  Speaker 6: could ever choose for yourself, So just I don't want
• 41:14
  Speaker 6: that for you. And then I chose music, which is
• 41:17
  Speaker 6: the second hardest, which is maybe the first hardest, I
• 41:20
  Speaker 6: would say, but I don't know. I think there maybe
• 41:23
  Speaker 6: neck and neck these days, but yeah, very very tough
• 41:27
  Speaker 6: industries to be in fashion and music, because you know,
• 41:32
  Speaker 6: there's a there's this aspect of scale that you need
• 41:35
  Speaker 6: to be quote successful in both and I don't Growing
• 41:41
  Speaker 6: up like, I was just so enamored with my parents'
• 41:45
  Speaker 6: work and their work ethic, their creativity, their ability to
• 41:49
  Speaker 6: like sculpt the body with fashion and and create something
• 41:56
  Speaker 6: from scratch to like beauty, and how they manufactured beauty
• 42:02
  Speaker 6: from their own vision. It was something that yeah, I
• 42:06
  Speaker 6: just knew that I wanted to be a part of.
• 42:08
  Speaker 6: Like I knew I wanted to manufacture beauty as well.
• 42:11
  Speaker 6: I wanted to pluck it out of our existence and
• 42:14
  Speaker 6: show it to people. However I was going to do that,
• 42:17
  Speaker 6: and it wasn't clear as a kid, but because I
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: had fashion designer parents, it's like, oh, I'll just be
• 42:22
  Speaker 6: a fashion designer, like because that's what you guys do.
• 42:25
  Speaker 6: And you're like no, be a doctor, be a lawyer,
• 42:29
  Speaker 6: anything but this. And yeah I'm anything but that.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, no, it's but you did, but you
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: did circle, you did come back to it at certain
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: point then I did. Yeah, is that like during college?
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Your college?
• 42:42
  Speaker 6: No, it was my accident. It was my accident. I didn't.
• 42:44
  Speaker 6: I didn't set out to be a model. I was
• 42:47
  Speaker 6: working at a gallery. I was an intern, and randomly
• 42:53
  Speaker 6: I helped. I got called that day to help a friend,
• 42:57
  Speaker 6: like with a shoot she was shooting for her brand.
• 43:00
  Speaker 6: She's like, hey, a model dropped out, like could you
• 43:02
  Speaker 6: just jump in? Like it's just a few shots. So
• 43:06
  Speaker 6: I told my boss and I was like, hey, is
• 43:07
  Speaker 6: it okay if I leave early today? And she's like yeah, yeah, fine, go.
• 43:11
  Speaker 6: So I went over to her house I did this shoot,
• 43:13
  Speaker 6: and at that shoot there was this makeup artist who
• 43:17
  Speaker 6: was saying that Nike had been looking for musicians for
• 43:21
  Speaker 6: an ad and I was like, oh, I'm a musician,
• 43:24
  Speaker 6: like I could do it, and she's like okay, yeah,
• 43:28
  Speaker 6: and I'll take a photo. I'll send it over. She
• 43:30
  Speaker 6: sent it over and then I got booked street cast
• 43:33
  Speaker 6: off of that, and Nike's notorious for street casting people
• 43:39
  Speaker 6: and underpaying them. So I think I got paid like
• 43:42
  Speaker 6: five hundred bucks for the shoot, which at that time
• 43:45
  Speaker 6: was a crazy money to me because I was like
• 43:47
  Speaker 6: in cafe jobs and making five hundred dollars every two weeks.
• 43:50
  Speaker 6: Like yeah, I was like one day, five hundred dollars
• 43:53
  Speaker 6: crazy and I was like, yeah, of course I'll be there.
• 43:59
  Speaker 6: So I did it and it was It was a
• 44:02
  Speaker 6: really fun, fun shoot day, had a great time that
• 44:06
  Speaker 6: ended up being an international billboard cam pain. Yeah. Yeah.
• 44:12
  Speaker 6: The severity of which I was underpaid is like criminal.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know what about I don't know
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: a thing about anything. Yeah, but I know that sounds
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: really good.
• 44:23
  Speaker 6: They really they really took advantage for sure. And I
• 44:28
  Speaker 6: was like in every subway, multiple billboards across New York,
• 44:33
  Speaker 6: La Paris, London, Turkey. My mom was in Australian. She
• 44:38
  Speaker 6: has a picture of me literally like twenty feet tall,
• 44:41
  Speaker 6: like everywhere everywhere, my face Nike. But you know, it
• 44:51
  Speaker 6: launched my modeling career.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: You did get more jobs, so they kept hiring me.
• 44:56
  Speaker 6: Actually, Nike was hiring me for like years after that. Uh,
• 45:01
  Speaker 6: you renegotiated, and I renegotiated once I learned what the
• 45:04
  Speaker 6: what the actual going rate was because I was doing
• 45:06
  Speaker 6: it independently because no modeling agencies would sign me. Yeah,
• 45:10
  Speaker 6: they just didn't see the vision right, and I wasn't
• 45:13
  Speaker 6: gonna force it upon them. I was like, whatever, I'm
• 45:15
  Speaker 6: booking jobs directly, it's fine. But eventually I did find
• 45:20
  Speaker 6: agents and then that became my main source of income
• 45:22
  Speaker 6: and allowed me to stay in the music game as
• 45:25
  Speaker 6: long as I have, because like, there's no money in music,
• 45:28
  Speaker 6: there's no If you're an artist and a singer, you're
• 45:32
  Speaker 6: in like one of the worst positions because you can't
• 45:35
  Speaker 6: really play for other people. You can't like like you're
• 45:39
  Speaker 6: you're so specific. It's like you can only do your thing.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Explain that for me at least.
• 45:44
  Speaker 6: It's like I don't I don't produce traditionally. I don't
• 45:49
  Speaker 6: like I can use DAWs, but I don't like using them.
• 45:52
  Speaker 6: I'm not the best at it, so it's like I'm
• 45:54
  Speaker 6: not doing that for other people, and I also don't
• 45:56
  Speaker 6: want to give the time to doing that for other people.
• 46:01
  Speaker 6: I wouldn't call myself a guitarist in the sense that
• 46:04
  Speaker 6: I can go and play other people's music with like
• 46:06
  Speaker 6: two hours notice and learn everything that quickly. Not a pianist.
• 46:10
  Speaker 6: I don't play any other instruments to that level of competency.
• 46:15
  Speaker 6: I could write for other people, but I am such
• 46:18
  Speaker 6: so personal about my writing that I don't really enjoy it.
• 46:24
  Speaker 6: So you've knocked off like any of the other income field, right,
• 46:29
  Speaker 6: And it's like I don't I don't really play covers.
• 46:32
  Speaker 6: So it's like wedding bands are out, Like there's just
• 46:37
  Speaker 6: no there was like no way for me to make
• 46:39
  Speaker 6: money musically unless I'm doing my own thing. And I
• 46:44
  Speaker 6: was so dedicated to my own thing and to figuring
• 46:47
  Speaker 6: out what that was that I wasn't interested in making
• 46:51
  Speaker 6: a musical career out of doing other people's things. I
• 46:54
  Speaker 6: just wasn't. And so making money for music and sustaining
• 46:57
  Speaker 6: myself off of it, it's it's it's a dream I
• 47:01
  Speaker 6: still haven't even realized because now even I'm I'm not
• 47:05
  Speaker 6: able to pay my bills off of music. And that's
• 47:10
  Speaker 6: the reality of the industry. That is a separate, long conversation.
• 47:15
  Speaker 6: But in the meantime, like fashion and commercial work has
• 47:20
  Speaker 6: like sustained me and allowed me to have enough free
• 47:24
  Speaker 6: time to be an artist.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna ask how this place. I mean,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: you probably just answered it, but I would like to
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: talk about I mean, you're I didn't even really realize
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: this until like i'd seen it, and then later I
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: heard the mute, and then it took me a long
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: time to put two and two together that you were
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: in Kendricks see their video?
• 47:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, super random?
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Like what was that? How did that happen?
• 47:55
  Speaker 6: How did it happen? I'm Corrina, a director. She is
• 47:58
  Speaker 6: a fan, and she came to a show I opened
• 48:01
  Speaker 6: for Charlotte Day Wilson a few years ago, and she
• 48:06
  Speaker 6: was at that show and she just remembered me, and
• 48:08
  Speaker 6: she DMed me on Instagram. She's like, hey, I don't
• 48:10
  Speaker 6: know if you remember me. We met the back stage
• 48:12
  Speaker 6: like two seconds. But I am directing this music video
• 48:15
  Speaker 6: and I want you to be a part of it.
• 48:18
  Speaker 6: And I was like, I don't really do other people's
• 48:20
  Speaker 6: music videos, like I'm not really a model anymore. She's
• 48:24
  Speaker 6: like no, no, no, just like please, like I'll send you
• 48:27
  Speaker 6: the treatment signed the NDA, like I think you're gonna
• 48:30
  Speaker 6: love this one.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: You didn't know who it was.
• 48:31
  Speaker 6: I didn't know who it was. No, she couldn't tell me,
• 48:33
  Speaker 6: and so I signed the NDA and then so then
• 48:36
  Speaker 6: she can send it over. She sends it over and
• 48:38
  Speaker 6: I see it's for Kendrick, and I'm like, oh shit, okay.
• 48:44
  Speaker 6: And I read through the treatments, A beautiful treatment, a
• 48:47
  Speaker 6: film about you know, intimacy and connection and longing and
• 48:52
  Speaker 6: yearning and like wanting to show up for someone and
• 48:57
  Speaker 6: not really quite knowing how yet, but like wanting to
• 49:00
  Speaker 6: give them the world, and I yeah, I just love
• 49:05
  Speaker 6: the concepts and I love that that I was being
• 49:07
  Speaker 6: considered for as a muse for that medium, that that feeling.
• 49:12
  Speaker 6: And then it almost all didn't happen because I was
• 49:15
  Speaker 6: I was out of town and there was like scheduling conflicts,
• 49:18
  Speaker 6: there was almost no way for me to get back
• 49:20
  Speaker 6: in time to shoot it. And then the LA fires happened.
• 49:24
  Speaker 6: The whole thing got canceled.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 49:26
  Speaker 6: Then a few months later they were able to bring
• 49:32
  Speaker 6: the production back up and they were like, hey about
• 49:34
  Speaker 6: you buy any chance like free and in LA and
• 49:36
  Speaker 6: I'm like, I am, okay, well you still be in it?
• 49:40
  Speaker 6: And I was like, yeah, I would love to and
• 49:42
  Speaker 6: it all. You know. I like to just take on
• 49:44
  Speaker 6: little side quests when I can, And that just seemed
• 49:47
  Speaker 6: like a fun thing to do.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: It was such a cool treatment and done so well
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: that it's like, I get why you would take this,
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: I mean beyond just like the thrill of it's like
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: it's the song is incredible and all that. It's it's
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: a great treatment.
• 49:58
  Speaker 6: It's really beautiful. I was really grateful to ask be
• 50:01
  Speaker 6: asked to act, And you know, it's something that I'm
• 50:04
  Speaker 6: like softly looking into, not looking into acting, but like
• 50:09
  Speaker 6: people have been asking me more and more and I'm
• 50:11
  Speaker 6: open to exploring it now. So it's nice to do
• 50:13
  Speaker 6: it softly in that way, no words.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: How'd you prep for it?
• 50:17
  Speaker 6: How'd I prep for it?
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: I didn't.
• 50:21
  Speaker 6: I didn't prep for it. It was all pretty like natural.
• 50:26
  Speaker 6: I mean, I come from a performance arts background. In college,
• 50:31
  Speaker 6: I had a company with a few other women where
• 50:36
  Speaker 6: we explored like dance and movement through silence and then
• 50:41
  Speaker 6: using our own bodies to compose sound for the pieces
• 50:46
  Speaker 6: like as they were going on. And a lot of
• 50:48
  Speaker 6: that practice was intense, like eye contact and staring into
• 50:52
  Speaker 6: each other's eyes and like understanding intimacy between dancers enough
• 50:58
  Speaker 6: to interpret each other's movements through through prolonged improvisation. So
• 51:04
  Speaker 6: it's like I have. I have like all of these
• 51:06
  Speaker 6: things in my life that have kind of prepared me
• 51:08
  Speaker 6: to show up and just like stare into a stranger's
• 51:10
  Speaker 6: eyes for six minutes in an elevator. It wasn't really
• 51:13
  Speaker 6: like a large task, And I didn't really care that
• 51:16
  Speaker 6: this is Kendrick because like I was raised to believe, Yah,
• 51:19
  Speaker 6: everybody's just a human being. So you know, I'm interfacing
• 51:23
  Speaker 6: with him as not as this person who's done all
• 51:26
  Speaker 6: of these amazing things, but just as another person. And
• 51:31
  Speaker 6: is something so vulnerable about sharing exchanging eye contact for
• 51:37
  Speaker 6: that amount of time. Doesn't matter who that person is,
• 51:39
  Speaker 6: you really have to just be there with them. So
• 51:44
  Speaker 6: I didn't feel like it needed much preparation aside from
• 51:47
  Speaker 6: you know, getting my braves redone and pulling up on time.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: Making sure your own point.
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's so you really that work in college
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: allowed you to feel like, allowed you to be ready
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: to because it's an interesting thing, like you're really having
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: to express something really only through body language, Yeah, which
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: is like that's a that's you know, way less tools
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: and you have available to you as a singer songwriter
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: or you.
• 52:15
  Speaker 6: Know, like kind of it's all the same it's all
• 52:17
  Speaker 6: the same, the subtleties with which I make the choices
• 52:20
  Speaker 6: to sing certain things, the same as how you show
• 52:24
  Speaker 6: up in your body and convey with like without words,
• 52:28
  Speaker 6: with just eyes and a few gestures. It's it's actually
• 52:32
  Speaker 6: all in the eyes most most storytelling.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: Really, I think. So even before you take it to
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: the stage, like before you like so even in the
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: recording process, are you are you aware of your body
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: in that way?
• 52:51
  Speaker 6: Yeah? Well, with recording, I often when I sing, I
• 52:54
  Speaker 6: close my eyes because I'm so aware of my body.
• 52:58
  Speaker 6: I'm pulling it out of my body. And I'm not
• 53:01
  Speaker 6: performing from the sense of like being perceived or filmed
• 53:04
  Speaker 6: or watched, but from the perspective of trying to channel
• 53:07
  Speaker 6: all of that that that that aspect of our humanity
• 53:12
  Speaker 6: that can like watch ourselves from the outside in. And
• 53:14
  Speaker 6: I'm cutting that sense off closing my eyes, and I'm
• 53:18
  Speaker 6: projecting it inward in order to deliver it with my voice,
• 53:22
  Speaker 6: just my voice, kind of like concentrating the energy.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: It's incredible. Just go back to your trajectory a little bit.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: You had that weird experience with that label, and you're
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: in a weird contract. You eventually start making some independent music.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: It sounds very different still from what you've just put out.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: It was good thinking of like Sacred uh, Sacred Bowl, Yeah,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: which is a really cool project, but it's really it's
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: just it's still not like was was is the music
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: you just made with Tether? Is that like was that
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: what you've been envisioning all along? Yeah?
• 54:05
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I remember with Sacred Bowl, I was really frustrated
• 54:08
  Speaker 6: because all these producers kept telling me that it was
• 54:11
  Speaker 6: too expensive to make music with live musicians. They're just like,
• 54:16
  Speaker 6: it's too expensive, it's too complicated, we don't have the
• 54:18
  Speaker 6: right room, and they're right, there are certain things that
• 54:20
  Speaker 6: you need to do that and we had, you know,
• 54:25
  Speaker 6: essentially a vocal boose at a closet and a bunch
• 54:28
  Speaker 6: of computers like in no money. So Sacred Bowl was
• 54:33
  Speaker 6: a beautiful product of a lot of hustle and grit,
• 54:37
  Speaker 6: Like we were just making music with what we had
• 54:40
  Speaker 6: and I'm proud of that. But my voice couldn't come
• 54:44
  Speaker 6: through because I was having to rely on these producers
• 54:50
  Speaker 6: to craft the sonics and the sound, and there was
• 54:54
  Speaker 6: so much in that collaboration that just got lost in translation,
• 54:58
  Speaker 6: and it didn't have enough room for my voice. There
• 55:00
  Speaker 6: was not I couldn't tell my stories how I wanted
• 55:03
  Speaker 6: to tell the stories. And when I was done with
• 55:08
  Speaker 6: Sacred Bull and I did that tour with Lendy Kravitz.
• 55:11
  Speaker 6: When I did the tour, I brought a band. I
• 55:15
  Speaker 6: was able to bring a band, and we did a
• 55:17
  Speaker 6: we did all rock arrangements of Sacred Bowl, and I
• 55:20
  Speaker 6: was like, I was freaking right. I was right, Like
• 55:23
  Speaker 6: the music makes sense in this context when there's a
• 55:26
  Speaker 6: band and there's room to like breathe and we can
• 55:29
  Speaker 6: like push and pull and like the songs themselves come alive.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so much more. There was a live version that
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: you I don't know if you band camp, Yeah, and
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: it's it's very different from.
• 55:42
  Speaker 6: Yeah, like it actually it has yet life in it.
• 55:45
  Speaker 6: And that's when I was a shift to me. I
• 55:48
  Speaker 6: was like, yeah, I'm just not going to waste my
• 55:49
  Speaker 6: time with producer projects anymore. Like I I can't. I
• 55:53
  Speaker 6: can't exist on the grid. I cannot fit in the grid.
• 55:57
  Speaker 6: So everything that I do now it's free time. It does.
• 55:59
  Speaker 6: There's no metronome. The metronome is us. We got one
• 56:03
  Speaker 6: built in so we don't really need a metronome. And
• 56:10
  Speaker 6: was my first foray into producing from that perspective, like, Okay,
• 56:16
  Speaker 6: what if I just teach real musicians at the real
• 56:19
  Speaker 6: room the songs, and then we discuss our choices and
• 56:22
  Speaker 6: then we go in there, we take it a few times,
• 56:24
  Speaker 6: one track through, one take through after one take, after
• 56:27
  Speaker 6: one take, and whichever the best take is makes it
• 56:30
  Speaker 6: on the record. And that's that's how they've been doing
• 56:34
  Speaker 6: music for a long ast time until we had computers
• 56:37
  Speaker 6: and all this fancy stuff, and so even even there
• 56:43
  Speaker 6: was just then from that point a process of refinement
• 56:46
  Speaker 6: revival was like my first step in that direction. I
• 56:50
  Speaker 6: was still kind of finding my voice again after so
• 56:52
  Speaker 6: much trauma and psychological warfare and musically trying to find
• 56:59
  Speaker 6: my confidences as a as a producer, as a leader.
• 57:04
  Speaker 6: And by the time I got around to recording Surface Tension,
• 57:08
  Speaker 6: which we recorded at chendri La, that was like when
• 57:13
  Speaker 6: we really honed in on the sonic world, which was
• 57:17
  Speaker 6: just like the type of mic that we're going to use,
• 57:20
  Speaker 6: the type of room that we're going to be in,
• 57:22
  Speaker 6: the type of guitar we're going to use, and have
• 57:23
  Speaker 6: a mic on that guitar like bread and butter. Just
• 57:27
  Speaker 6: that kind of Minutia was the core, and then experimenting
• 57:33
  Speaker 6: on what can we fill the space with but very
• 57:36
  Speaker 6: tastefully so that was surface tensions experimentation. So by the
• 57:40
  Speaker 6: time we got to Tether and recording Tether, it was
• 57:43
  Speaker 6: like all of that was so honed in that when
• 57:46
  Speaker 6: we brought the band in it was like it wasn't easy.
• 57:52
  Speaker 6: There was still a lot of work and there's still
• 57:53
  Speaker 6: a lot of wielding and like talking to everyone crafting it.
• 57:56
  Speaker 6: But this but the between Jason and I, the way
• 57:59
  Speaker 6: that it was going to be recorded and engineered.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: It was just locked.
• 58:03
  Speaker 6: Yea, yeah. The sound, the sound was found at that point.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: I feel like your voice is first and foremost the
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: thing that's like, you know, wow. The arrangement for sure
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: is like the second thing that it's like, this is
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: beautifully arranged, you know, in the whorreas. I don't know,
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: that's so like I guess maybe people think about arrangements,
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: and people probably spend time arranging the records, but the
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: way this is arranged, it's just like it's it's really thoughtful.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: You don't even notice it, but when you start trying
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: to pay attention to do it, you're like, it's really
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: smartly done. You know, it's so cool.
• 58:40
  Speaker 6: Thank you.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: It's so cool.
• 58:41
  Speaker 6: Thank you. Yeah. It sounds like not as much work
• 58:44
  Speaker 6: as people think it is. It's like it's a lot
• 58:47
  Speaker 6: of me letting the people, choosing the right people and
• 58:49
  Speaker 6: then letting them do what they do best. Yeah, that's
• 58:52
  Speaker 6: the way I like to produce things.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: Why do it any other way?
• 58:56
  Speaker 6: It's just easier that way. It's like, I don't I
• 58:58
  Speaker 6: don't have all the knowledge. I'm going to go to
• 59:00
  Speaker 6: the person who spent the last fifteen years learning their instrument. Yeah,
• 59:04
  Speaker 6: not try and tell them what to do.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you had a play drum stress my good
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: love it.
• 59:09
  Speaker 6: I am. He's my favorite drummer ever. He's actually ruined
• 59:12
  Speaker 6: all drummers for me, because if abe isn't free, I
• 59:15
  Speaker 6: just would rather not have drums.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: He's really good. He's a beautiful human. I want to
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: play another song.
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: You get.
• 59:43
  Speaker 6: There's a.
• 59:47
  Speaker 4: He CD in the corner over there, sharing the ground
• 59:54
  Speaker 4: with the t.
• 59:55
  Speaker 5: That's the saving.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: The surrounding boys and hunger than us there.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 6: Get on Die.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: I find it a different His spile of the movie.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 5: Crow is lying there.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 8: I dance three days I does three days.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 6: I died three days in the arms of my lover,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 6: and I met in the growing.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: Face holds onto my growing movie, and I deserve to
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: rest in a California.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: Cum maid of my arms outstretched and my dreams reading
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: from my.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 6: Live into the sheets.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: Instead, help me beyond choose.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 4: You lost surrounding son Ali, He's surrounding in a lamb
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 4: that I deserted.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: For a better end.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 4: How does a better hand?
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 5: You see? Hi, never learn.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 6: To be kind?
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: But I hear you get used.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: To the pain, heart break again then again.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 8: H m hmmm mm hmmm mm hmm.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 4: I won't be heartless, so don't be hatless with me.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 4: I won't be Calns, so don't be callous with me.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: I won't be Carolins, so don't be carless with me.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: I won't be calds. S told me be Calas, who
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 4: won't be heartins? So this is.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 7: Holy Calais. Son't hang me call is? How becaid.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 5: Fun?
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 8: Be okay?
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: How becad.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: Fun?
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: Be fu?
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: Be you me? This is a real magic in your
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: This is a real magic in your performances. It's unbelievable.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: You mentioned briefly Leney took you on tour. Yea has
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: he heard this record.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 6: Yes, actually, and when he got when we were in
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 6: mastering process, I finalized the masters in his basement. Nice,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 6: so he has heard this record and he was listening
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 6: to it and he just kept going, girl, what the fuck?
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah, after every song you're.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: Like, what the yeah, that's that's the right response. It's
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: it's it's uh, you're like a body high listening, you know.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: And that's what I was experienced listening yesterday doing right now.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: It's incredible and it's so different from like that Lenny
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: heard something in you Earth. I mean, it's so beyond
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: You're so beyond where he found you. You know, the
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: this is it's just like whoa. You know, it's the
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: only intelligible thing I have to say. And then thank
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: you so much for for for sharing by yourself and
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: your music, and thank you.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a pleasure. Thanks for your question.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. An episode description, you'll find a link to a
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: playlist of some of the songs we talked about in
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: this episode, and also to Anastasia's album. Be sure to
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: check out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast to
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: see all of our video interviews, and be sure to
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod You
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolliday.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to
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• 1:06:35
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• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: and if you like this show, please remember to share, rate,
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: and review us on your podcast app. Our theme Music's
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: back Anny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.