Latest / The Journey with Pastor Shaun Olsen / Episode 17 - Anchoring Your Faith

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Episode 17 - Anchoring Your Faith · The Journey with Pastor Shaun Olsen

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the journey.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_03: My name is Sean Olsen.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: And as you walk your faith life out, we just simply want to have conversations.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: After over two decades of ministry, I believe faith and discipleship is better in a relational context.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: So we're going to invite some of my closest friends and family into this office and have conversations about faith and life in the context of relationship.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: So do me a favor, like, share, and subscribe because your friends and family need to take this journey with you.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: So let's dive in to a conversation right now.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, well, welcome back to the journey, and you are in for a treat today.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: The conversation is certainly going to be fun, life-giving, enlightening.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to jump in in just a moment and meet one of my closest friends in the entire ministry world.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: And we're going to talk about hope and hardship today, but do us a favor, right now, go ahead and share this episode with someone because we all walk through hard things.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: Do me another favor, subscribe to the channel because you need someone to walk out this faith journey with you.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: You can't do it alone.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: So what we've done is we've invited you into the office, into a real life conversation with real people so that we can help you walk this faith journey out.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: And one of my life values is everybody's journey looks a little different.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: So you don't know when you're going to need this conversation, but at some point we need someone to walk it out.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: So welcome back to the journey and welcome into the office, Bruce Borgard, one of my longest tenure ministry friends.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: Bruce and I were on staff back in Pennsylvania.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: Say hi to the subscribers.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: Say hi to the listeners.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: Kind of let them know who you are, even how we met.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, my name's Bruce.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um we met dang uh 1967.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: Back in the day.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: Back in the day.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's pushing 20 years.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, about 20 years ago.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Matt, you came in.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was already on staff there at Amstar, and you came in as our new youth guy.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we hit it off pretty quick.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: Oh man, we had so much fun.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: Me and Bruce, man, we we've really done some things in ministry.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we designed the the stages at Morningstar.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: We did the creative elements.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we've certainly, and we we could probably sit here and do an entire podcast on the theology of movie quotes.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: That that was one of the things I feel that really connected us was the uh, because we we both have the desire to see people meet Jesus.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh to get people connected to God.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's if we both have that desire.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then just finding creative ways to do that, to help people get it.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're preaching a sermon or whatever, and and how can we make this some kind of visual to make this, you know, uh really catch someone's eye or catch their attention or make them remember something.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we both have that desire to do that.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, and the and the just the thought of all the what ifs.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think of that when I think of you in our relationship.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: That we would sit in in my office or your office or wherever and say, maybe we can do what if we did this?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: What if we did that?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we could do this, you know, all the possibilities, that kind of stuff.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: So we both kind of have that in us as far as we could sit and talk about an endless amount of possibilities for a long time for sure.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, And then we have wives that say, that's not a good idea.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's not there's no.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you should rethink that one.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: One time we were making these two mountains, and we'll get to content here in just a second.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we're making these two mountains on our stage, and we couldn't quite paint the top.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: So we take our electric lift and we ratchet strap an extension laterally like a plank, and I'm driving the lift, and you're out there on the front of the span, shimming out to the end.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: And our blaster comes in and he just turned right back around and left.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: I would say, even beyond that, what really solidified, I would say, the depth of our relationship uh is in 2008.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um actually 2007, I got a phone call that my father had cancer.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: We thought it was gonna be a bump in the road.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: A month and a half later, we find out that it's serious and uh we don't know what to do.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: And then in June, actually, actually late May, um, I got a phone call from my dad on a Tuesday that said, Hey, I think this is it.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: Uh he had preached on Sunday, he went to the hospital.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: So Angela and I we flew, we flew down to Miami where my dad was was living at the time, my mom and dad.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: And for two weeks, I was in the hospital at my dad's bedside before he died.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: And every day you called me, every day you checked on me.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: I remember one time I'm standing in the stairwell of that hospital, and you're like, man, I feel like I should just come down there.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and as I was losing a father in a season of hardship, I was gaining a spiritual father.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: And uh our relationship since then, sure, we laugh a lot, uh, but you've really just become that encouraging, spiritually grounded voice in my family's life and our church.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, for the listeners that don't know, Bruce is one of our the overseers of Venture Church, uh, the pastor, uh, the church I get to lead.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but also I know that your story has been forged through some hardship.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: So what I was hoping that we could do today is from the journey of both of us have walked, uh, people walk through hard times.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I think a lot of times it's in those hard times that my faith is either shaken or my faith is forged.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I remember coming back from my dad's death and sitting in Pastor Steve's office, our pastor going, I don't know how I get back on the stage and talk about how good God is.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like scheduled to preach sometime like a week or two later.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I just don't know that I can get up on stage and go, Man, God is so good, you know, give the old God is good all the time.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: And all the time, God is good.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I don't feel like this is a time where God feels good.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and I needed something to anchor it in.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: And for me, that became Hebrews 6.19.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: We have this hope as an anchor, right?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: As an anchor for our soul, firm and secure.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, it didn't feel good, but I was still firm.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and it really did shape how I preached the gospel, it shaped how I lived my faith, it shaped how I raised my kids, that whole understanding that even when things aren't good, I can hold on to something that is firm.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: And here's the thing, I think when you you talked about the anchor and all that anchor in the word of God, our belief, you know, our faith, all of that is the anchor.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what I learned through our difficult seasons in our life.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: You you need to set your anchor before the storm gets there.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's good.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've often said, man, you gotta you gotta determine what you believe about healing before you get sick.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta believe in and anchor what you believe about your finances and and how God prov is our provider.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: You need to have be anchored in that before financial difficulty gets there.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm saying?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like it there when when the storm gets there, that's not the time to be like, oh, I gotta find an anchor.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you spent some time on boats.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: I sail, I've spent some time on boats.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: I can tell you this I don't want to try to set an anchor in 10 foot waves.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to try to set an anchor in, you know, 20, 30 not winds.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: I want to already be on the bottom, set secure so when the winds come against me and the waves come against me, I've already taken hold.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and I know let let's let's share some of the things that you guys have walked through.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, uh, and how it affected your faith and how it affected your journey, you and Terry, uh, and just kind of start walking through hardship.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I mean, our journey with our uh with our daughter, we had two girls, uh, Janice, who just turned 46, and uh our younger daughter Jenna uh passed away in 2018 when she was 36 years old.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I mean our journey is one of I mean it wasn't a sudden thing with Jenna.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean the the end of her life was rather sudden, but but we dealt with that from the time she was born when she was uh two months old.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: We found ourselves sitting, you know, we're a young couple, you know, and you know what young couples, you're you're in your twenties, you got two kids, you're just trying to figure out how to be a father, how to be a mom, how to have a family, how to do everything.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're just getting in your feet wet in relationship, in marriage, and all that.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we find ourselves with a two-month-old daughter and a doctor telling us she needs major open heart surgery.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: She's got a significant uh defect in her heart, a hole that connects all the chambers of her heart, and nothing's beating properly, valves are not working, like all this kind of stuff.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we find ourselves, you know, a young couple sitting there and saying, What are we gonna do about this?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: How we how are we gonna deal with this, you know?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you're thrust into that.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: I had a I had uh back, I grew up going to church, wandered far, far away from God, um, but then came back.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I so I kind of had a a bit of an anchor in my life ahead of time.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um Terry, you know, really didn't grow up in a in uh a church world, you know what I mean, like us.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: But uh so we're just trying to find our way in all of that.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: So then then going through this journey of as she's growing up, multiple open heart surgeries, had uh uh you know, valves replaced, all that kind of stuff, up until when she was 13.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was kind of like one of those things where you you take your your car to the mechanic and they say, Yeah, really, we can't put any more money.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: You want to put any more money in this engine, you really gotta replace the engine.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of the same thing with her heart.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: They said, We've done so much to this, there's really nothing else we can do to fix it.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: She needs a transplant.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: So now we're now we're we're still kind of young.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm old now, but uh we were still kind of young, and now we got a 13-year-old daughter who's on a transplant list and uh waiting for that to happen.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh went into hospital because to accelerate the process because she kept getting skipped over.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh she was first on the list, but if you're in the hospital, we were waiting at home.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: If you're in the hospital, then you you have to you you get priority on it.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: So she gets skipped over.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: So she's in the hospital, waiting, the call comes, she gets the heart transplant, and we're thinking, this is this is this is it.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's gonna get a new heart and it's gonna be all better.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: No more surgeries, no more all of this.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, in the middle of the surgery, at some point during the surgery, she has a uh significant brain injury.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Wakes up, or first she she really wouldn't wake up from after surgery, and then when she did start to wake up, starts having seizures and just I mean, it was a a curveball to us, you know.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: We dealt with heart stuff all of her life, and now we're dealing with a brain a significant brain injury.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: So things go from bad to worse.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it just uh and we're just trying to deal with all of that in the midst of all of that.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now, at at that time, we had come back to the Lord.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: I like I said, I had we we had wandered pretty far away from God, we had come back to the Lord, we're in the church now, um and so we're just we're just dealing with all of that and establishing faith.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that so then um she went from you know just needing a heart transmit to now significant brain injury, uh can't talk, um relearn how to walk, um you know, really couldn't swallow, you know, being fed by a tube, all of that kind of stuff.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then we saw God's faithfulness in that in the middle of it, of her next thing you know, uh she's able to swallow.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: She's able to eat a little bit, she's able to she starts talking.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you well, you you know, Jenna, yeah.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: She she would talk.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you would you you couldn't really carry a conversation on with her she would repeat what you said, yeah.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: To the point where it was confusing.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was like you're hearing yourself say what so but that was her way of being in the conversation.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: She could just repeat because she couldn't formulate her own sentences, you know, that was broken in her brain.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: So she would just repeat what you were saying.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: So then for years we're then we're dealing with that, you know.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um one of the things I'll say I saw because our relationship was uh uh began about 2007.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know how old Jenna was in that moment, but she's she was born in 1982.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: So she's 25, roughly.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um you and Terry had so much peace and joy.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there's a lot of people that as they go through hardship, uh, they they set aside their peace, they set aside their joy because their peace and their joy are tied to, you know, circumstances, they're tied to quality of life.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's a big trap in our society that our peace and joy is tied to something other than Jesus, other than our faith.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, even right now in America, as I look across the landscape, so many people attach their peace and joy to their family.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like it is it is nearing idle stage in America.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like my kids are everything.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's not biblical, first and foremost.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: And if your kids are everything, when your kids struggle, you lose everything.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the things I'll acknowledge to you and Terry is I watched for the better part of 10 years because Jenna was still living when we moved here.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: We moved here in 2017, uh, Jenna was still alive.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: So our whole 10 years, I watched you guys parent an adult special needs child, and you did so with peace and joy.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and inspired, you know, even inspired my faith as I lost my dad.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like if they can walk through this, I can I can walk through that.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and the amount of joy and peace that you guys had was really, really encouraging to see.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I I mean it it goes back to that where where your anchor is, really.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like, well, I I've determined in my life, I have faith that God is good, but this situation is horrible.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't want my daughter to be sick like this.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: I want my daughter to be able to live a full life.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't want to have to, you know.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um my wife was the Terry was the major caretaker.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she's a rock star.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, she is a you know, I mean, so she's the one that's taking care of most of this.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm helping as much as I can.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: But uh and doing I watched my wife do this with joy.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was so it was inspiring to me as far as that goes.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: But the um it goes back to that.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you've got to determine, man, in your life that you know, God is good, He is faithful.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: It may not work out.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I remember I remember having and and listen, it I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that the whole time never had a doubt, never had mom I had my moments with God.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm sure.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: I remember sitting, we would do all kinds of stuff that we felt like, you know, okay, we'll pray more.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we'll maybe we'll fast, uh, maybe we'll do this, maybe we'll do that, you know.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: We'll have we'll have I remember having a prayer meeting at the church, and Jenna was with because Jenna was would just go with us all the time to everything, you know.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: So she was there.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Bless you.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: She was there in the uh in the prayer meeting with us, and a couple people said, Let's pray for Jenna.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we we had this whole big prayer thing, we're anointing with oil, but doing it, you know, we're doing everything, everything the Bible says to do.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're doing it, you know, and uh and nothing happened.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I'll tell you when you said You know what I'm saying?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because you said something a little guy, you need your anchor before you need your anchor.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you need to know what you believe before you need to practice what you believe.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll tell you why this is important, even in like discipleship-based conversations.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: You may be watching this podcast, listening to this podcast, going, man, life is okay right now.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: You are surrounded with somebody that life isn't okay.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: And out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I can tell you, as walking through a tough situation, you walking through a tough situation, sometimes the people around us say dumb things because they don't have proper theology.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, my dad walked with God in vocational ministry almost his entire adult life.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: And it's so funny because people be like, you know, I wonder where he lacked faith.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, right.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: What are you talking about?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: My man served God in vocational ministry his whole life.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: And people go, well, if he only had more faith.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: If only he had done this.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder someone tell us, you know, if you had enough faith, this is before her transplant, if you had enough faith, she wouldn't need this transplant.
• 18:25
  unknown: Yeah.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, man.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, thank you.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: That's so thank you for that encouragement.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's so encouraging.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's why as a group of believers, it is really important to sink our anchor in the word of God and the presence of God, because we're surrounded by God's people that need substance.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and when we speak out of, I'll just call it like it is, uh, the older I get, the less filter I have, Bruce.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: When we speak out of ignorance, we do more harm than good.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: And we we may have the best of intentions, but ignorance with good intentions is a bad result.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_03: And uh this is why it's important for us to have our anchor before we need it and before those around us need it.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: So as you're walking this faith journey out, it's important for you to pause, for you to slow down and determine what do I believe?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: What do I believe about hardship?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so for instance, John 16, 33, so in this world you will have trouble.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: Here's a fundamental flaw.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: Just because you walk with Jesus doesn't mean that life is all pleasant.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: It means you're guaranteed paradise and eternity, but you're still going to walk through hell on earth.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: Because there is still hell on earth.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: There is an authority on this planet.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: It says the the powers of the kingdoms of the earth, right?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's there's an authority on this planet that is going to torment you.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: And Jesus stops and goes, hey, in this world, you will have trouble.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: Take heart.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: I've overcome the world.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's not that you've overcome the world.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's not that you overcame the situation with Jenna.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's not that I've overcome grief.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's that Jesus overcame the world.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: So unless I fall underneath his leadership, his lordship, I'm at risk.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm at risk to be tormented.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm at risk for discomfort and disappointment and discouragement.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and I think it's important before you walk through something hard that you ground yourself in something secure.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because we get in trouble when we have this expectation of what God, we put ourselves in the place of God, and we have this expectation of what God should do.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is how you should work this out.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I remember uh I remember watching a TV show, and we're in the middle of it.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is after after Jenna had had her brain injury, and you know, and and we're just dealing with all of that.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I I'm watching this TV show, and it was like a documentary kind of thing, but uh it was about people that had health issues and and uh and and it worked out for them kind of thing, right?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I'm watching this show, and there was this uh young man who had uh something in his brain, a tumor or something, and had to have a major part of his brain removed, right?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: So he had a big flat spot on the side of his head, and his mom uh was talking about how he was going back to college, had a big chunk of his brain removed, going to college, uh, and she was dressed, I mean she was uh a Muslim woman, and uh I remember in in that moment, this was this was one of my moments that I said I had I've had moments or at that moment.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: I shut the T V off and I said, God, I don't get it.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you would heal Jenna, I would tell the world about it.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And now here is th this person, you know.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, y you have to be careful too that when you see something happen for someone else.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can't let bitterness get in you.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to have that anchor of no, God is good.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: He's got a plan for my life.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: He's got a plan in all this.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like the way, I don't like this part of the journey right now, but I know there's a plan in this and be anchored in all of that.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: I'm reminded of David as he wrote the Psalms.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you go back and you read through the entire book of Psalms.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: The two most often questions that David asks is, why, O Lord, and how long, O Lord?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: And he goes through multiple chapters where he just laments.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why are my enemies coming against me?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: Why has this happened?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: Why am I so downtrodden?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: Why is this so bad?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: And he almost always finishes those rants with something along the lines of this yet I will praise the Lord again.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: And there's this, this I am in a temporary suffering.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I will tell you this too: faith doesn't deny your reality, it overcomes your reality.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's really important too, because there's this like blind positivity in Christianity too.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like, oh, everything's fine.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm good.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like, hey, really, you're missing an arm.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're probably not okay.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: Your daughter's not well.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: Your dad has died.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you don't have to deny your reality to have an anchor.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, the anchor overcomes the reality of the storm, right?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: And David would almost get to the end of these psalms and he would say this, yet I will praise God again.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: Meaning, my current reality is really bad, but my anchor says on the other side of this, I'm gonna stand and give God praise.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, you gotta get to that point of losing these expectations.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And they're really they're really uh when you were preaching this this past week, yeah.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you talked about do nothing out of out of vain conceit and selfish ambition and all that.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Philippians chapter 2.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: When I live my life with this expectation that God is supposed to come through for me the way I see fit in my timing, that's just selfish.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm saying?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I hate the fact that my daughter died.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: I just hate it.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: I hate the fact that she died.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: But the journey of uh living with a chronically ill child and then her eventually passing away has shaped so much in Terry and I.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's shaped so much of our faith, has has solidified our faith.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: We've we've seen, I mean, dealing with hospitals and sick children and all of that, all of our lives, we've seen sicknesses just destroy marriages, destroy faith, destroy all of that.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Just people walk away from God, walk away from each other, walk away from church, walk, walk away from life.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen people do that.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And our journey is that dealing with this difficulty made I mean it solidified our relate, terri and eyes relationship, our relationship with God, all of that.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm telling you, it all goes back to that anchor to be able to look back to and say, No.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm I'm I have questions, and there's nothing wrong with having questions.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've asked God tons of questions like this, hard questions.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I remember sitting in the front after that prayer meeting at church, sitting in the front row of the of the church in the dark, everybody else left.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Terry went home.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: I said, You go home.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna stay here and pray for a little bit.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it it wasn't, it was not prayers of oh Lord, thank you.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't pray in King James right there?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_03: Thou is hath covered in me.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: This came, I said this out loud.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: I said, God, I don't understand what's going on.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm right here now, and I am not leaving until you talk to me.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love those.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: I sat there in the dark and just like a replace expectation.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then I felt like after a few moments, I began to feel a little silly, and then I felt like the Holy Spirit said, just go home.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: I g I got this.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: I got this.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's another anchor.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you got this.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta trust you with it.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: I hate it.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: I hate what's happening.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but you got this.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: I gotta I gotta trust you with it.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I remember so my dad died of cancer in 2008.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: My mom remarried in 2012.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and Tommy had become a big part of our life.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, Angela's dad died of cancer in 2013.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: And Tommy was actually the only grandfather that my kids ever knew.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: Papa is what they called him.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: And Christmas, I mean Thanksgiving weekend in 2021, um Tommy died.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: My mom buried a second husband.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember it it it w he had cancer.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and it was probably more sudden than we were prepared.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: We knew he wasn't well.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_03: And him and my mom had come up for Thanksgiving weekend, and we were all together, and I'm looking at him going, Man, he's not well.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: And that's on like Thursday.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, they go to leave on Friday to go home to Florida.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: He can't walk out of the house, so they call for a lift and assist to get him in the car, help just to get him in the car.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: And they come and they say, He's too sick for us to offer this service.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: We got to take him to the hospital.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: So on a Friday, man, all the doctors in Florida tell my mom that he's gonna get better, it's fine.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: He winds up in the hospital on a Friday, and the ER doctor goes, This guy's dying.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, shocks my mom.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_03: So we rush, we get hospice involved on Saturday.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: Saturday afternoon, I meet with my mom in hospice.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: I come home to get Angela to go back to the hospital.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: And by the time I left to get Angela, before I even made it to Angela, he had died.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember coming into church on Sunday morning.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm supposed to preach.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: And our worship team is practicing.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: And what's the song?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not enough.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, would you meet me here?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: Here again, right?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: Here again, yeah.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: And they're practicing that.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I just fall down at the altar.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I love our teams at Venture Church.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: They just kept playing, they have no idea what to do.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: Here it is, it's awkward.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: I am bawling at the altar, and they're supposed to be rehearsing.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_03: And our team did such a good job, they just gave me a moment.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember sitting there going, God, I'm not enough to do this again.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not enough to walk through this again.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, if you don't show up in this situation, I can't.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: And you're like you, it wasn't this pretty, you know.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think people uh glamorize pastors like we're praying in this super spiritual language and this super spiritual words.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it was like God nothing rocks us.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like it was God that sucks.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like this sucks.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh this isn't okay.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and here's what I would tell you now that I've done this for a long time, you've done this for a long time.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody has questions.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: And let me tell you it's powerful.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: When you go through hardship, this may be the truth I want to deliver to you in this podcast.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: If your questions turn you towards God, you're gonna make it.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's the people that their questions make them run away from God that marriages break up, life gets hard, depression sets in.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: Because if my questions drive me to the feet of the cross, to the altar where I meet with God, at the end of the day, my faith comes out stronger.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's Jesus in John 16 saying, Hey, you're gonna have hardships, but you got to run back to me because I've overcome the world.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: The anchor of my soul, going back to that Hebrew scripture, is not in my ability.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's not in my self-confidence, it's not in me figuring it out.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's not in my dad staying alive and Tommy staying alive and Jenna getting healed.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's not in things going okay.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: And now that I've lived life in this regard long enough, I mean, listen, your kids make mistakes, people die, people get sick.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: You know, my theology of healing was shaped before I prayed for my dad's healing and it exists after my dad didn't get healed in the way I wanted.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: And let me tell you, I will still lay hands on people at the altar of venture church and I've seen people be healed.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen people be healed of cancer when my dad wasn't.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: And as a pastor, it's like, God, that's hard.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: You got to determine, like, no, this is what I believe, this is where the anchor is.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: I believe that God can do this, even though I didn't see the the perfect result that I wanted to see in some of my prayers.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm still gonna pray for people.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still gonna believe, I'm still gonna do this.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and the even with the questions, the questions aren't the problem.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: So many people think that, well, I'm not allowed to question God.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not allowed to question anything.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: The questions aren't the problem.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you said, it's I feel it's what what direction are you facing when you're asking the question?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Are you walking away from God, almost like mumbling under your breath?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't understand why God, why would God do this?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Why wouldn't God?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Why, why God?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Why God?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Turn to Him.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a question, if I have a question for you, I'm Alino, Sean, can I ask you this question?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and why wouldn't I just look to God and say, God, I don't understand this?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: God has, it's not like God's insecure.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like he's all right, you know, easy.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: He's kind of a big deal.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, most definitely He's kind of a big deal.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I would say there's a difference between asking questions and questioning.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, when I when I ask someone questions, I'm inquiring of who they are, I'm inquiring of why they did it.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm inquiring to learn, and there's a posture of humility in asking questions, right?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, when I was going through stuff, you're going through stuff, I I still remember we were making some uh backdrop for the church, and I may have painted some foam.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: And you aren't supposed to paint foam with the spray paint, apparently.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: I remember that.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I come into my office, you'll deal with that everyone, and there's this foam board in my office that's all eaten and it was busted.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: I broke it.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: There was a moment of rage in Bruce, right?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: And and I remember, like as we learned, I would ask you a lot of questions on how we were doing things because I needed to learn.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: There had to be a posture of humility for me to grow.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: If I come to you and I'm questioning you, I'm not posturing myself in humility.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm actually posturing myself in pride.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I would tell you a lot of time what we do is we allow our painful situation to grow pride in our hearts, and our pride leads us to questioning God, not submitting to God.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because the questioning it means I'm in the better.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Why did you do this?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Why didn't you do this?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know what should have happened.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's questioning.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm questioning intent.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm questioning character, I'm questioning methodology.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: Asking God questions, God, I really don't understand this.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: I really don't understand.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I did that.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and and I'll be honest, uh, I I, you know, I did the whole I'm making a deal with God.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: Hey God, if if if you would just heal him, I would, whatever.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, hey God.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: I even remember as my dad got to the end of his life, and this was my prayer.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: All right, God, if you're gonna take him, I'll find a way to be okay with that.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: But don't make it painful.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: He deserves, right?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: He deserves better.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I said.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and then the cancer got in my dad's bones, and it was so painful that he spent the last two weeks on morphine so we could just make him comfortable.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, God, you didn't even honor the one thing, the the the clause.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_03: You didn't even honor the condition of our agreement.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: And again, it it can grow into this pride.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and humility always provokes the grace of God.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what I would say if you're really working through a difficult, heartbreaking time.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm talking about the the stuff that rocks us to our core.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: Not you stubbed your toe, you know, not you had a bad day at work.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'm talking broke down.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm talking you lost somebody.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm talking about you've got a child that's not okay.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm talking about your marriages falling apart.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: Let me tell you, humility provokes God's grace.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: Pride provokes our destruction.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: And you may be going through it going, man, I don't get it.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: God's not afraid of your hum humble questions.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: But when we take on the prideful questioning who he is, we're building the resistance in our hearts and we're building distance between the only thing in our lives that can provide comfort, and that's the presence of God.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Why would why would I do something that's gonna why would I turn away from the only hope?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's like when when Jesus, when people were leaving Jesus, you know, and he he, you know, in the droves, you know, all the crowds that were following him to get the stuff from Jesus, you know.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh because that's where what it comes down to.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: If I have these expectations of how God's supposed to act in my life, that really shows an attitude of God, you're here for me.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here for the stuff, like the people that were following Jesus and feeding 5,000, all that kind of stuff.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: So and he turns to his disciples and says, Are you gonna leave too?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: And they say, Where else can we go?
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, where else can we go?
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Where else can we go?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Only you have life, only you have the words of life.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: We can there's nowhere else for us to go.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like that when you're in these difficult life-shattering uh moments.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you have you can't to turn away is foolishness.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's just absolute foolishness to turn away from God.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: We have to have that attitude of, okay, God, I don't understand this, I don't like this.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is the hardest thing I've ever been through in my life.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: But where else should I where else can I go?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Why would I turn away from the only thing that brings life, the only words that bring life?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Why would I stop reading my Bible, stop going to church, stop praying, stop?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm just turning away from life, the only source of life, yeah, you know, and the only source of comfort that I have in this difficult circum circumstance, you know?
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: That's so good.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: And and I would encourage you guys, you know, and just do that right there.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe, you know, maybe somebody sent you this.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, maybe you don't know Bruce and I at all.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_03: You don't know our story, you don't know our journey.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to take a moment, encourage you, turn back to the Father, like turn back to Jesus.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there's so much hurt and hardship in life, and we allow that hurt and that hardship to harden our heart towards God.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe you've been hurt by someone, you've gone through something that didn't turn out, you've lost a child.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_03: I've lost a father and a stepfather.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: And let me tell you, I remember the night that my dad died, the cries of my mom have permanently affected me.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: And and I could have easily let that disappointment and that God didn't answer the prayer the way I wanted him to harden my heart.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe that's where you are as a listener.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: You've allowed your heart to become hardened to the presence of God, to the holiness of God, to the word of God.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_03: Take this as an encouragement.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: Turn back now.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: Turn back.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's the only source of life.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: There's nothing else out there that can overcome the situation you have walked through that can provide peace in a moment where you're losing someone, you're walking through something.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: Turn back now because he is ready for you.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: And let me tell you that I think there's a shame on the other side of it when you go through that anger and you go through that disappointment.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: And then the shame gets so strong, it's like, well, I can't go back now.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: I've said all these things.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_03: God's not afraid of what you said, He's not afraid of what you've done, He's not afraid of how you reacted, inert, turn back now because it's the only place of source.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: And if you haven't walked through that yet, dig your anchor in now.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: As you were talking about the anchor, um, in this last year, I was sailing in the islands uh in the catamaran.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: And most of the time I do everything I can to be on a mooring ball.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: And we get down there and I've got a crew uh that is actually not my family at this time, it was my mom and some of her friends, and we pull into um Great Harbor Yost Van Dyke, and there's not a mooring ball available, but they all wanted to go to the restaurant that's there.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm like, cool, we'll sleep on the anchor, we'll sleep on the hook.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I created and set an anchor alarm on my phone, and this is an encouragement for you guys.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_03: And what would happen is if uh we moved too far, the boat moved too far, the anchor alarm would go off.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_03: Now I'll tell you I didn't sleep much that night because I was waiting for the anchor alarm to tell me my anchor had slipped.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I want to encourage you, you need to set some anchor alarms in your life where if your anchor starts slipping, you're getting too far from the presence of God, you've not been in the Bible, that that anchor alarm goes off and goes, hey, you need to reset this.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: And sure enough, about two o'clock in the morning, I'm trying to sleep up top and my phone just starts blaring like it's a big fire alarm in a building.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_03: Wakes me up.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I am freaking out, and I'm going, oh my goodness.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_03: And what had happened is I had so much line out, we were moving too much.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_03: I had gotten too far away from the anchor and I was swinging too much.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I had to pull some line back in to get closer to the anchor.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll tell you, over life, what happens is we start getting distanced from our anchor.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_03: We start getting too much line out.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: And man, as you're walking this faith journey out, as you're moving through it, I want to encourage you to set some anchor alarms.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, man, if you're getting older in life, and by that I mean you've got a lot of maturity and you've got a lot of responsibility and you've been through some hurt, you need to reset some anchor alarms because chances are you've drifted a little bit.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: And uh that anchor alarm probably saved.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: I was driving, you know, a multimillion dollar boat, had a lot of people, saved the responsibility because I pulled in the line and got closer to the anchor.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, give them a few truths that you've learned uh on handling difficulty, maybe a book, maybe a spiritual discipline, but some real practical things over your journey with Jenna, your life of ministry, walking through hardship.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: What are some real practical things that you did or installed in your life, whether it be anchor alarms or books that you read or people that you got close to?
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh give them some real practicals.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: We uh we used to do a seminar years ago and it it talked about, I used to teach it, and it talked about, you know, uh walking in the spirit and live basically living a spirit-led life.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that kind of instilled in us that um alarms, pretty much, those anchor alarms.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh so many times we live our lives in like in the flesh, in in our and not not just you know, out doing whatever, you know, living, but I mean based on our emotions, based on our our thought life or whatever, not being led by the spirit.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we we began to learn some alarms in our life.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: They say, I feel like this is creeping into my life.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because so many times you uh you see people that wander far away or uh from God or whatever, and then they say, I don't know how I got here.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: They drift like that.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: They I'm not sure how I got so far away from God.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: So putting things in your life, those that anchor alarms is so good, but having things in your life that you recognize like in a season of difficulty, man, I feel like bitterness is creeping in.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like a little bit of bitterness, you know.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: I see something happening for other people and it's not happening for me, and I'm sensing that.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: So God help me, help me in this area.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like this is bitterness is trying, or resentment, or doubt, or fear, or these different things that are creeping in.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just finding those uh being in tune with the spirit of God in you so that you can identify drifting.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, drifting away from something that's solid.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and plus, and and then also getting away from this mentality, and it's a very American Christian church mentality of that my life's supposed to be good.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: I deserve better.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: I deserve this, you know, I'm doing everything right, therefore, this should happen.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, getting away from that.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Book I read years ago called The Barbarian Way.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he tells tells the story of John the Baptist, you know.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: John the Baptist who had um who had, you know, behold the Lamb of God, sees Jesus, the Lamb of God.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not worthy to untie his sandals, you know, all of that.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, he's the way, you know, all of that.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of his life.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: He's in difficulty.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: He's in prison.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: He's gonna be beheaded.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: So he sends his disciples, go ask Jesus, Are you the one or should I look for another?
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: The same guy that you know, just before that is saying, Behold the Lamb of God, he takes away the sins of the world.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: He's I'm not worthy to untie his angels, is now saying, Are you the one?
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Or should I look for something else?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Should I look for another?
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: And here's what's interesting about that story.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus didn't change.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_03: John's circumstances changed.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: He was in difficulty now.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: And now he's saying, you know, I thought it was gonna go better than this.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: And Jesus' response is fascinating.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Go tell John.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: The blind see, the dead are raised, all this is happening.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: And and he then he says, and and blessed, he was not offended by me.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: So he he's saying, Listen, I can I'm doing all these things.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the blind are saying all this is happening, but John, you're gonna die.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: And don't be offended by that.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: Don't you know I mean, don't be offended by those things.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome about Jesus' response in that is everything he said was a confirmation to a prophecy that the Messiah would be fulfilled.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: So the the Messiah would open the blind eye, the Messiah would raise the dead, the Messiah would open the deaf ear.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_03: So he's answering your question.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: Am I he?
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, the blind eye are being seen.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_03: So you know that this is the sign.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: So he's really pointing John back to his own anchor, right?
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: Think about it.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: John would have known the scripture that the the Messiah is gonna open the blind eye.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_03: John would have known the scripture that the Messiah is gonna open the deaf ear.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: So he's pointing John back to his anchor and over his feelings.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: So John's feelings are fearful, going, man, God, how's all this gonna turn out?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: Is this gonna be okay?
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, John, remember the blind eye is being opened.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_03: I am the Messiah.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: I am who I said I am.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_03: I am who you said I am.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: Stay firm because this isn't gonna turn out the way you think, but I'm still the one.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I think oftentimes in our lives, when we get into that prayer moment with God, he wants to point back to, I've hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: And as you walk the journey out as you engage, I really do.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: I pray that you share this conversation with someone that's going through a hard time, share this podcast because what's awesome is you may not be in the office having the conversation with Bruce and I, but you can take this conversation, have one of your friends, have it with one of your coworkers, talk about hardship, but when you do it, incorporate scripture because that's the foundation.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_03: It is the anchor, right?
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_03: There's so many things about the Bible, right?
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: Hebrews 4.12.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: It divides my soul and my spirit.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_03: My soul are those mind, will, emotions, my spirits where I connect to God.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: So take an opportunity now, even, and share this with someone and have them watch it and say, let's get back together and talk about it.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_03: Subscribe for future conversations because we want to walk this journey out with you.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: The one thing I'll tell you about walking through my hardship is I couldn't have done it without you.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_03: I couldn't have done it without people.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll tell you this: there's a big trap when you walk through hardship that the enemy wants to bring the wrong people in.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm reminded of the paralyzed guy on the mat.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: Let me tell you, you got two types of friends, those that will carry your mat away from Jesus, and those that'll carry your mat towards Jesus.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because we all go through a time that something happens that paralyzes us.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: And those guys, man, they picked up the mat and they said, No, I'm getting you to Jesus.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_03: If I have to rip down the church ceiling, I'm getting you to the altar.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: I need some somebody in my life that's gonna bust the roof open for me.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I need someone in my life that when I don't have the energy, the will, the ability to get to Jesus by myself, they carry me back to Jesus.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_03: And there are times in your life, man, I've counseled so many people, their marriage has fallen apart, and their guys are going, let's go to Vegas for a little while.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_03: Stupid.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like honestly, let's go do a guy's trip.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_03: Stupid.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like you need some people, and maybe that was too aggressive.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_03: That's how you know I'm getting to the end of the episode, right?
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you need some people that you know what, they're willing to take you to the altar, not take you on a trip.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: They're going, hey, you know what?
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm coming by picking you up.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to church this Sunday.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I don't want to go to church.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't ask if you wanted to.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'm putting you in the car and we're going.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll tell you this as you go through hardship, the people you surround yourself are a big deal.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: So do us a favor, share this story with someone so that you can be the friend that's taking people to the feet of Jesus.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_03: Subscribe to this so you're not walking the journey out alone.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_03: We believe that life change happens in the context of relationship.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's why we invite you into these conversations.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: And we're so grateful that you've made a decision to follow Jesus.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: We're so grateful that you've taken time out of your life to listen and lean into a conversation on how you can become a disciple who's making disciples.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_03: So listen like, share, and subscribe for future episodes.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: Go have the best week of your life.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: And together, let's go change the world.