Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / Gilberto Gil

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Gilberto Gil · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

0:04
Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left Sets podcast. My
0:08
Speaker 1: guest today is Brazilian superstar Gilberto Jill Gibert. Though. Hi,
0:15
Speaker 1: great to have you here, are great to have me here.
0:17
Speaker 1: I am literally in Rio de Janeiro, in the hills. No,
0:21
Speaker 1: we Americans not not that. Everybody listening to this podcast
0:25
Speaker 1: lives in the United States tend to be ignorant of
0:27
Speaker 1: other countries. So it's great to come to Brazil to
0:30
Speaker 1: see the topography. And the other thing is I was
0:34
Speaker 1: asking whether they had daylight savings time in Rio de
0:37
Speaker 1: Janeiro where they turned the clocks forward, and my driver said, oh,
0:42
Speaker 1: of course we have that. It ended in February. I
0:44
Speaker 1: was too stupid to realize everything's reversed. They had summer.
0:49
Speaker 1: Now we're going to falls behind the right. I'm here
0:53
Speaker 1: in our head, here on a beautiful fall day in
0:56
Speaker 1: the hills of Rio de Janeiro, where Gilbert though has
1:00
Speaker 1: an office complex in a studio, and it very much
1:04
Speaker 1: reminds me of a fall day in Los Angeles. Certain moods,
1:08
Speaker 1: certain lights, certain smell and it has me in a mood.
1:11
Speaker 1: And I'm learning so much and we're gonna learn some more.
1:14
Speaker 1: From Joberto so Gilberto. When did you decide you wanted
1:18
Speaker 1: to make music for a living? I was very young. Uh.
1:22
Speaker 1: My mother used to tell me a story about when
1:26
Speaker 1: I was two of age, two years of age, and
1:32
Speaker 1: and she asked me what I was going to be
1:36
Speaker 1: when a growing up, and I responded to the answered
1:43
Speaker 1: a musician. And then she took that in mind, and
1:50
Speaker 1: then she was always watching me. And then when at
1:54
Speaker 1: the age of nine she sent me to a music school. Okay,
1:59
Speaker 1: but you're an age too. What did your father do
2:01
Speaker 1: for a living, and what do you do for work?
2:05
Speaker 1: There was a doctor? What what kind of doctor? He
2:08
Speaker 1: was a physician? Okay, So in America that's a North
2:14
Speaker 1: America because we're in America here too, North America, a
2:18
Speaker 1: doctor is a upper middle class profession and the same
2:22
Speaker 1: thing here is good. There was enough money growing up, etcetera. Yeah,
2:27
Speaker 1: he was. He was an upper middle class, uh person.
2:35
Speaker 1: And by the standards, by Baya Brazilian bayas standards. Then
2:43
Speaker 1: in ninety nine when when when he graduated and and
2:47
Speaker 1: and then he went to the to the countryside in
2:51
Speaker 1: Baia to know to start we start his profession. Don't
2:54
Speaker 1: forget I'm an American So I'm ignorant if I'm in
2:57
Speaker 1: real audition. Earrow, where is Bahia? Bahia? Same Atlantic coast
3:05
Speaker 1: north going north? So if if if you consider the
3:10
Speaker 1: whole Atlantic Brazilian coast going from thousand to to Amazon,
3:17
Speaker 1: right is in the middle, Okay, and how far is
3:20
Speaker 1: it from Rio de Janeiro to thousand and two point
3:26
Speaker 1: five thousand kilometers kilometers? So that's point six and that's
3:30
Speaker 1: like twelve miles. That's far it's and it's Bahia's huge. Yeah,
3:38
Speaker 1: that's what people don't realize. You look at a map,
3:39
Speaker 1: most of South America is Brazil. It's the same size
3:42
Speaker 1: as the continental United States. So it was by here
3:46
Speaker 1: in a big city. It's they initial the founding city
3:52
Speaker 1: of Brazil. You know, when the Portuguese arrived in in
3:58
Speaker 1: fifteen hundred, they they spotted an interesting place to have
4:11
Speaker 1: the boats and everything to you know, the bay right
4:15
Speaker 1: Salvador is a bay like Guadabada here in Rio, it's
4:18
Speaker 1: also a bay. So it's a beautiful bay where the
4:21
Speaker 1: Portuguese arrived and then installed themselves there and they started
4:26
Speaker 1: the city. And then that's the city of Salvador, the
4:29
Speaker 1: capital at a capital of the state of Baia and
4:32
Speaker 1: then the historical uh city you know, was the first one,
4:40
Speaker 1: you know, so it predates rial yeah game before Okay,
4:44
Speaker 1: so you're two years old. Did your parents play a
4:47
Speaker 1: lot of music in the house. No, not at all.
4:49
Speaker 1: You just woke up one days I'm gonna be a musician.
4:52
Speaker 1: It came from the radio, from okay, from from from
4:55
Speaker 1: listening to the radio. The radio was the only thing
4:59
Speaker 1: we have. The funny thing is, for those of us
5:01
Speaker 1: at a certain age, radio is still the thing. I
5:04
Speaker 1: remember living in Connecticut and you get a transistor radio
5:08
Speaker 1: and you put it under your pillow and you listen
5:10
Speaker 1: to the baseball game and then the Beatles hit and
5:13
Speaker 1: you listen to music, music and football here in Brazil
5:16
Speaker 1: exactly in it to sue the little village in in
5:20
Speaker 1: the countryside where my my father went with. Okay, so
5:24
Speaker 1: how many children in your family? To me and the girl?
5:28
Speaker 1: And are you the oldest of the oldest the one
5:30
Speaker 1: year it is your sister still alive, she's she's alive,
5:34
Speaker 1: and the parents gun but your their mothers sister. What
5:38
Speaker 1: is her life like now? She's quiet, you know, at
5:43
Speaker 1: home because she couldn't work anymore, and everything. And but
5:49
Speaker 1: she went to school with me, and then she she
5:52
Speaker 1: did the high school, and then she she did the university.
5:56
Speaker 1: She she graduated. She was a dentist. Really. Yeah, so
6:01
Speaker 1: when your how old? Your mother sent you to music
6:04
Speaker 1: school when I was nine? Okay, Now, usually in America
6:08
Speaker 1: and EA, it's about sending your kids to take piano lessons. Okay.
6:12
Speaker 1: Then in my case was accordion. Okay, but you had
6:15
Speaker 1: to learn how to read music. Yes, so you learn that. Yes,
6:19
Speaker 1: you still know how to read music, not necessarily because
6:23
Speaker 1: I gave up, abandoned to to to have the tuitions,
6:27
Speaker 1: you know, for for playing accordion and everything. It was
6:31
Speaker 1: necessary to have theoretical knowledge about music and everything and everything,
6:37
Speaker 1: and I took it. And then my first four or
6:40
Speaker 1: five years with music was playing learning how to play accordion,
6:46
Speaker 1: and then knowing a little the the theory, no musical theory.
6:54
Speaker 1: Then later when I gave up the accordion to to
6:58
Speaker 1: take the guitar, I then I thought myself, you know, okay,
7:04
Speaker 1: without why the accordion because it was very um how
7:13
Speaker 1: to say, a very remarkable uh instrument In terms of
7:20
Speaker 1: our culture. We lived in a region where the Great,
7:25
Speaker 1: Great great master of music, you know in pop music
7:30
Speaker 1: was a guy named Luis Gonzaga and and his instrument
7:35
Speaker 1: was accordion. So everything we were listening in, you know,
7:40
Speaker 1: in the radio and in the houses and yeah, yeah,
7:44
Speaker 1: he was big. He was the big star. He was
7:47
Speaker 1: the Did you ever go to see him perform? Yeah,
7:52
Speaker 1: And that was an inspiration for me. That was exactly
7:55
Speaker 1: who I I decided to take the accordion. After I
7:59
Speaker 1: went I went to an open air concert that he
8:02
Speaker 1: gave him in Salvador by yea. And then I said
8:06
Speaker 1: when I got home, I said to my to my
8:10
Speaker 1: my people, I want to play with the instrument he's playing.
8:16
Speaker 1: And then my mother said, okay, I'm I'm gonna stay
8:18
Speaker 1: to school. This is if you were of a certain
8:23
Speaker 1: age or a baby boomer and you're in your sixties.
8:26
Speaker 1: A lot of people started picking up the guitar when
8:28
Speaker 1: they saw the Beatles. Okay, so you're playing the accordion.
8:33
Speaker 1: Do you ever have doubts and say, I'm not really,
8:36
Speaker 1: I don't really like this? He little, Yes, I I
8:41
Speaker 1: because especially because of the of the the way the
8:48
Speaker 1: school you know went for me, I mean, with a
8:53
Speaker 1: lot of of of of exercise, and theoretical uh lessons
8:59
Speaker 1: and things and things, and in the repertoire that that
9:02
Speaker 1: was not necessarily you know what I wanted. I had
9:07
Speaker 1: to play many classical pieces and and and you know
9:12
Speaker 1: European classical pieces and and everything and that. Okay, I
9:17
Speaker 1: liked it because I like music, but it was not
9:19
Speaker 1: my not the cup of tea, you know, not not
9:22
Speaker 1: my cup of tea. And then when Jon Hubert too
9:27
Speaker 1: that you of course you know who he is. He
9:30
Speaker 1: started the Bostonenva playing guitar thing. You know, that was
9:34
Speaker 1: a staunching that was absolutely no amazing and and and
9:39
Speaker 1: and what year did Bosonova started in Britain And then
9:42
Speaker 1: I took the guitar myself. When did Bosanova become a
9:46
Speaker 1: big sound in Brazil? Fifty nine sixty okay, so it's
9:51
Speaker 1: like a year too late in the United States. Yeah,
9:53
Speaker 1: did it hit there when they went to the Carnegie Hall,
9:57
Speaker 1: famous legendary moment. Wh it was bossa nova an interestant
10:02
Speaker 1: success in Brazil? You mean now, no, INFT nine, No,
10:08
Speaker 1: that was starting. That was the first record that was released,
10:13
Speaker 1: you know, Jean Hubert to singing by me, Tristez, South
10:18
Speaker 1: Daddy and Joe being Joe don't you Bean's song, and
10:24
Speaker 1: then that became very popular, and then the following no
10:29
Speaker 1: records and things became very big, and so and so
10:32
Speaker 1: and so, and then Bosanova became uh uh uh something
10:40
Speaker 1: you know, big in Brazil and not only here but
10:44
Speaker 1: then the world. So you literally Bossonova hits you to
10:49
Speaker 1: say I'm done with you accordion guitar. That's that was okay,
10:54
Speaker 1: But meanwhile you're continuing to go to school. Yes, yes,
10:59
Speaker 1: because it was project. The family project was that I
11:03
Speaker 1: would become a doctor, right right, like an a nice
11:07
Speaker 1: Jewish boy. First first my father wanted me to be
11:11
Speaker 1: a physician like himself. And then I said no, no, no, no,
11:15
Speaker 1: no no, no, Papa, impossible. And then uh they were
11:22
Speaker 1: starting uh new uh school of Administration Business and Public Administration.
11:33
Speaker 1: And then I said, I go, I go for that.
11:37
Speaker 1: And then I went to the university to do business
11:40
Speaker 1: administration and you got a degree, got a degree for
11:44
Speaker 1: yours later. And then because of that degree, I went
11:48
Speaker 1: to I came to some powow in Real to work
11:54
Speaker 1: as as a trainee for the unilivery International company. You know,
11:59
Speaker 1: okay that as a as a business at that time,
12:03
Speaker 1: do you still believe you're going to be a professional musician.
12:07
Speaker 1: I wanted. I wanted very much. I kept that desire
12:13
Speaker 1: inside inside, and of course I was looking for the
12:16
Speaker 1: opportunities to, you know, doing Okay, at what point in
12:22
Speaker 1: your success did your parents accept that you were a
12:26
Speaker 1: successful musician and be proud of you after the second
12:34
Speaker 1: third year? Because I stayed as a as a as
12:37
Speaker 1: a as a businessman. This is po and for two
12:43
Speaker 1: years and then I started going places, knowing people, meeting
12:50
Speaker 1: musicians and everything, producing my stuff at home and everything.
12:54
Speaker 1: And then I I had I was ready to to start.
13:00
Speaker 1: Right then I I wrote to my father. I phoned it,
13:03
Speaker 1: but I think I wrote him because he he had
13:05
Speaker 1: no telephone at home in in the in the little
13:09
Speaker 1: city where he lived in Baya. Then I wrote him
13:13
Speaker 1: a letter saying, Papa, now I'm going to do my dream.
13:18
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to for my dream. I'm going
13:20
Speaker 1: to be a musician and everything. I know it's hard,
13:24
Speaker 1: but anyway, I'm gonna try. And then he was a
13:28
Speaker 1: little skeptical, but then came one first hit. One first
13:36
Speaker 1: a song I have to ask you, and then she
13:39
Speaker 1: and then both him and my mother accepted. She has
13:44
Speaker 1: accepted already because she was the one that had put
13:47
Speaker 1: the accordion and the guitar in my hands. You know,
13:51
Speaker 1: he was a little more, you know, reticent, but reticent.
13:55
Speaker 1: When you quit your job and you want to be
13:58
Speaker 1: a musician, do you ask your mother for money? Yes?
14:02
Speaker 1: What does he say? He said, you see you see
14:06
Speaker 1: I was telling you it's it's it's risky. You're not
14:12
Speaker 1: you're you're not able to you know, toget a living anything.
14:18
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, Papa, but I'm gonna try. Can you
14:21
Speaker 1: help me? And he said, okay, I'll help you. But
14:26
Speaker 1: he did he put a time limit on it. Did
14:29
Speaker 1: he say, I'll help you for two years then back
14:31
Speaker 1: to you the level? No, no, no, no no, he said,
14:35
Speaker 1: make a good news of this money that I'm sending you.
14:39
Speaker 1: You know, provide your your your needs, you know, provide
14:46
Speaker 1: you you're you're living, get well with your family, and
14:54
Speaker 1: give you your trying go for you try with music.
14:58
Speaker 1: If it doesn't succeed, we we we're good at see
15:06
Speaker 1: you're listening to Gilbert. Though Jill, who was excommunicated from
15:09
Speaker 1: his own country, went to London in the early seventies,
15:12
Speaker 1: was influenced by reggae, came back to Brazil, had a
15:15
Speaker 1: huge hit with a cover of No Woman, No Club.
15:18
Speaker 1: Will be back in a moment. Hey, it's Bob and
15:22
Speaker 1: I host the Bob Left Sets podcast on tune in.
15:25
Speaker 1: Each week I welcome innovators from the worlds of music,
15:27
Speaker 1: tech and media to join me in the tune In studios.
15:30
Speaker 1: From Shirley Manson, lead singer of the band Garbage, to
15:33
Speaker 1: Nathan Hubbard, the former CEO of Ticketmaster and stealth innovator
15:37
Speaker 1: in the ticketing space. We discussed their backgrounds as a
15:40
Speaker 1: means to understand how and why they became successful, leaving
15:44
Speaker 1: an impact on the world as we know it. Check
15:46
Speaker 1: out the Bob Left Sets podcast on tune in and
15:52
Speaker 1: now back to more with the Gilbert though Jill on
15:55
Speaker 1: the Bob Left Sets podcast. So you quit your job
16:00
Speaker 1: at you and the lever before you were successful at music.
16:04
Speaker 1: So how long after you quit didn't start to work?
16:08
Speaker 1: Two to three years between two What was the key
16:11
Speaker 1: to making it work? It was the success of a
16:17
Speaker 1: song in a context that we had then in in
16:23
Speaker 1: a big, big television network, you know, presenting artists, new
16:34
Speaker 1: artists doing new songs. You know and everything, and one
16:37
Speaker 1: of those songs became very You wrote the song. I
16:41
Speaker 1: wrote the song, and I performed the song. You were
16:43
Speaker 1: on the televisions. How did you get on the television show?
16:47
Speaker 1: I was asking too. So you didn't have a manager,
16:50
Speaker 1: You were just doing it yourself. I was. I was
16:52
Speaker 1: when I when I was in in in the union
16:54
Speaker 1: leaver job, and as I told you, I started going
16:58
Speaker 1: places and seeing people for meeting musicians. Some of those musicians,
17:03
Speaker 1: some of those artists were already you know, big so sussful,
17:08
Speaker 1: and one of them, at least Regina, a big, big singer,
17:13
Speaker 1: a female singer, very important. I was sent to her
17:18
Speaker 1: house someday to show her some some songs because she
17:22
Speaker 1: was she was going to record the next songs, you know.
17:25
Speaker 1: And then she said, okay, I will take you to
17:29
Speaker 1: my to my show, to my television show, and so
17:32
Speaker 1: she did. Okay, it worked out that. I have to ask.
17:36
Speaker 1: You got your degree in business administration. Did it help
17:40
Speaker 1: you at all in your music career? I think so,
17:45
Speaker 1: especially in terms of the running the administration ing of
17:52
Speaker 1: my career, because at first, in some Paolo I took
17:56
Speaker 1: somebody as an agent too to take care of my
18:00
Speaker 1: I of myself and of my bookings and and things,
18:04
Speaker 1: you know, and my my my relating to the media
18:08
Speaker 1: and so and so and so. But then with the
18:12
Speaker 1: experience I had, not that necessarily the experience, but with
18:16
Speaker 1: the knowledge you know, that had about business and everything
18:21
Speaker 1: that had acquired at the university, I told myself, can
18:26
Speaker 1: I I think I can go by myself, you know,
18:30
Speaker 1: running my my own thing. And then I did and
18:34
Speaker 1: I started my own small company. And it's been so
18:40
Speaker 1: like that, you know. Okay, so for fifty years, you
18:45
Speaker 1: never had a manager, you know, yeah you're the manager. Wow,
18:51
Speaker 1: But you had did you? In terms of a booking age,
18:55
Speaker 1: of course, I have a have a group. I have it.
18:57
Speaker 1: Of course you're not doing a team. I had my
18:59
Speaker 1: wife for instance, that takes care of the whole you know,
19:03
Speaker 1: office thing and never but but I the last word
19:11
Speaker 1: is my word. And in terms of booking gigs, you
19:16
Speaker 1: also do that in the house, yes, yes, yes, our
19:20
Speaker 1: our our office. It's a it's a compound that that
19:26
Speaker 1: includes the running of the career, the booking of the career,
19:34
Speaker 1: the the the relating with the press and and everything.
19:41
Speaker 1: The studio where we are now here also where I
19:45
Speaker 1: rehearse our record and everything. It's been like that for
19:49
Speaker 1: for a long time because most musicians from that era
19:54
Speaker 1: can tell stories of getting ripped off by management accountants.
19:58
Speaker 1: I guess if you're ripped off, you don't have to
19:59
Speaker 1: plang yourself, not necessarily my case. My case was more
20:03
Speaker 1: of a of a of a natural you know, personal impulse,
20:08
Speaker 1: no need, a personal desire to to to to to
20:13
Speaker 1: to give chance to the studies that I had done
20:18
Speaker 1: at the university. So like that, you go on the
20:22
Speaker 1: television show and you perform your song. What happens after that?
20:27
Speaker 1: After that I started to be you know, popular, and
20:32
Speaker 1: the record that came from that, So you made a
20:35
Speaker 1: deal with a record deal with a record company. I
20:40
Speaker 1: that big success was recorded. Other songs also were recorded,
20:48
Speaker 1: and I did my first album. You know, my first
20:51
Speaker 1: first album was what year? N fifty six? Noh, pardon
21:03
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty Yeah, I think it terms that makes sense
21:07
Speaker 1: in terms of switching from accordion to guitar. So you
21:11
Speaker 1: make your first album and it's successful immediately in assess, yeah,
21:15
Speaker 1: and some not not not huge success, but successful sufficiently
21:24
Speaker 1: to you know, to keep a career to to you know,
21:28
Speaker 1: why do you say, why do you think it was successful? Novelty?
21:34
Speaker 1: You know, the elements, the new elements that we brought
21:38
Speaker 1: in in that song. You know, the subject of this song,
21:41
Speaker 1: that the sounds that we provided with the guitars and
21:46
Speaker 1: and and with with with the the arrangements, you know,
21:51
Speaker 1: and also the singing was a different way of singing it,
21:55
Speaker 1: you know, but it was it was a novelty. You know. Well,
22:02
Speaker 1: that's very interesting because that's the whey it was in
22:05
Speaker 1: the old day, whereas everything sounds just like everything else today.
22:10
Speaker 1: Um so is that your personality? Are you always testing
22:13
Speaker 1: limits and trying to change things and not be like
22:17
Speaker 1: everybody else? To a certain yeah, to a certain extent, yes,
22:23
Speaker 1: I I was not. I had the feeling that you know,
22:28
Speaker 1: in this life, in this in this living time, we
22:32
Speaker 1: have to contribute as much as we can, you know,
22:35
Speaker 1: with with with things, with with provocations and with you know, uh,
22:41
Speaker 1: it's delationing different elements, you know, in in especially if
22:48
Speaker 1: if you talk about culture and about music, it's something
22:51
Speaker 1: very you know, moving all the time. So whenever one
22:58
Speaker 1: guy or one girl has that kind of feeling that,
23:03
Speaker 1: you know, contribution may be given, maybe possible from from
23:08
Speaker 1: their work, they go in for for it, and that
23:12
Speaker 1: was exactly what happened. I said, okay, Um, I sing
23:16
Speaker 1: a little differently, I play a little differently. I have
23:20
Speaker 1: some new ideas about you know, subjects for for for
23:24
Speaker 1: new songs and that kind of thing. And then I
23:27
Speaker 1: I I, I said, okay. And now at some point
23:31
Speaker 1: in this story they put you in jail. What year
23:35
Speaker 1: do they put you in jail? Then in nineteen sixty
23:40
Speaker 1: eight the system, the political Okay, before we get to
23:45
Speaker 1: sixty eight. What happens between sixty two and sixty eight
23:48
Speaker 1: just more and more success a more and more success, okay,
23:52
Speaker 1: and to the point that we we started a movement,
23:56
Speaker 1: me and Kitanolso and God cost Uh and some other artists.
24:02
Speaker 1: We start a movement that came to be called tropically
24:06
Speaker 1: a tropicalism, and that had, besides being musical, was also
24:14
Speaker 1: a cultural movement, UH enforcing the the the new possibilities
24:23
Speaker 1: of the new theater, of the new UH literature, you know,
24:29
Speaker 1: the new cinema and and and that kind of thing.
24:32
Speaker 1: So it was a huge movement and and of course
24:39
Speaker 1: it became something okay when the the detectorship took place,
24:49
Speaker 1: you know, the military guys, you know, seized power and
24:55
Speaker 1: installed the very very repressive system. So they went for
25:00
Speaker 1: everything that would not be that wouldn't be you know,
25:04
Speaker 1: so before but going back to specifically what you're saying,
25:07
Speaker 1: this was a very turbulent time around the world. There
25:10
Speaker 1: were student protests in France, we had English music, we
25:14
Speaker 1: had race riots in the United States. To what degree
25:17
Speaker 1: were you influenced by that? For the topically small book,
25:21
Speaker 1: of course, a lot a lot. Music was not just
25:26
Speaker 1: music the Beatles, I mean the importance of the Beatles,
25:29
Speaker 1: all the Stones or the Grateful Dad or whatever, you know,
25:36
Speaker 1: the Jeffersonette playing all those groups, you know, Bob Dealon
25:42
Speaker 1: and Jimmy Hendrix. I mean the influences of those artists
25:47
Speaker 1: who are not just musical. They had a lot to
25:50
Speaker 1: do with with new visions and you know, new ways
25:55
Speaker 1: of considering society and and and in costumes and you know,
26:01
Speaker 1: different ways of living and supporting in somehow supporting the
26:09
Speaker 1: revolutionary movements in all in all directions, in different directions,
26:15
Speaker 1: you know. And that, of course, it was very influential
26:18
Speaker 1: on on ourselves. I mean, despite the fact that we
26:22
Speaker 1: had a military regime to protest against here, but I
26:30
Speaker 1: mean the influence coming from outside. I mean the new
26:33
Speaker 1: spirit coming from from youth. You know, that's very well articulated.
26:38
Speaker 1: That's what people who didn't live through the era didn't know.
26:40
Speaker 1: If you wanted to know what was going on, you
26:42
Speaker 1: listen to the radio, you listen to the music. It
26:44
Speaker 1: told you everything about the culture. But to what degree
26:49
Speaker 1: were the Beatles, the Stones, Jefferson Airplane, Bob Dillon, to
26:53
Speaker 1: what degree were they successful in Brazil? Very success, very
26:57
Speaker 1: because successful? Yeah here? And did they ever come any
27:01
Speaker 1: of those acts to play live? They were that at
27:09
Speaker 1: that time they were not sort of still coming to
27:12
Speaker 1: perform in Brazil. Know that that that that that the
27:18
Speaker 1: Bridge and American groups started coming here is something that
27:22
Speaker 1: came later, came exactly after I was excited in London.
27:29
Speaker 1: In London, yes, I went to v to see many
27:32
Speaker 1: many counters concerts, and and I went to see I
27:36
Speaker 1: remember that they went to the lycee Um to see
27:39
Speaker 1: uh John Lennon and Yoko on or doing their performance,
27:46
Speaker 1: you know, for for for for Christmas in nine in
27:49
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy and I went to see Bob Dylan at
27:54
Speaker 1: the Isle of White. I went to see Jimmy Hendrix councils.
27:59
Speaker 1: I went just at the round House. I went to
28:01
Speaker 1: see different places in London. So that experience of being
28:06
Speaker 1: directly influenced by bye bye bye, by contact who let's
28:12
Speaker 1: go back artists, that came after the accident, let's go
28:15
Speaker 1: back the government arrest you? Yeah, what do you think?
28:19
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm what I What I thought? Then? What I think?
28:23
Speaker 1: What I thought? Then? Wow? Was I was? I was
28:28
Speaker 1: so mad, you know on a side, and and so
28:35
Speaker 1: so scared on the other side. I mean I had
28:39
Speaker 1: a mixed mixed of of of of being scared and
28:44
Speaker 1: being mad. So did you think your career was over?
28:49
Speaker 1: Do you think you might die? E? Whow? First they
28:55
Speaker 1: imprisoned us, No, they jailed us. Okay, before you did
28:59
Speaker 1: you know they were going to imprison you? I was
29:02
Speaker 1: expecting from the atmosphere, from the general atmosphere and the
29:07
Speaker 1: increasing of their you know, hardline process. You know, I
29:13
Speaker 1: had a feeling that some how things were going to
29:17
Speaker 1: be to be. Did you ever think of exiling yourself
29:20
Speaker 1: so you wouldn't get arrested? Not? Not then? Not yet. No.
29:24
Speaker 1: I was keeping my my work here. I was saying, Okay,
29:28
Speaker 1: let us see how the situation developed, and then then
29:34
Speaker 1: they came one day, they came to our place and said, okay,
29:38
Speaker 1: you're gonna and they take you to jail with what
29:41
Speaker 1: we say in America, the general population with all the
29:45
Speaker 1: other criminals. No, No, we were political cold prisoners. Yeah,
29:54
Speaker 1: political prison in in in in headquarters, in the me headquarters.
30:01
Speaker 1: Really the government was a military government. So you're there.
30:06
Speaker 1: How long before you're exiled? How long? How long were
30:10
Speaker 1: you in jail before you left the country? Three months?
30:13
Speaker 1: And during that three months months in jail after they
30:18
Speaker 1: they they they sent us to our places with in
30:24
Speaker 1: a situation of harm, imprisonment in Baia for six months,
30:30
Speaker 1: and then they said go out of the country. And
30:32
Speaker 1: then they so they said if you leave, okay, do
30:36
Speaker 1: if you leave it, that's okay. What do we can't
30:38
Speaker 1: allow to you is to come back, you know, to
30:42
Speaker 1: your natural situation of being a performer and making trouble
30:47
Speaker 1: here and you know, talking to the public and that
30:50
Speaker 1: sort of thing, giving interviews in the press and that
30:53
Speaker 1: kind of thing that you cannot If you can go
30:57
Speaker 1: wherever I go, no problem. So you went to it.
31:02
Speaker 1: Were you happy with that necessity? Yes? Because I mean
31:08
Speaker 1: that was the way to get rid of the of
31:12
Speaker 1: the torch, you know, so you go to London. Yeah,
31:16
Speaker 1: do you have any money? No? No, no, no money.
31:21
Speaker 1: The family here it was to collect was left to
31:30
Speaker 1: collect the rights, the music right that we had then
31:37
Speaker 1: you know I had some already at that time, and
31:39
Speaker 1: send us to to intend us in London. So the
31:45
Speaker 1: first let us say, the first year in London, I
31:50
Speaker 1: was living with you know, my my my money coming
31:54
Speaker 1: from Brazil, from our you know, when you go, when
32:00
Speaker 1: you go to London, you're a star in Brazil. Does
32:04
Speaker 1: anybody know who you are in London? Yeah? Okay, so doors,
32:10
Speaker 1: doors start to open, Yeah, there's start open. So this
32:15
Speaker 1: is in sixty nine, July sixty nine, the day I
32:20
Speaker 1: I got to London. That's the very day the rolling
32:24
Speaker 1: stunts were doing the Hide Park, right right after Brian Jones. Yes, yes,
32:32
Speaker 1: the doves free, etcetera. I arrived in London and I remember, well,
32:37
Speaker 1: going coming to the airport to the hotel we're going
32:41
Speaker 1: to be, I saw the park, I mean the leftovers,
32:45
Speaker 1: you know, Ken's and garbage and everything in in in
32:49
Speaker 1: the in the in one sector of the Hyde Park.
32:52
Speaker 1: And then I asked the driver, what's what's going on.
32:56
Speaker 1: Why you know that? He said, it's just the Rolling
33:01
Speaker 1: Stones concert that happened. You know that, and you know
33:05
Speaker 1: that was finished like two or three hours ago. So
33:09
Speaker 1: you land in London, how do you penetrate and get
33:14
Speaker 1: involved with the music scene there? First in terms of recording,
33:21
Speaker 1: the possibilities of recording and everything. Our company here, the PolyGram,
33:30
Speaker 1: a company here got in touch with their their puls
33:35
Speaker 1: and their guys. Remember who was running PolyGram in London.
33:39
Speaker 1: Then no, they get in touch with the guys from
33:44
Speaker 1: PolyGram on PolyGram that they couldn't properly. They themselves do
33:51
Speaker 1: not take care of our of our of our stuff
33:54
Speaker 1: in London, didn't They askd Famous Music, famous music and
33:58
Speaker 1: labor Famous Music part of Paramount and then Ralph Mas
34:05
Speaker 1: was in charge of of of of famous music in London,
34:09
Speaker 1: and that was the guy you know that took us
34:11
Speaker 1: to the studio and started doing things. Planned a recording,
34:16
Speaker 1: did the recording, did the release, and then I released
34:20
Speaker 1: my My, My album in London. So when you were there,
34:24
Speaker 1: was your intention to make music for Brazil or to
34:28
Speaker 1: make music for the rest of the world. Mixed mixed
34:33
Speaker 1: feelings about I was, of course, I I had to
34:39
Speaker 1: to stand for my my Brazilian you know, character and
34:45
Speaker 1: and everything. Was a Brazilian musician recently living the country
34:50
Speaker 1: and everything. So I was a lot compromised with with
34:56
Speaker 1: with the Brazilian thing. But at the same time I
34:59
Speaker 1: had I had a feeling that, you know, I could
35:02
Speaker 1: do an international thing. I could somehow try and an
35:06
Speaker 1: international career. And I started doing it. I started going
35:10
Speaker 1: to Europe, you know, to perform in Switzerland, in France,
35:14
Speaker 1: in Germany. You know, now, did people already know you
35:18
Speaker 1: there or you felt if you played you'd be good
35:20
Speaker 1: enough to build an audience? I know, I had to
35:23
Speaker 1: build an audience. I was not artistically artistics Artistically, I
35:29
Speaker 1: was not knowing, no, no, no. I was a little
35:33
Speaker 1: known in some circles and some restrict circles in in
35:40
Speaker 1: in Paris, and and and in London and Berlin, and
35:44
Speaker 1: and and and other places in Spain by the fact
35:51
Speaker 1: that that we were victims of the of the repression
35:56
Speaker 1: and the dictatorship here. Yeah, so you end up working
36:02
Speaker 1: with some famous musicians while you're in London, yeah kind
36:07
Speaker 1: of yeah, yeah, yeah, we went. One of the things
36:10
Speaker 1: that I used to do was going places to see performances,
36:16
Speaker 1: different performances from different artists, and then I got acquainted,
36:22
Speaker 1: you know, with with some remember Jimmy Capaldi for instance,
36:28
Speaker 1: the drama for of course Traffic. He became a friend
36:32
Speaker 1: at Terry Read Terry Reads, Terry Reading McCabe's. That was
36:37
Speaker 1: a real real friend. I mean, do you know to
36:41
Speaker 1: come to my place, you know, every week and I
36:44
Speaker 1: would go to his cottage, you know, in the countryside
36:50
Speaker 1: in England. And David Gilmore from from from Big Floyd
36:56
Speaker 1: and and many many, many, many different paths that you know,
37:00
Speaker 1: we were able to do. You think they were friends
37:03
Speaker 1: because of your winning personality or because of your music
37:07
Speaker 1: position physician physicians. Yeah, so your music opened the door.
37:12
Speaker 1: But now didn't you also record with Jimmy Cliff That
37:16
Speaker 1: was later, That was late when I got back from
37:20
Speaker 1: exile in Brazil already because reggae music was something that
37:24
Speaker 1: I I had the contact with in London, and yeah,
37:30
Speaker 1: it was big and it took. It wasn't until about
37:33
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight that Bob we had the Johnny uh
37:38
Speaker 1: suddenly from Johnny Nash, who had I can see clearly
37:41
Speaker 1: now in Rain is Gone. What are the great records
37:46
Speaker 1: of all time, but in reality, even though they kept
37:49
Speaker 1: saying that Bob Marley was signed with Blackwell, was black Well?
37:53
Speaker 1: He was on island and they did and and and
37:55
Speaker 1: and then then c Clapton recorded was seventy four, Okay,
38:01
Speaker 1: the end of seventy four, that was the hip of
38:03
Speaker 1: people in America still didn't know what reggae was. So
38:05
Speaker 1: the first album comes out you because I was, as
38:08
Speaker 1: I said, you were in London, but in America we
38:10
Speaker 1: catch a fire and then they had burned in and
38:12
Speaker 1: then I rost them on vibration. Then they had the
38:15
Speaker 1: live album from the Lyceum in seventy seven. But it
38:18
Speaker 1: wasn't until about seventy eight with Doublon by Bus that
38:21
Speaker 1: all of a sudden I followed all of that right
38:24
Speaker 1: because I was a follower of reggae already in Brazil,
38:27
Speaker 1: you know, since I nineteen seventies three. At seventy four,
38:31
Speaker 1: when I came back here and then I got the
38:36
Speaker 1: song uh No One to Cry. I wrote a version
38:40
Speaker 1: of Portuguese version for for that song with the direct
38:44
Speaker 1: translation or new lyrics directors a little adapted to the
38:51
Speaker 1: Brazilian Was it successful? I was talking about the main
38:56
Speaker 1: points in the Yeah, so was it successful? Here? Who
39:01
Speaker 1: was big? The biggest I ever done? Really I've ever made? Yeah?
39:07
Speaker 1: Because No Woman, No Cry. That's my favorite Bob Marley song.
39:11
Speaker 1: Never a hit in America. Everybody knows it now. It's
39:14
Speaker 1: kind of like the It's kind of like the Doors
39:15
Speaker 1: that led Zeppelin. You know, they haven't made any new
39:18
Speaker 1: music for decades, but everybody knows. Okay, So you're in
39:22
Speaker 1: You're in London until what year, seventy two to seventy two.
39:29
Speaker 1: Then I came back too. I was allowed already they
39:35
Speaker 1: calm down or the government changed the government. They were
39:40
Speaker 1: still military, but you know they started an opening. Okay,
39:47
Speaker 1: So when you were in London, when I was in London,
39:49
Speaker 1: I got the news. Now, probably you can't come back.
39:54
Speaker 1: They're not going to put you in jail again. They're
39:57
Speaker 1: gonna allow you to start a little you know, but
40:01
Speaker 1: can you make entry re establishing your career here. So
40:06
Speaker 1: if you if you want to come, come, but that
40:09
Speaker 1: they also say, don't make any trouble some to some,
40:13
Speaker 1: but you're a troublemaker. No, no, no excuse. So when
40:18
Speaker 1: you come back, do you make trouble? The recording of
40:25
Speaker 1: the song No Woman no Cry at the time of distinction.
40:30
Speaker 1: You know that that's the word I forgot, distinction, you know,
40:35
Speaker 1: no distinction in distinction the system and everything that would
40:41
Speaker 1: that that song contributed a lot to the you know,
40:45
Speaker 1: to this opening to the Okay, So you did a
40:49
Speaker 1: version of No Woman, No Cry when you were still
40:51
Speaker 1: living in London. No, that's when you came back. I
40:54
Speaker 1: came back and then I met Jimmy Cliff here for
40:59
Speaker 1: the first time. Actually, Jimmy had a great version of
41:04
Speaker 1: of Yeah, of that songle and that was the one
41:08
Speaker 1: I heard first. I came to listen Bob Maley's version
41:13
Speaker 1: later when I did the version in portug the Portuguese
41:19
Speaker 1: version I was based on on on Jimmy version. Okay,
41:23
Speaker 1: So when you were in London for three years, did
41:26
Speaker 1: you want to come back to Brazil? Are sure? Sure?
41:30
Speaker 1: We're missing the family, missing my my first two daughters.
41:35
Speaker 1: You know that I had to live here with my
41:37
Speaker 1: with my parents, and you know, Okay, so you come back.
41:42
Speaker 1: So in the three years you are in England with
41:45
Speaker 1: the Polygraham UK, you make in roads around you, you
41:51
Speaker 1: make in roads around the rest of the world. So
41:54
Speaker 1: it's still going up and you go back to Brazil.
41:57
Speaker 1: You have an immediate hit with no woman, no cry,
42:00
Speaker 1: So you're bigger than ever. Yeah, what's the next step?
42:04
Speaker 1: Next step to suggest to proceed, just to go go
42:07
Speaker 1: on doing things, one record after, you know, after the
42:12
Speaker 1: auto one record, and then another record, another record, one
42:16
Speaker 1: hit here, one hit there, and everything, and then years
42:20
Speaker 1: passing also the time passing by, and and and and
42:24
Speaker 1: and and and of course I became established artists as
42:29
Speaker 1: I am to And to what degree once you were
42:31
Speaker 1: back in Brazil, did you work in the rest of
42:34
Speaker 1: the world. Pardon you, what do you mean exactly what
42:38
Speaker 1: you're now in nineteen coming background, you know, after you
42:41
Speaker 1: come back to Brazil, Yeah, in ninety two. To what
42:45
Speaker 1: degree are you working in Europe and the US? To
42:49
Speaker 1: a certain degree, not as much as I started to
42:53
Speaker 1: work after I went to the Montree Festival in Switzerland
43:00
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy eight, because then I really had European
43:09
Speaker 1: doors open, you know, in a in a very extensive
43:13
Speaker 1: sense so to my music. And then I started performing
43:17
Speaker 1: regularly in five six different towns in France, five six
43:21
Speaker 1: different towns in in Germany, Italy, Portugal, Spain, and so
43:28
Speaker 1: I was able then after after nineteen. I was able
43:33
Speaker 1: to travel for two months and perform every every every
43:39
Speaker 1: every two days, ever, two nights, ever, two evenings in
43:42
Speaker 1: different places in in Europe. And then that that because
43:47
Speaker 1: became a solid European career as well as in the States.
43:51
Speaker 1: I started coming to New York to perform. Who brought
43:55
Speaker 1: you to New York? Brought you to the States, the
43:59
Speaker 1: same people that brought me to Monterrey. My my my
44:03
Speaker 1: record company, people Warner brother ness We so we heard again, yeah,
44:11
Speaker 1: the distribution arm It's brother He brought me to montre
44:15
Speaker 1: and so he knew Claude and he said you got
44:17
Speaker 1: to put him off. Yeah, sure, and so we we
44:20
Speaker 1: credit Nessary for your international career. Sure, absolutely absolutely. And
44:27
Speaker 1: then she said, now it's time after Europe. Now it's America.
44:30
Speaker 1: So you had to come to America. I'm gonna find
44:33
Speaker 1: a promoter, I'm gonna find a book king agent for
44:38
Speaker 1: you here. And then they started booking me in Washington,
44:42
Speaker 1: in in In in Chicago, in New York, in Miami,
44:46
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, in San Francisco, and places where I
44:51
Speaker 1: still go very often. You know, now there are a
44:54
Speaker 1: lot of people live in America. When you first come
44:57
Speaker 1: to America. Is it mostly Brazil at expat Brazilians or
45:03
Speaker 1: is it not necessarily No, I started having audiences, you know,
45:07
Speaker 1: local audiences all over you know, and how how important
45:13
Speaker 1: is it? Right? How important is it to you to
45:17
Speaker 1: be successful outside Brazil? It's always important a musician that
45:22
Speaker 1: you know, has music as as his you know, to
45:28
Speaker 1: his instrument, his element, to contact, you know, to get
45:33
Speaker 1: across musical messages and and and not just musical messages,
45:38
Speaker 1: but messages in general. I mean, it's very important that
45:43
Speaker 1: we have an international always say the same thing. A
45:48
Speaker 1: real artist likes an audience more than money. That's it money, secretary,
45:52
Speaker 1: But there's some money is just to survive, right, All
45:56
Speaker 1: giences is to live or it's like, uh, a friend
46:01
Speaker 1: of mine booked Oprah Winfrey. You know who Oprah Winfrey is? Yes? No,
46:05
Speaker 1: do you know who Oprah winfre Okay, we never met? Okay,
46:10
Speaker 1: so president, but I know Oprah ended her TV show
46:14
Speaker 1: and she was playing arenas and a friend of mine
46:16
Speaker 1: was booking it. And they say, why does Oprah have
46:20
Speaker 1: to work? As David letterby saying Oprah has all the
46:23
Speaker 1: money you No, No, he says, no, where he can
46:25
Speaker 1: get that amount of love that hit unless you play live.
46:29
Speaker 1: But he got twenty thousand people cheering for you and
46:32
Speaker 1: saying exactly, still valuable, It's still worth you know, listening
46:38
Speaker 1: to somebody like hair and and it's it's still worthful
46:43
Speaker 1: hair addressing some people. So, but you're in Brazil. In America,
46:50
Speaker 1: generally speaking, artists is successful for three to five years.
46:54
Speaker 1: Then there's a new crop of artists, but you continue
46:58
Speaker 1: to be successful. I come from a time in history,
47:04
Speaker 1: you know, as as an artist, where and where things
47:10
Speaker 1: were a little different from you know they are today.
47:17
Speaker 1: Establishing something was was important, you know, not just for
47:23
Speaker 1: for the artists or the record companies, but also for
47:26
Speaker 1: the public. The public like it to be, you know,
47:32
Speaker 1: to be to be with the ones, to be standing
47:35
Speaker 1: for the ones that they couldn't agree more, you know,
47:39
Speaker 1: but public wanted that. And you think the public had
47:43
Speaker 1: their space to do that because they were not bombard
47:47
Speaker 1: by by new stuff, new musical bombs and as we
47:54
Speaker 1: are today, I mean we had we had time and
47:58
Speaker 1: space the time economy. No, I couldn't agree with as
48:03
Speaker 1: I said, you would be in yours to to to
48:06
Speaker 1: to to settle. You know, you bought a record and
48:10
Speaker 1: you couldn't afford every record, and you came in your
48:13
Speaker 1: bedroom and you played that record again and again and again.
48:16
Speaker 1: It's not like today with the whole history recorded music,
48:18
Speaker 1: is that your fingertips not no, no, And with the
48:21
Speaker 1: the internet, music shops and and everything that you can
48:28
Speaker 1: you know, you do your lists and everything. I mean,
48:32
Speaker 1: it's it's completely different today, totally different. So you know,
48:37
Speaker 1: they want to be faithful. I mean, like the public
48:40
Speaker 1: who wanted you know, that kind But do you think
48:43
Speaker 1: the public still feels that way. It's just they're bombarded.
48:47
Speaker 1: Some especially the older generations, they stand for that style
48:55
Speaker 1: of of of you know, of being fans and in
49:00
Speaker 1: appreciating music and everything. Then new kids forget. I mean,
49:05
Speaker 1: they go with the tides. You know, you're listening to
49:14
Speaker 1: the legendary Gioberto Jiel, superstar in Brazil. We'll be back
49:19
Speaker 1: in a moment. I hope you're enjoying listening to this
49:23
Speaker 1: episode of The Bob Lefts Podcast. If you want to
49:26
Speaker 1: see videos and photos of our guests, go to at
49:29
Speaker 1: tune in on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Let's dive right
49:33
Speaker 1: back in with my guest Joberto Jill on the Bob
49:36
Speaker 1: Left sets podcast. So you end up working in the
49:42
Speaker 1: government for a while. Yeah, how did that come to big? Oh?
49:48
Speaker 1: One day I was president Lula had been elected. So
49:55
Speaker 1: what year is this? That was two thousand one, two
50:03
Speaker 1: thousand end of two thousand one, two thousand two, uh,
50:07
Speaker 1: and he had been elected. In one day. I was
50:11
Speaker 1: on stage in some Paulo um uh sound checking for
50:19
Speaker 1: a concert and then I got a call and that
50:22
Speaker 1: was his secretary. They had you met him previously? Oh? Sure,
50:27
Speaker 1: I had met him, sure during the campaign. And I
50:31
Speaker 1: had been following his career because he wasn't a worker
50:35
Speaker 1: and he was a labor you know man for for
50:41
Speaker 1: for a while, and then he became a politician and
50:44
Speaker 1: then he ran for for for president for three times
50:48
Speaker 1: and lost, and then he went a fourth time and
50:51
Speaker 1: he he succeeded. He was elected. Then that day he
50:55
Speaker 1: was that call from him from his secretary saying President Lula. Yeah,
51:01
Speaker 1: he was good to be inaugurated like three months later
51:08
Speaker 1: in January two thousand three. And then he invited me
51:14
Speaker 1: to go to Brazilia and to offer me the Ministry
51:17
Speaker 1: of Culture. And then I pondered, then, no, they are
51:25
Speaker 1: start pros and cons and and that single, and I
51:30
Speaker 1: decided to go and I went. I stayed there for
51:33
Speaker 1: six years with him. Okay, when you were the six
51:37
Speaker 1: years there, to what degree could you pursue music? Of
51:42
Speaker 1: course I could. I could have my guitar with me
51:45
Speaker 1: whenever I went wherever I went, and I I made
51:50
Speaker 1: a deal with the with the the government that I
51:56
Speaker 1: I could perform. I could keep performing, uh as far
52:04
Speaker 1: as I could, you know, yeah, time, Yeah, I had
52:09
Speaker 1: time for that. And then every every year we had
52:14
Speaker 1: we were allowed one month off the government job, and
52:21
Speaker 1: that I took those went on the road to go
52:25
Speaker 1: to the States, to Europe and everything, and here in Brazil,
52:30
Speaker 1: every weekend or whenever I wanted, at the weekends, I
52:34
Speaker 1: would go places and perform, provide that I was performing
52:39
Speaker 1: by my own you know, costs, and not doing not
52:48
Speaker 1: not performing for for public. So what did you show?
52:52
Speaker 1: What did you learn working six years for the government.
52:57
Speaker 1: What I learned that is very first that that's very
53:00
Speaker 1: difficult government job. Government job is something very difficult because
53:06
Speaker 1: of many factors. First money, first, the budget, you know,
53:12
Speaker 1: in in in a country like Brazil, for instance, you know,
53:16
Speaker 1: with a with a little tradition of of of of
53:20
Speaker 1: of of of really having money for you know, for
53:28
Speaker 1: the public thing. It's very short the money that you
53:33
Speaker 1: can have, especially if it's a minister of like like
53:37
Speaker 1: the one I went, you know to run culture, minister
53:42
Speaker 1: of culture. It was very little money. That was one
53:47
Speaker 1: factor that you know, made the thing very difficult. Second,
53:52
Speaker 1: the politics themselves, you know, different parties, different people too too,
53:58
Speaker 1: to attend different people to to satisfy different different you know,
54:05
Speaker 1: and a huge uh condition of Brazil as a country,
54:10
Speaker 1: you know, many many different areas two enchy and such
54:16
Speaker 1: an states, different states, difty five thousand municipalities, and and
54:27
Speaker 1: and and and and it was very difficult, you know,
54:30
Speaker 1: it was. But anyway, we we we succeeded to do something.
54:36
Speaker 1: We did something. So if you had to do it
54:39
Speaker 1: all over again, would you still take the job because
54:43
Speaker 1: because I'm I'm, I'm it's a different moment, I am
54:48
Speaker 1: too old, or we forget forget that if you were
54:51
Speaker 1: the same age again, if we could go back in time,
54:54
Speaker 1: back in time, of course I would I would accept. Okay,
54:57
Speaker 1: So what because that was a natural impulse that I followed,
55:01
Speaker 1: you know, a natural inner thing that I followed that
55:07
Speaker 1: it is studid with me I mean, I'm I'm sticking
55:10
Speaker 1: to my nature. So uh you if you were famous
55:16
Speaker 1: for being the opposite of a lot of old I
55:19
Speaker 1: don't mean the ural, but a lot of institutional people.
55:23
Speaker 1: You were for creative comments, you were all about the internet.
55:27
Speaker 1: How did you come to those beliefs through natural inter connecting,
55:36
Speaker 1: interchanging with life and you know, with new technologies and
55:43
Speaker 1: new um and concepts about about what is necessary to
55:49
Speaker 1: provide as a as a as a government. You know
55:52
Speaker 1: what what what's what's the task of a government, especially
55:57
Speaker 1: in the democracy, when we can you know, have different ideas,
56:03
Speaker 1: different people, different uh ways of of of of viewing
56:09
Speaker 1: the world and everything. So the new ways of and
56:13
Speaker 1: in one thing, I as an artist, especially in those
56:16
Speaker 1: times with when I was, I had to to sort
56:21
Speaker 1: of oppose myself to the dictator of ship and everything
56:26
Speaker 1: and the exile and everything. I learned too. I learned
56:29
Speaker 1: to respect youth, to respect the new things in in
56:36
Speaker 1: in life. I developed a big respect for new things
56:40
Speaker 1: in life. I think that new things do not that
56:43
Speaker 1: come through technology, through science, through you know, uh uh
56:50
Speaker 1: different forms of knowledge and everything. That's very important. That's
56:55
Speaker 1: what you know that that what's pushes so I had
57:01
Speaker 1: well a little and I took some some of those
57:04
Speaker 1: ideas and some of the projects that we had around
57:08
Speaker 1: to the gut. Okay, once a little bit slower and
57:12
Speaker 1: a little bit deeper. What made you realize you have
57:16
Speaker 1: to get into new ideas and you have to embrace
57:19
Speaker 1: the future. What made me too? I don't, I don't.
57:26
Speaker 1: I don't know if I if I had, I can
57:29
Speaker 1: recollect in terms of memory. Let me put it in
57:32
Speaker 1: different Let me put it in a different way. Uh.
57:35
Speaker 1: There are many people who love rock and roll but
57:39
Speaker 1: hate but hate hip hop? Are you the type of
57:42
Speaker 1: person when there's a new sound you say I like
57:45
Speaker 1: the old sound, or you say, well, let me see
57:47
Speaker 1: what's going on on the new side. Even if I
57:49
Speaker 1: don't like, I respect the right of existing, the right
57:55
Speaker 1: of being. You know, I respect differences. This is something
58:00
Speaker 1: that I learned in life to respect differences. You know,
58:05
Speaker 1: I am different from you, But it's not because I'm
58:10
Speaker 1: different from you that I have to eliminate you. Right.
58:14
Speaker 1: So what are you most proud of? What you accomplished?
58:18
Speaker 1: Working for the government, we had a project named cultural
58:24
Speaker 1: hot Spots that we were able to spread over Brazil
58:32
Speaker 1: that would would be uh, the calling of the communities,
58:40
Speaker 1: especially poor communities and especially very distant communities in the
58:47
Speaker 1: country to come and participate culturally and have and and
58:54
Speaker 1: and and and and start playing with computers and starting
59:00
Speaker 1: have broad band, you know, to uploading download things and everything.
59:08
Speaker 1: So the hot spots where you know, designed to do that,
59:12
Speaker 1: and we were able to have three point five thousand
59:18
Speaker 1: hot spots in Brazil in that period of six years,
59:23
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, some still doing very well. You know,
59:29
Speaker 1: they were very helpful in in in in bringing people
59:34
Speaker 1: to to to do different things, to to include themselves culturally,
59:39
Speaker 1: you know, to come from from from the very far
59:46
Speaker 1: away places, you know, and have a role in the
59:50
Speaker 1: in the cultural uh, the whole cultural thing in Brazil,
59:56
Speaker 1: in the country. And I am very proud that project. Okay,
1:00:02
Speaker 1: as we sit here, President Lula is supposed to turn
1:00:06
Speaker 1: himself in to go to jail. What do you feel
1:00:09
Speaker 1: about that? I feel so many different things. First, I
1:00:13
Speaker 1: feel very sorry for him and for ourselves because it's
1:00:20
Speaker 1: a very interesting man that had done a very interesting
1:00:24
Speaker 1: job for the for for for our country. Um and
1:00:32
Speaker 1: and of course I mean he he's been child you
1:00:37
Speaker 1: know by justice in Brazil. With some and and just
1:00:46
Speaker 1: the justice in Brazil had has some some arguments, you know,
1:00:54
Speaker 1: and they have some after all, they they have collected
1:01:01
Speaker 1: some reasons to put him, to send him, you know,
1:01:06
Speaker 1: in prison um, which are very sketchy, sketchish, you know,
1:01:18
Speaker 1: And so I feel I feel sorry for for all
1:01:24
Speaker 1: of that. I hope, I hope that either staying in prison,
1:01:38
Speaker 1: oh getting out, he will be able to stand you know,
1:01:44
Speaker 1: for his strong characters as Okay, it's an interesting this,
1:01:50
Speaker 1: it's a learning experience being an American in Rio, Brazil.
1:01:55
Speaker 1: Although we get we get a certain amount of news.
1:01:59
Speaker 1: But before I came to I tend not to be
1:02:02
Speaker 1: a paranoid person. But before I came here, high profile
1:02:06
Speaker 1: people in the music business said very dangerous, don't leave
1:02:10
Speaker 1: the hotel without security, etcetera. I thought they were fearful Americans.
1:02:16
Speaker 1: But when I talked to people in Rio, they say,
1:02:19
Speaker 1: it is dangerous. Okay, So what is the future of Brazil.
1:02:24
Speaker 1: I hope we we're gonna be able to overcome this
1:02:29
Speaker 1: degrading there's a degradation that we live now in terms
1:02:34
Speaker 1: of society socially, you know, with the whole differences that
1:02:42
Speaker 1: we have today. I mean the injustice, the social injustice
1:02:47
Speaker 1: that we've been having with bad distribution of wealth and
1:02:52
Speaker 1: and that up to thaying I mean access of education,
1:02:56
Speaker 1: excess of UH to health care and that kind of thing.
1:03:02
Speaker 1: I mean that makes Brazil, I mean this this dangerous
1:03:07
Speaker 1: place that we have today because poor people not assisted,
1:03:12
Speaker 1: not not attended, you know. Um, so crime becomes an alternative,
1:03:22
Speaker 1: an easy alternative. Crime is something very very very strong worldwide.
1:03:31
Speaker 1: You know, the connecting networks. You know that the crime
1:03:38
Speaker 1: networks are very very big all over you know, so
1:03:43
Speaker 1: for for for for for a, for a for UH
1:03:47
Speaker 1: and then not none attended population. You know, crime is
1:03:54
Speaker 1: becomes a very easy alternative, you know, and that makes
1:03:59
Speaker 1: makes a place danger as as as we have today
1:04:03
Speaker 1: in this is the way out to Dame Brazil. In
1:04:06
Speaker 1: other places we have different forms of danger, like in
1:04:12
Speaker 1: your country and right the things of the guns and well,
1:04:16
Speaker 1: in my country there's a lot of crime committed by
1:04:20
Speaker 1: white collar community and there's very rarely a penalty. But
1:04:27
Speaker 1: in the UK and in the US there's a camera everywhere.
1:04:32
Speaker 1: So certainly, certainly over the past few decades, the murder
1:04:37
Speaker 1: rate has gone down because the economy has improved, in
1:04:41
Speaker 1: most big cities. But if you're a blue collar person
1:04:45
Speaker 1: and you do anything, they have a recording. We used
1:04:48
Speaker 1: to say tape. Now it's on hard drive, so you know,
1:04:51
Speaker 1: it's almost like a TV show. Somebody steals it. Let's
1:04:53
Speaker 1: go to the tape. There's always a tape. But it
1:04:56
Speaker 1: would it doesn't seem to be that way in Brazil.
1:05:00
Speaker 1: Doesn't seem to be like they have a camera everywhere. No,
1:05:04
Speaker 1: we as comparing no with with with with the States,
1:05:09
Speaker 1: with with your country. I mean we are we are
1:05:12
Speaker 1: under under under under development in various in many various sense.
1:05:20
Speaker 1: You know, we have a lot to to to do.
1:05:25
Speaker 1: We have a long way to go. I mean, uh,
1:05:30
Speaker 1: how our foundations are historical foundations are very different from
1:05:37
Speaker 1: from the ones and from my body has told me
1:05:39
Speaker 1: how they're different. Oh, you had you had a colonizing
1:05:44
Speaker 1: process that was quite different from from ours. Uh you
1:05:49
Speaker 1: were you had Bridge colonnaders, you know first, you know,
1:05:56
Speaker 1: coming from England to do a different thing, to prove
1:06:03
Speaker 1: that they could build a new society, you know, as
1:06:09
Speaker 1: a strong or even more strong than they had the
1:06:14
Speaker 1: English such the British society and everything. So they had
1:06:18
Speaker 1: to kind of a proud, you know, a pride and
1:06:25
Speaker 1: and and and and and and that sort of thing.
1:06:28
Speaker 1: They colonizers that came to Brazil, they came to to
1:06:36
Speaker 1: rip them off, to rip and that mentality remains. Someone
1:06:44
Speaker 1: told me a Brazilian a driver said that Brazilians tend
1:06:48
Speaker 1: to look out for themselves and say, what what can
1:06:51
Speaker 1: I do for me? If it hurts somebody else, They're
1:06:53
Speaker 1: not that worried about it, not in some senses. But
1:06:56
Speaker 1: but we we also can be a very generous, uh people.
1:07:03
Speaker 1: It can be so at this point in many, many,
1:07:06
Speaker 1: many different ways we can know about our houses. Well
1:07:09
Speaker 1: certainly have opened their hearts to me, but you know,
1:07:12
Speaker 1: my view is relatively limited to supposed to someone lives here.
1:07:15
Speaker 1: So you mentioned to me earlier before we were on
1:07:19
Speaker 1: Mike that you personally had an experience where you were robbed,
1:07:24
Speaker 1: your family was robbed. Mm hmmm. It was not recently.
1:07:28
Speaker 1: It was a couple of decades ago, a couple of decades.
1:07:30
Speaker 1: But do you ever think of because of the social
1:07:34
Speaker 1: political situation in Brazil, do you ever think of moving
1:07:38
Speaker 1: to another country? No, No, I've been to other I
1:07:41
Speaker 1: was in London, right, I was in England, you know,
1:07:44
Speaker 1: during the exile. I was spontaneously in l a for
1:07:50
Speaker 1: almost two years when I I decided to go there,
1:07:54
Speaker 1: invited by Sagimendous to do an American record and everything,
1:08:00
Speaker 1: but never really thought about living Brazil, you know, um
1:08:04
Speaker 1: and because I think that facing difficulties and and and
1:08:10
Speaker 1: and and in danger and and and accepted, you know,
1:08:17
Speaker 1: unbearable situations, there is something that you can always have anywhere.
1:08:22
Speaker 1: And the first time I was robbed was in London
1:08:28
Speaker 1: and and what what what was it? I went to
1:08:32
Speaker 1: the ground Scotts that you might have heard about, very
1:08:37
Speaker 1: famous London nightclub, Jazz Scott and Scott the Sacks playing
1:08:43
Speaker 1: exactly club there. I went one night to see, if
1:08:48
Speaker 1: I'm not wrong, it was Sundra okay that was performing there,
1:08:54
Speaker 1: legendary Arry Sundra. And entering the the club, I was
1:09:04
Speaker 1: grabbed by two young guys and with the with the
1:09:09
Speaker 1: knife and then you know, they menaced me with a
1:09:14
Speaker 1: knife and everything, and they mhm inside in my pocket,
1:09:21
Speaker 1: you know, hands inside my pocket, took my my wallet,
1:09:24
Speaker 1: took my money, run away. And that was London, so
1:09:30
Speaker 1: they say it could happen anywhere, and that was what
1:09:34
Speaker 1: they were getting money for drugs right m that's a
1:09:43
Speaker 1: whole different topic about legalizing drugs and reducing crime. You know,
1:09:47
Speaker 1: we're making some progress with marijuana and America and America.
1:09:51
Speaker 1: Too many people are in jail for drugs who shouldn't be.
1:09:53
Speaker 1: But the federal government right now is fighting. It's a
1:09:56
Speaker 1: crazy situation. We don't have to talk about crazy. United
1:09:58
Speaker 1: States is. But at this point in your career, are
1:10:03
Speaker 1: you still excited about making new music? Yes, yes, but
1:10:09
Speaker 1: a little more selectively. You know, what does that mean?
1:10:14
Speaker 1: More selectively, less frequently, less frequently, um attending to more
1:10:24
Speaker 1: special requests, you know, a little more like very So.
1:10:31
Speaker 1: How many live dates do you do a year now?
1:10:34
Speaker 1: I do around fifty, when I used to do a
1:10:42
Speaker 1: hundred twenty. And you do it for the rhythm, for
1:10:46
Speaker 1: the emotional experience, or you do it for the money,
1:10:49
Speaker 1: mostly for for the experience, for the for the pleasure,
1:10:53
Speaker 1: you know, for the the nourishing of my You've been
1:10:58
Speaker 1: doing it a long time, and I heard this question
1:11:01
Speaker 1: asked if John bon Jovi, of all people recently, do
1:11:05
Speaker 1: you remember a specific gig that was like the greatest
1:11:09
Speaker 1: gig for you? Difficult one at least two or three
1:11:14
Speaker 1: and What made those so special, Uh that the music.
1:11:20
Speaker 1: Sometimes I mean they're performing properly speaking. Sometimes I mean
1:11:24
Speaker 1: the delivering, the playing, the singing, the band, that kind
1:11:29
Speaker 1: of thing in the old giance and and their reaction.
1:11:33
Speaker 1: But sometimes the situation in the general sense. One of
1:11:36
Speaker 1: these memorable performances that I have in mind that you
1:11:42
Speaker 1: asked me about is the one in nine when we
1:11:50
Speaker 1: had already asked to leave Resil for the exile and
1:11:55
Speaker 1: we were allowed to do a farewell concert in Baiya
1:12:02
Speaker 1: and then we did, you know, and it was ten
1:12:05
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning of Sunday, real real music time,
1:12:12
Speaker 1: music time, and and it was incredible. I mean, you know,
1:12:18
Speaker 1: the the the the warmth, and and and and and
1:12:24
Speaker 1: in in the it's no words, you know, no words,
1:12:31
Speaker 1: I can get the emotion. Just yeah, you're saying, you know,
1:12:35
Speaker 1: to to a level that it's absolutely impossible to describe
1:12:39
Speaker 1: in words. Now, if you're at home, you obviously are
1:12:43
Speaker 1: making your own music. And A C. D. C famously
1:12:45
Speaker 1: said they didn't listen to anybody else's music. But do
1:12:49
Speaker 1: you listen to other people's music? And what are some
1:12:52
Speaker 1: of your favorite musicians or records? I still like very much.
1:12:58
Speaker 1: I had some old rec is that you know, Oh
1:13:01
Speaker 1: I'm old to you can mention the role, yeah, exackly
1:13:05
Speaker 1: bye bye bye bye bye. Miles Davis for instance, kind
1:13:09
Speaker 1: of Blue, kind of Blue and Bitches Brew? You like
1:13:13
Speaker 1: it's that I that I I bought when I was
1:13:17
Speaker 1: in London. That was exactly when he released bitch Brew
1:13:22
Speaker 1: when I was arriving in The funny thing was because
1:13:25
Speaker 1: we were talking also off Mike about the Fillmore East.
1:13:28
Speaker 1: Laura Nero, who was a client of David Geffen. She
1:13:31
Speaker 1: used to play at the Filmore ultimately every Christmas. But
1:13:35
Speaker 1: I went to see her in June, June of seventy
1:13:39
Speaker 1: and the opening act was Miles Davis playing Bitches Brew. Now,
1:13:43
Speaker 1: if you look at that record today and you look
1:13:45
Speaker 1: who's on it, we didn't know anything. We're sitting there
1:13:48
Speaker 1: waiting for Laura Nero. But I think John McLaughlin was
1:13:51
Speaker 1: in the band. Everybody was in the band was unbelievable.
1:13:54
Speaker 1: The Brazilian to any other records that you think of, Oh,
1:14:01
Speaker 1: Jimmie's records, Jimmie Hendry's records, Molly's records. Can you mentioned
1:14:07
Speaker 1: a specific uh, Jimmie Hendricks or Bob Marley record or
1:14:11
Speaker 1: song Bob I would I would go what for for
1:14:19
Speaker 1: Oh Babylon Baby bas would be okay, But I think
1:14:25
Speaker 1: that catch a Fire would be okay one of the
1:14:27
Speaker 1: first third up studio up one of these things. Um
1:14:32
Speaker 1: from from Jimmie um Boda's Lovely six nine Yeah yeah,
1:14:43
Speaker 1: and from Miles I have already mentioned um Deylon's songs
1:14:53
Speaker 1: and records and and in Brazil. I mean so many. Okay.
1:14:59
Speaker 1: So when the time you have left on this planet,
1:15:02
Speaker 1: which is not infinite because none of us are gonna
1:15:04
Speaker 1: live forever, any any specific thing you would like to accomplish,
1:15:08
Speaker 1: or any goals left unfulfilled that I haven't already. Yes, No,
1:15:15
Speaker 1: no big ambitions left. I mean I think that the
1:15:18
Speaker 1: main targets have been you know, hit and and the
1:15:27
Speaker 1: main desires have been satisfied. They're not I'm I'm okay,
1:15:32
Speaker 1: I'm I'm the little um ambition that remains. It's related
1:15:41
Speaker 1: to this day to day kind of you know, needs
1:15:46
Speaker 1: that we have. We have to have to be clean.
1:15:52
Speaker 1: I love, I love to be. You're wearing all white today.
1:15:55
Speaker 1: I love certainly look clean and sound clean to be,
1:16:00
Speaker 1: you know, but a little perfume you know, I like
1:16:08
Speaker 1: to to to eat mhmm, not not much, but you know,
1:16:18
Speaker 1: I like the way they cook our food at home,
1:16:21
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. I I still like to go sometimes,
1:16:26
Speaker 1: go to go to the States, go to to Japan,
1:16:29
Speaker 1: go to Africa something. Um. I think that that in October,
1:16:36
Speaker 1: I'm going to India for the third time. Uh. That
1:16:43
Speaker 1: those things, and watching the kids growing, watching the the family,
1:16:52
Speaker 1: you know, becoming grown up to them stafflished themselves. Yes,
1:16:58
Speaker 1: and and and have been starting to have to do
1:17:01
Speaker 1: with life problems been right right right, They see how
1:17:06
Speaker 1: hard it was, Yeah, and that sort of thing. I
1:17:09
Speaker 1: mean in the since I'm okay, I'm I've been, I've been, Um,
1:17:18
Speaker 1: I mean fred you know, okay. In nine seven, James
1:17:24
Speaker 1: Taylor put out a record called JT Switched from Warner
1:17:28
Speaker 1: Brothers to Columbia, and the last song on the first
1:17:30
Speaker 1: slaught side was called the Secret of Life, and he said,
1:17:34
Speaker 1: the secret of life is enjoying the passage of time. Yeah,
1:17:38
Speaker 1: you have a lot of perspective. Any secrets of life
1:17:41
Speaker 1: you can inform my audience. Just the minute to minute,
1:17:45
Speaker 1: our to our day to day, year to year thing.
1:17:48
Speaker 1: You know, it goes and it goes and goes, and
1:17:52
Speaker 1: you you you go adapting yourself in several terms and physically, mentally,
1:17:59
Speaker 1: you know, emotionally you go, you go, adapting to whatever
1:18:05
Speaker 1: life offers O impose to you. You've been listening to
1:18:11
Speaker 1: the astounding Gilberto Jill, who started talking about the impact
1:18:16
Speaker 1: of music beyond the actual notes on the audience in
1:18:20
Speaker 1: the sixties, and you can see he's still that gentleman
1:18:23
Speaker 1: who looks at the landscape and says, Hm, this is
1:18:26
Speaker 1: my perspective. And if you've been listening to this point,
1:18:29
Speaker 1: I know that your perspective had been widened. Thanks so
1:18:32
Speaker 1: much for being on the podcasting to thank you and
1:18:36
Speaker 1: your audience. Once again, that was Gilberto Jill. I know
1:18:44
Speaker 1: your head is spinning as mine was when I was
1:18:46
Speaker 1: in the hills of Rio de Janeiro listening to him
1:18:48
Speaker 1: talk about his life, his politics, even being in the
1:18:52
Speaker 1: government of Brazil. Until next time it's the Bob left
1:18:56
Speaker 1: Sets podcast. M h. I can think of me reason
1:19:15
Speaker 1: and I don't know me exactly.