Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Doreen Virtue: Bible Apps And ‘Christian’ Meditation Apps To Avoid

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Doreen Virtue: Bible Apps And ‘Christian’ Meditation Apps To Avoid · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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defending biblical Christianity.
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No topic off limits.
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And now, here's your host, David Fierazzo.
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God bless you, friends.
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Thank you for tuning in.
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Doreen Virtue is my guest.
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Day she's back with us.
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Before we get to her and talk about recent ministry and what we've got coming up in the
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topic today, I just want to share, first John chapter four reminds us, do not believe
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every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God.
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Because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
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By this, you know the spirit of God, every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has
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come in the flesh is from God.
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And every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God.
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This is the spirit of the Antichrist.
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And it goes on.
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And greater is he who is in us, the Holy Spirit, than he who is in the world, Satan and
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his minions and demonic spirits.
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So with that, we bring in Doreen Virtue, author, former New Ageer and podcasters.
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So great to see you again, sister.
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Thank you, brother David.
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Hi to everybody.
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I'm so happy to talk about this topic today.
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Yes.
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And what we're going to dive into in just a few minutes is Christian, quote, meditation,
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apps, Bible apps, just different things that we've been seeing marketed.
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And what Doreen's got a lot of discernment in this area.
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So we're going to rely on her.
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She's done a lot of research.
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And I think we need to find out what ones are not good for believers in Christ.
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And we should avoid.
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Before we do that, Doreen, you mentioned before we got on, next year, you're going to be
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speaking at the Ark and counter.
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And that's really an amazing thing.
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Because as we've talked about, they have always had, you know, creationists and apologists
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and other important topics and speakers and to bring in you.
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And I think you said, costy hen, tell us a little bit about that what people can watch
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out for.
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That's right, David.
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At the end of March, beginning of April, it's two conferences back to back called answers
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for women in AIG, answers in Genesis, answers for women, 2025 conference.
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And it, the theme and the name is called resolute and it's standing on biblical truth
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and being resolute against these false teachings that are coming into the church.
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So costy hen, as you mentioned, famous discernment teacher, myself, Amy Spreeman, Michelle
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Leslie, Jessica Smith, Katie Jay, Ran Sherry, who's one of the experts on why the
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Enneagram is to be marked and avoided.
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We're all going to be there talking for two, three day conferences.
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It's women conferences next year.
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And I really am looking forward to that.
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This is my first speech since being saved.
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When I was in the new age, I was speaking almost every weekend at different places.
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And I've gotten lots of speaking opportunities since I've been saved, but I was just waiting
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for the right one and a women's conference particularly because I don't believe in women
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teaching to mixed audiences.
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And so this is such an honor to be speaking on this topic because when I was first saved,
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I was horrified to see how much new age deception has infiltrated the church.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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And I love answers.
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And Genesis can ham.
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What an amazing ministry and legacy.
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He was just on with us a month ago.
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I just love what he's done and the work that he's done there and the the arc encounter,
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the creation, teaching biblical history, true world history and the biblical world view.
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And Genesis 1 to 11.
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That's right.
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I love it.
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I love it.
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I love it.
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He focuses on that.
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God's word, not man's word.
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So Doreen, before we jump into the topic today and warm about certain meditation, apps,
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practices and Bible apps, things like that, you're still doing the podcast, new age to
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new heart with Jack Merino Chen.
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And where?
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Oh, Jen.
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Jen needs them.
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My goodness.
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She's been on here twice.
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And I just blanked.
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Sorry, Jen, if you're watching, that's not to be taken personally.
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So I'm looking at some of the recent things you've talked about, fallen angels of the
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new age, why self-help doesn't heal, spirit, animals and guides exposed, just different
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things and reincarnation and past lives.
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You cover a lot of topics.
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But as you said, Doreen, a lot of them fall under the occult, new age, demonic spirits,
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and you've got to warn people.
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You guys have different backgrounds, you can all contribute to this.
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So just tell us, you know, how it seems like the podcast is going very well and you're
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reaching a lot of people.
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We are so blessed that God is using us to warn people about new age based on our sinful
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past.
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That's, you know, part of our redemption is that God can use what you've been through
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to warn others.
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Amen.
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We are a corporate insiders.
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And as you said, David, we come from slightly different backgrounds, Jack came out of the
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occult, Freemasonry, the Golden Dawn, and Jan was a private practice psychic medium.
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And then I was a new age teacher who did psychic readings from the stage and on media.
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And so the three of us were like best friends.
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We text and call each other like all day, all day, every day.
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So this is something that's near and dear to our heart.
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And we are very encouraged that God is using the podcast to convict people who may not even
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realize their dabbling and a dangerous new age practices.
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So let's go into the topic today, Christian meditation apps.
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And you know, I'm sure you would agree on some of these.
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You've got to put the word, the name Christian and air quotes when you say Christian meditation
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apps.
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The one that's marketed out there that we've seen is Jonathan Rumi of the chosen hollow.
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Is it that what it's called?
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Yeah.
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The hollow.
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It's the number one Roman Catholic app.
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And Jonathan Rumi is using his fame as portraying, I'm going to say it, a false Jesus on the chosen
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TV show because it's not our biblical Jesus, our Lord and Savior.
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He's portraying Jesus who is very, very portrayed in a way that emphasizes his humanity and
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de emphasizes his divinity, unfortunately.
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But he's Roman Catholic himself and he is promoting this app that if you, I actually downloaded
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it to really get inside the mechanisms of it and it invites you to pray with Mother Mary.
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Now Mother Mary, we know as the earthly mother of our Lord and Savior, she has to be revered,
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but she's not our intercessor.
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She's not someone we pray to.
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First Timothy 2.5 is crystal clear that Jesus is our only mediator between humanity and
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our Father God.
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Not angels, not archangels, not spirit guides, not Mary or any so-called saint or dead person.
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Ephesians says that deceased humans cannot hear us.
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So as much as we revere Mary as blessed among women, she is a human.
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And so she's a deceased human and she's not someone who's intercessing for our prayers.
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We can't twist the wedding of Cana to say that she's the one who can deliver requests
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to her son.
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Jesus is with us always until the end of time as believers and he is our mediator.
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He's our high priest.
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Amen.
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There is one God and one mediator between God and man.
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And that mediator is capital M, Jesus.
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So before we go on, I just feel like I want to say something about the chosen.
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By the way, I was watching it early on.
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I don't remember what season it was.
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It may have been one or two, because I wanted to check it out.
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I wanted to be somewhat knowledgeable about what I was talking to with other people.
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But when Jesus had to ask Matthew, what he thought about the sermon on the Mount, when
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he was rehearsing, understand, friends, Jesus is God.
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God was rehearsing for the sermon on the Mount.
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If you watch the chosen, you might remember that episode and there was a big curtain like
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he was about to take the stage and you're thinking, okay, so God didn't know what he wanted
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to communicate.
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He had to run it by Matthew, a man.
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Anyway, there were so many problems.
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You might think we're nitpicking, but read the Bible.
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I think the word of God, that is, it's not like it's a demonic tool, but the even the
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producer and the director says, it's not biblical, it's like 85%.
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They make up the narrative, they make it just like a Hollywood movie.
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They make up dialogue as if, here's what I think Jesus and the disciples would be talking
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about as they walked down the road or whatever.
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So just if you're watching that and it might lure some people in that know nothing about
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God, never read the Bible, it might be good for them.
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But for Christians, we need to be discerning.
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So that's all that I will share there, but let's get to the meditation apps during this
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while I wanted to have you on.
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The first one you did a recent video, you mentioned Dwell.
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What is that?
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It's obviously popular enough for you to feel like you needed to warn people about.
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Yeah, I'm an administrator, David, in a support group, a free private support group on Facebook
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for people who've been saved out of the new age.
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And some people who've got loved ones in the new age and they want support.
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And it's called from new age to Jesus.
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And we get a lot of questions about these meditation apps because let's face it, you know
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more than anybody, David, that this, the news these days, it can make you uptight and anxious
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and afraid unless you remember that God sovereign.
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And so people naturally want an outlet for their anxiety and meditation is mentioned in
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the Bible.
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And let's dive into what that means briefly before we continue.
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So we want to go to Psalm 12, which says, but his delight is in the law of the Lord.
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And on his law, he meditates day and night.
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And then let's jump over to Joshua one eight.
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This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day
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and night.
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So at this point, they're talking about the Pentateuch, aren't they?
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The first five books of Moses, the law.
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And so the word meditate in these two passages is in Hebrew.
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And it can be transliterated to Haga, Haga means literally to mutter or utter out loud.
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So it's saying mutter or utter out loud, the law, the scripture.
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It's really talking about reading scripture and saying it out loud as you're reading it.
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That's very different that when I came out of I was a new age meditation teacher for
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two decades in the new age, tragically, I think some of my old meditations are still
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out there.
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Please do not listen to them.
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They are demonic doctrines.
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But the new age meditation based on Eastern philosophy of trying to empty your mind, lots
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of mindfulness is another where you're just supposed to non-judgmentally notice your
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mind, notice your thoughts.
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That's absolutely the opposite of Jesus.
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And what the Bible teaches to take every thought captive to renew your mind through scripture.
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And also that Jesus taught us in the Sermon of the Mount since you mentioned that our
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sinful thoughts are equivalent to sinful actions.
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So all of these new age meditation methods are, they're falling under the category, David,
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of contemplative monastic mysticism.
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So the founders of the dwell app are twin brothers who come from Anglican faith.
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And one of them works for Richard Foster.
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Some of you may know that name, Richard Foster was one of the early, I'm going to say it
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false teachers of twisting scripture to incorporate new age and Eastern meditation methods into
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his teachings.
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And so Richard Foster is one to be marked and avoided for sure.
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But this whole dwell app is based on Richard Foster's contemplative movement.
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And they have taken these early church aesthetics that were wandering through the desert.
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They're called desert fathers, women and women, sometimes desert fathers and mothers.
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But they were monks and a lot of these practices were created by Roman Catholic monks.
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And so in the dwell app, you find these Roman Catholic monastic mysticism practices.
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Primarily, lacto divina, lacto divina can sound like it must be biblical because it asks
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you to read the Bible.
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So that's biblical.
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Read the Bible.
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What's wrong with that?
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But it's asking you to read the Bible and contemplate on it.
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That's biblical.
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We're supposed to chew on scripture.
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But then the part that that veers and is so spiritually dangerous is asking you to ask
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God for kind of an ethereal commentary on what you just read.
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Now the Holy Spirit will eliminate the Bible.
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He's the author of the Bible after all.
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He will use the Bible to remind you what Jesus taught to convict you your sins, to give
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you wisdom, et cetera, all those are biblical.
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But when people say that God is telling them private personal revelation through lacto
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divina of what this passage means, that is spiritually dangerous.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, that's when, you know, let me go back real quick, empty your mind.
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Some people go, well, if my mind is all busy and I'm frustrated and there's so much going
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on and commotion, I just want to get those thoughts out.
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What's wrong with meditating and emptying your mind?
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I mean, I know the answer, but share your thoughts on that briefly.
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Yeah.
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Well, you actually named it when you read first John 4.1 at the top of this show, David,
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that is testing the spirits.
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And there are, as we know, we wrestle not against flesh and blood.
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But there's fallen angels, demons, who want to compete with God by deceiving people,
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by counter-fitting what God does, by drawing as many people as possible into their layer
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and hell.
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So when you empty your mind, there's a vacuum and what these demons will try to fill it.
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There's a real, there's a real danger of if you empty your mind and you're trying to get
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a message, quote, and absolute air quotes from God that either your imagination will come
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in or your wishful thinking will come in.
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You'll think God told you to quit your job and divorce your husband and move to Peru and
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open a healing center.
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I mean, people do that.
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They say, well, God told me to do that.
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No, he didn't.
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He would not contradict scripture.
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And so emptying your mind can also leave you vulnerable to demonic messages, masquerading
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as an angel of light, even masquerading as God.
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So we have to be so, so discerning and careful.
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And that's why the Bible, it's the guardrails to keep us from falling into this deception.
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These meditation apps are so dangerous.
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They play this music that's identical to what I, actually my husband, we toured together.
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He was the new age, like keyboard, new age meditation musician at my events.
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And so it's this monotone music that puts you into a trance.
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This is the key to be where any professing Christians listen to this.
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Please heed my, my warning.
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I come from a big background of coming out of deception by God's mercy and grace going
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into trances is where we get into trouble.
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And these meditation apps are designed to put you into that altered state of consciousness,
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which can seem relaxing and it can seem like you're getting messages from God.
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But it's not going to lead to peace because it's not from Christ.
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This is a, this is the spirit of the Antichrist that you read from 1 John 4 of 1.
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So we have to talk about a little bit more about these, some of the things to avoid,
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but also a couple of good ones when we come right back with Doreen Virtue, Doreen Virtue.com
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Our guest today, Doreen Virtue, we're talking about different Bible apps and you can put
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Bible in quotes or Christian meditation.
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And she just explained very clearly about what meditation is and what it isn't, what
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is biblical meditation meditating on the word of God day and night so that you will do
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what is written in it as the scriptures say.
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By the way, I want to go back briefly.
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You had me at Psalm 1, when verse 3 says, when you do this, when your delight is in the
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law of the Lord, when you meditate on the word of God, the law of God day and night, you
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will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water which yields its fruit in its season
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and it goes on.
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A lot of benefits.
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And Jeremiah, I think 18 or 17 or 18 about those who meditate on the word of God being
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firmly planted.
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But back to the apps, I just went to my app store, my phone and it's, I mean, there's
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Bible devotionals, there's Bible apps, there's different versions, there's different names
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and my goodness, we better be discerning Doreen.
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So are there some, before we get into some others to really avoid, I see dwell coming
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up.
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Are there one or two that you can recommend before we go back and warn about a couple
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of others?
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Absolutely.
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My favorite app for Christians is the ESV, English standard version, free, absolutely
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free.
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These meditation apps are expensive, I should add.
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But the free app ESV Bible app, you can download it on the Google Play and also the Apple
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app store, the iOS app store.
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My husband and I listen to this every night.
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It has an audio feature and it also has a timer.
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So you can set the timer to play a half hour as you're falling asleep.
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I listen to it when I'm driving, it's so relaxing to listen to the Bible.
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My favorite, there's a lot of different voices that you can choose from.
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Some of the voices are of teacher, I guess I could call them false.
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So be careful with that one.
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The man named David Cochrane Keith has such a pleasant voice.
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Some of you who listen to Ligonier will recognize it because they play that app on the
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brakes on Ligonier radio.
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And you want to renew your mind with Scripture.
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I find David that when I'm listening to the Bible, I hear things that I often missed
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while reading that same passage.
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Yup.
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And faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
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It's a good thing to read.
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And then to hear, when you hear the Word of God, like your preacher, your pastor at church,
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I was just scrolling on.
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I got to show you this one.
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This is really interesting, pray.com.
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Pray.
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It's got what TD Jakes is on there.
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Also James Earl Jones who's probably not even a believer I'm guessing and others.
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But if that's a Christian meditation and sleep, Dorian, I'm sure you would warn about
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that one.
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There it is right there.
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So go ahead and share about either that or any others that you have in mind.
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Yeah.
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So you can see right there in that app, David, that it advertises that he reads the Bible.
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Well, go to the free ESV or if you don't like that translation on YouTube, there's dozens
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of people reading from the KJV and other translations you can prefer.
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But these apps that the read you the Bible cost a fortune.
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All of us, I think, are kind of stretched right now in the economy.
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And they also mix in just like the devil does.
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Devil mixes in some accuracy, some truth with lies, right?
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So here with the dwell app, again, going back to that.
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So it reads you the Bible and it has it in a calming voice with the transmutation, music
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in the background.
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So that you might think, well, what's wrong with that?
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But then the next page of that app will ask you to do something called centering prayer.
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And again, that's a monastic mystic practice that is asking you to do breath work.
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Breath work is this new trendy thing where it's been done in yoga classes for years.
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I know in Lamas, they did it.
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I did this with the birth of my children.
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But this is where you're supposed to zone out, go into a trance and get messages.
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And that's where we get into trouble.
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That's where we violate first Timothy first, first John four one that you mentioned.
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And we're going to be delving into messages from these spirits that are so happy to deceive
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any professing Christian that can get a hold up.
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It also, it gives you false commentary on the Bible to be involved with these practices.
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It's so easy to go to a Matthew Henry commentary that's for free online and he's solid.
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And instead, these apps are telling you to get your messages from the ethers.
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You're going to be involved in iso Jesus, which is reading and description,
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or what Chris Rosebroke calls a narso Jesus, like narcissists, where you read yourself into the story.
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They actually left you a divina is based.
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And this is a Roman Catholic method that is highly emphasized in a lot of these so-called Christian meditation apps.
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Lectio divina asks you to imagine yourself in the story of the Bible.
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I mean, there might be some value with that, but you could keep going with that.
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And then all of a sudden, you're David killing Goliath in your mind.
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And you're not.
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That's right.
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Oh my goodness, really quick Doreen, you mentioned the emptying the mind.
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You mentioned the breathing practices.
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There's so much we have to be careful of friends.
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But briefly, what about chanting?
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Because even if you chant Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, just saying a word over and over and over again,
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on the surface, that sounds well, maybe benign, maybe innocent.
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But there's more to it than that.
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It ends up in this kind of trans state.
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So I'm sure you're concerned about that as well.
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Yeah.
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And our Lord asked us to not be involved with repetitive prayer, like the pagans are.
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And that's just not trusting God.
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We need to trust in the Lord with all of our heart and not lean in our own understanding.
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Trust that God's sovereign, we don't need these gimmicks.
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We don't in our economy need to be spending our family's food budget on something that's
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going to give you spiritual bondage with these meditation apps.
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Go get the free ESB downloadable app.
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I've been listening to it for seven years now.
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It's really helped to reduce spiritual warfare in our household.
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It's helped just putting on the armor of God.
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And it's so relaxing to listen to.
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I mean, I wouldn't say listen to the book of judges while you're falling asleep,
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but you know, something like, we like the book of James or Colossians,
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going to the, you know, as you're falling asleep and then as you're driving,
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it's so calming.
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I can't emphasize God's word is, is a gift to us that we need to be immersing ourselves
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in day and night.
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So we didn't get as many apps as I would like, and I want to ask you something
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about a post that you did on Facebook recently.
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But do you know of a source of recommended apps for discerners,
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for biblical Christians that do you know of any source like that?
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That there needs to be something like that out there if there's not actually
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that's something that I want to put together.
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I've got a, I've got a list of discernment ministries where people can avoid
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false teachings, but you're right.
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We need to have a list of the recommended as well.
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So we, I mean, I thought about that because as I just pulled up my iPhone and
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saw how many apps are available.
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I'm going, well, my goodness, how do you know how many of these are legit?
25:48
But back to your Facebook page on, you mentioned yoga and some people are
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very sensitive about this because you can do a chapel yoga at some Christian
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churches and things like that.
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But you shared an explanation of why yoga is what you say an unredeemable
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pagan worship practice.
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You say stretching is fine, but we need to avoid yoga.
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And there's an X Hindu that posted and he says, I don't know who needs to hear
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this, but Hinduism and what we know today as yoga is inseparable.
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So if you think you're just stretching and you said, so briefly during,
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we only have a minute and a half, but just a few very brief words of caution
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about yoga.
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Yeah.
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Well, we can't put Bible verses on a Ouija board and say that it's a Christian
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Ouija board.
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And none of the so-called sports have the word Christian or holy or gospel
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or chapel in front of them because you don't need to say that about swimming or
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baseball, it's only yoga because God wrote his laws in our heart.
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And we know deep down that yoga is violating the first two commandments.
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No other gods and no graven images.
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Yoga literally is twisting your body into a graven image to mimic one of the
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330 million Hindu deities.
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It is not some is not just stretching, it is bondage.
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And I understand that a lot of people maybe some, not maybe a very small number
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or maybe to this podcast.
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I think, well, wait a minute.
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I'm not even thinking that one.
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I'm stretching or doing these things.
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But what you said is very important there.
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You're mimicking these Hindu deities when you're doing these positions.
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Be very careful.
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Be discerning.
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Read the word of God, Doreen.
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I'll send people to new age, to new heart, your podcast.
27:28
Very important.
27:29
A lot of great voices and a lot of good information that you guys share.
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Also your YouTube channel at Doreen Virtue.
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Just thank you so much for all you do.
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May God continue.
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To use you and your voice to enlarge your territory.
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So thank you again.
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Thank you very much.
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God bless everyone.
27:46
All right.
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Thanks, Doreen.
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All right, guys, DoreenVirtue.com.
27:50
Just so much more that we could talk about what we've, we've got to run until next time.
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God bless you.
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And as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.