Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Todd Hampson: Imminency, Inerrancy, & The Rapture Controversy

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Todd Hampson: Imminency, Inerrancy, & The Rapture Controversy · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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defending biblical Christianity, no topic, off limits.
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And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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Hey brothers and sisters in Christ, thank you so much for tuning in, watching, listening,
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and sharing the podcast.
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We're going to talk about a brand new book, I mean, ah, ooh, it's hot.
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It's hot off the presses.
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This is like brand new just out from our brother Todd Hampson.
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It is called the non-profits guide to the rapture, uh-oh, the R word.
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I don't know why it's controversial, but we're going to talk a little bit about that with
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Todd, an author, illustrator, animated producer, podcaster with Jeff Kinley.
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Brother, thanks for your time today and congrats on the brand new book.
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Thank you so much.
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It's always, always fun to join you, it's like just getting together with an old friend
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and talking about some topics we love, so thanks for having me on.
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And it's interesting, um, that you wrote this book and, and, and I'm sure you put a lot
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in there that, I mean, I have it here and it's just packed, jam packed.
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But it's interesting that it's stuff that we took for granted, maybe 50 years ago, that
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the body of Christ was up to speed on, but now that it's a controversy, um, before I ask
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you a question about your recent trip, talk about why you think it's controversial today,
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the rapture?
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You know, there's several things I think that are under attack right now from the enemy
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and the best way for the enemy to attack is to do it subversively by eroding the, the
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things in our doctrine and churches that we once held dear and, and once was common knowledge.
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Uh, as soon as you water down in air and sea or you, you, you dump everything down to the
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least common denominator, knowing that when it comes to the rapture is, and at, many
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other end time events, uh, that there's, there's, there's disagreement.
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There's different points of view, so people have just thrown the baby out with the bathwater
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and stopped teaching about it all together.
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And I think that's, uh, that's by design by the enemy, the closer we get to the Lord's
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return, the less he wants us to know about the Lord's return and the less he wants us to
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look for our blessed hope, where the bride, he's the bridegroom.
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One day he promised he's coming back to whisk the bride away to carry her away and that
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used to be a common knowledge in churches and in Christian circles.
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Now it's under attack from many, many angles, and that's the primary reason I wrote this
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book.
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Yeah, that's interesting.
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You, you said that because one of the quotes I was going to share, and I'm going to do
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that right now, um, is throughout church history, Satan's twofold attack on Christians has
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been through persecution from the outside and false teaching from within.
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And along with those lines with the false teaching is the suppressing of inerrancy and
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key, like core teachings, the, the essentials of the faith.
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So the church, we're in a very confused state and a show I just did recently, we're talking
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about, you know, George Barnard and some of the work that the church, things that the
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church believes, it's like, wow, how did we get here?
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But that's for another podcast, Todd, before we dive into the book and talk a little bit
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more about the non-profits guide to the rapture.
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You recently went to Israel.
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I saw a Facebook post of you and Jeff Kinley with ambassador to Israel, Governor Mike
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Huckabee, and that's on your Facebook page.
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You sat down with a podcast, and by the way, friends, that's over at prophecyprozpodcast.com.
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If you want to listen to that prophecyprozpodcast.com.
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So tell us about your Israel trip and, and of course, part, just give us a couple nuggets
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on the interview with Mike Huckabee.
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Yeah, sure thing.
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And by the way, they can, there's a YouTube link on that site as well.
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They can watch it or listen to it, whichever they prefer.
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But yeah, it was, and that we, we were trying to land that because we knew we'd be in his
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neck of the woods, so to speak, and that he was, he loved Israel and was there for a reason
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and God has sovereignly placed him here at this time.
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So kind of at the last minute, everything came together for us to be able to do the interview
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and get through all the security and all that fun stuff.
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But he's just a down to earth guy.
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He's a pastor at heart.
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The Lord is using him in that role at a critical time, like no other.
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So yeah, go check that interview out to get the full download of that.
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But, but our trip to Israel in general was amazing.
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Of course, we went in the winter.
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We knew that was a little risky because it's the, you know, it's a little chillier, but
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also it's the rainy season.
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So we actually wound up with only one rainy day out of seven or eight days.
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And even then it didn't stop us.
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We were, we recorded so many videos and saw so many sites.
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And just briefly, some of the takeaways for me were kind of twofold.
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One, just the, the spiritual nature of, you know, being on the Mount of Olives, where
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Jesus ascended from and where he's going to set his feet down, walking on the, the
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southern steps up to the three gates where Jesus and the disciples definitely would have
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walked.
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Going up to Capernaum and the Sea of Galilee and seeing Peter's mother-in-law's house
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where they lowered the paralytic to, to be healed by Jesus.
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I mean, these are known places and you just literally get goose bumps and you can sense
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the Holy Spirit there just, just knowing that Jesus, that was the source of the base
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of his ministry.
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There up north of Jerusalem.
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And then the other thing that really struck me was how there's a collision of archaeological
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discoveries and fulfilled Bible prophecy.
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And what I mean by that is, for example, one really clear example that is standing next
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to the two-toned, two-twenty thousand-toned stones that were pushed off the Temple Mount
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on the Western Wall, that Jesus prophesied in Matthew 24, not one stone will be left
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on this Mount.
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You know, in 70 AD, the armies had tied us through all those off.
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And those were buried, by the way, until after Israel had control of Jerusalem.
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So that wasn't excavated until the early 70s and they had to halt tons of dirt away.
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And here lying beneath at the whole time is visible archaeological proof of fulfilled
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Bible prophecy.
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But that's a clear example of that.
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But we saw tons of examples of that from Hezekiah's tunnel to a Canaanite tunnel, the city
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of David.
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I mean, literally, you're walking through history where there's so much history there
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from four or five thousand years ago, all the way up to the present day.
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And there's open archaeological digs everywhere.
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There's so much there that they can't even catalog it fast enough.
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And anywhere you dig, you're going to bump into history.
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So those are kind of the two, the spiritual side and then the apologetics and fulfilled
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prophecy side really just struck me the whole time we were there.
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Isn't that amazing that that that's that hugely shouts about the evidence or the accuracy
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of the Bible and of scripture archaeology?
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I mean, there's so much proof that the Bible is accurate about what it's what's contained
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in it when it comes to people, places, events throughout world history and people just
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don't want to look at that, especially predictions fulfilled prophecy.
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There's just so much.
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So I think Todd, it is a matter of the heart and the will.
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Some people just don't want to believe it's not that there's not enough evidence, there's
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not that not enough reason that they could believe in Jesus that what the Bible teaches
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is true.
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I think they just want to be their own God and live their own life.
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And that's sad.
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I want to ask you real quick about the stones because Jesus did say that when they
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the disciples were marveling at the big buildings in the temple, how do they get the massive
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stones down?
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Because they were, you said, I mean, they were, they weigh tons, right?
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Yeah, they do.
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Yeah, some of them, some of them 2000s up to 20,000 tons.
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So I'm not sure to be honest with you, but when you look at the construction and we actually
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went to on a tunnel underneath the ground in ancient Roman tunnel, the pilgrims weigh
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that was a whole other thing, but we went through a drainage tunnel, a room and drainage
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tunnel that comes up right by the southwestern corner of the temple mount.
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And you're looking at how did they dig into bedrock?
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How did they move these massive stones?
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So they had some kind of technology at that time, some way to leverage that, whether
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it was manpower or somehow they had the ingenuity to be able to scrape it clean.
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And from what I understand, one of the main reasons they did that was when the temple
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was set ablaze, all the gold in the temple melted down through the cracks of all the
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rocks.
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So they moved every rock off to get all that gold and also just to desecrate the temple.
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So they pushed it all off.
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And literally you can see where those stones hit the 2000 year old room and pavement and
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cracked it.
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It's kind of like this.
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But all of that for sure, Jesus and the disciples would have walked on that path right
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there.
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And walking on holy grounds and you're going back 2000 plus years in time and walking
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on this holy ground, it's just, you can't, if you can, if you get a chance to go, I had
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a seminary professor that always said, you don't have to pray about it.
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If you can go, it is God's will for you to go to Israel.
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And I highly recommend it for anybody that can make it happen.
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So Todd, let's stay there for a moment because this also applies to your book, the nonprofits
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guide to the rapture.
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Let's talk about John 14 briefly because that was one of Jesus' teachings.
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Do not let your heart be troubled.
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Trust in God.
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Trust also in me.
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And my father's house are many mansions or many rooms if it were not.
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So I would have told you, and then he said, I'm going there to prepare a place for you.
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And if I go to prepare a place for you, I will come back and get you so that you can
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be where I am.
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I just paraphrase that basically that where I am, there you may also be.
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So talk to us a little bit about that because that goes right in line with the teaching
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on the rapture.
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It really does.
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And details matter.
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And this is why you and I both cited the fact that it all goes back to an erancy.
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Either the entire Bible is the word of God down to the every nuance of every word, or
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it's not.
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I believe it is.
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And I believe those nuances matter and the details matter.
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And like you said, he said, I'm going, he even said, when I come, I'm going to come
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again to receive you to myself, even the language he used mimics the rapture.
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Now this was before Paul gave every detail of the rapture when he was revealed the mystery
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of the rapture, but this is clearly rapture language.
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And when Jesus was talking to his 12 disciples there, they would have immediately known he
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was referring to the Jewish wedding traditions where the groom would pay a lot, a great price
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to be, or actually the father would pay a great price for the groom to be engaged to the
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bride.
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Jesus, you know, he gave his one and only son, Jesus paid the ultimate price for this engagement.
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That's a legal binding agreement.
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It's as permanent as marriage, but then he has to go back to the father's house to build
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an addition on the father's house for the bride.
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And then at an unknown time, known only to the father, when the father sees that that addition
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is ready and he thinks the groom is ready and that the bride is ready, he sends the groom
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to go fetch your bride, go get your bride at an announced time.
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Then the groomsman comes with his wedding party announcing his coming, just like we read
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about in 2 Thessalonians 4 with the trumpet and the shout of the angel and all that.
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Then the groom would literally whisk the bride off of her feet and carry her on this instrument
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called a Cretuba and lift her up off the ground and carry her back to the father's house
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so she could be where he is in the father's house.
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It fits perfectly with the rapture.
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It's 100% intentional and his disciples would have known exactly what he was talking about
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when he said that.
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Wow.
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Wow.
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Wow.
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Okay.
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I've got so many questions in my head, Todd.
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I'm thinking about your book.
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I'm thinking about Israel and your trip and what you mentioned, but you mentioned the
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Mount of Olives.
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Is it Zechariah that says Jesus, his feet will touch down or stand on the Mount of Olives?
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So, differentiate for us the rapture, the catching up of believers to Jesus return because
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that's not happening at the same time, right?
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Those are two separate events.
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That's right.
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Those are two separate events, you're absolutely right.
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And honestly, that's where a lot of the confusion comes in because many believers who, and actually
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some theological systems that want to simplify everything or amalgamate everything, see those
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two things as the same event, the rapture and the return.
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But when you look at them side by side, they literally can't be.
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The rapture, he's coming for the bride to rescue the bride, the return, he's literally
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coming for judgment and that passage in Zechariah, he touches his feet down on the Mount
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of Olives and it splits into, and I mean, it's all kinds of crazy stuff happening.
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But that's the moment when he, that's the actual physical return.
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So the rapture happens at least, well, more than seven years before that moment when his
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feet touch down on the Mount of Olives.
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And there's a lot of pieces to put together here, but basically, basing, basing all of that
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on Daniel chapter nine, it's Daniel's 70th week, all throughout the Old Testament we're
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given the Old Testament prophets and other places in the Psalms.
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Talk about this future time of God's active judgment on evil in the world as a time period.
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But we're not given the time period for that until we get to Daniel chapter nine and that's
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where we find that that's a seven year period.
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But then when we look at other details, we learn that the anti-Christ can't rise and these
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things can't be put in place.
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The judgments don't start until after the bride is removed.
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God's pattern of rescue and even in the Old Testament with the flood and with the judgment
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of Sodom and Gomorrah is he always, he always rescues the righteous first before having to
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judge the world.
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And even in judgment, by the way, there's grace available.
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We find in the book of Revelation in the early phases of the first set of judgments that
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there's a massive multitude of people who have given their life to the Lord and basically
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realize, oh, those crazy Christians were right.
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The rapture was real and also the witness of the 144,000 and the two witnesses.
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Now, but there's a massive revival in the early phases of the tribulation period.
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So even in the midst of wrath, there's grace.
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But when Jesus returns and I'm kind of bringing all this together, we go up with him at
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the rapture that officially ends the church age.
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There's some things we do in heaven which that would take a long time to unpack but some
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really important things, including the wedding itself.
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Then we're not, we're not seen again, the word church is used 19 times in Revelation
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one through three, not at all during any of the judgments, but then we're seen, the church
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is seen returning with the Lord in Revelation 19 when he comes down to destroy the enemies
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and it's at that time when he puts his feet on the Mount of Olives.
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So yeah.
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Thank you.
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Interesting.
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Well, you condensed that kudos, Todd.
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So friends, we have to take a brief pause, the website todhampson.com.
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The book is on Amazon.
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You can get it.
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They're also making sure to check out prophecyprozpodcast.com.
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You know, part of me wants to talk a little bit more about Daniel 9, but when we come back,
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I do want to ask Todd why he thinks the rapture is kind of falling out of style and too
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many churches do not teach about it.
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We'll be right back on World View Matters.
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So, Harbinger's Daily.
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So, Todd Hampson, why do you think the rapture, I don't know if the right word is it's
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falling out of style because it wasn't really in style, but at least it was top more in
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the Christian churches.
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Maybe it's an American thing.
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I don't know.
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Tell us what happened and what your thoughts on that.
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Yeah, I think, you know, obviously in the 1970s with the Jesus Movement and how Lindsey's
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book, Great Planet Earth, there was a lot of rapture talk and it was taught more broadly.
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Then it kind of, it ebbs and flows.
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Then it kind of died down somewhat, but it was still taught.
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It was still accepted as, you know, solid, bonafide Bible doctrine.
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And then of course in the 90s with the left behind series and Tim LaHae and all that,
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it became popularized in pop culture, like even non-Christians knew at that point what
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the rapture was and all that kind of stuff.
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But also during that same era, some people sensationalized it a bit too much or picking
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dates for the Lord's return, which we're explicitly told not to do.
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That's the whole idea of the rapture, like I said with the Jewish wedding tradition, is
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that the Lord, the groom could come at any moment and we need to always be ready.
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And also in the other side of that same pendulum swing I think is scoffers and the Bible
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predicts that that in the last days there would be scoffers.
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And when you look at it carefully, there's some indication that those scoffers are not
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just outside the church, but within the church, you know, didn't our fathers, hasn't everything
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been the same since our fathers fell asleep.
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So there's some indication that that's from the church and we also learn about in the
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end times there's a great falling away, a great apostasy where doctrine is not taught anymore.
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So I think all these things are honestly what we should expect and our reasons that it's
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gone out of favor.
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And I think another huge aspect to it is that because there are different views on the
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timing of the rapture, and by the way, your salvation is not based on what you believe
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about the timing of the rapture, I have great brothers and sisters in Christ that hold different
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views, mid-tribbed post-tribbed.
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I think the Bible, and I argue for it heavily in this book, really has it thoroughly supports
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a pre-tribbed rapture from every possible angle you could look at.
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It's not a salvation issue, but because of that, there's been some infighting and stuff
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like that.
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So some churches have just said, you know what, I don't want the drama, I don't want
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to have to deal with the arguments, and I'm not even going to talk about it.
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So a lot of pulpits will not address it, and then that drifts back into Bible colleges
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and seminaries, a lot of Bible colleges and seminaries don't tackle it on a deep level.
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So I think part of the reason for this book is to help reclaim that, to show people that
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it's thoroughly biblical, and it's something that every believer should look into and study
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for themselves.
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And it's even called our blessed hope.
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It's the thing that we're supposed to anchor to in this church age, no matter if we're
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facing persecution, as many believers are around the world, or just the hardships of
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life.
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It's the thing that gives us hope that we're anchored to something promised, and that the
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groom is one day coming to fetch the bride.
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Amen, brother, and that hope is an anchor to our souls.
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So thank you, by the way, great illustrations in the book, as always, Todd Hampson.
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But you thank you for going through the pre-trib view, the mid-trib, the pre-rath.
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Then you talk about omelinealism, post-millennial, post-tribulation, pan-millennialism.
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So thank you.
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Well, the real view, please stand up.
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I love that.
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What I wanted to ask you, since we're running out of time, I wanted to get this question
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out.
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You list five key end time indicators that show we are probably likely nearing the end.
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Can you give us a little taste of what those are?
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Yeah, you know, 20 or 30 years ago, you would have to really look for some things.
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There were some developments, but now they're in our face every single day, if you look
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for them.
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And kind of some of those five key things are the push towards globalism, the fact that
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there are many, many organizations around the world that are pushing for a global government
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that are more interconnected than we've ever been before.
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Some of that's due to technology, some of that's due to philosophy.
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But you see how many globalist entities are pushing for no borders, and we're all one,
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and all this kind of stuff.
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Well, that's what's prophesied for the end times.
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After the rapture, before the Antichrist can rise, there's going to be a global government
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loosely held with 10 leaders, and he comes up out of that group and overtakes three.
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So the fact we're seeing this global push for global government, I mean, in COVID era,
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it came out on steroids.
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It was out in the open for the first time.
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It was no longer conspiracy theory, but it was actually conspiracy happening right before
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our eyes.
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The other thing, and this is key, Israel.
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Israel is the epicenter of Bible prophecy.
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All of the Old Testament prophets, except for Jonah, said Israel had to be a nation again
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in the last days.
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Jesus affirms that in Matthew 24, when we read about Israel in the book of Revelation,
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Israel's there, the Jewish people are there.
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So all these things, Israel had to become a nation again in fulfilling a prophecy and
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to lay the groundwork for end times events.
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So all things Israel, including, by the way, the global rise of intense anti-Semitism.
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Literally, there's never been this much anti-Semitism globally at any time in history.
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It's usually been in pockets or where the Jewish people are trying to survive and they're
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mistreated.
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Now it's global and from all different angles.
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So that's another key one.
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And there's more of the technology that's happening right now.
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And the biggest thing is the convergence, the fact that we're seeing all of these things,
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the groundwork being laid for everything we read about is happening right now.
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When Jesus came with the first coming, we're told that he came in the fullness of time.
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And that meant, in terms of fulfilling prophecy, but also, I believe, things like the Roman
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road system had to be in place.
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Coenay Greek had to be common and used everywhere so that the gospel could go out quickly.
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Well, the same thing happens with his return, but the second coming, the rapture and the
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return, that prophecy doesn't happen in a vacuum.
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There has to be developments that take place that we can witness based on Hebrews 10, 25,
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where we can see the day approaching.
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So those of us who are studying Scripture and then looking at the world will see the
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day approaching.
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We'll see the groundwork being laid for everything we read about that's going to happen in the
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end times, including things that are happening in Israel now, right?
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Not just anti-Semitism worldwide, but events that are happening in Israel too, hastening
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these the end times.
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Yeah, one of the places we visited was the Temple Institute.
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I remember when I first became a believer that, and I heard that there's going to be sacrifices
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that there's going to be a temple again in the end times.
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I was like, who does that now?
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That's so ancient and archaic.
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And, you know, who does that?
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Well, you have the Temple Institute is literally training priests to be ready to re-institute
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sacrifices.
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They've built out all the utensils, they've trained the priests, they're always looking
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for these red heifers to be the first one that will purify it.
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All kinds of stuff related to that that we could go into, but there's a desire to be
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on the Temple Mount.
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By the way, Daniel 9, there's some indication there that the future Antichrist will not
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only confirm or push over the finish line a peace treaty that's already on the table between
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Israel and other nations, but also he'll strengthen it or add to it, which many people
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speculate.
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That means he's going to broker something that allows them to rebuild the Temple exactly
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what they want to do right now.
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Fascinating.
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I'm glad you brought that up.
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I remember a couple of years ago, the Texas made headlines for flying out from some
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red heifers to Israel spotless, but maybe they weren't spotless.
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Anyway, Todd, we got to wrap it up in a few minutes here.
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Friends in the book, Todd also gets into top 10 reasons to believe in a pre-trib rapture.
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He backs that up with a lot of scripture and also early believers.
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Early believers, they actually were convinced that the return of Christ was imminent.
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We lost a little bit of that now, especially in the American, the comfortable American
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church, but I want to close by giving you a chance to talk about prophecy prose academy
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because you refer to eschatology, the doctrine of the last things, as part of Paul's quote,
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new believers 101.
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What do you mean by that?
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Yes.
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Paul, when he was in Thessalonica, training those believers, he was only there for three
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or four weeks.
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It says he was there for three Sabbaths, then he got run out of town.
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What we find is from the letters, first and second Thessalonians, that he taught them
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all about the end times.
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These were brand-new believers, so of course he taught them all the things about salvation
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and how to live a godly life, but he wanted them to know the end of the story.
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Nobody goes to their favorite movie and walks out three quarters of the way through and
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just says, oh, I don't really care how it ends.
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We naturally want to know how the story ends and we're in the story.
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We taught them that from the get-go and that's what we do with the prophecy prose academy
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is.
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It's a 12 module study.
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The final four modules are all eschatology related, but the first eight are all critical things
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from bibliology, hermeneutics, satireology, all these big theological words that may be
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foreign to most people, but you'll know them like the back of your hand and all of that
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gives a strong base to understand the final four all about eschatology, so people can
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properly understand the end of the story.
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Oh, brother, thank you guys.
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You and Jeff Kinley teaming up, I'm not idolizing you.
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I was going to say it was sent from heaven, but yes, it is a god thing.
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He definitely orchestrated that because you are benefiting the body of Christ.
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You're teaching.
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You're ministering to a lot of people.
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Thank you for this latest book in the series, The Non-Profits Guide to the Rapture Todd
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Hampson.
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It goes by way too fast, but we touched on a lot of things.
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You had to talk a little bit about your trip and glad you're back and you made it back
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safely.
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We'll hear a lot about it in the near future, but friends, make sure you follow these
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men of God.
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Thanks for your time, brother.
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Lord willing, we'll do it again.
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Absolutely.
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Thank you so much.
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You're most welcome, brother.
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All right, Todd Hampson.com, books on Amazon, get it.
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Thank you so much for your support and prayers.
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For us, God bless you and as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.
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See you next time.