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Ben's Rookie Season (2004 Steelers) · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to uh this episode of Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Today on our podcast will be coming the 2004 Steelers season.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's a memorable season.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably one of the um it's the best record the Steelers have ever had in the regular season, but it had a very um disappointing ending, but a lot of tip twists and turns and uh good football played, and uh, you know, even though it has a kind of a downer ending, I think it's a good one to review because it's it was a lot of fun and I remember it.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Probably one of my favorite seasons, even though didn't come out as well as we all had wanted.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: And Tim's with me today, as usual.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Hello.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we go back to 2003 as usual to give you some background.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the season before, the team had a disappointing six and ten record.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that that was the worst record at Heinz Field.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: The last time the, and that's the last time the team has lost more than eight games as of uh today, 2020.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh also the team did not win any back-to-back games that entire season.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I remember it was a pretty pretty downer year.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like people were giving their tickets away.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: I remember me and Tim went to a, or no, it was me and Dave went to a game.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh my friend Dave, who helps us produce the show, went to a game against San Diego.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: And San Diego wasn't all that great yet.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: They were kind of heading into when they got pretty good.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: But they had uh they had uh Drew Brees and Doug Flutie and Ladanian Tomlinson.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: And amazingly, the Steelers still won that game because I don't think San Diego had a very good defense yet, but uh Tomlinson was unstoppable.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: He he reminded me a lot of uh the early days of Curtis Martin at Pitt when he was just kind of the only guy out there doing his thing.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was unbelievable.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: The Steelers couldn't stop him, he was that good.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that was that was at least fun for us, you know, in a in kind of a downer season.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as far as the problems with the team, part of the problem was the the defensive secondary.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: They still had Chad Scott, a safety name, Brent Alexander, Dwayne Washington.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Also, Kendro Bell was a linebacker and he wasn't very good at covering passes.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: But um definitely Brent Alexander and Dwayne Washington were in uh you know downward slope with their career and um not playing as well as they needed to be for them to win more than six games that year.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Also, another issue was uh Tommy Maddox and Charlie Batch were the quarterbacks on that team.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: So they didn't, they had kind of two journeymen, not really a uh top flight quarterback yet.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: And uh Tommy Maddox had a lot of turnovers that year, if I remember.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: I remember uh Tim calling him a turnover Tommy.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: He he, you know, we did that podcast about we did the we did an episode about the 2002 season and sort of the magical run that they had under Tommy Maddox.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: So go back and listen to that if you haven't already.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: But one of the things we talked about in that episode was how their defense, the league had kind of shifted.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: The league had been this run-heavy league.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: You had in the late 90s, you had like Terrell Davis and Barry Sanders had 2,000-yard rushing seasons.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then in the early 2000s, you know, the the best players were then, you know, starting to be the guys like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady and Steve McNair.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: And um the league had kind of shifted, and the Steelers' defense was not built for stopping the pass.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so that whole 2002 season was a disaster on defense, but it was kind of masked by the fact that we could score a lot of points on offense.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what happened in 03 was Tommy Maddox kind of came back to reality of being a veteran, kind of has been quarterback.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so now the defense is still hemorrhaging points, but the offense can't can't keep up the way they could the year before, and that just led to a very miserable season, as you said, Steve.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so on the on that, um, Kevin Colbert and I guess uh Cower and um you know the other rest of the scouts got together and um they decided to uh turn over the roster.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: So Jerome Bettis was fading.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: He had some injuries.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: He was still an effective running back, but he wasn't definitely the feature running back that he could be.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: So he signed a guy from the Eagles called uh Deuce Staley, who was a big free agent that year.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: But the biggest addition was in the draft, where they uh drafted Ben Rothelsberger with the 11th pick in the draft.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even though they drafted him, they were gonna sit him for a year and let him learn become Maddox and batch, so he didn't get thrown into a bad situation and maybe ruin him for his career.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the rumor has it on uh draft day that um Bill Cower wanted to um draft another offensive lineman, but um Dan Rooney, who had uh gone through the whole Dan Marino debacle, decided that this time he was getting his quarterback and um that guy was gonna be um Ben Rothelsberger.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: So he put his foot down and uh told the coaches the uh you know the owner kind of stepped in and um you know made made definitely uh what with hindsight was definitely a uh right call there.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: That was that was a big deal.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, like like I I think my whole lifetime as a Steeler fan, you know, the the last time they drafted a quarterback in the first round before that was 1980, when they drafted Mark Malone, and they didn't really even draft him to be anything other than Terry Bradshaw's, you know, one-time successor, and they had won the Super Bowl the year before, so he was the last pick of the first round.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: So they never really invested in skill positions in high picks.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it just, Steve, did you ever watch The Wonder Years?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so there was an episode of The Wonder Years where they need a new car and they go to the car dealership, and the dad in the in the Wonder Years is very like old school, prudent, you know, so he's looking for like a used car, something very economical, and the there's this like shiny Mustang convertible.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I remember this episode.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and the kids, and the kids are all like, oh, let's get the convertible, let's get the convertible, and the and the and the dad's actually thinking about it.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then of course in the end he doesn't, but that that was like this draft.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's like, you know, the Steelers under Noel and then even under Cower, it was just like they always did the prudent thing, right?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: The prudent, responsible thing.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: They never went for the shiny convertible.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like in 04 when that when that pick was on the clock, and Ben was still sitting there because that was after the whole drama with Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers and the trade.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then Ben's still sitting there, Cleveland passed on him, all these other teams that that were potential for him to go to.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, come on, dad, get the don't get the the station wagon, get the shiny convertible.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: And and it was so cool that they actually did that, and it was so different from what they normally did.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: And like you said, I think Dan Rooney, you know, that was a lot of his influence for sure, because Cower wanted Sean Andrews and Cower wanted the station wagon.
• 7:19
  unknown: Yeah.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I guess, you know, I I don't know if it's like I was thinking about this.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe coaches get scared because not scared, but like they just don't want to be hassled with if you draft a high draft pick, like especially quarterback, the all the questions all the time are gonna be when are you starting him?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: When is he gonna play?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what is the plan?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's just gonna be constant, you know, distraction.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, if anything, coaches don't like distractions.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of coaches view that like a high quarterback draft pick as a distraction.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, there was still, if you watch, like, you know, there's a whole NFL films thing on that draft, like if Eli Manning like wouldn't have gone to the Giants, they were going to take Ben Rothelsburger.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, the Steelers were really kind of lucky and like Cleveland passing on him to take Kellen Winslow.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Kellen Winslow was a decent player, but he's not Ben Rothelsberger, you know.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, boy, things could have been a lot different.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe Cleveland's has a Super Bowl and a NBA championship, and the Steelers don't have anything, you know.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: The things really, the ball really fell in their court, and cute as the Steelers for taking advantage of it.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: Ernie Accorsi was the general manager of the Giants, and he flat out said that.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, he said if he if that deal would have fallen through for Eli, because the Chargers had drafted Eli and we're trying to trade him, he said, I just would have taken Ben because that's that's the other guy I wanted.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, at that point, either the Steelers end up with Rivers uh or they they take another position.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, who knows what happens at that point, but history could have been very, very different.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you wonder, I mean, if they would have had the success with Rivers.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Rivers isn't a bad quarterback.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he's just been kind of on a so-so team, you know.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, and and Rivers was supposedly, you know, uh Cower went to NC State and had a lot of ties to NC State, and Rivers was an NC State guy.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: So there was rumors that that's who the Steelers, if the Steelers were gonna take a quarterback, they were gonna take Rivers.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: But then once he was he was gone via the trade to the Chargers, you know, then it was kind of up in the air whether or not they were gonna go after a quarterback.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: And and going back to the 03 season, you know, the the very last game of that season was against the Baltimore Ravens in Baltimore.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: And Baltimore had won the division that year and they had clinched everything.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: They had clinched the division and they were gonna have to play the following week in the in the wild card round.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: But Brian Billick, their coach, chose to play most of their starters.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: They were trying to get Jamal Lewis, the running back, they were trying to get him a 2,000 yard season, which he accomplished, and they ended up beating the Steelers in overtime in Baltimore.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: And if the if the Ravens don't start start their starters in that game, or if they sort of take the gas or foot off the pedal there a little bit, and it's just if the Steelers win that final game of the 03 season, then Buffalo jumps ahead of the Steelers on the draft picks, and Buffalo ended up drafting JP Lossman, the fourth quarterback of that round, who turned out to be a total bust.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe Buffalo gets Rothesperger.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: So there's so many little things that had to happen for things to fall in place for the Steelers to have that pick.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: And as miserable as that 03 season was, and especially as miserable as that as that last game in Baltimore was, I think we were all watching that together.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um Josh Miller threw a touchdown pass.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Josh Miller, a punter, that was our only touchdown through an 81-yard touchdown pass.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it was a miserable game losing to Baltimore.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: But but again, if you don't lose that, we maybe don't have Rothis Parker.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just funny how you look back at these things and how history could have turned out so different.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think too, like it's like I think the JP Lossman pick kind of like illustrates like how much of a crapshoot like a first round quarterback can be.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, Buffalo obviously thought he was worth a first round pick.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's funny.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: We're recording this um around the time of the the 2020 NFL draft.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: And um one of the things that struck me as I was watching it this year was that all the all the top picks, especially the quarterbacks, all those guys that are doing the analysis, they they just gush.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, look at his arm, and they show these highlights of these guys throwing these 40-yard, you know, touch perfect on the money passes in college.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: So so it's like every top 10 pick, top 15 pick, they look like a surefire superstar, but we know from from history that what maybe half of those guys actually pan out.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe only yeah, even to have like a Phillip Rivers type career, you know.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's so many busts.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: So, so 2020, you had uh, you know, you had um Joe Burrow was the number one pick, you had the kid from Alabama, you you had the kid from Oregon, you just have these these quarterbacks that just look again, all the highlights are just like, wow, this guy is just gonna be amazing.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: And and then you just never know how that's gonna pan out.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that 04 draft, Eli, Eli and Ben won Super Bowls.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Rivers had a pretty productive career, Lostman did nothing.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: So it so it's like those guys, if you go back and watch the television broadcast of that, I'm sure all four guys are being gussed over as can't miss.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but man, I I'm glad we had Ben.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad we ended up with Ben.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: That worked out for us.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh also, um, not the you know, Glosso, who uh we picked up Max Starks in the third round.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we you know, he ended up being a starter for years for us.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that was another you know productive draft pick for us.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the uh next point, um, Bill Cower.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he was kind of getting a rep of like a Marv Levy or like a Marty Schartenheimer or Bud Grant, like a guy who uh had won a lot of games in a regular season, but hadn't had much success in the playoffs.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, and he also never won won a Super Bowl.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it was probably um that was probably a reputation of a starting to kind of attach itself to uh Bill Cower.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um part of the also part of the turnover was um there was some coaching turnover.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, like you said, defensive coordinator Tim Lewis didn't seem to be able to adjust to the new pass happy NFL.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: And uh he was fired.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so they brought back uh Dick LeBeau, who had been there um previous, and he was actually made defensive coordinator.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um Jason Gilden and Dwayne Washington both left the team for free agency.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: I believe they both went to Jacksonville.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Also, uh Josh Miller, he left for New England in free agency.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: He never really got along with Bill Cower for whatever reason, just personality clash.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: But they always, for some reason, I don't know, Bill always had a thing for um punters.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: He just would always argue with his punters.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Not sure why, but that's what that's what uh he went with.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and Gilden, Gilden at this point was um a little bit past his prime, but he was he was the Steelers all-time sack leader, I believe, when he left.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: So he had been a very productive player, and I think they let him go because they had this young linebacker uh named Joey Porter.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, who who they thought you know could could potentially step in and take his place, and then uh ended up being a a good decision.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um on the punter front, uh they actually signed Chris Gardockey, who had given Cower the finger in a game when he played for Cleveland.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess uh, you know, he maybe just liked uh somebody he could argue with on the punter front there.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: So um that brings us to the start of the 2004 season.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh kind of a strange start to the season.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: They played the Raiders and they beat them 24 to 21.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: They had held a lead for a very sizable lead.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think I went to this game too, he for most of the game.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: But the Raiders mounted a late comeback, which had been kind of like apropos against our defense for the last couple of years since they couldn't stop the pass.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Jeff Reed kicked a late field goal to seal the win.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Jerome Bettis had that crazy fantasy football.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: He's the original fantasy football poacher.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: His stats for the game were five rushing attempts for one yard and three touchdowns.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And meanwhile, poor Deuce Staley just had 91 yards rushing.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: So if you drafted Deuce Staley, you were probably not very happy with uh Jerome Bettis or Bill Cower or the Steelers if you're playing, if you're a fantasy football person.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Another great moment I remember was uh Casey Hampton, who I feel does not get, I don't know why he doesn't get any credit in the national media, why they all follow them for Vince Wilfrock.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Vince Wilfrock on a good day is maybe half as good as Casey Hampton was in his prime.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Casey Hampton's a far superior nose tackle, always was.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: I remember this play against the Raiders that uh kid Justin Fargus, Huggy Bears kid, tried to block him.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: And he literally put his hands on his helmet and leapfrogged him, jumped over him to tackle the the, they were running like a wide receiver thing, and he detackled the guy, like outside the numbers, which is unbelievable.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think Vince Wilfork ever did that.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Or Ted Washington or any of those other big nose tackles that you know they always love to trot out that they, you know, think are so great.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: But so they're they win the first game of the season.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of weird.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: The Raiders weren't really that great, but a win is a win.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: So the next the next day.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Steve.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: So that game, you're right.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was that was the Bill Callahan uh Raiders era after he had taken them to the Super Bowl and then they completely fell apart.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: And and it was kind of like, okay, this is one of the really bad teams.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: So we beat them.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe if we could just beat the bad teams and and maybe play okay against the good teams.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: I I think at this point in the season there's there's not a whole lot of optimism, right?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: And and you're playing against the second week, you're playing at Baltimore against the team that won the division last week or la the previous year.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, if you can't if you can't play well against them, then you're probably headed for another mediocre season, is what everybody's probably thinking in their heads.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's um and that's exactly what happened was they go into Baltimore and um disaster strikes.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they lose to the Kyle Bowler quarterback ravens.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: With Kyle Bowler at quarterback, the Ravens score 30 points on the defense and win 30 to 13.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: But more like relevant to the rest of the season is Tommy Maddox gets hurt.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: He gets hit in the elbow, his throwing elbow, and he's going to be out for a couple weeks.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, his arm was actually in a sling.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Ben does come in and um he throws a couple touchdowns.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't say they're complete garbage time, but he does throw a couple of interceptions too.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: He just kind of looked like a rookie, rookie that was out there just kind of winging it around, you know, doing his best to, you know, in a bad situation because they were already down a lot of points by the time Ben got in.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: But at that point, it seemed like the season, like you said, was heading down the same 2003 season where they were just kind of get another six or seven wins at best and probably not have too much success.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and and I remember the 03 season.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: One of the one of the you know, one of the big topics on like local sports talk radio by the time we got into like middle of November was hey, it's a lot season.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't you play the young guys?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't we play some of these backups?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: Let's let's see if somebody else can step in.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: And Cower didn't really like to do that a whole lot.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he he mostly stuck with the guys that he had.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I think also with coaches, they know if a guy's doing well in practice or not, they know if they deserve to play or don't.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when this happened with Maddox, and now they're one and one, it's like, okay, they got blown out in Baltimore.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: To me, at least the way I was feeling at the time was okay, well, good, now the rookie gets to get some playing time.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's not gonna, it's not we're not gonna win any games, but he'll he'll get to to get some some playing time, and then maybe a year or two from now, you know, he'll be ready to do something significant.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I never in a million years thought that that would lead to what it led to.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to see what he got because I didn't really know much.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And he came out of such a small school.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes when a quarterback comes out of like that Mac, like it's tough to tell like how good you really are.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like like JP Looseman, I think, went to Louisiana Tech as the same kind of thing.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah, he was good, but what kind of competition was he playing against?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, is his skills going to fit into an offense that this team is running?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it was kind of just curiosity factor and on my part.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, during that week, uh Alan Fannica made the news because um he said some quotes that weren't probably flattering the Ben, but um they were definitely, you know, I would say this is the attitude of the other veterans on the team.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, somebody asked him if he was excited to be playing with a rookie quarterback, and he stated, exciting.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's not exciting.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to go to work with some little young kid who's just out of college?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's got to do a little more.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's got to help out the do a little more, do a little extra, take that extra step, put the extra work in this week and rally around him and help him out.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's a learning process for him.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: He's a number one pick.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: He's fresh out of college, and that's the big thing.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: He's throwing in, thrown in a new offense.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: He's not in that Miami, Ohio offense that he sat in for three, four years.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: He has to learn that too.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot to soak in.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like every play you get better, you see things, you start to realize things, how a play works, how defense reacts to it.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a process.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: But mainly the the first part of the quote, I I I put the second part in there just to be fair to Alan Fannica, but the media would never play that second part.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: They would always play the first part where, oh, Alan Fannica doesn't like Ben.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, he doesn't want Ben to play.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: And dah da, you know.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: I always thought that was unfair to Fannica because I mean, I heck, even in my job, I, you know, I remember when I came out of college in my job, you know, I'm I'm constantly asking people, like, hey, how do I do this?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, where do I send this?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: How do I, you know, you're just you're you're New, you don't know exactly what you're doing, everybody else has to do more to help you.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's a natural feeling, and and it wasn't like Ben had earned the job or had been anointed, it was because of injury.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I I don't know.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: It was a natural reaction, and it just showed it's just anytime you get annoyed with athletes giving vanilla boring answers, this is why.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because it really got blown.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: I remember just like the whole week, that was really a big thing.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and that was before like the media was really crazy, like it is now, like you know, on Twitter.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, that was before social media.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, yeah, but you yeah, you still had sports talk radio and you still had you know a lot of a lot of people like, oh, now there's dissension in the locker room and blah blah blah.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: So again, the like I said, to me, there wasn't any optimism for this season at this point.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: No, there was zero optimism.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so the next game, they were scheduled to be played on a Sunday in Miami, but they had to delay it to Monday night because there was Hurricane Janine.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um, they and they still like the hurricane had kind of I guess gone through enough to where they could play, but there's still like all the rain left over from it.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a complete monsoon.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the team said they bonded on this road trip because I guess they had to sit in the hallway of their hotel because it was too dangerous to sit in the room on that Sunday.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: So this is part of like the team kind of coming together and you know, an unexpected bonding experience.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: So um also they played the Dave once.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: That was the coach of the Dolphins.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, very sloppy weather conditions.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they had the they still played baseball at what pro player or whatever.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Hard, I guess it's hard rock stadium now, but it's pro player stadium back then.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same stadium.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: But there was dirt infield, and with all that rain, it was just like playing in a bunch of mud.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Ben threw an interception on his first pass.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: He did that a lot that year, like his first couple passes, he would throw an interception.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Know if that's like a rookie thing or just something Ben had to kind of work his way through.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: But in spite of all that, the uh Steelers' defense won 13-3.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, the Dolphins weren't considered a good team that year.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: They were mediocre at best.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: Was feet Fiedler was probably still their quarterback, or you know, it wasn't the that's what you can say about the Dolphins of the 21st century.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't the A Marina.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, a weird kind of game, but uh they won it and now they're two and one.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And uh they kind of went through some adversity there.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, got through the week and with a hurricane and some mud.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now they're heading into the next week, is against the Bengals, who are um improving themselves.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: The Bengals now have Carson Palmer and uh some other key pieces, and uh they were a pretty decent team.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: I remember the big difference in this game is the Steelers had had taken a lead, and normally like it was like one of those three-point leads, like teams had just been able to drive down on our defense and kick a field goal or score a touchdown and win the game.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: But the difference was this time we had Troy Palomalu, and Troy Palomolo made a great play picking off Carson Palmer late in the game, and then on his way to the end zone, actually running over Carson Palmer to score the game clinching touchdown, which was uh I at that point I knew this team was better than 2003 because that was a play that had not been made in a couple of years where like a clutch play by the defense.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: They just hadn't I hadn't seen that in the while from the defense.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought the team showed me something that week.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know how far they would go, but I thought they would at least probably make the playoffs now, especially they that was a big divisional win against the Bengals.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was also a breakout moment for Troy because he had it was his second season, and he he had played sparingly in his rookie year.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: He'd kind of gotten in more at the end of the season, but he he did not look, he was not the Troy Polomalo that we all know and love, right?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: He looked kind of lost in the secondary, and and now Dick LeBeau is there, and Dick LeBeau always geared his his defenses around the safety position and gave Troy a lot of freedom, started giving him more and more freedom.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: And now you start to see like, boy, this guy's really an impact player.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and just that image of him running over his college roommate Carson Palmer, uh, you know, that was that was like that was like you said, sort of a signature moment in the season.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, we might have something here.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, especially like they they I've always heard it takes three years for a player to really show you what they have.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: You figure this is really like year one and a half, you know, could or like you know, it's still kind of his rookie year because, like you said, he'd been hurt his rookie year.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so he was still developing, I would say that, and definitely had not reached his full potential, but they definitely were showing some signs.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, let's see, the next week, uh the Steelers beat Cleveland at home, and um, they kind of go to this formula that's kind of like you said, it's a pass happy league, but it's kind of out out of vote at the moment.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they they run a lot with Deuce Staley and Jerome Bettis, like heavy power running game, and then Ben can go play action, and the defenses are simpler to read, or you can throw them first down when the defenses play more vanilla to stop the run.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: So they're kind of protecting Ben.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um their defense, like we said, is rounding into shape.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: They're starting, the defense is starting to get good, and they're starting to be able to defend the pass.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: So the Steelers win at home against Cleveland, who was not that good, 34 to 23.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: The thing I remember, I was at that Cleveland game, and the thing I remember the most about that was that was the first game that Ben started where they really took the handcuffs off of him a little bit.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: And he threw he threw some nice like deep balls.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he really looked like he could play quarterback at that point.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: He wasn't just managing the offense.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you look at if you look at like the the season that that we had recently where Duck Hodges came in, you know, and and we were winning some games with Duck Hodges, but man, they were not letting him do squat because they were terrified of letting him throw anything more than five yards down the field.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: And and I feel like they they had done that a little bit with Ben at first, like in the rain in Miami and even the Cincinnati game, but this was the first time that they that they kind of let Ben have some freedom and he started to show that he, you know, maybe maybe wasn't going to take three or four years to develop.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think too with the running game, it makes things a lot easier for a quarterback.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: A good running game and a defense, you don't have to be the greatest quarterback in the world.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, it's is he's not they're not asking him to go five wide and throw the ball 40 times.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: If you look throughout the season, the most he mostly averages like 20, 25 passes.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of their formula.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh after that, they have a big test.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: The next three teams are very good teams.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's the Cowboys, Patriots, and Eagles.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the Cowboys are on the road, but the the Patriots and Eagles are at home.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, I think these games define this this season.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: And they they showed a lot of they showed this team showed the promise of what was going to be.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you didn't know it at the time, but this is really after these three games, I it just it's unbelievable.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great run, and it's a great run.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: So the Steelers go to Dallas and they they play from behind for most of the most of the game.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then um, but Ben, he plays well in Dallas, and a uh he leads two fourth quarter drives, and Jerome Bettis runs in with uh 30 seconds left.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, then the Steelers win 24-20.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it was uh a good play, a good win by the Steelers on the road against a good Dallas team.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, unfortunately, Casey Hampton tour is ACL and was done for the season, but they had a guy, Chris Hope, who ended up came in and did an admiral job, played well for the rest of the season.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: Really big win on the road for the Steelers there.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: It it was a little bit of a miracle win, too.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um so the quarterback for the the Cowboys at this point is Vinny Testaverdi.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: They always had good success against him, yeah.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: And and yeah, Vinny Testaverdi still probably goes to bed with nightmares about playing against the Steelers.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: The some of his worst moments came against the Steelers uh when he was the quarterback of the Browns and the Ravens and now the Cowboys.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: They they had the lead and they had a third down around midfield, and um and they they could have tried to run the ball and you know and then punt.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: And Parcell was their coach, and Parcells elected to try to throw a pass because if you convert the first down, then the game's over.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: And Tustaverty dropped back and he was standing right on the star, right on the star in the middle of the field, and he got hit and and he fumbled, and I think it was Kimo von Alhoffen picked up the ball and ran it back to like the 10-yard line, and that's how the Steelers won.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um but they had the game over, and Testa Verde fumbles the ball to the Steelers.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: So it was it was it just was like, wow, is this this this is the season might have some magic to it.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: And definitely like like the teams playing well, like good defense, and you know, even Ben, like you know, that game threw a couple touchdowns, they're definitely you can tell there's something different than there was the year, the the la last two years, they're definitely a better team.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: But the but the next two games, like you said, Steve, I mean Dallas was that was a big win on the road against a good team, but the next two teams are undefeated.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and so they played the bye week and they win against the bye week.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: And the next game is on uh it's a weird, it's a weird game.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's like one of those Sunday four o'clock games, and it's on Halloween versus the Patriots.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the Patriots have like this 21-game winning streak, and they won the Super Bowl the year before.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: And they're they're that's are they they're one of the better teams in the NFL, if not the best team in the NFL.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's pretty hard to argue against that at this point.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, after an early Vinateri field goal, um DeShea Townsend um picked off uh Brady and one of Brady's few bad games against the Steelers.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: He scores a touchdown.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I remember Ben went deep to Burris because they were doing, you know, because Belichick sold out against the run.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: They were able to kind of expose the Patriots defense a little bit because they were able to throw deep, you know, on early downs and they scored, they jumped out to like a 21-point lead.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of my favorite memories is in the second half when uh the Steelers were still up by a fair amount.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Deuce Staley had gotten hurt, but uh Bettis was in, and Bettis breaks through the line and is running, and he has like a choice to like go out of bounds or like run over Rodney Harrison.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: He just literally can see his head turned, like, where's 37?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Where's thirty?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: And he like literally just runs at a B line, like gives up like a 10-yard gain just to totally splatter Rodney Harrison, which was uh good, good for good for uh Jerome.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta love that.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I biggest another big thing I remember after this win, they won 34 to 20 in very convincing fashion was oh my goodness, I have never heard so many excuses from New England in my life.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we didn't have Dion Branch, we didn't have Corey Dillon, wah, wah, wah, boo-hoo, close the bridges in Boston.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was just a bunch of Boston whining to I've never heard Patriots fan whine like that.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, ever since.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just it was just such a joke.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: It just, you know, but another reason to, you know, that's why it's a rivalry and nobody likes the Patriots, but we got them that day.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: It was one of the few times that um a Steeler coach, out coach Belichick, um, you know, it and and yeah, it it just the Steelers dominated.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's so it was so rare.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, the Patriots hadn't lost a game in like a calendar year, and here the Steelers are dominating them.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, the Boston fans, I mean, you know, that was right around the time they were the Red Sox were winning their first World Series since 1918.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: So you'd think they would have been happy, but but they they kind of I think they they kind of were lamenting the fact that they couldn't do the low as me routine as much anymore.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was uh it's always fun to beat the Patriots, but almost as fun as it is to beat the uh next team on our list here.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: So the next it's another week, another undefeated team, and another Super Bowl favorite.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: The Eagles were really good that year.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so they they came into town this, at least the games at home against Philadelphia.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, I mean, literally, this game wasn't even a game.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: The Steelers blew them out.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: They won.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the final score was 27-3.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Heinz Ward scored on like a reverse.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't remember how good of a bad game Ben had, but they ran the ball really well.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: And they totally shut down Donovan McNabb and Twell Owens so much so that like the one thing that most people remember from this game is like Twell Owens chasing Donovan McNabb around the sidelines and yelling at him.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: And like Donovan McNabb is considered like a kind of a stand-up guy, not like a jerk or anything.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of like in Twirell Owens is the opposite, you know.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: I guess this is before Owens was working out in this driveway.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: But uh but uh yeah, so now at this point, they've won three games and beaten two teams who are undefeated in another Dallas that's probably a playoff team.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, Steve, you mentioned better, or you mentioned the running in this game.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: So this game really Deuce Deley had been very effective.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: He really had been.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, wow, that was a good signing.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: This Deuce Deley guy's gonna be really good.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then he was hurt, and then he was basically hurt for like the rest of his time in Pittsburgh.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: This this really kicked off the Deuce Deley wearing sweatpants on the sidelines era.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, and I always I always blame, I think Belichick put out a bounty on him, quite honestly, because like he got hurt in like some mysterious scrum in that New England game.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it wouldn't surprise me if he got away with that because Ray Lewis got away with that with Mendahall.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: That was back in the day when you know you'd get away with crap like that.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was before before the Saints did it and it was bad.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the the Bettis, I I think you know, everybody remembers Bettis.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: Bennis was the Hall of Fame running back, he was the bust.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, in 2003, and then coming into the season, the reason they went out and signed Du Staley is because Bennis was done.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he was finished.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if we're really being honest, he he was finished, and they were keeping him on the team as like a short yardage back and as a as a character guy.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, nobody expected him to be anything more than that.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: He was he was done.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: And when Du Staley got hurt and and they had to start Bettis in this game, um, I I I was tailgating before this game, and um there was a guy I was tailgating with, and he was he was just complaining about Bettis.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: Bettis sucks.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: He's he's no good anymore.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Oh, come on, let's be optimistic.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: I I bet Bettis has 150 yards in this game.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I I said that totally joking, because I expected Bettis to do nothing.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and he ended up having 149 yards in that game.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um and he ended up then becoming their starter the rest of the season and then having a great season.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was it was pretty remarkable.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I honestly I'm not sure he makes the Hall of Fame.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you like they always talk about Kurt Warner's in the Hall of Fame because he kind of had that second run with the Cardinals.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, would he have made it with just that initial run with the Rams?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: I kind of feel that way about Bettis.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: Had Bettis had Bettis faded and not done anything after 2002, you know, I don't I don't know.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: But then he comes back in 2004 and he is just a monster.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: And and then the the his last year, 2005, he's very effective also.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I just I just always wonder that, you know, had he not come back and had that sort of second win.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but he did all the credit to him.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: None of us, I did, I certainly did not think he had anything left.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I was kind of upset that he was now the starter um until this game.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then it was like, oh, maybe, maybe he's still he's still he's still the bus.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think too the Steelers started to realize that, and it's kind of like commonplace now in the NFL that you can't just make it through the season with one running back, they just they take too much of a beating.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: You almost have to have two.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so at this point, like I said, I realized the Steelers were the best team in the NFL.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point of being a Steelers fan, I mean I'd only been a Steelers fan since '92, maybe not as long as other people.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember ever being able to say that about the Steelers at any point in any season, where like it was undisputable.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: You couldn't argue it.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you argue it, you were just like trying to stir stuff up.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: They had literally beaten the three two of the two best teams in each conference and beat a really good team in the other one, had only lost one game.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was just I just knew I that they were gonna make I just knew they were gonna probably make the Super Bowl at that point.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: I thought we're going to the Super Bowl because I mean I can't imagine anybody's gonna be able to beat this team.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was that was pretty amazing.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they because just six weeks before, you know, they're one-on-one, they're starting, they have to start a rookie, you know, uh they're they're looking at another six and ten or five and eleven season to go from that to the undisputed best team in the league in such a short time.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: It it was it was like it was weird, it was like a dream because you didn't you didn't expect that.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: You almost didn't want to believe, yeah.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean the Patriots, the the Patriots and the Eagles being undefeated.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the Patriots had won the Super Bowl the year before, the Eagles had been in the championship game three years in a row.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: So you expected those teams to be dominant, but the Steelers were not a team that that you expected going into the season or even after week three to be anywhere near the the top of the league.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it yeah, it was just it was remarkable.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't have any better word than that.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they play the uh hapless Browns again.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they beat the Browns uh 24 to 10.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: Jerome Bettis, like you said, is filling in for uh Deu Spay, who's now firmly in his sweatpants.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh Bettis has 103 yards rushing against the Browns, another great report performance and kind of the formula that's been going on is they run the ball effectively and uh just kind of pass when they need to and uh play really good defense.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that's that's kind of what's going on with this team, and they're they're now starting to kind of hit their stride.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the next they played the Bengals, another division foe.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is a tightly contested game.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: The Steelers would uh pull out this win late in the game, 19 to 14 on a pass from uh Ben to uh Dan Kreider.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Does anybody remember having a fullback?
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that uh the defense uh clinched the game on a safety by Carson Palmer, a tough, hard-fought win, divisional opponent in Cincinnati, and another big win in the same kind of thing.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're just they're they're not making mistakes that could kill you.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: And Ben's when they need to play, Ben is clutch.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: He's able to put a pass together when they need it, and that's kind of kind of where the team is right now.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: Next, they play uh the Redskins, who were really bad that year, as they are most years.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: They beat the Redskins 16 to 7.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Jerome Bettis runs for another 100 yards.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just uh and they're they're really rolling at this point.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the the formula, you know, as you mentioned, it's it's run first, defense.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: But but we we we did an episode about the the the 95 team that went to the Super Bowl.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we talked about how Cower Cower always had that formula of, you know, run run first, play some stout defense, and have a game manager quarterback.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think the difference this year was Ben, they had the they had the the running game and the defense, but Ben was more than a game manager.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: He wasn't at this point in his career, he wasn't you know throwing for 5,000 yards or anything.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: But you mentioned his ability to make plays when they needed him to.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: He was he could do that, he was clutch.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: That that ability to stay in the pocket, to get away from the first guy, to run.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he was he was more mobile at this point in his career.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: He was just a playmaker, and it was it was different, it just felt different than anything the Steelers had ever had, you know, certainly since the 70s.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, it's definitely different when you have like a quarterback that can make plays, and that's what he would do.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: He like, he wasn't necessarily, like you said, a polished NFL quarterback where he was reading the defense and putting pinpoint passes in there.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: He would kind of like when things would break down, he would do what he does best, and that's run around and make a nice pass for either a touchdown.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of highlights of him even that year, especially just kind of running around playing backyard football.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so the next week, um they go down to Jacksonville, and I think this was a Monday night or Sunday night game.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Jacksonville had a bunch of former Steelers on their team.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Ben actually had a perfect quarterback rating this game, and he led a another late comeback, a big catch by Lee Mays.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know that's a that's a Tim favorite.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: And uh They won 17 to 16 coming back again.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of two comeback wins in a row.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Jacksonville was kind of mediocre.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe not that great.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: That was on a last that game was on a last.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think they won that game on a last second field goal.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, Jacksonville was okay.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: They were another kind of mediocre team.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: But still, like I said, those are games that they hadn't been winning in years past.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of that was due to um not just not just the defense, but uh Ben Ben being able to make a play here when they needed it.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: So uh let's see, the next game is against the the Jets.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the Jets had this guy.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we marched, I mentioned him earlier, he's uh Curtis Martin.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: And uh this whole kind of season was kind of weird.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis kind of had like really close like career stats.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it seems like every week one or the other would pass each other with like you know, all-time as they went up, both went up the all-time rushing list.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it was kind of weird to have both in the same game at the same time.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is maybe um the Steelers start to show a little bit of, I don't know, well, maybe not fatigue yet, maybe a little later, but um they have uh they win the game at home 17 to 6.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Bettis had to throw, I think, a halfback pass for a touchdown in this game.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how many of how many he had in his career those, but uh they did win the game 17 to 6.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm not sure how well Curtis Martin did, but with six six points, probably not that well.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: They probably shut him down pretty good.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: And and Curtis Martin was in his 10th year at this point, which is ancient for a running back.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: But he he actually wins the rushing title this year, which is just a testament to how good Curtis Martin was.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, Steve and I are biased.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: We were huge Curtis Martin fans from his days at Pitt.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: But but man, winning the rushing title in your 10th year, uh again, that that's that's that's why he's a Hall of Famer.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but in this game, uh, as you said, Steelers really minimize him.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and they they had uh Pennington, and we'll talk about him later in the playoff game.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah, they had him and uh I think uh we play to win the game guy was the coach Herman Edwards.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Herm Herman Edwards, yep.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: Poor Herm Edwards.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's there's two things he'll be remember remembered for.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: One is picking up the uh the miracle in the Meadowlands football.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: That was him that scored the touchdown in the miracle in the Meadowlands, and then as a head coach saying, You play to win the game, and that's all he'll ever be remembered for.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the next week they played the Giants.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: And uh this is uh one of those games that they probably should have lost, and it was a showdown of first round picks.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Ben and Eli both both have a high scoring game.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: Ben actually has a great passing.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: Jerome Bettis, like you said, has 140 yards rushing.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: Jeez, and the Steelers win 33 to 30.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the defense just took a week off that week or what, but uh I remember Eli shredded them pretty good.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: But the offense, this is kind of like the offense was able to bail out the defense in this one, which was uh another good sign that this team is just they can win it different ways, you're thinking at this point.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it it's big, it's starting to become the team of destiny thing at this point because because you you can't win every game.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: And and so the Jacksonville game, they kick a last second field goal.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: The Giants game, they I they returned the opening kickoff for a touchdown.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: The Giants did, and it was just right from the start, it was like a it was like a shootout, and the Steelers eventually came out on top.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: And and so you're just waiting for okay, here, okay, it's a bad game, rookie quarterback, not a big deal, but you couldn't really afford to lose a game because New England uh still only had that one loss.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so you're you're you're looking at the home field advantage for the playoffs, and if you lose uh one game, then you're behind New England for the number one seed.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so they kept winning.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was it was definitely like cat.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: I remember that the whole year thinking, well, well, New England's got to lose a game eventually, and they just would win every week.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was a real interesting season that way.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the Steelers in New England were just definitely that the best two teams in the ASC that year, and they just they definitely went like it was neck and neck the whole year.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: There it would only one loss between the two teams.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the next week was a rematch.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um I guess the only the only game they had lost that year to Baltimore.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um they they did uh avenge it, win Ben had a solid game throwing two touchdowns and they won um 20 to 7.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: So they uh finally they beat Baltimore, but it's here at home.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: And Baltimore wasn't that good.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: They had Kyle Bowler, how good could they really be?
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the more significant thing, like we were just saying, like what happened was um the Patriots never seem to lose, especially that season.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they went to Miami and played Miami, and um late in the game, uh Manning throws a rare interception that turns I say Manning Brady throws it, yeah, rare interception that turns the game for Miami and Miami wins.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: And this kind of like people forget this, but every year, like it seems like New England loses one game to Miami that they shouldn't.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: And normally it's the one in Miami, and this is kind of when it started.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a big opportunity.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was now 14-2, and they um and now the Steelers were had a one-game lead on them and the tiebreaker because they had beaten them in the regular season.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that so when they won that game against the Ravens, they locked up home field advantage, and that led into the last week of the season, which was a meaningless game against Buffalo.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: Which and the Buffalo game is like it's one of these memorable games because the Steelers like didn't do what what Billy did the year before, where he played all his people.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: The speel the Steelers legitimately rested like most of their starters, but you don't realize how good the depth of this team was until you hear, yeah, they okay, they're not playing Staley or Jerome Vettis.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we got this guy, Willie Parker, who's our third string special teams player, who's a really good running back, too.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, you know, they even played Brian St.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: Pierre, who was, I mean, he wasn't anything special, but and they had some guy on defense named, you know, James Harrison, who Harrison had filled in a couple weeks earlier, I think, for Porter.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: Porter had been hurt, but Harrison had been playing well, and that was able to give the defensive uh the linebackers some rotation, you know, so people weren't getting tired out as much.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: So the the team was really, really good.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: So good, in fact, that they uh beat the Bills 29 to 24, and the Bills were a like seven, either like an eight and eight or seven to nine team, and they needed to win that game to make the playoffs, and they ended up losing.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that was that was against and Drew Bledzo was their quarterback.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: It was, I mean, it was just one of the more unbelievable things.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, Team of Destiny.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that was wow.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: believe that they they were that good that year.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and and that that was that was kind of a good launching pad because those backups, you know, you mentioned Willie Parker and James Harrison, they ended up they end up becoming important players in the in the upcoming seasons.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it was it was probably good for their careers to go out and prove that they could play against first string but uh first string Buffalo team that had the whole season on the line and still win.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: And and so with that win, that's their 15th win.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_02: 15 and one.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's 15 and one.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: There were three teams that had that were there was the Bears, which won the Super Bowl, Minnesota, which lost to Atlanta, and us.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think at that point there were only three teams that there were there was one other, the 84 49ers were 15 and one.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, because the I remember that because the only game they lost that year was against the Steelers.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the the 49ers and Bears and won the Super Bowl.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned the Vikings lost the championship game.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, 15 and 1 was usually a pretty good sign that you were gonna, you know, win the Super Bowl.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, and all they had like weird stats like that, like yards per completion.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like if that's over like 10 or 12, which I think they were like 15, like that's like 80% chance you're gonna win a Super Bowl or something like that.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was there were a lot of other like deeper stats I remember that were like this team, but that was once again, that was a product of they'd run the ball, run the ball, and then throw a deep pass.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they were a really good team that year, and um they were heading in the playoffs 15-1 home field advantage.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, everything is looking pretty positive.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's no real reason to panic yet.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: So they they take a week off, they get their first first round bye, and the next game is against the Jets.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: Who who had upset the Colts the week before?
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think a lot of people were expecting the the first game to be against um Peyton Manning and the Colts.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I I believe that's who the Jets had upset the week before.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it was kind of a surprise that's who they were playing.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and um once again, the Jets had Chad Pennington and Curtis Martin, pretty good defense.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um, unfortunately, Ben, like in the playoffs, he threw two really bad interceptions late in that game because they were one got returned for a touchdown, and um then he threw another one that gave like the Jets, I think, a chance to uh kick a field goal.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the Jets had gotten in the field goal range, and that's when Doug Bryan missed his first field goal.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: Then I think after that, they decided to be aggressive and Ben threw another interception, and they were able to hold on, and Doug Bryan actually missed the second field goal back in the days when like kicking in, you got to remember it was really cold that day.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was at night, and Heinzfield was really, really tough to kick a field goal in back then.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was a lot of wind, and the turf was bad.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Ben played really bad.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: Chad Pennington couldn't throw pass over 10 yards because his shoulder was messed up.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people blame like Chad Pennington not having a bet better career because Herm Edwards just kept starting him, even though he was like all messy towards rotator cuff and played that way.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, that that was talking about team of destiny, right?
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: So so they're playing the Jets.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_02: I correction the Jets had beaten the Chargers the week before, not the Colts.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um but Brian, yeah, Brian missed the first field goal with like two minutes left, and the game was tied.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that one, that one hit the crossbar.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_02: So literally, if they would have been one yard like further, he would have made that.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it literally hit the crossbar.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then Ben throws a pick, and then they have an even easier field goal.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I just I was at that game and I just remember kind of staring up into the sky.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was nighttime, it was freezing.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I'm like, ah, you gotta be kidding.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this season's gonna end on a field goal and the first playoff game.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna go 15-1 and lose the first playoff game because the rookie quarterback finally realized he was a rookie and and you know played terribly.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I could not believe he missed the second field goal.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: I really couldn't.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was in shock.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it went to overtime and and then and then the Steelers drive, and Jeff Reed has a 33-yard field goal and he makes it.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they they definitely were very fortunate.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I you don't ever like to admit when your team's lucky, but they were lucky.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: They should have lost this game.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: Ben played horrible.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I remember somebody uh the next day put Doug Bryan on eBay, and like the winning bid was like 10 cents.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: So for Doug Bryan, I mean, like I said, it was a Heinzfield was a really tough place to kick, especially back then.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: And 47 yards and 43 yards aren't exactly gimme field goals.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they're lucky.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_02: But by missing both of them, I mean it was it's just so New York gets.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like to miss both those kicks with with the the gate with the season on the line.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you man you start to think, like you said, like it's team of destiny, like, oh man, if this is gonna happen, they they're definitely gonna, you know, they got lucky now, they just gotta not get lucky, you know.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and and then it's like, okay, you know, we hadn't lost since the second week of the season, and we had a rookie quarterback, and eventually we were gonna lose a game or he was gonna play badly.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_02: So that so that happened, but we got we got out of it, right?
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: So now we can go and win the Super Bowl because we got our bad game out of our system.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that that was what you were trying to convince yourself of, rather than, you know, maybe this is a gonna be a pattern for the next week.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, unfortunately it was the latter.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was a uh pattern for the next week.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's a rematch against the uh Patriots, who are 14 and 2, which is like a really good record for a team that has to go on the road.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like normally 14 and 2 is you're at home.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: But that's the way this season was.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, the the Steelers just aren't up to the task, they just weren't ready for uh prime time.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Ben, you know, threw an early interception.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the Patriots, I remember they stopped Bettis on a fourth and one early in the game, which was kind of a big play, you know, and um the the Patriots took advantage.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: They threw deep a couple times and burned our secondary, and the game was 24 to 3 at the half.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if the defense maybe could have got it together and held in the second half, we at least would have had a chance because the Steelers did score 24 points in the second half, but um they didn't they gave up a bunch more points.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: They get the Steelers would actually go in the lose 27 to 41.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Burris dropped the two-point conversion, which I mean, I don't know if that really would have got them that much closer.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: Ben played really bad.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: He played a little better in the second half, but the defense didn't, like I said, didn't do much to help him in the second half.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: You, you know, if you only maybe if you only give up one touchdown, they were down by two touchdowns most of the game.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it probably wasn't as close as I thought it was.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this is probably um one of the bigger games that the Steelers have lost.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is one of the outside of the Super Bowls, I would say this is probably the most disappointing loss I've ever experienced with the Steelers.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because I really thought they would win.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: I really thought they would go in and um stick it to the, especially the Patriots, who've been such a thorn in their side.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: It would have been nice to um win and uh stick it to them.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: But um unfortunately it wasn't to be.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: I remember they clinched the game on a reverse play.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can maybe they were stealing the signs.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: I watched a replay of this game.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: Paul Mowell lined up in the same spot three plays in a row.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think they finally just caught on to it.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that was uh leads us to the to the aftermath.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, well, so so just just on that Patriots game, Steve, I just I agree it was really disappointing.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they'd beaten the Patriots earlier in the season, uh convincingly, at the same at Hatten's Field.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, you just you just really convinced yourself like this this is our year.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_02: This we're gonna do this, and we're gonna play the Patriots and Eagles again, because the Eagles were gonna be the NFC rep in the Super Bowl, right?
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_02: So you're gonna have that the same two teams, you're gonna beat them again, and this was gonna be the greatest stealer season of all time.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_02: And instead it was the Patriots doing what the Patriots do best, just surgically dismantling a team, you know, and that's what they did.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_02: They just they just totally picked us apart, and Belichick Belichick rarely ever loses to the same team twice in the same season.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: And and they scored 41 points.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: This wasn't a defensive genius masterpiece by Bill Belichick in any way, shape, or the form, because the Steelers did score, like I said, they did score 27 points.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_00: And normally that year, if they scored 27 points, nine times out of ten, I bet they won.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of it was like you said, it was after 24 to 3.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was maybe the Patriots were playing a little bit of pre-event and stuff like that.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_02: It it was never, it just never felt like it was anywhere close.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like right from the get-go, it was just over.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they always like the Harrison where he threw the interception to Harrison early.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: They always people always say that's kind of where the Patriots pulled away and never really looked back.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, and the Patriots, you know, that that that kind of cemented them as an all-time dynasty team.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, anybody that doubted that at that point, I mean, that that just cemented their status.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: I I would put this game up there with uh Sid Slid and um, you know, just some of the other, I mean, this is one of the most disappointing losses in Pittsburgh sports history, quite honestly.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was it was very disappointing.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_02: I I I I won't spoil what you're gonna talk about with the aftermath, but you know, to me, it it's it's not as high for me only because of what happened the the following season.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then also, like if you're gonna lose, I'd rather lose 41 to 27 than you know, Sid Bream sliding into home plate or Dennis Gibson knocking down the pass at the last second or Neil throwing the interception in the fourth quarter.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd I'd rather it wasn't like it was it was a very disappointing, heartbreaking loss, but it wasn't like a dramatic last second.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_02: You just you kind of had lots of time to prepare yourself because right from the get-go, um, it was pretty obvious New England was a better team.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, some of the aftermath.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the Steelers, like we said, still would have had to beat the Eagles in the Super Bowl, and they were really good too.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if the Steelers would have been able to pull that off again.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: They would have beat the same two teams they beat in the middle of the season, and both those teams were pretty good.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure what the Eagles record was, but I know they hadn't lost too many games either.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say this is probably one of the best playoff fields in NFL history.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, between the Steelers were really good, the Eagles were really good, and the Patriots were that's probably like about I I think that Patriots team was the best Patriots team they ever had.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, out of all their teams that have won, I would, you know, probably even better than the undefeated teams if they didn't win a Super Bowl.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_00: But that team, that team played some really stiff competition and uh came out on top.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they they had played, I I mentioned the Colts before.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_02: They they had actually played the Colts the week before in the divisional round, which was a much tougher matchup because they were the number two seed.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_02: So they had to play the Colts.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_02: We we got we had the the good fortune of playing a much lower team, the Jets.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um and they beat Peyton Manning, and then they came and beat us, and then you know, they they beat the Eagles in the Super Bowl.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_02: So they they definitely earned that Super Bowl win.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was the I think the 2004 team, that's probably their best team ever.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: I would stack that against some of the um some of the super, maybe not the best, but one of the best teams.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let me backtrack that.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I wouldn't put them better than like the next season, Super Bowl 40, but I would definitely put them better than Super Bowl 43, like that team or Super Bowl nine.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think this team was better than that.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um also like it just goes to show that you don't always win the championship in your best season.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the the the 93 Penguins, you know, we're we're we're eventually going to do an episode about them.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people always say that was the best Penguins team ever, and they didn't win the Stanley Cup.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_02: The the 2007 Patriots, you know, they were better than the than this 2004 team.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_02: They went undefeated, they didn't win the Super Bowl.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, man, it's just funny in sports.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_02: It just sometimes that happens where you have one of your best best years ever and you just don't win.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: Especially, I guess, in one and done like playoff formats.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's easier to do.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh off the field stuff, uh Myron Coke retired after this game.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_00: He had been their longtime color announcer and pretty popular guy in Pittsburgh, and even done some well nationally.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, he had been sick the whole season.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_00: He had actually missed some of the Philadelphia game, I think, because he had fell, fell in his shower or something, and they had to send somebody out to find him.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: His on-air performance was slipping, and it was just kind of one of those backstories of the season.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: It would have been nice to win the Super Bowl and Myron to be there and enjoy it, you know, one last hurrah.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, also after the season, Jerome Bettis almost retired.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but he didn't.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's more of a when we do Super Bowl 40 season, I guess we'll we'll cover that.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_00: I said, one of the most disappointing things, but um, the reason they lost, like I said earlier, they were a running team with a rookie quarterback.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: Most rookies don't play 16 games in college, never mind two to three games in the playoffs.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: And they had and the defense gets better as you go.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: So um the defense also was uh transformation.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Positioning from Chad Scott to Ike Taylor.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think Ike hadn't developed quite the player he ended up being.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_00: And Chad Scott was somewhat of a weak link.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_00: Troy Palomalo was healthy, but was still a young player that really was like year one and a half.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he hadn't become, like you said earlier, the Troy Palomalo that was, you know, so instinctive.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_00: And plus, you know, he's playing with Chris Hope, who, you know, I think sometimes, you know, it takes a while to learn each other and you know what moves you're going to make.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that's it.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Ben, like we said, Ben ran out of gas.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: He got tired and just absolutely was horrible in the playoffs.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the media tried to make this like all through the CEO media, like the whole Analytica, they tried to make the whole thing with, oh, is Ben wearing gloves?
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a fact?
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think the gloves had anything to do with anything.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think Ben was just a rookie and um he just uh got tired and physically worn out and just didn't have it at the end of that year.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_00: The the positive is I think this set the run, this set this team up for the next decade to have all the success.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have the success without this season.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: This team kind of learned what it would take to uh get through adversity and uh stick together and uh eventually win the championships that they did win.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_02: I I think that's a good point.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, you you look at you look at the other 15 and one teams that before this and after this that didn't win the Super Bowl.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned the 98 Vikings, the 2011 Packers, the 2015 Panthers.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, some of those teams that was like their one shot.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_02: That was their open window, and they didn't do it.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and then they never really got back to the same point again after that, any of those teams.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_02: And the Steelers did.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's that's important, an important distinction because it really did set the table for what they would do in the coming years.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, like I said, it's uh it's kind of a bittersweet season.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_00: I I honestly felt after they lost the game to the Patriots that I would never witness a Steelers Super Bowl win in my lifetime.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I honestly felt that way because I thought if you can't win with a 15-in-one team where the backups are so good they can beat, you know, other teams, you know, that are playoff teams, then when are you ever going to win a win a game, win, win a championship?
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_00: And uh little did I know I would be uh rewarded the next year, but very disappointed.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, same feeling as like when Sid Bream slid, or you know, when Dennis Gibson knocked down that pass, or you know, some of the disappointing things that had gone on since the Penguins had won the 92 Stanley Cup.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because really there hadn't been a championship in Pittsburgh since 92.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and and for the Steelers, you know, you you and I were were born in in the mid to late 70s, and and so we didn't, we you know, we were babies when the Steelers were winning their four third and fourth Super Bowl.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't get to, as fans, we didn't get to experience that.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_02: And we had waited for years and years and years, and all these good teams in the 90s and all these, you know, and now you had this 15 and one team.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I I'm with you.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_02: I kind of felt that same like the air just kind of let out.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you can't do it at 15 and one, where you you know you've beaten undefeated teams, you've beaten, you've won these games that you shouldn't win.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_02: When's it gonna happen?
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_02: Is it is it gonna happen?
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, like you said, there's other teams too where that was their one and only shot, which I guess speaks to the character of this team and how close-knit they ended up being and how well they ended up playing together.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, well, yeah, I mentioned Carolina.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's the last team to go 15-1.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_02: That was in 2015.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_02: And they lost the Super Bowl to Denver, you know, and and Cam Newton was their quarterback, and he famously kind of pouted after the game in the press conference and wouldn't dive on the fumble and all that.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_02: And and and that was it.
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Their window shot.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_02: They they haven't done hardly anything since then.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that could have easily gone the same way for this team, very easily, and it didn't.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I hope you enjoyed our podcast.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's our coverage of the 2004 season, kind of a bittersweet one, but um not as hard to uh swallow now, I guess, as we know the uh next chapter in the book and the rest of the story, I guess, as Paul Harvey had to say.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh check us out on Twitter and our website, which is Tim Pittsburgh Sports Memories.weebly.com.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like Steve said, we're on Twitter, we're on Facebook under Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_02: And please, uh, whatever podcast service you're on, leave us a review.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's how you can help other people find us.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_02: And and please, if you like what you hear, you know, give us feedback and and tell your friends.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for tuning in.