Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Jason Thompson about his choice of The Sea Devils (3/6)

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Talks to Jason Thompson about his choice of The Sea Devils (3/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:00
Welcome back to A Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife the Doctor Who
0:05
Commentary podcast. I am still here and still here
0:10
with the wonderful Joe Ford. And today we are going to be
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talking about episode three of the Sea Devils.
0:18
You looking forward to it, Joe? I am.
0:20
So it's the fly that just came in the window there, you may
0:22
hear buzzing around the room. Yeah, indeed it's.
0:26
A bit of a monster. I believe this is the episode of
0:29
the Sea Devils where we're introduced to the submarine.
0:34
It may well be that goes, I can't remember to be honest.
0:36
That goes to investigate now. Barry Letts says on many a
0:39
commentary, when they had a 6th parter they always had to add
0:44
like a subplot or an extra element like the plague and the
0:47
Silurians. Subplot.
0:48
See what you did. There, Thank you very much.
0:51
That was entirely accidental, I assure you.
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And it is true. And I think the stories that
0:56
suffer is stuff like Monster or Peloton where you effectively
0:59
have, you know, well, I suppose the Ice Warriors are the the big
1:03
extra in sort of episode 3 of that one.
1:07
Yeah. And I I don't think it's until
1:09
we get to Hinge Cliffs Time where the six parts are actually
1:13
paced, something like Genesis and the Daleks, where it starts
1:17
out very open and then gets more claustrophobic as the story goes
1:22
along. Once, once Hinchcliffe actually
1:24
started stamping his thing on it, they started viewing 6
1:29
parters as 4 + 2, four 2 + 4. Like The Seeds of Doom has two
1:36
episodes in the Antarctic. Then it moves it's.
1:38
A savvy move, isn't it? Invasion of Time, 4 episodes of
1:41
the Gardens and two episodes of the Sontarans and even the
1:44
talents of Wang Chiang to a point, suddenly sort of switches
1:47
direction after episode 4. Even the three doctors, it goes
1:51
to three different locations for each episode.
1:56
It's so it sort of shifts each time.
1:59
Yeah, yeah, you kind of have to do it.
2:01
Have you? Because you know, like what is
2:03
it? 2 1/2 hours?
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That's a long running time. It is a long running time and
2:09
it's, you know, and I've, I've said this before, but I keep
2:12
seeing people on Twitter complaining about it.
2:15
And, you know, so, oh, these are so long and so boring.
2:19
It's like, yeah, but you weren't supposed to watch them in one
2:23
sitting. You were supposed to watch 25
2:25
minutes of television and be carried along.
2:27
And the fact that it was still telling the same story six weeks
2:29
later and coming to an end is beside the point.
2:32
Really. You're not supposed to sit there
2:33
and watch from episode one to episode 6 all in one sitting.
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Actually give what? Under those circumstances, I
2:40
think if you watch just 25 episodes, 25 minutes a weeks, 25
2:44
episodes, 25 minutes a week, that must feel like it goes by
2:47
in a heartbeat. Like, you know, watching it live
2:50
at the time. Yeah, it must have.
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I mean, I remember doing, watching the repeats and
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thinking, you know, I've got to wait a week to find out what
2:57
happens next. That's.
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Well, guess what? You haven't got away a week.
3:01
This time, baby, we're going straight into Episode 3.
3:04
Let's do it. Let's go to Episode 3.
3:06
Count as in Joe, I thought. Yeah, Joe, I'll make you count
3:09
one and two, didn't I you? Did so you count as in I'll do.
3:11
Three and four, then you do that.
3:13
I'm not scared to pull my weight in 54321.
3:22
Off we go. Now back to the Wick pan.
3:30
OK, I don't know what's happened there.
3:32
OK, weird things going on with the Blu-ray player here.
3:36
OK, keep talking. I'll keep talking.
3:39
So yeah. So we would try and watch
3:41
episode three of the Sea Devils, but.
3:44
Suddenly we have a message coming up that says copyright
3:46
violation. Yeah, all we want to do is play
3:49
it I. Assure you, I own this Blu-ray.
3:51
I paid good money for it. I can see the box set and
3:54
everything, it's all legit and above board OK.
3:58
Hang on a second. In 54321 off we go.
4:08
Second time lucky because we just had a copyright violation
4:10
message. And I assure you, it's not a
4:13
bootleg Blu-ray set. You can't buy those vanilla ones
4:16
now can't you? That doesn't have the artwork.
4:19
You know, the sort of cheaper ones you look confused at, as if
4:22
there was like a criminal market for Doctor Who Blu rays.
4:25
That may well be I'll. Put you in touch with the right
4:27
person or. I I get the special edition box
4:30
sets, I pre-order them, I get them all sent through.
4:32
Can I ask you right, you know, they did that documentary sex,
4:37
lies and videotapes when people were, you know, doing illicit
4:41
deals with people copying VHSS or Doctor Who back in the day.
4:45
Did you have a supplier? No, but I did have a couple of
4:49
bootleg copies which are acquired at a comic there
4:55
actually, the comic exhibition in Hove and Colin Baker was the
5:01
guest I remember, and I remember it distinctly because I may have
5:05
mentioned this on a previous podcast.
5:07
The guest panel took place in Hove Town Hall in the Council
5:12
chambers, which was basically a room with a raised desk at the
5:17
front and semicircular desks with microphones and desk lamps
5:21
and things. So it kind of looked like an
5:22
official, like UN meeting or something.
5:24
Wow. We were all sat round talking to
5:26
Colin Baker and Michael. Jason turned up unexpectedly.
5:29
Oh, you have told me this? Yes.
5:31
So I think I have mentioned that before, but in the.
5:34
Do your bootleg copies. Well, in the dealer's area was
5:37
somebody who had bootleg copies of or.
5:39
Selling them at an event. Orphaned episodes and audio
5:43
cassettes of missing episodes and I acquired they were.
5:48
They were not expensive, but I acquired Avhs of the Reign of
5:53
Terror, Parts 123 and Six and the 10th Planet One to Three.
6:00
Wow. And an audio cassette with
6:01
Mission to the Unknown and the 10th Planet Part 4.
6:04
And are The 10th Planet and the Reign of Terror two of your
6:07
favourites? No, it was a good thing.
6:13
They weren't expensive though, didn't it?
6:15
I mean, I enjoyed because obviously they were new Doctor
6:17
Who for me then, you know, But they were Duff quality fuzzy,
6:22
you know, You couldn't see that the Cybermen's head were held
6:25
together with Sellotape in in my VHS copy of the 10th.
6:28
Plan. Oh, I've had that conversation
6:29
with people you know, you know, especially about the mind
6:32
robber, not Cytomorama. You may have mentioned that once
6:35
or twice. Once or 10 times, yeah, but it
6:38
but it is true sometimes. The more you clean something up,
6:41
the less visually impressive it looks.
6:45
Oh yeah, I. Mean, weirdly enough.
6:47
I've seen people pointing out things like in the The Next
6:50
Generation, The Star Trek, The Next Generation Blu-ray
6:52
Remastered and now you can see the wood grain.
6:54
Those sets looks terrible. And the cardboard?
6:57
Yeah, things like that. It's very unfortunate.
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And you can see in crystal clear, you know, Beverly crushes
7:02
Overdone blusher. Yeah, things like this.
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They weren't supposed to be seen with that degree of clarity.
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I think this is the first time, you know, Trenchard really
7:11
thinks what have I got involved in here?
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Because he, the Master, genuinely did try and kill the
7:17
Doctor then. Yes, definitely.
7:20
That's what works about the cliffhanger for me, not so much
7:22
as I know. You're right, we're never going
7:24
to have a a knife thudding into the Doctor's back, and that's
7:27
going to be the end of him. But the Master is genuinely
7:29
trying to kill him. Yeah, and it is a significant
7:32
point in the plot, as you say, with Trenchard realising that
7:36
actually something is going on. But the Master manages to talk
7:39
him round again. What's fabulous now is Pearl.
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We can just drop all the pretence and just basically be
7:45
like, oh, Trench, should you fall, you know what's up with
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this guard? Oh, he's been hypnotised, isn't
7:51
he? Can I ask you about the crimes
7:57
against moustaches in the 70s? The facial hair on the guards in
8:03
the story is is a. It's almost a character in its
8:05
own right. It's not as bad as colony in
8:07
space. Oh.
8:09
The moustache budget for that story was through the roof.
8:15
Yes. Yeah, see, we do this again,
8:17
don't we? We've got Trenchard basically
8:19
building a case against the Doctor.
8:21
But Hulk has great fun with that in Frontier in space, doesn't
8:24
he? Where there's all those
8:25
ridiculous crimes that the Doctor supposedly committed.
8:28
Yeah. This is kind of, I mean, I know
8:39
people talk about Doctor Who being scary in terms of the
8:41
monsters and the aliens and things like that.
8:44
For me, a lot of the scary stuff in Doctor Who comes when the
8:47
characters find themselves in situations where the officials.
8:52
Are. Basically denying them the
8:55
opportunity to get away or put their case or whatever.
8:59
Like here Trenchard is just no, you can't make a phone call.
9:02
I'm going to tear up your past because I think it's a forgery,
9:04
because I'm in this position of power and authority and I can do
9:06
this to you. And Frontier in Space is a
9:11
classic example of that. Because they're going to, you
9:14
know, the mask, the Doctor is going to be sent to the Lunar
9:16
Penal Colony, Joe's going to go to prison or whatever.
9:20
It's just because nobody is actually listening to them.
9:22
And even to the point where General Williams puts the Doctor
9:25
under the mind probe, which they say is the way of getting the
9:27
truth. But because it doesn't give him
9:30
the truth he wants, he still carries on and everything else.
9:34
And for me, that's even more terrifying than finding yourself
9:36
face to face with an alien. It's.
9:38
Unrealistic. Is it because we know there are
9:40
people that have been caught up in the legal system unjustly?
9:44
Absolutely, we do. And that's, you know, that's
9:48
scary because it's possible that you might encounter it yourself.
9:52
One of the reasons why I don't get very scary loads, I admire
9:56
about the John Perry era, and I think in terms of comfort,
10:00
Doctor Who, this is my era, This is, this is what when I get up
10:04
on a bad day, I'll come home and I'll put on a John Perry story.
10:08
One of the reasons why it doesn't frighten me like some of
10:10
the other eras is because he's so stalwart.
10:13
And I'm I'm always absolutely sure that Jon Pertwee will
10:17
prevail from the first second. Whereas if I watch something
10:20
like a Trouton story where he allows himself to be frightened
10:26
and scared and I get a bit of anxiety, like as a child I had,
10:31
like, I remember watching the mind robber and all that sort
10:33
of, Oh no, in the TARDIS. At the beginning I was like, oh,
10:37
what's going on? It's in the TARDIS.
10:38
The Doctor's scared, you know, like I'm not safe.
10:42
And you do get the feeling sometimes with the other with
10:44
some of the other doctors, you get the feeling that they win by
10:46
luck rather than anything else. Whereas with John Pertwee, you
10:50
definitely think he's in control.
10:52
Even when he's in a situation which looks bad, you get he
10:58
seems so relaxed and he's like, well, something will come along,
11:01
I will be able to figure out. I'm just waiting for my
11:03
opportunity to figure out a way to get out of this.
11:06
And it's what it's something, actually.
11:07
I don't often throw too many compliments towards the Peter
11:10
Davidson era, but he he was allowed to be scared and anxious
11:15
as well, and Davidson played those moments really, really
11:18
well. There is one cliffhanger, you
11:20
know, I know you loathe. I think you gave it one out of
11:23
10/2. But I think it's a great moment
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because it shows a doctor scared horror.
11:31
Fight rock. Episode three.
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No, no. No, no, no, no.
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Terrible, terrible cliffhanger. I've locked it in here with us
11:41
terribles. Oh no.
11:45
Terrible. Terrible.
11:45
Cliff. Oh, did you see that?
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How how very kind of you. How very kind of you.
11:51
Oh, now the master's wearing his proper.
11:54
He's back in his master gear now.
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All pretence has gone. Black outfit.
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Now I cannot remember the fella's name, which is annoying
12:02
because he played Rascal on in Hellbent and he played Erasmus
12:06
Darkling in The Sarah Jane Adventures.
12:09
Donald Sumter, who is going to pop up here.
12:12
He is beautiful in this story. Of the submarine and had
12:17
previously been Enrico Casali in the wheel in space of.
12:20
Course he was, yeah. Was he as?
12:23
A little bit, yeah. Yeah, I'm putting on an accent,
12:26
but as such holds the record currently.
12:29
What for most reappearances. Not for most reappearances, but
12:32
for the longest gap between 1st and most recent from the guests.
12:37
OK, William Russell of course shattered that in the power of
12:40
the Doctor, but in terms of guest cast, you don't who aren't
12:43
regulars. Donald Sumter had 47 years
12:46
between the wheel in space and hell bent.
12:49
Well and. I think Arthur Cox had had it up
12:52
to that point with the domination.
12:54
To 11. Power.
12:55
But yeah, Donald Sumter has now shattered that.
12:57
And of course, William Russell has just He's in the Guinness
13:01
World Records now. What for having the?
13:04
For the longest gap between his last and most recent appearance
13:09
as the same character in the same TV show, it's obviously 57
13:12
years, but. I just basically wanted to warn
13:14
you that every time we go down into the submarine I will be
13:18
getting a little bit horny because he does look beautiful
13:21
in that naval uniform. OK, I would not say that about
13:25
Raslod and Hell, Ben. Thank you for the warning.
13:28
You're welcome. Oh, here comes the sub now.
13:30
Here comes. The submarine now, yeah.
13:32
It's is it going under? You have been in a submarine.
13:37
I have not been in a submarine. I have been in a submarine.
13:39
I'm telling you now, it ain't as big as they make it appear in
13:42
this. No, that's one thing I do know
13:45
it's. Fucking cramped, doesn't it?
13:47
Well, apparently. Have you ever heard Jon
13:50
Pertwee's one Man show that he did about the year before he
13:53
died? No, it has too many silly voices
13:55
in those shows, you know. I it's great, But he said when
13:58
he when he joined the Navy, he was first assigned 2 submarines
14:02
and he was 6 foot 2 1/2. Oh dear.
14:04
He had to stoop a lot there. But he said he said he recounts
14:09
that every time the commanding officer went pert, we went Sir,
14:12
and he banged his head. Every time.
14:14
And apparently, the way he tells it, he went round with a plaster
14:18
on his head and his commanding officer's head, that that wound
14:22
is taking a long time to hear. So I haven't got one.
14:24
I'm wearing this so I don't get one.
14:25
So they got him transferred. Another thing that barrier let's
14:29
offers us on commentaries is how John Perry can embellish a tale
14:33
for entertainment purposes. He.
14:35
Can absolutely the one. Two days it's highest in
14:41
Bouquet's neighbour from keeping up appearances.
14:44
Yeah, Emmett from keeping up appearances.
14:46
There's Donald. Some he.
14:47
Hasn't changed a bit. Look at him, He looks exactly
14:49
the same in the in the 90s. I I believe their relationship
14:57
him and the first officer in. This that is nicely done.
15:00
And I love the scenes as well. I think there might be all sort
15:03
of padding going under the war and that, but I love the scenes
15:06
where the crew are trying to retake the ship as well and
15:10
there's lots of sort of invisible signalling going on
15:12
between them. They feel like a like an
15:14
effective unit that work together.
15:17
And this is. And every time they do this,
15:20
they put the Doctor at a disadvantage and the Master in
15:22
control. I love it.
15:28
There's that glorious scene in Mind of Evil where the Master's
15:33
sitting in the governor's chair and the Doctor gets brought in
15:35
at gunpoint and it's like, oh, how's the riot going, you know?
15:42
Now look here, we haven't talked about Malcolm Clark.
15:44
We haven't have we and his music in inverted commas.
15:51
Actually, I rather like the music in the CD.
15:53
You're joking me. I really rather like it.
15:57
It's a series of electronic bloops and blocks.
16:00
Yeah, but it's different. The only thing I didn't like was
16:03
when they did that in episode one when we first see trend
16:06
chart they it went for a really high pitched and in the BFI that
16:10
was like somebody sticking an ice pick through your head.
16:13
But other than that, I rather like it.
16:15
It's something different and it's stand.
16:16
It makes this story stand out as well.
16:19
It's very interesting to Mark Ayers talk about Malcolm Hulk
16:23
and Tristan Carey in the one of the documentaries because he
16:27
says just this sort of period of experimentation is so much more
16:31
interesting than sort of the usual Dudley Simpson scores.
16:35
Now they're great, but shaking it up with something a little
16:39
more risque. Yeah, I.
16:41
Definitely agree with Dudley. Simpson's music is absolutely
16:43
fantastic. But when I think about how many
16:47
episodes he scored, and I think how many of those actually stuck
16:53
in my mind as soundtracks, not many of them do.
16:57
There's a couple of really good ones.
16:58
I mean, City of Death is gorgeous.
17:00
Excuse me? You and me were singing that.
17:05
Genesis of the Daleks, Evil of the.
17:07
Dialects. There you go.
17:08
Yeah, there are a couple that really bang, but there are loads
17:14
more which just sound very much like every other Doctor Who of
17:19
the time. Because with the best will in
17:21
the world, you can't do the same job over and over and over again
17:26
without getting the sound a bit repetitive.
17:29
Even Murray Gold in the in the. Oh yeah, definitely.
17:33
Some of the tracks actually really stick out and they're
17:36
brilliant, but a lot of the music is very much kind of how.
17:40
It's just the same kind of thing.
17:43
Bailey Simpson just he heightens the melodrama as suspense.
17:48
He does. He.
17:48
He punctuates Doctor Who brilliantly.
17:52
He does. He does a fantastic job.
17:54
What's really weird is I watched I did a marathon a while ago of
18:00
my various TV shows, not only Doctor Who, but the other things
18:04
I had on DVD from the same period and put them in at the
18:07
same time to kind of because I like seeing things in context.
18:10
You think what else was on at the time and how did it look?
18:14
Because those people saying, oh, you know, Doctor Who looks cheap
18:16
in this era and say, yeah, but so did everything else.
18:19
Like in the late 1970s, inflation was screwing up the
18:22
budgets for Doctor Who, but it was knackering the budget for
18:24
everything else as well. So everything looked a bit cheap
18:26
at that time. Graham Williams had a Pertwee
18:30
budget. He would have found it
18:31
luxurious. But what's really weird is
18:33
watching Doctor Who alongside Blake 7 because Dudley Simpson
18:38
scored both of them up until 1980.
18:42
My boy just played seven music. Quite repetitive.
18:45
Yeah, and then he goes on to he carries on with Blake 7 for two
18:48
more years, but Doctor Who goes to Paddy Kings and the
18:51
Radiophonic Workshop, and it kind of feels like a weird sort
18:55
of time warp going on with Blake 7, because, you know, it's
18:57
alongside Doctor Who, but it's the the sound feels like a
19:02
couple of years. It feels old fashioned.
19:05
Doesn't it? It doesn't.
19:06
It hasn't moved along with everything else.
19:09
And I know, I know, the sort of electronic music has dated now
19:12
as well. Oh.
19:13
Bounty. It all feels like Zelda and
19:16
Mario brothers, yeah? Absolutely.
19:18
But so the the fact that Malcolm Clark is doing something
19:22
different and experimental with this one makes it stand out and
19:26
I think it really works. I like it.
19:28
There's certain cues. I think one of the reasons I I
19:31
had difficulty with the Sea Devils initially was one, that
19:34
ugly location work which was graded badly on the VHS release,
19:38
and two was that screaming music.
19:41
So I think I had to get over those two things in order to
19:44
find lots that I enjoyed in this.
19:47
I think the VHS release, I think, I think it is it 3.
19:49
The first three episodes of this were brought back as NTSC copies
19:53
from the US, so it's kind of tough quality to.
19:56
Begin with it was really bad. It looks in beautifully
19:59
remastered. Gorgeous, sorted out now, but
20:03
yeah, it was a bit I iced out. Joe just made-up the plan and
20:09
managed to communicate silently to the doctor.
20:12
Then he distracted the guard. She came in with her escapology.
20:16
I mean, she's got some agency here.
20:18
I think she's great. Oh yeah, she's really good.
20:21
It's so weird. I find that her scripts veer
20:23
between her being a sort of a child who needs everything
20:28
explained to her in very sort of minute detail, to being just
20:33
remarkably competent and effective.
20:35
Like in the mind of evil when she picks up that gun and she
20:38
helps take down the riot, you know?
20:39
She's variable in terms of her competence.
20:42
They do kind of lampshade it a bit in the Time Monster when she
20:45
says. I know I'm exceedingly dim, but
20:46
would you explain it to? Me.
20:49
Oh, the word this submarine. There's a great story around
20:52
that, isn't there? Oh, the Ministry of Defence.
20:54
How did you get this classified design?
20:55
I didn't. I just made it up.
20:59
Isn't it so? Michael Bryant says.
21:01
Apparently this Admiral, retired Admiral, watched this on the TV.
21:07
This is why they came in and and and was like they've got top
21:11
secret submarine plans, blah, blah blah.
21:14
And then when they actually watched the footage they were
21:16
like, it's nothing like it at all.
21:19
The man's gone mad. I don't know if it's true, but
21:23
it's a great anecdote. Yeah, this is really effective
21:26
that. Is brilliant, listening to the
21:28
voices from the other sections in the submarine talking about
21:31
how things. Are fading out and then you get
21:34
the submarine alone in the water.
21:37
It's everything you need. It is.
21:39
And that's that's something I think is really effective in.
21:46
In various series, when something is going on elsewhere.
21:50
Instead you focus on the people stuck at the command area or
21:54
whatever who can't do anything about it, and they're just
21:56
hearing everything going wrong around them and they're stuck
21:59
impotently unable to help. And I think that's really,
22:03
really good, really dramatic. It's like I said to you earlier,
22:07
the things that scared me, it was adults in in an anxious
22:11
situation, you know, usually in situations of peril.
22:15
So something like, I mean, I've recently done a commentary on
22:18
resurrection of the dialects. I know I don't really like it
22:20
very much for various reasons, but the sequences where, you
22:24
know, where the dialects just pour into the command centre and
22:28
all those, they're all just terrified and they just get
22:30
gunned down. As a kid, that really scared me.
22:33
Yeah, yeah, I can see you. So that was very effective, that
22:39
that scene on the subway. And then in a minute you get the
22:42
door melting as well. Yes.
22:43
Which is marvellous because it's for for a second it looks very
22:47
solid, and then it all just starts dripping.
22:49
And then it just starts flopping, doesn't it?
22:51
Yeah. And you think, fuck me, what are
22:53
the seagulls? You know what?
22:54
Power. That's how to do it.
22:56
Unlike Moyes of the Deep, where they get a couple of quilts and
22:59
mattresses as doors, they just. I'm not sure this would work,
23:04
you know. Oh, I suppose she does punch him
23:08
OK. She does, but again, the whole
23:10
knocking somebody out with a karate chop is a little bit of
23:13
dramatic licence. Yeah, Barry Let says on the
23:15
commentary that the guards and Doctor Who have very weak necks.
23:19
Guards and Doctor Who? They're all useless.
23:23
My favorite one is, you know they are the Daleks.
23:26
Oh oh help 00. The fella comes in and she
23:30
smashes him over the head with a vase.
23:34
So. And that guy's still
23:38
unconscious. He's going to need hospital
23:39
treatment if he's been rendered unconscious for that long.
23:43
What's the end of episode 3? I can't remember now.
23:46
You can't remember the end of episode three of the Sea Devils.
23:49
It's the absolutely iconic sea devil on the beach.
23:52
Oh, I wasn't sure if that was three or four, because look at
23:55
this. What'll work of the submarine
23:57
heading towards the seabed? I don't know.
23:59
That looks great. It does look pretty good.
24:01
They're shooting it on film, that's why.
24:03
Model work on film always looks better than model work on video.
24:07
And we cut. The editing is good as well.
24:09
We cut straight into the interior of the submarine, with
24:11
everyone sort of falling about and a bit of shaky sort of Star
24:14
Trek camera work as well. No, no, because I wanted to talk
24:18
about Trenchard because he's departing.
24:21
The story soon isn't. He he will be next episode, yes.
24:25
And oh, was it in the next episode?
24:28
Yeah. OK.
24:29
I'll wait for the moment then, because I want to talk about the
24:31
book. Yes.
24:33
And and how that differs in the book.
24:35
Yeah. Oh, did you notice as well?
24:40
He does this sort of twitch when there's like situations,
24:45
apparently. The camera, I think he does it
24:47
now. It's awesome.
24:49
It starts. Yeah, there it is.
24:55
But technically all this sub stuff is unnecessary to the
24:58
plot. What What's it adding?
25:00
It's. Adding a way for the Doctor to
25:03
get out of the Sea Devil thing when he goes down there later
25:07
because he escapes on the submarine.
25:09
Oh, that's true. But that's a long, that's a long
25:11
game to get to, to the point. It is, but it's, you know, if
25:14
you're going to put something in like that, make it relevant,
25:17
Make do something else with it. Are you sure that music's good?
25:20
They just had plinky, plonky run across the the field music
25:25
there. It's not all fabulous, but some
25:27
of it is really good. But I generally like the
25:30
soundtrack for this because it is so.
25:31
Different. I feel very sorry for those
25:34
people. You know the same.
25:35
Clip that I knew that that propped up in resistance is
25:38
useless. What's that?
25:40
That we shall use it to track them all together.
25:42
And he turns on that machine. Oh, apparently this whole
25:46
sequence wasn't it. It was a massive abseiling
25:49
sequence that they were going to do.
25:51
And the reason why we basically cut from the top to the bottom
25:54
is because the mist rolled in and you couldn't see a bloody
25:58
thing. So they had to abandon the whole
26:00
shoot and come back later and just film what they absolutely
26:03
needed to tell the story. There's still an awful lot of
26:08
location work there. Normally in a 70s Doctor Who
26:11
story, you get a ton in episode one, a bit in episode 2, and
26:14
then it sort of gets less and less as the story goes on.
26:17
There is a lot of location work. Do you think that's something to
26:20
do with purse pedal on, having none at all?
26:25
Oh, I'm sure that the budgeting was sorted out so that they
26:29
could have more location footage.
26:31
There's quite a bit in the Mutants as well.
26:33
That's true. Actually there's fair bit in
26:35
time. There's a fair bit in Season 9
26:37
generally location work. I think you know they the.
26:42
Pentagon's the only one that doesn't have any.
26:43
I think they did have a bit more money at this point, but I think
26:45
Barry Letts just kept saying he kept asking and they kept giving
26:48
them a little more, but then they were raking it in from the
26:51
colour licences, weren't they at this point?
26:54
Oh crash zoom on. Danger minefield, Danger
26:57
minefield. So I'm assuming you like this
27:02
cliffhanger. Yeah.
27:07
It's not a little undramatic, though, the way it just sort of
27:09
got up there. I think it's more effective
27:19
later when loads of them come out and he keeps cutting back to
27:22
different directions to make it look as if there's a whole army
27:24
and see if it's coming out of the water.
27:28
Yeah, I mean, Doctor Who directors are all masters,
27:31
generally of making it look like you've got more aliens than you
27:34
actually have, whether it's Daleks, going round in circles
27:39
through doors and things like that.
27:41
Do you know I'd go as five just to go back to where we started
27:44
this episode. You know, talking about the the
27:46
length of the story, I'd go to say there's two things that are
27:49
really smoothing out the length of this and sort of distracting
27:55
us from the fact that we're running on the spot a little
27:58
bit. One is the stylish direction and
28:02
the other is Malcolm Hulk's sort of layer of character work that
28:06
he puts in. Yeah, I would think that's a
28:10
that's a fair assessment. If you're going to write 2 1/2
28:13
hours worth of story, you need to make sure that you've got
28:17
enough to keep it going. And the fact the way this one it
28:22
doesn't introduce all the characters at the beginning and
28:24
then stick with them for six episodes you get new characters
28:27
popping up like the submarine crew and and so on throughout
28:31
and the sea. Devils themselves so.
28:33
Far I think turns up in episode 5 or it might be 4, I can't
28:38
remember. It really annoys me, you know,
28:41
because I like a bit of rough cut marmalade as well.
28:45
It's very annoying. Well, look, should we head into
28:48
Episode 4? I think we should see head into
28:50
episode. Four, like you said, we've just
28:52
had the iconic moment where the sea devil rises up out of the
28:55
water. I'd imagine that's the sort of
28:57
cliffhanger that was on everyone's lips.
28:59
You know the kids at school the next day.
29:01
Quite possibly, and it's a measure of the confidence in the
29:03
production as well, that the cliffhanger involves a close up
29:06
of the monster mask. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:09
Yeah. They're not in the distance,
29:10
they're right up in the camera. Regardless of what Uncle Brian
29:14
might think, I think it's a good mask.
29:17
Oh, I think they're brilliant, yeah.
29:19
Well, let's go into four then. Sure.
29:21
Let's do that.