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Did OJ Simpson confess to butchering Nicole Brown Simpson & Ronald Goldman? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius x M Triumph
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. Orenthal James Simpson O J. Simpson
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: seems like we never hear the end of him. He
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: allegedly quote confesses to murdering his wife. Is that a
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: big surprise to everybody? Saying he stabbed her dead after
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Ron Goldman tried to fight him when he went to
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: confront Nicole about her alleged sex life. Oh, it's easy
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: to come up with ways to trash Nicole Brown now
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: that she's cold and dead in the grave. But now
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: a tidal wave of anger has been unleashed after all
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: this time, Simpson confesses and it is caught on tape.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: being with us. Joining me of course, is Alan Duke. Alan, Uh,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: you're there in l A weighing in on this, Nancy.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: The story of how this apparent confession video was lost
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: for a dozen years is crazy. I was invited to
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Fox Studios in Los Angeles to view the raw video
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: even as they were still working to turn it into
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: the documentary that just aired. Work on the original documentary
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: was abandoned in two thousand and six. For what reason,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but I was told it was forgotten
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: about lost found only in recent weeks when they were
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: clearing out an office at Fox Television. When they put
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: the tape in an old machine to see what it was.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: They were stunned, but quickly realized how valuable and significant
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: it was, and it took them little time to hire
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Solo Dad O'Brien to help turn it into the show
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  Speaker 1: that was aired this month by Fox Television. Let's just
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: kick it off. Take a listen to O J. Simps
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: in his own words, six uninterrupted minutes. O J puts
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: himself hypothetically at the scene of the crime um the chapter,
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  Speaker 1: chapter six is called the Night in Question. Uh, and
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: you write in the book, now picture this and keep
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: in mind that this is hypothetical, hypothetical. Why don't you
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: tell me what might have happened on the night of
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: June and let's just walk through the night. Well, first
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: of all, it's this is very difficult for me to
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  Speaker 1: do this. It was very difficult for me because it's hypothetical.
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  Speaker 1: I know, and I accept the fact that people are
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: gonna feel whatever way they're gonna feel. You know, they're
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: gonna umiled some whatever whatever they want to feel. In
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  Speaker 1: the book, the hypothetical is, uh, Charlie, Charlie. Uh, this
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  Speaker 1: guy Charlie shows up, the guy who had recently become
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: friends with and uh, I don't know why you had
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: been by the col's house, but it told me you
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: wouldn't believe what's going on over that. And and I
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: remember thinking, well, whatever is going over there's got to stop, right.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: So we kind of hooked up together, and you know,
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  Speaker 1: I'm kind of broad stroking this. We go over, get
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: into Bronco and go over. Let's just go back and
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  Speaker 1: do the details. Where did your part? You park and
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  Speaker 1: I put that in the alley. The park in the alley,
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  Speaker 1: and you've put on of well cap and gloves. Uh Ina.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I put on the cap and gloves, and um, you
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: reached under the seat for a knife. I always kept
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  Speaker 1: a knife and not car for the crazies and stuff,
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  Speaker 1: because you can't travel with a gun. And I remember
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  Speaker 1: Charlie saying, you ain't bringing it. I didn't, all right,
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  Speaker 1: but I believe he took it. Charlie took the knife.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: In the book, yes, so the back gate, you go
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: through the back gate, yes, And it was open or
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  Speaker 1: broken or I don't recall. I go to the front
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  Speaker 1: and I'm looking to see what's going on. Um, and
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  Speaker 1: I can see that it appears in the Cole had flop.
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  Speaker 1: I had candles all the time. She really did to
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: keep her overhead down, I think. And music was on.
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  Speaker 1: And while I was there, a guy shows up. So
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  Speaker 1: Ron Goldman comes in the back edge. Yeah, I got
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  Speaker 1: I really didn't recognize I may have seen him around,
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  Speaker 1: but I really didn't recognize him to be anyone. And Uh,
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  Speaker 1: and in the mood I was in, I started having
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  Speaker 1: words with him. He says, to you, I just came
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  Speaker 1: by to return a pair of glasses. Judy left them
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  Speaker 1: at the restaurant. Yeah, I worris in that effect, yes,
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  Speaker 1: And and I don't know if I believe it. I
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  Speaker 1: didn't believe it. It was pretty much immaterial because you know,
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  Speaker 1: I was working so about everything that everything that was
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  Speaker 1: going on, you know, and UH was fed up with it,
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  Speaker 1: I guess, and you get into a fight. Nicole comes out,
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  Speaker 1: got a little loud and by that time, Uh, Nicole
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  Speaker 1: had come out and we started having words about who
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  Speaker 1: is this guy, why is he here? What's going on?
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  Speaker 1: And she says, this is my house. Get that they
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  Speaker 1: found here, Yes, and uh, which I didn't like because
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: once again, this is the same person. And if you
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: read the book, you'll see some things that happened in
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: the two weeks leading up to this that we're very
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: very irritating, you know. Um. And I think Charlie had
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  Speaker 1: followed this guy in one makes sure it was no problem,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: and he brought the knife as things got heated. I
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: just remember the cold fall and hurt herself and uh,
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  Speaker 1: this guy kind of got into a karate thing and
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: I said, well, you think you can kick my ass?
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  Speaker 1: And I remember grabbed the knife. I do remember that
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  Speaker 1: portion taking a knife from Charlie, And to be honest,
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  Speaker 1: after that, I don't remember except I'm standing there and
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  Speaker 1: it's all kind of stuff around, and um, what kind
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: of stuff, but and stuff around you know. We you know,
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  Speaker 1: I hate to say this. I know we got to
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  Speaker 1: back up again. Okay, I don't know that I want
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  Speaker 1: to back up. I want to try to make people
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  Speaker 1: think that I'm um, you wrote in the book I
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: had never seen so much blood in my life. Mm hmm, yes, covered,
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  Speaker 1: you're covered the scene. Can you describe It's hard for
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  Speaker 1: me to describe it. I'm telling you, I don't think
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  Speaker 1: any two people could be um murdered the way they
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  Speaker 1: were without everybody been covered in blood. And of course
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  Speaker 1: I think we've all seen the as lead pictures after,
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  Speaker 1: so yeah, I think everything was covered would have been
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  Speaker 1: covered in blood. And what goes through your mind at
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  Speaker 1: a time like that, I don't know. It's like what happened,
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  Speaker 1: all right? You're right about removing a glove before taking
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  Speaker 1: the knife from Charlie. Uh. You know, I had no
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  Speaker 1: conscious memory of doing that, but obviously I must have
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: because they found a glove there. I'm blacking out. Have
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  Speaker 1: you ever blacked out before? Not to my knowledge? No,
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  Speaker 1: of course, of course, if something like this would take
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  Speaker 1: place in anybody's life, if it were to happen, I
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  Speaker 1: would imagine it's something that you would probably automatically have
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  Speaker 1: trouble wrapping your your mind around it. It was horrible,
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  Speaker 1: It was absolutely hard, staggering. Firsthand tales about the crime scene,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: which he says are hypothetical. He wrote in the book,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I had never seen so much blood in my life.
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  Speaker 1: It's hard for me to describe it. I'm telling I
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  Speaker 1: don't think any two people could be um murdered the
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  Speaker 1: way they were without everybody had been covered in blood.
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  Speaker 1: Then you see bloody footprints and you decide to take off. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: actually I believe Charlie kept saying, we gotta get out
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  Speaker 1: of here. And in the book you described taking off
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  Speaker 1: your shoes, your pants and your shirt and dropping it
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  Speaker 1: in a bundle. Do remember that, yes, and remember what happens?
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  Speaker 1: Are you going to do it? You know, somebody's got
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  Speaker 1: to get rid of as you may have called doing
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  Speaker 1: the twelve and said where the bloody clothes? Or somebody
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  Speaker 1: had to get rid of the bloody clothes And you
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: had left your keys and wallet in your pants pocket
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  Speaker 1: and you had to go back and get it. And
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  Speaker 1: you know, be honest, I think I know that to
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  Speaker 1: be true with us, Yes, Um, And Charlie is the
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  Speaker 1: sterical screaming Jesus Christ or j Jesus Christ, and he's
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  Speaker 1: in a panic. He was in a panic, and I'm
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  Speaker 1: telling him to shut up. Let's get out of here.
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  Speaker 1: So you get back in the car, you're taken your
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  Speaker 1: clothes and drove back and and it parked a block
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  Speaker 1: away because I knew the limo would be there, and
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  Speaker 1: came across the backyard, through the two tennis courts, and
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  Speaker 1: you know, came through the house, so you went through
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: the neighbors. Neighbors. Yeah, he had a tennis court. Then
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  Speaker 1: I had a tennis court. And you go into the
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  Speaker 1: house and what happens in the house. I ran up stairs,
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  Speaker 1: take a shower, Actually ran up says. He took some
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  Speaker 1: of my bags and came back downstairs and put them
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  Speaker 1: out front. Joining me right now. Forensic expert in his field,
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  Speaker 1: Professor of Forensics at Jacksona State University, Joseph Scott Morgan
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  Speaker 1: also with me, sitting Judge, renowned victim's advocate Ashley Wilcott,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: also with me, Emmy Award winning reporter Investigative journalists. Aren't Harris?
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Aren't Harris? Uh? You know, Simpson, you have covered the
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: story forever. You were there during the entire drama. You know,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: some thing's never changed to do They aren't Matthew. What
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  Speaker 1: shocks me? And people would come up to me like
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  Speaker 1: they probably did you and ask do you think he's guilty? Well,
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  Speaker 1: after covering him for twenty four years and hearing this confession,
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  Speaker 1: which I would call it, they can't ever ask the
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  Speaker 1: question again. This is O. J. Recreating a lot of
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  Speaker 1: the things that we believed and reported from other sources.
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  Speaker 1: He is telling us how he did the crime hypothetically,
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  Speaker 1: but it doesn't come off that way because he shifts
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: into the first person. And it is really really disgusting
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  Speaker 1: to listen to a convicted killer who once upon a
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  Speaker 1: time was making money off or would have off this
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: book and off the interview out to Joseph Scott, Morgan,
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  Speaker 1: Joe Scott. When you hear it laid out that way,
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  Speaker 1: it addresses every question that was raised at trial way
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  Speaker 1: in from your point of view. Yeah, what we have, Nancy,
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  Speaker 1: is that this this hypothetical that he puts puts forward
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  Speaker 1: actually kind of marries up with a lot of things
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  Speaker 1: that we see presented visa v. The crime scene reports
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  Speaker 1: at the time and UM and his presence there, and
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: that's the key to all of this, uh connectivity between
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  Speaker 1: him and the violence that was exacted exacted on these people. Uh.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Let's keep in mind, uh, Nancy, his you know, revisiting
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: past history here, his d n A doesn't just show
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  Speaker 1: up miraculously at the scene. It was it was physically there.
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  Speaker 1: It was physically adjacent to uh, to other evidence at
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: that scene. And it's it's compelling. So yeah, it just
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: it baffles my mind as as a death investigator that
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: we're literally sitting here listening to him kind of narrate
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  Speaker 1: this event in this in this odd bizarre way that
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  Speaker 1: he does, you know, and and and kind of uh,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: you know, embroidered with this bizarre laughter that he every
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: you know, Ashley Willcott. The laughter is so um bazarre
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: is a good way to describe it. But the way,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: I mean you look at him in the face, Ashley,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: and you and I have had so many lying witnesses
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: on the stand and watched them. Looks right at my
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  Speaker 1: old friends Judith Reagan and says, Charlie told him all
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: this and with a straight face, with a straight face,
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  Speaker 1: And what a crazy hypothetical, this so called Charlie no
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: last name, says man, if you did, you do you
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: know what's happening over there? I mean from Simpson's home,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: you cannot see what's happening at Bundy, Okay, you can't
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: see what's happening into Cole Brown's home. So this Charlie
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  Speaker 1: person comes in and says, hey, you know what's happening
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: over there? And they get in the car and go over.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: And now we learned Simpson keeps his knife under his seat. Ashley,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: if I were the sitting judge and if this hypothetical
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: scenario flash confession we're being set in front of me
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: as his testimony, I would find him not credible, insincere,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: the laughter, all the things that you've described, Nancy, you
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: know as well as I do. There's no sincerity. He
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: is not credible. I do not believe and would not
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: believe this is a hypothetical. I think it's a confessionist
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: to exactly what happened. Okay, I agree with you, with me, everybody,
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  Speaker 1: UH forensics expert Joseph Scott, Morgan, Ashley Willcott, an Emmy
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Award winning journalist Aunt Harris. Listen to O. J. Simpson
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: seeing her and leaning over and kissing her, and can
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: you tell me that? Well, No, it was tough. I
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: just remember seeing her there, and I still had so
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: many feelings of if you're angry with a person upon
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: their death. You know, if you're angry with somebody about
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: whatever is going on in your life, when they die,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: it's not like that anchor disappears, right, and and and
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: because of the nine one one call when I'm yelling
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: at her about what's going on? It was like I
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: wanted It was almost like I want to say I
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: told you, didn't I tell you, didn't I say to you,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: you know it's whatever the hell was going on? You
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: know what I mean, didn't I so you still got
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: those kind of feelings in you and you still are
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: trying to deal with I'm not going to be able
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: to say this to this person. I'm never going to
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: be able to change this person's mind. I'm never gonna
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: have an effect on this person again. What did you
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: say to her when you leaned over and kissed her.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I said anything, To be honest
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: with you, I'm told that that some person said. They're
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: hurting me say I'm sorry. I just recalled all Julie
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Brown pulling me over, look at me in the eye
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: and saying to me, oh, j did you have anything
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: to do with this? And I know I told her
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: no to Art Harris joining me. You know Art, you
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: know all the players so well. Even after her death,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: he's still angry. And what it boils down to is
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: he's angry at the thought she may be with another man.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: That's right, Nancy. He looks in the window. When he
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: goes over, he sees candles and he's claiming, oh, well,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: she's saving money on lights, but he knows she's in
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: there with a romance for a romantic evening with Ron Goldman,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: and he the guy shows up and he cannot contain
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: himself and really starts picks a fight and then blames
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: it on Ron Goldman. Well, he got into a karate
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: stance and he's is like challenging me, and I had
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: a knife, So what basically had to kill him? I mean,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: he doesn't, he says, he blacks out. But Nancy, everything
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: they found at the scene here matches up to the
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: police investigation that the defense to debunk. Remember, no bloody footprints,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: no d n A. I mean, everything is now confirmed
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: by his hypothetical confession. He's got blood all over him.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: He's got bloody footprints there that matched the Bruno Maglee
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: shoes the FBI proved he was wearing. And I mean,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: it's unbelievable that this fills in the gaps of all
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: the evidence that was supposedly faulty evidence, Nancy, and it's
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: now confirmed. The glove. He admits he dropped the glove
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: at the scene so that means Mark Ferman was telling
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: the truth, you know, the witness they put up to
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: try to scapegoat the l A p D. Suddenly O. J.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Simpson has just shown the offense to be a complete charade.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: And you know, as we suspected. You know, I look
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: back on all that time Ashley Willcott that I coos
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: to cockriting Grace with Johnny Cochrane, God rest his soul,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: and so often until I kept getting the same answer,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I quit asking him. I would say, Cochrane, you know
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: he did it, you know he did it. Every time Ashley,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Johnny would say the same thing, had hold up both
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: his hands like I don't know, and he'd say, jury
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: acquitted him. That was always his answer. It was well
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: practiced because people were always coming up to him saying that.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: So that was his answer, and it was true, the
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: jury did acquit him. But I gotta I gotta tell you, actually,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: it is a kick in the stomach, a kick in
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: the teeth to hear Simpson say this, because for me,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: having been a crime victim, to think about the Goldman
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: and the Brown family having to hear this after all
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: these years. I mean, it's nothing they didn't know but
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: it's just so incendiary Ashley. Well, and even if it's
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: something you don't know, once you hear the actual person
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: saying it in his own words, that changes it. You
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: may think, you know, like we know he did it,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: but then to hear him describe all this in his
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: own words, I think if I were the victim, I
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: feel like, Okay, he had a great defense team. But
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: even so, how did he get acquitted? How could he
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: not be convicted? The evidence was there? Now we hear
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: his words proving the evidence. How in the world did
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: this man not get convicted? That's how I would feel. Guys,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: thank you for calling it at nine O nine two
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: seven four six three. Let's go to the calls, and
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: my question is about O. J. H. Simpson hypothetical confession. Um,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: I'm wanting to know if I know the double jeopardy
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: rule and everything, that he could never be charged again,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: um with their murders, But I want to know if
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: there's anything else um he could be charged with if
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: he was too you know, actually say he did it.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of what I'm wanting to know, if
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: you know, anybody could charge him with anything else if
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: he confessed. Thanks for the question. Ashley sadly, even with
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: an outright confession, he cannot be retried because of double jeopardy.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: That's right, he cannot in some countries, you can be
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: not in the United States. This is hypothetical, hypothetical. I
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: just wonder why he had to resort to such a
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: terrible way to assuage his hate, or something similar to that.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: I still don't believe he did it. I believe Nicole
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: was tired with a lot of people that do. They're
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: still drugs, and I believe that they're the ones that
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: killed her. Let's go back to oh J. Simpson essentially confessing,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: occasionally throwing in oh yeah, this is hypothetical, but clearly
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: he is confessing to the night he committed a double murder. Listen,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: what was the hardest thing for you at that time
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: that people You're write in the book that you couldn't
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: believe that people thought you were a murderer. It was
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: hot believe that. It seems so easy listening to TV
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: that week, that it was that easy for people to
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: believe that I could I could kill two people. I
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: thought that my whole life meant something. I thought the
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: type of god that I had lived my life, being
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: pretty upstanding god man like everybody, had my faults like
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: most men in my position, and uh sometime temptations of
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: the flesh is there, you know. But for the most part,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: I've always thought I was a straight shooting, straight shooter
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: in any event, Uh that that was hard for me
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: to accept that it was so easy for people to
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: um believe that, Okay, is he insane? I guess the
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: answer would have to be yes at this point, because
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Art Harris, you know Simpson's character, you have you have
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: investigated him for so long. You know he's deeply involved
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: in drugs, cheated, beat his wife. I mean, how many
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: nine when one calls were there where he beat Nicole Brown?
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: And I never will forget that photo of her up
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: in the courtroom with their face all swollen up and
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: black and blue because of him, those nine one one
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: calls or he's beating the door down to try to
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: get at her and beat her almost sounded inhuman. So
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: now he's saying he's a pretty good guy. What and Nancy?
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: I mean the L A. P. D. S UH District
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: office nearby was almost on speed dial for Nicole's UH
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: number because he was he was so abusive and violent
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: and of course then blamed it on her. This was
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: the poster child for domestic violence, and he really created
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: an awareness that we now are sensitive to. But this
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: was it was horrific to hear what she went through.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: And and then now we have him blaming her again.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: I know he did a tremendous amount of drugs. She
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: was trying to get him to cut down on the coke,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: according to people I interviewed, and he has been the
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: one to blame her for partying, and now of course
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: blames her for having to having to do what he
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: did because he caught her with another man. He had
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: just bought her a Ferrari, he had just paid for
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: her cosmetic surgery, and he says in this interview she
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: was looking pretty good. Well he went over that night
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: to quote, as he said in the interview, to quote
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: get some Well he didn't. And suddenly she's lying there, Nancy,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: in a pool of blood. Blood he's got all over him.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: And of course the trial discounts all that. You know,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: another thing Ashley will caught that that I hate about
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: this is now even in death, he's dragging her through
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: the mud, claiming that he heard through the grapevine. She
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: was having group sex parties at the home. That's what
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: he says. And I know Jackie just turned around and
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: gave me a look, but that's what he's saying. That.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: That is what he went over there to stop. He
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: is a classic abuser, and he's narcissistic because he thinks, oh,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: it's everybody else's fault, and everybody else is at I
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: didn't do anything wrong. I still don't think he thinks
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: he did anything wrong, even in killing needs to individuals
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: to Joe's got Morgan, Joe, I want you to hear this.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Next sound listen to Simpson essentially confessing turned a double
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: murder and yes he has walked free. Listen. So I
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: had run into her, which they tried to say was stalking,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: because her and some friends were at a opening of
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: a restaurant. I was there with like sixteen people. So
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: if I'm stocking you, I'm stocking you with with my crew.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: You know we're all there too, you know. And I
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: saw her and I went over and spoke to her
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: in her group. Uh. Then I went out to my
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: group to a party. But on the way home, I'd
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: said out, see if she's home, because if she's still up.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know how late she stayed out. No, you
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: maybe you know I can get something in any event. Uh.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: As I approached the front door, she has a window
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: right along the walkway there, I can hear something and
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: I can see movement, and when I look, I can
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: obviously see she was involved in something. I don't know
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: who's with or what. And I hit the door and left.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: When you knocked on the door, I just hit the door,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: be aware that somebody's around and maybe they'd move with something.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: That's what I didn't even look. I just hit the
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: door twice and left. Alan, what happened to Charlie? Because
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: now he has dropped all pretense of a hypothetical I
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: guess he forgot about Charlie. And you know I'm using
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: air quotes, Allan. Charlie is a fictional name an allegedly
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: hypothetical situation. There's a lot of speculation on who Charlie is.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Charlie could still be tried, right, I mean, if we
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: could figure out who Charlie, Allen, Alan, what are you
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: saying there is no Charlie? What? What? What do you even?
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: I said, he's a fictional person in a hypothetical scenario,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: but it's probably real what O J is say, it
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: sounds so real. I believe there's a Charlie. I really believe.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: And who is it. I think that there could be
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: another person who went by Nicole's house then of the
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: of the murders saw something going on, went and told
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: O Jay and then went with him. I think he's
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: actually telling the truth. Um, Okay, Ashley Wilcott, there is
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: no evidence at all of a Charlie. I don't know
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: if Alan Do is listening to the same interview I am,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: But at this point in the interview he's not even
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: discussing Charlie anymore. He forgot about him because he doesn't exist. Ashley,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: he did forget about him. And not only that. Even
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: if you want to think, well, maybe there's a Charlie,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: he is not credible. He is not reliable. Listen to
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: his testimony. The fact that that Napole is dead and
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: he's talking about, oh, I want to go get some
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Nothing he has said sounds at all remotely credible, including
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Charlie he's now forgotten about. Well, another thing to you,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgen, you have studied the autopsy over and
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: over and over, actually autopsies. Um, there no evidence that
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: there was a second perpetrator. No, no, there's there's not, Nancy. UM.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people. Uh. And if I
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: could just interject this, I actually sat across the table
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: at a luncheon, uh many years ago, across the across
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: the table from Dr Irwin Golden. Golden, and Dr Golden
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: is the person that actually did autopsies on on Nicole
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: and Ron, and I remember looking at him and thinking
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: about the things that he had seen in the autopsy room,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: much like stuff that I had seen over my years
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: and whatnot, and thinking, this man of science is sitting
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: there and he knows, he knows what he bore witnessed
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: to in that autopsy room, and just thinking that he
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: he's in an upside down universe because no one was
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: buying for whatever reason, maybe it was because of late
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Johnny Cochrane. This hard evidence that that we had, and
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day, that's what this all
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: comes down to, is the hard evidence. Many people out
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: there they it's been put forth that that he was
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: that that both of these people were stabbed. Nancy, Uh,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: they were not staffed. Uh, these these injuries when you
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: look at these autopsy reports, these are incised injuries. And
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: what that means is that the leading edge of a
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: blade was was drug across the surface of the skin.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: It's not like they were poked or something like this.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Nicole's throat was cut so deeply that it went down, uh,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: to her cervical spine. Nancy. And it's not just once
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: or twice, it's several times. And I just put it
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: in language that everybody will understand. Uh, she had her
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: head chopped off, her cervical spine. Is your neck? She
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: was decapitated. There was a layer of skin holding her
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: head on. They cut went so deep through her was
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: such ferocity it went all the way through her neck
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: and left her head hanging by the skin in the
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: back of her neck. Is that right, Joe Scott, Yeah, yeah,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: it is, Nancy. And these injuries can only be achieved
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: in one of two ways. Either someone was on top
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: of her slicing her, or they were behind her, her
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: head held back, probably at the forehead, with a knife
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: being drug across the front of her throat all the
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: way down. This isn't a one off circumstance. He you know,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: he's sitting there arrogantly saying, uh, you know, and this
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: is what really reached out and grabbed me about the
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: whole interview. You know, well, anybody that would have been there,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: we'd all be covered with blood. Yeah, you know, you
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: were covered with blood. He was covered with the blood
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: of both of these people. A matter of fact, he
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: was super saturated. He was saturated so much we've never
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: been able to find this clothes now halfway. Uh and
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: he he divested himself as he's clothing because it was
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: so he was so saturated. He knows what happened, Nancy,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: He knows what happened. To take a listen to Oriental
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: James Simpson in his own words during that nine one
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: one tape that everybody hears me yelling, I'm saying, I
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: don't want these girls around my kids. And that's the
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: only thing that argument on that nine one one tape
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: was about. I went to our house and I read
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: about riot act I did would any father and and
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: would do. And yet you know, people listen to that
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: tape and made me this horrible person whenever they hit
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: that nine one take. Can you believe he's yelling at
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: her about this? Well, when the cops came it became apparent.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: She said, I was yelling her about this and only this.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: That's the only reason I was there, reading her to
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: riot act because I don't want these people around my kids. Well,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, the obvious thing, Ashley is if he one
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: had wanted to say in his children's life, he wouldn't
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: have beaten Nicole black and Blue, threatened to kill her
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: on so many occasions. They finally broke up and she
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: was living with the children. There's a reason she had custody, Ashley.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: And it's not because everybody thought he was a bad person.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Is because he's violent, right, And for him to say, oh,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: I did what every father and he know he said
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: I did what any father would do is insulting to
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: fathers because he absolutely did not do what most fathers
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: would do. To go over there and attack her verbally
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: and again make sure she's the victim of domestic violence
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: in front of those kids is not right. Here we go, Oh,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: j Simpson, I want to talk about the first time
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: you met Nicole Brown. Yes, where wasn't it was? Right
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: or Ordeal? A place called the Daisy. It's a little
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: breakfast place, and I ran into a friend of mine.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: He said, let's have breakfast. And when we walked in,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: this this vision turned to me and said, what do
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: you want to sit? And I remember think, what a
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: gorgeous girl. But I can't deal with this. So it's
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: three days later when I came back, I went back
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: into the days in was having lunch with the onna
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: and she came back in and uh, I said, man,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: I would really like to take this girl up. And
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: he called her over and introduces and you know, said
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: this is one of the good guys, and you were
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: together from now on. Well, yeah, well that I had
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: to take her before I went to the point I
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: had to explained to her that I was married when
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: I wasn't married. Though it sounded like a line, but
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: after we talked, I think she believed me and were together.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: You know what's weird about that, Aunt Harris. He talks
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: like I would ask you where where did you meet Carol?
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Your wife? Well, it seems like he's kind of glossing
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: over the fact that he murdered her. Oh yeah, this
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: is a justification. Well, you know, she was this beautiful
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: waitresses woman who I met and uh, you know, I
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: finally got the hook up with her and we lived
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: happily ever after. Um. I mean, this is someone who,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: in the middle of confessing later that he sliced her
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: to pieces, is talking kind and laughing about the first
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: time he met her, as you know, as he's this
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: little infatuated, uh, a young guy, but in fact it's
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: she's his possession, and it explains why he was so enraged,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: uh that she would there be with another man after
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: of course he'd beaten her senseless for years. Um. This
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: is someone who feels justified in protecting all his possessions,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: and she was one of his possessions that he's furious
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: left him. O. J. Simpson now describes the Bronco chase.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go back to the Broncho and you can
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: just give me some of the details of what what
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: you said to each other and some of the well,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: there wasn't a lot of conversation, but basically it was
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: just you had a gun. Yeah, but it was in
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: the bag in the back at that point with the
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: pictures and stuff. The police like to say it was
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: with a passport. I always at my passport there. They
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: said I had ten thousand dollars. I think I had
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: like three dollars and something that changed, as a matter
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: of fact, when I was let out of jail after
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: my trial and they were giving me all my things back,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: all the stuff that was in the bronco that was
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: mine back. I said, where's the ten thousand dollars? Where's
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: my ten th dollars that you guys claimed that I had?
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: What are you thinking? You're in the car. I'm in
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: the back of it, still in the back of the truck,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: and I can't believe what I'm saying, because as every
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: time we go by intersections, it was like, where did
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: these people get the time to make these signs? Go
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: old Jay and stuff? And what was strange is is
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: I had been I was being depicted as a fugitive
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: on the radio, but from the side of the roads,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: it was more people cheering. I feel like I could
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: use a shrink right now, because instead of focusing on
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: the fact that he is on a slow speed chase
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: from police after his wife, his ex wife has been murdered,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: and his children no longer have a mother and he
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: suspect number one, he's talking about people holding up posters.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: That's what his mind remembers. Um aren't Harris, I remember that?
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: But what I remember is him getting away from police
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: holding himself hostage with a gun, uh the whole time.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: And he did not travel with his passport all the time.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: He took it because he was trying to figure out
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: where he was going to go, but he never made it.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: He's rewriting history again, Nancy, that's right in fact, But
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: he forgets to tell us he also had that disguise, uh,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: you know that he might be wearing if he were
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: to make it to the California Mexico border where he
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: was headed. And he doesn't talk about the long phone
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: conversation he had with the l APD homicide detective Tom Lane,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: who was trying to talk him out of quote killing himself. Well,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: you know, we thought he felt so guilty about what
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: he had done that that's that's what was going on.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: But here he is making light of that whole thing.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: We see what is really going through his head is
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: his fans. If he thinks people still love him, Hey,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: that's what he wants to hear. And so this is
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: real disconnect, Nancy, with with what was going on at
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: the time that that we both watched. You know, Ashley Willcott,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: it's just the same scenario. It doesn't really change. The
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: person goes on the run, they have a big wad
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: of cash, they have a disguise. I'm glad you reminded
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: me of that art because I've forgotten that detail. Got
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: a gun, money, passport, disguise. When a cop comes up
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: behind me, I pull over because I don't want to
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: make it worse. I also don't want to get shot. Um,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: I don't want to get beat up. You do what
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: the cop tells you to do. He was running from
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: the cops. Bam, that's what was happening, and he almost
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: sounded like he got off on it because he was like, Oh,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: I saw all these people cheering. It was great. So
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: keep in mind, though we can't attribute rational thought to
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: this man who has murdered two people. So he was
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: running from the car. Okay, take a listen to this.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: I loved her to no end, you know, and always
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: loved her, you know. I I think what happened it
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: became reverse of what she said to me when she
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: wanted a divorce. I loved her, but I didn't like her.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: I went didn't love with her. That's what she had
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: said to me to get a divorce. And I kind
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: of figured that's where we were at at the time
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: of her death. I loved her, but I wasn't in
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: love with her, you know, and to some degree I
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: didn't really like her and I didn't like I thought
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: she was losing herself in many ways. Now, you know,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: it's almost like you were. Ron and Nicole were physically dead,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: and it's almost like they killed me. Who I was
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: was was attacked and murdered also in that short period
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: of time, and and and once again, I I to
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: this day it bugs me that it seems that people
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: wanted me to be guilted, and that really really bothered me.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: And even sometimes it's day is I'm a little calcified
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: to it all the day, I can, you know, my
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: friends and family and I because there's so many stories
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: in the tabloids that are not true. We we just
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: live with it, you know. I loved it to know end,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: you know, and always loved it. And yes, is guilty.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: I knew that. And it happened back in the nineties.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: What a joke in other ways, that he could have
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: addressed the problem and not presod had true or murder. Anyways,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: you know, it's almost like you were. Ron and Nicole
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: were physically dead. And it's almost like they killed me.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Who I was was attacked and murdered. Also, did I
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: just hear that Art Harris they killed him? He feels
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: like they killed him, Nancy. This is unbelievable, but it
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: explains why for so long he's able to to distance
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: himself in his mind from what the horror that he
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: did to these two people. He's he's a sociopath who
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: can rationalize anything he does by compartmentalizing his the murders. Uh.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: And you know, as I write in my on my website,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: Art Harris dot Com, that now he can no longer
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: run Nancy. Every time he looks in the mirror after
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: we hear this, we hear this confession, he's going to
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: look in the mirror and see the killer staring back
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: at him. But you know, just got more gun. You
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: and I've handled so many murder cases. I swear I
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: don't think he understands. Um. I don't think he looks
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: in the mirror and sees a double killer. I think
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: he looks in the mirror and sees the superstar. Yeah.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: I agree. I think that you know, playing pop psychologists here.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: I think he's, you know, uh, a narcissistic Uh. You know, uh,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: person that that views himself as above all of this.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: You know all of these taddry details, they're not taddry details.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: These are two people that he slaughtered. Uh. And you
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: know what you were just discus us him with art
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: this this this idea that you know that they killed
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: him at what level of arrogance does that take? But
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: you know, you see this repeated over and over again.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: And that's what brings us back home, Nancy, is that O. J.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Simpson is no different than anybody else we've ever investigated.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: It's just that he's got a higher profile and he's
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: gotten away with it. You know, a lot of people
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: don't have the advantages that he had. You know, they
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: can't get a million dollar dream teams and the best
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: forensic scientists in the world to come in and talk
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: on their behalf. At the end of the day, he's
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: a thug. That's what it comes down to. Take a
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: listen to Simpson in his confession when she asked for
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: the separation, You're right in the book, I felt like
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: I'd been kicked in. It was absolutely socking. Her and
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: her mother had been to New York a few weeks
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: before that. She had talked about how happy she was,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: she had gotten her body completely back, she was looking great,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: she was finally wearing all her fancy stuff. Well, I realized,
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: of course it hurts. I didn't think it would happen,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: And for two or three months I pursued her to
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: know end uh until I saw her with another guy.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: And at that point, what are you gonna do with
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: girls with another guy? I mean an idiot? You know
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: he's still talking about her being with other people. I
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: mean Art Harris, Ashley Willcote, Joska Morgan. Let me throw
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: this to Ashley. How many beatings does it take until
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Nicole finally decided to divorce. She didn't divorce him to
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: date other people. She divorced him because he wouldn't stop
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: beating her. What's so sad in this case is that's
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: a typical victim right. Once you become a victim of
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: domestic violence, it is very hard to walk away, to
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: know how to escape because of the cycle of domestic
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: violence when you are a victim. So here she did
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: to protect herself, which can be very hard to do.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: She got a divorce, She walked away. She tried to
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: get away from his abusive, abusive fists, and yet he
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: comes after her and kills her. So it's really a
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: tragic story. And Nancy, please don't make me listen to
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: his laugh anymore. It is so statistic, And throughout this
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: entire interview, does that laugh just not get right under
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: your skin. You just want to reach out and strangle him.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: You know, I felt that when he starts laughing and
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: we're talking about a double murder um and I guess
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: it's over the year has been airbrushed and edited and produced.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: But a murder saying, much less a double murder saying
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: of this nature. It's really hard for me to describe,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: having been to so many murder sayings. First of all,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: this is not a asphyxiation. This is a blood letting
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: in the front yard. There was so much blood cops
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: were sopping through it. There were bloody footprints, which of
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: course matched up to his shoes everywhere. The victims bodies
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: had been lying out there for a period of time.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: She had essentially been decapitated. It was awful. I've it
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: was a terrible, sticky, smelly, filthy murder saying with two
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: young people dead. You know, I I always believed Aunt Harris,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: and you know, a lot more about this aspect than
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: I do. That he was drugged out of his gourd
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: that night, Nancy. He had been doing probably cocaine or
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: and had been drinking as he often did, uh, and
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: he felt he was in rage. This was such a
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: rage killing. He not have Nicole anymore, and so he
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: probably snapped and did not want anyone else to have
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: her either. She was his possession, as so many abusers
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: feel about the women they beat and ultimately often kill.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: This is This is a man who does it and
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: then justifies what he's done and goes home and takes
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: a shower, as he says in part of this interview,
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: and his friend somebody gets rid of those bloody clothes
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: we never see again. So this is someone who killed
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: his wonderful wife and got away with it because he
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: had and could afford the best lawyer's money can buy.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, the thing that got me Nancy is the blood.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: There was so much of it. So how did d
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: n A not work well? As I write in my
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: and my my blog art hairs dot Com, That's because
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: they board the jury to death with the probability of
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: d n A, and they picked a jury that didn't
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: have any math, high school math or science. They knocked
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: out anyone who you know, who had any knowledge and
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: could apply it to this this bloody crime scene. And
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: that's how he got off. Listen to O. J. Simpson
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: talking about the night Nicole and Ron are murdered. In
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: the book, the hypothetical is, uh, Charlie, Charlie. Uh, this
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: guy Charlie shows up, the guy who had we still
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: become friends with. And Uh. I don't know why you
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: had been behind the col's house, but it told me
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't believe what's going on over that. And uh.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, well, whatever is going over there
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: has got to stop, right, So we kind of hooked
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: up together. And you know, I'm kind of broad stroking this.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: We go over, get into Bronco and go over. Let's
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: let's just go back and do the details. Where did
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: your part? You park inn, but that will go in
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: the alley, the park in the alley, and you've put
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: on of well cap and gloves. Uh. In my pathetical,
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: I put on the cap and gloves, and um, you
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: reached under the seat for a knife. I always kept
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: a knife and not car for the crazies and stuff.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: Because you can't travel with a gun. And I remember
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: Charlie is saying, you ain't bringing that, and I didn't,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: all right, but I believe he took it. Charlie took
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: the knife in the book. Yeah, so the back gate,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: you go through the back gate, yes, and it was
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: open or broken or I don't recall. I go to
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: the front, and I'm looking to see what's going on. Um,
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: and I can see that it appears now in the
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: cold had flock. I had candles all the time, she
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: really did to keep her overhead down, I think. And
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: music was on. And while I was there, a guy
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: shows up. So Ron Goldman comes in the back ende. Yeah,
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: I got. I really didn't recognize I may have seen
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: him around, but I really didn't recognize him to be anyone.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: And uh and yeah, in the mood I was in,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: I started having words with him. She says to you,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: I just came by to return a pair of glasses.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: Judy left them at the restaurant. Yeah. I worries to
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: that effect, yes, And and uh he was I don't
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: know if I believe that. I didn't believe it. It
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: was pretty much immaterial because you know, uh, I was
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: more concerned about everything that everything that was going on,
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: you know, and uh was fed up with it, I guess,
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: And did you get into a fight? Nicole comes out,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: got a little loud and by that time, Uh, Nicole
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: had come out and we started having words about who
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: is this guy? Wise? He here? What's going on? And
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: she says, this is my I was getting that the
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: found here, yes, and uh, which I didn't like because
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: once again, this is the same person. And if you
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: read the book you'll see some things that happened in
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: the two weeks leading up to this that we're very
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: very irritating, you know. Um. And I think Charlie had
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: followed this guy in one makes sure it was no problem,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: and he brought the knife as things got heated. I
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: just remember the cold fill and hurt herself and uh,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: this guy kind of got into a karate thing and
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: I said, well, you think you can kick my ass?
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: And I remember grabbed the knife. I do remember that
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: portion taking a knife from Charlie. And to be honest,
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: after that, I don't remember except I'm standing there and
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: it's all kind of stuff around, and um, what kind
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: of stuff, but stuff around. Again, we were flooded with
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: calls about weather, so Pson could be retried even in
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: light of this confession, The answer is no under our
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: jurisprudence system. Nancy Grace Crime story signing off goodbye friend,
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: ye