Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Investigating Transformation with Enneagram Five Bethany Smith

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Investigating Transformation with Enneagram Five Bethany Smith · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_00: We were in Italy, which is super fun, but Italy doesn't have the best bus transportation system.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: And so we were both kind of going to our stress points because we're like, we don't know where we're going.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: And we're in a four country and nobody speaks English.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: Somewhat challenging.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: So she as a nine went to her six in stress.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: And she kind of became paralyzed with fear.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, I went to my seven and I was like, I'm just going to get on the bus and we're just going to go.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: And if I hadn't gone there and been in that point, we wouldn't have gone anywhere and has seen the beautiful, amazing things in Italy and gotten to our destination or anything.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: We would have just stayed there and I don't know, maybe gone home.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: But we had an amazing experience because my stress point was like, we're gonna go.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: Hi, my name is Amy Wicks, and I help you navigate the overwhelm and frustration of motherhood through faith, Enneagram, and simple plans.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: As a faith-based Enneagram coach, I champion you to love your mothering style because you are the mom your kids need, even when you don't feel like it.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm a mountain mama who somehow ended up on a cul-de-sac in the Midwest, overwhelmed and frustrated by motherhood.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: But the Lord didn't let me stay there.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: He helped me turn the challenges of motherhood into a wholehearted decision to get intentional with my faith, my self-awareness, and my family.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: Each episode of this podcast provides perspective through story, wholehearted purpose, and simple plan so you can discover how to love your mothering style and be confident that you are the mom your kids need.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: Think of this podcast as your on-the-go mom pal and friend who can't help but talk about Jesus and the Enneagram.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: So get to that pile of laundry, or hit the treadmill, or load up the kids in the car for that grocery run.
1:59
SPEAKER_01: Get ready to be encouraged and empowered while you listen.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: This is the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: In this conversation, she is providing so much insight about the inner world of a type 5 and fabulous tips for those of us who love a type 5 and want to strengthen our relationship with them.
2:43
SPEAKER_01: There is so much to learn about Bethany, so I'm gonna let her share as we jump right into the conversation.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: Also, we chat about my exciting event happening next month.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm hosting the Wholehearted Enneagram Summit.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: It's the first of its kind with 20 well-known faith-based Enneagram experts to provide you with specific insights to help you overcome the communication obstacles that hinder your relationships.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: Make sure that you are following Wholehearted Enneagram on Instagram and get my weekly emails so you don't miss the Christmas in July bonuses for this event.
3:18
SPEAKER_01: And by the way, if you're interested in specific episodes about the Enneagram Type 5, check out episode 172 in my Motherhood and Enneagram series and episode 108 in the summer in the Enneagram series from 2019.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: I've led this small group for years.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: We've done Enneagram for Motherhood, we've done motherlessness, we've, you know, done like all sorts of different things, and now we're talking about friendship.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: But the hardest ones to get there are the Enneagram fives.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: I have to beg and control.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: I provide free coffee, free food.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: The babysitting is super cheap, but yeah, fives, you know, it's it's hard.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: I sometimes I feel like I'm a bit of an anomaly because I do I do like to be social, but it's with a very, very select few people.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: It's not, I'm not the one to go to a party, you know, I'm not the one to go out and celebrate and go see all the people.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, it scares me.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: So I understand the five five.
4:20
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: But that's so you might be more on the social side of a five.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: I am.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I've I think I haven't done a lot of research with the subtypes, but I do think I'm a social five subtype.
4:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, because I am a teacher.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: And so amazing forcing to be in front of people every day talking to children has made me a lot more social and comfortable sharing knowledge and talking to people.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: Um so I do think I'm more on the social side of that.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: No, that that for sure would require at least that to be higher if it's not the top, the mid.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: I I have three close family members who are fives.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: They all happen to be male.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: I actually I take that back, four.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: One is one is female, and it is fascinating to see the subtypes played out so uniquely in them and to see the self-preserving as opposed to the one-to-one and then the social, and they cover the gamut between the four of them.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: Of course, levels of health play into it.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: Right.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: Right.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, it's just so fun.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: I I love fives because for me, fives are the line of growth.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: So I and I try to remain a lifelong learner and walk in humility and realize I do not know it all and I have lots of room to grow.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: So I think fives' ability to savor, to to go slower, to really put time into thinking before doing, which is not my strong suit.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: All of those things, I'm like, yes, I want to be more like you.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: That's so awesome.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: So Grace, my partner in Indianerds, she's also a seven.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so she her and I relate because we do share the line.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: Of course, I go to a seven in stress.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: But if I'm looking like you, that's a problem.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: And so I tell her, I'm like, if I stop caring, that's an issue for me.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: So anyway, so yeah, she's told me the same thing where she enjoys spending time with me because I help ground her and slow her down.
6:37
SPEAKER_00: And we talk about the any Enneagram and we talk about our research that we look, you know, I do a lot of research, and so we we talk about that and we just have these really great conversations.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of jumping the gun here, but that's kind of how our podcast started.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, was we're both huge fans.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: Her and I have been friends for a couple of years, and when I met her, she actually did scare me because she is a seven, and I was like, that's a lot of energy.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: Guilty.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, but we became friends, um, regardless, and we both talked about the Enneagram, and then we just started having these really fun conversations about it, and we're like, we need to record our conversations because we have two totally different perspectives.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: I probably have uh you know, a seven's ability to reframe is something that's really interesting to me because I see things so black and white a lot of the time.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay, he tends to see the silver lining on everything, yeah.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: So which I think is I think it's awesome because I see the hard truth of it all.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: So I'll deliver the hard truth and then she'll come in and be like, but it's so great because of this, you know.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's awesome.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: It's like a it's a perfect setup there because I see it too from the flip side of where the so I recently worked on a book called Should Christians Use the Enneagram?
8:01
SPEAKER_01: I had done a few episodes in the fall outlining it because it's a question I got all the time.
8:07
SPEAKER_01: And so instead of writing it all out, I thought I'll just record this and send people to that.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: But then even as I did the recordings, to keep it brief and succinct, I didn't even cover all the things that were possible, nor could I answer all the quote unquote arguments.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: But what I but what I thought was for me the the best aspect of the growth piece that I saw in this was that I was willing to face my fear that indeed I would find out I shouldn't use the Enneagram because I was gonna be sad.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: And I was willing to face hard facts and research it and dig.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh, that means I I did ride that line of growth and was willing to look into it and look at the black and white and then come along too and go, okay, these are the black and white things.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: But then then also, what is like how can this be taken and used in a way that is beneficial, that is good and healthy, that produces good fruit.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: And ultimately for me, that's where I land, you know, like surprise, surprise.
9:11
SPEAKER_01: You can judge some judge something by its fruit.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: Right.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: And for me, and I know people like you and my friends are listening, we go, we see good fruit.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: We at least want to be curious about it and just see what it could do for us.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: I I totally uh believe that the Indian Graham is something that was divine, like divinely inspired, you know.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, I've read the book uh self to lose, self-defined.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: Yes, Marilyn Van Still.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, one of the best ones out there.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: Right.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: And I that book totally changed my perspective on it because the first book I read was The Road Back to You, which I think everybody's kind of familiar with.
9:46
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: I love that book, but it is written from a, I think Ian Morgan Cron's a four wing five.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: Or four, yeah.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: And so he, you know, tends to also put in the hard truths there.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: And so you read that book, you're like, oh my goodness.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how I feel about myself.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: A lot of terrible information for me.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to, you know, I don't want to know this about myself.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: And so I also read the self loose fine, and I love the way that she put it, how like each one of the numbers represents one of God's characteristics and how like just naturally it just flows out of us and it makes me feel so much better about myself.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: It's this gift we can offer others, yes, when the commit the idea of being the hands and feet of Jesus.
10:33
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's one of the ways.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: I think we can grow in our maturity and our walk and in our personality to exemplify a more fullness, but it's also the example where it goes into in Corinthians, I think it's first Corinthians, but just the idea that there's many parts to the body.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: And so this is where it plays in, I think, really beautifully of going, well, I can't also be, you know, the fullness of an eight and a nine.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm best suited to be a healthy seven, and I'll let the eights and nines jam in there what they have to offer.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: Right.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: That is, yeah, that's totally correct.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: Well, I love how we launched Right In.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: We got to conversation.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: We're we're not going in any form and fashion, which could be like an Enneagram fives worst nightmare.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: Maybe more for a one.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: I I love this.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: I'd like to back up a little bit.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: We know you're a school teacher.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: We know that you and your friend are, and it's Grace, right?
11:33
SPEAKER_01: I've got yes, Grace.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so it's Bethany and Grace who run Enne Nerds.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: I want to hear the story about that, but tell us a little bit about you as far as your Enneagram discovery journey, and then we're gonna kind of go from there because we wanna we wanna focus and impact the fives a little bit because there's not as much out there, like fives are a little quieter and harder to find.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm realizing.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: I bet to this is that fives are hard to find.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, I actually don't even have a lot of fives in my life.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh I my sister-in-law is a five, but we're vastly different, and she's like the only five that I that I know.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: Wow, yeah.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: Right.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: And so um, I just don't think fives gravitate towards each other, which is fine.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: It's that makes total sense.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: Right.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: Or to a lot.
12:19
SPEAKER_01: They, I mean, there is that independent, uh smaller, um, the smaller the better mentality, and that's real.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: And so that I think that kind of impacts maybe the amount of fives that are fives.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: So the way I get introduced to the Enneagram was probably four years ago.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I had a friend who uh she's a type nine, and she read the book, and then she immediately was like, Bethany would love this, and pass it on to me.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: And when she told me about it, she said it's the chapter that makes you feel the ickiest that you know you're and I say the book, The Road Back to You is the book that she passed on to me.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's the chapter that you have an emotional reaction to, that's what number you are.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Okay, I was blind, I knew nothing about it.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: So I started, I read the introduction to understand what it was, and then I was like, I just want to dig in.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: So I read all the 20 statements at the beginning of each chapter, and I was like, I read the nine, I was like, that's not meaning or the eight, I was like, that's not meaning.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: So I just skipped over the chapter because I was like, I want to get to mine.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: So I got to the five chapter, I read through the statements.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, well, that's definitely me.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: So I'm reading through the chapter, and I'm not having like a huge emotional reaction.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, maybe I don't have a personality.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: Like maybe I just I don't know.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: No, so I read and I got to a line in the book that said, um, fives are gonna have the least emotional reaction to this book.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: Fives take time to process emotion.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh my gosh, that makes so much sense.
13:57
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
13:57
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for saying it right.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and so I read it and then I was like, okay, cool.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: I think I'm five.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: And then I read the sixth chapter.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: And I had like probably a mini heart attack because I also related heavily to the six.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh I do have a lot of anxiety, and I, you know, I do have fear and worries.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I had a hard time kind of deciding which one I was for a long time.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: It probably took me several months before I finally decided I was a five.
14:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I had to look at my core motivation and think, why do I do what I do?
14:39
SPEAKER_00: And I suffer with the avarice or the greed, which is just hoarding time and energy.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: And I still do it to this day, even though I'm aware of it.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: It's just something that I struggle with.
14:50
SPEAKER_00: And yes, I struggle with fear, which is what sticks to struggle with, but it's not my driving force.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm more concerned with my time and my energy and spending it wisely and conserving it.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, wow.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: That that's beautifully said.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: And the fact that you took your time is so key.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: A lot of us, and you know, it's part of our culture.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: We we get anxious and we want to find out, just tell me what number I am.
15:19
SPEAKER_01: I hear a lot, just you know, and it it's they just want this label.
15:24
SPEAKER_01: And that's where I get sad sometimes because I know people like you and I would go, yes, it's awesome to figure out what type is you lead what you lead as, but it's not meant to be a label or put yourself in a box.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: It's meant to free, free yourself from the box, free yourself from the things that hinder you to become aware of, oh, I might be motivated to be hoarding my time and to be greedy about my energy.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: How can I approach this in a healthy way that does still allow me to have the energy I need for what I need it for?
15:56
SPEAKER_01: While also going, you know, maybe I need to to change course here or to give a little bit more than I think I can.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: Well, and and once I realized that I was hoarding in my time and energy, I my prayers kind of started changing because I started to, you know, rely on the Lord and realize, you know, He's the one that sustains me.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: So good.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: You know, um, when I would get anxious about not having enough energy to do something, I would still go and I would tell myself on the way there, like the Lord will sustain me.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: It will be okay.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: That's beautiful.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: Man, I love that.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: That's so true that it changes our prayers.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: It does.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: I love that because there is truth to that.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: I couldn't not that, I mean, the Lord can answer my prayer fine, and he can, you know, all of that, but I could articulate and communicate to God.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: It's just like how we understanding how to commute communicate our love needs to those we're in relationship with, suddenly we can communicate to the Lord.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: I realize, you know, for me too, the whole the gluttony, like what a strong word.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: Like I say that, I'm like, oh.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: So Lord, satisfy me with your love.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: Let let my life be enough.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: Let this meal be enough.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: Let you know, my relationships be enough, all those things that I'm inclined to go after to gather more of in instead of just being content with what I have.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's been powerful.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: I beautifully said.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: I love how you said that.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so for those who don't know a lot of fives, or maybe they don't even know if they know a five, give us in your language, your words, how would you describe not just yourself necessarily, but maybe some of your experience, how your mind works, and fives in general.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: So we can learn because we want to learn about each other.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: So uh fives are in the head triad.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I'm telling you that thought spiral is real.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: And sevens are also in the head triad.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: So belong to that group.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: Uh so we think before we do anything.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: We think before we feel, we think before we act.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, that's why it could take a minute for fives to do something.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: They have to think it through uh before they do it.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, and for me, um, in the head triad, as a five, the way we cope is by research and gathering all the knowledge that we can in order to make the best possible decision.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, we're not making decisions based off how we feel.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, it may, I may feel not great that day, but I'm still going to do something because I didn't make the decision off of how I feel.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: I made it out of logic.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: And so that's something to know.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's something Grace has talked about too that she admires with fives is that we don't waver a lot of the time.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: Our moods are not all over the place.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we are pretty even kiltered most of the time.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: And other people's moods don't necessarily affect my mood.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, because I'm I and I say this, I think maybe I'm she's taught me to reframe, but it's my kind of like I'm not very empathetic.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: I just don't have that ability like some of the other numbers.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: And so because I can't necessarily feel how other people are feeling, it doesn't affect my mood.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm able to stay in my happy, go lucky place um, you know, for the for the time.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: Now other that's really good because it keeps you at an even keel.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: But is it sometimes hard then to gauge the feelings of the room?
19:38
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is very hard.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: I um I can't walk into a room and understand the social dynamics or understand how people are feeling, or if something happened beforehand.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, I just I can't read people very well that way.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: I am observant and I notice other things about people, but it's typically not with how they're feeling.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, my sister, who is a nine, has talked about how she, in order to do something, she has to read the room and understand how people are feeling before she acts.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, what?
20:13
SPEAKER_01: Explain this world to me.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: That sounds exhausting.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so true.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, other fives, just other ways I would describe a five.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, they are typically very knowledgeable because we do spend a lot of time doing research.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: An unhealthy five might be a know it all and try to insert the information they know all the time.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, they're usually that person that if you say something, they may look up the fact right in front of you, you know, to kind of prove you wrong.
20:49
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: A younger version of me would have done that.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: We also fives have a lot of boundaries and a lot of walls.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, we don't let people in easily.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, we are very private people, and so we keep our cards close to our chest.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, you may not, I might be friends with somebody for a long time before they found find out some very significant detail about my life uh because I just don't talk about it.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we are listeners by nature, and so we want to hear other people talk, and we'll even ask those probing questions to get the other people to talk and learn about their lives, as opposed to you know, us spilling our guts about something.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm trying to think other characteristics.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: I think that's uh so there's a curiosity there, and I've always joked because as a seven, I'm also curious, but motivated for different reasons.
21:45
SPEAKER_01: But that has made so my brother in law is one of the fives of my life, and he's a social, healthy five.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: He happens to be a chiropractor.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: And his business, I think he is so busy and it's flourished.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Because people just want to be heard.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: And so he is the perfect person that he just oftentimes his response is, mm-hmm.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh, really?
22:10
SPEAKER_01: Tell me more.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: And he just is able to have this like fine balance for someone who, yes, he might be a more social five, but who naturally wouldn't have the capacity for that many people.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: He's been able to use his superpower within his job to really accelerate, you know, his business and excel in what he's doing and come away loving it, plus inadvertently ministering to those who come to his office because again, people just want to be heard.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: Right.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: And I think I tend to do something similar with my job and working with children.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, I have kids, I teach fifth graders.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: And so no kidding.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: That's so fun.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: My mom and sister are fifth grade teachers.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: Really?
22:55
SPEAKER_01: Super fun.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: In Colorado.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: Just happen to speak.
22:58
unknown: That's so fun.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: It's a fun age.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: It is.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: It's a pivotal point in their lives.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: They're transitioning from elementary to middle school, trying to find out who they are, you know, their identity.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: And so they also just want somebody to listen to them.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: And so I often do the same thing where they'll come talk to me.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, okay, tell me more.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm listening, I'm here, you know, and I'll offer advice if they want it.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, so that's awesome.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: It's a superpower.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: It is.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: Tell me more about the idea of feelings because obviously, so when we're talking about okay, head center, and that's the five, six, and seven.
23:35
SPEAKER_01: And for those who don't know, the other two centers, it's the eight, nine, and one is the gut center, and the two, three, four are the heart center.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: Now we all have emotions, but some of us are led by our feelings a little bit more.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: And that's where the two, three, fours fit in.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: They're led by their feelings.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: And then on the flip side, and just kind of a note um the in particular, the eight and the seven, it's not that they don't have feelings, but they tend to have extreme and wear their feelings on their sleeve.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: Like usually they can't hide it very well.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: The two threes and fours, they're a little bit more covert.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: They feel the feelings in the room, they um, you know, they're not the only ones who could be empaths, but um, but that tends to fall in that category.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: So for you, as we grow in being a wholehearted person, a whole person, and we learn to engage all our intelligence centers, where what does it look like for you to engage your emotions in a way that doesn't run you dry?
24:37
SPEAKER_01: Because that's an emotional or like that's an energy drain for you.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: But that you grow, you know, just to strengthen that aspect of what you can offer others.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: That's a really good question.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: And it's something that even to this day I still struggle with.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: Um for I'm just gonna explain the way that I feel.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is great.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: So for me, when something happens unexpected or something, you know, shocking happens that's gonna have a huge impact in my feelings.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: I tend to think about it, I recognize the feeling, and then I tend to just let it go.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: Right.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: And so it can take a while before the feeling actually catches up and I have some kind of emotional reaction.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: It can, if somebody does something that could upset me, it can take me three days before I realize, oh, that upset me.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, um, I need to deal with that.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: And so actually, my boyfriend is a type four.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so he is very much in his feelings and is led by his feelings.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: So he's helped me a lot to see other people's perspectives and to help me see why people might be feeling a certain way.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, and by exercising that, it's helping me to identify my own feelings.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh, he's encouraged me when I'm feeling, you know, some some type of way.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: He's like, I need to write down what you're feeling, you know, like write about it.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's kind of his four way of dealing with things, but it's helping me to, you know, to process the information.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
26:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I have written down a list of all the feelings that I've felt and then wrote a poem about it.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: I have written letters.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I've like just journaled, and that has really, really brought me to a point where I can identify my feelings way better than I would have several years ago.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: That is so cool.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: What a what a great way to engage in that.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, that's just a great processing, but it and it also highlights the idea that so specifically a four, five, and nine would be past oriented.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: And that idea for the five in particular, the the fact it takes a little while for the feelings to catch up, that it could be something in the past that hits them now, right?
26:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, whether it's three days or three years, you know, left left to be determined based on the situation.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: But right so fascinating.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is really helpful and good to know because if you're a feeling type, especially and you're with or in relationship with a five, and you're feeling all the feelings, and you're going, Are you just being stoic?
27:15
SPEAKER_01: Are you cold?
27:17
SPEAKER_01: Are you a robot?
27:18
SPEAKER_01: Right, right, exactly, exactly.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I would love to hear maybe some of your favorite attributes that you like about yourself or about fives in general, that you're like, I'm cool with that.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: I mean, everything else is stepping on my toes, but this isn't so bad.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, I love that fives are curious by nature.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: I love that uh typically fives end up being the go-to question person.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, they're not the center of attention usually, but they are the person people will go to and be like, you know, I don't know the answer to this question, but you know who would know?
27:52
SPEAKER_00: Bethany.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: It's so true.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: Who do you want to have research for you?
27:57
SPEAKER_01: Fives.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes, wait, so it's never bothered me that I'm the go-to question person.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, when we were doing this um podcast and we are you know searching for content and what we want to write about, I'm the one doing the research.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: Um and Grace is doing like the video editing and you know, all the good stuff.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm providing all the content and it's like filling up my day and like I'm finally having an outlet for all this information that I have stored.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: So great.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: So excited to get it all out.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so I love that we're curious.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: I love that we're the go-to question person.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: Um I love that we go to eights in growth.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, because yeah, tell me about that.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: Like, because the eights get a bad rap a lot of time.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: And so some people, you know, it's always like if you're two, you go to eight and stress stress.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: Ooh, watch out.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: So give us the the high points of the eight.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I love eights and I love being around eights.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, me too.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: Fives and yeah, fives and eights um also are very good at dropping the truth bombs and they like the fact that they're both very truthful.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: Um one of my I have an eight that I've grown up with, and she is just wonderful.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so anyway, so five's good at eights and growth, and I love that it gives me the courage to say or do something uh that I normally wouldn't.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: Fives can be passive and because we are observers.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay, sometimes I just let situations play out because I'm curious of what's going to happen.
29:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and I'll admit it in my classroom too.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I let situations play out because I want kids to grow and I want them to learn how to deal with things on their own.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: And so I just kind of let it happen.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: I don't necessarily step in all the time.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: But I will say that in my classroom, I am very much in my growth area and I do become more of an eight.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: I become way more extroverted, I become way louder, way more, you know, passionate about what we're talking about.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: And I become the advocate for my students, and that's something I love.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: You have in your corner, you have an advocate, you have somebody who's going to fight for you.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: And so that's the place that I go to for my students.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's awesome.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: And I love that I go there.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: That's beautiful.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: You've painted a great picture of what it looks like because there is that element.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: And now I have one little thing, and this is this is something that maybe uh you haven't explored as much.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: But when I do my coaching and stuff, we talk about the stress and the growth lines.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: One of the things is I believe when the Holy Spirit does its work in our lives and we are, you know, engaging in things like contemplative practice and we're aware, have the self-awareness to know our behavior patterns, we can actually engage the high side as a missing piece to, you know, opposite of the low side.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: So the seven for you is a stressor.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: But what have you in your work and in your growth, what aspects of the seven have you incorporated in your life that you love to see as well?
31:04
SPEAKER_01: When you're like, oh man, I just like I did something cool there that isn't totally like me, always like me.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: Right.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: So um I yeah, I do go to a seven and in stress.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: So I do tend to adopt a chaotic, I don't care attitude if I'm stressed, which is very different from me.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I usually care a great deal.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: And so uh so when I'm at that stress point, you know, I just don't want to do anything related to that anymore.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: I want to run from it like a seven would.
31:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
31:39
SPEAKER_00: So in other ways, though, it has sometimes the seven has helped me in other stress situations.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: For example, this is one of my favorite examples.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: I was traveling with my nine friend in Italy, uh, the one that gave me gave me the or let me read her book.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, and we were in Italy, which is super fun, but Italy doesn't have the best bus transportation system.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so we were both kind of going to our stress points because we're like, we don't know where we're going, and we're in a four country and nobody speaks English.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: So yep, somewhat challenging.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: So she as a nine went to her six in stress, yeah, and she kind of became paralyzed with fear.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, I went to my seven and I was like, I'm just going to get on the bus and we're just gonna go.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: And if I hadn't gone there and been in that point, we wouldn't have gone anywhere and have seen the beautiful, amazing things in Italy and gotten to our destination or anything.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: We would just stay there and I don't know, maybe gone home.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: But we had an amazing experience because my stress point was like, we're gonna go.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: Yes, so it has propelled me forward in stressful situations before.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: Whereas most of the time I would sit there and think and have a plan.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't have a plan, so we're just gonna go.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: And that's that's so good because that is that element for a five that sometimes gets stuck in constantly planning but not acting on it.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: Right.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, that that's huge.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: That's a great story and a great illustration where it can actually serve you well.
33:17
unknown: Yes.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: It's like the opposite, you know, for eights, eights going to a five, it helps them slow down and do the research.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: And for me, as as going to the one, I also like, okay, I need to have a system to this.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: I need to go in an orderly fashion.
33:34
unknown: Right.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: I need to actually care about excellence.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: And I love that you're talking about the stress and growth points because I feel like those are things that kind of get overlooked sometimes with the Enneagram.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: And um, I think it's important that we recognize other people's stress numbers.
33:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: And so that we can identify when somebody's feeling stressed and we can help them along their journey to get back to their, you know, main number.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: So I love that you're talking about that.
34:04
SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
34:04
SPEAKER_01: I think about for threes in particular, where when you have such a go-getter and suddenly they withdraw and retreat and they suffer from you know lethargy and they're not as motivated anymore, then you know, hey, my friend's hurting and they may not be honest about it, or my spouse or my kid, and can help them kind of pull out it.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: And at the same time, celebrate when they do pause appropriately and when they do slow down in a way that's healthy and more balanced and um aren't always go, go, go.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: So um, like in both ways.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: I it's so good.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: I do.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: I love the lines of stress and growth.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: That was that was actually key for me in determining my dominant type.
34:47
SPEAKER_01: I I had a tough time.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: I missed type myself a couple of times and I had been coaching for a while.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, how is this possible?
34:56
SPEAKER_01: But it was a really stressful season, and I began to go, you know, this isn't looking like I should it should, should, should look.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: This doesn't make sense.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: And so um anyway, you know, and there there was, and then there was just so much freedom because it was cool because there was an element of good heart work that was done based on my mistypings because it was some behaviors that I had adopted over over the years and coping mechanisms and the tri-type element.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: They were learned personalities more than innate.
35:29
SPEAKER_01: And so, but now like getting under those layers actually have allowed me to see the innate personality and find greater freedom and yes, better, clearer ways of expressing what it is I need or and what it is I'm thinking.
35:44
SPEAKER_00: I've known lots of people that have mistyped.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: And they because they take on this label as this number.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, in particular, I've known a couple of people who typed as two, mistyped as twos, but were actually sixes.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's way happens often, right?
36:02
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's way better to think of yourself as the helper instead of the loyalist.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: Yes, because the loyalist seems kind of you know, they're the the worry some people, and you don't want to admit that to yourself.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: So I'll just pretend I'm the helper.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: And they take on the behaviors of the two because they want to put out that image to people, but in reality, they're worrying about it and they're six.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that happens so often.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: It's amazing to me, and they share a lot of common characteristics, they do, and even in their stance, their communication style, so it can easily blend together, but um, it is that's where I I know that there's some teachers who would say that you don't ever actually help someone determine their type, that you just let them think and let them be.
36:49
SPEAKER_01: And and there is, I actually had a client for I took that approach because they were very adamant about what personality they were.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: And I took her on as a client and we worked together for quite a while based on what she thought.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: And every conversation we would have, every coaching session, I'm thinking, oh my lands, she is not this type.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: But it was, but it was great because I allowed her to go on a journey again to uncover that initial layer.
37:17
SPEAKER_01: And then when the time was right, I was able to ask questions that got her to the right point where she was able to go, oh, actually, maybe I lead as this.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's something Grace and I have talked about a lot too, is um one of our favorite things to do is to type people we know in our minds.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: We don't tell them absolutely.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: It's so much fun.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: Right.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: We do type other people.
37:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we've talked about several people uh who we thought they were identifying as a type, and we were like, they're not that type.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: There's no way they're a type.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: And so her and I will gently, especially sevens, they're so good at like gently pushing people out of their comfort zone.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: And so she would find ways to kind of like ask these questions to help them come to this realization.
38:03
SPEAKER_00: And when they actually do, it's like they do so much more growth within like two weeks of knowing their actual numbers than the six months that they thought they were a different number.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: Totally amazing how much growth that they uh get from knowing their actual number.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: I've seen that time and time again.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: And you know, the whole like when the seven can gently help someone, they're doing good because the sevens aren't always so gentle.
38:29
unknown: That's true.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: And guiding very healthy seven.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:33
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
38:33
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, on that note, tell me about any inerts.
38:37
SPEAKER_01: You've gotten to talk about it a little here and there.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, that's one of the reasons why I wanted you on here.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: It's something that you're I know you're kind of newly launching on Instagram, but you guys have a podcast and you're some other spaces.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: So spill the beans.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: I love the name, by the way.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: Indie nerds.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: It was so perfect.
38:56
SPEAKER_00: So, like I said earlier, uh, Grace and I, we've talked about the Enneagram many, many hours times we have spent talking about it.
39:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we eventually were just like, we need to record this content because we have great conversations and we want people to hear it, we want people to grow.
39:10
SPEAKER_00: That's my biggest thing.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: I just want you to grow.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: Love it.
39:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so it went through a couple processes of like, what do we want to do?
39:18
SPEAKER_00: How you know, what do we want to talk about, how do we want people to use this?
39:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so it's been in the works for several months.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: We eventually decided that we wanted to make just a fun Enneagram podcast where we talk about ideal vacations that you know the numbers should go on, or um hobbies that they should try that's gonna help them grow, uh, or gifts you should get, you know, the certain numbers.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so just using this content as a way uh to help people, but also be super fun.
39:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I write all the content um and you know, come up with all the research.
39:52
SPEAKER_00: And she does, she has a video editing background.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so she does um the video editing, graphic design, all that good stuff.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: And so, and we just share those responsibilities right now.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: It's still very new.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, we're gonna launch in a couple of weeks.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: We recorded a few episodes.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm very excited to get it out there.
40:12
SPEAKER_00: So great.
40:12
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, Indian nerds.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: And we came up with it because we're like, we're both nerds, and we've been like idiograms bash it together.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: Idea nerds.
40:19
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've always said, like, I'm totally nerding out on the Enneagram right now.
40:24
SPEAKER_01: So oh, it's so great.
40:26
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, I am just so thrilled that you gave your time and energy to be on this podcast and get to share with others so we can learn and we can just love the fives in our lives better.
40:39
SPEAKER_01: Or maybe those about our friends who are listening who are fives can feel seen and like me too.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much, Bethany, for coming on.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for reaching out and you know, just this little tiny podcast that's just starting out.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you having me on and letting me talk about it and be a nerd with you.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
41:00
SPEAKER_01: I bet my friends are gonna come wanna come listen and check you all out.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: So, what did you think?
41:07
SPEAKER_01: I love chatting with friends who lead as a type five.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: I always learned so much from them.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: And I pray that this conversation has sparked a desire to see more growth in your life, no matter what type you are.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: If you're interested in learning insights to grow for your personality, I hope that you're gonna join us at the Wholehearted Enneagram Summit to experience the transformation that will touch all of your relationships.
41:30
SPEAKER_01: Go follow Inea Nerds and my Wholehearted Enneagram Instagram to get the information for this event.
41:37
SPEAKER_01: Now be sure you're following the podcast and leave a five-star rating on this app so you don't miss next week's conversation with one of my type six coaching clients.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: Samantha Compton has been a star student and someone who embodies a teachable spirit.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: It's been such a joy to work with her, and I've been amazed by her growth and understanding of her personality.
41:57
SPEAKER_01: She's got some amazing wisdom to share, and it's been fun to see how her passion and career have lined up with so well how the Lord wired her.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: I can't wait for you to hear her stories.
42:08
SPEAKER_01: Remember, friend, you are the mom your kids need.
42:12
SPEAKER_01: Continue to pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for the whole hearted life you desire.