Latest / Show, don't Tell Writing with Suzy Vadori / 73. Writing Personal Memoir with Kathaleen Sorensen

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73. Writing Personal Memoir with Kathaleen Sorensen · Show, don't Tell Writing with Suzy Vadori

• 0:07
  Welcome to Show.
• 0:07
  Don't Tell Writing with me, Suzy Vadori, where I teach you the tried and true secrets to writing fiction nonfiction that are gonna wow your readers broken down step by step.
• 0:18
  We're gonna explore writing techniques.
• 0:21
  I'm gonna show you a glimpse behind the scenes of successful writers' careers that you wouldn't have access to otherwise.
• 0:27
  And I'm also gonna coach writers live on their pages so that you can learn and transform your own storytelling.
• 0:33
  Whether you're just starting out, you're drafting your first book, you're editing, or you're currently rewriting that book, or maybe even your 10th book, this show's gonna help you unlock the writing skills that you didn't even know you needed, but you definitely do.
• 0:48
  I'm so looking forward to helping you get your amazing ideas from your mind onto your pages in an exciting way for both you and your readers, so that you can achieve your wildest writing dreams, and you're gonna also have some fun doing it.
• 1:02
  Let's dive in.
• 1:04
  Today we're talking about personal memoir and I wanted to get personal, so I'm hosting someone very dear to me, my aunt Kathy Sorenson, who wrote a memoir about her son, my cousin Thomas Sorenson, who passed away on September 1st, 2014, to his rare form of muscular dystrophy at the age of 18.
• 1:22
  Kathy is first and foremost the mother of two wonderful sons.
• 1:26
  She's been married to her soulmate Glenn for over 30 years.
• 1:29
  She's a passionate teacher with a music specialty of over 40 years, and now she's officially retired, but she's still guest teaching and has taught thousands of students both in music and in regular classroom experiences.
• 1:40
  Kathy does nothing halfway and exceeds in whatever she takes on.
• 1:44
  She loves music and gardening and cooking and baking.
• 1:47
  She's extremely caring and loving, and she gives back to the community through volunteering.
• 1:53
  She's volunteer board member with Easterseals Alberta, which was a cause that was near and dear to Thomas and has also volunteered with the Calgary Chapter of Muscular dystrophy this past year.
• 2:02
  She also made number one on the bestsellers list with her new memoir about Thomas.
• 2:07
  Living in the land of the uprights.
• 2:09
  It's a nonfiction story about him and Kathy hopes to inspire and encourage others in all walks of life as she shares the love she experienced in raising this amazing person, Thomas.
• 2:20
  He was smart, caring, and a huge inspiration to so many.
• 2:23
  Even during his short life, his life was selflessly devoted to helping others and spreading awareness for disabilities.
• 2:30
  He was a public speaker and a public figure in his own right.
• 2:33
  Thomas achieved his dream of attending Carleton University with hopes of one day studying viral vectors to cure various diseases.
• 2:40
  He was the first student with a permanent disability to go through their faculty of science, and there's now a scholarship at Carleton in Thomas' memory to support other students with disabilities who have big dreams.
• 2:51
  I wanted to share the words of his brother Jamie.
• 2:53
  My brother Thomas passed away at 18, however, his 18 years were not by any means average.
• 2:59
  Although he was physically confined to a wheelchair from an early age, his mind was brilliant, limitless.
• 3:05
  He was defined by his disability, but not in the way you would think.
• 3:08
  Thomas utterly refused to let his disease serve as an excuse and instead warrant prominently for the world to see In this episode will be discussing Kath's journey to writing her very personal memoir, and we'll get personal.
• 3:22
  If you're feeling called to write a personal memoir about your own life or someone close to you.
• 3:26
  This episode is for you.
• 3:28
  We're gonna dive deep into what it was like for her, what it took to get it done, and what it's like now to have that book out in the world.
• 3:36
  Welcome to the show.
• 3:37
  Don't Tell Writing podcast.
• 3:39
  This is the first for me.
• 3:40
  I am interviewing Kathy Sorenson, who is actually my aunt, and she wrote a wonderful memoir, a personal memoir about my cousin, her son, Thomas.
• 3:52
  Called Living in the Land of the Uprights.
• 3:54
  Welcome to the show, Kathy.
• 3:56
  Thanks for coming.
• 3:56
  For coming on.
• 3:57
  Thanks Su for having me.
• 3:59
  So this book is about Thomas's life, your son and my wonderful cousin who we lost too soon.
• 4:06
  Can you share a little bit about Thomas' story for our listeners?
• 4:11
  Thomas's story is carrying on his legacy for him.
• 4:16
  He passed away too soon.
• 4:18
  We were not expecting it at that time.
• 4:21
  He wasn't ready to die.
• 4:24
  He said he didn't finish.
• 4:27
  He had so much more he wanted to accomplish.
• 4:30
  And after he passed, we very quickly realized how many people's lives he impacted.
• 4:38
  And as his mom, I felt it necessary to continue his story and his legacy and share his story with the world.
• 4:49
  Absolutely.
• 4:49
  And yeah, it wasn't very long after he passed away that the idea for this project, you'd been speaking and you continued some of his work with Easterseals and other organizations, but the idea for this project and writing a book came to you as well.
• 5:05
  Can you share a bit about why a book, what was it about a book that was you were feeling called to do?
• 5:10
  I think I wanted to get the story out there and it was literally, it was a month after he passed.
• 5:17
  I sat down and started writing.
• 5:19
  I just felt I needed to do that and put it into words and never considered myself an author, and it took 10 years to do, but I got it done.
• 5:30
  Happens to the best of us.
• 5:32
  Didn't consider ourselves an author, sat down and started writing a book.
• 5:35
  I've been there.
• 5:36
  It's a story that many of our listeners are going to be able to relate to.
• 5:39
  So how did you get started?
• 5:40
  So you said you sat down and just started writing?
• 5:43
  I just started writing.
• 5:44
  I originally thought I would do it in sections.
• 5:47
  So like Thomas's schooling, his volunteer work, the doctors, the hospitals, the family, and.
• 5:57
  What I found is I was repeating myself constantly because I had to put everything into context.
• 6:04
  So then I thought, no, this isn't working.
• 6:07
  So I ended up doing it chronologically and I tied everything together all in one.
• 6:14
  And it seemed to make more sense that way.
• 6:17
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:18
  And it does.
• 6:19
  Sometimes these things come out in journal entries or you start writing.
• 6:23
  And that's really common.
• 6:24
  And I think a decade ago I wasn't doing this work and we talked about it, but I wasn't doing this work.
• 6:29
  I wasn't working with nonfiction writers, and so I didn't have the process that I have now.
• 6:33
  But you're absolutely right.
• 6:34
  That's really something that a lot of writers come to is they think of it in chapters or they come to me with a table of contents and they say, these are the topics.
• 6:42
  But it is hard to not repeat yourself when you're trying to do a topic.
• 6:46
  And so it has to have a thread.
• 6:48
  And even though it's a memoir for lay people to read it.
• 6:52
  It is really awesome to put it into a story so that we can really see it laid out about how everything's interplayed.
• 6:59
  So, yeah, it ended up being a really great way to lay this story out and walk us through.
• 7:04
  Okay, so the book is memoir, but are you the main character in the book, would you say, or is it still Thomas?
• 7:10
  Because it's a little bit tricky, obviously it's not, he, we think of memoir as writing about ourselves and sometimes it, it is writing about a loved one.
• 7:17
  So what did the, how did that relationship end up being in terms of writing about your story versus writing about Thomas's story or how did that end up?
• 7:25
  It is about Thomas.
• 7:27
  Yes, there is a little bit of background how, what was happening in, in my life and.
• 7:33
  My family's life before Thomas arrived in our world.
• 7:36
  Yeah.
• 7:36
  Um, I also have voices, other voices.
• 7:40
  My husband Glenn wrote, and his voice is in there.
• 7:44
  Many of Thomas's friends' voices are in there.
• 7:46
  Some family members are in there.
• 7:48
  I opened it up.
• 7:49
  I invited people to, to write about Thomas, and so it's me in that I inserted their stories to match what was happening in Thomas's life at that.
• 8:02
  Time in the book.
• 8:04
  One thing that I found that was a huge help, fortunately, I don't know why, but just before Thomas was born, I started writing journals, keeping a journal, and yeah, I didn't do it every day, but for several years I had a really good account of what was happening in our lives, and that was huge for me to go back and look at those journals and give me.
• 8:29
  Specific dates and times and events.
• 8:33
  I found when I was writing, Glen would read what I wrote and he'd say, oh no, Kathy, that is not what happened, and I was convinced.
• 8:42
  In my mind it was, that happens.
• 8:44
  Yeah, that happens all the time.
• 8:46
  Fortunately, again, I went back to the journals and I was able to say, look, land, here it is.
• 8:52
  This is the date and this is what happened.
• 8:54
  But there were times in the story where, in Thomas's story that Glenn and I remember things so differently and we're both convinced that we are correct.
• 9:07
  And unless we had a third party there, we couldn't agree.
• 9:10
  And so sometimes in the book you're going to hear two versions of the same story that are quite different.
• 9:15
  But yeah, it worked.
• 9:17
  That actually happens a lot.
• 9:19
  And memories are imperfect, right?
• 9:20
  And we edit them as we go.
• 9:22
  And so that's difficult when you sit down to write a memoir.
• 9:25
  It's something that a lot of memoirs counter is that.
• 9:30
  How much is true or what if I don't remember.
• 9:33
  And so we end up in first drafts of things like, I think it happened this way, or I remember it that way.
• 9:39
  And then we have to edit those pieces out because at the end of the day, if you write that way and everything is trepidatious or everything's, ah, maybe it didn't, it doesn't feel like you have this voice of authority.
• 9:49
  And yeah, you do the best you can, right?
• 9:51
  You consult when people, and, and then you make a choice.
• 9:54
  And as long as it's true to you, the writer, and that's the way that you remember it.
• 9:58
  It's true.
• 9:59
  Yeah.
• 10:00
  And that's a, it's a tough thing to get through is how much of this, and obviously you have to caveat it and say something like places and names may be different or,'cause there's things that you have to do to take license to make the story work.
• 10:13
  Yeah.
• 10:13
  Did you have to do anything like that?
• 10:15
  I did ask permission from a lot of people, may I put your name in or may I tell your story, or that sort of thing.
• 10:23
  The other thing I did, and I can't remember who it was after Thomas passed, somebody said, Kathy, you need to go in and print off Thomas's Facebook pages.
• 10:32
  Yeah.
• 10:33
  And thank goodness I did that.
• 10:35
  He's so popular.
• 10:36
  He was, I'm just saying there's so much there and people and even after he passed and even today, yeah, sometimes I get notifications with people writing you his page.
• 10:45
  Right, exactly.
• 10:46
  And so what I did, I printed everything up, is a huge binder in the end.
• 10:50
  But that also helped me with the book because it helped me put things on the timeline.
• 10:57
  But it also, Thomas, with his humor, allowed me to have his voice in the book.
• 11:02
  And so if he was doing something in particular, he would comment on Facebook about what was happening that day.
• 11:10
  And so many of them are hilarious.
• 11:13
  I think of he so dry.
• 11:15
  Dear friend, Greg and Thomas went out on the lake in the wintertime and Greg was skating, and of course Thomas was in his wheelchair.
• 11:23
  And my heart.
• 11:24
  I mean, it just about lept out because here's, Tom is doing wheelies on the ice in his wheelchair and he makes this ludicrous come and, but he a super heavy wheelchair, which probably is really heavy to be out on the ice.
• 11:36
  It was thick enough.
• 11:37
  So I, but it still terrified me.
• 11:39
  But he made this comment on Facebook about how Canadian is it to be out on the ice in a wheelchair that's paid for by the Canadian government or so I can't say it as well as Thomas did at the time, but.
• 11:52
  It was fun to be able to have Thomas's humor in his voice throughout the story as well, so that, yeah, that would've been hard to do if you didn't have that record.
• 12:00
  Okay, so this is great.
• 12:01
  I was gonna ask you later in the interview, but because we're talking about Thomas's sense of humor living in the land of the uprights, can you tell me about the title of the book?
• 12:11
  How did that come to be originally?
• 12:13
  I was thinking I was gonna call it Tenacity Vision Success, because TVS were Thomas's initials, and that totally described him.
• 12:22
  And then as time went on, we did find out through his friend Greg again.
• 12:27
  That for many years, Thomas secretly called anybody that was not in a wheelchair, an upright, and it just seemed so fitting living in the land of the uprights.
• 12:39
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:40
  And I love, there's so many layers to the title, and I talk a lot with writers about coming up with a title, and it's just so fitting for so many reasons.
• 12:48
  It is.
• 12:49
  Something from his voice that he said, but also it was something that you didn't know that he said, which is neat.
• 12:57
  Like it's like you're still learning from him.
• 13:01
  Mm-hmm.
• 13:01
  Many years later and learning about him and this project allowed you to do that.
• 13:05
  So I just think it's such an amazing title.
• 13:08
  Congratulations.
• 13:09
  Thank you.
• 13:10
  So what is it that you want?
• 13:12
  Yes, we want to keep his story alive and everything else, but what was it that you want readers to get from this book?
• 13:18
  What is the message that is the reason that you wrote the book?
• 13:21
  What do you hope readers will read it and know or think, or feel afterward?
• 13:28
  I want to believe that this book reaches out to pretty much everybody.
• 13:33
  When you look at, dare I say, a normal family who have children who have no disabilities, no conditions, nothing, and they read Thomas's story, they see this kid in a wheelchair with daily challenges everywhere.
• 13:50
  And I luck at kids and I sometimes they feel like they have it so hard.
• 13:56
  And Oh, poor me.
• 13:57
  And they just don't realize that they have everything it takes to move ahead in the world.
• 14:03
  And if they read Thomas's story, they maybe could be inspired.
• 14:08
  So there's the teenage kind of thing there.
• 14:10
  Caregivers.
• 14:12
  Caregivers.
• 14:12
  Because yeah, you need patients and families with children with disabilities.
• 14:18
  Number one, you're not alone.
• 14:20
  Number two, maybe there's something in the book that will give you some hope, give you some encouragement, give you support, and for the general public.
• 14:32
  When some people saw Thomas in a wheelchair, they would look at him and totally ignore him or give him a look.
• 14:40
  And some people would say he's a hopeless cause he's in wheelchair, he can't walk.
• 14:44
  Hopefully putting those kinds of ideas out of people's heads and making people with disabilities feel welcome and just say, hi, smile.
• 14:54
  Open up a door for somebody.
• 14:56
  See if you can help in some way.
• 14:57
  There's so much to give out there and so much you can do to make the world a better place.
• 15:05
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:06
  I love that.
• 15:07
  So the book has been out for about a year now.
• 15:10
  What's the reception been like?
• 15:12
  It's been really good.
• 15:14
  Anybody that has read it, who has contacted me in one way or another has been extremely positive, and they're like, oh my gosh, I couldn't put it down.
• 15:24
  These kinds of comments, it made me last.
• 15:26
  It made me cry, and I can't believe.
• 15:29
  What you as a family went through and Thomas achieved so much in this young life.
• 15:35
  Everything's been very positive.
• 15:37
  I did a guest speaking engagement at the Alberta Nurses Association and there were 250 in attendance.
• 15:45
  For me, it was super overwhelming because there were so many people there and, um, I wasn't expecting the response.
• 15:54
  The live response people laughed out loud, people gasped.
• 15:59
  They broke into applause probably five or six times, and I got a standing ovation at the end.
• 16:05
  There were people crying like, and let me just share with our listeners.
• 16:08
  Kathy is a teacher, but she's a music teacher, and so she's no stranger to the stage.
• 16:14
  She puts on performances every year with her students and, and she's since retired from full time and is working part time.
• 16:22
  This is not like you were overwhelmed because you were on the stage.
• 16:25
  You were used to speaking in front of people, but this was different.
• 16:28
  Oh, this was so different because it was very personal.
• 16:32
  And when you go out there, at least me, you think, oh my gosh, should I really be here?
• 16:38
  Do people really wanna hear this story?
• 16:40
  And that just solidified for me.
• 16:43
  It gave me affirmation that, yes, I need to get the story out.
• 16:46
  I'm just waiting for the right person to read it.
• 16:49
  So it just explodes and it's a lot of work.
• 16:53
  And ju thanks to you, you've given me some tips on what to do and whatnot.
• 16:57
  But Wowza to put yourself out there and try to sell it, it is a lot of work.
• 17:03
  And as the sand still waiting for that right person to get their hands on it and go, wow.
• 17:09
  Yeah, that was what I wanted to lead into this discussion is it's surprising to many writers, 'cause we think that writing the book and making it the best book that you could be is all the is to it.
• 17:19
  And there's a whole lot more once the book comes out to get it into reader's hands and mm-hmm.
• 17:24
  Yeah.
• 17:25
  That process is frustrating at times, but baby steps and it builds, right?
• 17:30
  Every little thing that you do and every time that you go out there and put yourself out there.
• 17:35
  That's 250 more people that are gonna spread the word for you.
• 17:39
  Exactly, yeah.
• 17:41
  And I, I've tried a variety of things.
• 17:43
  I have emailed a pile of libraries across Canada, and that's very not consuming in itself.
• 17:50
  I did a radio talk show with Linda Olson a couple of weeks ago, actually last week, and I was really nervous, but I think it went well.
• 17:58
  I think it went great.
• 18:00
  And the thing is, what's interesting for me is that.
• 18:04
  Thomas paved the way for so many of these things.
• 18:07
  He was inter, I don't know if he was interviewed by Linda.
• 18:09
  I think he was at some point, or, oh, Linda.
• 18:11
  Linda growing up.
• 18:13
  Yeah.
• 18:13
  By that organization.
• 18:15
  Like Thomas was on TV often, and Thomas spoke in front of huge audiences about his personal challenges on the regular.
• 18:23
  Like he, yeah, he did these things and did them well.
• 18:28
  Yeah.
• 18:29
  So even though he was very young, he was already an advocate.
• 18:33
  Yeah, it's some big shoes to fill that you're doing now, but he would be, yeah.
• 18:38
  Something that he did and it's hard to put yourself out there.
• 18:41
  Yeah.
• 18:42
  But it's, it is very satisfying.
• 18:44
  And the odd time I might get an email or text or somebody reaches out to him is, wow, okay, yeah.
• 18:51
  This is why I am doing it.
• 18:52
  Absolute.
• 18:53
  So what can you share with me, because I wasn't part of all of this process.
• 18:58
  I don't know what Kathy's gonna answer, but what's that you learned about writing along the way that helps you move this book from journals and notes and that repeating scenarios to the form that it ended up being published in.
• 19:10
  Is there anything that you can share with listeners who are writing their memoir or thinking about writing their memoir?
• 19:15
  What are, what are the things that you learned along the way?
• 19:18
  One thing that inspired me, I had literally just started writing it and I went back, ended up going back to teach in November, and our principal that year gave the staff a copy of Wonder by Palacio.
• 19:32
  And as I was reading it, I was like, this is exactly what I wanna do.
• 19:37
  I wanna have those different voices in there and the different viewpoints and whatnot.
• 19:42
  And so at the time.
• 19:44
  My husband Glenn, I love him dearly.
• 19:46
  He said, cabby, you're not a writer.
• 19:48
  You can't do this.
• 19:49
  We need to hire a ghost writer.
• 19:52
  So I, you did it.
• 19:54
  You did it.
• 19:54
  I emailed Palacio and I, oh, amazing.
• 19:58
  I said, I wanna write this story, but we're thinking maybe a ghost writer, and any suggestions that I told her about Thomas and his passing and never expecting a response.
• 20:11
  The V amazing, the very next day.
• 20:13
  I get an email back from her and she gave me the inspiration.
• 20:17
  She said, Kathy, I Googled your son.
• 20:19
  I read some of the articles and saw what was on Google and amazing story, and you have to write this story.
• 20:26
  So that was my first step.
• 20:29
  I just, I was inspired by her.
• 20:31
  She gave me the confidence that, okay, yeah.
• 20:32
  So I started writing.
• 20:34
  I did have hired somebody who had an English major because I did not consider myself as a set a writer.
• 20:42
  I had her kind of going through and fixing whatnot.
• 20:47
  And then much later, a parent of mine from one of my schools is also an author and he kind asked, said, yo, um, I don't mind taking a look at your draft and this sort of thing.
• 20:58
  Yeah, what he taught me.
• 21:01
  It was huge.
• 21:02
  He taught me so much, but the one thing he taught me was Show us.
• 21:06
  Don't tell.
• 21:07
  Yes, thank you.
• 21:08
  You're on the show Don't Tell podcast right now.
• 21:10
  And I preach to the choir here.
• 21:14
  That is probably the biggest thing I learned.
• 21:16
  He would make me rewrite and rewrite, and so I had to add all these details and it was really cool because I did have several people come to me and say, wow.
• 21:28
  When I was reading about this one thing, I felt like I was in the room with you, which is really cool and magic.
• 21:35
  Yeah, exactly.
• 21:37
  I did have one person say there was too much detail, which I found surprising, but I'm not gonna let you know what there it.
• 21:45
  There does come a time when we show too much, but most writers are light years away from.
• 21:50
  I wouldn't shy away if they felt like there was too much detail.
• 21:53
  Maybe they just aren't.
• 21:55
  Maybe it was a long book for them to read.
• 21:56
  I don't know.
• 21:57
  Cut.
• 21:58
  Okay.
• 21:59
  That is amazing.
• 22:00
  I am so glad that you got that advice because it is exactly right.
• 22:03
  It can take your writing, especially in memoir, when we're trying to represent something that really happened, that feeling of really being there is what you're going for.
• 22:11
  That's what makes it, and I say it's magic, but it actually isn't magic, it's science.
• 22:15
  And we turn that around and it's how reader's brains work.
• 22:18
  And if we can make them feel like they were there, that's when we feel that empathy, which is one of Thomas's big things that he spoke about, was empathy.
• 22:27
  And that's when we can feel empathetic.
• 22:29
  And I'm using that not because it's Thomas's story, but because it's every story.
• 22:33
  We want to walk a mile in someone else's shoes and we want.
• 22:36
  Literature and books to actually open us up to different experiences and yeah, that, that show don't tell.
• 22:43
  I call the podcast that for a reason.
• 22:45
  I could geek out about it all day long.
• 22:47
  Best advice you could have gotten.
• 22:49
  Okay, so we are to the quick fire portion of our podcast, and I think we answered this question already, but I'm gonna put it here again.
• 22:57
  How long did it take you from the moment that you decided to write this book until it was published?
• 23:01
  10 years.
• 23:03
  10 years.
• 23:03
  Yeah.
• 23:04
  Yeah.
• 23:04
  Yes.
• 23:04
  But I was, I was working full-time, as many of us do.
• 23:07
  I was working full-time for my first two books and working, even now, coaching other writers and editing and doing all the things, it's hard to find time for your own writing, but sometimes it also takes that long.
• 23:19
  I think, and this is a question too, because a lot of memoir.
• 23:23
  Writers come across this, but how did your feeling toward the book change?
• 23:28
  10 years when we first started.
• 23:30
  It's quite raw.
• 23:31
  How did your feeling about the book, or your perception of the story change in that 10 years?
• 23:36
  Or did it?
• 23:37
  I don't think the overall idea changed.
• 23:41
  I changed the format going from China.
• 23:43
  When your writing skills changed, but your feelings toward it, did they stay exactly the same throughout?
• 23:49
  Pretty much, there were many times where I was writing and I just had to walk away.
• 23:53
  I just couldn't do it.
• 23:54
  It was just too hard.
• 23:56
  And I would come back and rewrite or continue it.
• 24:00
  It got very heavy many times.
• 24:03
  And that was part of the reason why it took so long too.
• 24:06
  Just, yeah.
• 24:06
  No, and that's great.
• 24:07
  And that's normal, right?
• 24:09
  And that perspective allows you, sometimes we wanna write a memoir right in the moment it's, it is too hard.
• 24:16
  Right.
• 24:17
  And you need that time.
• 24:18
  And while you say, oh, I was working and I didn't, I didn't do this, or I didn't do that, but sometimes we just need that perspective and time.
• 24:24
  And now you're able to go out into the world and talk about it.
• 24:29
  Yeah.
• 24:29
  Yeah.
• 24:30
  Okay.
• 24:31
  What's your best advice for those feeling called to write Personal memoir?
• 24:37
  Just sit down and do it.
• 24:39
  Don't question yourself.
• 24:41
  I, I wrote from the heart big time.
• 24:45
  That is another comment a lot of people have made and it's very personal and yeah, it is.
• 24:51
  I don't think I held back really?
• 24:53
  We did, and I did.
• 24:55
  Glen, there was lots We didn't put in the book.
• 24:58
  Tons.
• 24:59
  We didn't put in the book.
• 25:00
  Writing a memoir doesn't give the world an all access pass into your life.
• 25:04
  And so no.
• 25:05
  When you, it's okay to have boundaries for sure.
• 25:08
  Yeah.
• 25:08
  You don't have to share everything.
• 25:10
  And if you're sharing things to spare people's feelings or things because it's too personal or things because it's off topic, those are all totally students to not share things.
• 25:20
  And a lot of it too was, yeah, we left a lot of family stuff out.
• 25:26
  People are still a lot their story.
• 25:28
  Yeah.
• 25:28
  We, we there, there's really no need for that either.
• 25:32
  But yeah.
• 25:33
  And there, there were things we would've liked to have put in there but decided not to.
• 25:38
  Hey, it's all part of the choices.
• 25:40
  Yeah.
• 25:40
  And it turned out to be a wonderful book.
• 25:43
  I've read it a couple of times.
• 25:45
  It's, it's hard to get through, but it's really great.
• 25:48
  I am.
• 25:49
  So excited to see where this is opening up doors slowly this year, but it's coming, like you said, that right person reading the book and the legacy continues.
• 25:59
  So where can find you and your book?
• 26:02
  My book is everywhere.
• 26:04
  Alices Nest bookstore in Calgary for sure.
• 26:07
  You can buy it on Amazon, you could get it at Indigo.
• 26:11
  There's HHA in the United States.
• 26:13
  I found a website.
• 26:14
  It's available in so many different places.
• 26:17
  Crazy.
• 26:17
  Yeah.
• 26:18
  Yeah.
• 26:18
  I have a website.
• 26:20
  Technically challenged at times, but it is up and running.
• 26:24
  www.thomaslegacy.ca can reach out there and amazing.
• 26:33
  So if you want to have a totally inspirational public speaker who's gonna come and share the story of a very inspiring young man, go grab Kathy's website and contact her.
• 26:45
  Thanks so much for coming on the show today, Kathy.
• 26:47
  This is a long time coming.
• 26:48
  I'm so glad we made it happen.
• 26:50
  Thank you for having me.
• 26:51
  It's always a pleasure spending time with you, Suze, and yeah, no, this was great.
• 26:56
  I really appreciate it, so thank you.
• 27:05
  Thanks for tuning in to show.
• 27:06
  No, tell Writing with me, Suzy Vadori.
• 27:09
  Help me continue to bring you the straight goods for that book you're writing or planning to write.
• 27:14
  Please consider subscribing to this podcast and leaving a review on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever else you're listening.
• 27:21
  Also, visit susie Vadori.com/newsletter to hop on my weekly inspired writing newsletter list where you'll stay inspired and be the first to know about upcoming training events and writing courses that happen in my community.
• 27:36
  If you're feeling brave, check the show notes and send us a page of your writing that isn't quite where you want it to be yet for our show notes, tell.
• 27:43
  Page review episodes.
• 27:45
  Remember that book and your writing is going to open doors that you haven't even thought of yet, and I can't wait to help you make it the absolute best you're feeling called to write that book.
• 27:58
  Keep going, and I'm gonna be right here cheering you on.
• 28:01
  See you again next week.