Latest / Foul Territory / Go-time for the Blue Jays, All-but-cooked Tigers on life support

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Go-time for the Blue Jays, All-but-cooked Tigers on life support · Foul Territory

0:00
Speaker 1: It's Miller time.
0:00
Speaker 2: We have some light takes presented by Miller light. Let's
0:03
Speaker 2: talk about the playoff race reality check for the blue Jays.
0:06
Speaker 2: As we head into the final month of the season here,
0:09
Speaker 2: Mitch Bannon from the athletic covers the team. And of
0:11
Speaker 2: course you can hear him on bluebird territory. So much
0:13
Speaker 2: blue talk. His microphone is even blue, Mitch. Good to
0:16
Speaker 2: see you, man.
0:17
Speaker 1: What do we got here?
0:18
Speaker 2: So a tough loss for them. And yeah, it gets
0:20
Speaker 2: to the point right now where you're going game to
0:22
Speaker 2: game to try and weigh the playoff chances for the
0:25
Speaker 2: blue Jays down the stretch. So Gavin Williams shut them down.
0:28
Speaker 2: Paint the picture for us over the next few weeks.
0:30
Speaker 2: What's the pathway?
0:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, so first off, I don't set the color of
0:34
Speaker 3: my microphone. I plug it in and it chooses a new.
0:36
Speaker 4: Color every day.
0:37
Speaker 3: I still haven't mastered it. But today we got blue,
0:40
Speaker 3: so it's a happy coincidence. But the Jays are in
0:43
Speaker 3: like an optimistic spot, but also kind of a tough spot.
0:47
Speaker 3: They can't afford really many series losses. They can't afford
0:50
Speaker 3: a bad week at this point. Their playoff odds, I
0:53
Speaker 3: think most places sit between 15 and 20%. and that's
0:58
Speaker 3: higher than it's been for most of this year, but
1:00
Speaker 3: it also means they got to have the best month
1:02
Speaker 3: of their season. Coming off a 17-11 August where they
1:06
Speaker 3: played pretty good ball, and John Schneider has said it,
1:09
Speaker 3: they basically have to play better than that in September.
1:12
Speaker 3: They're going to need to win 65% of their games
1:15
Speaker 3: to even get to 83 wins. Who knows if that's enough?
1:18
Speaker 3: I think there's a chance if they get to 83,
1:20
Speaker 3: it could come down to tiebreakers. 84, maybe you're really
1:23
Speaker 3: talking about a playoff team here, but Winning 106 win
1:27
Speaker 3: pace for an entire month is pretty difficult, especially for
1:30
Speaker 3: a team that hasn't done that for any two-week stretch
1:33
Speaker 3: yet this year.
1:35
Speaker 5: Optimistic versus realistic. Is the optimistic part because, well, we
1:40
Speaker 5: were just in the World Series, so we have to
1:42
Speaker 5: figure it out somewhere? Or is the realistic part, Vladimir
1:46
Speaker 5: Guerrero doesn't hit, this team will continue to stay below 500?
1:52
Speaker 3: I think it's kind of both. I think the optimistic
1:54
Speaker 3: part is that this team, after the trade deadline, has
1:58
Speaker 3: looked like a baseball team that could win games. The
2:00
Speaker 3: pitching staff has been incredible. The back end of the
2:02
Speaker 3: bullpen has been lights out with Louis Varlin, Tyler Rogers.
2:06
Speaker 3: Spencer Miles threw 100 miles an hour yesterday and he
2:08
Speaker 3: was in high A like a year ago this time
2:11
Speaker 3: preparing for the fall league. So they have the ingredients there.
2:14
Speaker 3: The offense is still where this team is really going
2:17
Speaker 3: to struggle and struggled yesterday against a really good starter
2:20
Speaker 3: in Gavin Williams. Yeah, it would be easy if Vladimir
2:23
Speaker 3: Guerrero Jr. gets going to see this team make it
2:25
Speaker 3: to the playoffs. They've won games this year without him
2:28
Speaker 3: getting going. I think there is a path to October
2:31
Speaker 3: for this team. With Vladdy having a 690 OPS, it
2:35
Speaker 3: requires George Springer staying hot. It requires Alejandro Kirk staying hot.
2:39
Speaker 3: Brett Bateman's Babbitt probably has to stay over 400. I
2:43
Speaker 3: don't think Vladdy is the be-all and end-all, but if
2:47
Speaker 3: he some way, somehow gets going in the next 25 games,
2:51
Speaker 3: it gets a whole lot easier for this team.
2:55
Speaker 4: Hey, Mitch, is it fair to put all this on Vladdy?
2:59
Speaker 4: I mean, Toronto fans were booing him. Is that fair
3:01
Speaker 4: to put this whole season on Vladdy? I know he's
3:04
Speaker 4: a superstar. I know he signed a $ 500 million contract.
3:07
Speaker 4: But is that fair to one guy who's done so
3:09
Speaker 4: much for this organization?
3:12
Speaker 3: Like, I think Vladdy would put this season on him.
3:14
Speaker 3: I think that's part of why he's struggling is he's
3:17
Speaker 3: feeling this entire season on him. Now, there's 26 guys
3:20
Speaker 3: on the roster. They're winning baseball games, at least occasionally,
3:23
Speaker 3: without Vladdy playing like a superstar. But especially at this
3:27
Speaker 3: point when they're like two and a half games back
3:29
Speaker 3: and Springer's kind of turned his season around, Kirk has
3:31
Speaker 3: come back from injury and be really good. The pitching
3:34
Speaker 3: is clearly capable of winning playoff games. It just makes
3:37
Speaker 3: you wonder, man, what if Vladdy was even a league
3:40
Speaker 3: average hitter? What if he was 20% better than league average?
3:45
Speaker 3: I think after the playoffs last year and the World
3:47
Speaker 3: Baseball Classic in spring, People were thinking 60, 70 home
3:51
Speaker 3: runs for Vlad. We all knew he was never going
3:53
Speaker 3: to do that, but no one, like this is lower
3:56
Speaker 3: than the floor he'd previously established. No one even contemplated
4:00
Speaker 3: a season this bad, which points a lot of fingers
4:03
Speaker 3: at him. Now, I'm not saying he's not trying to
4:05
Speaker 3: get better. I'm not saying that he doesn't want to
4:07
Speaker 3: get better, but he has been a guy who's penciled
4:10
Speaker 3: in for five wins, penciled in as one of the
4:12
Speaker 3: best hitters in baseball, and he hasn't been either of
4:14
Speaker 3: those things this year.
4:16
Speaker 5: How's the remaining schedule for them? Because that's what we
4:19
Speaker 5: look at right now. Like, what does this path actually
4:22
Speaker 5: look like for them?
4:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, they have the second easiest remaining schedule in baseball
4:28
Speaker 3: by opposition win percentage. The Mariners is the only one easier.
4:31
Speaker 3: And the Jays just swept the Mariners and got the
4:34
Speaker 3: tiebreaker over them. So looking at the schedule, it's in
4:37
Speaker 3: kind of an easy spot. The issue is if you're
4:39
Speaker 3: talking about win percentage, the Jays are like four or
4:42
Speaker 3: five games under 500. So other teams are looking at
4:44
Speaker 3: them being like, wow, that's a pretty beatable team too.
4:46
Speaker 3: So it's not like they're playing the worst teams in
4:49
Speaker 3: the league. They're just playing teams that are kind of
4:51
Speaker 3: close to them, which means as I know some fans
4:54
Speaker 3: don't love this, but it is right in front of
4:56
Speaker 3: the Jays. They play a lot of the teams in Baltimore, Cleveland,
4:59
Speaker 3: the next two days that are in and around them.
5:02
Speaker 3: If you have a great month, you're beating up on
5:03
Speaker 3: those teams. You're going to end up in the playoffs.
5:06
Speaker 3: It also means you lose two series. you find yourself
5:09
Speaker 3: six games back really, really quick.
5:12
Speaker 4: Mitch, what about the pitching? Do they have enough pitching?
5:14
Speaker 4: Louis Vaughn's been great. Dylan Cease has got a great
5:17
Speaker 4: shot to win the AL Cy Young if he continues
5:19
Speaker 4: on the trajectory that he's been on. Is there pitching enough?
5:23
Speaker 4: Is there enough pitching besides him, Scherzer, whoever that is
5:27
Speaker 4: with the Savage out and Bieber out and some of
5:29
Speaker 4: these guys out, is there enough pitching for them to
5:32
Speaker 4: get this done?
5:34
Speaker 3: I think that is one of the questions like on
5:36
Speaker 3: top of the offense. It's do they have a fourth
5:39
Speaker 3: and fifth starter that are going to give them a
5:40
Speaker 3: shot to win? Because we know this team is probably
5:44
Speaker 3: not going to win games 10 to 8. So they
5:46
Speaker 3: need pretty consistent pitching from the entire rotation. You're right.
5:50
Speaker 3: Cease locked like you. You have no worries about him. Soriano,
5:54
Speaker 3: he hasn't been like amazing since he came over, but
5:56
Speaker 3: he's certainly like a legit number two, number three starter
5:59
Speaker 3: on this team. It's just can Spencer Arrighetti give the meanings?
6:03
Speaker 3: Do they try some more bullpen games, which they've been really,
6:05
Speaker 3: really good at this year and going back to last
6:07
Speaker 3: playoffs down the stretch? Treja Savage is throwing on flat
6:10
Speaker 3: ground about three weeks after his meniscus surgery. Sounds like
6:14
Speaker 3: he's going to throw a bullpen soon. I wonder if
6:16
Speaker 3: they bring them back pretty quick, if this team's in
6:19
Speaker 3: the race, even if it's as a two or three
6:21
Speaker 3: inning guy in the middle of a bullpen game, because
6:24
Speaker 3: every single inning and every single win is going to
6:26
Speaker 3: be pretty huge for this team. So I think the
6:29
Speaker 3: back end of the rotation will be interesting. All of
6:31
Speaker 3: the guys have something in Eric Getty, Scherzer, to keep
6:35
Speaker 3: you pretty optimistic, but they've also had some pretty low lows,
6:38
Speaker 3: both of them this year.
6:40
Speaker 5: We talked about the rotation earlier. being okay, kind of solid,
6:44
Speaker 5: the back end of the bullpen being ridiculous. Do they
6:48
Speaker 5: have enough depth to get through a September that's essentially
6:51
Speaker 5: going to be playoff September, where it's going to be,
6:55
Speaker 5: all right, we've got to go right to this guy.
6:58
Speaker 5: We've used him three of the last four days. Do
7:00
Speaker 5: they have enough depth to be able to withstand how
7:03
Speaker 5: John Schneider is going to have to deploy this bullpen
7:06
Speaker 5: because of all the things you said about the rotation
7:08
Speaker 5: of guys that maybe can't go too deep?
7:12
Speaker 3: That's one of the things like I'm really interested to
7:14
Speaker 3: watch in the next couple of weeks because like, this
7:16
Speaker 3: team has basically been playing do or die baseball for
7:19
Speaker 3: three weeks already. And so they've been using guys three
7:22
Speaker 3: days in a row. They've been, they've been trotting Louie
7:24
Speaker 3: Varland out there a lot. And the offense doesn't give
7:26
Speaker 3: them a whole lot of opportunities to sit their closer
7:29
Speaker 3: down and not use them in games. So they're pitching
7:31
Speaker 3: pretty often. Can they do that for seven weeks? Can
7:34
Speaker 3: they do that into the first week of October? Like
7:37
Speaker 3: you can play do or die baseball for a couple
7:39
Speaker 3: of weeks for sure. Every team does it in October.
7:41
Speaker 3: The Jays have basically been doing it since the beginning
7:43
Speaker 3: of August. So, I'm like Mason fluid. He's on pace
7:46
Speaker 3: for like 80 something appearances as the main lefty out
7:49
Speaker 3: of the bullpen. Louie pitched every single game in the
7:52
Speaker 3: playoffs last year. And it's now one of the highest, uh,
7:55
Speaker 3: used relievers in, in the regular season this year, Tyler Rogers,
7:59
Speaker 3: not worried about him. I think that the chase are
8:01
Speaker 3: just going to trot him out until, until he says, okay,
8:04
Speaker 3: I'm going to retire. Cause that guy can throw 83
8:06
Speaker 3: for basically every single day. It seems like Spencer miles,
8:10
Speaker 3: like a rule five pick who had 14 and two
8:12
Speaker 3: thirds innings coming into the season, uh, you would think
8:14
Speaker 3: he was hitting some kind of innings gap, and then
8:17
Speaker 3: he goes out and pops 100 yesterday. So I think
8:20
Speaker 3: they're at the point where they're going to find out.
8:22
Speaker 3: I think a couple weeks ago, John Schneider said, sustainable
8:26
Speaker 3: isn't really a factor in what we're doing here. We
8:28
Speaker 3: can't really worry about sustainability. We've got to worry about
8:31
Speaker 3: winning today's game because sustainability doesn't really matter if you
8:34
Speaker 3: don't make the playoffs.
8:35
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Speaker 5: Could they have done anything in the offseason to prevent
9:39
Speaker 5: all of the things that we've already talked about on
9:42
Speaker 5: today's show?
9:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I've been thinking about that all season,
9:47
Speaker 3: and this has been one of the toughest teams to
9:50
Speaker 3: cover because you see why it went wrong. You see
9:54
Speaker 3: the many injuries. You see the underperformance from Vladdy, first
9:58
Speaker 3: half Springer, Kirk getting hurt. like it's you can explain
10:01
Speaker 3: it away but like every team deals with some variation
10:05
Speaker 3: of that they deal with underperformance they deal with injuries
10:07
Speaker 3: So what could the Jays have actually controlled that made
10:10
Speaker 3: this season better? I think you're not necessarily talking about
10:14
Speaker 3: offseason fixes. You're talking a little more big picture. Maybe
10:17
Speaker 3: they could have got some younger arms to the upper
10:20
Speaker 3: minors to have a little bit better pitching depth beyond
10:24
Speaker 3: the major league signing guys. Maybe they could have built
10:27
Speaker 3: an offense that wasn't so reliant on the the power
10:30
Speaker 3: from Anthony Santander and Addison Barger and maybe had some
10:33
Speaker 3: backup power options. Like we know this team can hit
10:36
Speaker 3: for contact. We know that this team is one of
10:38
Speaker 3: the best in the league at that kind of profile
10:40
Speaker 3: of player, but they need the variance in the lineup.
10:42
Speaker 3: They needed Barger clearly. They needed Santander or the very
10:46
Speaker 3: least they needed George and Vladdy going. They didn't really
10:48
Speaker 3: get any of that this year. And so those contact
10:51
Speaker 3: guys aren't enough to carry an offense. So I don't
10:54
Speaker 3: know necessarily if these things could have been fixed over
10:56
Speaker 3: the winter. Maybe there could have been some tweaks there.
10:59
Speaker 3: That is where I would go for how could this
11:01
Speaker 3: have been prevented even beyond the injuries and the underperformance.
11:06
Speaker 4: Mitch, if they don't make the postseason, after how close
11:09
Speaker 4: they were to winning this World Series, is this the
11:11
Speaker 4: most disappointing season in Blue Jays history? I feel like
11:15
Speaker 4: they're still set up for next year and years to
11:17
Speaker 4: come because of some of the moves they made at
11:19
Speaker 4: the trade deadline, but I'm talking 2026. Will this be
11:22
Speaker 4: one of the most disappointing seasons of all time for
11:25
Speaker 4: Blue Jays fans?
11:27
Speaker 3: One of the most for sure. I think sneakily at
11:30
Speaker 3: least in the last 20 years 2013 was like a
11:33
Speaker 3: devastating season for the jays it's a team that hadn't
11:35
Speaker 3: made the playoffs in decades to that point they go
11:37
Speaker 3: out they do that josh johnson trade the jose reyes
11:40
Speaker 3: trade everyone was was really pumped for the jays and
11:43
Speaker 3: then that team's just still sucked so that one might
11:46
Speaker 3: be more disappointing than this but I was thinking yesterday
11:49
Speaker 3: in Cleveland, looking around, there's 18,000 people there. That team's
11:52
Speaker 3: in a playoff spot. And the crowd was decent, but
11:55
Speaker 3: it's still 18,000 people. You go to Rogers Center, the
11:58
Speaker 3: Jays have been six, seven, 10 games under 500 points
12:01
Speaker 3: this year. They're selling out the building every single night.
12:05
Speaker 3: They can be losing 10-0, and Ernie Clement can hit
12:08
Speaker 3: a run-scoring double in the eighth, and the crowd goes wild.
12:10
Speaker 4: Like, this.
12:12
Speaker 3: This is a fan base that so badly wanted this
12:14
Speaker 3: year to be electric. They wanted it to be a
12:17
Speaker 3: repeat of last year, and it just hasn't been. They're
12:20
Speaker 3: still showing up. They're still cheering. The Jays have given
12:22
Speaker 3: them just enough hope into September that people aren't totally
12:25
Speaker 3: out on this team, but it just speaks to how
12:28
Speaker 3: badly the fan base wanted this year, and they got 23,
12:32
Speaker 3: 24 games to give it to them.
12:34
Speaker 5: It didn't go well early in the season for Max Scherzer. Injuries,
12:37
Speaker 5: staying healthy. Has he shown enough that you think possibly
12:42
Speaker 5: he comes back and pitches again next year?
12:45
Speaker 3: I'm never going to predict that Max Scherzer is going
12:48
Speaker 3: to retire. I'm going to let him decide when that
12:52
Speaker 3: is because I remember before the playoffs last year, the
12:56
Speaker 3: Jays had the wildcard off. They got the buy to
12:58
Speaker 3: the DS. Max Scherzer was pitching kind of a rehabby
13:02
Speaker 3: sim game against Jays single A and double A players.
13:06
Speaker 3: Josh Rivera hit a bomb off him. Had to be
13:09
Speaker 3: like 420 feet. DeSan Brown, kind of like a speed
13:12
Speaker 3: contact guy from high A or double A, hit a
13:15
Speaker 3: triple off of him. I'm like, oh my God, there's
13:18
Speaker 3: like 8,000 people in this ballpark watching a sim game
13:20
Speaker 3: and they're watching Max Scherzer's final time on a big
13:22
Speaker 3: league mound. What did he do after that? He was
13:24
Speaker 3: like one of the stories of the postseason. He yelled
13:27
Speaker 3: Schneider off the mound in Seattle. He started game seven
13:29
Speaker 3: of the freaking World Series. And so I'm just like,
13:32
Speaker 3: I'm at the point where Max Scherzer has shown me
13:34
Speaker 3: enough to never write him off. And now in the
13:36
Speaker 3: last couple of days, he's shown me enough that he
13:38
Speaker 3: can still perform at an elite level. So that's going
13:41
Speaker 3: to be Max's call. And I'm never going to be
13:44
Speaker 3: one to tell him he can't do it because he
13:45
Speaker 3: just keeps proving he can.
13:49
Speaker 2: Hey, last one, just an early look back at the
13:51
Speaker 2: trade deadline. How is that working out for them? If
13:54
Speaker 2: they could redo anything there, would they? Or did they
13:57
Speaker 2: kind of master the buy and the sell? If they
13:59
Speaker 2: knew they would be this close. Would they have maybe
14:02
Speaker 2: kept Kevin Gossman and had a little more punch in
14:06
Speaker 2: the rotation?
14:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's one of the interesting things because Brett Bateman,
14:12
Speaker 3: the main piece they got back, or kind of one
14:14
Speaker 3: of the two pieces alongside Ty South the scene, the
14:17
Speaker 3: minor leaguer they got back from Gossman, Bateman's been like
14:20
Speaker 3: one of the reasons the Jays have been good the
14:22
Speaker 3: last couple weeks. They could really use a guy like
14:25
Speaker 3: Kevin Gossman in the rotation right now, but I'm not
14:27
Speaker 3: sure this team has kind of like the energy around it,
14:29
Speaker 3: the juice, That guy at the top of the lineup,
14:32
Speaker 3: I don't know if they're even back in this race.
14:34
Speaker 3: So I think that's a move that you feel really
14:36
Speaker 3: good about. If you're the Jays, it's kind of one
14:37
Speaker 3: you had to make to try to solve the future
14:40
Speaker 3: center field hole and clearly give this team a little
14:42
Speaker 3: bit of life. I think if they had to go back,
14:45
Speaker 3: knowing what they know now, maybe they go out and
14:48
Speaker 3: get one more pitcher. They were a team that even
14:51
Speaker 3: after the deadline and after selling, they had seven starters
14:53
Speaker 3: with bringing in Tyone, Arrigetti, like They still had too
14:56
Speaker 3: much pitching back then, then immediately.
14:58
Speaker 1: Lost it all.
14:59
Speaker 3: So I think the Jays feel pretty good about the deadline.
15:02
Speaker 3: And I think some of the kind of fringe AAA
15:05
Speaker 3: big league moves they brought in, those players are a
15:07
Speaker 3: reason they're actually doing it down the stretch.
15:12
Speaker 2: That's how you do it. A lot of teams want to.
15:14
Speaker 2: That's like the new sexy thing in front offices. Oh,
15:17
Speaker 2: let's buy and sell. We're buyers and sellers. Very few
15:21
Speaker 2: pull it off.
15:22
Speaker 3: Everyone says they want to do it.
15:24
Speaker 4: Let's show how smart we are like no one actually does.
15:27
Speaker 1: Yeah so they wanted to and then they just.
15:29
Speaker 4: Sold yeah let's show how smart we are everybody watch
15:32
Speaker 4: this look.
15:34
Speaker 2: We can place this here take this away save that
15:37
Speaker 2: for 2027 but yeah props to the blue jays nice
15:40
Speaker 2: job there mitch good stuff man good to catch up
15:42
Speaker 2: with you and can't wait to see the color of
15:44
Speaker 2: the microphone next time we chat.
15:46
Speaker 3: Sounds good thanks guys appreciate you that's.
15:48
Speaker 2: Mitch man and check out his articles in the athletic
15:50
Speaker 2: and then Of course, this segment also is presented.
15:55
Speaker 1: By Miller Lite.
15:56
Speaker 2: It was your light takes on the Toronto Blue Jays.
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17:29
Speaker 2: So there's your Tigers hype video as we talk to
17:31
Speaker 2: Cody Stavenhagen, who covers the team for the athletic and
17:34
Speaker 2: for Tiger territory.
17:35
Speaker 1: But quickly, I would like to show.
17:38
Speaker 2: the current state of the 2026 season for the Detroit Tigers.
17:42
Speaker 2: We came up with a nice little piece of artwork
17:45
Speaker 2: for Cody to describe what happened in 2026 to lead
17:50
Speaker 2: to where we are now. So we'll show everyone a
17:53
Speaker 2: gravesite over at Comerica Park that paints the picture. Yes, Cody,
17:57
Speaker 2: we are doing our annual bury the team segments. And
18:01
Speaker 2: this is one of the first that we'll do. Of course,
18:03
Speaker 2: there's been teams that are out of it for a while,
18:05
Speaker 2: but There was a little point in time, even post-trade deadline,
18:08
Speaker 2: where it looked like the Tigers were in the thick
18:09
Speaker 2: of things. And, oh, that sexy run differential was just
18:12
Speaker 2: staring everyone in the face. But it died, and we
18:15
Speaker 2: are burying the 2026 Tigers.
18:17
Speaker 1: So how did it happen?
18:22
Speaker 6: I was thinking about this, and I feel like every
18:24
Speaker 6: time I've been alone with you guys this season, it's
18:26
Speaker 6: either been the Tigers are terrible or, oh, look, here
18:28
Speaker 6: they come.
18:29
Speaker 1: And now we're back.
18:30
Speaker 6: To the Tigers are terrible. Their playoff odds are down.
18:33
Speaker 6: So I think 0.3%. Given the way this year has gone,
18:36
Speaker 6: I don't know if I'm going to, like, they probably
18:38
Speaker 6: will go on an eight-game winning streak or something just
18:41
Speaker 6: because nothing's made sense. But obviously, what's happened lately, they've
18:45
Speaker 6: lost 14 of 17. They are absolutely on life support
18:49
Speaker 6: right now. And you look at the roster. Throughout the summer, A.J.
18:53
Speaker 6: Hinch had kind of said, hey, we're a good team
18:55
Speaker 6: with a bad record. And I didn't really think he
18:58
Speaker 6: was wrong. They're run differential players. voted in their favor.
19:02
Speaker 6: It seemed at times like they were just a good
19:04
Speaker 6: week away from really being able to make a run.
19:07
Speaker 6: But post-trade deadline, they traded Mizen Skubal. Riley Green gets
19:11
Speaker 6: hurt in August. And you look at this roster on
19:14
Speaker 6: paper now, they're playing seven or eight rookies. It seems
19:19
Speaker 6: to me like the front office has made the decision
19:21
Speaker 6: to kind of move on and start playing for 2027.
19:23
Speaker 6: So You hope some positives can come in September, but
19:28
Speaker 6: it's been really rough lately, and it's actually not entirely
19:31
Speaker 6: surprising when you look at, you know, they're playing Ben
19:33
Speaker 6: Maljiri and Brett Callahan, and now John Peck is up,
19:36
Speaker 6: and they're going to play him at shortstop more and
19:38
Speaker 6: potentially play Gleyber Torres less and move Kevin McGonigal to third.
19:44
Speaker 1: How has this happened?
19:45
Speaker 6: Man, I don't know. The blame is pretty widespread. It's
19:48
Speaker 6: all around the bullpen. has been bad all year. The
19:51
Speaker 6: starting pitching has actually been pretty good, but Frambois Valdez
19:54
Speaker 6: has been a disappointment. The offense, they've had some really
19:57
Speaker 6: hot streaks, but overall it's a worse offense than it
20:00
Speaker 6: was last year. So you can point the finger in
20:03
Speaker 6: a wide number of directions.
20:06
Speaker 4: Man, Cody. Oh, man. I've been taking a beating by
20:11
Speaker 4: Tiger fans over the last couple weeks since the trade
20:13
Speaker 4: deadline where I was not happy about them trading Scooble
20:16
Speaker 4: and Mize. They were told me that they were a
20:19
Speaker 4: better team without Scooble because Scooble was a crybaby. All
20:23
Speaker 4: Scooble cared about was himself. All Scooble did was worry
20:26
Speaker 4: about his contract. Mize is always hurt. Mize stinks. He
20:29
Speaker 4: can't pitch in the playoffs. Yada, yada, yada. They're a
20:32
Speaker 4: better team now because they got, what's his name, Zaire White, right?
20:35
Speaker 4: Isn't that his name? Zaire Hope. Zaire Hope, sorry. Excuse me.
20:40
Speaker 4: got him in the big trade, right? So now they're
20:42
Speaker 4: a better team. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, Tiger fans. Sorry.
20:47
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, Cody. But they weren't good. They weren't good.
20:51
Speaker 4: Everything that could have gone wrong went wrong for the
20:53
Speaker 4: Tigers this year. And then they trade away two of
20:55
Speaker 4: their best players. Sorry. And now they're just not a
20:59
Speaker 4: good team. I don't know why they weren't a good
21:02
Speaker 4: team because much like the Mariners, they were so close
21:05
Speaker 4: to getting past the Mariners, right, and having a chance
21:08
Speaker 4: in the ALCS. I don't know where to put my
21:11
Speaker 4: finger on it because I picked the Tigers to win
21:13
Speaker 4: the division. But to see that tombstone after the way
21:16
Speaker 4: Tigers fans attacked me, not going to lie, it kind
21:19
Speaker 4: of makes my day.
21:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, it all makes sense. Look, how do you put
21:26
Speaker 1: your finger on it? I don't know.
21:27
Speaker 6: Injuries are part of it. Had terrible injury luck all year.
21:31
Speaker 1: That's not all of it. That's one thing I've been saying.
21:34
Speaker 1: did we overrate the Tigers at the start of the year?
21:37
Speaker 6: Did one signing from Amber Valdez create too much hype?
21:42
Speaker 6: That coincided with Justin Verlander, who obviously has only pitched
21:46
Speaker 6: one game.
21:46
Speaker 1: When they signed him, I thought it was cool.
21:48
Speaker 6: I didn't necessarily think it made them better because they
21:50
Speaker 6: lost Reese Olsen to an injury. So injuries have killed them,
21:55
Speaker 6: but what I never really saw coming was the floor
21:58
Speaker 6: falling out from under this team the way it has.
22:02
Speaker 1: I thought in a weak division.
22:04
Speaker 6: with the talent they have, they should be okay, that
22:06
Speaker 6: they would be competitive kind of no matter what.
22:10
Speaker 1: And it just hasn't gone that way.
22:11
Speaker 6: There have been too many mistakes on a number of levels,
22:14
Speaker 6: from the front office not fortifying this bullpen to the
22:18
Speaker 6: players on the field not performing.
22:21
Speaker 1: Even A.J.
22:22
Speaker 6: Hinch, just like the in-game decisions haven't worked out this year.
22:25
Speaker 6: Is that his fault or the player's fault?
22:28
Speaker 1: I don't know.
22:28
Speaker 6: That's one of the weird philosophical things about baseball, but
22:31
Speaker 6: you're right. It's been Murphy's Law in action. So many
22:34
Speaker 6: things have gone wrong, and it's odd to think they
22:36
Speaker 6: played at a 600 clip throughout June and July. They
22:39
Speaker 6: did what it took to save their season, to stay relevant,
22:43
Speaker 6: and yet in August it went south pretty fast, and
22:47
Speaker 6: now you're staring at a losing season unless you really
22:49
Speaker 6: kick it into gear soon.
22:51
Speaker 5: Almost every one of the things that you brought up,
22:54
Speaker 5: lineup construction, the bullpen construction, seems to point towards the
23:00
Speaker 5: front office, even to the point of how guys are
23:03
Speaker 5: being deployed.
23:04
Speaker 4: I know A.J.
23:04
Speaker 5: Hinch enjoys a good platoon, but A.J. Hinch manages to
23:10
Speaker 5: win the game. I played for him, and I've seen it.
23:14
Speaker 5: Is there a world where this front office has a
23:17
Speaker 5: little too much of their potion or of their science
23:24
Speaker 5: in the potion because they said at the beginning of
23:27
Speaker 5: the year, well, this lineup's just going to be better
23:29
Speaker 5: because they're a year older. Well, that's just the most
23:32
Speaker 5: idiotic thing that you could say. You have to make
23:35
Speaker 5: the lineup better than it was last year when it
23:37
Speaker 5: didn't score any runs after Kerry Carpenter's home run in
23:41
Speaker 5: the last game of the season.
23:44
Speaker 6: Yeah, I certainly see the point you're making. If you
23:47
Speaker 6: want to do the hindsight thing, it is hard to see,
23:50
Speaker 6: other than maybe Alex Bregman, what the move is this
23:53
Speaker 6: winter in terms of signing someone that would have really
23:55
Speaker 6: made sense and made them better.
23:57
Speaker 1: Could they have found some creative trade? I don't know. Maybe.
24:00
Speaker 6: I think it's fair to say more everyday players would
24:03
Speaker 6: have been helpful. There wasn't necessarily that magic bullet that's like, oh,
24:07
Speaker 6: they should have done this. But you look at where
24:10
Speaker 6: they are now. They clearly banked so heavily on development.
24:14
Speaker 6: They thought guys were going to make progress. They thought
24:18
Speaker 6: Matt Veerling was going to have a better season. Well,
24:20
Speaker 6: he didn't, and then he was injured. They thought Colt
24:23
Speaker 6: Keefe maybe would take a big leap forward. He's taken
24:25
Speaker 6: maybe a small inch forward a little bit. And that's
24:29
Speaker 6: one of the interesting things looking ahead. I think this
24:32
Speaker 6: front office still feels great about where they're at. I
24:34
Speaker 6: think they love Kevin McGonigal and Max Clark, and they
24:37
Speaker 6: have Dingler, and they have more guys coming. But it's
24:39
Speaker 6: pretty easy in this game. I'm sure you guys have
24:41
Speaker 6: seen it. It's a kind of get high on your
24:43
Speaker 6: own supply. Like every executive believes in their own players
24:46
Speaker 6: and their own prospects. The Tigers are still set up
24:48
Speaker 6: to be competitive for years to come, but they're going
24:50
Speaker 6: to have to find a better way to supplement the core.
24:53
Speaker 6: Their player development seems to be good. They're going to
24:56
Speaker 6: find ways to supplement it through free agency, through trade,
24:59
Speaker 6: through things other than simply development, because we've already seen
25:02
Speaker 6: that can only get you so far.
25:04
Speaker 4: OK, let me let me go positive here for a minute.
25:06
Speaker 4: McGonigal is probably the rookie of the year in the
25:08
Speaker 4: American League, right? He puts together bats. His defense is solid.
25:11
Speaker 4: Dylan Dingler has turned himself into one of the best
25:13
Speaker 4: catchers in baseball, if not the best catcher in baseball.
25:17
Speaker 4: So they found some pieces that can help them down
25:20
Speaker 4: the road. Is that kind of what you're saying is
25:22
Speaker 4: go out and you have to get a free agent here,
25:25
Speaker 4: get a free agent there to kind of supplement the
25:28
Speaker 4: holes in development? Riley Green's good, right? What happens with Torkelson?
25:31
Speaker 4: You know, Keith, does he take that? There's a bunch
25:34
Speaker 4: of questions, but they do have some positives. So you're
25:37
Speaker 4: saying you think they need to go out, whether it's
25:39
Speaker 4: a pitcher, whether it's a, they definitely need to go
25:41
Speaker 4: out and get some relievers, right? And then maybe a
25:44
Speaker 4: bat or two. I mean, I think they can do that.
25:46
Speaker 4: They're the Tigers. They have some financial might.
25:49
Speaker 1: Sure.
25:50
Speaker 6: I mean, they entered this year ninth in payroll, and
25:52
Speaker 6: now Scooble's gone. Jack Flaherty's going to come off the books.
25:55
Speaker 6: Gleyber Torres is going to come off the books. Money's
25:57
Speaker 6: not an object or an issue. What might be an
26:00
Speaker 6: obstacle is next year's free agent class is terrible. I'm
26:03
Speaker 6: not sure there are a lot of bats that you're
26:06
Speaker 6: running towards saying, oh, this is the guy that's going
26:09
Speaker 6: to help them. The rotation should be pretty strong. They're
26:11
Speaker 6: going to have to add another dude or two, as
26:13
Speaker 6: almost every team does. The bullpen, obviously, I think is
26:16
Speaker 6: the big one. They're going to have to have to improve.
26:20
Speaker 6: They're going to have to get their pitching picks right.
26:22
Speaker 6: You look at the guys they brought in the past
26:24
Speaker 6: two plus years, whether it's at the last trade deadline,
26:28
Speaker 6: Chris Paddock and Charlie Morton, whether it's been Alex Cobb, Verlander,
26:32
Speaker 6: Kenley Jansen, Kyle Finnegan, John Brebbia, Tommy Canely, like they
26:37
Speaker 6: have missed on a lot of pitchers. That can't happen again.
26:41
Speaker 6: That is definitely kind of at a I don't know
26:44
Speaker 6: about crisis point, but it's kind of becoming a red alarm.
26:47
Speaker 6: They got to get the pitching right next year, and
26:50
Speaker 6: they have to have better sheer stuff in the bullpen,
26:52
Speaker 6: quite frankly. More velocity, more swing and miss. These things
26:55
Speaker 6: have been issues for a couple of years now, and
26:58
Speaker 6: they haven't quite been able to solve it. That's probably
27:00
Speaker 6: the number one thing they're going to have to get right. Now,
27:03
Speaker 6: getting a bullpen right is hard. A lot of teams
27:04
Speaker 6: can struggle with it because it's so.
27:06
Speaker 1: Volatile, but.
27:09
Speaker 6: A slightly better bullpen and maybe the whole story of
27:11
Speaker 6: this year would be different.
27:13
Speaker 5: Is that an organizational philosophy that needs to change, that
27:17
Speaker 5: they're kind of targeting guys that, I'm not saying with
27:22
Speaker 5: less stuff, but just different stuff than the rest of
27:24
Speaker 5: the league is targeting?
27:26
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think so, and I think I had said
27:28
Speaker 6: something to that effect last time I was on with
27:30
Speaker 6: you guys. It seems pretty clearly that there's been some
27:33
Speaker 6: sort of shift in what they were targeting, the types
27:35
Speaker 6: of players they were acquiring, maybe to try to find
27:38
Speaker 6: some untapped value and shapes or strike throwing rather than
27:41
Speaker 6: sheer velocity or strikeouts. I think there are some people
27:44
Speaker 6: in the org who would deny that notion. So if
27:48
Speaker 6: you're denying that notion, then okay, go get someone in
27:50
Speaker 6: this bullpen who throws 100. Go get someone who can
27:54
Speaker 6: really have a legit swing and miss slider. You look
27:57
Speaker 6: at what they've done recently through this draft and at
28:01
Speaker 6: the trade deadline, they clearly emphasized pitching on the farm
28:05
Speaker 6: They're trying to build that back up a little bit.
28:07
Speaker 6: Just think a couple years ago, we were like, man,
28:09
Speaker 6: are the Tigers the next pitching factory? Are they the
28:11
Speaker 6: next Guardians? And it's been more like, I don't know,
28:14
Speaker 6: they've done some good things. Troy Melton, you know, they
28:16
Speaker 6: can develop some arms, but it hasn't quite been where.
28:20
Speaker 1: They're just churning out one guy or another.
28:21
Speaker 6: And yeah, to your point, Kratzy, like the sheer stuff,
28:24
Speaker 6: particularly in the bullpen, it's a little odd how it's
28:27
Speaker 6: just not there.
28:29
Speaker 5: Yeah, when I had talked to AJ, when he took
28:31
Speaker 5: that job, he had told me all about the The
28:33
Speaker 5: different guys that they've had, and it was the Casey Mize,
28:36
Speaker 5: the Jackson Jobe, the Tarek Skubal. Before he was actually
28:40
Speaker 5: Tarek Skubal, he was a minor leaguer with arm stuff.
28:44
Speaker 5: With the pitching that they have right now, moving forward,
28:50
Speaker 5: is Troy Mountain going to be that guy? Does he
28:53
Speaker 5: have the stuff to be able to take that next
28:55
Speaker 5: step to be what not Tarek Skubal was, but that
29:00
Speaker 5: number one pitcher for their rotation. You can be a
29:03
Speaker 5: number one without being an actual number one.
29:07
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's one of the more interesting storylines is Melton's development.
29:12
Speaker 1: He's really good.
29:13
Speaker 6: He has five, six pitches that can all profile his plus.
29:16
Speaker 6: His last few outings haven't gone as well. It's interesting
29:20
Speaker 6: to remember this is a guy who wasn't really a
29:22
Speaker 6: pitcher until his senior year of high school. was hurt
29:26
Speaker 6: his freshman year at san diego state lost his sophomore
29:28
Speaker 6: year to covid like in a lot of ways still
29:30
Speaker 6: hasn't pitched all that much and he has a 2-2
29:33
Speaker 6: era in his first full major league season melton's good
29:37
Speaker 6: he's gonna have to get the strikeout numbers up a
29:39
Speaker 6: little bit i think that's why he's he's maybe leveled
29:41
Speaker 6: off in his past few starts he has the stuff
29:44
Speaker 6: to do it um the execution can improve the figuring
29:47
Speaker 6: out you know what is the right mix when you
29:49
Speaker 6: have five or six really good weapons he's still learning
29:53
Speaker 6: he's still growing but he's really good i think this
29:56
Speaker 6: is a guy who can be.
29:58
Speaker 1: A frontline starter for sure. Is he a Cy Young winner?
30:00
Speaker 1: I don't know.
30:00
Speaker 6: There's a lot that has to happen to ascend to
30:03
Speaker 6: that tier. But Melton's already had legit success in the
30:06
Speaker 6: major leagues, and I do think there is even more
30:08
Speaker 6: still in the tank for him to unlock.
30:11
Speaker 1: All right.
30:12
Speaker 2: Well, that eulogy played out the way that I thought
30:16
Speaker 2: it would, right? And I think, at least for me,
30:20
Speaker 2: I mean, that really was their 54% moment, the eulogy of, 2026.
30:26
Speaker 5: Tigers.
30:27
Speaker 2: They did not all get better from 2025. I just
30:31
Speaker 2: I can't get over that quote. I mean, you either
30:34
Speaker 2: believe that and that's a problem or you're just saying
30:38
Speaker 2: that and you just shouldn't lie to fans about it.
30:43
Speaker 6: And again, going forward, that's the thing. Like you have
30:47
Speaker 6: some good prospects. You have some good young players. Are
30:50
Speaker 6: they all going to be exactly who you think they are?
30:52
Speaker 6: Probably not. So what else are you doing to bring
30:56
Speaker 6: more talent and a higher level of talent into the org?
30:59
Speaker 2: Make a phone call to the Orioles and ask them
31:02
Speaker 2: if all of their prospects from their super tank rebuild
31:07
Speaker 2: worked out.
31:09
Speaker 1: That would be the way to get a little quick lesson. Cody,
31:12
Speaker 1: good stuff though, in all seriousness.
31:14
Speaker 2: Thanks for the time and much more on the Tigers
31:17
Speaker 2: and burying the rest of their season there on tiger
31:20
Speaker 2: territory and in the athletic with Cody's articles.
31:22
Speaker 1: Appreciate you, man.
31:24
Speaker 4: All right.
31:25
Speaker 1: Thanks guys.