Latest / WoT Spoilers / Just Another Man & Veins of Gold & Bathed in Light - The Gathering Storm chapters 49, 50, & epilogue - EP542

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Just Another Man & Veins of Gold & Bathed in Light - The Gathering Storm chapters 49, 50, & epilogue - EP542 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. So, yeah,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: we are here today. We're finishing up with the gathering Storm.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: We've reached Veins of Gold, the epiphany upon the mountaintop,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the allegory at the end of the series, or perhaps
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: the beginning of it. I would say the moment, which
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: I've argued is the actual triumph over the dark One,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: and the rest of it's just semantics, right.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is also one of those moments where you just,
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know, this moment has a very divisive is
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: the wrong word because there's way more than two takes
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: on this moment, But this moment splits a lot of ways.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of people who really don't like Veins
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: of Gold as a resolution to mental health crises, and
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of people who do, and sometimes they
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: are pointing at the exact same things and simply having
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: inverse takes. So it's like there's not one answer. It's
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: just it's a moment that creates a lot of very
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: different takes around mental health and trauma and resolution and stuff.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: I'm willing to have a magical solution to a magical insanity.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but if you've been following along empathizing with him
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: with your real life, non magical insanity. It can create
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: some strange discords. Discords in the lowercase sense, not in
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: the messaging platform sense, just in the literal like harmonious sense, right.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Isn't it crazy that now so many platforms have taken
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: somewhat common use words and turned them into the names
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: of platforms that were like, oh, yeah, that bird tweeted. No,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: it just made a noise. It didn't send out a
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: message on Twitter, right, Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you have
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: to clarify when you say discord, you're not meaning the platform.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: You have to Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: But it's just I've noticed a lot of people being like,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I was really vibing with Rand's mental health issues right
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: up until he got magically fixed, and then it kind
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: of all fell apart and I felt weird afterwards, And yeah,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: because I mean, yeah, econonically, it is a magic problem.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: But like when you've spent a huge part of your
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: teenagehood holding onto these books as a lifeline, it can
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: create some strange feelings when that's the resolution or not.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: For some people it was really powerful for their real
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: life stuff.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: For me, it was right because I feel like for
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: me at least, the idea of sort of having two
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: sides of yourself that you're able to reconcile, right like,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I think that is powerful. It's also something that I've
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: seen over and over and over again in fantasy, because
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: the voice in your head who gives you knowledge and
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: you later merge with or later becomes part of you
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: is such a trope in fantasy. Look at Rastlin and
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: visitandanthalis just as like one older example, I think of
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: a couple more I think this one. Richard Knack wrote
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: a series in which someone gets knowledge from his ancestor,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: like his grandfather inhibits him. I can think of a
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: sci fi version of it by Alistair Reynolds where that happens.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Right Like, The idea that an ancestor of yours or
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: some older person who acquired knowledge merges into the younger
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: person gives them that knowledge and that's what lets them
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: overcome Dark City was basically that, except they imprinted memories
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: instead of another personality. Right. The merger of those of
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: an experience being with a young personality is such a
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: fantasy trope. Then, I feel like I saw it coming
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: from so far away, and for me when I read this,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: it was a finally, it was a like, Okay, now
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: we have the promise of the dragon who is reborn. Yeah,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: and he is the leader to fight the last battle, right,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: and it's been prophesied and you know, used in so
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: many other bits of media that this this to me
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: was that to me, the integration is less the interesting part.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: To me, it's the interesting part about deciding not to
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: destroy the world. To me, that's where the crux of
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: this series comes down to. And like his reasoning behind
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: that and his decision, which you know, again it's fantasy, right,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: love saves the world? Right, The answer is love. Of course,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: the answer is love. Right, It's either choice or love
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: and the and this is you get to choose love, right,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: that's the whole point.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think for me, by the time I got
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: to this, it was I had read so many books
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: where love is the answer that I was like, really
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: that that you couldn't have noticed that sooner? Like I
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: thought that was kind of like save the world one
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: oh one. I don't know, I was kind of expecting
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: something a little more complicated, just because that's always the punchline.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: It just felt a little like, I mean, it works
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: it's satisfying it was set up, but I was I
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: was expecting a slightly more esoteric, intellectual twist on top
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: of that. I don't know, I just there was something
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: missing from it for me, just I think just because
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: every other book I'd ever read ends with love is
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: the answer, Like I was expecting more.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: From Wheel of Time, right, right, right.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: It might have not been fair of me. Maybe, I
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: I completely agree with you there, And I think that
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: the fact there's two more books is the testament to
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: what more there is a lot of other series would
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: end here.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Right yeah, yeah.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so but I agree, I agree that that this
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: is the constant who would have written a better Jordan
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: or Sanderson?
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Are there scenes the battles where I think that I
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: really love that Sanderson wrote those? Yeah? Absolutely, stuff like this,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: the moral questions, I feel like Jordan wrote them better
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: because he didn't give you as many answers.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was something I wanted to bring up too.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Was like, this feels like such a pivotal moment for
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: the whole series, like it was always being built up to.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Jordan clearly had been writing towards it for a long time,
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: and yet the handling of it just feels entirely Sanderson,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: and like, I feel like that also loses something like
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Jordan might have had some more sneaky thoughts to put
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: in at the edges that Sanderson just couldn't possibly. I
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: don't know if that's just me projecting, but I feel
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: like there's very little Jordan in this other than I've
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: been spending thirteen books building up to this moment.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: I think the shortness of these chapters attests to that
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: as well. I don't think Sanderson. I think Sanderson wanted
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: to embellish as little as possible from what he had,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: and so like it's really I think what he got
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: was a very bare bones outline of this chapter, and
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: he fleshed out that outline as little as possible.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, I would be terrified to write this scene
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: with his few notes as he clearly had. Yeah you
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: know you you see what I'm building too, you write it.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, right, right right. So that's because these are
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: these are some of the shortest three chapters in this book,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: in any of Sanderson's books that he writes, right, these
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: chapters are Bam bam bam, right, one, two, three, and
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: the third ones. You know, Agwayne reacting. His whole thing
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: is like what six pages for two chapters something like that.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: It's super short. It's super short.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think TC Travelers put it really well in
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: chat Jordan let us sit in shades of gray and
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: didn't connect the Domori.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and and.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: And Sanderson just both of those things are against his
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: entire style. So yeah, he he had to really push
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: against his own. He had to lean on very inappropriate
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: tools to get through this impossible assignment. It shows, but
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: we props to him for managing as well as he.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, it is good, it is. It is absolutely
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: passing the grade, passing the curtain. It's fine. I'm critiquing
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: because I have right.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: For me, you know. To me, this feels like we
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: are critiquing the thread count on a beautiful tapestry, and it's.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: Like exactly right, Like.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: At one point the weaver changed and the new weaver
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: uses a slightly different style and maybe a slightly rougher weave,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: but from a distance you cannot tell the difference until
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: you get down close and start looking at the way
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: it's done. A painter using oil paints, maybe a I know,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: oils versus a curl like isn't a good comparison here,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: but like a different kind of oil paint perhaps.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Right, Like, yeah, it's it's nerd shit, we're being extremely
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: nerd about all of this, m so, but yeah, this
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: is this is one of the biggest Anderson chapters. This
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: is one of the really big, huge scenes that he
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: gets to write that, like the whole series has been
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: building towards. It's in terms of plot importance, I'd say
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: it's comparable to any of the other highlight moment like
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: this is top shelf. Right, this is you hang the
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: series on moments like this. It was done fantastically well
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: given all of the conditions. And I'm glad we're doing
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: the whole rest of the book today because it really
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: is just one last grand crescendo and then we close
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: the book.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: This is the cumulation of Rand's journey, right, This is
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: where he goes from being a nobody farm boy to
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: essentially a god.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Right, Like he even acknowledges that it's been two years,
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: which is such a random, rare thing to be reminded,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: it's only been two poor boy has been on this journey.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: I know I've said that many times on the podcast, Right,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: I reiteriterate over and over again. Oh, we're only this
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: many months since.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but like as a reader coming through, like Rand
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: never thinks about how it's only been two years. But
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: there's a line in here where he's like, this is
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: all they about Teddy Harras And he doesn't say only
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: you know so yeah, culmination, that is the word.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: God, think about that. I thought's six hundred some odd days,
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: we've done more, We've done as many episodes of this podcast.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: Oh my, we can podcast every single day for a day,
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: passing the books and is wow, yeph wow, poor Rand.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, by the time the series is over, we'll done
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: an episode for every day that's past in the series,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: give or take.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Damn damn. All right, you want to read us into
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: this thing?
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Sure? And just another man, what's our? Is it? The leaf?
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the leaves. I'm guessing for all of the
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: twath On connections, the way the leaf thoughts that he's
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: having about those.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Again, I think in this book it's as simple as
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: there were tweth one in this chapter. So one leaf,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: leaf of peace, the way the leaf.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: It's profound, damn it. He thought about them two pages.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: So the way of leif is mentioned, meant more than
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: once and everything like that. Sorry, I don't know why
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: I I I do not give them the benefit of
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: the doubt in this book. It's so funny.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: We're just nitpicky little snark goblins.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: We really are, We really are. And I guess that's
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: why everybody's here so welcome.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Why we get paid the not exactly big but still
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: existent bucks.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Thank you to everybody who gives us a portion of
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: your income. We really appreciate it. I know it's a
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: you give us.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Some of your money in exchange for this bullshit.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: You're amazing, You're bringing it hard to pull myself together. Okay, okay.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Ran walked stump shoved in the pocket of his coat,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: head down, carrying the access key securely wrapped in white
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: linen and looped to his belt at his side. Nobody
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: paid attention to him. He was just another man walking
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: the streets of Abu Dhar, nothing special, despite the fact
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: that he was taller than most. He had reddish gold hair,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: maybe suggesting some my ill blood. But a lot of
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: strange people had fled to the city recently to seek
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: shon chan protection. What was one more, as long as
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: the person was enabled to channel. He or she could
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: find stability here. Safety. That bothered him. They were his enemies,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: they were conquerors. He felt their land shouldn't be peaceful,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: they should be terrible, full of suffering because of the
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: tyrannical rule. But it wasn't like that at all, not
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: unless you could channel. What if the shawn Chan did
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: with this group of people was horrifying. Not all was
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: well beneath this happy surface, And yet it was shocking
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: to realize how well they treated others. Tinkers camped outside
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: the city in large groups. Their wagons had not moved
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: for weeks, and it seemed they were forming villages. As
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Rand had moved among them. He'd heard some of them
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: speak of settling down. Others had objected to this. Of course,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: they were the Tinkers, the traveling people. How would they
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: find the song if they did not search for it.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: It was as much a part of them as the
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: way of the leaf. So the sean Chan are sort
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: of the impetus for how this all starts. Right, Like,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: he wants to destroy the shan Chan, he wants to
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: take them out, but he sees among them a people, right,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: he sees himself in the enemy right.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Because you know they're occupying a city full of regular people, right.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: This is not a entirely military barracks. This is a city.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: And in a lot of ways, him trying to force
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: the nobles under him to do what he wants to,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: not fleece, you know, the farmers. He's like, man, I
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: really barely was able to get any improvement in these
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: farmers' lives, yelling and screaming and bashing. And here the
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: sean Chan come in and take some of the most
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: chaotic parts of the country of the continent, hammer them together,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: install some local rulers, spread the influence of the people
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: that matter, and all of a sudden, people living in
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: peace and harmony and are able to improve their lives.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: You know, as long as you're not a channeler. Jeez
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: has a couple of times.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is I wonder how realistic that is
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: that the shan Chan can just come in and hammer
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: peace and stability down on literally everyone except the one
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: percent of people who can channel the one to two percent.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Like that seems overly simple, because I mean, you know,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: the shan Chan are obviously the Americans, right, Like that's
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: their analogy. So thinking you know about parallels between Shawn
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Chan and the Americans the Ussians. I mean, we're not
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: doing a very good job of that, right, Like we're
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: like horribly oppressing huge spots of our population, and it's
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: not even making that great of a time for the
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: people who are ostensibly winning in that caste system. So like,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: how how well could you know some other power come
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: in and impose happiness and order on us? Right? Like,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: I just it feels a little simplistic and fast for
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: them to just show up and have it work seamlessly.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Here's what I'll say is I think what he's seeing
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: is selection bias. Right, he is going to the nice
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: areas that Sean Chan have good control over and being like,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: oh man, they have such good control over it, there's
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: probably areas he's not seeing, right, If you and I've
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: lived in a city long enough, right, no matter how
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: nice the city, there are slums.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: No, they like specifically clean up the rat and like
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: take everyone away to work camps. And that's good, right.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: They cleaned down all the homeless encampments and put them
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: in controlled work camps and everyone's fine with that, and
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: it's good. And only the channelers are the ones being oppressed. Okay, okay, hmm, yeah, yeah,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: I just feel like Rand is oversimplifying the happiness that
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: the Sean Chance are or experiencing, Like, yeah, they're praising it.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: It's like, well, I don't know, I don't know. It's like,
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: I mean to go farther back in history, right, I
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: mean all the way back to the freaking Romans.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: They moved in, installed their own people on top, and
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: left people to live their own lives. But that's not
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: imposing their own order in the same way.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think the Shawn Chan are Americans is
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: a little too simplistic, right, Like, I mean, I think
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: there's certain lots of elements.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Yet well Jordan wrote that, so you know, but I think.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: I think he you know, he doesn't ever just say
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: they're one culture, right. Oh, I mean it is a version, right, right,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: So you know, and one thing picturing it from Rand's head,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: I'm always trying to see what is he doing. Well,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: he's comparing it to his rule, right, That's what he's doing.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: So of course he's in self doubt mode, so he's
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: going to see the rosy best side of the Shawn
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Chan rule because he's being like, man, I'm a real
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: piece of shit and I can't even do what they did,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: so of course he's he's looking at the Instagram reels
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: right of of culture.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah. And also I mean, like the Shaun Chin
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: are so brutal on critiques that, yeah, you're not going
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: to see a lot of people being loudly unhappy because
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: people who are going to be effectively unhappy are going
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: to do so very quietly.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: And he's walking the streets, he's not going into people's homes,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: he's not in their private spaces, he's not talking to them,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: you know, after a hard day work, right, And.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Again, this has not lasted for very long. People haven't
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: realized the true cost of this. And it really breaks
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: my heart with the Tuatha on too, because they're like
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: this is fine. Like we've had centuries of persecution as
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: a people. We've never had a nation who was willing
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: to take care of us. These people will take care
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: of us. And I can't help but think of the
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Jewish niaspora across Eastern Europe, you know, just like that
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: went well in the end. My ancestors can attest. It's
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: I just I just I understand and Rand's critiques of
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: himself versus the shan Chin. I get it right. He
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: is one man who was trying to like single handedly
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: force feudalism to stop being a thing overnight. Like he
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: did not give himself an easy job. I can see
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: where his critiques are when he looks at the shan Chan,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: but I also just really question his critical thinking and
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: assessment of the actual shan Chan empire Faustian bargain that
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: these people are making. I don't think he's seeing all
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: I just had to sit back and spend a few
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: seconds considering a settlement of the Tinkers as the formation
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: of like an Israelite country.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: I was thinking, not so much that, more like being
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: in the pale of settlement, because they're they're not doing
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: the imperializing right. They're like creeping into someone else's empire,
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: like a Polish Lithuania Commonwealth saying please move here, we
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: really need people with your skills. We definitely won't turn
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: on you in three hundred years. That's definitely not going
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: to happen. But again, everything in these books is happening
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: so fast.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: It's like yeah, yeah, the timeline it's hard.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: To compare to some other things.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: It's you kind of like remember where the oh God,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: not where the world things are clanning the cave bear
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: and she in one lifetime discovers like one hundred thousand
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: years worth of like technical advancement, right, you know, it's
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: like to show that happening in a way that makes
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: sense and not be like so then one hundred years
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: later we have another generation of people and they figured
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: out this thing, and then like, yeah, yeah, you have
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: to compress it down a little bit.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And again, in fairness, Rand is having a very
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: bad time his critical thinking skills. I do not expect
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: to be up to par I just in my critical
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: reading of it. I'm just like, I don't I don't
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: think that's how the Sean channel are. I don't think
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: everyone's happy. I don't think everyone's having a good time.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: I don't think this is actually the utopia that Rand
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: is judging himself against.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm. And my head canon is just that he's
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: seeing it through his own self doubt and so of
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: course he's seeing the best side of it.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's super fair. I mean, I don't deserve any
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: grace whatsoever. I will give all the grace in the
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: world to my friends, but I deserve none. Right, like
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: I get, I get rand having a different standard for
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: himself than everyone.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: So we get the fisher King, the beggar King, whatever
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: you want to call him. You know, the final transformation
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: into prophecy, right because it was a prophecy.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the blind man will stand on his own grave
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: and weep all of that he's building. He is blind
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: right now. I mean even says at the end of
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: the book. You know, he opens his eyes for the
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: first time in a long time, right, Like he is
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: in a fully blinded state metaphorically.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: And a somewhat blinded state physically because of the fire literal. Yes,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: and so yeah, this is a parent parent had a
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: dream of Randon Rags wearing a rough cloak with the
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: bandages on his eyes, and men had a viewing of
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: him with a beggar staff.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the beggar's staff. He's very much acquired at this point.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: It's not truly a beggar's staff, but the vibe he's
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: giving it is definitely beggar's staff, and he cast it
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: aside later. I'm assuming a beggar picks it up at
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: some point.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Sure that makes sense, but I like that he's using
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: it just to hide his height, like he does all
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: the time, right, because he's always slouching, and he's like,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: oh it hurts my back, which.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Again very beggar posture. Yeah, right, punched over thing, Like yeah,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: he looks like it. He looks like the hermit from
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: a taro deck.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: And so you know, he's walking through the shan Chan
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: territory being like, I suck. You know, I have no excuses.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: I basically killed my father, you know, I was. I was,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: you know, milliseconds away from releasing that weave and taking
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: him out.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: And he says that he wasn't insane and he can't
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: blame insanity, and I'm like, please refer to Varren's comment
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: that you are being driven absolutely bonkers by the pressures
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: that the world has placed on you, Like, please allow
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: yourself some grace for that.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Come on, and let's be honest, Like he is insane,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Like he's merged that the sanity is that voice, yeah,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: that he snuffed out. He snuffed out the voice of sanity,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: the Rand that was, you know, the boy of the
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: two rivers who still cared about moral things that one's
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: dead for all intensive purposes. That was the voice he killed.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like, yeah, Rand, you are not in
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: your right mind. Like, yes, you are responsible for your actions.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: You should feel bad and have a big cathartic moment,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: but like, please, let's not pretend that you were in regular, normal,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: baseline control of yourself.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: And there's so many things here where he's like, oh,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: and Rand's voice sounded like his own voice, and it's
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: like it's clear that Rand, the insane part of Rand,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: has taken over.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, he is finally picking up on what the
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: rest of us have noticed over the course of the
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: last several books, is that he is totally himself off
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: the edge. Yeah, Rand says, there don't seem like an
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: oppressed people, and there's no undercurrent of resentment. My man,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: you are stressed the hell out, and you have been
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: here for a day. You are not necessarily able to
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: assess all of the nuances of what's happening here. Plus
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Deshan chapin here for like a week, So let the
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: undercurrent stir a little bit.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, I love this one. When Ran heard the commoner speaking,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: they were glad for the stability. They actually praised the
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: seann Chan for conquering them out in the open where
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: anybody can hear, and they know about listeners. Mm hmm.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Also you're probably listening to like middle class people
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: who had issues with the poores who have been swept
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: up into work camps. Of course they're praising the new overseers,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: especially where the overseers can hear and are glaring at
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: them while holding their weapons suggestively.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Or they're danger kittens.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, the danger kittens for sure. And Nintok made
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: a really good point in chat before he was a
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: tyrant who just popped in and said do this, And
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: what he's seeing in the shan Chan is a full
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: system and it's able to come in and do that,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: And I think that's a really good point. He is
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: judging himself against an entire infrastructure. Me one human being
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: is not as good as a massive bureaucracy that has
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: spent hundreds of years designing itself into interoperability. Come on, dude.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Even in Air Demon, he's trying to get like the
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: people together to elect the king, and he's trying to
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: get some form of a bureaucracy together, and he fails
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: miserably at that too.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Again, one person trying to whip this together from scratch.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: The shawn chain are moving in with the institutional momentum
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: of the imperial Chinese that they are also drawn from
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: as much as the Americans. Right, they have the just
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: massive momentum of China as they just are like, no,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: we'll just be shan chen at you in a way
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: that Rand could never Rand is trying to be like, hey,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: quit having feudalism, right, Not having feudalism anymore was a
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: big messy process. Everywhere that they've gotten rid of feudalism,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: it has been a lot harder than one tyrant popping
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: in for a week and saying I'll kill you if
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: you don't and then leaving again.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: And then I would argue that in Kyrie in they
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: haven't really gotten rid of feudalism.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. He was try to in many
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: many places, and yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: And he's judging himself against a different kind of feudalism, Like,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: come on, dude, it's not fair. Yeah, tankers are safe here,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: RAN's and feather isn't safe from him. Fuck thinking about that.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: We are not here to think, we are here to destroy.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: We must destroy. He just he gets too caught up
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: in his own conscience and then just switches to murder mode,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: just like on a dime. Again, so insane.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: And here he asked the question if he drew that
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: much power basically started fighting and destroying the sean Chan,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: how many lives would end? Would it simply not light
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: a beacon for the forsaken as he had in cleansing Sideine?
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: And I think, you know? And that made me wonder, like, oh,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: why don't they come for him? And I think he
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: just doesn't embrace the power long enough.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Well, I also don't know that any of them have
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: the inclination to chase him around while he's doing whatever
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: the fuck he's doing, right, Like he holds a lot
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: of the power up on top of Dragon Mount. But
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: like they might all just be like, you know what,
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: we're going to let this play out. We're good, We're
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: actually we're fine. He'll just annihilate us and then go
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: back to thinking about the Dark One like it's it's cool.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: He's usually one of his legendary actions to be untouchable.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Is what's happening?
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: There's that also, this is kind of what the Dark
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: One wants to happen. Right. He's hoping that Rand won't
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: have the epiphany and will do the thing where he
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: goes further.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Where he fire bombs the city to cover his retreat. Right, yeah,
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: that kind of of thing.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Oh no, I mean like when he's up on the
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: mountain and drawing power. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: no one, you know, why don't the foresaken come attack
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: him when they feel him hold as much power as
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: he holds when he cleanses the sores? Right, I think
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: two reasons. One, I think he only holds it for
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: a few minutes.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: It says ours, it.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Does say ours. Okay, well he's up there for hours,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: but he's not he's not pulling in all that power.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: I assumed he was holding the power the whole Oh
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: I thought he was. Oh no, yeah, you're right. He
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: does escalate at the end. Yeah, he's holding the power
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: to some extent the whole time. But you're right, he
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: does escalate pretty dramatically after Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, sorry.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: And so in that moment, yeah, in that moment, I
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: think there's not a lot of time for them to come.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: But also, like the dark one wants him to draw
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: in all that power and use it to end.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: The pattern, right, the dark ones like at this point
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: we're we have we're letting him cook. Were at this
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: point we're just letting him cook? Yeah that makes sense.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: But yeah, Rand goes murder mode and then pauses. It's
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: like he's just flip flopping so hard, right, He's like,
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: I need to destroy them. And then he tosses his
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: side his staff but doesn't quite decide to embrace the
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: power yet and keeps walking. Right. It's like the tension
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: here is real. There's a lot of tension. What is
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: he going to do? He literally keeps changing his mind
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: lining to line about what he's going to do.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: This is a crazy man with a gun to your
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: head and his finger on the trigger, arguing with himself
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: about whether to blow your head off.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: This is giving me fight club, right, yeah, a little bit,
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: a little bit, but yeah, exactly talk to someone who's
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: not there, but you are in line of a real
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: gun that is there. Exactly.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: And then I think that this is a really telling
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: line here. It will be a mercy. Lewis, theren whispered
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: death is always a mercy. The mad man didn't sound
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: as crazy as he once had, which we've heard a
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: couple of times, but this next part is unique. He
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: says in fact, his voice had started to sound an
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: awful lot like Rand's own voice. And I think that's
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: the moment, right when Rand is like, yeah, Lewis Theron's me,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I'm Lewis theren like he is the madman.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: I am the mad man, right, like a revelation that
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: the book readers have come across as of book.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Four, sure there four to three.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Read Like Rand is finally getting it.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: And so he walks over. He's sort of like, because
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: I think part of his plan, he said, he threw
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: away his staff, but he was going He's going to
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: a strategic place to start his attack, right. His walk
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: was to take out the Daughter of the Nine Moons, right,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: cut the head off the snake first and then work
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: your way down. And so he's like, this is the
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: beginning of his attack, but he's walking to the most
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: strategic place. So he looks down at the place where
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: the Daughter of the Nine Moons, where Tuon is staying,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: and it's like, how pissed would have Matt been? I Like,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Matt Randon's like, oh, yeah, I took out the other
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: of the nine Moons, and Matt was like, that was
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: my wife. Can you imagine the blood feud between them.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: That would be bitter. But yeah, he has the very
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: like weird serial killer he thought of, like I'm gonna
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: give these walls of purity they've never had. It'll actually
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: make them more complete, they won't be truly complete, and
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: to destroyed them, I'm just like you are so in
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: the wrong kind of dark place right now, Like that
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: is some serial killer shit, and give you your perfection
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: as you die, Like no, no, you stop thinking like that.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: And then there's like two paragraphs of him planning out
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: exactly how he's gonna murder everybody. It's like beat by beat,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: like I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna you know, it's
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: it's that very Sherlock, right.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: He's just gonna rain fire on the city, a more
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: mundane thing, just fire bombing a whole city for his convenience,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: like you're gonna kill some mmmm.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: And then he's like and then I'll move on to
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Amador and then ten Chico and then bah boom ba
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: boom ba boom, take out city after city. You know,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: He's like he's basically planning out fire bombing every major
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: shan Chan city in one night by.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Himself, and like honestly It's kind of an amazing moment
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: of revealing how strong he is powerfully, that he could
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: be never remaining in one place long enough to be
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: caught like a flickering light of death, like a burning
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: ember flaring to life. Here than they're like, it takes
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: you have to be like level nineteen to do that
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: kind of shit.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: You know, Well, it's him plus the children call, right,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: that's the the children call essentially gives him unlimited power. Right,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: It's not just rand power. It's the most powerful channeler
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: in all of history, using the most powerful channeling artifact
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: of all time. And it's like, well, he's already used
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: it to undo something the dark One, did you know,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Like he has that kind of power to challenge the
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: gods who existed before the creation of.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: The pattern, right right, right, And it's like this is
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: this is why everyone's so afraid of chandelers, is because
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: this is the ultimate expression of what it means to
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: be able to blow shit up with your mind. This
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: is the logical extreme of where that's going to end up.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Is mister god Man with the ultimate.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Nuke, which, like, as you know, this moment really makes
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: you kind of sympathize with the Red, right, because like, oh,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: how many men is it worth killing to prevent someone
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: having the power to wipe the pattern the planet off
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: the face of the earth. Yeah, but you.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: Know, right to annihilate the planet, to remove continence, to
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: shatter us down to the core, to blow up the sun,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: like who the fuck knows? Right, Like, yeah, it's it
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: is not a normal amount of power for a man
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: to have. But the concept of one man being able
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: to travel from place to place to place just raining
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: fire down and then vanishing, You could do that with
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: a lot less power than this man has. This is
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: something that any madman over the course of centuries could
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: have done. Yeah, a lot of sympathy for the Red.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Their purpose is not entirely without merit. Their purpose has
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: a core nugget of a very real hazard prevention. Have
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: they gone completely bonkers with it?
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: No, But like the validity of the mission statement very valid.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: You know, all of the colors of the Ajas rainbow
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: have a little bit of black mixed in with them.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: So it's made their purpose a little money, shall we say.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Any tool can be used badly, Any ideology
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: can be warped in a bad direction. That doesn't mean
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: that every tool and idea ever is bad.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: So he grabs Sidine.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: And Sidine grabs him.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So I had a loose theory about this, right,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: so we know the sickness of him grabbing Sideine is
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: relayed to him sort of crossing streams with Mordon.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Like Mordon's also channeling at the same time, kind of
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: just in.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Terms of timing, right, this this occurred after he crossed
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: streams with Mordon. This started occurring after that event, right,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: so they are most likely related. Okay, sure, yeah, sure,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: right now, that's sort of my thesis here. And so
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: the reason why this affects him more than it ever
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: has is because he is so far into Mordon's philosophy.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: He's so far out of his body, this idea that
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: everything should die. There's no purpose that takes him out
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: of his body and in the Mordon's because that's Mordan's philosophy.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: And the further out of his body he is, the
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: more this there's this reverberation of him snapping back into
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: his body when he needs to channel. And so the
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: reason it's so bad now is he's so far into
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: that negative attitude, negative philosophy. And the reason why it
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: goes away is because he's again at peace with himself.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: He's centered in who he is, and so he no
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: longer has that effect.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: I like it. I mean that's really like out there
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: head cannon, but I like it. It captures so many
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: little bits and puts them into a constellation that makes
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: sense because he is so fucking a shawmeo, like not
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: even Mordan, Like this is like pre breaking as shameo,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: kind of like I've just discovered nihilism for the first
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: time in the fight years, right, just the level of
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: there is no point. It's like, dude, I was thinking
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: this when I was a depressed fourteen year old. Okay,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: like this is nihilism, one oh one. This is you
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: breathe and like drink some fucking water once in your
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: life and you will get through this and like figure
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: out that love is the answer.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: He's some shrooms man. The loyal has them.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: I'm sure I mean that that helps too, but I'm
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: definitely loyal has them. Loyal definitely.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: They grow all the trees. It's but yeah, I was
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: trying to put together the fact that that the vibration,
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: the channeling sickness, whatever we call it, is linked to
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: the crossing of the streams, but seems to be getting
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: worse and then fixes itself at the end. So like,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: what's going on here? Because he doesn't undo the crossing
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: of the streams, he doesn't undo his link to Morid
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: and that still.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Exists, right right, right, Yeah, yeah, there's still quite linked.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: He uses that link over time and it doesn't cause
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: him nausea anymore.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: I really like that.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: That he's basically stretched out because he's so out of
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: his own head, and that every time he seizes the source,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: he gets plucked like a string and that's that's causing
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: the vibration, and so you know, when he's back in
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: his own body, there's no tension anymore.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, a string will not make a sound if
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: it's not under tension. That's kind of how stringed instruments work. Yeah.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: I think that makes a lot of sense because the nausea,
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: we've really been on our own to figure out a
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: metaphysical head canon for why the nausea is happening. There
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: is no good book canon, and this this continue this, yes,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: adds that, this continues that in a very productive way.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: So I like it. I like it when you when
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: you get too nihilistic and out of your body then
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: seizing the source. It's not a good chord.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: It's not harmony, right right, So yeah, it's sort of
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: the sickness. Is this double effect the crossing of the
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: streams and his nihilism.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so like literally fix your brain to fix your
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: body is literally what we're getting here. Like fix your
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: thoughts and fix your physical health is literally what this
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: is saying. No, no, that's not what this is saying. No,
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: don't think that, don't think that. But it is interesting
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: that his mental state and his ability to handle the
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: power are so linked in that way. I mean, I've
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: always been linked. It's it's you know, it's a mental
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: trick to seize the source, but to have that thing
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: with more than ah, the crossing of the streams is
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: such a monkey wrench.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite moments in the series. And
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: I love when he gets metaphysical with it.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: It's really there's nothing like that in any other fantasy
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: series I've read. It's so uniquely real of time. Like
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: I'm sure there's examples that someone can come up with,
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: but it just feels like and this is one of
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: the things that sets weel the time apart from its peers.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: So the people he was about to wipe out show
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: concern from him when he falls down sick, which completely
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: overwhelms him, and he skins, Yeah, but I was gonna
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: murder all of you. I was gonna rain fire on
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: your heads. And you're trying to take care of me
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: and show concern and calling an ambulance and asking me
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: if I'm okay and giving me water, and he's like, fuck,
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: like this, it totally puts the nail on the coffin
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: of his ability to rain fire down on innocent people.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: He walks among them for too long, he sees their lives,
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: and they show concern for him, and he's gonna repair
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: that with with death and fire. No, he can't, like
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: he physically can't.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: He still ran right because this was going to be
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: like possibly an impossible choice for him already. Now they've
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: just guaranteed that it's impossible. Just yeah, for sure.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: No, And then he's in his head, why can't I
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: be strong enough? Why can't I do what I must?
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: And the whole him and Lewis Tharren are thinking the
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: same thing, right, and that like, I can't be strong enough.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: You Quinn, you are it's not about being strong. You
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: have to be cruel, you have to be mean, Like
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: it's not the right thing to do.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: It's not about strength, right, He's he's realizing something that
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: you know, kad Swain and so re Leia have realized
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: for a couple of books that like he's trying to
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: be the wrong thing in order to face the last battle.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: He has assigned the qualities he needs to the concept
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: of strong. But he's wrong. Strong isn't that you can
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: be as strong as you want, And that's not going
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: to let you do what needs to be done. And
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: for some reason, you seem to think what needs to
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: be done is being as bad as a forsaken So
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: like get your head.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Right, destruction, Yeah, this is really like and he's this
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: is the first time where I think he starts to
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: question if he really should be killing the dark one, right,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: because he's like, what is my purpose? Right? I thought
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: I could avoid killing, and now I've found that to
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: be a necessary part. But is it, you know, is
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: I'm doing the right thing right?
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Right? And are you right to keep letting people live
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: so that they can die? And like it's just embracing
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: death fully the way to go or is getting rid
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: of death entirely the way to go. And then he
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: thinks about how he is necessary destruction, like why had
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: the pattern pushed him so hard? And I would say
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: first half of that, Yes, I don't know that the
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: pattern pushed you to be hard. I think you pushed
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: you to be hard. The pattern pushed you to have
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: to figure out how to deal with shit. You chose
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: hardness as a coping mechanism. But I do think that
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: destruction is necessary, right, This is a normal part of
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: all cycles. Right, You've even got like the whole goddess
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Collie that's like all about sacred destruction. Like she's terrifying,
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: do not invoke her without good cause. But like, destruction
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: is a part of a cyclic universe. You can't have
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: things made out of the ash of the old unless
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: the old burns, right, Like it's sort of a whole thing.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, Sanderson, his whole Misborn series is based on
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: the two gods of ruin and preservation, right one right,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: Like it's destruction, destroyer and creator, right, And.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: Like entropy is one of the you know, the things,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Like you know destruction is inherent to things, so you know,
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: rand didn't need to be a non violent zen person
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: who just walks through the world without ever causing armies
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: to clash. Right, Like, that is not that they some
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: amount of destruction was going to mark the end of
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: this age. Right as the plow breaks the ear, shall
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: he break the lives of men?
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: Is a real prophecy, remnant of reminent right Like yeah, right,
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: Like these.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Are real things. But like you, being a cruel and
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: violent destroyer is an extension that we did not need.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: This is not necessary. There's too little love in that destruction.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: Destruction can have an element of love it And I
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: mean if you ever cleared out a garden in order
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: to prepare the ground for the next wave, like that
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: is destruction that is done as an act of creativity.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: So destruction he is again just like with being strong,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: he's he's not sure what he's trying to do here,
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: and he's figuring out that he's on a dead end.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so he's bouncing around to a couple of places.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: He ends up in the field where he fought the
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: sean Chan with Calendor. Right, that's where he skims too.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Right, because he gets a gateway to get out of there,
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: but he has to go somewhere close by, right, because
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: he's just skimming, and then once he's done that, then
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: the skimming impulse is able to allow him to go
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: at a much wider range. I guess yes, Athlone Editing
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: podcast is creative destruction. This is a very.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Good way of putting.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: I destroy so many things and it makes the product better.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, carving editing and anytime you're cutting away from something
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: that exists to reveal something else within.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, very much so. And I do like how
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: his skimming platform he's like curled up in a fetal
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: position on the dragon or on the ancient seal of
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: ized to die, right. The visual of that is like,
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: I'm okay with it. That's a very good visual. He's
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: curled around the choadon call in the fetal position, on
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: the dividing line between white and black. It's just floating
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: in blackness.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: Beautiful, beautiful a Arry Sanderson image.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Though, Yeah, not mad about it, not even mad about it.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: I'm like, you know what, dude, you are riding some
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: real difficult shit. Please put a little of your own
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: flare on it. That's perfectly acceptable.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: And the sight inside are like imagery is just sitting
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: there to be used, right, because.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was Jordan's fault.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So he forms a gateway to the mountaintop and
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: that's sort of the end of this chapter. Right.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I guess he doesn't even skim, He just
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: gateways through.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I'm assuming he knows that meadow well enough
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: to just gateway out from there, right, because he's been
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: the yeah you're right, well that too, Yeah.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Well, and he did that whole calendar thing there. Yeah,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: so it's an easy place for him to gateway out of.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: And yeah, he takes himself right to the tip top
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: of Dragon Mountain. He does exactly zero hiking to earn
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: that someone and to as someone who thinks mountain climbers
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: are really cool to read about. Rude.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: You know, he took the chopper to the top, you know, rude.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: I don't count that.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: He didn't go up there for the climb. He went
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: up there for the view.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: Rude.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: And you could argue that his whole life has been
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: a climb to the top of the literal pill top, right,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: all his suffering, all his you know, he's been climbing
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: and climbing and climbing against all of that for the
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: last two years.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: I guess we can allow that. I guess that's allegorically correct.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: And now he's at the tip of his effort, right
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: the end of his struggle to face the last battle.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Plus it would probably like literally take a rand Land
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: week for him to hike up the thing from the foothills,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: so we don't got that kind of time at this point.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: No one's walking dough with the here.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I bet it's a hard climb. I mean,
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: this is a very artificial isn't quite the right word,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: but it.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Is not magically mountain.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: It's magically induced and it has not been eroded for
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: that long. This would be probably an impossible mountain to
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: scale without some hardcore rock climbing scales and equipment.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: I always imagine because he punctured such a perfect hole
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: out of the crust that the Earth's crust was super
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: solid around it, which kept the lava going vertical for
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: a really long time and made a really high peak.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: I would agree with that because it was almost definitely
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: the middle of a continent, which is where the continental
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: crust is going to be very thick and deep and
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: go super far down into the mantle and be made
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: of much more melt resistant material than ocean floor. So
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: I totally agreed that this was a borehole that more
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: or less just held steady until the mountain on top
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: was literally heavy enough to hold the subsequent pressure down.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: And I mean, you've even got a lava lake at
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: the top of this thing. I mean not literally at
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: the top, but like visible from the top like below
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: in the caldera. Yeah, like high up, like high up
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: the slopes of the mountain. And that's why there's been
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: smoke coming out forever. But like, lava lakes are very rare.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: There's like five or six in the world. There's really
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: not that many, and because it conditions to make them
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: are very specific. And I think that a borehole that
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: runs straight down to the mantle definitely would have a
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: lava lake on top. That seems correct. I really want
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: to see one someday.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: I kind of always imagine across between Mount Saint Helen
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: and Crater Lake, like Crater Lake made out of lava
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: in Mount Saint Helen, because it's got that sort of
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: big sheer on one side, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, like
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: a big face of like half of the the mountain
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: face is sheered off, right, Like we get a really
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: detailed description of the mountain in this chapter. It's pretty pretty,
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: very pretty.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just yeah, your vision. But then stick all
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: that on a much much taller mountain, much much higher
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: up in the air. But yeah, totally.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: And normally clouds are below the peak of the Dragon
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: mount in this chapter, they're above, right, the unnaturalness of
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: that because they're so high. There real separation between heaven
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: and Earth.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and like the rules of engagement are really being
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: bent by the dark One, as evidenced by the cloud
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: cover covering even the mountain that normally pierces the clouds.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to read from a gateway opened, Yeah,
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: do it. A gateway opened, and he stumbled to his feet,
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: clutching the access key. He stepped from the skimming platform
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: and out onto an empty meadow, the place where he'd
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: fought the shan Chan once with calendor and failed. He
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: stared at this place for a long time, breathing in
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: and out, and then spun another gateway. This one opened
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: onto a field of snow, and icy wind blasted at him.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: He stepped through, feet crunching into the snow, and let
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: the gateway close. Here the world spread before him. Why
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: have we come here, Rand thought, because Rand replied, we
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: made this. This is where we died. He stood on
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: the very point of Dragon mount the lone peak that
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: had erupted where Lewis Thearren had killed himself three thousand
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: years before. To one side, he could see down hundreds
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: of feet to where the side of the mountain opened
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: into a blasted out chasm. The opening was enormous, larger
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: than looked in profile, a wide oval of red, blazing,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: churning rock. It was as if a chunk of the
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: mountain were simply missing, torn away, leaving the peak to
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: rise into the air, but the entire side of the
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: mountain gone. Ran stared down into that seething chasm. It
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: was like the maw of a beast. Heat burned from below,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: and flakes of ash twisted into the sky. The dun
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: sky was clouded above him. The ground seemed equally distant,
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: barely visible, like a quilt marked with patterns. Here a
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: patch of green that was a forest, There a stitch
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: that was a river. To the east, he saw a
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: small speck in the river, like a floating leaf caught
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: in the tiny current. Tarbollan. Rand sat down the snow
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: crunching beneath his weight. He set the access key into
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: the bank before him and woke air and fire to
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: keep himself warm. Then he rested his elbows on his
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: knees and his head on his hand, staring at the
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: diminutive statue of the man with the globe. To think
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: that takes us right into veins of gold.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just there it is. A couple hours later, a
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: due chapter starts.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: How long does it say how long he's been there? Oh?
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: He had been there for hours? Yeah, yeah, so we.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: Don't be hours ambiguous number of hours, but we know
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: that he started out the day early in the day.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: He started out the chapter early in the day in
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Abu Dhar, and he has now traveled many miles to
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: the east of Abu Dhar, which means it is later
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: in the day than it was, So we're like mid
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: afternoon to evening is probably about where we're at, given
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: his geographic shift. On top of the hours being a
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: very open ended term.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: He does the thing where he makes himself warm, and
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: he also compresses the air so he has enough air
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: to breathe, because otherwise there wouldn't be because he's above
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: plain height.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: He's in the death Zone. Yeah, and you can go
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: to the death zone without supplemental gas for brief periods
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: of time to do epic feats of mountaineering if you
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: condition yourself really hardcore for it. He has jumped from
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: sea level to in the death Zone in the course
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: of a single day. He probably would have gotten the
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: cerebral edema within the minutes it took him to figure
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: out that he needed to come up with that weave,
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: if we're being realistic.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: But I think the point of the weave is that
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: he's doing it naturally, even though it's something that Asmodian
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: couldn't teach him. Right, he's fully accessing his memories and
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: his skills of Lewis theren there's very little barrier between
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: barrier between them. Yeah.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's no longer body sometimes here, sometimes not. Now
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: he's just intuitively has the waves. Every time he reaches
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: for them. It's like, oh, I need a thing, and
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: loose there and it's like here you go, here's the thing.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: And he still has been holding the source. He says
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: he has not let go of the source, specifically because
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: he's afraid of the nausea of seizing it again. So
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: he might be blazing.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: But he is channeling right, right, he's holding the source
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: the whole time. But he might not even be channeling, right,
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: he's just holding the source.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: Well, he is channeling to make the warmth and the air.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: Oh that's right, the weaves. Yeah yeah, yeah, so.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: He's got a nice low simmer, but it's nothing that
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: would be visible across continents.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, TC traveler. I was going to point that out
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: that in the conversation Rand thinks, and Rand replied, it's
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: not Lewis Thearren replying to Rand anymore, it's just Rand
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: applying to him.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Yeahs is sort of is gone. Yeah, the knowledge is
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: from loose Theren tell him on, but the LTT intermediary
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: is no longer in the picture.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think we're again because there's two things
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: going on here. There's the access to the memories and
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: then there's the crazy personality that is basically and both
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: have merged with Rand and is like, dude, no, you
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: need to realize that you don't have to be insane.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: I mean it's kind of a hint of what is
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: to come after Vans of Gold, right, where he just
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: can comfortably access both of his lives, like he's comfortably
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: accessing a subset of both of his lives, and that
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: is channeling knowledge, which also makes sense because he's blending
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: with Morgan, who is an Age of Legends person right, Like, yeah, sure,
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: the Age of Legends channeling ability. Let's have that just
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: be one hundred percent.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, I think he's one hundred percent like the Yeah,
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to how to describe how I
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: feel about this in terms of like he's both he's
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: integrated fully with Lewis there and the memories, but he
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: later has to like pull the personality out but keep
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: the memories because the personality isn't real.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the personality was a coping mechanism to help him
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: deal with the fact that all these other things were happening.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: And you know, we're in the process of getting over that,
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: voices out and yeah, he's contemplating his purpose basically.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And this is one of those things where
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: it's I really have a hard time talking about this
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: the way he feels, right, this this angry at the world,
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: angry at the pattern, angry at the creator. Right, it's
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: one of those things where I've certainly felt that anger
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: where it just feels like no matter what you do,
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: everything goes against you, and you're just angry at the world.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: And I feel like there's a lot of like men's
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: mental health wrapped up in this these couple of paragraphs. Sure,
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: that's just like really hard to talk about in a
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: way that is going to do it justice, especially around
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: like anger and acceptance and losing people and loneliness, and
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: like there's just so much here that is pain on
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: the page that I feel like Sanderson is doing a
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: pretty good job of tapping into.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's so Sanderson flavored too. Yes, one of
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: those parts where I'm just like Jordan would never have
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: phrased it like this, or reiterated it this many times,
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: or been this direct, or there's just like I don't
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: think it's invalid, because like it certainly seems like Sanderson
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: is writing about a thing that resonates with a lot
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: of people and echoes a lot of people's lived experience.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: But it just does not feel like how Jordan would
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: have done this, And it almost doesn't even feel like
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: the Rand I'm used to. I'm like, is this what
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: Rand is mad about? I'm not. I don't know. It's
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: it's so Sanderson. It's just that that to me is
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: always what stands out is like this is how Sanderson
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: sees this stuff. But I don't know if this is
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: what Jordan was trying to get across here, I don't know.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: I do like that it points out that like rand is,
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: you know, protecting a very sensitive person inside himself, right that,
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: like he is just a fuzzy little farm boy that
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: just wants everyone to be happy, and like it's you know,
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: it reiterates that, but it's just the voice of it
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: is so strange.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: Fair Yeah. Yeah. A couple of points, he sort of
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: talks about how everything began to go wrong at Moraine's death,
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: right that that's really the moment when he which agree, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: which is why I really would have loved to see
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: Moraine come back and break the cycle.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: That's where the Moraine let down comes through. Right is
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: He accurately says Moraine's death between the end of Fires
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: of Heaven and the end of Lord of Chaos, between
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: Moraine's death and do my I as well as the
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: box all of that, Like, those are the two points
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: when the when the curve changes and everything is absolutely clusterfucked.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: Moraine coming back needs to have an equal and opposite
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: reaction to her loss.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: And it doesn't. It's like, oh, cool, you're not dead.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: Kiss kiss, because.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: He's over it now. I guess he's already over it
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: by the time she comes.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: Back exactly exactly, you know. And and then there's the
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: whole moment in the Last Battle when he releases the
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: list right, he's like, oh, I don't need to I
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: can let go of the list entirely, And it's like,
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: you should have let go of it when Moraine came back.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, Moraine should have been the dude, I release you,
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: and everyone between me and the end of the list
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: also releases you, like come on, come on now.
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so yeah, yeah, I think you know. As
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: much as I think Rand was robbed of some of
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: his moments in the TV show, I think Moraine was
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: robbed of her some of her moments in the book Big.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: Time, Big Big, big Time. I don't mind I don't
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: mind Matt getting the glory of rescuing here, I don't
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: even mind Tom coming along for the ride, but she
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: needs to have an equivalent amount of impact afterwards in
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: order for those first two statements to be true. Come
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: on yeah, well yeah, so Rand just basically like I
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: failed to kill my feelings, and that is why I'm
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: a bad person, because I can't stop feeling.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: And it's like that might not have been a good
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: strategy rand because it turns out we're a person and
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: you have feelings no matter what you think or say or.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: Do, Like, feelings are intrinsic to the human experience and
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: that is the only thing worth preserving in this metaphysical
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: battle that you are crafted to fight.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and here's where we find out that voice that
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: was in his head the last remnant, that was basically
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: knew about right and wrong right, and wasn't just means
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: to an end. That's the finally lost his little Jimney cricket,
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: his little voice, yea, do what was good and right
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: and wrong. And that's I think now why he's really
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: crashing out, because he's like, he's like, I'm gonna kill
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: all the shan Chan and there's no voice in his
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: head saying don't do that, don't and he knows it's wrong,
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: and he's like, oh crap, I don't have a moral
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: compass anymore. Like that's bad going into the last battle.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: I think part of him knows that's bad.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, that's how he knew he still had
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: a scrap to protect. Oh and it says here that
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: it's midday right now, it's not evening, it's like noon,
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: so ours is a very He was there for like
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: two hours technically hours, but not like the seven hours
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: I was sort of mentally imagining because.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: That it would be sunset.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: So he goes on for a while about how nothing
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: means anything because it just repeats over and over and
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: over again, and even if you accomplish great things, eventually
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: it'll just fade to a legend and become a myth,
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: and referencing the original paragraph, and that's you know why
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: even bother if even great deeds, you know, fade away,
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: and and all we do is suffer over and over
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: and over and over again.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: And this is when he starts to channel in a
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: more noticeable way. This is when he starts the process
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: of powering up the Chowdon call to full capacity.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: Being like basically, what if it's but what if I
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: should end this right?
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: Like what if I don't want to win? What if
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: I don't want the pattern to continue? What if I
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: think it's all bullshit?
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: What if all caps round of this matters, you know.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: Cats, Yeah, he literally is switching to all caps, like
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: the dark One or.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: The Creator or the Creator, right, because we do get
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: at least two creator statements that we know of that's true,
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: the World and Memory of Light.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: I also think there's an insufficient number of exclamation points
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: on none of this matters. There should be more than one.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but if you speak in all caps at
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: the conclusion of all those statements, you need at least
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: four exclamation points. Yes, Fuji, the nothing matters. Staring at
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: the wall being sad and nothing matters, staring at the
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: view being happy. Absolutely nothing matters is one of the
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: most freeing things you can internalize if you do it
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: the right way, and Rand has not.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he definitely is in the opposite, the bad way.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's he's the staring at the wall being sad
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: where you know, the enlightened version of himself is like,
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: if nothing matters, then everything matters, and I can choose stuff, and.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: Like, then what does matter? Love and gluttony and what
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: makes you happy? Sleeping and puppies and yeah.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: Like dopamine, seratotin and oxytocin.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: The only three things I ever liked yes, exactly. Yeah,
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: and Sanderson's just name dropping the wheel of time kept turning, rotating,
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: like we're just really he's thinking about these big concepts
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: about how the wheel of time turns and legends will
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: be forgotten and myths will fade, and I mean really
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: sort of the meta concepts are being brought up here
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: around the series, which, like, if you want to be like, oh,
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: what is the story about? Right, this is kind of
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: you could say like, oh, it's about this turning of
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: the wheel and the things repeating and mythsfading, the legend
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: but being able to do it over and over and
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: over again.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which I mean is a question that Robert Jordan
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: basically begs. By writing a story where all of human
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: existence is a cycle that repeats over and over again,
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: it does beg the question, So then what the fuck
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: is the point? Yes, what is the point if we
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: just repeat over and over again? He's been begging that
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: question since paragraph one of book one. So you know,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: on the one hand, do I think Sanderson is connecting
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: the docil little aggressively to ask the questions? Yes, But
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: also the question did need to be asked directly, Someone
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: needed to ask the creator of this universe directly what
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: the hell is going on? And his response to asking
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: the question is to begin to pull in more power
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: than loose therein did to make dragon mount, which is
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: how you know that we are not just coming full
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: circle to chapter one of book one. We're coming full
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: circle to the prologue of book one. We basically never
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: full circle the story back that far, but this time
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: we are. Now he's drawing more and this is the
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: line fury that had been building in him for two
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: years finally boiled free. He never thinks about the fact
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: that it's only been two years. Rand never thinks about
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: how little time it's sped. And granted he's not putting
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: anything like only in front of that statement, but still
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: it's one of the few times that Rand acknowledges it
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: has been two years for all of this.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: I think it's really funny how closely Robert Jordan tracked
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: the dates on which things were happening, and how consistent
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: he was, even down to the getting the moon phases
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: correctly that that's how we can track it, right like,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: and yet his characters never mention it.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, totally in the back, back, back back background.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: That's the kind of stuff when I'm like when I say, oh, yeah,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: Jordan's weaving with a different thread count, right, Like that's
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: the kind of thing that's just like, oh yeah, there's
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: some threads in there that are real deep. As part
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: of that, he's like, Oh, I've already I've already failed,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: I've already killed Iliana.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: He's in this headspace where he's like as much Lewis
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: theren as he is Rand al Thor.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: He's living in his trauma. He's reliving all the true
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: at once, so time has become a flat circle and
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: every tragedy is all happening at the same time. And yeah,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: he Rand slash Louse thinks he should have he should
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: have killed the whole world, right like he full Morden,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: He's full of Moridon. This is what the dark One
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: needs in order to win. This is the moment that
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: Dark One has been building towards for all this time,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: is for him to realize that he hadn't gone far
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: enough last time. That's the whole point of all the pressure.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: Rand raised his arms high, a conduit of power and energy,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: an incarnation of death and destruction. He would end it,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: end it all, and let men rest finally from their suffering,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean this, that's the moment. That's what
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: the Dark One wants him to do. Is he's entropy,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: He's the end. It's eventually I will win, and the
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: dragon reborn is his instrument. Like I do think that
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: if the pattern would ever end, this is how it
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: would end, right in all of its turnings, when it
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: finally wears now on the wheel becomes ragged and tattery
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: or you know who knows, right? Is there is there
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: ever an end of the wheel.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: This would be it if it were to happen.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: And because this doesn't, you know, I fully believe that
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: when you touch the Dark One, there's only one battle,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: right that Rand always wins the last battle. Always the
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: wheel always continues to turn. This is not that right,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: Everyone's like, oh, because the Dark One for me exists
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: at the axis the spoke. So when Rand goes in
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: and does the last battle, and you have all the
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: overlapping last battles, those are all the last battles happening
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: across all the turnings of the wheel, all at the
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: same time. And Rand always wins because he wins this time,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: so he wins every time. That cycle always has to
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: happen However, at every turning of the wheel, there's a
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: point in which Rand has to make the choice. And
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: this is very matrix like the one. You know. You
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: have to choose either to just shut it all down
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: or keep it going. And this is where the choice
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: can actually end the and end the pattern. And it's
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: why the dark One can never do it, because he
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: lost the last battle once, which means he will always
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: lose it, so he can never be the one to
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: destroy the pattern.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: And then, yeah, Rand just does the four year old
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: thing of just asking why or two year old thing why,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: just over and over and over again. And so suddenly
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: the universe finally gets tired of his whining and gives
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: him an answer.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: It's his own head, he answers himself.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: As I said, the universe he's.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: Thinking, he's thinking. But yeah, so lewis theren right, the
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: voice of Lewis Tharn, who is now the same voice
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: in his said right, he has been taken over by
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: the mad voice in his head. The mad voice is Rand,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: the same voice. The voice that's left, whatever's left is
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: Lewis Theron. That's a voice from outside of himself, you know,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: And for once that voice basically says he wants a
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: second chance, right at all of this time, all of
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: this this idea that Rand is reborn as the dragon
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: reborn and gets to reborn. Right, maybe you get to
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: try again, maybe you can do better now. I think
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: the flaw in that is no one can remember what
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: they used to do, so how can you know to
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: do better? Right? But Rand has that rare opportunity of
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: getting his previous life memories.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, if there was ever a person who was
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: being given the opportunity to try again, it is Rand
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: because of the memories, like that explicitly gives him that.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: But I mean, I think it works metaphorically to be
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: like make the world better then you like leave the
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: world better than you found it, Campsite rules, and then
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: when your time comes around again, in theory, it'll be better.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: Like you know, maybe everyone is having a second chance
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: or a third chance, like maybe you know, there's a
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: lot of nice ways to extend that. But yeah, the
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: literally only Rand actually has access to specific memories that
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: allow him to specifically have a second chance.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: But whatever, But you know, heavily heavily in the myth
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: of reincarnation, right, which is, but this story is heavily
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: based in that, right.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: We Oh, that's a du x makino you just have
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: to accept in order for the books to make any sense.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: And I think it's at this moment he becomes the
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: dragon reborn, right, because he saw the entire world in
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: his mind's eye, lit by the glow in his hand.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: He remembered lives, hundreds of them, thousands of them, stretching
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: to infinity. He remembered love and peace and joy and hope.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: And within that moment, something suddenly occurred to him, if
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: I live again, then she might as well. And I
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: think oftentimes I always remember that, oh, if I live again,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: she might as well, right, But I always kind of
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: forget about the first half of that, where he remembers
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: all of his lives stretching back to infinity, not just LTT.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: He becomes a fully embodied dragon reborn, And I think
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: that's the moment when he essentially coats the corruption with
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: the golden memories.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: Because this is the corruption of one lifetime and he
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: is all the lifetimes.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's where the golden coating comes from. The
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: nine Eve sees later.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I hadn't really thought about how important that
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: first half is that he integrates with the entirety of
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: what it means to be the dragon Reborn across all
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: the turnings of the ages, not just the dragon reborn
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: of the current Turning's.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: Lore, hm, not just loose there and tell him on
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: right right?
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: And in that regard, I think, you know, to the
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: second half of the sentence, who is the she? I
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: think the she is Illiana because the pain that the
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: dragon reborn myth and lore has been carrying through the
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: last three thousand years is the murder of Illana Sunhair.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: Everyone knows that he killed her. Rant has been terrified
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: that he would repeat that trauma and his children. Hey,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: that's my point, is like there is only one victim
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: that he has been fixated on of all the people
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: he killed, like that, that has to be the only she.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: Like again, he thinks about all the pain and trauma,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, you literally never thought about your children.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: We know you had multiple children, so many children, and
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: like no, none of those kids ever get named, not once.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: So like, I just I can't see anyone else being
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: the she other than Ilana. And I think it's kind
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: of cool that Rand has three love interests because it
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: means that none of them can be the soul that
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: is Iliyena, because that would be weird because the three
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: of them are non hierarchical, like there is no clear
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: way of saying which one's like better than the others,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: Like Elaine looks more like her superficially, but like I
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: like the idea that Eleana's soul is just off, live
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: in its best life. Like, it's not the point that
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: the two star Cross lovers come back together. The point
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: is just that reincarnation is a thing.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: I do like the idea. I don't know there's something
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: to it because like Elaine and Iliana, like Elaine's basically
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: part of that name. They both have golden hair, right,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: they're both queens. There seems to be a lot there
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: to relate those two. I don't believe she is, and
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: I think it's stated explicitly she's not Illiana reborn. But
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: part of me likes to think that maybe all three women,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: Like it took three women to embody the soul that
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: was iliena right that like part of hers in a Lane,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: part of hers in Avianda, and part of hers and men.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: She's just a person. I don't think she needs to
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: be split up into three.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: I agree, Well, she's not the Trinity. Come on, let's
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: go with the.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: Oh why does she need to be fragmented for a
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: man's romantic pleasure? That no, just let her go live
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: her own life and not be married into like one
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: of the biggest douche canoes in all of history. So yeah,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: Rand has the beautiful moment of even within the tempest
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: and the winds and the crashes of thunder, all is
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: still because each time we live, we get to love again.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: And then he moves to the corollary of that, I
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: want to do it right this time. Not only do
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: we have the opportunity to do it again, we he
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: is making the choice. This is the choice part, right,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: you were saying before, you know, all fantasy revolves around
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: choice or love. Right. He first realizes that love is
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: an option, and then he chooses it, and it's there
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: are two very distinct parts of his thought process. The
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: choice comes second, and that is so critical to his
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: engagement with the dark one at the end that I
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: like that it's separate.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: He has to know he can make a choice. He
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: can't make the choice until he knows about the choice,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: and he has to realize there is a choice.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: You can't make a choice you don't know about. You
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: literally can't. It's like in the logic rules.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, you can fail to make a choice, is
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: still kind of making a choice.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: But sure, but you cannot be said to have made
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: an informed choice.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: No decision. Yeah, and yeah, the blatant oh my god,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: the like, oh my god, Elena will get reborn. I
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: feel like everyone slapped their foreheads when he said that.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: Was like, yeah, everybody gets reborn, including Ileena.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah she's not actually specially denied the rebirth cycle, right right,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: because you killed her. She's not like cursed to never
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: be reborn, Like come on now, right, Yeah, it does
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: feel a little bit like yeah, just like I mean, again.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: Have you not read your own Bible? But there is
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: some of that, just like did you not follow the
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: basic logic of the religion that you believe in? Right that, Like, yeah,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: reincarnation is a thing.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: It's like what yeah, yeah, it's it's a little silly.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: But also it's like, wait, that was all that we
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: needed to fix you this whole time, was walking through
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: a simple logic problem.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: It does ridiculous. Yeah, oh you needed is to remember
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: the basics of how reincarnation works in your belief system,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: of which you have more evidence than anybody else because
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: you actually remember previous lives.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. First of all, there's not competing systems of schools
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: of thought in your world. There's one belief system, and
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: you have more empirical evidence than literally anybody else. Even Matt,
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: with all of his memories, has a very explicit, weird
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: artificial Finn workaround that is not reincarnation.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because he doesn't have memories of his past lives.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, some of his early ones might be before
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: he goes through the gateway. Right.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, he's got a little Menetharine weirdness in there, and
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: I think he's got some Finn memories that are also
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: Menetharine memories. So there's some weird statistical overlap there. But yeah,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: he's not remembering his lineage, whereas Rand is remembering not
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: a physical lineage, but like a distinct soul lineage. It's
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: not a grab bag like with the Finn.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: And so with the decision that he wants to do
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: right this time, he destroys the Chidren call.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: The only way that he knows how, which is with itself. Right.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: It's too powerful to be destroyed. Except by using it.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: And you know, it's an interesting like is that it's
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: sort of nuclear deem armament self fulfilled.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: That's I interpret it. Yeah, like whatever, how, whatever we're
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: going to settle this war is going to be with
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: more conventional weapons. We're not going to irradiate the atmosphere.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: Through the course of.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: This and then at the end of this chapter you
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: sort of have the moment where you have zen Rand
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: opening his eyes. Right, we've had Darth Rand and then
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: Forsaken Rand, and this is now the beginning of zen Rand.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: And Rand opened his eyes for the first time in
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: a very long while. He knew somehow he would never
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: hear Lewis Therenud's voice in his head, for they were
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: not two men and never had been. And I think
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: that that, right there is such an important line for
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: what's going on in Rand's head and never had been
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: and never had been. They were not two men and
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: they never had been, and so much around like everything
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: about how we frame Rand's madness, about the fact that
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: he's not communicating with Lewis theren through time and they're
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: both going mad at the same time and hearing each other.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: The fact that he's not a dead lewis Theren who's
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: then reincarnated and remembers everything because he's a separate person
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: who exists in Rand's head. Rand has to integrate with, right,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: this idea that no, no, no, no, all you got
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: was some memories of an old life that you have
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: always been Rand, You have always been you. The voice
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: in your head was just the craziness, was just the insanity.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: And that clarity really helped up recontextualize decades of books. Yeah,
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: that line was so important to me when it came out.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one place where Sanderson clarity is very appreciated. Yeah,
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: and also remember Paren is watching all of this, Yes,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: this whole last little bit. There's a dream Paren watching
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: this go down in Telrenriod.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Parent, Paren is experiencing this incredible storm and like
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: he's barely able to survive it, and like there's this
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: whole metaphysical thing going on at the same time that
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: we could see this from another POV, whereas to us
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: from the outside, it looks like him just sitting on
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: a hilltop.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: There's no storm in the real world. There's no storm,
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: but yeah, Paren is standing there a few feet away
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: in the dream world, just getting buffeted. By hurricane force
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: winds and barely holding on and like screaming at rand
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: to like hold on, and then he vanishes into this
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: dark pit, and then this beam of light comes out
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: and the storm vanishes, and then ran like smiles beatifically
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: and fades away, and like all of that, we're gonna
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: need a whole other book before we get back to
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: this moment, and paren watching what this looks like metaphysically
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: from the outside, And I love the parent watching this scene.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: Like after I it wasn't like I'd forgotten this scene,
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: but you get through a whole book, it's not like
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: it's top of mind right to see this scene again
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: with almost as much intensity and tension, and even though
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: you know what's going to happen.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: I would say even more so, I would say it's
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: better written from parents POV than it is from RMS,
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: because from RAMS there's a lot of introspection and philosophy
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that. From Parents POV, it's just about
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: power and storm and danger and holy fuck, what is
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: going on? Like why is this affecting Telerondriod to this amount?
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: And you're like, well, the dragon's won with the land,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: and in a lot of ways, you know, tele around Riod,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: you know, still can't convince me that Teleron Riod isn't
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: the layer between us and the Dark ones prison or
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: is the dark One's prison in a lot of ways, right.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: Right, Also, Sanderson got to rewrite the scene, right, he
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: got to write this really really cool scene. And then
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: with Parent he was able to like come back with
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: a whole nother book of experience under his and like
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: do it again but better this time, which is pretty neat.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: And I think with Rand he was probably a little
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: more pinned down. There were probably per sure certain statements
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: he had to do, certain ideas was paren was totally undone.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: He's like, I'm just going to tell this from a
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: metaphysical point of view and see what happens and have
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: fun with him.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: And he'd already written it once, he'd like essentially rough
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: drafted it, and then he got to write it with
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: way less constraints, way less need to be in Jordan's
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: style of metaphysics, and more just like action sequence.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: Right. I would have loved a little more about like
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: Rand's brain and him like feeling like something changed in
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: his head.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: But amazing Athalon Sanderson writing about people doing better a
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: second time, but better the second time, very very better. Yeah. Yeah, Well,
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: you know Sanderson likes his nested, rushing dolls of plot stuff.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: So the sun comes out because again the dragon is
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: one with land and he's tappy again. So the sun's
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: out and that's very pacific northwest.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: The suns out, everyone go worship.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he looks up and laughs and it's like
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: ran laughing again, right, And this whole the whole quest
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: of cod Swain to make him laugh again and you know,
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: feel joy in his heart is finally fulfilled.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: He has to discover laughter and tears, and he's going
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: to discover laughter here, and then I think tears when
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: he goes to hug Tam, which is like in forty
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: eight hours, so close enough. Yeah, And then this sun
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: radiates outward. You know, the clouds open up in a
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: perfect circle. It's very strange, it's very eerie. And those
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: beams of light go shooting down to that tidy little
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: speck off on the little ribbon, which is Tarvallen, and
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: that's where we go for the epilogue.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, bathed in light because the light rays are hitting
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: Turbolin and are symbol is the uh snake in the
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: wheel because it's momentous. I suppose I just.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: Noticed the chapter title is bathed in light, and the
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: very first line of the sentence is or very first
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: sentence of the chapters Agwain worked by the light of
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: two lamps. Like we're gonna end with this like bathed
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: in like the glorious solar light. But we start out
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: with her just like in a dark room with little
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: little lamps, just contentedly being in our cozy little room
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: where she makes her own light. And it's fine.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: Cool ass lamps though, by the way, I mean.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: They are cool lamps. They are shaped like women holding
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: their hands into the air, a burst of flame appearing
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: in each set of palms, the calm yellow light reflected
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: on the curves of their hands, arms and faces. They
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: sound very cool. I want those lamps.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: Stat Yeah, a lamp that looks like someone tossing power.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: I do have a lamp that looks like a dragon
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: breathing fire, which is pretty cool. It's got its head
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: back and like the wit comes out of as its tongue,
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: and then it's an oil lamp.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's cool. That's neat, that's good. That's very comparable
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: to this in terms of like this fits the cannon
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: of the character that the lamp is shaped as.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: And I noticed she has a proper desk with a
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: proper chair to sit upon.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: Process chair.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not gonna fold underneath her.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: I noticed that.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: Also. Did we talk about how much like by spanking
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: her in the tower? They were literally beating the amberline seat?
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: Do you think you made that joke once and I
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: shut you down so you never make it again?
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: So gotcha? Gotcha? Gotcha?
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that's terrible, But I mean, you're not wrong,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: You're not wrong. I'm just mad about it.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: They're beating the amberline seat in more than one way.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: So Agwayne is thinking about all of the Alida stuff,
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: how she's got all of her stuff under lock and key.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: She's gonna look through it for patterns about other plots
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: that will come back to bite her in future years.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: Who knows what years Eliah's plots are going to come
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: back to bite a GWayne in the ass if only.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: If yeah, you know. And while she's dealing with those,
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: she's gonna deal with Romanda and l Lane for years
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: because they're such a pain in the ass because neither
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: of them were dark friends, and neither one of them,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: like they both wanted to be here keeper, and neither
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: one got to be, So now they're both kind of
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: working against her. They've kind of turned on her together.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll take years to resolve that, for sure.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: Years. It's a funny thing about death. Some suddenly things
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: just aren't your problem anymore.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: So Sylviana is a good keeper.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: We get some numbers on the Black Auja.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the black Auja stuff is. I don't remember it
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: being this bleak. I guess I don't read these books enough.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: It's so much worse than I remembered. Like almost all
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: the black auDA in the tower got away. I thought
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: it was a half. No, no, almost all of them.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: Ah, And she says the number goes up to eighty
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: if you count the other ones who got away.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: Rough that's a lot of dread lords.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: And I don't even know if they addressed the third
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: of the isid I who were just neither in the tower,
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: because like remember that when the breakup happens, there's like
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: a third independent. A third goes with the rebels and
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: a third stays in the tower.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: I think most of the third of the independents are
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: kads swainified.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: Now yeah, or have gone to one side or the other.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: They're in Rand's orbit, like yeah, like there's very few
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: that are not with one of the Isidi camps or
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: with Rand slash Caatswain.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: But I was just doing the math, and I was like, okay,
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: so let's say you've got got We know we had
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: about one thousand Isid I going into the start of
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: the series. We know about a third of them were
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: left in the tower. That brings us down to three
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: hundred and thirty three. We know fifty of them were
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: sent off to the Black Tower by Elaida, so that
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: brings us down to the like high two hundreds. Then
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: you've got sixty Black Sisters who sneak away.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: Well, also fifteen went to Rand.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fifteen went to Rand, to that delegation.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: And like one of those made it back, Like the
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: rest are all with Rand now or dead.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: That's two hundred tops left and then the forty the
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: forty that got captured by the shawn Chan. So now
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: you're talking at most one hundred and sixty sisters left
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: in the tower at most.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: Jesus, that is so few channels, especially if you're talking
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: about going up against one hundred and eighty or are
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: going up against eighty dread lords. That means you have
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: only a two to one advantage against the dread.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: Lords of the sisters left in the tower, right, yeah.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: I mean then you bring yeah, the rebels back in
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: and that that changes. But still, but still that is
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: there's just not a lot of eyes to die on
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: the table. Man.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: Wow, No, the White Tower is empty. I mean that
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: place is deserted right now.
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, I mean she talks about how there's kitchens
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: that haven't been opened up in centuries, but like it's
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: echoing even for the level of power down there, it is,
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: it's echoingly empty. And then yeah, some of the tread
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: lords aren't even end up really being the issue. The
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: Sharans are on much bigger issue, right, Really, that's a
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: fucking wild card.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we don't know what's coming in. But I
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: mean tread lords aren't helpful. For sure. They do some
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: bad stuff.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: They kill a lot of troops, but yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: well they take up a lot of the planning power
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: of the Eyes to die too.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: And just think about how much that cripples them though, right,
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: Like they've lost so many now and some of those
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: ice tod I are now coupled up with Aushamon, and
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: we'll still be fighting in the last battle.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: Right right. Again, not really in the plans for the
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: Eyes to die in the tower, but what we know
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: of the light sized total resources, they still exist, and.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: You could in some of the shan Chan I said,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: I probably fight in the last battle.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, definitely. Some of the Suldom Demani pairs go
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: into the last battle proper and do last battle things,
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: and one assumes that the Demani are less reluctant to
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: fight in that battle than any other battle because it's
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: literally the last.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: Battle and they can actually take down Shadow Spawn and
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: he's powers weapon against them and stuff like that.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: So, oh, you mean the I said, I take him
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: by the shan shan are actually able to Oh yeah, yeah.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: They would be like, no, no, no, this is actually
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: our o's allow us to do that. That's fine. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: I hope someone gets the memo to to the that. Well,
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: I don't want to.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: I still would have loved it. I would have loved
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: the scene where a GWayne is fighting the Sharens and
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: incomes the fucking Tuon with Elaida as her demane to
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: save her life.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 3: That would be spicy, and that would and fucking Ali
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 3: to be like help me, I'm a prisoner, and he'd
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 3: be like, I can't right now.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: Sorry, I literally can't right now. I'll get back to
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: you later.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: Go fight in the last battle in your own way.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: You'll at least be useful, right, How hardcore would that
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: have been?
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: I don't think we could all handle that much spicy.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: I think we would all implode trying to handle that
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: much spicy.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: But those three women, two On, Alida, and Aguaye all
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: in the same place after like fucking Tuon comes in
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: and say saves Agwaine's bacon from the Sharons and.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: A GWayne allows a woman to stay on leash because
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: that's what the world needs right now. And also fuck Alida.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: Just meanwhile, Matt's there trying to like moderate everybody.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: No one is listening to him, is like looking on
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: his hand, like you got to come away, dude, Like
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: come with me, run away.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: There there's so much good potential for stuff, man, because
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: like Tuon would totally use Alia because Alight is super powerful, right,
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: is one of the more powerful, you know, stronger tower.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: I said, I yeah, yeah, a moment where Tuon's I said,
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: I can't.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: All right, So we returned to considering Varren's thoroughness, and
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: they'd captured only three more Black sisters who hadn't been
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: on her list. Only three what accuracy? Again, we're talking
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: like a one percent fe rate against timany she did
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: positively identify, incredible because.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: There were what two that she didn't identify in the rebel.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: Camp something like that.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so like three more and then you know,
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: we're not absolutely sure that everybody who was out of
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: the tower, Like, it's still possible that a couple of
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: people who are out of the tower who didn't have
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: to reswear the o's and didn't make it onto Varen's
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: list could still be dark friends.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: There are still a handful, Yeah that could be so.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: But probably aren't just because they weren't on Varn's list
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: and like you'd think they would be around major events.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, don't know. There could be one like
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: got signed up to be a dark friend last week
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: and then all this shit goes down and she's just
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: kind of like hanging out like only legally inducted, but
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: not really like confident in her dark friendly skills just
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: like I guess never mind.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: They but they have that list. They're like, if you
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: come into camp and you're this is a very short
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: list of like ten sisters who could potentially be you know,
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: And so she's like, if you come into the camp,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: like I know, these were all non dark friends, so
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: they're going to test you, and we know who to
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: look out for, right, right, right. The only thing that
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: they don't have is we know Massana's still in the
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: camp and she somehow circumvented the three Oaths.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: Right, which is something that I was very surprised when
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: I came across reading this right the first time. I
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, so that method is beatable. Like I
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: thought that that was going to catch Massana and resolve
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: that somehow she was going to be one of the
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: sisters that had vanished or something, but no, no, we're
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: actually leaving her as a lingering threat for next book.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: Oh shit, And kind of one of the big plot
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: threat for GWayne, right is between Assassin's the lud Knives,
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: thank You, and then you've got Massana, oh long recording
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: session and you have those two threats and she's confusing them. Yeah.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we don't know exactly how Masana outsmarts the
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: oth Rod. We know that sayerin I think, comes up
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: with three different methods by which the oath Rod could
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: be beaten, and then says, by that logic, there are
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: methods I haven't thought of. So it's safe to assume
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: that Masana figured out one of these three or one
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 2: of the infinity that we can presume exist if these
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: three could be found.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: And the Word of Brandon basically says at one point
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: he was asked that, and he said she used one
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: of the three, and process of elimination basically says she
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: hit her voice said one thing, and everybody heard something else.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: And she's basically said I will do whatever I want,
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: and soar that on the oath.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: That honestly makes the most sense to me. Like, when
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: those three pathways get laid out, that does seem like
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: the least number of failable moving parts.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Or you know, the other theory I like is
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: she could swear not to be a dark friend. She
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: doesn't worship shaw Mayl, She's not a dark friend. She
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: could swear not to be of the Black Aja. She's
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: a foresaken, she's not part of that pathetic organization of
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: the Black Aja, right, Like she could swear that valid,
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: totally true and not. You know, she could totally say
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: that and then that's fine. They didn't ask are you
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: a forsaken?
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: That's true, that's true. I still think she went with
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: the voice changer one because it's the most solid because
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: then she's not magically bound to tell the truth period,
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: which why would she want that? So yeah, Sylviana comes
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: in at this point, after all this thinking about dark
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: friends and oath rods and stuff, Silviana comes in to
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: be like, I think there's an event that you should see.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: We should do a walk with no talk and go
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: look at this, and they do. They go to this
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: construction site where Agwayne is having the hole in the
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: wall retrofitted into an actual intentional window. So there's Stonemasons
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: being like, why is the homorline here? This is so awkward.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to have a lunch break, Like, and.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: That's the window that like the hole that looks at
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: directly out of Dragon Mount, because before there was no
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: view of dragon in the.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: Hall the tower. Yeah yeah, yeah, so when ever you're
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: in the Hall of the Tower you can look at
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: Dragon Mount, which seems very appropriate given the White Tower's
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: relative position to the whole dragon thing why Tarbaland is
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: positioned there literally, you know, And.
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of symbolism in terms of like turning
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: your back on Dragon mount and ignoring it and building
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: a wall where you can't see it, and then having
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: that open up and all of a sudden, the Dragon
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: Mountain is part of your daily existence and the dragon
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: and you have to deal with that and its existence
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: and the fact that he this is the last battle, right,
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: and you have a lighta who's turned her back on
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: the last battle and the dragon reborn.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: And you're literally letting the light in. Yeah, right, that's
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: what Rand is doing in this moment. That's what the
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: event is, right, letting the light in. She's letting the
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: light in in general. And now the light that Rand
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: is letting in can pass through into the tower and
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: allow her to see something has happened, and you know,
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: it sets her up well to allow him into the
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: tower later. Right, it's like, well, something's different, and.
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: It's the light that he's almost creating, right, because he's
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: one with the land. This is the light of his
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: soul shining out more than anything else.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: It's almost like he is the sun, because that's the
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: only place that sunlight is coming through like him and
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: the sun one and the same from where Taballa is sitting.
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I always think of it more of just like
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: he parts the clouds and allows that. He's the land
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: accepting the sun, because I always think the sun is
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: something external, like the sun's the creator in a lot
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: of ways. Yeah, and he's you know, accepting the power,
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: accepting the energy.
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's allowing it to pass through for the world. Right,
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: He's saying, the world may have the Sun. I will,
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: I will bring it into your reality. And GWayne recognizes
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: that that is not something that the omorland Seat shouldn't
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: put in the chronicles, so she literally turns to her
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: keeper of the chronicles and says, put pull star on
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: that day. We'll figure out what happened later. Something happened,
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: we need to know the day.
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: Leave room to say, on this day the dragon reborn
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: had an epiphany and didn't destroy the.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: World exactly exactly. We're gonna have celebrations on this date
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: at some point in the future.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: It's really like the day we didn't die yay.
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, we very nearly were catastrophe, a catastrophe,
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: like the world almost blinked out, but.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: It didn't and so yeah, there's just it's a beautiful light.
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they stand there and look at it and
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: are just like wow. And I guess I could read
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: that out. We've also got a prophecy at the end.
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: I feel like, just read the prophecy, right, Yeah.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: The ending of the book itself is like whatever, but
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: the prophecy is very cool, and I think it's worth
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: pointing out this is a shawn Chan prophecy.
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: Hmm.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: If you look at that where it's from cycle, Yeah, yeah,
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: from the House of Shondar. This is a shann Chan prophecy.
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: And I think that's it's interesting because this is Sanderson's
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: first book, right, and it's also the first time we've
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: gotten a shan Chan prophecy.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: I feel like we've gotten one more from a shan
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: Chan mouth, but not like at the end of a book.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah, that's what I meant, like in this
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: position in the book structure.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can always tell because usually from the
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: Corinthian cycle, and this is from the Senac cycle, which
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: is the sean Chan shall we say, the ishaan Al
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: version of the Koreathon cycle.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this is the King James cycle. All right,
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: so I guess with that, I'm ready to read us
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: out of this entire ass book.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: We finished the Sanderson book.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: Wow, we finished the Sanderson book. Okay. At the end
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: of time, when the many become one, the last storm
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: shall gather its angry winds to destroy a land already dying,
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: And at its center the blind man shall stand upon
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: his own grave. There he shall see again and weep
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: for what has been wrought from the prophecies of the
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: dragon Issanic cycle Malavesh official translation Imperial Record, House of Shondar,
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: fourth Circle of Elevation.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: But it will walk me through that prophecy.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: So at the end of an age, right, they say
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: at the end of time, But I assume that means
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: more like the end of an age.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: I mean the last battle, right, I mean? And again
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: this is this also adds in my feeling that the
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: end of time is this moment when rand could end.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: Oh that too, right, like this is the moment when
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: time could end.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and many become one might be like all the
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: different dragons coming together.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: I think that's him, Like, yeah, going back that integration
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: that happened.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the last storm shall gather its angry winds
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: to destroy a land already dying, ran powering up the
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: Chodon call from the top of Dragon Mount, prepared to
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: you know, finish it. And at its center, a blind
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: man shall stand upon his own grave.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: Literally Dragon Mount.
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he shall see again and weep for what
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: has been rot right, see again in terms of that reintegration,
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: understanding all of those cycles. And he doesn't actually weep
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: for what has been rot He laughs instead. And there's
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure if that's a tweak on the Ashamel
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: side of things, or if.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: That's what I was going to assume.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because if he destroys everything, then he will weep
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: for what has been wrought in the moments before he
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: destroys everything. But he laughed. What he actually did was laugh.
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: I would bet that that word is the only thing
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: this Shamel changed.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because a shameo didn't change much because people would
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: not accept a radical, massive overhaul. It had to be subtle,
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: in subtle errors that would drift into bigger errors. And also,
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, it could just be an innocent translation error,
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: because we know laughter and tears are paired as being
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: very important for this. So maybe one word got you know,
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: eaten off by a mouse or something.
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: But again, if if you look at the Missborn saga
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: and spoilers from the Missborn Saga, the whole plot of
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: that series turns on the evil god going back to
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: prophecy and changing words to make it fit whatever hero
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: he wanted to do things so he could motivate people.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: So the whole like the main character is driven by prophecies,
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: but those prophecies are being rewritten by.
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: The bad guy, right right, Yeah.
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: To get to get himself free, to get So it's
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: this whole like you have to take the power. It's
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: like this whole thing where it's like and I always
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: get it backwards. But like he changes the prophecies to say,
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: the selfless thing to do is give up the power
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: and give And what that actually means is giving it
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: up to the bad guy, whereas the original prophecies say
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: use it to keep the bad guy imprisoned.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: Subtle twist, profound difference.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly exactly to know that he does that, and like,
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: through individual word changes and stuff like that, I can
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: very much see him writing a prophecy saying, hey, here's
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: a little wink in a nod. This is from the
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: corrupted prophecy, and guess what, he didn't weep, he laughed.
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: And if you notice that, that's where the change is,
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: because it's different from what really happened.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: I'd never thought of that before, but I really like that.
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: I think that is. It ties up loose ends that
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know were loose. So I like it.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: You know, it's it's the whole thing. Where shall my cells?
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: I is? Shamael says, I sowed the seeds of destruction
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: down by the seashore. I sowed the seeds of destruction
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: by you know, seeding the sean Chan and their return. Right.
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: He set up their return as well, and timed it
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: through the prophecies.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: And sealed two dooms, one of this empire and one
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: yet to come. Yeah. He's a devious one.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: I mean yeah. And he existed the whole coming out
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: every thousand years for forty years. Kind of a cool
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: little plot, right that he's able to kind of he's
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: not there the whole time, but every time society gets going,
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: he's there to knock it back down again and reset
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: it and keep thinking from progressing by starting the Trollic Wars,
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: by starting the Battle of ard hawk Wing, and then
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: by you know, essentially what he's doing now, which is
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: the Last Battle? Right? Are the three big wars of
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: the past thousand I mean, for if you want to count,
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: you know, the War of the Power sure, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: Shawmele's involved in that. And then you've got you know,
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: the Trollic War A thousand years later, you've got Alectra
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: hawk Wing A thousand years later, you have the Last
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: Battle and the Shawn Mayel's a key figure in all
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: of those. A lot of battle, a lot of battle. Well,
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: thank you for joining me for this book.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: That was fun, That was really fun. It was a
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: wild experience doing our first Sanderson book.
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: Isn't Sanderson a completely different experience than Jordan's?
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: So different? Wildly different. Yeah, absolutely, Bonker's Ride. I'm glad
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: you were able to wrap this up before Waltcon. As
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: a reminder to our audience, we will be taking next
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: week off of recording to prepare for wat Con. The
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: subsequent week we'll be recovering from Walk and then the
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: third week we will come back for Tangents, where we
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: will probably talk a lot about WALKCN I might put
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: some rewinds up in the feed in the meantime, but
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: we're not going to be here recording for two weeks.
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, i'd say walk on and probably also like what
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: it's like to podcast through Sanderson. I can't imagine that's
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: not going to come up to like sort of a
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: retrospective on that whole book we just covered, because we
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: always kind of talk about the whole book, right for sure?
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 2: For sure, And so yeah, that'll be that'll be the
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: rest of July. In August we will be starting on
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: the next book wild right, But yeah, thank you everyone
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: for joining us here in live. I really do appreciate
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: all of you. Looking forward to seeing some of you
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: at lock Con. Yeah, this is a wild journey to
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: be on.
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, two and a half books left right, like.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: Two in a prolog?
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: Really yeah great that the prolog is my half.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's wild. This is a bonker's day.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: I didn't forget here. Here we are so thank you
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: everyone for being along for the journey. Thank you for
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. Please rate
• 1:41:37
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• 1:41:40
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• 1:41:44
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• 1:41:47
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