Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Treasured | a conversation with Courtney DeFeo

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Treasured | a conversation with Courtney DeFeo · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hi friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted podcast.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: It means so much to have you choose to take this conversation along with you today.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Amy Wicks, your host, and here at Simply Wholehearted, we provide perspective, purpose, and plans to help you love God, love others, and live your best life.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Today's guest is Courtney DeFeo.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: She is well known for her ABC scripture cards and a fantastic book called In This House We Will Giggle.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that title great?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: She is a mom of two delightful girls.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: So Courtney has a passion for reaching the next generation in mind, body, and spirit.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: And she believes this begins in her home.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Her new treasured study is a six-session experience for moms and between daughters.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: The study covers identity, body, emotions, friendship, technology, and faith.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it initiates meaningful connection and purposeful conversations between mom and daughters.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Of course you knew I was gonna like this.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: My girls and I have just begun this study ourselves, and I can say if you're a mom of a girl between the ages of 9 to 13, you'll want to get your hands on this material.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: I've admired Courtney's work since I first came across her content, and we both adamantly agree.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: The Enneagram should not be something we obsess about or let define us.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're new to the Enneagram and you need to know the best place to begin, head on over to simply wholeharder.com where you can find my Enneagram Quick Start Guide and my one-page summary, which gives you an overview of all nine Enneagram types.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: This might be a perfect way to begin your journey.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And now you can also learn about what the Enneagram can do for you, what it is, and what it's not, and all nine Enneagram types in less than 30 minutes.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: My Easy Enneagram 101 course is only the price of a fancy cup of coffee, and you'll be confident you are on the right track of your Enneagram journey.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Stay tuned for lots more Easy Enneagram material.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: And a shout out to Jessamine and Rue for the lovely music you are hearing in the background.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now here's my conversation with Courtney DeFail.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, I have read and I have on my shelf here here in this house we will giggle.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And which such is such a clever title.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's so and now I can add to it this treasured set.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited to hear about it.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: I want to know the story behind it, kind of your journey in writing this really unique and different curriculum for teens and their moms to go through.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you could encapsulate that broken hearted moment, maybe that led to the wholehearted decision to get these words on paper and to share it with others.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm gonna try to do my best to make this short.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: You may have to edit this because it was, you know, like a 15-year-old journey.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: If you go back to my career at Chick-fil-A corporate headquarters in Atlanta, it was really a place where we were really mentored and um really poured into as um leaders.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: And even from the earliest days of my career there, I would be able to get in groups and tables where there would just be people older and wiser than me pouring into me.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I wasn't even married yet.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I really took it seriously.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, these are some of the best and brightest people in marketing and and in the world, and I just soaked it up.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: I was like a sponge.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: It was awesome.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: So the one morning we were in a meeting, and David Salyers was the vice president of marketing, and he invited me into a morning book club, and so I was like, Yes, I'll be there.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I was you know, again, not married yet.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, I have nothing else to do.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: I was there, and now looking back, some of the people that are around that table.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: So Jeff Henderson was there, who was who is now a pastor in the North Point Ministries world, and Lauren um Bricken was there, who's now Chris Tomlin's wife, and so all these are the players that were around that.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: So interesting.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but uh, so we were just all sitting there, we read books about Mother Teresa and different that.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: But one of the books we read was Nurturing a The Leader Within Your Child by Tim Elmore.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: And because of who David was, he's like, Let's have Tim come in.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, uh what?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: So the author comes in and he starts talking to us about what he did with his children as they were coming of age.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it just got me like, I was like awestruck by this idea.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: I had never really thought about, I wasn't even a mom yet.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Again, I wasn't engaged.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: But he was talking about in the um Jewish culture how intentional they are about the Bometzvah.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: And about I'm probably saying that totally wrong.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think that's that's how I've grown up saying that anyway.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: But how amazing that these parties are and that they really pause and make it a big deal to go from little girl or little boy to growing up into womanhood or manhood and marking that moment.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like frozen in time.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: I would just remember this so vividly.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I wouldn't call it a broken-hearted moment.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: I would probably call it just this like aha moment where I was like, whenever I have kids, like I want to be so intentional that they just don't float through the transition, that I really mark it for them and I really am pouring it into them so they don't just figure it out on a whim because there's some pretty critical things.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: So if um I don't even know if that book's still in print, but I encourage you to check it out.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm going to.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: We'll put it in the show notes.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: I hope it is because it really some of the things he did about pulling in key mentors and having them speak wisdom and truth into the kids' lives at this key age.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so ironically, my daughter's turning 13 next week.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: And because of that conversation, I'm having key mentors and people write her letters and put it in a treasure box, which is part of your program.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: So full circle, full circle.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: But fast forward, um, David Sawyers and Jeff Henderson went on to create a program called Champion Tribes for boys, their sons, uh, dads, and their sons.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's called Champion Tribes.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's out there for fathers and sons.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so we've been friends over the years.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: David was still at Chick-fil-A, and Jeff went on to North Point.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: And after they were doing this for Father and his son, they said there's nothing out there like this for girls.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would say, no, no, no, I'm not ready because my girls at the time were so they were little.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: They were seven or four and two, you know.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I want to live at first.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so then mine started getting closer and closer to middle school.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, there's still, and again, there's great, I have dear friends with a lot of the authors in this space.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I love Sissy Goff, I love Lynn Cowell, I love Vicki Courtney.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: But for me, that particular like small group curriculum or a thing that moms could get around the groups with either a one-on-one mother-daughter or again, a small group curriculum, I was not finding what I needed personally.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I kept kind of shoving it, like, I'll do it later.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, and then I think we talked before the show that God just makes it clear when he's like, no, this keeps coming up.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's you, you gotta go for this.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: You can't shake it, right?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because not really a ha moment with the need really became, I would say, the brokenhearted moment when I started seeing my daughters and that these struggles are real and they're also very um consistent with what their friends are struggling with.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: So in the study, there's six areas of I would call struggle, six topics.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so we go at a place of a pain point for the moms, like uh identity is the first one, bodies, emotions, faith, technology, and friends.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: And if you ask any mom of a twin girl aged nine to thirteen, what are their daughters coming home crying about?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's around those topics and about a hundred more, but they're typically around those.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, friend broke my heart, I want an iPhone, I don't like my stomach or my hair or my legs, whatever it is.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: And they're not typically saying, like, I want more Jesus, but one of the big things is faith.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, how do you make this your own?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: So um, that's how it was birthed, was a long, long stirring in my heart and like a realization that like I don't go for this, and I know I have the skills and the background and then and the passion to make it happen.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: And thankfully Parent Q came alongside and made it it always felt bigger than me, and I was able to partner with an organization that made it 10 times better than I could have made it myself.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's a fantastic product just in the package of it, and um beginning this book with my own because I have two girls who are in the tween age, turning you know, 13 and 12 here soon, and those are the conversations we're having.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the deal, and speak to this as a mom, because you are um all those things you listed.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Can we just like raise our hands as moms and go, uh, we still have those issues too?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why sometimes I think they're even more painful that our girls are crying on our shoulder because we go, Yes, I understand.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even, you know, I I not only understand, but I also I felt the same way today.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I helped them prove that.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think that was one of the things as our team talked about it was realizing that moms could be even more impacted from this than the girls, maybe, because they're you're right, they're going, oh my gosh, I could have used this about 10 years ago or 20 years ago, as we talked about emotions.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so they're learning alongside their daughters to go, like, hey, have you been spinning out of control on your emotions and you don't know how to get them in control?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: Has anyone ever said to you that like crying is not bad?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's what you do when you're exploding with anger or what you do when you're overly emotional.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I think someone alongside, and I don't know how you grew up, but I had a really, really great mom.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and I thought everyone had a great mom.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: I thought people just sat down with their moms, they were super encouraging, they talked to them.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: And what I found when I went to college is I started sitting in dorm rooms and talking to other mom girls, they didn't have moms that were intentional that sat down with them and explained to them and gave them biblical context to life issues that are not gonna go away.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if we could just hand people treasured and say, this is now gonna be your solution, these are now poof, gone, and you checked it off the list.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, no, I'm sorry to say, these things are gonna stay with you, but they don't have to own you.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why it's called treasure to ground them in like this is your foundation.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: You are worthy, you are valuable, you are loved by someone that will never ever change.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: And the earlier we can ground them in that that truth of their being known and loved and accepted earlier, I think the those issues will bounce off of them a little bit easier.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: They won't go away.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what you said is I think the knowing that one, they're not alone, that their friends in the circle do um, you know, deal with that too, but also that their mom could get to a place where she's vulnerable with that and say, hey, in fourth grade, I had a moment where someone said this to me and it's really stuck with me.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or and I I want to pray through that.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: And or hey, last weekend I was in a bad mood because my jeans didn't sip, and I'm really mad that that freaked over into the way I treated you, you know.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that they need to see their moms as human and not this perfect got it all together because we're basically faking it, and that's not helping our daughters see that they can have places of struggle and they don't need to be perfect in any area.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's just not a realistic standard for them.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was interesting because a group of moms who've been sitting in my living room every week, last uh winter, we ended up diving into a topic that I have kind of called motherlessness or minding the gap.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of them, kind of like you said, we started talking about, you know, why we want to be mentored, what areas of growth that we want in our motherhood or in life in general, and really it was this huge gap that a lot of them had because their moms didn't know how to be a mom or they weren't available emotionally or physically or spiritually.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so most moms today are just winging it, and we're winging it in a way that, like you said, we think it has to, you know, come into perfection and you know it has to look a certain way, but really, I mean, this is why we need resources like this and from parenting cue and all of that, because most of us weren't parented or mothered well ourselves, and we have no idea what we're doing.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: We want to do it really well, but we need help.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: We need not only help to heal that that wound in our life, but we also need practical, you know, equipping like this.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'll tell you that I am by the way, newsflash, I don't know what I'm doing either.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: So by the way, it's like the girl leading you has no idea.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm wisdom, I'm reaching out to experts.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: But I what I do love about parent cue is they study the middle school brain and they study like we spent more time on the questions because they love asking a question in a way that a middle middle schooler or um you know tween girl nine to thirteen is really what it's aimed for, that she'll understand it and she'll be and she'll be all feel safe enough to answer.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so those questions are gold.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's a study that's got a digital component to it that you could just do that with just your daughter or show the show her the videos, and there's just it we want it to be like a conversation starter, and that's what's so key is that we can feel overwhelmed.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say let's take the um topic of body.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's about 212 topics you could go through about body, and it feels so overwhelming that we stick our head in the sand and we just hug her and go, just okay, I love you, and we run.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like if someone gave you a question and you just listened, you're so far ahead of the game by just offering some safe communication and saying, Okay, they they worded it in a way I never would have thought of.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Or if you give her the video that someone else is saying it in a way that, like, okay, I didn't have the words because we freeze up thinking it's all on us, we're gonna say it the wrong way, we're gonna be the reason she has an eating disorder, and we get frozen.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm with you to say, like, I freak out too.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so I am shaking, going, Lord, go before me.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: I know these topics are too important, and my daughter's too important to skip this key transition and wait till she's a teenager when by the way, she does not want to hang out with you.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, my 13-year-old, almost 13-year-old, is like, please do not walk in for lunch.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: Do not walk in and pick me up, like driver.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: I just basically have her Uber driver.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is our new season, right?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, what is capture, like capture these years when they really think, you know, nine to thirteen, they think you're cool a little bit.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they really really do, you know, think what you're saying has some value, and they'll snuggle up with you for just a little bit longer.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's good.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Hal and Debbie Perkins did a conversation.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is like conversation, I don't know, 127, right?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think they did a conversation, it was 17, I believe.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was really a point and moment in kind of on all the conversations, and they're just parents who raised four really amazing kids and they speak on the topic of parenting.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: But their key, my key takeaway was just ask questions when you don't need to say or know what to say, you don't have to say anything, you just ask questions and try to avoid the yes-no ones, but yeah, but to your point, it's more about asking them than having all the right things to say.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which is hard for me.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a talker.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: You and me both, and we like to probably, if you're anything like me, we like to find resolution in the conversation, and that's the sticky point of motherhood and this age.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's not always resolution in the moment.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: It takes it's a process, it takes time to have it really come full circle.
• 15:39
  unknown: Yeah.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, as you know, we really like to talk anneagram around here.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm kind of curious.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know your Aneagram type?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if you do, how do you think it's maybe informed or helped you understand some of your motherhood and how you've approached it?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, maybe you can help me on the side with this.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: I've read enough to be dangerous.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: I've read several books and I've taken the quick test and certainly could do a more in-depth test, but I I really resonate to the point where my brother said, When you get so embarrassed that you want to take your shirt off like you're flushed, is that you might be on the subject.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: The ones that make me feel like when I read the unhealthy sides, it's like someone read my mail two and three.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm either a two with a three-wing or a three with a two-wing.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I resonate so strongly with both of those that I'm having trouble figuring out which one came first, like the chicken or the eggs.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm starting to figure out, but I would say for purposes today's conversation, let's lead it with the two and know that I've got a like a super high strong um three.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: So like in an hour I could put out like eight new products and go on every day.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds like you.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Shark Tank.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Shark Tank is like my favorite show.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: That tells me anything.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Totally, yep.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think for and that's one of those things that for me I was in the same boat.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: I for a year was pretty sure I was a two.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it took time, it really took exploring my story when I was young to go back to really my true self because I I'm in the camp that thinks we are born with a dominant type.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: We have all nine types, we lead with one dominant type, and then over nurture, we develop wings and different attributes that take on the different characteristics, which is the ultimate goal, is to grow in all nine types and to, you know, integrate all the intelligence centers and all that sort of stuff.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, that's kind of where I always say, I'm like, you actually are way ahead of most people where you've got two types that you're looking at, and it's either a wing either way.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, but I'm with you on that.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think you do know you're the type when you get super embarrassed and thinking, I don't want anyone to read this or know this about me.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: Or you're like everybody else is like, yeah, Court, we've been we've been dealing with that for years.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I do think it's um for people like me, and maybe I'm a I'm a pretty sensitive type.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: I do think it's we can beat ourselves up.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I encourage my daughters, you know, to say, like when they look at who they are, we typically go to our faults and say, no, there's some pretty don't just look at your weaknesses.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: There's a long list of great things that a two and a three can bring to the table.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, is it great to look at those unhealthy sides and manage that?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: But don't forget the wiring of a two and a three and say, like, I bring some stuff to the table that not a lot of people do, and that I just kind of like discount that like it comes easy for me, and God's been able to do some things for me in this world that I discount and just shrug off.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, no, the way that I've just been able to do that is God's wiring.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that we need to be careful as women, not to just like go, oh yeah, so you're threeness.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where I think it's like, come on, let's not rip on each other, let's build each other up.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: And our girls, our our young girls need to we need to start doing the same for our young girls because they're in a high season of doubt, and as grown women do the same thing.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: We're in a high season of doubt in our identity, doubt in who we are, and we don't see our gifts uh very well.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: We're quick to go to that unhealthy list and be like, I knew I was such a jerk, I knew I'm so bad, you know, whatever.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, amen.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I those are the two other pieces besides understanding now our path to growth, but to understand our superpower, it's an amazing thing.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, what we bring to the table and what we have to offer the world, and it can also really grow compassion for one another.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: I have so much greater understanding why people don't think the way I do.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that sounds like terrible to admit, but I think we all, because we're looking through a specific lens, we think that everyone is viewing the world that way.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And instead, when you begin to read about the other types or understand how they are perceiving things, you go, Oh, that's why.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Now I know why I'm always arguing with my husband about this one thing.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's because he's coming from this place, I'm coming from here, but now we can meet better in the middle because we can understand where we're coming from and the point of view.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: Let me give you an example I think will relate to this girl discussion.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: So on the two side, uh so I love to get way involved at the school.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, like yesterday I went and had lunch with Larson and um she wanted to eat outside the classroom.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: She's 10, and I said, Well, can I come in for a minute and see your friends?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, Yes, but just don't embarrass me.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, don't talk to the boys.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Okay, so we're at a small school.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: And there's about, I don't know, 20, 30 girls on one end of the table.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I I have led them through the early versions of treasured.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: I know them under their names.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like my little buddies.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I can't go not see my daughter and not see them.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just want to know how they're doing, how their year's going.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I couldn't leave the room without going like on my like getting down to their level, coming behind them, hugging them, and saying, How are you?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: How's your year?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: What are you up to?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: How's your ballet?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, my heart like would have been crushed if I hadn't gone in there.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: So um, that helperness and that spirit of like a kind of a spiritual go for encouragement.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I love to cheerlead each girl.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: Now, where it gets unhealthy is like when I know a girl is being left out, like I want to make Larson be the savior.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I want to force it and be like, you will have a play date with her, you will go leave a note in her locker, like like and so I try to make her meet, or I try to get over involved, which is not a great idea, by the way, for middle school.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Especially, yes.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's in sixth grade.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, Because it's not authentic to their heart.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: And the kids can tell when it's like your mom made you sit with me.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so I can suggest it, but I'm also finding in sixth grade, um, seventh grade, actually, my older one, is like, mom, you gotta back up.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, You're being overprotective.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: And she's told me, like, straight up, you're being over involved as a parent.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, she's right, she is dead right because my heart is like dying because I can walk in, I feel things really big.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: I can walk in and I can literally feel the hurt in the middle school.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be the helper.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I want to be the savior of it.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I want our family to be the savior of it.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not what God's asked me to do.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's like and it hurts.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm having to like bring that in and let my daughters grow and let that be their choice.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Or they'll just have a mom that made them do stuff.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Without the that's prompting in them to get involved.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: And what's fascinating at that, no, that's so good because at this age, this is where you can decipher and have those conversations with your girls about their personalities.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: And what's going to be really cool, I think, for you, is you understand that that is your superpower, that you understand the needs, the feelings, the emotions in the room.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you either have an idea of how to help or even a way to help articulate it for them.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but for your girls, you're gonna be able to discover what their superpower is and empower them to go be that change agent in a way that's unique and feels normal and right and good to them.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because they can.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's there, it's just you know, going, well, this is how I would do it, but maybe this is how they are gonna do it, which is gonna be really awesome to see and and help develop and strengthen.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's so good.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so good.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I we didn't talk about this before, but I'm curious to know.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned that you'd take in a group of girls through this curriculum.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit about that experience and and that decision to do this and kind of take it grassroots before you take it further.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: So um at our school, we tried um both of my girls in groups.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I will tell you, there were some bumpy, bumpy experiences that I feel like now when girls are starting to use the actual study.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I did some of my own, like I would just make up stuff.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: I would say, okay, this week we're gonna talk about friendship, and I would just bring like supplies from my closet and say, What crafts do I have?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: And we would make up an activity and I would teach on a verse, whatever God gave me.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so it gave me a lot of compassion for the group leader that knows this is so needed, that knows that unity is there for the girls, but you're just like winging it.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, Lord, I feel so ill-equipped and I'm like jumping out in fear, and so that's why that digital kit is like packed.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I try to give uh leaders everything they need, like literally down to the activity, the supplies, the questions.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: So they just literally have to show up, order the snack, you know, bring the pizza, whatever, and they just literally have to be the gatherer versus having to be burdened with the message and the things that they because it's so much work, but I also did realize, even going back to our strengths, that I'm a pretty um, let's say, extroverted, out there, loud, dominant, you know, kind of leader.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I had some bumps, like it didn't go well every time.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: So there's some more introverted moms that felt overwhelmed.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: It was chaos at times.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: There was not always a mother-daughter connection point.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it was like one of the moms used the words hurting cats, but that's what they felt like they were doing.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, ow, that hurts my feeling.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I learned a lot through the process to go like um, you know, one of the activities, one mom this year is um having them do a group that's not treasured, but they're sharing the responsibility that one mom and daughter host a month and they bring the topic.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just always me leading and feeling the pressure.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, hey, you there's rotating responsibility.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like they feel ownership of it, they feel involved, and I'm like, yay, that because it always felt um kind of like it was on my shoulders and I was afraid to ask for help.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm just grateful for that time with my daughter, time with her friends.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing I learned is that it can be too big.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was in the spirit of inclusion.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: I never wanted to leave anyone out, and we would have 20 or so girls there.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I learned that that that size really takes out the opportunity for intimacy.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're gonna share that you're being left out, you're gonna share that your parents are going through a divorce, or you really do need prayer in community, you're not gonna do that in a group of 20 people.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we did break into tables of five, but it never did kind of go that.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: So this new season, um, I'm risking hurt feelings, but I've opened it up to only five or six girls at my house instead of at the school in a room.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it can work lots of different ways, but I found that my girls are having such a better experience because I just risked it and said, I would like you not to talk about this and post photos, but each child of mine they meet once a week and they have only four or five friends here from not just their school, but from their church and other ways in the community, and it's been a different experience.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: And they're using the actual treasured one, the new one.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's awesome.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's been good.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I my encouragement would be to don't get discouraged as if you're a group leader.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and also, no, if your daughter is more of a one-on-one, do not think a group is the only way.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: If she's more of a quiet and shy processor and not open, okay, in the group setting that just say, you know what, we're gonna do it just us and let's have these conversations just us.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what the journal is for.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it's so good.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh already my daughter is like loving the journal and loves that idea.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I think that's typical of most tween girls who are maybe a little hesitant to verbalize everything, but you know, the written process, even if they don't love writing but or drawing it out or just writing a word, feels a little safer at first.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, uh I love it.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's so good.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, as we wrap up and kind of close this conversation, I really want to encourage my friends who have daughters this age, or maybe grandmothers who have granddaughters or friends, or maybe ministry leaders, they want to get their hands on the mis on this material.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: But what are three things that my friends listening can do today to integrate more meaningful conversation with their tweens or with the young people in their lives?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm glad you sent this question ahead of time because I was able to think because I would I would have a list of a hundred, but yeah, um, and we mentioned we mentioned some of these already, but these all come under the idea of creating open, safe, ongoing communication because you want to keep that that engagement and that communication just going because they're gonna try to bounce off you.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna get they're trying to get independence, they're gonna be getting frustrated with you, and that's all normal.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: So if you want ongoing communication with your daughter, these are three things I would tell.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: First, and you mentioned this, is listen more than you talk.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so that comes with asking questions and just being there to just listen and not fix, but just listen more than you talk, which is way hard for me, but I've noticed when I do it that they come back more often.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's true.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, the second one is uh I heard this from Sandra Stanley, is Amy Stanley's wife in Atlanta, and I've never forgotten it.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: But she said, Don't freak out.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: And she said, if they come up home and are like, hey, my friend lit this thing on fire.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: She said, You need to look at them like, oh, really, tell me more.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: And um, inside you can be having a complete freak out.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: But the more you do that, the more they will come home and say, Hey, so-and-so was doing this with this boy on the bus.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, Oh, cool, tell me more.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because you don't want to be the freak out mom because she will just not come back and tell you anything else.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: So don't but it's hard.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's so hard.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't have to do it.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Fight it.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's right.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then go back.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: If you do, just go back and say, Hey, I really overreacted earlier.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so sorry.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I hope you know that you can tell me anything and I'm not gonna go um tell the world and I'm not gonna freak out.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: I just really want you to know that was me overreacting.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Just own it and just say that's not who I want to be as your mom.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the third one would be encourage more than critique.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: And this is like to the gut of me because I'm a picker.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you want them to be like, do you brush your teeth and like wow, like sit like right now, my elbows are on the table, but I'm like, Do you sit up ever?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like because you're seeing like actual things and you're starting to go, oh my word, this kid's gonna go into high school and college where I'm not there to like pinch their framey and be like, act like a human.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my word.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: So you we just nitpick all day and it literally chips away at their spirit just so hard.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so I know your moms are like, Well, what do we do?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I don't think you stop trying to train them to be nice adults, but it can't be all we do.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: And the majority has to be encouragement, like, hey, you're doing awesome at school.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: We just forget, like, we get the stack of papers from school and we flip past all the hundreds and we pull out the 170 and say, like, what'd you do here?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: We forgot to to go back to the 100, 180, 90 and go, nice job.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you're doing so great.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: This must be so hard to manage all the sports and all the pressures.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm just really proud that you're managing all this.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: How can I help you with that?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's this area.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: Do you need any help with anything?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because it's hard to be 10 and 12 and 13.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: We I don't think any of us want to redo those years.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, thank you.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Not with a phone.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're they're done.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I know, that's for sure.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, it is so important.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think the affirmations and to highlight the positives and to encourage, uh, you know, not just sandwich it, but look for it.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: Look, look for ways that we can celebrate their Yeah, and I think just look at her through the eyes of your childhood and go, like, what did uh what hurt me so bad when I was a little girl, and what did I wish I received from my parents?
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: And when you look at it through those lens, you start treating them with a little more respect, a little more empathy, a little more um, you know, even responsibility to go, they're capable of so much more than we give them credit for.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we soften up a little bit to go, like they're real humans and they're capable of great things.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: And God can God can do it.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's really not on all us.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: And my friend Jeannie Cunyon, who's a great author, but she's like, we can take the pressure off when we realize that literally um we are, she says this.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: I love she says that we are significant, but God is sovereign and we can realize that it kind of takes this big burden off our shoulders.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you, Jesus.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Amen and amen.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, thank you, Courtney.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: This was fantastic.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait for my friends to hear this and to get their hands on your material or for certain to share it with others because, like you said, it's a much needed resource, not just the aha moment, but there's not a whole lot out there, and we really, really need this guidance.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you having me on.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you know anyone with daughters or granddaughters ages 9 to 13, you are going to want to share this episode with them.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Treasured can be done in six short weeks or over the course of months or even a year.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: We need to be having these conversations with our young women.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: And who better than to be having them?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Than their moms or with a trusted leader in the local church.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't yet joined Simply Wholehearted on Instagram, then hop on over to join the Enneagram conversation and be inspired to live your best wholehearted life.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, and while you're checking out the show notes, would you leave a five-star rating on iTunes or your favorite podcast app?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: This helps others know that they are welcome here and what to expect in our conversations.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Next Monday's episode is the best way to begin the last two months of the year.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: I know, can you believe it?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Sandra Dalton is joining us in sharing her script for Sacred Rest.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, if you've been around a while, you know I'm passionate about equipping ourselves with soul rest, especially during this often too busy time of year.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: I hope our conversation will help you start the holiday season in a different frame of mind and encourage you to create more room to breathe.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, I am practically dancing with excitement about our 2019 holiday season episodes.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: I've got so much good in store to share.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to share it all with you.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: So until next time, let's invite others to join us as we pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for assembly wholehearted life.