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Nature's Leftist Conspiracy against Western Civilization: Contemporary Mythology // 260 · PlasticPills Critical Theory & Philosophy

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Well, just before we started recording, Pills told us that
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: he's come to the realization of what he wants to
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: do for the rest of his media creation career.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, been doing, been doing, But I did say
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: that while we're not recording for a good reason. You know,
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: philosophy is in the title of the podcast. We got
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: to keep up appearances. Although I've been I've been saying
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: ideas don't matter.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: For a while.
• 0:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you've been saying that shit forever years at least.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: And metaphysics, yes, it is that metaphysics has ended, but
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: also that metaphysics never was about what it thought it
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: was about. Like philosophy without an object is just like theology,
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: and that you could basically say whatever you want because
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: no one's ever going to be able to check whether
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: you know being is multiplicity or being is one it says,
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: it's sick. It's a sick waste of time.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, get back to the immediate see of things.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: I feel very vague on what the difference between theory
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: and philosophy is. I mean, I just they're to me,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: they just seem like one jumbo lump crab.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Well, it's the difference in objective analysis,
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I think the different thing they're putting in front of
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: themselves to figure out. But philosophy, I mean, you're right,
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: it's always supplemented itself with other stuff like poetry and
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: psychology and God, the gods, whatever. But the object of
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: philosophy proper is basically just other philosophy and the other
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: abstract objects that are in other philosophies. Do you just
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: mean metaphysics, Yeah, I guess, like the core of philosophy.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: When there's another word in front of philosophy, like political dash,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: philosophy insofar as it's philosophy rather than political science, it's
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: about metaphysics. Okay, But I've been thinking about this, and
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: don't hold me to this because I haven't. I haven't
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: written it out philosophically, but the my thought is that
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: it's about the difference between theory and philosophy is what
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: the object of them are. And the content of philosophy
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: is almost like the the exclusive content of philosophy. If
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: you take away it's it's digressions and other interests. It's
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: just other philosophy. Right, So what is other philosophy? Well,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: that's philosophy sounding language, which are abstracted objects. And then
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: arguments about those abstracted objects as an explanation that, in
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: the very last instance, is back is backwards mapped onto
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: experience if at all like hers cul a great example
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: of this, saying I'm going to start with the real
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: objects and then instantly he's in like la la land.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: But the content of theory is not abstract or it's
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: it's object. I should say its object is not abstract
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: because the os of theory are like psychology or political economy,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: or commercials or the reflecting pool. But yeah, my conclusion,
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: I think this is right. Philosophy is just about nothing
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: accept other philosophy language except when it did self help.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: It kind of gave up on self help in the
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Middle Ages. But Vickenstein we Wasn's right to be provocative
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: by saying that the philosophy, the problems of philosophy are
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: just language twisted up in nots. That's literally what it
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: is now.
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: He did also say there he did say there are ethical.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Problems, political problems, moral problems, but there are no genuinely
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: philosophical problems.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, the problems don't go away, because even if
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: you say, okay, philosophy is dead, thinking is dead. Ideas
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: or not don't matter. You still left with all the
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: problems you have before. And it's like what we've been
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: talking about end of metaphysics or Nietzsche like transvaluation of
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: all values in the emergence some new regime. I think
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: you have Hidegger, Like I read Heidegger and Beaugard back
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: to back, and I'm like, Heidegger's saying, you know, ideas
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: are just like the outward appearance of things, and that's
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: why Plato and everyone else failed to think the essence
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: of things ever since. And so he's like, where's the
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: lost immediacy of the thing? Or Bougiyard goes the total
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: other way. It's like, no, we're in hyper reality and
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: it's illusion through and through. If you try to reach
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: behind the thing to grasp its essence, your hand just
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: passes right through it. There's nuts. Still, it depends which
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: way you go after it's dead.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's realism versus anti realism basically. But it's still
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: up to debate whether the stuff that philosophy is about
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: is real or ever was. And it depends on why
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: you want to talk about reality. But yeah, Bodyard said
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: it was never real. Hidiger said it was real. But
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: no one ever thought to think about it. And I
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: think the moment, like the linguistic turn, factors in here
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: because philosophy it's language, right, And then you realize, okay,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: if the content of philosophy is not some outside world
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: but itself is signification and significance. As soon as you
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: take it to be that, it's it's relevant. As soon
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: as you take it to be cosmic abstraction, then it
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: no longer has any object and it's just self reference
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: like being. The question of being. If that's about the
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: significance of being, all for that, but being is not
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: what makes the flowers bloom, you know. So the linguistic
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: turn revealed to philosophy that it was, in fact all
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: along just creative writing. Some philosophers accept that and they
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: get more creative, and some double down on realism to
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: make their make themselves feel better.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: Science has always been about it, too, isn't it. Science
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: is always about just detailed articulation of reality in whatever books,
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: hallucinations of details beyond anything that we can actually ever
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: see or experience.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: It is, I mean, it is, although the difference being
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: in science sometimes the object punches back and says, oh,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: you're you're wrong in philosophy, which is theology. It's onto theology,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: some would say, But in onto theology, the object never says,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: oh hey, you got you got me wrong. God has
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: never in history corrected a theologian. And in so far
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: as philosophy is the handmaiden of theology, you know, the
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Medievals are correct on that it needs a new it
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: needs a new object. And philosophy historically is a bunch
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: of different things. It's got some self help mixed in there,
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: it's got some mysticism, it's got some science. But it's
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: not the only game in town anymore. We have these
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: other games that are better at it that its own game.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: So philosophy can stick around as a handmaiden, but it
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: needs to find a new I do a new master.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: So that's why I'm saying theory. You know, theory is
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: about political economy and psychoanalysis and structuralist linguistics. It's got
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: a bunch of things that it can do. If you
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: want to get a little abstract with it, you can
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: draw on philosophy. But the Medievals are right that philosophy
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  Speaker 2: is a handmaiden.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: To be a pure philosopher, you basically just we've said
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: it before you have to go do an analytic philosophy
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: program and study language.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: It's interesting and I'm trying to figure out if a
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: lot of the work that I do, like is it
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: philosophy by your definition, or is it something else, because
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: I do feel like a lot of the things I
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: write about is kind of like practical political problems or
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: like like a spective solutions for making something like democracy better.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: But obviously there's a whole bunch of baggage in terms
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: of what we mean by those terms.
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: Uh yeah, I.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Don't know, like like what is what is like like
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: a paper that argues for some institutional design to solve
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: some particular problem, like let's say corruption or like captured
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: by politicians. And I have some normantive argument for why,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: you know, I think the lottery thing we've we've talked
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: about on this podcast, like selection by lottery is better.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Is that doing like philosophy or is that something It's
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: not theory, right, it's it's something else.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: I think that seems like part of part of the
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: kind of not not in a negative sense, but it's
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: part of the the myth making, like the myth political
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: science is the perfect tool of American like myth making
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: in the sense that Pills was talking about it in
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: the latest video. It participates in that. Obviously, the video
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: is looking at the reflecting pool and not political science.
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: But it's the same sort of thing. You're you're you're
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: creating this fiction. Not that it's a bad thing, not
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: in a negative sense. It's just it's it's part of
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: the illusion. It's part of the I mean, what what
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: separates what a political scientist in a university is doing
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: from like a narrative someone's developing in like a private
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: think tank somewhere else in the country.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: Haven't you, Victor, You've described political theory as just a game,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: a puzzle, a mental puzzle, have you.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's true. That's true.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: It is some of sometimes it touches political science, like
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: in terms of it draws on like empirical studies. But yeah,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: it's it's still theory, political theory.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: I think it is, though it's not just philosophy, but
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: philosophical in the sense that its content is about moving
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: abstract objects around, because the content of an abstract object
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: is its signification. So that's the philosophy part coming to
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: help out whatever policy recommend you end up with. But
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: the method of stroking your chin and asking hmm, what
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: does democracy mean? Really, that's philosophy being about itself, being
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: about signification, being about what did other philosophers say democracy was?
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: Maybe downstream policy influence.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: I would say, I would actually say that it's it's
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: those two things coming together, because some of the stuff
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: is very like concrete policy oriented, but still drawing on
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: these like.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: Abstract concepts like it is. It is philosophical cybernetics. It's
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: like steering ideas as if they were real and efficacious,
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: which which is fine.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, if we're up to me, I would
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: have spent more time working on this thought before airing
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: it publicly, but you forced me into it. But it
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: is something like there is a method. The method is argumentation,
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: bio logic. It also has objects. The objects are abstract,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: which is not to say not meaningful, just that their
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: meeting has to come from somewhere or did originally come
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: from some metaphor. So for me, I'm going to say,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: meaning is structured like a language. And that's what philosophers
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: are doing sometimes in fact, often without realizing that they're
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: doing signification in action, which is generating abstract objects, playing
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: with the definition according to argument, according to logic, some
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: of which some of those objects then come from everyday language,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: most of them perhaps come from the history of philosophy,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: this record, this database of signification. But philosophy in the
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: end is nowhere near as important as someone like Huserl,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: for example, thought it was. He thought we could fix
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: all the problems of the European sciences if we remembered philosophy.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: But no, we don't need to do that.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: Outward appearances or inward essences.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Well, then it makes me think about Vickenstein's thing where
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: he said there are moral problems there political like what
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: does he mean by that? Like that like because because
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: in a way, it seems to me to say that
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: there are for example, moral or ethical problems and there
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: are political problems to articulate what those are, it seems
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: unavoidable that you're gonna push up against abstractions.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: Isn't that a kind of like isn't that a kind
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: of pragmatism or realism? Though because like without Witckenstein, we
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: wouldn't have had that whole turn towards like speech acts,
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: like using language as behaviors, how to do things with words,
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: and like I don't know, Yeah, cognitive linguistic, like cognitive
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: linguistics looking at like what is happening in your mind
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: when we're using language, and how it's all like extend
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: and even like going into extended mind theory, like it
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: becomes embodied and substantial, not abstract and just like pure
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: idea oriented. I don't know. I'm meant to say, it's
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: like a kind of pragmatism. I guess pragmatism is good anyway.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: I'm making a modest proposal here that instead of trying
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: to rearrange the clouds in the sky, we begin with
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: concrete objects. And that's I think what there has always
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: been about, because the clouds in the sky, they've been
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: arranged in every possible way, doesn't seem to change much
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: outside of the clouds and how they look.
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: That's very similar to in political theory and democratic theory,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: there's been this turn to what they call realism, but
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: like in a kind of new sense, to what new
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: and old sense, and they and the realists will always
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: not condemned, but they'll be critical of ideal theory, which
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: is like Rawle starts with principles of justice and then
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: tries to apply them to reality, right, and then realism
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: starts with the way institutions and human beings actually function
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: as observed and then builds based up up from there, which.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: Is interesting because it makes me think that like that
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: sounded to me exactly like when modern monetary theorists to
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: explaining what they're talking about, they say that exact same thing.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: We're starting with the way that money actually functions from
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: like basically like an accounting perspective, and then building out
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: from there. We're not starting from the mainstream economic principles
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: and then like sort of deducing how things do work
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: and if they don't work that way, then something's going wrong.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: They're like, no, we're starting with the way that money
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: actually functions and circulates, where it comes from and where
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: it goes, and then like sort of building outwards from
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: bottom up.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, to the things themselves said as earl and then
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: did exactly.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: So yeah, then Heidegger tried to really do it.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: That's the other thing. Then they were like, Okay, philosophy
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: is about language, so let's go study poetry. And then
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: they study the high poets and the high literature and
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: the high high French, high German I'm into low culture. Okay,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: I want I want low culture. I want to I
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: want to look at commercials.
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: And reflecting pools, pop culture Trump. Let's talk about that.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Well, we didn't talk about the news. Are we going
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: to do a news update? It's been a while update
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: just because we have to, because we can't go aside,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: we can't breathe.
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: Well, I could breathe today a lot.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: It smells like a campfire, and.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: The Americans are really mad at us right now. Really
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: sky the sky was red orange.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: It looks like mad Max.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: It was yellow.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it literally looks like it literally looked like a
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Danny ville Neve movie.
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: Like it looked like like a like Dune.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: Like someone put a lens on the camera.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: What's the Cicario.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Ciccario but or or or what's it called? Because Danny
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: ville Neve also did the sequel to what's that sci fi?
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: Blade? Yeah? Blade Runner?
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Like I feel like it happened, Yeah, the Blade Runner
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: four Orange, the Orange you had the Orange e Worlds.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: The air quality warning. I don't I didn't know this
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: could happen. But there's an air quality scale. It's one
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: to ten and it just said ten plus and it
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: was like dark red like maroon. So I don't even
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: know what ten plus is. It's worse the worst.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I actually looked it up because I like, I'm kind
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: of obsessed with biking in the summer. I try to
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: do it every day, And I was asking chat gpt
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: okay with where the two days ago? I was like
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: with where the air quality is right now in Toronto?
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Like what's the could you do a comparative harm of
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: like me going out for a ninety minute bike ride
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: and smoking cigarettes?
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: Like how many? Says like what's the what's the equivalent?
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: And it was like, well, when you're biking and you're
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: pushing yourself, you might be breathing in like six six
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: six to nine times more air than you normally would,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: and like with this level of particle concentration. Obviously it
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: was like it's hard to compare cause cigarettes has all
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: to have all these extra carcinogens. But essentially it was
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: basically like in that time, it would be like smoking
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: like ten cigarettes.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: WHOA, Now this is natural carcinlagens because it's a forest
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: on fire, So it's like smoking a forest, which is
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: good for you.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just stand outside and breathe it in if you're.
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: Smoking, smoking the boreal forest and.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: It helps me. It helped me quit smoking.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Look look look here it is you can if you
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: enter concretely, you can enter the signification structure starting from anywhere.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: So it is indeed healthier to smoke a forest. Now,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: the same strategy is used by American spirit cigarettes because
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: they put an Indian on the cover, on the on
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: the pack, because Indians are signified on the side of nature.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: So it's more natural to smoke American spirit cigarettes than
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: you know, any technological additives put in there.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: And it's interesting the discourse around it on Twitter, at
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: least with angry Americans being like, oh see Trump was right,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: like we need to cut Canada off and Canada needs to.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Build a wall in the air air from coming down,
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: build an air dome to protect them.
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, what would that.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Do if they like stop the Arctic rents from going down?
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: They're just probably we need to need to redirect the
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: jet stream.
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah exactly.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: There's some were they playing soccer. There's some soccer happening,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: some war.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: It's the finals this weekend. We'll see is Argentina gonna win?
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Who knows this will have happened yesterday whenever this someone already,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: someone already won.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: Congrats to just cut out which one it isn't? Congratulations Spain,
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: what a prediction.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: I hope you put a CALSI bet down on that.
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: Cut out the one that doesn't.
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: What else?
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Taylor Swift got married? How's that for everybody?
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, oh the to the football guy, to.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: A football guy in America in New York, but the
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: basketball stadium Madison's We're going.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: And Justin Trudeau is dating that other pop star, right,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: and they make really cringe and spre videos together Katy.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: Perry, and they drink out of red beer.
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: Don't they seem perfect?
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I feel like they're both like exactly the same type
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: of cringe like white person.
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: They just feel like we had to see them twenty
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: years ago for a reason. Now we just have to
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: see them all the.
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: Time for no reason.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so everybody hates them, Yeah, yeah, exactly, So I
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: shouldn't say they're really corny.
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah exactly, exactly. Corny is the exact right word. I think.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: Man on a human level, I feel good for the guy.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, he was like probably the most hated person
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: in the world for a long time, went through divorce,
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: Like everyone just hated this guy. Now he's like he's
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: bouncing back and having a fucking blast.
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: I'll bet on him. I bet, I'll bet he's way
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: happier now than he was when he was Prime minister.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: Oh, I bet he looks like he's having the time
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: of his life, except except for those insane Australian right
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: wing news people that follow him around and like lib
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: bait him all day.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: But like or the people from the Israel or yeah,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: israe levant, the rebel media, they always that guy always
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: follows him around.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, lib bat him and try to like be like,
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: do you care that you murdered people?
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly see what he was.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: He he doesn't care. Disgusting.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the Trudeau body count. I know, he did choose
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: this life and now he's continuing to choose this life.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: But he does seem like the kind of guy you know,
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: you feel bad because he might cry himself to sleep
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: because of this continued, this extended harassment campaign.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, there's so many I mean on the
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: air quality though, Detroit apparently has been even worse than
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Toronto was like yesterday, I'm not sure what it's like today,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: but it was like absurdly, Like there's another measure of
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: the air quality, which is like in the hut, Like
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I think Toronto at its worst yesterday
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: it was like at three hundred or something, and in.
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: Detroit it was like five point fifty.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: It's like crazy, crazy, thick, and all those Michiganders were
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: furious with Canada, like it's our fault.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, recreational recreational forest fire setting is a thing up here,
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: in case you didn't.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Know, the boreal Fourth actually learned sucated to myself on
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: the boreal forest and how it's just so remote. And
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: it was also interesting how there's dueling narratives on Twitter. God,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: I almost said X, that's shameful. What whatever call I
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: refuse to call it X. But you know, all the
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: all the lib all the libs and lefties are like
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: climate change, like see this is what happens when you don't,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: which I think is more certainly more plausible than the
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: narrative that the where.
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: The right is.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Well, actually maybe both narratives have a grain of truth
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: to them, to be honest. So yeah, the left is
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: all about see this is what you get for, you know,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: not participating in climate policies America, like like to take
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: a breath.
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: Of what it feels like to not care about climate change.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Breathe in that like lack of climate change awareness, and then.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: Your fossil fuel wealth, and then.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: All the Republicans are just see what happens when you
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: have a socialist country that doesn't know how to manage
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: their like infrastructure, like they don't know how to buy
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: like And then there's also a weird narrative within Canada
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: on the right, where like if only can that hadn't
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: given like foreign aid to Palestine, they could have used
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: that money.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: More yeah, no, to buy more like more planes.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: It's obviously the fault of the Conservative Ontario government for
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: cutting all that funding to rain dance education.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: And then I looked up like the kind of what
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: experts in boreal forest fires had to say, and it's,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just a very difficult problem to solve,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Like very briefly, I learned that in many cases they're
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: in extremely remote areas, like far away from population centers,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: and it's usually the result of lightning strikes in somewhat
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: dry conditions. Sometimes the fire actually starts very like quietly
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: underground in like this moss. You'll have this like underground
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: network of like burning stuff. And then by the time
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: though fires like blazing, even like you can't get to
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: it right because it's so remote. And then even the
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: airplanes that are like dropping masses of water on it.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's so hot that it's essentially like spitting on
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: a campfire, like it it evaporates before it even reaches
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: the like the fire. So it's like it's it's just
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: you can't really do anything about it, Like you can try,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: but it's just futile.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: I don't know about other places too, but Ontario has
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: been progressively cutting its forest firefighting budget for years, which
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: is yeah, which this is undeniably the wrong time to
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: be doing. That should be increasing although it does make
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: anyway so firefighting.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Although it does make perfect sense given the mythic structure
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: that they're working with, given that a a natural disaster
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: i e. Nature as cause is aligned with the socialist
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: government of Canada. The radical left wing and nature are
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: both conspiring together because both are fundamentally opposed to the
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: goals of civilization in America.
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, we should.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: We should use the water from the from the reflecting pool.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Yes, the real news. The real news of the month
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: is the reflecting pool.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, which I didn't know about any of this.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: So there's been fourteen million dollars to change the pool's
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: color blue that all.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: The pills give us, give us a little give us
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: a little rundown. Since your latest video was about this,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: and I will say that I saw news headlines about
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: the reflecting pool and Trump, and it was one of
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: those times when I was like a Trump and reflecting pool,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't care, Like I'm not
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: going to read about this, So I didn't actually ever
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I didn't actually ever read about it. So I learned
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: the details from your video, and it made me regret
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: not reading about it because it is actually very funny.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: So tell us about it.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: It's beautiful, it's a beautiful event. Well I want to.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: I think probably most of our audience has seen it,
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: so watched the video. The lowdown is that Obama let
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Washington DC rot and all the monuments were destroyed under
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Obama because he's.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: A Muslim socialist.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: Exactly, Muslims and socialists famous for neglecting to take care
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: of monuments and architecture. So what always happens, So then
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Trump hires this cartoonish Florida used car dealership looking guy.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, look it up if you haven't seen it.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: He's a disgusting He's got a giant cigar in his mouth.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: He's like probably late seventies, so his hair's white, but
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: he just dyed it like jet black and it's kind
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: of like thinning and sitting on his head villainously. He's
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: got like a thirty year old woman with plastic surgery
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: face under his arm, and he's in a maroon, like
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: a dusty looking maroon suit. So just like classic villain
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: Monstroum and Fronte, like disgusting looking dude, cartoonish, and he
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: pays him. He pays him. I guess there's a liner
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: and then paint, so I guess he pays him, I
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: don't know, eighteen million dollars or something to put liner
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: down and then paint the liner this color that's supposed
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: to be very special, American flag blue. But American flag blue,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: it's it's a lot darker than the gray that it
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: used to be. So the pool gets very hot because
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: of whatever light diffraction.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it makes the pool warmer, Yeah, warms it up.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: So it got warm and then there's the worst algae
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: bloom in six years or something like that. I think
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: that pool often has problems with algae. But again, everything
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Trump says about this is just completely insane. It has
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: nothing to do with reality. Like he said, Obama spent
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: three hundred million dollars fixing it. That didn't happen. He
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: said this was gonna last for fifty years without without
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: break or out anyone needing to touch it. It lasted
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: five days.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: Before leftist Antifa vandals snuck in during the night at
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: three am and poured algae into the pool and put
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: and slit a huge gash in it with a box cutter.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: What the fuck is that part about?
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: There's different stories. Trump thinks that someone put fertilizer into
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: the water, which caused algae. QAnon thinks that Antifa super
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: soldiers put put Georgia algae into the water and Georgia algae.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Trump also thinks that there was a two hundred foot
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: gash cut that was then three hundred, then three hundred
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: and fifty foot gash. It changes each time or gets
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: bigger each time. But this is new reporting. Since new
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: reporting from the Washington Post, they got four pool expert
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: guys to look at. They documented where all the pay
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: or the stuff is peeling, the liner whatever it is,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: where it's peeling, and then pictures of how is laid down.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: So they got four experts because we're in a technocracy,
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: of course technocracy Washington Post, and they said, this is
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: very clearly an installation problem, like this is it happened.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: The cuts are not gashes in the liner, their gashes
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: or the seams or what's like lifting up because water
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: got under it because it wasn't installed properly. So all
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: of this stuff, there's there's arrests, there's lockdowns like there,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: there's there's fence put up, there's National Guard deployed just
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: like patrolling patrolling the pool looking for Antifa vandals who
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: are trying to cut holes in in the pool. So
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: of course none of this, none of this actually happened.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: It's his own fault and his own cartoonish villain who
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: are responsible for this. Then all the jokes come, you know,
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: he's finally created a swamp that he can drain. But
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: the point is, of course, none of the meaning that
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Trump needs to be in reality is there. So he
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: needs to generate the the narrative or he needs to
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: generate the myth about why this pool has suddenly turned green,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: and the way he does it being the semiotic genius
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: that he is. The way that he is is by
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: pulling on a deep mythic structure, one that which we're
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: all I argue, eminently familiar unconsciously.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but facts don't matter in this situation, is it.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: It's the or it's the it's the social fact of
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: it that counts, not the not the truth behind the narrative.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Also, if you've watched the video, there's some some other
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: breaking news today. Taco Bell lettuce has been recalled since
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: it was infected with cyclo cyclospariasis today.
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: Apparently it's been giving parasites an explosive going around. It
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: lasts for a month.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, woof drink lots of water.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: The Antifa terrorists probably this one too. They're targeting the
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: symbols of civilization like Taco Bell.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know this. This uh, this narrative structure
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: that you point out, I think is is very is
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: very interesting and I'm curious. So some of the main
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: features I guess that you identified. One of them is
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: sort of like the opposition between order and nature, right,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: or or that was one of them, right, order versus nature.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I think it's civilization or culture versus nature
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: is the big recursive split.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Right, And then that's why like Antifa is like a
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: source for and then algae obviously itself is like nature
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: running wild and rampant. And then you know the the
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: the laying down the law. Uh, you know, we're going
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: to make things better. Is the is the like culture
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: the true civilization. And then there's like a purity versus contamination,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: uh dichotomy, which is related right, like contaminated by by
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: the wilds of nature.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: I suppose any of them can occupy the space of
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: like the organizing binary under which all the other distinctions
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: are sort of placed or aligned. But yeah, civilization and
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: nature usually, yeah, purity on civilization side and contamination and
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: chaos on the side of nature. And male and female
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: yeah was.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, very amusingly, you know, kind
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: of the masculine and feminine or male versus female roles, right,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: the which which Pills identified with the very odd I
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: had not seen this press conference. Very strange of Trump
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: saying that his the reflecting pool is taller than a skyscraper,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: like it made no sense. It was so weird, like
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: even for him, that was that seemed very bizarre, and
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: like why, like what was the relevance. Was there a
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: broader context to that or was it just him in
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: the context of making making it better. He's like, we're
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: going to make the reflecting pool better. But by the way,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: if you like, if you were to stand it vertically.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: It's the big dick energy.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like like it would be taller than a bunch
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: of skyscrapers, although not also in the not even the
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: tallest at all.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this, this horizontal hole in the ground is taller
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: than a concrete build like what I love very start.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Actually it's negative space. It's taller than it's it's it's
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: more if a building wasn't there, it's smaller than that.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's trying to devaginoate it because if
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: it's a vaginal project, it's not worth working on. But
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: it is a wet hole in the ground, So if
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: you if you turn it up sideways and compare it
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: to skyscrapers, then he's working on something big rather than
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: something lacking.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there's some kind of.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: But then it gets infected. It's an infected vulva.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: Oh, it's that least infection, algae infection.
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: Of course.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: Of course, men have always resented women for having the
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: productive power of child bearing, so they need to compare well,
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: Look I can build this building. Look how tall my
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: buildings are? Fuck you, child bearer.
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: I've never found that narrative that convincing.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: I never felt like there's there's like an the unconscious
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: resentment for their.
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: Child wearing.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: Well, controlling women's bodies and their sexuality has definitely been
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: a proxy way of controlling reproduction.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: It's also the like the void, the absence that you
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: can't see past the gates or past the surface of
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: the sea. So you got to go in again because
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: you know everything's driving you to go in again. But
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: you don't want to get caught up in there because
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: it might decide to swallow you again. It's where you
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: came from, so might change its mind.
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: I agree with all of that. It's just the thing
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: that there's a latent resentment. That's the thing that I
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: don't know.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: I've never I've heard that in some feminist literature and
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: stuff like.
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: I've never really found that.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: By proxy you can, if you can control women's bodies.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: You can have the power of childbirth without actually having
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: the damage done well, exactly, at the best of both worlds,
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: you could make more people.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: There was a time, very likely when there was a resentment,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: when there was no mechanism to be certain about like
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: fatherhood or what's.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: The word I'm looking for, paternity.
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: Paternity.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no mechanism to no paternity for certain, So
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: there was probably a resentment and suspicion there where it's like, well,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know for sure if it's mine, because who
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: knows what you were doing behind my back?
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: Right well, and in structuralism, what we're talking about one
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: of the primary I mean, when Levi Strauss gets together
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: all those versions of the of the Oedipus story, he says,
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: one of the primary organizing binaries besides like culture and
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: nature is was it over determination of blood relations? Under
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: its termination of blood relations? But then another one is
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: being the tension of being born from two versus being
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: born from one, so having two parents, but like say
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: the Promethean story, man was like shaped from clay of
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: the earth and produced from like one a single father
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: parents kind of situation, and a lot you see this
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: in a lot of Greek myths too, right, like Zeus
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: gives birth to Athena from his thigh, Promethean shapes man
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: from clay, that that autocthenous birth situation.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: We emerge from the dark void the earth, the bosom
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: of the earth.
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: And I just pointed it out because I think that's
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: I mean, comparing a hole in the a wet hole
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: in the ground to man made buildings quote unquote man
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: made buildings is definitely like a weird clash of the
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: two sides of that opposition, maybe unconsciously.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: And we've covered this recent like in the last couple
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: of months, the primitives in the jungle getting starlink. That
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: was a whole explosion over don't corrupt these people. Don't
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: corrupt these virginal, properly patriarchal people with gender roles. That
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: was Michael Knowle's reading of it. And also with the Slaughterdike,
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: we had Slaughterdike the human zoo. The zoo. The zoo's
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: a perfect example of this space that that negotiates nature
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: versus culture, because if we make zoos too too natural,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: like the enclosures are too big so that the animals
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: can have privacy, and we give the animals, all these
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: human rights that to have privacy and run free. Then
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: there's no point in the zoo because if you're a
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: spectator and you go to the z you can't see
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: any animals. You just see you see the trees.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: Right, it's the liminal the liminal space.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: This wasn't the whole diagram, the whole web or net
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: of signs. I didn't I didn't plan. I didn't see
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: it at the start. It just kind of as I
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: read about the story, it kept kind of adding to
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: it and adding to it. And then you see the
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: masculine side of civilization and the feminine side as nature
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: and nature's getting out of control. One's linear, whene's cyclical,
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: one's clean, when's dirty? And yeah, we trying to figure
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: out where this goes back to. I thought of Rousseau.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know how far it goes back. It's probably
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: it's probably ancient, but you see it in like Rousseau
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: and the moderns. Half of them say, you know, nature's
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: bad and evil and dangerous, and that's why we need states.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: And then the other half go, well, states are bad,
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: and we need to go back to the perfect equality
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: and harmony that we used to have in the state
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: of nature.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: So the fallus is in there importantly too, right, like
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: not the literal penis, but the symbolic, the symbolic phallus
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: because when when Well, what I was gonna say is, like,
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: with all these organizing binaries, structuralism seems to sort of
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: found like the algorithm of when you look at any text,
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: the master algorithm that the text is produced of courd
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: like what organizes the text. Yeah, these these structural binaries
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: and oppositions. But I was going to say, when Darida
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: reads Rousseau, he sees that he makes that connection between
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: that the act of was it writing his biography and
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: writing the biography and masturbation Rousseau. That yeah, that's like
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: the central sort of organizing point. Russeau's like disavowing masturbation
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: by writing a biography. I forget how the argument sort
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: of goes symbolic masturbate the symbolic Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: symbolic masturbation.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: He's symbolic raising of the self.
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: Darida always does that thing where he finds he finds
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: like a point where something is disavowed, but then finds
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: it's actually confirmed by other parts of the text and
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: becomes this like organizing point that you can pull on,
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: and everything else kind of comes apart with it. And
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: he finds that in Russo's Confessions. I think it was, Yeah,
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: he finds that in Russo's and and it has to
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: do again with the phallus.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: We were also talking a little bit before we started
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: recording about the last episode that we recorded, where we
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: had where we welcomed Diego back, and the debate was
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: about the role of imperialism, how do we define imperialism,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: How on what grounds are we going to be critical
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: of Western imperialism and in what sense is there also
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: potentially a global South or Eastern imperialism?
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: Is Russia acting imperialistic?
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: And I would say that Diego was somewhat apologetic or
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: sympathetic to kind of counter Western forces vis of each
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: China and Russia. But one of the things that I
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: felt came through that I didn't say at the time,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: but kind of in retrospect, because it felt like, and
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: you know, Diego, if you're listening, you can correct me
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: if I'm wrong here. But it seemed to me that
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: insofar as the kind of Diego position that wants to
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: be critical of the West, which I share by the
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: way many of the criticisms of the West, you know,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: to be critical means you are assuming that the thing
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: that you're being critical of has agency. Because if a
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: thing doesn't have agency, then on what grounds can you
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: be critical? Right, because it couldn't have So you're critical
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: of the way the West acts because so the West
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: has agency. But then whenever I would kind of challenge
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: and say, well, what about what Russia's doing, you know,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: invading Ukraine for example, and said, well, they had to, right,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: they had to, because that's protecting their sovereignty. There's a
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: kind of autopoesis and materialist dialectic going on where they
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: have to protect their sovereignty. So I was sort of
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: talking about my feeling about that conversation before we recorded,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: and Pills pointed out, well that there's another binary, right,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: there's another binary where it's like the West is civilization,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: it has agency, and the rest is to the rest
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: the West, the rest doesn't have agency. It's just nature, right,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: It just it is functioning according to the forces, the
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: material forces that are happening. And therefore I guess the
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: moral upshot is they can be excused because they're just
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: acting according to nature. The West is the only thing
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: that has agency, so they can be you know, condemned.
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: The West becomes like kind of the subject of history,
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: and then the world becomes the sort of object of
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: the if you want to put it in like the
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: grimass semiotic arctantial model. Yeah, the West becomes the subject actant,
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: and it has the agency and the object is delivered
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: operated on. It's the object of the action. It doesn't
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: have any agency itself, which is usually the damsel in
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: distress or something like that.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the spear, the sphere of nature. I mean, they
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: both have laws, right, but one is like a voluntary
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: law or you follow it conventionally. In the in the
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: sphere of civilization, you don't act automatically. You act in
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: accordance with morality or virtue, and that's your choice. But
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: the sphere of nature, where trees grow and animals kill
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: each other, they're automatic. So they're for the world.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: Where Russia invades Ukraine automatic Rushia Russia.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Russia had to because their sphere was in danger.
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: You know, it really is interesting that of the last
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: one hundred thousand invasions that that has happened in the
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: history of humanity nine and ninety nine, nine and ninety
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: nine all said that they just had no choice, that
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: they had to do it. It was forced them. So you know,
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: the odds are it was forced on Russia that they
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: had to invade Ukraine. Now I don't think this is
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Diego's position, but it is the very common anti imperialist
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: position that everything that has happened in history or in
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: the let's be more generous, everything that has happened in
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: the last fifty years was completely at the design of
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: a tyrannical United States of America imposing its will upon
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: the rest of the world to some degree. You know,
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: obviously there's degrees of truth, but the narrative is a
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: little bit too neat when it says all the moral
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: culpability is on one party. One party is active, one
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: party is passive, one party has will, the other has
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: none at all. Well, of course, if you look at
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: things a little more analytically, there's some there's some distribution happening.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: There's some sense in which a lot of things are
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: too big for a single agent to control. Now, since
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Diego is not here, I think the generous read of
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: his position, though, is not the typical anti imperialist, saying
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: the United States is bad and everyone else's shades of gray.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: I think what he's saying is that, in terms of autopoiesis,
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: autopoisis is a very deterministic term to apply to nation
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: states because it treats them as you know, evolving organisms
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: that don't really make active decisions. Auto police is largely
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: a passive or automatic process. But I'm going to say
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: I think that Diego thinks that what the United States
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: does is automatic as well. And the reason why he
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: makes the argument that he does is because you can't
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: reason moralistically with a machine. You can't, you can't appeal
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: to a machine's good nature. So then he swings the
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: other way on that and says, well, you can't. You
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: can't argue rationally with a machine, so the only thing
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: to be done is to oppose the machine with another machine.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: I don't think he usually resorts to moralistic arguments against
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: United American imperial domination.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: I don't want to strongly claim that that Diego would
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: agree with my framing. I'm sure he would disagree with it.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: It's just through the process of the conversation, this implication
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: from my perspective kind of emerged, and then I'm sure
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: he would have some sort of response to you know,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: to be charitable. I don't you know, I'm not trying
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: to say that he would be like, yeah, that's right.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: I think it's actually a consequence that I feel like
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: follows from some of the arguments being made.
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: But I'm sure he has a response.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: To that, regardless of whether he thinks that and frames
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: it as active, passive or civilization nature. There are definitely
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: anti imperialists inside the empire that do function their narrative
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: functions by those terms that the Empire is going out
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: and exploiting and killing these powerless people who are somehow
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: living in peace and harmony until we came with our
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: agency and messed up there harmonious relationship. But Diego, I
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: don't know, it's too easy. He did say Russia had
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: to do it, and if that's true, well then Israel
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: had to do it too, you know, And I think
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: Diego might come out somewhere actually on that side that says, yeah,
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: everyone is automatic. Everyone had to do it, and that's
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: why he is a representative of the third world. Must
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: make friends of his enemies, enemies and so on.
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, but that's exactly what I pointed out.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: I think I said, well, like if that's your account,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: then then the West is also part of it. And
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: they they're just America just had to, you know, they
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: have to expand NATO.
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: They're just pretty you know, they have to. It's the same,
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: it's the same thing.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: But this is why in the forest fires, we have
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: to blame the left wing for causing the forest fires,
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: because we can't blame the forest the forest. In the forest,
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: things happen automatically.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: Well you know, imperialism and war or forest fires and
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: poor air quality. Like the traumatic element to that seems
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: pretty natural to use that.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Do go on, sir, that sounds fascinating.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: I mean, like, you know, war is and forest fires
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: and climate change, like they are traumatic in themselves. I
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: don't know, I'm not gonna articulate this very well. I
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: was going to point out that the hilarious thing about
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: the reflecting pool debacle is is the traumatic element of
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: the whole thing is completely manufactured, like it didn't at
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: all need to fucking happen, and there's absolutely no stakes
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: involved except Trump's ego. But there's like full damage control
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: and Fox News spin being put and like the National
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: Guard was brought in, like they're treating it like a
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: real forest fire, and it's completely hyper real, manufactured event
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: that never really happened. Spend fourteen million dollars to change
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: it blue and it went green, and Trump was symbolically castrated.
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: And now there's Antifa plots involved in the National Guard,
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: and there's people being arrested and threatened to go to
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: jail for ten years over this whole thing, completely manufactured
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: element of trauma, which isn't But the traumatic is important
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: in all this like structuralism and binary too, because that
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: encounter with the other, with nature is also like a
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: traumatic encounter, right, Like I don't know what was Conrad
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: thinking when he wrote Heart of Darkness or something like that,
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: you know, the traumatic encounter with the other and going
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: natural and all that sort of stuff. But it's just
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: funny with the reflecting pool.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, just an obligatory qualification there that hyperreal
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean fake. But I mean it's interesting you put
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: in that. The term with the trauma is the trauma
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: is always a fiction, right, or the the cause of
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: the trauma always has a ficted element. It becomes a
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: necessary part in the story, but it's not. It doesn't
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: it's not clear why that's such a big deal, Like, oh,
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: your mom loves your dad too, now you're traumatically separated
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: from her for the rest of the time. But it's
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: like Trump's Trump's fictional trauma is too fictional, Like it's
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: too obviously fictional that no one should be taking this seriously,
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: and yet we're all forced to. We're all compelled to
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: participate in a very obviously fake trauma. So all these
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: like hangers on who want a piece of the pie,
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: they have to call, they have to gather around this
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: like psychotic a deluded, insane person and confirmed to him
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: and to the rest of the world via you know,
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: Fox News that these delusions are part of reality now
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: and then that they become part of reality.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, I was just gonna say, it's that, you know,
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: the reflecting pool kind of to contextualize what's going on
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: with Trump. I think this is also an effort for
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: him to leave his mark, you know, the same thing happened,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: which I don't think I'm gonna be able to extract
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: a fun binary out of it, but it was very
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: amusing to me also that he tried to change the
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: Kennedy Center to the like Donald Trump Kennedy Center, and
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: then a judge ruled that he can't do that, so
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: then they then they took off they like the workers
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: went and started peeling the letters off of the building,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: the Trump letters, because the judge ruled, And they live
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: streamed it so the libs could watch it with satisfaction,
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: like they live streamed it on a bunch of websites
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: and just so that they could watch Trump losing. And
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, he is doing really funny, bizarre things. And
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: I think the reflecting pool is like I'm gonna, I'm
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: gonna turn it blue and then people remember that, you know,
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: now it's American blue and that's a thing that Trump
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: did to make to make Washington more beautiful or whatever.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: Well, that's very that's a very phallic you know, leading
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: to needing to leave the positive mark. Yes, I think
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: there's a connection to trauma here via the mythic dimension
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: that you know, we know we're going to be reclaimed
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: by nature at some point, we're gonna we're gonna get
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: eaten by the worms, and we're gonna dust to dust
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: and all that stuff. That's kind of why the response
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: to it is so anxious. Don't let it take me.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: Don't let it take me. Don't let me die without
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: making a bark.
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the turning green and that whole how you brought
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: in that, like is nature coming into civilization where it
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: shouldn't be, and the work of civilization has to be
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: pure and clean and sterile. And when nature comes in,
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: it's like a sign of decay and chaos entering into
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: the perfect order of things. And the whole reflecting pool
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: is an interesting kind of order, right, because like the
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: architect made it, and he made all these illusions, like
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: made it a little bit thinner at one end, and
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: like it's deeper in the middle, but so it looks
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: more perfectly rectangular, and like all this stuff to make
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: it look like this nice classical neoclassical kind of symmetrical
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: point of view you can get from standing at the
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: base of it. Whereas which is funny because I was
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: just looking at the Impressionist exhibit yesterday in Toronto, and
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: they are also painters who are very concerned with painting reflections. Monet,
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: for example, always painting water with reflections in it. But
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: their reflections are like anti classical art. They're they're driven
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: by that. So the reflections often be like disturbed water
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: with broken reflection of whatever's above it in the water
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: painted impressionistically. Just let your mind fill into details. Fine,
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: not the realist.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: The two mirrored sides, one of nature, one of civilization.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: And there's a constant I think, if you just like
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: look at the history of literature, there's constant unconscious expression
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: of the fear that civilization's about to fall apart, right,
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: and factually I don't think it ever does fall apart.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: And uh yeah. All the way back to Levy Strauss,
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: Levy Strauss wrote these four giant tomes on Amerindian myths
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: or whatever the correct term for that is Indigenous American
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: myths all the way from the Amazon all the way
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: up to the Arctic, and they have these families of
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: myths and their explanation or the common explanation. And the
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: Raw and the Cooked is a really famous book he wrote.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: But raw on the Cooked is the animals at one
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: point were the civilized ones. The animals can change shape,
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: their magic, their dream dream beings, and at some point
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: humans steal the fire from them. They have it. They
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: can cook and we can't. But the animals we steal
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: the fire from them, and then that's like the beginning
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: of the ascendancy of man. Same thing with the the
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: Promethean myth, the fire is stolen, but the notion there
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: is like we didn't we didn't earn our spot, we
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: stole our spot. So now we're at the top. It
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: used to be the animals at the top. They had
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: their powers, they could transform into different shapes. Then we
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: took the fire. Now we're the civilized ones. So ultimately
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: this is reversible, and the reversibility of it, I think
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: it shows the underlying anxiety that you see in so
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: many types of literature myths, stories like the immigrants are coming,
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: Western civilization is dying, the chaos in the Shakespearean plays,
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: when a bad king is in charge, the entire realm
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: descends into chaos and murder and death. A good king
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: comes and you know, so, anyway, I think it's a
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: pretty deep seated anxiety that civilization it's not earned, and
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: it might be at any point fall apart. It might
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: be at any point this repressed animal nature might return.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: And yeah, that's why that division has to be maintained.
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and the Promethean myth, at least when Prometheus and
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: Zeus are basically like in a big fight, and Prometheus
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: gives fire to mankind, and it kind of represents I guess,
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: I don't know, there's different readings whatever, but it represents
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: the human beings becoming more independent of the gods. And
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, I guess you could say it represents technology progress.
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: Whatever it's been. It's been used as all kinds of
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: different things. But the myth specifically is the founding myth
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: of sacrifice to the gods, because it comes out that Okay,
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: the god's the human I mean, and the Greeks always
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: do this. You might see this in the Odyssey film
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: if it includes a sacrifice scene where you burn the
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: bones and the fat of any meat you're eating. You
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: eat the meat, but you burn the bones as a
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: sacrifice to the gods. And that's that's why. That's that's
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: the result that comes out of the Prometheus fire deceiving
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: Zeus story in Zoos punishing Prometheus back.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds like the the Amerindian fire stealing myths too,
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: in that it's reversible, right, So in the case, in
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: the case of sacrifice, you have something that doesn't belong
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: to you, so you kind of have to pay rent
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: on it continually, so the gods are still happy with you,
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: because at any time their mood might change and they
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: might take it back. If they take back fire, you
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: go back to the dark ages.
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: You guys started talking a little bit from anthropology or
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: I guess some of these.
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: I don't know if you consider would you consider Levey
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: Stross an anthropologist? I guess, I know, yes, structural structural anthropologist. Yeah,
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: so there was a there's a report recently. I don't
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: know if you guys saw another kind of x or
• 57:13
  Speaker 4: it I call it x Agenji's What's wrong with me? Twitter?
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: Cut that out? Well, another another another.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: Twitter discourse on kind of the anti woke, right, I
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: guess well. Vanderbilt University released a report kind of on
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: the state of the humanities and social science, and one
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: of the things they pointed out was that anthropology has
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: become like very politicized, and that it's it's only interested
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: in like it lacks a kind of rigor because it's
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: so motivated by certain kinds of social justice outcomes or whatever.
• 57:46
  Speaker 4: I'm sure all of us can.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: Kind of recognize what they're talking about. And then in
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: the Chronicles of Higher Education, kind of a very notable anthropologist.
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: What is her name rouss something, Uh, yeah, it's what's
• 58:05
  Speaker 4: her name? I guess, I don't yeah, Carolyn Rouse, I don't.
• 58:09
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: I'm not in on the anthropology literature. But she's apparently
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: the president of the American Anthropological Association. And she came
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: out kind of defended h anthropology is a discipline and said, yeah,
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: it has to be. It has to start from a
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: place of I think, as she put it, fighting the.
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: Power, right that that what really?
• 58:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: That like yeah, she basically said, like the it's you know,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: the report in in Vanderbilt was lacking some rigor, was
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: was cherry picky. But then she said, ultimately it's good
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: that anthropologies focuses on addressing power structures and that's fundamental
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: to what makes it like good scholarship. And then obviously
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: the right how to feel day with that and and
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: and laughed at her and said that that's like that
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: that she's just basically proving their point.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: I'm lacking context. But that's that's an insane thing to say.
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: But you know that's the issue, I mean, another divide.
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure if this maps onto structuralism. But the
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: sciences and the humanities, right, like anthropology and like psychology
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: and sociology and economics and all those quote unquote human
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: sciences occupy this weird middle space, right, because psychologists want
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: to pretend to be objective, unbiased and scientific, and look,
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: we apply the scientific method and we get objective results
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: that are free from any kind of bias, the subjective bias, right,
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: And they do that because that's what gets the funding.
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: So for a human scientist to come out and say, no,
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: anthropology does have an interest in the objective study, and
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: anthropologists anthropology has as a structurally in built kind of
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: I don't know again quote unquote bias towards the well
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: being of the objects of study, then that's like, oh, no,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: you're not a science, you're not. Your objectivity has been compromised, right,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: which is otherwise anthropology such a fascinating discipline historically, yeah,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: rooted in you know, sociology was designed by Western scholars
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: to study advanced civilizations. Anthropology was designed to study non
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: Western primitive people. So they have a bit of a
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: pr problem. They should rename all of it.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just put it in the chat. I think
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: it's behind a paywall the full article. But this is
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: apparently the one where she where ress comes out and defends,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: defends the discipline.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: But fight the power. That's not a quotation.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: Sure, it might be addressing power structures or undermining, like power.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: Structure, undermine. Well, these are very different. Addressing. Addressing is like, Okay,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: here's an application of our work.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: But under to find the full article, you know, yeah,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: that's I think, Yeah, I think anyway, But yeah, the
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, the Twitter discourse was going, uh uh.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: There's a blurry line between exposing and opposing power structures,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: isn't there?
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: Though, Well, yeah, yeah, and I'm not I'm not gonna
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: say that anthropology like even Levy Strauss's structural anthropology, which
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: is I don't know if any I don't know if
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: any Americans do that, but he does say like, if
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: you're if you're looking at this unconscious structure, if you're
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: trying to find a way in like we did with
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: the with the the pool, if you find a way in,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: then you're creating causation there simply by studying the mechanism,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: because it is sort of an unconscious thing that everyone
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: has that everyone shares, because we share the same science system.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: So there is it's not it's not objective, and it
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: at its best, it's not trying to be objective. It's
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: trying to be explanatory. And explaining a cultural myth means explaining.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: Yourself, Yeah, ethnography.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: But to bring in like a militant Oh, I'm undermining
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: the power. The purpose of anthropology, I don't think is
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: that undermine myths. It's to recognize that they're there. And
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: maybe maybe she's saying it for funding, which is the
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: best case scenario. But if anthropology anthropology is a militant
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: discipline is about as corny as Justsin Trudeau and Katie Perish.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is like, yeah, I mean there's people
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: I think I got to fighting the power thing from
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: someone tweeting about it in sane Oh my god, this
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: woman thinks that fighting the power is the essence of
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: serious thinking.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, I don't see what's wrong with that, but
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: I could see the psychotic anti woke right not liking that, And.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't know enough about how
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: anthropology is practiced in the academy to know for sure,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: but I do know that there are some disciplines that
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: which you know, from what I've heard, at least sociology, anthropologies, whatever,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: any discipline that starts with the word critical in front
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: of it, right, like critical disability studies, critical race theory,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: critical whatever, probably have a kind of a scho kind
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: of have an activist mentality to them, which is good,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: could be good, and could be bad depending on the
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: context and what we're talking about.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: Well, at least a core part of like a Humanity's degree,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: like back I remember back from this a good a
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: good chunk of it. You're looking at ethnography and ethnographic methods,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: and like starting with what anthropologists do, which is usually
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: they have a placement and they go live with a
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: tribe and they have to ingratiate themselves and become like
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: insider observers and have informants, and then write like an
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: ethnography where you do this like thick detailed description of
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: the people and whatever thing you're interested in, building on
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: previous anthropologists' work obviously, and then and then in a
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: humanities degree, then you might move on to say, okay, now,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: like if we're going to do culture studies, we can
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: adapt ethnographic methods to study modern cultures. And you use
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: because your involvement. You're not objective. You're involved in it,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: and you have to be. You are by definition involved
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: in your culture, and you can apply the ethnographic methods
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: to studying your culture and the Western culture for example.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: This is what Bougiart does. I guess and then that
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: that exposing power structures is exactly why the right is
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: always so sensitive about it, because the right is fundamentally
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: like aligned with power structures, and so when someone comes
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: along and exposes them, they go, oh, no, we can't
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: have that.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: I think to from from some quick background reading I
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: just did to try to get a more generous view
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: of what Rause said. I think her point is since
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: anthropologists study power inequality like they're going to come up
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: against these things in their analysis of culture humanity, you know,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: those questions are going to naturally arise, So, you know,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: I think the way that she would put it is,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: I reject the idea that we should remain neutral on
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: those structures because we're going to see them all the time.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: We're going to see structures is very differently different from
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: we have to fight the power. It sounds like you
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: got duped by hysterical right wing anti wokes.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 4: No, I mean I think.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, I just thought it was an interesting discourse
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: that I hadn't read up on yet I didn't. Maybe
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: I did get duped in a way, but I wasn't
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: necessarily taking switch. I wasn't taking a stand.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: You got baited.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: Bart understands mythology as just the naturalization of arbitrary relationships,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: so idioticy ideology pretty simply. And that's what I Yeah,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: that's what I was trying to get at too, is
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: this is all You find one point, and then you
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: find what someone says about that point, and it leads
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: to another point. You find what someone said about the
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: next point. You read the New York Times on the
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: same issue, you read whoever, You read a skitz out
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: Twitter poster on it, and the and the structure keeps expanding,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: and then it makes so much more sense of what
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: someone says, like Fox News makes so much more sense
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: when you have the graph and all the connections of
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: point to point in front of you. But yeah, I
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: think you're right when you say they don't want they
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: want the mythology to be naturalized, because then when someone
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: like says, hey, that's an arbitrary relationship, then they go no.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: You're a social constructivist.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, mythological feat figures like Elves or Helen of Troy,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: they can be they are not allowed to be black,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: but they can be blonde.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly if you're.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: A constructivist now, and that's bad because you think all
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: everything is arbitrary, all these social relationships. But yeah, no,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: it's good, but.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: You got to be it has to be, like the
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: anxiety has to be at an all time high because
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: one of the other one of the other qualities of
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: this civilization is progress, which is a linear form of time.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: And this is a fear of the cyclical time of destruction, rebirth, destruction,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: or cycles. And it seems like socially culturally, socio culturally
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: make a big word out of it. Socio culturally, we've
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: given up on the progress thing. So cycles, cycles of war,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: cycles of death and rebirth. That's the other option that
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: we're waiting for, the we're waiting for the end to come.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: It looks like they just want to be now naturalizing
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: what by giving them causal explanations like oh, this is
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 3: the way it should it's because men are hunters and
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 3: women are too weak to do that, so they need
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: to do the lysol and clean.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: The house exactly. This is this is like one of
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: Levy Strauss's underrated points that I looked at, looked, looked
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: it up and found that he said it. But there
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: are no facts in myth. They're like if there's if
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: there's things that happen to line up with something else,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: that's completely arbitrary, Like there's no fact of dirtiness. There's
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: no such thing.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, like germs, yeah are our phobia of
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: germs is a very modern phobia, isn't it.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: I even mean like dirt, because what is dirt chemical
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: composition of organic matter, what the ground is made out of.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: You need you need cleanliness to have dirtiness exist.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: Wet sand.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: It's a signification state because you need to If I
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: look at you and you got like I don't know,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: dirt on your dirt on your skin, or dirt on
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: your shoes, you have dirt on you, but the fact
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: of dirty or or the floor of your house, and
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: I see there's like fuzz because you haven't vacuumed in
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: a while. You need the convention to exist. You need
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: the convention of clean shoes and clean floors turn into law,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: or like I don't mean law law. I mean like
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: cultural law. The law of the land has to be
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: a certain form of cleanliness for dirtiness to exist, and
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: that level of cleanliness is only possible at a level
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: of you know, technological capacity, or the floors are no
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: longer made out of dirt unless you change the context,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: like you're playing soccer in the rain. Now it's completely permitted,
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: completely within the zone of non disgust, for you to
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: be dirty. So the fact there might be outside of
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: signific location, a chemical compound composition of whatever dirt is
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: made out of, I don't know, rotten grass or rotten leaves,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: But there's no fact of dirty without signification. And everybody
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: knows exactly what dirty meets. So the second you call
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: second you say, these Obama's Washington was so dirty and
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: decrepit and disrepair, and then the dirty immigrants are climbing
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: over the fences. You just have to say that word
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: to invoke an infinitely virtual structure, just to arouse people's disgust,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: and they go, oh, yeah, I don't want, I don't want.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: I don't want dirty immigrants in here.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like, don't Americans not take their shoes off in houses?
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: Dirty hoss houses. Yeah, it only exists by virtue of
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: its opposition to cleanliness.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 4: I wonder if stinkiness only exists because stinkiness is so visceral.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 4: Like I don't know.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: I was just thinking about those cases when you're on
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: the streaker or subway and like you and then you're like,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: oh crap, You're like, oh crap, there's like there's a
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: bum on this train car, Like I can smell it.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: I want to move to another train car. Like it's
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: like really like smell bo. I mean, it's beyond boh.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: It's it's like it's like rotting, like like rotting human excrement.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: I think I think you're right that has more there's
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: more fact of stink than dirty. Yeah. Yeah, but you know,
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: kids just kids really can't tell stink.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 4: It always said. I also sometimes wonder about my cat.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: I'll look at I think you're sort of trained into it,
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: is what I'm saying you have.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: I've had that thought as well, because I noticed that
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: my cat. I just feel like he doesn't react to
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: smells like ever.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, dogs have like like noses. Yeah, dogs love it
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: like five hundred thousand times strong enough. I've never seen
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: they'll sniff your ass right after you let one.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they love the grosser. The grosser the smell, the
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: more they love it.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: I've never seen my cat be like be like, oh
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: they just yeah, they're.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 3: Just You could go fart in a cat's face and
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: they won't battle lash.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: Even toddlers, they don't, they don't react. Yeah, I know
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: that there's definitely a fact of it that it registers,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: but there's also a bunch of learned convention about why
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: farting is bad.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, oh totally for sure. Sure, And I noticed.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: I mean I I I feel like I have I
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: have a pretty high tolerance first stink, like like I'll
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: notice it, but I'm not going.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 4: To be like, oh my god, like that's just then.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 4: I'm just like as.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: Opposed to like good smells, like I guess mostly mostly
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: when you walk by someone who smells nice. What the
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 3: Axe commercials tell you you should smell like and all
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 3: that sort of stuff.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true if you're if you're our age, Axe
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: made it masculine to smell girly.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: It's still a binary.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: There's a couple like origin points. I know, I know
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: you keep it bringing up Dreda dreda didn't really like
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: this bit of levy Strouss. But uh, the levy Strouss says,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: in these myths there's a bunch of origin points of
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: the very primary division, like the first the first division
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: according to the mythic Ammerindian stories like we had with
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: with Dirkhime. Dirkhim said the first division was sacred and profane.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: For levy Strausser's at least two The first is the
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: wrong and the cooked WHI mentioned. But the other is
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: the incest taboo, because there's there's something, there's something of
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: a fact of incest that is bad because if you
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: if you have, if you impregnate a female in your family,
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: then the birth defects all that stuff.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: But it's don't naturalize it.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: But then there's the signification of the tat of the
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: taboo of incest as the first like law is turning turning.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know, is there an instinct against incests? I
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: remember I had I had sheep on the farm growing up,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: and they would relatives all the time.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 3: I don't know them. Then we're on the border of
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 3: like constructivism, because we're claiming there's like a biological basis
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: for it.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: But all I would I would think, no, Sorry, I
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: need to correct myself. I wasn't saying there's a basis,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: there's a there's a a biological fact that says females
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: in your own your relatives is.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: Bad, but the born revulsion towards it. But then it's
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 3: also a porno pornography category, which is also very no.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: The taboo completely over signifies whatever is there biologically right,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: So the discuss you feel like there's no, there's no fact.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know what animals do about that.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: But the the taboo is like the origin of the
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: first law that gets instantiated in myth. So there's always
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: an incest an anti incest myth.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 3: There are elaborate usually those elaborate rituals that are in
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 3: place originate from the incest taboos. Those kinds of like
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 3: the ways like when you look at the different societies
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: and you can categorize, you know, like, okay, who's who's
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: the important familial relation? Here? Is it the avuncular relation?
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: Is it the uncle? And how does the how do
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: like men and women get together? Does the women go
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: to live with the man? Does the man go live
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: with the woman? Does? Does do they go to their family,
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 3: do they whatever, It's always it's all different in different cultures.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 3: But yet how they organize their like marriage and procreation
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: and managed generations are like highly ritualized and extremely important
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: in the incest taboos, like a I don't know, an
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 3: originating impetus behind a lot of the rituals I guess
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 3: not like potlash is a different one is more like
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 3: aboutation of material goods and social prestige. But yeah, anthropologists
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 3: will look at the kinds of familial relations and how
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 3: the incest taboo is navigated and how that hooks into
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: power relationships too, because doesn't Levy Strauss look at the
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 3: tattoos on a certain tribe and how they have the
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 3: horizontal and the vertical lines they symbolize like the hierarchical
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 3: nature of the society and the tension with the more
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: horizontal egalitarian nature. And then again there's rituals in place
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 3: that sort of I guess, protect against the rigidity of
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: power structures and continue to Yeah, I mean all that
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: is wrapped up in the structural anthropological approach.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: Interestingly, and he traced this map, or he traced this
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: ritual practice to cook symbolically, but do a ritual where
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: you symbolically cook the woman before she gets married. So
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: she sits on hot sand, or she lays on embers,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: or in childbirth, you put hot, you put a hot
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: you put her into a hot cave. Basically, so she's
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: getting cooked in an oven, but symbolically, and this just
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: to signify before she gets buried, the passage from raw
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: female to cooked wife, from nature to civilization. And this
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: practice was on different continents. I think in Cambodia, European
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: tribes and Amerindian tribes all had some version of this.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 3: That makes its way into Friedrich Jamison too, the symbolic
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 3: resolution of social tensions that are actually problematic and pragmatic,
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 3: real problems, but we constantly are playing them out in
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 3: our social games.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of speaking of using games to conceal the mechanisms,
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: I think there's something to this, this normalization I'm getting.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: I get gambling ads now on my TV, my TV
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: that I own, I can't turn it on without seeing
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: a fucking gambling ad, not to mention CNN sports betting
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: anytime you watch a sports show. So this is kind
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: of there's there's almost a demand, there's a demand for
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: us sacrifice. You have to pay this goddess of luck,
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: this goddess of chance, because we know that part of
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: our system game, our system game that you want to
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: call whatever success, the way you move up, the way
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: you get it is, is undergirded by this capacity to
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: impress luck. So everybody has to pay their their toll
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: to the goddess if you want, if you want a
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: chance in life, and not to mention that as like
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: one of the final roots for social mobilities. So hoping,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: hoping to get lucky in a casino. But yeah, all
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: this say, sorry, that's for another time. All this to say,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: this version of theory, it's demonstrated in the method. The
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: hypothesis is that everything has changed. There are all chains
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: that are connected. You can dive in at an arbitrary point.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: You can go in through through whatever you want, gambling ads,
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: the reflecting pool, and diving in there, you're going to
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: find the chain that's connected to another chain, and a
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: chain that's connected to another chain, and that chain will
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: connect and a chain of change. Interestingly enough, was Lacan's
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: metaphor for what the unconscious was.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: I have always felt that your strongest videos were the
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: ones where you end up you do it you do
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: a deep dive into some sort of a cultural object.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: And I mean you mentioned it in this video, but
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: my favorite video of hers for a long time was
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: the Travis Scott video The Burger and and and I
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: know that it maybe wasn't your most popular video, but
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: it was my favorite.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 4: And then this one, I think is is you.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: Correctly identified that there's some kind of a similarity or
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: in the kind of method method of analysis that's interesting.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: I think you might be. You might be the only
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: person I've ever heard say that they like that video
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: in particular because I think it I think it got
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: like thirty k views total.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 3: That's it didn't Travis Scott was cast in the He is.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 4: In the aud What really? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, he's in
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 4: the Odyssey. I don't know what role he plays.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 3: But he plays the poet Demodocus, a poet. He plays
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 3: a poet. They've cast a rapper as a as a
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: ancient Greek bard.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 4: Look at the look at the wation of my culture.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 3: Our rappers are modern bards, aren't they. They're the modern storytellers.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, sure, if you want, but if you want
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: to bar it, if you want storytelling rappers, I think
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: It's hard to get a worse example than Travis Scott.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: I love how these white these white people just like
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: decide to own like Greek. They're just like, it's mine,
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: it's my culture. It's like, what do you mean this
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: is like ancient Greek like culture. Like it's just the
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: weird ownership anyway.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they get very possessive out of the university syllabus.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 3: That is a major front on the culture war. We
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 3: can't let it happens. Western civilization is going to collapse
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 3: and then we're back to blue pools turning green.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: Nietzsche said that Socrates and Plato represented Greek culture in decadence,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: in decay.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I forgot that Travis Scott is in it. That's funny, Eric.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: You want to hear. I know, you know who don't
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: know who this is, But do you want to hear.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: Here's an example of Travis Scott's storytelling. I bet she
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: go in Dumbo, dummy. I bet she going Dumbo, that
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: bitch a dummy. I bet she going Dumbo. Whoo. I
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: bet you going Dumbo?
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 5: Straight up? I bet you going Dumbo. Okay, I quit,
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 5: I quit, Oh god, Okay. It's just so much better
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 5: it's so much harder. It's so much harder to read it,
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 5: to say it, you know, No, yes, the Bard, this
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 5: is the Bard, Travis Scott funny.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well I'm gonna go see it. Are you guys
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: gonna go see it? I want to go see it.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: I keep seeing the little the pictures of it cropped
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: and like, it seems like you have to see it
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: in imax.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 3: Imax is so far I know, I know, and expensive.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 4: Yep, yep, yep yep. All right, well that was great.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: We could have talked about Graham Plattner too, I would
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: have been curious about. But that doesn't really fit into
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: this narrative structure. I don't think, unless because now you toast.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: I think I think Jordan Peterson woke up from his
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: year long coma.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 4: Oh has he.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: Really to tweet about Judeo Christianity.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 4: He's been tweeting, yeah, but I don't know if he's no.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: The Masade. The Massade saw they were losing ground, so
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: they had to bust out the good stuff to revive
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: Jordan really quick.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 4: Last effected.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: So one of georgan I think it's Jordan Peterson's like
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: best friend or one of his best friends is Canadian
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: Quebec quebecer.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: I think he's some kind of a social critic. Jonathan Pagoe.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know if he's an academic or journalist, but
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: he's been tweeting about how much he loved The Odyssey.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: He went to go see it on a premiere and
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: he said, like, don't be fooled by if you think
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: that it's just wokeness. Like it's an incredible movie and
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: an incredible.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 4: Depiction of of of of what Homer. You know, if
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 4: Homer even wrote it, you know what he did.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: Jonathan Pagot is an icon carver and a YouTuber.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 4: Oh is that is that all?
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 3: John?
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: But he's Jordan's friend that I mean, that's that sounds dope.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: I thought he was some sort of academic, I thought
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Pajo Yeah, well you're right, he's Oh he's a
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: religion expert. Yeah, he's the editor of the Orthodox Arts Journal.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, what is this a Catholic French Baptist man? Is
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: there a is there a religion this guy has enjoyed?
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: Now he's an icon. Oh, he's an adult convert. I
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: can dismiss a matter.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: Of Okay, Okay, Yeah, he's all into Yeah, he's he advocates,
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: apparently for a symbolic approach to the world.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: Is that like symbolism the common noun or like the
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: malarmy school, like symbolists.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure, like the painters.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 4: It's so funny.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: Look at these look at these mind numbing comments. Though
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: people are like I have, I have no doubt that
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: it's that. It's beautiful. It's beautifully done. But it doesn't
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: change tradition. Crazy to expect people to throw history away there.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: It's like, it's like, what do you It's like, this
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: is a fucking myth.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: Hit us with some more. Tradition is a mythic term.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: Tradition is like that the part of history that belongs
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: to us. But then it's associated in that comment with history,
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: but separate from beauty. Yeah, which is a kind of
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: an anti Greek notion.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 3: It's all about beauty.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: Achilles in the Beautiful Death.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Callos Agathon, I forget what it's called.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: What's another can Is there any more mythic comments?
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 4: Oh? He did? Okay, so he did. He did tweet this,
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 4: he said.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: And by the way, the casting of Elliott Page is
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: absolutely brilliant.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 4: A master stroke.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 3: Actually.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: Uh, and then people are responding to that. I thought
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: this was a joke. Now I know that you're you're serious.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: You even call Elliott a he in your latest video.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 4: What the fuck? People are mad? But he's not misgender.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: You didn't miss gender.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah that's funny.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: Uh, because if your theory is true, it means Ellen
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: Ellen Page is so dumb and christonal and so perverse
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: as to cast a multilated transsexual manlet like, Okay, I'm
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: not gonna read this is just like a bunch of
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: transphobic stuff.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: They were, they were spazing out that Elliott Page was
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: playing Ulysses Achilles, which is a complete lie. He was not.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: He's playing just like the youngest kid on the on
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: the boat or something.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 4: Yes, sin on, I think is the characters. I don't know.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 4: I'm actually not. My knowledge is not good.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: On No, I haven't read it.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 3: In fifteen Elliott Page plays a minor role. Yeah, minor
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 3: male role. That's what they're mad about.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: Is it is Achilles in it. He's in the he's
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: a ghost in the in the book.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: Here's another here's another comment. Sorry, but this is a
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: horrible take. I'm not giving money to a movie that
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: casts Helen of Troy as a Saharan.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: There it is.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: You should also probably be losing your shit and unwilling
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: to pay for a movie if they decided to cast
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: Virgin Mary as a sub Saharan. Canonical books deserve better.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 5: Canonical books, conical books and literal crdiotomy Bluemenbach would be proud.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, Jonathan, your review says a lot about saying anything,
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: or says a lot without saying anything. None of us
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: are seeing a movie with a black Helen and a trans.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: Whatever exactly whatever, don't trends, don't trans our beloved character. Whatever.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 4: I am done.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: I am done financing media that a race swaps white
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: people's history and mythology. I don't care how good it is.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: I am ethically European, and I will.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 4: Put the self interest of my people first. I mean,
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 4: that's just like racism.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: So this, this is deep cut racism. This is like
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: eighteenth century racism. So this has to be It sounds
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: like European racism. They have any of flags.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: The bio, I mean, there's there. Their summary on their
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: own profiles, Western civilization lies on.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 4: The brink of destruction.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: We have been portrayed by our leaders make the men
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: of the West masculine again. And then it has a
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: British flag and an English flag.
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, English, English race science. There's the myth society civilization
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: is collapsing around us. Why because Helen of Troy is black.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 3: After after your analysis and your video, I don't want
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 3: to call Twitter a cesspool or a swamp because I
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 3: think it's insulting to cesspools, swamps something else.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: Swamps are beautifully rich in.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 3: They are incredibly important. I always get I always go
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 3: on about how Toronto was built on a swamp that
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 3: was destroyed, and so was the so was the so
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 3: was Trump's gash pool that was all a swamp land
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 3: they put it was a massive project to pave over
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 3: the swamp and build that fucking reflecting pool there.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: But you can call it assess pool. Isn't assesspool like
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: a septic pool, like a ship pool.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 3: I think a cesspool is sounds just more like a
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 3: morally loaded term to me.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: Well, you can call Twitter as sesspool, but it's it's
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: rich with myth even even if yeah, it is kind of.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 3: An ideological cesspool where all the worst ideas come together
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 3: and bloom.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, bloom, and Bach, even a British Nazi is publicly
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: upset to the point of, you know, keyboard crying that
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: an American director is ruining his cultural heritage by casting
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: a black actress in a Greek myth and as a
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: very minor character. Helen of Troy is not a minor
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: character overall, but in this in this story, is just
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: a very minor character. What does this guy call himself?
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: Out of curiosity?
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, it was called it was called it was called
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: Knight of Ruin. Of course it is with as in
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: as in k K N I g h T.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course I got it. Night the Night of
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: the of the Ruined, the Ruins of Civilization. He's marching
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: around alone, yelling at the ghosts. He's trying to tilt
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: at giants. But it's just the self serve kiosk at
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: the Wendy's.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 3: The ethno nationalist crusader.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 4: It's quite quite remarkable.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: Sarah, can you please sit down or we're gonna have
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: to call the police. Okay, that's good place and good time.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 4: That was, and yeah, we will see you.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: Talk to you soon. Hopefully something uh, something equally semiotic
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: happens this week.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, see y'all next time, See you soon.