Latest / Surviving-ISH Podcast / Courage Amidst the Scandal: Mike Foreman Exposes Sexual Abuse within the Catholic Church

Transcript

Courage Amidst the Scandal: Mike Foreman Exposes Sexual Abuse within the Catholic Church · Surviving-ISH Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello everybody, my name is David Keck and this is Surviving Abuse Podcast.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: You took what I thought I could never get back.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: I broke down just to begin again.
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: I'm back In a good kiss, in a bad goodbye.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: Now I'm back and I'll pray for you.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: I'm done hurting.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: I'm back.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: I'll use an anger.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: Won't let you win any longer.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Then we begin again.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Now I'm back and I'll pray for you.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: I'm done hurting.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I've been inside this church in more than 30 years.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: We look at the windows.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: You never think something bad might happen here.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Dramatherapy is the intentional use of role play to achieve a therapeutic goal.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: We're trying to walk through each other's memories and the things that haunt us the most.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Each survivor is writing their own script.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: I'm a New York City contractor.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I can chew the balls of a union electrician, but I can't talk about what happened to you.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: When I'm 13.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: I have so much anger and hatred I can't even put it into words.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: We have over 230 priests that we know that have been sexually abusive in this era.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Catholic Church says tell your mother we're sorry.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: You tell my mother you're sorry because she still believes in you.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm doing this.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, but I've had so much anger and hatred.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: I've been through so much.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: In my mind it's like they're not gonna win, and that's how I cope with it.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Do I have concerns?
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, I have concerns being re-traumatized.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: If it's too painful, we shouldn't do it.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I got to change everything.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: It's an opportunity to take back the power of those places over us.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Maybe you can run up and try to escape and go there.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: One, two, three.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: They turn and look.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Coming down the aisle with these guys is melding me with my 13-year-old self.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I feel like I have a connection to it, so I don't have to take care of it, dude.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: You did something that is so hard for me to do.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: This is a vehicle to help other guys.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I'm here for you.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: You chose to live and to love and in return, you chose to be loved.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of Surviving Abuse Podcast.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: I'm really excited about today.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Hello Kiana.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: Hi David.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: So remember for season two, episode one, at the end of the show I gave Kiana a homework assignment and said hey you need to email Mike Foreman from the documentary Percession and she did and he responded and I've had multiple conversations with him.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Such a cool guy.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: He is the only guy that I've actually ever really talked sports about.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: I didn't understand a damn thing about it, but I still loved it.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: He's just so cool and he's here with us today.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Hi Mike, hey David.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: How are you Not bad?
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: What's going on with you?
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Not much.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: We're so looking forward to this.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: We were really into the documentary.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: I loved the way this documentary was done and, just so everyone knows, it was season two.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Episode one is where Kiana and I cover our take on this documentary, and so I do recommend listening to that first, and I also want to throw out a disclaimer that we'll do throughout the show too, but there's going to be some trigger warnings because we're going to be talking about some heavy shit.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: Very heavy shit and so just so you know a lot of this.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: I mean it's real stuff, that's happened.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: It's very hot, very heavy.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: But understand that these are the things that are happening in the world and sometimes you just can't sugarcoat those things.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I mean, it's things that we have to talk about.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: We've got to have discussions of this, We've got to bring awareness to it, and the more that we know, the more that we can change, hopefully.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: So, mike, why don't you tell us first, like, how did the documentary come about?
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Like, how was it, how did you get notified that someone was wanting to do this and you agreed to do it?
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Well, it's, if you remember, the very beginning of the procession that press conference.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: That was in August of 2018.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: And we did that press conference and then I guess it was Then after that, I did a couple of stories on a local TV station, kctv5.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: They're affiliated with CBS.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: I did a couple of news stories and then my attorney, rebecca Randalls she called me and said that there was a documentary filmmaker that might be interested in talking to us.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: So we met at Rebecca's office and kind of slowly took shape from there and we got postponed a year because of COVID, and that's how it all kind of started.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Wow, I just think it was so impactful.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: I've not really seen a documentary done like this.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: And what's his name?
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Robert Green.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: It was the director.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, robert Green is just fantastic.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: Just what a great human being.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: God almighty.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I really like to spin on this and the way that he did it.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: I think you listened to the discussion that Keanu and I had about the documentary and in the beginning we thought we had picked the wrong thing.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: We thought we had picked a movie, but then when we realized what was going on, we just fell in love with it.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely.
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: I felt that it was very well done.
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: The thought of drama for therapy that just completely floored me.
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: I had never even heard of such a thing.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: And then one of the things that I will say is, throughout the documentary, you in particular kind of touched me.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: One of the things that I mentioned in our covering of the documentary is that everyone may have a different opinion of the individuals that were going through the drama therapy, but you had kind of touched me and I don't think that we ever talked about why you kind of touched me, so I'm just going to go ahead and throw it out.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: There is that you had a lot to say about the Catholic Church.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: There was a lot of anger there and I had actually known people that kind of reminded me of people that I had came upon in my life and I had never, ever stopped to think outside of my own bubble.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: You know what has maybe some of these people went through, and after seeing the documentary and seeing how this had impacted your life, it completely floored me, it made me stop, like, hey, sometimes you do need to get outside of your own little bubble and understand that people have emotions for a reason.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: You may think that you may make snap decisions or judgments about people without even knowing what they've been through.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Absolutely yeah, and for me, I'm sure for a hell of a lot of other people.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: For me, catholic Church has made this so much worse.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: It's unbelievable, absolutely unfucking believable, how they're just fucking evil.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: They just flat out fucking lie and lie and just fucking lie.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: They have made all of this so much worse for me.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: And while they're using the statute of limitations against me for an excruciating three and a half fucking years, while they're doing that, they're lying to the public about healing, mercy and empathy for all victims and all of their talk of healing.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: They don't give a shit about survivors of this fucking crap.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: All of their talk about healing that's meant for all Catholics and the general public, just from a public relations standpoint, because based on their own actions, they don't give a.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: They don't give a fuck about survivors.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: They spend.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: This is just so telling.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: The Catholic Church spends tens of millions of dollars lobbying and fighting like hell to keep the statute of limitations firmly in place.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: Statute of limitations causes so much more agony, mental and emotional distress and just flat out pain and suffering, and they're paying for that While they're preaching and boasting of accountability and transparency from within and throughout the Catholic Church.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: You know, hiding behind the statute of limitations is the exact opposite of accountability.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: And when the next horrific mountain of shit is uncovered about the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church worldwide will boast of accountability and transparency and then Catholics will hear that and they'll think, well, that sounds pretty good and they don't realize that there's no accountability at all.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: It's the exact opposite of accountability.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: It's just sickening the pedophile.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: The Catholic Church itself is worse than the evil pedophiles because they enable it to continue.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: They hide, protect, support and enable child rapists.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: So let's back up a little bit Mike.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: It's just fucking despicable what.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: I said so let's back up a little bit so that people understand where you're coming from with this.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: So I have heard your story.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: We have watched the documentary.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: I've also read your website.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: Some of the viewers may not understand where you're coming from.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: Can you share a little bit about your story for everyone to hear, so that they'll understand when you're saying?
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: The things that you're saying, you're talking basically from firsthand experience.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, well, just to Well, it just Okay.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: I was assaulted when I was in the sixth grade.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Then fast forward.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: I'm just kind of nutshell on this.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: This is all in my story.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: I am not catholiccom, but I was assaulted when I was in the sixth grade and after it happened the priest told me not to tell my parents because my dad might not understand and he might lose his temper and do something that could send him off to jail for a long time.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: So when I got, this happened in a rental house.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: That's part of the reason why I'm so pissed off at the church.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: If this was just my word and that was all I had, I'd still be mad as hell, but at least I could almost live with it.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: But you see, what kills me every fucking day is the Catholic church.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: They know I'm telling the truth and they just fucking lie.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: They know I'm telling the truth.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: So the priest told me not to tell my parents.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: The only reason the way I know that they know I'm telling the truth is the only way I could know where that rental house was, where this shit happened in 1972 was by being there, because this priest was at.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: He wasn't even going to our church.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: He was at the new Good Shepherd Church in Shawnee.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: The church was so new, they hadn't even built the rectory yet, so they rented a house for this priest and another priest to live, and this is where that happened, and then so anyway.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: So then, after I'm a Catholic, I go out, my mom picks me up and I'm telling her what happened before we even got out of the driveway.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: And I told her what he said about not telling my parents because of what dad might do, and she agreed and she actually convinced me not to tell dad.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: And I don't give my mother a free pass on any of this shit.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: I've struggled with this a lot.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: My mother, in looking back on it, you know, is just so sickening.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: She was so, so brainwashed and hoodwinked by the Catholic Church.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: It was just just disgusting really.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: She grew up in a very strict Catholic family.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not exaggerating If that when the priest called, my mom called the priest to talk about what happened and the priest to me that everything I told my mom was true, it was just part of his therapy and that I definitely needed more therapy.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: And my mom, my mom baked this priest a cake and took me back for more therapy.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: But there's, I am 100% sure, in my mind, in my heart.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: My mom is as stupid as she was.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: She had no you know ill will towards me or any kind of vicious intent In her mind.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: She didn't think this.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: She knew in her mind that that priest was God.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: It's Thinking back on that.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: It's just so fucking disgusting that If that fucking priest would have told my mother to jump off of a skyscraper, there would have been zero hesitation Off the edge, she would have went.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Just sickening even thinking about that.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: So then, after this I blocked this out of my mind till I was like 49 years old.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: But after this happened, I started this I don't know coping mechanism, according to a therapist of sitting by myself for hours a day rocking back and forth, preferably in the dark when possible.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I did that for decades without no having any idea why.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: It was fucking unbelievable.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: And so when I finally recovered these memories in 2011, I'm sitting here by myself watching TV and these memories hit me like a ton of bricks.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: I paced around in my small kitchen all night until the sun came up, reviewing every square inch of my entire life, every job interview I ever had, any girl.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I tried to date everything, my whole life, and suddenly a bunch of crap started to make sense, like this rocking back and forth that I did for hours a day.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: By the time I was in high school, I was down in my parents' dark basement for hours a day, rocking back and forth, when I should have been getting ready to go to college, oh fuck.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: So after about a year of digesting all this crap, I decided that I couldn't live with myself if I didn't come forward and seek what little justice is even possible, you know, compensation from the church.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: So I found a lawyer in Florida and he told me that the statute of limitations has passed and our only hope for any kind of justice is we have to appeal to Archbishop Nauman's sense of what's right and wrong and what's fair and God for worthless, worthless strategy that was.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Archbishop Nauman is an evil fucking snake, and I'm not kidding.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: And what's really sickening for me is he's got Catholics in this in Kansas City, hoodwinked into looking at him like he's Jesus Christ and he is the absolute fucking scum of the earth.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: So he, after my lawyer, wrote him a letter seeking compensation.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: I got a call from this Catholic priest named John Riley and at the time this was in 2013,.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: He had the John Riley had the title of Safe Environment Coordinator and from the first he called me up to invite me to come in to appear in front of their, in front of their independent review board.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: And from the very first time he called me he lied.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: This Catholic priest just fucking lying right through his ass.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Well, can I just talk to you guys like?
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: this.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: Let me ask you this, because here's my thing why even bring in another Catholic priest so you've got an independent review?
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: It seems to me the right thing to do would have someone who has no affiliation with the Catholic Church at all.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, they shouldn't have a.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: It should be somebody who doesn't have a dog in the bike, right.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: They're going to be on the defense independent review board.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: That's how these people, when I say they blatantly lie, they just flat out fucking lie.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: So when John Riley calls me, he invites me to come to the independent review board.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: He said, mike, there's eight people.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: I'll never forget this because at the time this was a lot more stressful than it.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: I I at least now I'm kind of used to talking about this shit.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: You know, at the time I hadn't talked to anybody about this except my dad, so this was very stressful for me.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: And he told me he invited me to.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: The independent review board, would be meeting six weeks from when he called me and he said there's eight people on the independent review board.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: And so I immediately I said, god damn man, eight people.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Why does it have to be so many people?
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: You know that this is very stressful.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: I had to go talk about this in front of eight people that they're all going to be looking down their nose at me, thinking I'm after a quick buck.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: And he said, mike, that's just the way it is.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: There's eight people on the review board, but it's completely independent of the Catholic church.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: It's the independent review board is only interested in the truth, and that could not have been farther from the truth.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: So then, then, so I said, okay, fine, there's eight people.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: That's the way it's going to be then.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: So I'll be at the independent review board on September 18, 2013.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: So then he called me two more times before that, and the third time he called me it was the night before I was supposed to go into the independent review board.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: I was supposed to be in there at two o'clock.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: So John Riley calls me at about 730 the evening before and asks me if I can come in at 2.15 instead of two o'clock.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: And I said, sure, I'll come in.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: And then again I asked him the same question you know why does there have to be so many people on this independent review board?
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: He gave me the same response again.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: So I said, okay, I'll be there at 2.15.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: And then he also said the chairman of the independent review board is an attorney.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: And this is how he said this to me the chairman is an attorney and he is very, very sharp.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: So basically he's got an independent review board, even got there.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: I said yeah, yeah, I said well, good for him.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: So I know that last call about coming in at 2.15 instead of two, that was just to try to intimidate me to get in that last jab that the chairman is a very sharp attorney.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: So then, so I go in there the next day.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: I'm really stressing.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: My lawyer told me I should go by myself to make it as casual as possible.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: So I'm driving up to the Archdiocese headquarters.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: I'm just really stressing, I'm just shaking.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: When I get in there, john Rally meets me at the front door and leads me into where this independent review board's meeting.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: So I walk in the room and there's four people sitting at a table.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: And before I even sat down, I said I thought there was eight people on this independent review board and the lawyer said just like this.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: He said no, it's just the four of us.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: So that told me that the other there's only four people on this review board.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: There wasn't, like you know, eight people, but the other four got called away on something else.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: So this the safe, the safe environment coordinator, he just fucking lied to me about that for six weeks, letting, giving me extra stress, and I sort of got him a storm out of the right then.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: But then I did.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: I thought, no, no, fuck, these people are going to hear exactly what I have to say.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: So on the independent review board.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: there's one empty chair at this table, god damn it.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: So I sat down and sitting right next to me, about two feet away from me, on my right, right next to me, sits a senior Catholic priest in Catholic priest clothing.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, how insulting on on the on the independent review board that's totally neutral of the Catholic church.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Here's a senior Catholic fucking priest.
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: Well, on so many different levels too, and I'm going to interject a little bit so not only is again, you shouldn't have anyone who has any affiliation with the Catholic church being on your review.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: Exactly, right.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Second thing is that's how these fucking people, that's that's how blatantly these fucking people lie.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: Well, and the other?
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: Thing, is I want to bring up too is you're saying that this is supposed to be a safe environment for the person who has been abused.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: That, right, there would have been a trigger for for for me, I mean, or anybody else who had been abused like that I mean that would immediately be a trigger.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: So you're saying this is a safe environment, but then you have a senior Catholic priest sitting there staring me in the eye while I have to tell my story.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: So there's the senior Catholic priest, and next sitting next to him was a woman.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know what she did.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised now, knowing how they lie.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: She was probably a Catholic nun.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: And then, on the other side of the table facing us, there's a senior Catholic priest, professor from Catholic Benedictine College, and next to him sat the Catholic lawyer.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: That's what the independent review board was made up of Just all lies.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: They just fucking lie, lie and lie.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: So when I started talking I said, just to kind of set the tone See, I think they thought I was going to see this senior Catholic priest and I was going to bow my head and say well, I'm sorry, father, may we please pray now?
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: No, that's not how that went at all.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: I said, you know, when I was in the sixth grade here's how I started my story, talking to them.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: When I was in the sixth grade, everything was great in my life, and then my mother took me out of the public grade school I was going to and put me into the Queen of the Holy Rosary Catholic School at this second semester of sixth grade, and I paused for a long five seconds and I turned to the priest sitting right next to me, the senior Catholic priest, in an allowed angry tone.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: After I said my mom put me in the Queen of the Holy Rosary School.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: I paused and right to him I said fuck, fucking asshole.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: And they just fucking lie.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: And when I left there there was no doubt in my mind.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: I knew I was telling the truth.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: No doubt whatsoever, because I have these details that match up.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know this at the time, but I know where that rental house was.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: The only way I could know where that was is by being there, because it was way too far from where the house I grew up for me to have any.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Not yet know him from out raking his leaves or something.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: The only way I could know is by being at that house.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know this detail till when I got the letter from Norman denying my credibility.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: I almost snapped.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: So I actually called Snap, a surviving network of those abused by priests, and I talked to this guy and he put me in touch with this local attorney, rebecca Randalls.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: So Rebecca filed a lawsuit.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: She said that my statute they had changed it and hadn't ran out.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: So she filed a lawsuit and turned out after three and a half years that I got dismissed.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: I lost my appeal After I was assaulted by this priest.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: He laid on the floor.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: I was 11 years old and this fucking priest after he assaulted me, he laid on the floor and curled up in a fetal position.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: After he gave me a pillow shaped like a baseball bat and he told me to beat him with it because it'll get out my anger.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: And I'm looking at this grown man in a fetal position on the floor.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Well, several other victims of the same priest reported the same detail.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, and Naman knew that.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: My lawyer wrote a letter to Naman.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: He knew all about that detail and the fact that I knew where the rental house was, so he knew I was telling the truth when he wrote me this letter, denying my credibility.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: And it was the letter.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Was that the first time that you found out that there were other victims?
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, and that this priest had a horrific, horrific record.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: See he was.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: This is how scuzzy these fucking people are.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: The priest was named he's dead now.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: His name was Fenny and Mies and I mean he had a record a mile long.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: The KBI, the Kansas Bureau of Investigation, has been investigating the Catholic Church in Kansas.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Here in a week It'll be three years because the agent that I talked to he told me that the more they investigate, the more shit they uncover, that they have to continue to investigate.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: So it's going on three years now.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: Well, it sounds like it's going to be a never ending thing, the way I mean, if they keep on uncovering and keep on uncovering, I mean this could last a very long time.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: It's unbelievable, it really is, and it's just people are just the scum of the earth.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: They really are.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: So then when Naman writes me his letter, he knows I'm telling the truth.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: When he wrote me this letter it's on my website, iamnotcatholiccom, and I dissect this letter and it's just beyond despicable.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: So anyway, if I back up for just a second so Fenny and Mies the priest he had a horrific record.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: He was out in Western Kansas and he committed horrible sexual assault.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: So the independent review board out there told one of his victims out there that it was all her fault.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: What happened to her?
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Then they packed up Fenny and Mies in the middle of the night and sent him down the road to Kansas City to little Mikey Foreman and God knows how many other victims.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: So my lawyer in Florida also wrote a letter to the Catholics out in Western Kansas with some weird branch of the Catholic Church called it see their cappichons, or capuchins, however the fuck they say it.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: So my lawyer was also seeking compensation from them because they knew all about him and they fucking sent him down the road to Kansas City.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: So in the letter that Norman writes me I got it right here in front of me he says towards the end of the letter he said.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: This is just so disgusting, based on my careful review of the extensive report provided to me by the independent review board.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Let me back up for a second.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: I already explained how ridiculous the independent review board is, norman, when he wrote me this letter the Archbishop, the Archasshole he knew that I knew how ridiculous this independent review board is, and in this letter he writes me in writing, he calls it the independent review board three times in writing.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: There's a Catholic priest, a Catholic professor and a Catholic lawyer.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Nothing independent about that at all.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: So he says, based on my careful review of the extensive report provided me by the independent review board, I agree with their conclusion that we are unable to substantiate your credibility of your claims against Finney and Meese.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Well, he knew those details and that detail that my lawyer told me about the pillow shaped like a ball bat.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Archbishop Norman, he's got the whole file on Finney and Meese.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: He knows a thousand times more about Finney and Meese than my lawyer does.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: So there's probably even more evidence that's proven that I'm telling the truth.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: So then he says this is really horrible.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: He knows I'm telling the truth.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: I have forwarded the findings of our independent review board to the superior of the Capuchin province of mid-America, brother Christopher Propovac, for review and consideration.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: So what he said right there is.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: I took the initiative and I reached out to the Capuchins and lied to them about your credibility Because, he's telling me, he told the computians that he could not substantiate my credibility after a full investigation.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: So now he just he want me to have no justice from his archdiocese.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: He doesn't want me to have so much as a gallon of gasoline from any responsible party to even get to therapy.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: He reached out to make sure that I got nothing from any responsible party.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: And then he says the province has its own procedures for reviewing claims against members and will review the information I have forwarded to them.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: The information he forwarded to them is that I have no credibility.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: And he knows I do have credibility.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: And then, after he tells me this, after he tells me that he reached out and lied to another responsible party about this shit, then the last paragraph is so despicable.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: And again this letter.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: I just like this whole letter on my website, iamnotcafliccom.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: The last paragraph again he knows I'm telling the truth, he knows he's causing me a great deal of additional agony and suffering and mental and emotional distress, because this is like my whole fucking life we're talking about here.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: And at the end he says this is just beyond despicable.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: I do realize that my conclusion is not what you had hoped to receive, but my sincere prayer and hope is that, despite this conclusion, you are able, through God's abundant and unfailing grace, to experience healing and peace in your life.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Now the very the first sense of that, of that last paragraph is so fucking rotten.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: He says I do realize that my conclusion is not what you had hoped to receive.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: I'd like to be on national TV doing an interview.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: I'd like to read that and then look up at the camera and say isn't it nice of Joseph to tell me that he realizes that his conclusion is not, when I am home to receive what an arrogant piece of shit.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Then he says it's his sincere prayer that I am able through.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: God's abundant and unfailing grace to experience healing and peace in my life.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: So he's clearly lying about his own sincere prayer, as he's knowingly causing me a great deal of additional agony and pain and suffering.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: He's saying that it's his sincere prayer that I experience healing and peace.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: He actually interrupted his own lie about his own sincere prayer with the words through God's abundant and unfailing grace.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's just so fucking despicable.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: Well, here's my thing too.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: I'm looking at the letter right now because I've got your website pulled up.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: So, going back to what you were saying, where he mentions that he sent the information from his findings to the Capuchin province of mid-America.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: He also states that they have their own procedures of reviewing claims.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: If you're really wanting justice, why not just let them review it, however they review it, as opposed to sticking your nose in because you feel like, okay, well, we've reviewed this and these are my findings here.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: Let me tell you what you should also find why not let them just do their own procedures and review the claim without any additional bias?
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: And on top of that, when he reached out to them, he flat out lied to them.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: This fucking asshole does not want me to receive a gallon of gasoline to get to my therapy and while he's doing this he's preaching healing, mercy and empathy to the public.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: I mean this guy is.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: He is such a fucking snake and he's got everybody in Kansas City looking at him like he's Jesus.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: It just makes me sick.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: And then he signs off the letter.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: First of all, let me go back.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: He clearly lied about his own sincere prayer, because after he told me that it's his sincere prayer that I experienced healing and peace in my life, after he said that when he knew I was telling the truth, then he spent several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees to use the horribly unjust, cheap ass statute of limitations against me for excruciating three and a half years, including my appeal, to deny me my day in court.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: So he's clearly, clearly lying his ass off about his own sincere prayer.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: And here's the thing about that.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Joseph Noman is not some 23-year-old first-year Catholic priest.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: This fucking asshole is a senior Catholic archbishop.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: And he's interrupting his own lie about his own prayer with the words through God's abundant and unfailing grace.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: And then he signs off on the letter.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: I don't even know what this fucking means, but he signs off after this despicable letter full of filthy lies.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: He signs off sincerely yours in Jesus, the Lord of life.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: So the last thing he does in this despicable letter is he urinates all over Jesus Christ.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's no two ways about it.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: He pisses all over Jesus Christ and this archbishop Noman.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: There's no doubt in my mind that fucking piece of shit is an atheist.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: He's not.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Well, the shit that he's done, the evilness of that fucking snake.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: He doesn't give a fuck about meeting his maker at the pearly gates.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Fuck, he's laughing his ass off at that nonsense.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: I mean clearly by his own actions and I cringe to think of all the horrible evil shit that he's done that I don't know about.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: The guy is just, he's fucking evil and people think he's like Jesus.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: And one of the stories on my website I think it was the second story I did on KCTV5, the story starts out on the news with part of the video with Archbishop Noman in this large Catholic church and they put this video out on Facebook and it was designed to get people to keep donating money to the Catholic church In Archbishop Noman.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: He's stamped this video.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: This is a prepared video, a prepared statement, and he's standing in this large Catholic church arch asshole Joseph Noman is.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: And the first thing he says on this video is he calls the widespread rape and sodomy of children by Catholic priests clergy misconduct.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: That's what he calls that.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: And then the next thing he says about that.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: I just want to back up for a second.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: So misconduct, that's all he had to say about it was just misconduct.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: It's right on that video in my story.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: It's a second news story towards the end of my story.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: And then the next thing he says is that he's deep.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: This has deeply saddened him because it has wounded the church.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: There's no concern about all the millions of victims, all the children.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: He's concerned because it has wounded the church.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: And then later in the same video, the guy is a fucking snake.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: In the same video, later on, he's talking about Jesus Christ and he says he never promised a sinless church.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: That's Joseph.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: That's his explanation, and his response to this horrible shit is Jesus never promised a sinless church.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Oh my God.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: And I would like to ask people I'd love to ask this on national TV.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: I wonder how many people would call the rape of their child by a Catholic priest clergy misconduct.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: And I'd like to know how many grandparents would call the rape of their grandchild by a Catholic priest clergy misconduct.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Which always leads me to this in my thoughts.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: I've never been in jail or prison, but I've watched some lockup shows, you know, and in maximum security penitentiaries those maximum security inmates, the worst of the worst you know in society.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: They fucking hate pedophiles with a passion and with damn good reason.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: You're better off going into prison as a snitch than a pedophile.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: They fucking hate pedophiles.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: So we know for a fact, for a fact the Catholic church hides, protects, supports and enables child rapists and not just here or there in every city across the United States and all over the world.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: That is not up for dispute.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: That is a fact.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: And we know that these inmates despise pedophiles.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: So when it comes to this horrible subject, maximum security inmates are on a much higher moral ground than the Catholic church.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't see how anyone could possibly dispute that.
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: Well, and here's the thing I still don't under like this.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: Okay, so let's take this back to Archbishop whatever his name is Naumann.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: So he's on video saying that, calling rape misconduct of clergy, and his explanation is Jesus says that there would not be.
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: He never said that there would be a sinless church.
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: And here's the thing.
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: I have a problem with this.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: Not because people are not perfect we understand that people are not perfect but just because Jesus didn't say that we would have a sinless church doesn't mitigate the responsibility that needs to be taken for individuals who are raping and abusing children Like that doesn't mitigate just because he never said that it would be a sinless church or a sinless organization or whatever you want to call it.
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: It doesn't mitigate the fact that these horrible things are happening and for that to be downplayed.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: If you have a minute sometime you go to that and watch him say it.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: And his tone he thinks he's got a really good point.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: And before he said it he says Jesus promised to be with the church fundamentally no, to prevent fundamental error.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: And then just like this he goes.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: But he never promised a sinless church, like that's a big, you know.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: That's a legitimate explanation for this shit.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: And when he says, when he calls it misconduct, I think I say in my story it took me over a year to write that story, just because I would get so fucking pissed right now.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I couldn't even go in this room where I was writing it for weeks at a time.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: Well, there's no doubt in my mind if there is a hell, a heaven and a hell, there's a special place in hell for Archbishop Naumann, and when he gets there I hope he suffers massive quote unquote misconduct, fucking piece of shit.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Well, and here's the thing, I'm sure that that God knows that there's going to be sin in church, because there's some, you know like, but to me it makes me think of sin such as like gluttony or maybe some judgment, right, but raping a child is an action that is grown by grown people that knows better than
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: to do that.
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: And there ain't the fact that there's the content.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: Look, they know, they know better than to do what they're doing, because or else you wouldn't be hiding it right, you wouldn't be lying hiding doing all of these things and to just sweep it under the rug in this nonchalant way is what's kind of got me dumb, founded right.
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: Okay, yes, we understand that things are going to happen.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: We understand that the world is the way that it is.
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: It is not always pretty, but at the end of the day, if something is happening that's that wrong, that is that filthy, that is that corrupt.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: How can you just nonchalantly be like oh well, you know.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: I know when he calls it misconduct, because you know he's he's he's trying to minimize this, you know.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, if I hear, if I were to hear clergy misconduct, I would think maybe of a priest, of a Catholic priest swiping 10 bucks from petty cash to go buy a pack of smokes, or something like that.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: Yes, right.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: Not to do unbelievable?
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: Just horrific shit to children.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: You know, after they after they, after they rape a child.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: You know what they do.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: They go to them.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: They go say mass and pray to the Lord.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: And that that misconduct, uh verbiage, you know like it makes me think of when I, when I was in court over, you know, my hate crime.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: They wanted to say that they wanted to take attempted murder off the table and make it a salt.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: And they said, well, he did, but he didn't murder you.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: And I was like, but that's what the word attempted means, like he tried, just because he didn't succeed in it, he tried and they, they kept trying to bully me and intimidate me into changing what the word attempted met.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: You know, like it was just a way of it was a way of minimizing it yeah.
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: And that's the same thing that's happened here.
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: It sounds like it sounds like in this sermon or whatever, that he was preaching, he was minimizing what has actually happened.
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: And you know, and look, I'm not saying that that every you know that every priest is bad or whatever the case may be, but we know it has been proven that there are some that are out there.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: How dare you minimize it?
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: How dare you?
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: Basically, it's almost like you're spitting in in some of these, um, you know, victims' faces by minimizing what's happened to them.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: And in Mike, one of the most powerful conversations I have had with you that has really stuck with me, that we've had off the record is people don't realize that this is going nowhere for the victims.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: This is something that you have had since you were now in sixth grade and that you will have until the day that you died.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: This is not going anywhere, and can you talk to us about that a little bit?
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, when see the church?
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: They talk about healing and I said that earlier that that has nothing to do with with survivors or victims, that's just public relations.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: Because you know, even though I really cannot do this, I'm going to do it anyway.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: I'm going to speak for all survivors of sexual assault.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: There is no healing, there's coping, there's doing the best you can, there's living with it the best you can.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: You can compartmentalize it, you can cope the best you can, but there's no healing.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: For example, when I was in the fourth grade, I broke my leg playing backyard football.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, it sounded like a firecracker, it was loud, it was horrible.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Well, my leg has totally healed.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: It's like it never happened.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: Well, for survivors of sexual assault, it will never be like it never happened.
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: Hmm, that's powerful, and I think people need to understand that because so so I'm.
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: So, of the the three of us who are on this conversation, I have not experienced that, and the long you know and, of course, getting to know David, you know he's pretty much, you know let me know that, hey, these are things that I deal with every day for the rest of my life.
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: Some days I'm fine, other days I'm triggered, and so I think that's important for people to understand.
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: Like, this is not something that just goes away.
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: It's not something where you get to say, hey, well, that happened 20 years ago, you should be over that.
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: No it doesn't work that way.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Mike, I think I told you about how you know I was a part of the victim's compensation and so you know, I just had to save my receipts and turn them in for medications, doctors, appointments, anything that had anything to do with my attack financially.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: And they stopped sending me a check and so I called the state and I asked them.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: I said you know you all have stopped reimbursing me, are you not getting it?
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: What's going on?
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: And they said, oh, maybe it's been five years.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: You should be healed by now.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: And I was like that's not the way this shit works.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: And that right, there is just absolutely just that's just just just fucking pitiful.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: And what's really disgusting about what you just said, david, is these are the people, these are the authorities that are saying that, saying that to you, yeah, and people in charge are telling you no, it's been five years, you're good to go See you later.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: Who the fuck?
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, that reminds me before I forget this really fucking perks.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of triggers.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: One of my worst triggers is driving by a large Catholic church and the parking lots full of cars.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: That just fucking makes me sick.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Do you do you know how many victims?
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: And I doubt we would ever have an exact number but do you know how many cases have actually been brought to surface about this particular church or priest?
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: No, but that, not exactly this, just this is just disgusting for me.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: The Catholic church, now the, the, the in diocese and archdiocese all over the country.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: They're releasing what the church calls lists of credibly accused priests.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: So the Catholic church is using implied consent that they're trustworthy.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: Who in the holy fuck is the scuzzy ass Catholic church to decide what allegations are credible?
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: We know for a fact they lie and lie and lie.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: And for them to even have a gall to even say here's a list of credibly accused priests and that's a fancy way of saying here's a list of priests, but there's more priests that we're just not going to tell you about those.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, these people are just absolute scum.
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: It's a distraction tactic is what it is Right.
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: So if, if I keep your, if I keep your attention over here on this list, You're not going to take attention to all the other things that are going on.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: I'd like to also just talk about just for a minute, about in February of 2020, I had no idea this was going on.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: I just happened to see the front page of the Kansas City Stars this Sunday and there's a front page article about there's a bill in Topeka to do away with the statute of limitations when it comes to sexual assault of children especially.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: And so I read the article and right there on the front page is the name of the priest that assaulted me and they had this hearing in Topeka and there was like four or five survivors spoke to lawmakers.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: A couple of them were victim of priests.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: One of them was a victim of the same priest that assaulted me.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: This guy was all over the place.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: Well, after these four or five victims spoke this is all in the newspaper and it's just so disgusting Then the spokesman for the Catholic Church spoke.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: His name's Chuck Weber and see, he spoke last and of course, that's by design, so he can just fucking lie right through his ass and then nobody can dispute it because he has the last word.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: He talks last.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Well, the first thing he told lawmakers in Topeka, kansas, it was the Catholic Church is neutral on this bill to do away with the statute of limitations.
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: But why would they be?
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: That is such a blatant fucking lie.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: It's unbelievable.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: And based on this and this is all what I'm going to talk about now I was going to give a speech to lawmakers in late March of 2020, but it got postponed and or canceled because of COVID.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: I'm still hoping to give this speech.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, he says that they're neutral on this bill to do away with the statute.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: I want to tell lawmakers that the Catholic Church they use the statute of limitations against me for three and a half horrible years.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: Every day and every night, I just agonized my guts out for my day in court and every single day of those three and a half years Arch Phil Thratnamen and the Catholic Church they knew damn well that God was not on board with their statute of limitations defense and every day of those three and a half years, they didn't give a shit what God thought about that.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: So, based on their own actions, not only are they not neutral on that bill to do away with the statute, the statute is more important to the church than God.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: Based on their own actions, then he says, on behalf of the Catholic Church, I would like to tell all victims we are very, very sorry.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: Again, we are very, very sorry so that despicable little piece of shit, chuck Weber and the Catholic Church.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: They're telling lawmakers that they're very sorry while they're lobbying to keep the statute in place.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: So they're saying how sorry they are while they're trying to ensure a great deal of additional agony and suffering for future generations of victims.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: That's how filthy these people are.
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: Well, and if you were really sorry, if you were really caring for these individuals who have been assaulted, who are victims of all these horrific things, you're not going to be neutral on the statute of limitation, right?
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: You would say, hey, we need to do away with the statute of limitation, we need to make sure that there goes no stone unturned.
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: Okay, so let's say that you are a good Catholic priest, or whatever your affiliation is.
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: It seems to me you would be like no, we need to do away with this, because we need to make sure that we root all of these individuals who have this filthy behavior out period, because that's the only way you move forward.
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: Because it goes back to exactly what you said, right If we don't, if we continue to let this happen, then future generations is just going to continue to perpetuate the abuse, in a lot of cases, to children.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: Well, and here's my thing with it too.
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: So you know, there's that saying that if you have 10 cops and two of them were bad but eight of them isn't saying anything, then you have 10 bad cops.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: If I was in the Catholic church, especially if I was a priest, and I knew of the stigmas that come with it, and what am I looking for I would not want to be affiliated with and I would go above and beyond to prove that I'm the good one and to get rid of the bad ones, because I wouldn't want to be associated with that.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: So when you talk about the church as, or the Catholic organization as a whole, there are people that might not be bad people, but they're not doing anything to stop the bad people, which is making them bad people.
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: Right right.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: My take on that is you know, just because a Catholic priest isn't a pedophile, that doesn't mean he's a good Catholic priest.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Right Like in the movie, there's this Bishop Bigler in Wyoming and some people think he's really great, he's on the side of the survivors and he's disgusted with all this shit.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: Well see, for me, first of all, I wouldn't trust him any farther than I could throw him.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: And number two how could he be so great if he is dedicating and devoting his entire life to the Catholic church, where he knows how filthy and evil they are?
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: He fucking knows.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: And here's what I'd love to say.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: This on national TV, I fantasized about the movie winning an Oscar and I could say this in my acceptance speech what I'm about to say has nothing to do with God or anyone's faith in God.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: What I'm about to say.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: I don't see how anyone could possibly dispute these two statements.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: Number one the Catholic church is the largest, oldest and most evil pedophile ring on earth.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: You can Google Catholic priest, child sexual assault and Catholic church coverup in and then type in any city you want, any fucking city in the entire United States and most all over the world, and tons of shit will come up and the tons of shit that comes up is just the tip of the iceberg.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: And the way I know that I call this an evil perfect storm has four parts.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: Number one sexual assault is the least reported crime of all serious crimes, especially when it happens to children.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: Number two these Catholic priest child predators aren't stupid.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: They don't want to get cocked, they are slick, cunning predators.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: Number three the Catholic church.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: We know for a fact that they hide, protect, support and enable child rapists.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: We know this.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: And number four the media is very soft on this.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: I did those two stories on channel five here in Kansas City and I all but beg the reporter if we could just do one more story.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: So I could, one more brief story where I could dissect the letter that Archbishop Naumann wrote me.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: And I got the feeling.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: This reporter, angie Rocono, I got the feeling that's exactly what she wanted to do, but she finally I was pastoring her and she got a little agitated and she said listen, mike, this is not my decision, it is up to my supervisors and that's as far as they want to take this story.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: So the supervisors at a local TV channel five, cbs, they don't want their viewers to know that this letter about from Archbishop Naumann, where he covers me up and lies about his own prayer.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: So of course I have to wonder if they're Catholic.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: Then the second statement that I don't see in how anyone could possibly just wait a minute.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: So those four ingredients of that perfect storm, when you put all of that together, all of the mountains of shit that we know about the church, is just the tip of the iceberg.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: For every Catholic priest, child predator, I think there could easily be 20 or 30 more that we don't know of for each one.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: So there could be just hundreds of thousands of child predators, catholic priests.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: And then the second thing that I don't think anyone could possibly dispute is Jesus Christ would never donate money to the Catholic church Never.
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: I'd love to debate that with the Pope, with the smartest Catholic lawyer, any priest, any Catholic, anybody, because there's no way in hell Jesus Christ would donate money to this organization.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: You know when I was on YouTube looking for your podcast and I haven't even watched this yet because it's just so disgusting, but I need to watch it just because it gives me more ammunition, because I fucking hate the Catholic church.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: There's a thing on YouTube where just wrap your mind around this.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Catholic nuns have been pressured by the Catholic church into getting abortions after being raped by Catholic priests.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: Now that's their foundation is no abortions, and they're pressuring their nuns to get abortions.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: How anybody could seek spiritual wisdom and guidance from this organization of humans is just beyond me.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: And that's what it is.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: It's an organization of humans and people get it off confused with God.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: It's ridiculous.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: Well, and I think that's the thing that I mean, and I don't know I had talked to you about this that my husband is not really like.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: He has a problem with organized religion in general, and I think that's where I mean, and not just, you know, with Catholicism, I mean with any organized religion he has issue with, and part of it is because you have people and not all organizations.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: But there are organizations who will prey upon people, people who are seeking hope, who are, you know, they're down trotted in their, you know, in their life or whatever the case may be, oh, absolutely.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: And they prey upon them because they're they know they're looking for something to believe in and then, instead of being genuine and true, you know they take advantage of that.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: And another word you could exchange for prey.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: Prey upon them is to exploit yes, exploit people's faith in God.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: Archbishop Solomon, he, he, he exploits people's faith in Jesus Christ and God to fog up the rape of children.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: Let me tell you one last little story about Bishop Naumann.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: My lawyers filed my lawsuit in March of 2014, 2015.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: I'm waiting day and night for my day in court.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: Every minute of the day.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: That's with me.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: It's horrible.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: So after a year, after we filed, the church has a dismissal hearing.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: They try to dismiss it because of the statute and the judge refused to dismiss it.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: So then, a few months later, the church, they want another.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: They scheduled another, a second dismissal hearing.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: So this meant months and months and months of additional agony for me.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: So they scheduled a second dismissal hearing then on August 12th of 2015.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: This is what really really took me to the edge.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: That's all I can say about that is, there was an article in the Kansas City Star and, because the movie Spotlight was on the horizon, archbishop Naumann organized these ridiculous healing services called the Hope Services, which stands for Healing Our Parishes Through Empathy.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: This was all in the newspaper At the time.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: Naumann was also the temporary bishop in Kansas City, missouri, because the Bishop Finn had failed to report graphic child pornography on one of his priest's computers.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: So this shit with the church never ends.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: That's a whole nother story.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: But so Bishop Naumann is also in Missouri temporarily and there's a big article in the paper about the Hope Services and he's going to lead the first Hope Service himself.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: But in the paper describing the Hope Services there's also he wrote a letter to a bunch of victims in Missouri who had all settled their lawsuits.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: So he used these victims as pawns in this little trade of public relations.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: And in this letter and I have a copy of this letter and it is so fucking despicable in this letter that he sent victims who had all settled.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: I won't go through the whole thing, but here's what he says In this part of it was in the newspaper.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: It says this is Archbishop talking to victims who had all already settled, so he's just using them.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: He says this was in the newspaper too.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: I truly regret how deeply this has impacted your life and the lives of your family members and friends, as well as your relationship to the church.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: When he said that to the public, this was in the newspaper, so that wasn't even meant for the people that got the letter that's meant for the whole Kansas City area to read, that.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: When he said that, when he said I truly regret, at that time he had been directly and intentionally making the impact in my life a fuck of a lot deeper for, at the time, the last 20 months.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: So that is such a despicable lie that he regrets how deeply this has impacted their lives.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: And he starts that filthy lie with the words I truly.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: And there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever the people that got that letter in Missouri that had all settled because Missouri their statute isn't nearly as bad as Kansas.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: If those victims that he wrote that letter to and used for his public relations, if they would have been assaulted in Kansas, he would have used the statute against them just like he was doing to me.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: And he's just a complete evil fucking snake say I truly regret, oh my God.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: And when he said that I was home.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: When he led the first hope service, healing Our Parishes Through Empathy on August 12th of 2015,.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: When he was doing that, I was home agonizing my guts out over my second dismissal hearing that was scheduled for two weeks later.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: I was so desperate and still am for my day in court and for what little justice as possible.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: I totally felt mentally and emotionally like I was out on the wing of an airplane at 30,000 feet, all directly because of Naman.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: And when he was leading the hope service two weeks before my second dismissal hearing, he stood in the front of a Catholic church, and all Catholic churches are the ones that I was in when I was a kid have a large statue of Jesus Christ nailed to a cross at the front of the church.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: So Arch Filthrat Joseph Naman, dressed in one of his colorful archbishop costumes, stood directly under that large statue of Jesus nailed to a cross and he fucking lied right through his ass about healing, about mercy and empathy.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: You know, when he reached out to the caputians and lied to them about my credibility, naman, he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees to deny me my day in court.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: I was out on that wing of that airplane at 30,000 feet, while he's giving the first, healing our parishes through empathy service.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: God damn, I hate that son of a bitch.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's just, he's an evil fucking snake.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: And another thing about him that they boast transparency and accountability from within and throughout the church.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: To my knowledge, arch fuckhead Joseph Naman.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: This is totally by design.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: Of course he will not take or answer a single question about this.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: He releases these cowardly chicken shit written statements.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: That way there's no disputing.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: He could just lie and say wherever he wants.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: He could say that he lived on Mars last month and then once he issues a written statement, then that lie has been completed.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: There will be no disputing or contesting the lies.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: My God, I just wanted to ask you when you came public with everything and started doing these interviews and the news castings and even the documentary, how did the public treat you then?
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: And when we did the two news stories I got a few at the end of my on the news story.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: My sign with my websites is on there and the reporter even read both sides of my sign with my website and I got I wasn't really treated.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: I was just kind of ignored really.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: I got maybe seven or eight supportive emails back then and then that was about it.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: And then when the movie happened now that was I couldn't believe it, man.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: We went out to Tell your Ride over Labor Day weekend, tell your Ride film festival and going out there, driving out there, I didn't know how this was going to go.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: You never know.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: And my biggest concern, driving to Tell your Ride, is what I'm going to be feeling driving home.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, for all I know, we could get booed out of the theater.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: So it first played on Friday night and Tell your Ride and at the end of my independent review board scene in the meeting, the theater applauded very loudly.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: I mean during the movie, right at the end of my scene, the whole theater applauded.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: And then at the end of the movie, me and the other five survivors in the movie and the director, robert Green, we went up to the front.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: We stood up at the front of the theater and received a loud standing ovation.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: It was unbelievable.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: Then we went to a bar and we saw started seeing these reviews coming out and it was incredible.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: Then we went to New York and got a very loud ovation in New York and had a big UNA and a cocktail.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: It was really, it was really awesome.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: I will never give up and I can't stress this enough.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: I want the only partial justice possible and that is a large check at the expense of the Catholic church.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: And if I won a billion dollar lottery tonight, I would still be just as desperate and hungry for those fucking assholes to pay, and the more they don't want to pay, the more that I desperately need them to pay.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: If I did win that billion dollar lottery tonight, I'd be just as hungry for them to pay me.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: I would also blank at the entire United States with billboards pointing out just exactly how filthy and despicable the Catholic church really is, and in my this is even opinion.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: This is a fact based on their track record and their history.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: The only way to prevent this shit in the future is a very simple equation Less Catholics, less children being raped.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: They want to talk about no, we got new checks and balances in a place.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: No, we're going to.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, fuck you and your checks and balances.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: They cannot be trusted at all.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: They can't they just I mean senior Archbishop calling that the independent review board three times in writing.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: These people cannot be trusted.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: They fucking lie, and lie, and lie.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: So what I'm reduced to now is I'm going to be a squeaky wheel as much as I possibly can and I want to make the.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: And here's another thing when I went to the independent review board, if they would have said this was in 2013,.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: If they would have said Mike, we're going to spend several hundred thousand dollars in legal fees defending your lawsuit, but if you want to, instead of paying these despicable scuzzy ass lawyers, we would be willing to give you that money If they would have said that I would have taken that, I would have been pissed but I could have moved on the best I can.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: You know the Catholic church's lawyers.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they would just say we're just doing our job, we're doing our job.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: These Catholic lawyers, these, these, these, the Catholic church's lawyers are the absolute despicable scum of the earth, just like the Catholic church.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: These Catholic, these lawyers of the Catholic church you know what they do.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: They work and fight for childhood sexual assault victims to have a great deal of additional pain and suffering, a great deal, so that they can get lots of money for themselves.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: Well, that's exactly what they say, the Catholic church loves that scum.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: They're in bed with that scum.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: They pay that scum.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: But they never talk about that during the healing services.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 3: Well, I think they don't talk about that enough in general, like not, and not just in the Catholic church, but we're talking about victims, like people who rape in you know individuals or abuse, or you know children, even outside of the Catholic church, the the the victim normally gets dragged through absolute hell during these proceedings and nobody likes to talk about that.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: Nobody likes to talk about how because you know they're, because the other side's lawyer they're literally paid to try to make you seem like a liar, like you're not credible, like you're the scum of the earth, when that's not the case.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: No, and the Catholic church has the money to wave in front of these people's faces to, you know, like these, these lawyer's faces, to make them want to see that dollar sign more than seeing helping a child.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: But really, you know, just pisses me off the Catholic church's lawyers.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: If they were in my shoes they'd be screaming for their day in court, just like I am.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: No doubt about that, for my opinion, yeah.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: Well you know, you know I had talked before about, you know, that check, getting a check from them on what that means to you.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: And it's because it's because that's how we punish and reward people, right, if you, if you do something good at work, they reward you with a bonus.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: Or you know, if, if that we get pulled over by the cops and we get hit with a speeding ticket that we've got to pay for, because that's how we punish people.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: And so you know, people want to sometimes have bad remarks or comments because someone is saying that they might want to check, but that's how you punish and bring recognition to to this kind of situation and I think they deserve that check.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and I'm going to, just from a different perspective.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: And again, this is someone who you know is not the receiver or has not been a victim.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 3: If you're not going to give me my day in court, then you need to pay me.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry this thing happened to me.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: I'm going to have to live with it for the rest of my life.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: You need to pay somehow, and if it can't be in court, then you need to pay me some money.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry, that's just how I feel about it.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: I agree, because they cannot put a price on what this organization has taken away from you.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: You know I mean for the fact that this has been a part of your everyday life, that it's affected every relationship that you've had, regardless of the status of it, and that is going nowhere.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: You can't put a dollar sign on that.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, I know.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: And back to that letter that Dominic wrote those survivors.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: He said I truly regret how deeply this has impacted your lives and the lives of your family and friends, based on his actions, that is.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: That is such a fucking lie.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's a fucking lie.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: Well, you know I had a question earlier and so it's kind of backtracking a little bit, but can you explain to us you know you talked about when your mother found out?
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: Obviously you told her immediately.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: She baked a cake.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: She wanted it to stay hidden from your father.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: Can we talk about your father's response to this, like how did he take that?
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: What was his response to it?
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: He was just completely blown away, and so I told him in 2012,.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: I recovered the memories in 2011,.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: Didn't say anything to anybody for about a year, and then I told my dad and at the time my mother had dementia, so it was just a bad situation but my dad, he was just, he was blown away.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: It's just unbelievable, Wow.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: So you said this happened before.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: And before I forget, I just want to put this in before I forget.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: Talking about the church's lawyers and what you were saying, kiona, did you?
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: Do you remember?
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: In my story I talk about that deposition, that one survivor.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: They put one survivor through.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: We want to talk about a graphic warning.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: You know, this guy was horribly assaulted by several priests and it was just, it's just disgusting.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: And in this book, in two depositions, this fucking lawyer for the church, he asked this guy over and over again how these priests would come in his mouth.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: Repeatedly, over and over, for no reason really.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: And then it got so bad that this guy, during this deposition, he said you know, I'm sorry, but I got, I got to go out in the hall and gather my composure and just, I got to go out in the hall for a minute.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: So the guy goes out in the hall after these ridiculous questions.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: Then he comes back in the room and that fucking lawyer for the church says, okay, we're going to pick up right where we left off.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: And this, the church is paying this lawyer to do this while they're preaching to the public about healing, mercy and empathy.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: It's so infuriating.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: The church is worse than the pedophiles they protect and you know when, when, when the church, when they've spent tens of millions of dollars lobbying and fighting like hell to keep the statute of limitations firmly in place all over the United States.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: That also is a recruiting tool to recruit more pedophile priests.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: They're saying listen, you guys, we got your back.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: We're spending tens of millions to keep the statute.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: That's got to tell you something.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: We're going to protect you, we're going to hide you.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: I mean it's horrible, it's just beyond horrible.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: And for Archbishop Noman to say that you know that he's doing his healing services when they're doing those kinds of depositions.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 3: Well, and I I mean just listening to that and the fact that you would have, well, the fact that that's even allowed to me is is insane.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 3: And don't get me wrong I understand that as a lawmaker and as someone who's in the judicial you know, you know, that's your profession that at the end of the day you want to get to the bottom of the truth.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: But to have someone who is a victim of abuse, of rape, and to send them through that type of questioning, to me it just shouldn't even be allowed, like that is just so Right.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: And they're paying for that.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: The Catholic church funds and orchestrates those depositions.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: And the worst part is for me, when they're doing that they're talking about, you know, to the public, about the deep sorrow and the empathy, the deep empathy they have for all victims.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: And one thing I'd also like to say about Archbishop Noman.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: When he did those hope services that I explained earlier, they were just ridiculous, I mean just pitiful.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: When he did that, I couldn't help but picture and it was all in the newspaper.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: I couldn't help but picture and imagine Catholic priests I mean excuse me, catholics all over Kansas City thinking and saying this.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: You know, sure it's just terrible, just terrible.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: You know what's happened to these poor victims.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: It's just awful.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: But the real moral of this dilemma is just look at the compassion of the church, look how the church has reached out to these poor victims and to provide them with the healing and the mercy and the empathy that they so very much deserve.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: The compassion of the church.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, isn't that disgusting that scenario.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: Catholics are thinking that they're thinking look at the compassion of the church as they reach out to these poor victims.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: It's the exact opposite.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: If they can, they'll bombard you with those kinds of depositions and then use the statute of limitations against you and then tell you to just go suffer quietly.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: So they're so fucking despicable and they've got Catholics just so hoodwinked how anyone could possibly support the Catholic church.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: It's just unbelievable, it's truly, and I know the reason is because they get brainwashed into that crap when they're five years old.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: A couple of minutes ago, you made a comment about suffering in silence.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: One thing that I admire about you is that you refused to suffer in silence, so I know that we've talked about it a little bit.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: But tell us about the protesting that you've done and about your website the protesting I just got.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: I have a sign that's in the movie and one side of the sign that says I am not Catholiccom, please read my story.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: And the other side it says it is an absolute poverty.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: The statute of limitations is the crown jewel of the Catholic church.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: What does God think of that?
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: With my name at the bottom and I wouldn't stood out in front of a couple of Catholic churches with that sign.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: And then I started getting this vibe that I was putting myself in danger.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of men, especially men, will not be as vocal about sexual assault as you have, and so I could see those kind of protests pissing off the people that the men that were also victims afraid of.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, if this is brought to surface, if this is brought to the forefront of everyone's mind, then my assault is going to be exposed and I'm not ready to face it.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that reminds me of here, several years ago, that you know that of that shit that happened at Michigan State, those with those girl gymnasts, yeah, that were assaulted.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: This one young lady I think she she was I don't know her name but I think I'm pretty sure she made it to the actual Olympics and she and she was assaulted.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: And she said it was at some awards show where she was on TV speaking at some show and she said and I felt like she, she was talking directly to me she said never, ever, let anyone change the way that you tell your story.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: I really like that Like it was probably Allie Reisman probably.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 3: I think her name is Allie.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: Well, that really took that to heart.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 3: Well, and I think that's important for victims to hear.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 3: Anyway, this thing happened and people need to know, and again, I'm learning so much through my friendship with David is that suffering in silence doesn't do anything for anyone.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 3: It doesn't do anything for the person who actually experienced it.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 3: It doesn't do anything for those individuals who might experience abuse in the future.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: So, speaking of that in that video, we're not going to cause a clergy misconduct.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: Also in that video he says I'm very impressed with the courage of victims to come forward so that others won't suffer as they have.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: He's causing the suffering, he's directly deriving when he reached out.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: Just the principle of this he knew.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: I was telling the truth.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: And he reached out to the cappichons and told them I have no credibility, when he knew I did.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: And then after that, then he says I do realize my conclusion is not what you had hoped to receive.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: The arrogance of this fucking piece of shit.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: He should be in prison.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: So what inspired the name to your website?
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: I know that when Keon and I covered it, I had made a couple of little giggles about it, because I love the name.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's very straight to the point, it's very easy to remember.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it is very easy to remember because I think I said it a million times.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: When we were talking about it, I was like look, it's wwwIamnotCatholiccom.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 3: I don't remember anything.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 3: I remember that.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my email is wwwIamnotCatholiccom.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: Did I tell you about this the last time we spoke that here?
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: Several months ago they released a report in France that they think there could be over 300,000 victims just in France just in the last 70 years.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: 300,000.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: I'd also like to mention one thing.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: This is in my website too.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: There's a link to this.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: There's a website you can go to called BishopAccountabilityorg.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: You can go to this website and just take in the pure scope of this.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: If you do that, remember that all of that that's on that website about this horrible subject, all of that is just not even the tip of the iceberg, because of the perfect storm I already talked about.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: It's unbelievable.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: There's the sheer scope of this.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: You know, there's no thousands of lawyers that rape children, or state troopers or ball players or construction workers, not like there is Catholic priests.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: The reason that is is because these pedophiles know that the Catholic Church is a great gig.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: If you're a pedophile, you got a smorgasbord of very respectful and trusting parents and then you've got the powerful, extremely powerful church backing you and protecting you.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: That's a perfect gig for a pedophile.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 3: Well, I also would think that that would make it very intimidating for some of the victims to come forward as well.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 3: You know, you think about it.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 3: You know, if you've got an organization that is this powerful and you're on the other side of it, I mean it probably feels almost as if it's impossible you know to win the case?
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, just the, just the, just the, just the principle of that independent review board.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: How ridiculous.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: That was just open, flat out lying.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, they lie so much, just like they don't even know English.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: You know what the word independent means.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: Joseph, god, damn he is.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: He is an absolute snake.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: And these Catholics in this town, they think he's like Jesus.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: That just makes me sick.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: It really does.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: It fucking makes me sick.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, one of the conversations that we had, Mike, that has stood out to me since you and I have, you know, been been talking is the story that you shared with us about the, the guy that went and killed a priest because of what he had done to his father and how you would love to be sitting in the jury.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: I would like us to talk about that for a minute, because the point of a bit resonating with me so much is you're not the only victim.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: Anybody that is in your life is now a victim of this and and that this is prime example.
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: That story is prime example.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: This it's in that crazy.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know the the priest at the time he was like 90 and apparently he had assaulted, you know just tons of children and that teenager.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: He killed that priest by ramming a crucifix down his throat and he was doing it to get revenge because that priest had assaulted his father.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd love to be on that kid's jury, yeah, well, let's talk about the mental and emotional distress, not of the father but of the teenager.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: You know, at a horrible place he must have been in mentally to do that to a human being.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: I mean what he, what the hate and the anger and the pain that that teenager was going through and I'm sure, the whole time that that 90 year old priest, during his whole pedophilia career, the church was right there hiding him and moving him around and doing all that shit.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: It's disgusting, and you know what I have found out through my experience, which is that religious or, you know, catholic related, but the my attackers seem to be more protected than I was.
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: There were more things in place to protect him.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: So, mike, before we bring this to an end, what is there anything that we missed that you would like to point out?
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: I'm sure as soon as I hang up I'll think of tons of stuff.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: Well, and the door is never going to be closed.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: If you come across more and do more, we want to know about it.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: You know we're going to.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: We're going to post all the links that you have, all your website links and everything that we mentioned, into our blogs and stuff where people can find you once we do release this.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: You know a link to my, link to my website.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 3: Yes, I am not Catholic People can read your story.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 3: I mean people need to know.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that would be awesome.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and because I feel like I feel like we will have you back on, because I feel like this is going to be one of the one of the topics that we're, you know, releasing, that people are going to have some feedback on or some questions on, and, as those come in, I would love to have you back on to ask those questions and to help fill in the blank.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: We can't thank you enough.
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: I love the relationship.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: I've learned so much from you already and a lot about sports.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 3: You and the sports are killing me.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 3: How is it that I know more about sports than you do?
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: Ben no you.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: Well, I hate to tell you guys this, but you know the Bengals are playing the Titans in the playoffs.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: Today the Titans have the number one seed.
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: So for the Chiefs here in Kansas City, all the Chiefs fans, we're playing the Buffalo Bills tomorrow night.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: Well, everyone in Buffalo and everyone in Kansas City is really rooting like hell for the Bengals to beat the Titans.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: Because Because if that happened, if the Bengals win today, then tomorrow night's game between the Chiefs and the Bills, whoever wins that game, would host the championship game.
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 3: Oh, wow.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: When today, then the Titans will host the championship game.
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: So everybody in Buffalo and Kansas City are desperately hoping for the Titans to lose.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 3: Well, look, this little Tennessee gal is saying it's not going to happen.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 3: Titans are winning this game.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you.
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 3: I said this little Tennessee gal is saying that Titans are going to win this game.
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: Titans schmightens, you follow the Titans at all.
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 3: No, not really, I've never really Well, they have a.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 3: I haven't been a Titans.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 3: I will tell you the most I ever followed the Titans was when Steve McNair was still alive, in quarterback.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: Wasn't that incredible what happened to him.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 3: I know so sad.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: You know well now the Titans.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: They have this running back named Derek Henry.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: Do you know who he is?
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: He's huge.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: I mean everybody in the NFL is huge, but the running back he looks like he's playing against children.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: We can't thank you enough.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: I've learned a lot and I'm so thankful for you reaching out the way that you have.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it and I appreciate you guys reaching out to me.
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: This is, this is good, this has been very therapeutic.
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: If nothing else for me, this is great, good, good, good Well my.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: What I'd like to do is have have this similar conversation that we just had.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: I'm fantasizing about having that with Oprah on prime time on a Sunday night.
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: She has clout.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: The plout.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: I would love to.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: I'd love to lay all this out with Oprah, like Harry and Megan did for two hours on a Sunday night.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: I'd fucking love that.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: And when you do get in touch with her, don't forget about your friends David and Keanna.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: I'd like to tell this to Oprah.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: I have a letter from a senior Catholic archbishop, clearly covered me up and lying about his own sincere prayer in writing.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: God, I'd love to dissect this with you, oprah.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm going to do that.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: I'm going to try.
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: I'm going to try to find out what her email and what her mailing address would be.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 3: Right, I mean at least worth the try.
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, like David said a lot of times, these things will go to her PR people first before they ever make it to her.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 3: But it's at least worth the try Keep being as a.
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: Again, I think it's not really.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: Credibility is not the right word, but it gives me some kind of oomph because I have this letter.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: This is not some choir, some altar boy, or a first year priest, senior Catholic priest.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: And you know one last thing.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: You know the the 10 commandments.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: The eighth commandment says that you shall not lie, and the Catholic church, repeatedly they use the eighth commandment for toilet paper.
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: I mean they do, there's just no two ways about it.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate you guys doing this with me and I'll.
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 2: I'll just wait to get your email and we'll just kind of go from there.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, Thank you, sir.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: You guys take care Wow.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: God, it was so cool to have him on and to hear his passion and stuff.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: Like I, I want to just take it all away.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: You can hear the hurt that he's had for a lifetime.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 3: Yes, definitely for a lifetime.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 3: I think what people need to understand is that, while, yes, there's lots of anger there, that's part of what some victims go through you have some individuals who are, you know, hurt or they're triggered and they can't move forward in life.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 3: I think even in the procession I think we mentioned that the lady who was in charge of the drama, the drama therapy mentioned that trauma keeps you sticky, it keeps you stuck, and that's what he's experiencing right Every day.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 3: He is stuck with this traumatic event that happened to him because there is no justice for him.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 3: Even if there was justice, it still would never go away.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 3: Even if they were to come in and excuse the expression, if they could undead his attacker right.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: Even if he were to be alive and they could arrest him, he would still have to live with the fact that he was abused for the rest of his life and after watching the documentary and having multiple conversations with him, I don't know that he's ever been able to really process the actual sexual assault abuse of it, because he's not really had a chance to really be able to process the lies and the turning of the heads and you know what I mean.
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: Like I feel like there's other parts that really haven't been able to be.
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 3: Well, no, because the worst thing that could possibly happen is for somebody to call you a liar To not fucking believe you For someone not to believe you or, better yet, they believe you.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 3: They know it happened, yeah, but they've convinced everyone else that you're lying Right.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 3: The worst thing that could possibly Even if you're not a victim, even if you're someone who has been accused of something that you didn't do right the worst thing that could happen is for somebody not to believe you.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 3: You know if that's bad.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 3: How bad is it for someone who was actually attacked, who was actually a victim of something, something that they had experienced that will be on them for the rest of their life, and for somebody to say, oh no, we can't substantiate your credibility.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: I know my heart breaks for all of these victims and developing this relationship with Mike.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: There were several phone conversations that we had and he was like, hey, when we're talking, will you mention parts of your story?
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: Even before we started recording he had even mentioned something about it, and there were several times I wanted to butt in and say I relate, I relate, I relate, I just I couldn't stop hearing him talk and I didn't want to take that away from him.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 3: No, and nor should it be.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 3: I think he mentioned something, maybe even after or before the call, where he said that one of the gymnasts who were abused by the gentleman in Michigan, the doctor, she basically said don't allow anyone to tell you how to tell your story.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 3: And I think that you have to allow him to tell his story.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 3: However, he wants to tell his story.
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: Well, and that's why we I mean we always give out disclaimers.
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: You know, at this point in the show, everyone knows that there's going to be trigger warmers, trigger warnings, but I one thing that you and I really hit home with him is we did not want him to be filtered at all.
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: No, because, and as a victim of such a horrible thing, he shouldn't have to be no, and what I can say that I respect about this man is he has a lot of anger, and rightfully so, but he knows where to direct it.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 3: It's all new.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: You know it's never to the lady or to the man passing down the street.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: No, you know he has been nothing but respectful to us and you know, and he knows where his anger is directed.
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: And you know, if you were talking to him about sports, that's one thing, but when you're talking about a Catholic church, that's well, and just to probably so Right, and that's something different, because that is the experience that he has had with the Catholic church.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, I mentioned on the call with him today that part of the reason that he impacted me when I was watching the procession was because I had known people like him my entire life, people who I thought were just, you know, they were just angry to be angry.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 3: I never once stopped to think about what has happened to this person.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 3: What has this person went through?
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 3: And it kind of broke my heart when I watched it, because it's like, you know, I've been going through life not, you know, looking at people with understanding, like making snap judgments and not understanding what they have been through.
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 3: And after getting to know him and understanding what he has went through, like you know, it's bad enough that he has experienced the trauma that he's experienced, you know, as a child.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 3: Now, as an adult, he is constantly being knocked down by individuals in organizations, not allowing him to seek whatever kind of justice that he can he mentions financial at this point because nobody will allow him to have his day in court.
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 3: Okay, and then you know, you can't be mad at that, like you shouldn't be mad at that, somebody who is mad at somebody who has, you know, experienced some kind of trauma, particularly childhood molestation and rape and sodomy you can also know somewhere Like you should not be upset that someone who has experienced that, who is not going to receive any kind of justice any other way, is asking to say, hey, well, fine, if I can't get justice this way, then I want you to pay me for the trauma.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: And Mike.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: He covers in the documentary.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: He's a hard worker and he's made a great laugh for himself.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: It's not about the actual check.
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: It's about the representation or what it actually means, the acknowledgement of that.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 3: something wrong happened and we're trying to make it right.
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 3: Even if you don't really make it right like here's, at least our attempt to make it right where he has not had any of that whatsoever.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, you kind of backtracked a little bit, but you had mentioned watching him and thinking, wow, this is teaching me to wonder, when people do have aggression to certain things, like what has this person been through because you've went all your life so far?
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: Well, that would be having that mentality and it's like my attack for that to be brought to the forefront of my mind.
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I can see people acting a certain way because I became very angry at points and you have even noticed that work.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I can be a little snippy and I can be easily agitated sometimes.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: Sometimes there are certain words that people will say that will get me and immediately I will snap, I'll reel it in.
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: I've taught myself how to do that.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: But one of the questions I asked myself, especially now we're allowed to work when I'm on the phone with someone or dealing with an upset employee or whatever the case may be, I'm like, okay, who has hurt you?
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 3: Is what.
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: I think in my head, and of course I cannot ask them that, nor would I, but I know that somewhere there is some.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: It's heartbreaking.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 3: It really truly is, but I'm glad that we got to talk to.
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: Mr Mike, I'm so glad.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 3: Mr Mike Forman.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 3: He is a fantastic human being and, going back to what you said, outside of him talking about the Catholic Church, he has been an absolute joy to talk to.
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 3: He is such a fun guy.
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that we made him a mid-sleeper for talking to us today 100%, and if you all have not watched this documentary, I would definitely recommend it and, of course, if you haven't listened to episode one, definitely listen to episode one If you you know you can watch the documentary and listen to the episode however you want to do it.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: But, as you all heard, Mike would love to come back, and so if you have questions, comments, any of that stuff, please send it to us, because I think this is a very cool conversation to have going in the fact that Mike says that you know this is even part of his therapy.
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: If this is something that we in the universe can give him after what he's been through, then I want to give that to him.
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 3: And also just another little shot out to his website, if you guys feel so inclined, wwwiamnotcatholiccom, where he goes into great detail about his story.
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 3: We are also uploaded to that website.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 3: You will find the letter that he mentioned in the conversation that we have.
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 3: It is there for you to read.
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 3: You can, you know, make it big enough that you can read it word for word.
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 3: It's not one of those things where it's just a blurry copy.
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 3: When he's talking about this letter, he has made sure that anybody and everybody can see what that is he's got the receipts.
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: He does have the receipts.
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: Everything that he has said he has posted on his website.
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: He's got the damn receipts and I hope that he gets some kind of peace and some kind of justice.
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: I have really enjoyed this.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: Keanna, Thank you for emailing him.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: You did so good on your homework assignment, so email Reba and.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 3: You're here.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 3: Who are you?
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 3: What are you doing?
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: If Reba is asking who I am, then A we've almost done our job right.
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: The next part will be when she says oh, that's just my friend David.
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: So, guys, thank you all so much.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: Please like, share, comment, download, check out our website, do all the things and, if you don't mind, those written reviews on Apple Podcasts really, really, really help.
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: Our numbers are growing and I want them to keep growing.
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: So thank you, guys so much.
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: Thank you, keanna.
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 3: Yes, thank you, david, for having me.
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 3: I appreciate you.
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: All right, we will see each other soon.
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 2: Bye, bye.