Latest / Books4Guys / How to Rebuild Your Life After Major Change | Christine Fruehwirth

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How to Rebuild Your Life After Major Change | Christine Fruehwirth · Books4Guys

• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up there, but I've lived in I've lived in Chicago and Charlotte and Delaware and yeah.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: So but I've been in the DC area for 20 some years now.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Twenty two years.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's all like the universities that you taught at or were part of.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: I live outside of DC in Maryland.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: I go into DC.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Christine, thank you so much for coming on the Books for Guys podcast.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: That was we were laughing before I push record.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, we had to reschedule this.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I appreciate your flexibility.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: But very excited to talk with you about you and your work that you've done.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Your book, obviously.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: I want to make sure I say it.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's on the Books for Guys website, but for anybody looking for it, The Four Stages of Living, Your Guide to Surviving Life's Storms and Thriving in the Aftermath.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, I don't care what part of life you're in, that there's there's something in this book that should resonate or or something you can take away from it.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm excited to talk with you because is this I believe this is a second edition of this book.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: The first edition came out about two years ago.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: And this book was the book though I was meant to write.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: So based on feedback I gotten from the first book, and I updated the research and I updated stories and then I added three chapters to it.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: One in particular I was really excited about, but a couple others as well.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: A couple other areas of life I broke out into chapters and yeah, and I updated my story and the others in the in the book.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, this is a book that I also have a lot more call to action in the second book for readers.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel really good about this one that just came out end of April.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: End of April, that's right.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's very exciting.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: So this is good timing.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a fresh release for all those listening.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: But Christine, what is your story?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because I like we were kind of again, we were talking a little bit off camera, and uh, I mean, a lot of your work has been around career development.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you've worked with young people at universities.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I know I I mentioned before I pushed record, you know, working with parents specifically who are trying to get back in the workforce or trying to find that flexibility that they haven't traditionally had.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: But what kind of start at the beginning?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: What got you into the space?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: What were some of the things that you just found your calling with and really what led you to authoring this book, specifically the second edition, as that seems to be the most purposeful one that that you've released?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, a little bit about my story.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: I used to do career counseling in college.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I went to Villanova University and I worked for the Career Center and I ran a peer mentorship program for several years there.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I always liked it.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: I always felt like your career is not your whole life, but it's a big part of your life.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, your waking life.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I really did feel even back in college that your your happiness level and your purpose in life can be very directly tied to your career.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: And what I did after Villanova is I got into banking.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: I went and got my MBA from University of Virginia, and I got into investment banking after that.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually had experienced like the just not loving that job.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was a grind, it pays well, and it's like, you know, it's it's very intriguing and challenging, but like I didn't feel the purpose and I didn't feel connected to that job.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I got a couple other jobs after that that I liked better.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: But when I became a parent, when I I've had I have three adult children, now 26, 23, and 20.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And but I was raising these children working at a startup, and I realized I was the first woman, any first person to go on maternity leave at this startup.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I only had six weeks to get back.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I'm trying to be, you know, I was on a senior management team and I was trying to actually raise my two young children at the time.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I tried to work part-time, and I loved that.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: I actually like I was still very challenged, but I also was with my little kids and they didn't like that so much.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And they said you have to come back full-time or we'll do something else with you by basically we didn't like this situation.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: And again, this was when my son was one and he's 26 now.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually decided to take a few years off.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was having my third child, my younger son, he that's when I was like, I really want to go back to career coaching and I really want to help women navigate being a mom and also working and staying in the workforce, if if it's it's all possible, versus exiting out.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I started this company, Flex Careers Consulting.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: I've been focused on women either re-entering the workforce who have taken that break, which I've didn't I've done it and I get it, and it's very worthwhile, but they lose a lot of confidence, professional confidence when that happens.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm there as a guide to help them build that back up and address the gaps on their resume.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also work with working moms who are just trying to figure out the next step.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's executive coaching, sometimes they're trying to step up and into a higher role.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes they're actually trying to just either start their own business and have the flexibility, or they're going to go try to go part-time and help them arrange, make arrangements for that.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then at one point I had to, I was actually responsible for all of my my ex-husband.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: He uh lost his job in the financial crisis.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then I had to go find like full-time work.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's when I started at the university, GW first, and then Georgetown.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I really also got very passionate about helping young people in college find that first job out through internships.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I taught a class there, both both universities.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: I taught a class called Career Management Strategy.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: I also taught a Wall Street boot camp.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so because I had the financial services background, I was able to help my students get into financial services in the different capacities.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so now I have that client group as well.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: So young adults, either in college or recent grads.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And is that what primarily so I want to I have I could go a lot of different routes with what you just said because I've had a few conversations in kind of each of those groups, you know, and I'm I'm sitting here thinking, you know, again, we could go way far into it.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: But America's not very good when it comes to parental leave compared to other countries.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very unique thing, and and I get all the dynamics of it.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Companies are moving fast, so it sometimes they tell themselves they can't have this flexibility.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think, I think we've gotten better at it.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're still nowhere near where we need to be at to provide, especially mothers who want to work, that type of flexibility.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm assuming it's challenging for you because on one hand, you're helping the particular individual navigate a tough environment to be able to work, but you're also up against a large mountain, you know, trying to get companies to kind of transition the way they think too, to kind of play matchmaker, you know, in a sort of way.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's again, I've been in recruiting and I've had these conversations with managers and candidates, and it's just a I don't know how you win, it's a unique situation.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully we continue to progress and get better there.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um but then I'm thinking of young people too, especially like now, post-COVID and just AI and all these things that you and I didn't have to experience coming out of college.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we we kind of had a more of a traditional route, I'm assuming, to where went to school, had some interviews lined up, you know, entry-level job was pretty, pretty, pretty easy to find, you know, for the most part.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well it wasn't as competitive to get it either.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I can't imagine the challenges of of either of those groups, but is that specifically some of the things you talk about in your book?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Or how what are some things you focus on specifically there?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Does that stem from these situations or what all is involved, you know, specifically?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I wasn't able to address in the book as much.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: I touch on it, but I think when I finished I put pen down, it was like almost a year ago because of the publishing process.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I put the pen down, I think Labor Day weekend last year was I didn't get into AI as much, but I'm following it very intent intentionally now.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like that is really impacting recent graduates.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, in fact, the I think the unemployment rate is double for 18 to 25 year olds versus the the rest of the country.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I do a lot of work with my that client group around AI and how to make sure that you have you're ahead of it and you have the skill sets that make you very competitive as a candidate.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I am also concerned that it's also impacting that first layer, right?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: The first layer is, you know, there's reductions there for sure.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of these companies are taking out parts of their workforce, including that bottom layer of the pyramid.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, but I do think that with COVID, as you mentioned, is impacting our younger people just because they don't have the social skills or the networking skills or even the interview skills that I think the clients that I worked with before COVID, because I think that as a society, they were very impacted around that.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think that I try to help them with those skills.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big part of what I do is like why to me, networking has always been important, but it's more important now than it's ever been.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's so easy to apply for jobs.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's it's very frictionless to apply to jobs.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: But then these companies get thousands of resumes and applications, not just 10 or 20 or even 100.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're getting like up to like a thousand, especially those that the postings on LinkedIn.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, somebody you can just upload and they're good, right?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: But then they have to weed through all those applications using AI, using an automated process.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen that really evolve in the last three to five years, and it's accelerating.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, I've always told all my clients, you have to network, you have to be known, you have to show that you've done your research.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you've met people who work there.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: That gives you the leg up when you're talking about this like sea of applications.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's how you so I really do think that that's a big message, and I talk about that in the book, but I also do that one-on-one with all my clients, is just like networking is not just a nice to have.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's like really, really critical.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then I really do work on even before I get into networking skills and interview skills, we talk about what is it that you really want to do?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: What are you good at?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: What are your skills, values, and interests?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then we find that intersection because you'll do better.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have a client right now where he's been going on interviews, but he doesn't really want the job.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: He's just applying because he needs to get a job.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that, you know, it's like, what is it that you really are passionate about doing that you want to get up every morning and do for the rest of your life?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe not the rest of your life, but at least for the next few years that you're really excited about.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then that message will come through when you are recruiting.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully that answers your question.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm I really like that you brought up networking and specifically, and I love that you talked about doing things you like to do too.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Not not every job you're gonna love by any means, but um, that's kind of a thing we've got about books for guys, is if you if you read something you're actually interested in, then you'll probably read more, you know, and learn more.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's this this train of curiosity and personal development that can take place with the right books, but you gotta be interested in them.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of the same with the job.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: You can you can tell immediately if someone's not into their job.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's you gotta find something that you can at least tolerate, you know, and not absolutely hate.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I love the networking piece that you were talking about because I think a lot of people, and we can you were talking about you know, COVID, but even just text messages and social media, that's that's really minimized social skills and interview skills too, just because you don't have to talk face to face as much.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of people, I think networking gets tossed around that it's this easy thing where you can go to a happy hour, go to some business event, and as long as you shake a couple hands, it's probably gonna lead to a job.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: But really, networking has to be something that you do very intentionally, and it can take some time to build those genuine relationships that that actually do maybe lead to something.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I think a lot of people, and again, this can go back to technology too, where things you can solve things really fast with automation and stuff.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, like the patience level for a lot of people is not there, but the networking piece, it is the most important thing you can do to get where you want to go.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes I think people need to realize too, it can take maybe longer than what you anticipate because you do have to put a lot of work and time into it and be intentional about it.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think a lot of people need to to know and hear that going into that's not something easy to that it's it takes your work to get out there and meet people and build those relationships over time.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's an investment.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the saying is you build a network before you need it.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to build a network when you are actually looking for a job.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Particularly, I try to I would always try to emphasize that with like my college students and also like my son, who's you know, a sophomore in college, he's he's trying to network to get that great junior year internship.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: He's going into sophomore year, but I'm like, it's an investment, right?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it's uh and I think that people think, well, I'm not getting that immediate result, so it's not worth it.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: But like you just said, it's like the long-term strategy.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I'm a big fan of just like tracking all of your contacts and then checking in with people.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And when you do meet with someone, most likely they're not gonna be able to find a job for you, but maybe they know somebody.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like that, you know, that layer out that keeps going outward that it's it's it's not the people you know, but the people that they know.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And when you have a a positive interaction and like set up a meeting, call it informational interview, where you lead the conversation, you come with the questions, you have your 60-second pitch ready about what you're looking for and who you are and what you've done.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: But it's also just, you know, it's like once you have that conversation, then you say, Well, who else do you think I should talk to?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's that's how networking works.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it like you said, when we're we're in this society of like, you know, this immediate gratification, it that's not what networking is, but it is certainly worth the it is certainly pays off in the end.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's how I've gotten I got my Georgetown University job from a contact from George GW, and I didn't have to apply for a job.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: I just was recruited over.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so that happens all the time.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I also got another job that way from you know, a two-way street networking and a you know relationship.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people are are scared of rejection, but if you can get over that fear fear too, you know, if someone can't help you, you know, no no big deal.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the worst that they can say is hey, I don't know anyone.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool, on to the next person.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think that's part of it.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm curious too, and this may this may tend to lead more to maybe some of the parents aspect of of things, but I know one thing I've noticed is actually more you you talked about younger kids, fresh grads needing to learn networking.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: I've actually seen it more with seasoned professionals who maybe have been at a company for 20 years and all of a sudden they're part of a layoff and they don't have a network because they just they got comfortable, they didn't meet with people from other companies, they didn't really network with peers in other places.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then they seem to be the ones really trying to figure out this new age of networking.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they didn't they didn't spend a lot of time on LinkedIn, they didn't go to happy hours or go to advance their uh what do you call them, like summits or just things to go, you know, learn more about, and they they're having a hard time, you know, and I'm having to coach them up on the networking piece, and I bet you see that a lot too.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so, right.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: So my stay-at-home moms, they've let their network kind of, you know, it's become outdated or or they've kind of not been nurturing area.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing, like you just said, it's a really good point that seasoned professionals who get laid off, and that's been happening a lot around my my neck of the woods with doge efforts and things like that, because I live right outside of DC.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think that uh one of the things that I really focus on w is is is your organic network.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and I teach people how to use LinkedIn, it sounds like you do as well.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's an important tool for sure, but it can't all be done there.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: But it's to really go back and look at the people that are in your life.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe if you, you know, you you have parents at your kids' schools, or if you are a member of a synagogue or a church, and you have to start thinking about that and thinking about your friends or you know, your your kids' friends, or your parents' friends, or your siblings' friends, or something like that.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's where I really like we we have a whole session on like who do you know?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: And even if your spouse has maybe, you know, they don't have the connections, but then who's in their network?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you're not interested in their industry, but still, who is it that they know?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we do have like a whole we a whole effort on listing and it actually makes people feel better.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, and then you just have to start reaching out and saying, I'm actually now looking for a job.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, but being prepared as to what that is is really critical because I said, like, if you go into an interaction, you're like, I don't know what I want to do, people are very unlikely to be able to help you.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's not gonna be a very productive interaction.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's you do you have to sit back?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was on a news program, I think la last fall, where I say they asked me, like, what would you advise people to do if they get laid off?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I said the first thing is not to apply for a job all right all of a sudden is to step back and get your resume in order and also figure out maybe this is your second act.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe this is something that you haven't liked.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: My second act was coaching.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: My third act was being an author.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and other people, I love those stories where people are like, I've I kind of did a pivot here.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I did something very different, and maybe I wasn't planning on it because these circumstances happened, but here's my opportunity.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: I might not have not, I might have not started this business, or I might not have like started teaching.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: That was another thing that kind of fell in my lap.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: But it, you know, people like this could be your second act or third act, even.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so that means just step back again, assess your what happened, but you gotta agree what happened if you get laid off, but you have to move forward, but you get to control how you move forward and really assessing again your skills, your interests, and your values.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, absolutely.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, another word I've I've taken away and and uh just had a conversation with Boo, who's a former Christian first name fighter pilot.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he he I he uses the word debrief.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that as when things happen, taking a moment to pause.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if it didn't go the way you thought, let's take a look back, feel the layers back.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, now let's move forward.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a good time to debrief is maybe that situation where you've been laid off and go, okay, what why did I get laid off first?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: What do I want to do moving forward instead of just immediate action that may not be the best, you know, may lead you somewhere you don't want to go.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Just take a quick second, pause, think things through, and then move forward with intentionality and a focused goal makes makes that transition maybe a lot smoother.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: But seeing, I was gonna ask you, I I would assume obviously getting laid off is one of these life's storms that you're talking about, you know, getting past and thriving in the aftermath.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: What are some other storms per se that you write about that people go through and how can they transition past that period to be, you know, experience success on the other side of it?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I do I do get into relationships and things like that as well.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I led with careers as I'm an expertise, but I also do life coaching.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh I do in the beginning of the book talk about the need for healing and the need for recognizing in the four stages of of living or surviving, stabilizing, emerging, and thriving.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've tried to lead people through getting out of survival mode, which is really bad for you from an emotional, mental, and physical well-being standpoint.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: But even in the stable place, you can get stagnant.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I talk about like the connection between the benefits of being content versus the risk of stagnation.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of my clients are stuck.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I talk about what are the reasons behind that.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then the second half of the book is like certain challenges that you may face.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, as I mentioned, I'm divorced and I had to, I went through that.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And there's something called the gray divorce, and it's really, you know, there's a lot of people in that where they have a long-standing marriage, and then how do you go through an identity change?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so it can be one of the more devastating things.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: I talk about loss, I talk about estrangement, family estrangement, which is something I've unfortunately had to deal with, but also we lose people that we love.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: I talk about my health challenges that I've had I've dealt with due to stress.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people face either they're facing health challenges or they have loved ones that are facing health challenges.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: And we deal with that.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also deal with sometimes just even going to the empty nest might not be a challenge, but it's a major shift in identity, and people go through a grieving process through that.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: So the my big message through the book is that life transitions can be transformational.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: But first you have to realize that you're gonna grieve your last chapter or you're grieving your identity.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: So even if you are getting married, you're grieving being, you know, your single life.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: When you become a parent, which is a beautiful, lovely thing and exciting, it also you're grieving you're the freedom that you were that you had before you had children, and then you grieve when they leave you.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And if you end a relationship or you end a marriage, you are gonna deal with that identity shift.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where the mixed emotions come from.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I think keeps people stuck.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I think I do address a lot of different life challenges, ones that I've gone through and I bring in 10 other people that, you know, I have a really close friend who's highlighted in the book.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: She's this amazing artist.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: She used to be a lawyer, but she had two rounds of breast cancer.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I've had some one person in my book, her husband took her his own life, which didn't see that coming.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then how she get through that.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like she talks about how she managed through the that crisis.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: I have another young man in my book who he just he his upbringing was just you can't, he was homeless.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, now you can see him now, but he he talked about how he got through his childhood.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I do talk about my story and I do talk about my son's story who went through a devastating middle school experience and we had to build him back from scratch.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And he ended up thriving by his senior year of high school, but and now he's doing great in college.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, his adolescence was really devastating.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I do try to address it with hope though.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not bogged down in all these things, but it's hopefully people don't feel like they're alone, that they feel like they're and I talk about you know resilience and how to have that right positive mindset and have goals in life, and then also have knowledge and skills, which I think equates to full potential.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was just one of my questions coming into this conversation, Christina.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was as you were writing the book, who is this book for?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: But this book is for everybody because everyone's going to go through at least one or multiple of these life challenges.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Whether that is losing someone, we're all going to lose someone at some point.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: We are, yeah.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Grief is family health issues.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: We probably we all have someone that's dealing with some sort of health issue, and we probably all know someone who's gone through a devastating experience of some sort or another.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's yourself, you know, or someone else.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so everyone can take something away.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I I like how you say this too.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: You come at it with a you try to end it with hope, but I like that everyone, the main thing here is you're not alone.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there is someone, and I preach this a lot too about books on just no matter what situation you've gone through, no matter what life event, no matter what you want to accomplish, there's someone out there that's probably written about it and is almost like a blueprint or cheat code that you can go find and figure out how they did it, how they got through it.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that way you know, okay, if they can do it, then I can do it.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: If other people have experienced this and and came out on the other side and they're okay, that's good for me.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: That gives me hope.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that you you mentioned that.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Christine, I just got two more questions for you.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is fantastic.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is such a powerful conversation, and I love the the positivity and just the truthfulness to it too.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's not, you know, you're not shying away from what this is all about.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: But if someone just takes one thing away from your book, just one lesson that you hope, if they don't take anything else from it, what is something you hope that sits with them that they can take moving forward?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that if you the the adversity piece of it is not just dealing with adversity, but the fact is that you can actually thrive in life, right?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to be stuck in a situation that you don't want anymore.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: You can actually, and I do talk about the fact that you can't go from surviving to thriving directly, but there is this framework that I put together that is, and I really go into in depth what those those stages of life are and how do you navigate them, and that it's a framework that you're gonna go back and forth with.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like thriving is not the destination that you're gonna stay there generally.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna have a setback.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think the biggest message is when you have a setback, it can set you up for the greatest comeback.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's my biggest message at the end of the day.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that healing, the second thing is is that in order to become a whole person, you have to heal your emotional holes.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so those are the two big things I would say.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: That sometimes a step or two back just means you're preparing for a major leap forward if you can have that right approach and mindset.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I love I love that.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: I also love that too.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: It it can be very hard to pivot when you're experiencing something that's challenging.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: But if you can figure out how to shift and and pivot to the right direction, it can be so refreshing and beneficial.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're on the other side of whatever it is you're going through, there's not a better feeling.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because then also you can help other people and you've got a story to tell, and you can you've helped yourself, but at some point you'll be able to share that and help provide hope or motivation to someone else as well.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I addressed that in the last chapter of the book is exactly that.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Once you have navigated the survive to thrive journey, then especially as you get later in life, is to then help others on theirs.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's a whole thing about giving people second chances and forgiveness and then service to others is how I end the book.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that was perfect then.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Then it's perfect to end our conversation.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was perfect.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love that.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone needs to to kind of hear that message too.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: But Christine, last question for you.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you've listened to a couple episodes, so you kind of know the question I always ask, just because people uh it's a it's a fun question because your answer could be different if I asked you last year versus next week, you know.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I just it could change.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: But what is a book or two that has meant a lot to you personally or professionally?
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: And what's a book you love to recommend to others?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: So the one that I would say, and I quote Renee Brown a little bit in my own book, is it's she's written many books, but the one that I think had the most impact on me is one called Rising Strong.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's basically how to get up.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, she calls it the messy middle, but it's basically that helped me get through the COVID, it helped me get through my divorce.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: That that's a book that really I thought motivated me.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then a book that I really like to sort of support this initiative that I've just talked about, which is to have the second act.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's called The Second Mountain by David Brooks.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it he talks about how like you get to that first mountain that you know, when we're younger, we we we're we get we achieve all the way up to that first mountain.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then sometimes you get up to the mountain and you realize, well, I don't want to be on the downside, but I don't know.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kind of done here at the peak here.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: So he helps you identify what that second mountain is.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Good recommendations.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: I love those.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Christine, this has been such a good conversation, and what you're doing is so impactful.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, you know, whether you envision this for your life or not, it's very cool to see your progression or or learn about it, like where you started and where you're at now, and just the the amount of people you can impact through your book and just sharing stories for for people to take.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, it's it's great, these conversations are good, but sometimes one-on-one you can't reach as many people.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: But now you have something published, and you may never know who you've had an impact on or help, but it's out there, and no doubt it's gonna help someone through a difficult time or transition.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so um so proud to spotlight your book and your work and uh just keep doing what you're doing.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's some so many more people to impact.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: You have so much to offer, and uh we're excited to support you and all that you're doing.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Chris.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for your support.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate that's very sweet and trying to do here, which is to help more people and have a platform.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to be on your podcast.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: I enjoyed our conversation.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: We appreciate it, Christine.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.