Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Riley Strain, No Pants, No Wallet, No Water in Lungs: NO ACCIDENT?

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Riley Strain, No Pants, No Wallet, No Water in Lungs: NO ACCIDENT? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Scrubbed in sunshine. That is just one of the mini
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: phrases used to describe Riley Strain. So why now has
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: a second autopsy been ordered? Very disturbing facts emerge about
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: the discovery of his body. What does it mean?
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: and on serious xem one eleven a second autopsy?
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to Dave.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: Matt Crime Online.
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: The body of Riley's Strain was found submerged under a
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: log in the Cumberland River, eight miles down river from
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: where he was last seen. Strain still had on the
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: white and black shirt he was last seen wearing, but
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: his boots, pants and wallet were missing. Officials say it's
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: not uncommon for clothing to come off drowning victims in
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: the water. The initial autopsy report says no sign of
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: foul play, but the family is ordered a second private autopsy,
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: saying no water in his lungs raises questions about drowning.
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: The claim that the coroner noted a lack of water
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: in Strain's lungs has not been publicly confirmed.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: That's a problem death by drowning, but no water in
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: the victim's lungs.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: You know what, Let's don't put.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: The cart before the horse.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Let's start at the beginning to figure out what, if anything,
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: we can based on the knowledge that we are learning
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: from the autopsies.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: How did it start? Listen and why?
• 1:46
  Speaker 5: What's the exactplication of your emergency?
• 1:50
  Speaker 6: Yes, maam, I man, It's seventeen forty sixty First Avenue North,
• 1:54
  Speaker 6: Nashville's Citnessee.
• 1:57
  Speaker 5: Lord, First Avenue North in the Nations Office the.
• 2:02
  Speaker 6: City good Dam.
• 2:06
  Speaker 7: And what happened?
• 2:09
  Speaker 6: My company works on the river. I have just found
• 2:12
  Speaker 6: a dead body.
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: I believe it to be Riley.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Oh you know what, no matter how many cases you investigate,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: you prosecute, you cover, when you hear that, it stops
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: you in your tracks. After all the searching, all the prayers,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: all the maneuvers, to hear that I found a dead body.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: I believe it to be Riley. Joining me in all
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: star panel to makes sense of what we know right now.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: But first two a special guest joining us, very dear
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: family friend, family spokesperson for Riley Strain's family, Chris Dingman,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: joining us out of Springfold.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Chris thank you for being with us.
• 2:59
  Speaker 8: Thank you for having me this morning, Chris.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: I know the family is coming off a very emotional funeral,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: and that milestone, I guess is something you have to
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: go through to move to the next point. But I'd
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: like to address the evidence, the forensic evidence, to try
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: and analyze what happened to Riley, because I find it
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: very difficult to believe he fell in the water. Nobody
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: knew about it, heard about it, heard him yell nothing
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: at all, and then he turns up without his pants on,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: his boots, his wallet, all missing. I have a problem
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: with that. I've got a big problem with that. I
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: know you just heard the nine to one one call, Chris.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: How did Riley's family discover a body had been found?
• 4:06
  Speaker 9: We were the family was actually notified via a reporter
• 4:13
  Speaker 9: for the police calling us, letting us know that they
• 4:15
  Speaker 9: had found Riley, which it's not I guess it's ironic
• 4:21
  Speaker 9: that most of our information has come from the media
• 4:24
  Speaker 9: and not the police, but that's my personal opinion on this.
• 4:28
  Speaker 8: But yeah, we were notified just.
• 4:30
  Speaker 9: Literally moments before the police actually notified that it had
• 4:34
  Speaker 9: not been verified, but they were pretty sure they had
• 4:36
  Speaker 9: found rightly, which you know put the family in a
• 4:40
  Speaker 9: spin at that moment. They had been searching so hard
• 4:43
  Speaker 9: for a positive ending, but also had ultimately found the ending.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm taking in everything that you're saying, but that
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: feeling that hearing those words is something that stays with
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: you the rest of your life.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: I know, I know that.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: When I first heard.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: That my fiance was dead, I really didn't believe it.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: My mind was playing all sorts of games to Oh,
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: if I can get there, maybe there's been an accident,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: I can fix it.
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: Where is he, I'll fix it.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't until I saw my pastor writ Bernstein
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: funeral home that I realized what was happening. And then
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: it took me a really long time to take it in.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Who answered that phone call his mom or dad.
• 5:36
  Speaker 9: Actually it was a joint call to the family. His
• 5:39
  Speaker 9: stepdad and mom was at the house. Ryan, his dad
• 5:42
  Speaker 9: was already out, had just left the house. I think
• 5:45
  Speaker 9: to go towards the boat to get on it to search,
• 5:48
  Speaker 9: and I was leaving the house and we noticed that
• 5:52
  Speaker 9: they'd gotten an important phone call because they got quiet,
• 5:55
  Speaker 9: but we had to go chase down some leads.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Oh, I hate that failing Chris Chris.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: I hate that family when there's buzz going on, all
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: of a sudden, somebody's on the phone and everything gets
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: quiet and you're like, what is it?
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: So it was the mom and who else on the phone?
• 6:09
  Speaker 8: His stepdad, Chris the other Chris? Yes.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: So did his mother expect this or was she completely
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: floored when she got the news?
• 6:19
  Speaker 9: Michelle, At one point we did have a family conversation
• 6:24
  Speaker 9: of the bad outcome that could happen. She was prepared,
• 6:30
  Speaker 9: but only as you can prepare a mother that's missing
• 6:32
  Speaker 9: her cub. You know, she knew that with the days
• 6:36
  Speaker 9: that went by and the lack of evidence and the
• 6:39
  Speaker 9: lack of stuff that was being generated at you know,
• 6:42
  Speaker 9: in Nashville itself by the police department, that it may
• 6:45
  Speaker 9: not have a happy album, you know, outcome.
• 6:49
  Speaker 8: But she never gave up hope to find her her son.
• 6:54
  Speaker 10: We never gave up trying, and we were blessed with
• 6:57
  Speaker 10: the media getting Riley's store out, generating the leads that
• 7:01
  Speaker 10: we needed because at that point, literally the media, the
• 7:05
  Speaker 10: social networks is the only leads that we had been
• 7:08
  Speaker 10: given period as to what had happened to Riley.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Guys, again, thank you for being with us. As this
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: family mourns the death of Riley, I want answers. So
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: far we keep hearing that his death quote continues to
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: appear accidental.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: But you know, I don't get it. I don't get it.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Ben Powers joining me, high profile lawyer joining us out
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: of this jurisdiction at legalpowers dot com.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Ben, thank you for being with us.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Why would they say it quote continues to appear accidental?
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: When hit what?
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: He accidentally threw his pants, his shoes, and his wallet
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: and jumped in the water, fell in the water.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: That doesn't make any sense. Why are they saying that.
• 7:58
  Speaker 11: Well, so when it comes to the medical examiner, that
• 8:00
  Speaker 11: type of determination, what they're looking for is clear signs
• 8:03
  Speaker 11: of trauma, you know, a gunshot wound, a clear stab wound,
• 8:06
  Speaker 11: something like that. And a medical examiner's determination no signs
• 8:10
  Speaker 11: of foul play or no signs of trauma consistent with
• 8:13
  Speaker 11: foul play is a determination that's not static.
• 8:16
  Speaker 8: It's fluid.
• 8:17
  Speaker 11: So if new information is developed, new information comes forward,
• 8:21
  Speaker 11: witnesses come forward with whatever they may know, that can
• 8:24
  Speaker 11: definitely change the determination that the medical examiner makes. But
• 8:29
  Speaker 11: right now, I don't put a whole lot of stock
• 8:31
  Speaker 11: in the no foul play trauma determination because someone pushing
• 8:36
  Speaker 11: Riley in, throwing Riley in, punching Raleigh and tossing him
• 8:40
  Speaker 11: in that way, or just pushing him down the embankment
• 8:43
  Speaker 11: is going to look exactly identical to him falling in.
• 8:47
  Speaker 11: It's indistinguishable the type of injuries.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: You have menpowers.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: I hate everything that you just said, and I'm going
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: to tell you why, but I need backup joining me
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: right now. Profile medical high profile death investigator, Professor Forensicks,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: What else can I say?
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Let's see and star of a hit series Body Bags
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: with Joe Scott Morgan.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: Joe Scott, Now, I know you're used.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: To getting in front of jury's and giving a very
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: lengthy explanation of coed cause of death, but I have
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: one question, and it's a yes no Joe Scott, yes
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: or no. Okay, here's the question. Isn't it true the
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: death investigators and medical examiners take into account before they
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: reach their determination, not only the physical evidence that you
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: get from the body, but extrinsic evidence as well, such
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: as I had an arson case. Okay, was it an accident?
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Did this wife really die in a fire? Well, I
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: looked at extrinsic evidence, including the fact that her husband
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: took all of his suits, all of his shoes, all
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: of his ties to a dry cleaner, multiple dry cleaners
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: in the area in the days before the fire, called
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: the weather station and I had him on tape finding
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: out if it would rain that day the day of
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: the fire, and also calling his insurance company to find
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: out what they pay for furniture replacement. And then bam,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: his mansion caught on fire and his wife died. That's
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: extrinsic evidence, not to mention rating his place of business
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: and finding bags and bags trash bags, black plastic trash
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: bags as I recall, full of things from the homes,
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: such as his own family photos, not her, but his family,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: his mom, his grandma.
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  Speaker 3: Blah blah blah. That's extrinsic evidence.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: So my question to you is, isn't it true the
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: medical examiner can take into account extrinsic evidence.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: When determining whether there's been foul play.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, can't believe it. He did it, Jackie. He actually
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: said it.
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: In one word.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, so Ben Powers.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: The extrinsic evidence I'm talking about would be the fact
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: that he doesn't have on pants.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: How's that an accident?
• 11:30
  Speaker 8: No, and I agree.
• 11:32
  Speaker 11: I think that the fact that he doesn't have on
• 11:34
  Speaker 11: pants but still has on his boxers is definitely something
• 11:37
  Speaker 11: of concern because if they're trying to say that the
• 11:39
  Speaker 11: river current took his pants off, you're telling me that
• 11:43
  Speaker 11: something that's indiscriminate in tearing his pants from his body
• 11:48
  Speaker 11: is delicate enough to leave his undergarments. That just doesn't
• 11:51
  Speaker 11: make any sense. And then when you factor that in
• 11:53
  Speaker 11: with the debit card found on the riverbank, it just
• 11:57
  Speaker 11: continues to make so many irregularities of this you have
• 12:00
  Speaker 11: to acknowledge this doesn't add up. The math doesn't math
• 12:05
  Speaker 11: because you've got the debit card on the riverbank, the
• 12:07
  Speaker 11: pants are missing, but the boxer you're still present.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Hold on before I lose the thought, before I lose
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: the thought empowers I'm going to follow up with Joe
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Scott Morgan about the pants missing. But as you've pointed
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: out twice, and I'm glad you did, because it sparked
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: a thought.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: If the current had.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Somehow dragged his pants off, why not the boxers too?
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: If the current was that strong.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know that I've ever seen a drowning case
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: where it literally pulled your clothes off.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: Hold on just one moment.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: I want to go to Dryden quickly joining US investigative
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: reporter WSMV four. But first let's get some more knowledge
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: before we reach a conclusion.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to more of the nine to one
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: one call.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: What else do we learn about the discovery of Riley's body?
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: Listen, and you said, you guys the time that dead body, yes,
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: ma'am in the river.
• 13:04
  Speaker 6: M well, no barges at this facility. I was checking
• 13:11
  Speaker 6: around the dock. Uh, it's definitely got a person hair,
• 13:15
  Speaker 6: black shirt, kind of like a white muddy looking on
• 13:19
  Speaker 6: the front. It's face down in the water, yes, ma'am,
• 13:24
  Speaker 6: it's occasion.
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: It looks like a mail.
• 13:28
  Speaker 6: Yes, ma'am.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: I want to hear more of that, not on one call,
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: because I'm learning a lot of facts.
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: Listen, well, is he completely submerged or is he right
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: on that like the sub bed, not the bed, but like,
• 13:39
  Speaker 5: is he partially in the water, partially out of the water.
• 13:42
  Speaker 6: No, he's fully submoted. Be sizes his back sticking out
• 13:47
  Speaker 6: of the water. I actually had to move a log
• 13:50
  Speaker 6: off of it, off of the head. To compariment was
• 13:52
  Speaker 6: a body.
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: Okay, I have this call up and I'm gonna get
• 13:59
  Speaker 5: somebody out there. Okay, all right, I'll meet them up.
• 14:03
  Speaker 6: I'm gonna make my way up from the river and
• 14:05
  Speaker 6: here in just a few minutes.
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: Okay, all right, I'll let you go. Thank you.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: I'm very intrigued, and I want to know if everybody
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: else has noticed this as well.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Let me just throw it out into Joe Scott Morgan.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: This has nothing to do with the body, but you
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: and I listen to a lot of ninemal one calls.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Is I'm sure you have two been powers in court?
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Why do the ninm on one dispatchers always like, what huh,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: it's a dead body.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: They're like, not even worried.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Does anybody notice that beside me?
• 14:34
  Speaker 7: No? I mean when when you hear her responses Nancy,
• 14:38
  Speaker 7: you have to understand she's got other calls that have
• 14:40
  Speaker 7: been coming in. All right, this this is not separated
• 14:43
  Speaker 7: from her. She has to survive in the environment that
• 14:46
  Speaker 7: she is, and she has to remain.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Oh please other calls.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Oh there's a fire hydrant running on main street.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Ooh, I see a car accident.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: They look like they've heard their neck. Okay, you know
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: what that that's what you've got for me.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: She's taking.
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: Invested.
• 15:05
  Speaker 7: I know, she seems like the domestic violence calls, those
• 15:09
  Speaker 7: sorts of things, maybe armed robberies, we're talking about anything.
• 15:13
  Speaker 7: National is a big town, Nancy, and so she has
• 15:16
  Speaker 7: to deal with a lot of things. She cannot have
• 15:18
  Speaker 7: her voice going up and down in these sorts of things.
• 15:21
  Speaker 7: She has to maintain calm during the midst of this.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, you can call it calm.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Some people might call it disinterested, but I'm going to
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: go with what you said. Nashville is the big town.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of crime. So she is not my
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: concern right now too. Dryden quickly joining us investigative reporter
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: WSMV for dry and tell me, first of all, thank
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: you for being with us. Tell me about the discovery
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: of Riley's body, because it's not adding up for me.
• 15:45
  Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean, it was the second call of the
• 15:47
  Speaker 12: dead body we got that week. So at first I
• 15:49
  Speaker 12: think a lot of us were like, is it going
• 15:51
  Speaker 12: to be him? Is it not going to him? So
• 15:52
  Speaker 12: when we got this call that they found a body
• 15:54
  Speaker 12: in the river, a lot of us rushed out there,
• 15:56
  Speaker 12: you know, to see what was going on if it
• 15:57
  Speaker 12: would be identified as him, which unfortunately.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: When you rushed out there, Dryden, what did you say?
• 16:04
  Speaker 12: So, I myself wasn't on the scene. We had sent
• 16:06
  Speaker 12: another reporter there first, but I know that when he
• 16:09
  Speaker 12: got there, there were a ton of police officers there.
• 16:11
  Speaker 12: They weren't able to go exactly towards the water, but
• 16:14
  Speaker 12: you know, they had a lot of officers. I think
• 16:16
  Speaker 12: the feeling was that, you know, it was going to
• 16:18
  Speaker 12: be Riley this time.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know how Riley's mom, Michelle even had the
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: strength to stand up in front of microphones and speak
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: to the public as articulately.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: As she did.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Bringing home.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Not only has she lost her son, but now that
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: he's been found, so many questions. You know what, let's
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: hear part of that nine one, one one more time.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: There's something very significant there. I want to analyze.
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: Well, if he completely submergeder is he right on that
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: like that's the bed, not the bed, but like if
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: he partially in the water, partially out of the.
• 17:01
  Speaker 6: Water, No, he's fully smoted, be sizes his back sticking
• 17:07
  Speaker 6: out of the water. I actually had to move a
• 17:09
  Speaker 6: log off of it, off of the head to comperiment
• 17:12
  Speaker 6: was a body.
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: Okay, I have this call up and I'm gonna get
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: somebody out there. Okay, all right, I'll meet them up.
• 17:23
  Speaker 7: Cup.
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: I'm gonna make my way up from the river here
• 17:25
  Speaker 6: in just.
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: A few minutes.
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: Okay, all right, I'll.
• 17:27
  Speaker 6: Let you go, all right, thank you.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Chris Dingman is with us a very dear family friend
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: and spokesperson for Riley Strain's family. They have a GoFundMe
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: aunt Riley Strain. Chris, the details that we're hearing that
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: his head was lodged under a log, that his boots,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: wallet pants missing, but especially hearing on the nine on
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: one call that his head was lodged under a log.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Are those facts that the mom Shelle knows, is she
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: It would break my heart to hear those facts. I
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: don't know that she's ready to hear that.
• 18:09
  Speaker 9: We actually, as a collective group in Riley's war room,
• 18:13
  Speaker 9: kept a lot of stuff from Michelle, just because as
• 18:16
  Speaker 9: you deal on a daily basis, and a lot of
• 18:17
  Speaker 9: people on the panel today, it's a dark world out
• 18:20
  Speaker 9: there and people like to do cruel things.
• 18:22
  Speaker 8: So I am unaware of at this moment.
• 18:25
  Speaker 9: I don't think Michelle knew the graphic nature of how
• 18:28
  Speaker 9: Riley was found, the war room, the dad's uncles, etc.
• 18:33
  Speaker 8: Yes, we were quite aware of it.
• 18:35
  Speaker 9: And the wild part is Brian Riley's dad actually was
• 18:40
  Speaker 9: at that location and they pained it that night at
• 18:44
  Speaker 9: like eleven or twelve o'clock that night in the boat
• 18:46
  Speaker 9: as a possible location to search with the dogs.
• 18:50
  Speaker 8: I do know that too.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Karen Start joining us now high profile TV radio trauma
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: expert and consultant at karenstart dot com. If you're looking
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: for her, that's Karen Worth the Sea. Karen, thank you
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: for being with us. It's bad enough when the one
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: you love you lose them they die, But then you
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: find out about a traumatic death, and as you and
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: I have discussed many times about Keith, you think, oh,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: did they feel what happened? Did they know what was
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: happening to them? My point is did they suffer? What
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: was that like? And then you find out it could
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: have been wrongdoing on someone else's part, such as a murder.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: It's overwhelming. I don't know how you know, Karen. I
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: thought I knew it all and my fiance was killed,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: But now that I have the twins don't.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I can't even.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: Imagine what Michelle is going through.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: And now this and the confusion about what really happened
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: to Riley.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'd rather know.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Look, he was rolled by some homeless people, we don't
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: know who yet, but his pant didn't.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: Just float off in the water. That's not what happened.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: And I don't believe they, or the war or other
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: items have been recovered yet, which you would think naturally they.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: Would follow the current where the body.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Went, right, Well they haven't, So where are they what happened?
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: So without knowing the truth, you're kind of left and
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: some horrible purgatory, some limbo where you don't know what
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: happened to them.
• 20:42
  Speaker 13: Nancy, if you think about what happened with you with Keith, right,
• 20:45
  Speaker 13: the more details that you're able to have, even though
• 20:49
  Speaker 13: it's terrific, it's just you want to know. You want
• 20:52
  Speaker 13: to know exactly what happened, because your imagination just keeps going.
• 20:58
  Speaker 13: It's not like you could let it go. This is traumatic.
• 21:01
  Speaker 13: Your child is dead before you. It's not the way
• 21:04
  Speaker 13: it's supposed to go in the world. And so here
• 21:07
  Speaker 13: you are with this situation and you're told that his
• 21:11
  Speaker 13: pants are off. Well, they say that you can take
• 21:14
  Speaker 13: pants off if you're in the water. He couldn't do
• 21:17
  Speaker 13: it himself. His boots were off. They found the cards.
• 21:20
  Speaker 13: So the more details that are confusion that he died
• 21:25
  Speaker 13: by drowning. But no, maybe not. The harder it is
• 21:29
  Speaker 13: and they need to have the beginning. Look, they will
• 21:32
  Speaker 13: never heal from this, you know that more than anyone.
• 21:35
  Speaker 13: But the beginning of some kind of process to make
• 21:40
  Speaker 13: them be able to live with this. They're not having
• 21:42
  Speaker 13: that right now.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Joining me an all star panel, But first I want
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: to go to Joe Scott Morgan, professor forensic Jacksonville State
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: University and death investigator. He has investigated over one thousand deaths. Joscott, again,
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. This is a lot
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: of information to digest it. I want to hear your analysis,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: especially about no water being in the lungs in a
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: drowning case.
• 22:13
  Speaker 7: Listen, You're not always going to find water in the lungs, Nancy.
• 22:18
  Speaker 7: In a drowning, you can have what's referred to as
• 22:20
  Speaker 7: a dry drowning. Many times this is where you have
• 22:25
  Speaker 7: actually a spasm that occurs in the organs of the
• 22:28
  Speaker 7: throat and you can prevent water from getting in. But
• 22:31
  Speaker 7: here's the problem with this. There's other locations you look
• 22:34
  Speaker 7: to see if there are in fact evidences of drowning
• 22:38
  Speaker 7: with a body. And the biggest problem I have with this, Nancy,
• 22:43
  Speaker 7: is that they have not had sufficient amount of time
• 22:46
  Speaker 7: to do all of the testing, including toxicology that they
• 22:50
  Speaker 7: need to come back to. This is an incomplete investigation.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: As far as i'm everything you're saying is extremely valuable.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to write as fast as I can. Okay,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: dry drowning. You want me to accept that.
• 23:09
  Speaker 7: You know whether or not you want to accept it
• 23:11
  Speaker 7: or not. It's the reality is is that it does occur.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: So you can have Oh often have you seen it happen?
• 23:18
  Speaker 7: I'd say probably at least a dozen times of the
• 23:20
  Speaker 7: course of my career. Worked a long time in New Orland.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: What were the circumstances.
• 23:25
  Speaker 7: You have individuals that go into the water, particularly in
• 23:28
  Speaker 7: an inebriated state. This can particularly happen sometimes, and you
• 23:33
  Speaker 7: can have individuals that have sustained trauma where this occurs
• 23:39
  Speaker 7: as well, and generally there's going to be some kind
• 23:41
  Speaker 7: of neurological compromise.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: I don't know what that means neurological compromise.
• 23:46
  Speaker 7: Well, that means that they have sustained head trauma perhaps, but.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: He he didn't. How do we know because it wasn't reported,
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: and that it wasn't.
• 23:53
  Speaker 7: Reported, all right, yeah, well yeah, I haven't reported toxicology
• 23:58
  Speaker 7: yet either. I think that it's very important.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: The apples oranges.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: See Scott, I know your your game really well when
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: you throw things on me like neurological What did you say, neurological?
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: What compromise?
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: Is that what you said?
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Neurological compromise?
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, you're throwing words at me as a medical examiner,
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: as a death investigator that a lawyer wouldn't necessarily know
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: what that meant. But guess what I do know what
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: that means for once. So let me just say then,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: you said, when I said, well, there was no report
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: of a blood of the head or any contusion, any hemorrhage,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: bruising to the head, you went, oh, well, there's not
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: toxicology either, apples oranges. Because you can look at the
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: body and see if there's a blood to the head.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Easy.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: You can't look at the body and know about toxicology.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: You have to wait until the as blood tests or
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: tissue tests come back. So if they're telling, if they're
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: not noting in the autopsy there's a blow to the
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: head and there's not a blow to the head, that's
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: not something you have to wait.
• 25:12
  Speaker 7: On, right, You're absolutely right. And so I think that
• 25:15
  Speaker 7: other things that they need to be digging into here, Nancy,
• 25:19
  Speaker 7: are something that we look for in drowning, which are
• 25:22
  Speaker 7: referred to as diatone testing, which are these little algae
• 25:26
  Speaker 7: creatures that exist in water that has not been released.
• 25:31
  Speaker 7: As well, I don't know if they're doing diatom testing.
• 25:35
  Speaker 7: There also any kind of barow trauma, and what we
• 25:37
  Speaker 7: look for is water in the inner ear. Many times
• 25:40
  Speaker 7: this happens when bodies have been, say, submerged a great depth.
• 25:45
  Speaker 7: And yeah, we get water in our ears when we swim. However,
• 25:48
  Speaker 7: this is something this is deep within the ear, and
• 25:51
  Speaker 7: many times this happens as a result of force pressure.
• 25:55
  Speaker 7: I'm interested to try to understand why in the hell
• 25:59
  Speaker 7: they have release this information so prematurely when they don't
• 26:03
  Speaker 7: have a complete investigation done at this point in time.
• 26:07
  Speaker 7: I'm still waiting.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to decipher everything you said.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Dry drowning, and you said that you, Jo just got
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Morgan have encountered dry drowning about twelve times.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: Isn't that what you said?
• 26:24
  Speaker 7: That's correct?
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: Do you think it's twelve or could it have been less?
• 26:26
  Speaker 7: No, I'd say it's probably around twelve.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, around twelve, Okay, And Joe Gott Morgan, how many
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: death investigations have you conducted?
• 26:36
  Speaker 7: I don't know, Nancy, probably upwards of I don't know,
• 26:40
  Speaker 7: four thousand. I would imagine, so.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Four thousand around, just like around twelve. Now it's around
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: four thousand. So out of four thousand death investigations, you've
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: had around twelve dry drownings.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: Is that correct?
• 26:59
  Speaker 9: Correct?
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: In those cases?
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Did you say that often you found a neurological compromise,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: plain language, regular people taught blood of the head.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: It does occur, yes, did it occur in those twelve
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: To the.
• 27:11
  Speaker 7: Best of my recollection, every single time they were compromised
• 27:14
  Speaker 7: in some way, either from a head strike or from
• 27:17
  Speaker 7: being inebriated.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Somebody I know is going into cross examination mode, and
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: that would be you. Because when somebody throws out, to
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: the best of my recollection, that means I may be
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: right or I may be wrong, but I'm going to
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Cya by saying to the best one, I see you
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: smiling too, I see you. But that said, you're telling me,
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: out of four thousand cases, you've had about twelve dry drownings,
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: and in those twelve dry drownings they had, as you say,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: neurological compromise, I e.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: Blood of the head. Yes, no, yes, Okay, got it.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: So in this case says we don't know about a
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: blood of the head that differentiates itself from all of
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: you your dry drownings.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: Okay, now that.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: We have ferreted that out, Joe Scott, please just tell
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: me what you think in regular people talk. No neurological compromise,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: no blow to the head, extrinsic evidence. He doesn't have
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: his pants on. Boots would have just dragged him down
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: to the bottom. His debit card is up near that
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: homeless camp. It's wallet's gone.
• 28:31
  Speaker 7: I don't I don't understand.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 28:33
  Speaker 7: I don't understand what dragging him down to the bottom
• 28:36
  Speaker 7: has to do with the condition which his body was
• 28:38
  Speaker 7: found and where he was found. It is possible for
• 28:41
  Speaker 7: boots to come off. I have a real problem with
• 28:43
  Speaker 7: pants coming off, though I also don't know if his
• 28:45
  Speaker 7: pants were belted as well. That has not been addressed
• 28:49
  Speaker 7: at all. And here's another thing. This clothes would have
• 28:53
  Speaker 7: had to have come off early on Nancy because as
• 28:56
  Speaker 7: the body is in this in the Cumberland for this
• 28:59
  Speaker 7: protracted period time, I think we're looking at what a
• 29:01
  Speaker 7: two week period. Forgive me for saying this, but the
• 29:04
  Speaker 7: body will become bloated during that potential particularly bit of time.
• 29:08
  Speaker 7: That means that with the bloating comes tension, and so
• 29:12
  Speaker 7: the body begins to swell. So the probability of the
• 29:15
  Speaker 7: pants coming off as he's been in there for a
• 29:17
  Speaker 7: protracted period of time would not have happened at the
• 29:21
  Speaker 7: end or prior to the discovery. It would have had
• 29:23
  Speaker 7: to have happened prior to all right, So I think
• 29:27
  Speaker 7: that that's something else that needs to be factored in
• 29:29
  Speaker 7: as well.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, that is the Joe Scott Morgan you're hearing right there.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: That is the renow.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Professor at Jacksonville State University and the author of Blood
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Beneath My Feet and the Star of Body Bags. With
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan, everything you just said is brilliant. I
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: didn't even take notes because I wanted to drink it
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: in what you just said. The one thing I did
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: manage to write down two words. I don't want to
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: miss anything, And what you just said is critical.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: Were those pants built.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Prime stories with Nancy Grace?
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: The suggestion that this young man died of a dry
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: drowning doesn't make any sense compared with the extrinsic evidence
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: that we have learned to Dryden quickly joining us WSMV four.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: They're in Tennessee. Explain to me where the.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: Body was found in relation to all the other points
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: of antes, specifically that homeless encampment.
• 30:50
  Speaker 12: Yeah, so that's right where he went into the water.
• 30:52
  Speaker 12: So you're walking along this kind of the road on
• 30:55
  Speaker 12: your right side is going to be this steep, steep
• 30:59
  Speaker 12: slope into the river. There's no way that he was
• 31:01
  Speaker 12: walking down towards that river, but there are some homeless camps,
• 31:06
  Speaker 12: you know, kind of perched along it. But it's very
• 31:08
  Speaker 12: wooded down there. So if he would have had to
• 31:11
  Speaker 12: fall or yes, been pushed over kind of the edge
• 31:14
  Speaker 12: into that water. And then his body was found a
• 31:16
  Speaker 12: few miles down the river from from where he supposedly
• 31:20
  Speaker 12: went in or where he was last set on camera.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Chris Dingman joining us.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: The family spokesperson, Very dear friend of Riley's family, Chris,
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: what does all of this mean to you and the family.
• 31:33
  Speaker 9: It's once again we have way more questions and answers.
• 31:36
  Speaker 9: And to answer one of the panelists, I did confer
• 31:40
  Speaker 9: with the family last night. Much like my son is
• 31:42
  Speaker 9: the same height as Riley, and you've seen the pictures
• 31:44
  Speaker 9: of him. The boys wear belts because they have swimmers'
• 31:49
  Speaker 9: bodies in essence, and you know, there's very very very
• 31:52
  Speaker 9: good chance Riley did have a belt on that evening
• 31:55
  Speaker 9: where the location.
• 31:56
  Speaker 13: That went in.
• 31:57
  Speaker 9: I'll be honest with you, I'm a very avid outdoors guy,
• 32:00
  Speaker 9: and it's extreme terrain at the homeless camp area, let
• 32:04
  Speaker 9: alone the sheer drop off area where the credit card
• 32:07
  Speaker 9: was found in the debit card. More confusing questions from
• 32:12
  Speaker 9: the police officer's body cam. If you timestamp it to
• 32:15
  Speaker 9: where the detention center picks back up where Riley is
• 32:18
  Speaker 9: no longer seen in any videos, there's numerous, numerous people,
• 32:22
  Speaker 9: a little computer. They're also walking. That's in that time
• 32:27
  Speaker 9: era that you know, somebody it wasn't like it was
• 32:31
  Speaker 9: a you know, three o'clock in the morning. Everybody went home.
• 32:34
  Speaker 9: There are people cars driving by. We even had one
• 32:38
  Speaker 9: of the gentlemen say I saw two teslas setting in
• 32:41
  Speaker 9: the police cam foot eage for the body cam.
• 32:43
  Speaker 8: Now they run video twenty four to seven.
• 32:46
  Speaker 9: I still personally think that somebody knows something, you know,
• 32:50
  Speaker 9: whether it was a homeless person or person visiting from
• 32:52
  Speaker 9: out of town who. I think there was too many
• 32:56
  Speaker 9: people that was in that area for it just go unnoticed.
• 33:01
  Speaker 9: That's my personal opinion.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Agree just Scott Morgan, why was it so significant to
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: you to find out whether Riley was wearing a belt?
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: And now that we believe we have the answer from
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Chris Dingman that he was. What, if anything, does that
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: mean to you, Joe Scott?
• 33:17
  Speaker 7: It means, Nancy that it would be much more it's
• 33:20
  Speaker 7: more plausible. I think our potential. The potential exists. As
• 33:24
  Speaker 7: doctor Bass has said, I think previously that the pants
• 33:28
  Speaker 7: may have come off. They could, but if they were belted,
• 33:32
  Speaker 7: it would be a much tougher hill to climb that
• 33:34
  Speaker 7: the water would just simply pull them off. Because as
• 33:38
  Speaker 7: was mentioned, this young gentleman is tall and slender. Those
• 33:41
  Speaker 7: pants are not going to stay up. He has to
• 33:44
  Speaker 7: have them belted. And again, when you combine all of
• 33:47
  Speaker 7: these things. I worked a lot of cases, Nancy, where
• 33:49
  Speaker 7: people's shoes do in fact come off in the water.
• 33:51
  Speaker 7: The current generally facilitates that, but when you have pants
• 33:55
  Speaker 7: that come off, that's a completely different animal at that
• 33:58
  Speaker 7: point in time. That's what you know. Leaves me with
• 34:02
  Speaker 7: more questions and answers here.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Dry drowning is also known as Lorenzo spasm. As Joe
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Scott was saying earlier, how your larynx will spasm. But
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: would that spasm last long enough if it unspasmed? Would
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: he ingest water? And if you drown? I thought, the
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: reason you drown is because your lungs are.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: Full of water.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: So how can you drown without your lungs being full
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: of water?
• 34:41
  Speaker 7: You can drown without the water present in your lungs.
• 34:45
  Speaker 7: Because if you'll just think about, which we cover a
• 34:47
  Speaker 7: lot of these cases, Nancy, is fhixial desks, You're essentially
• 34:50
  Speaker 7: depriving your brain of oxygen, and so that's going to
• 34:53
  Speaker 7: be compromised. If he has any substances on board, that's
• 34:56
  Speaker 7: also going to be another compromising position. But as I'd
• 35:00
  Speaker 7: mentioned just a moment ago, and I think that this
• 35:02
  Speaker 7: is important for them to explore. He would still take
• 35:05
  Speaker 7: on enough water if it could get into the peripheral
• 35:08
  Speaker 7: system that means out into his organs, into his bloodstream,
• 35:12
  Speaker 7: and even in yes to his bone marrow. Where you're
• 35:15
  Speaker 7: searching for diatoms. We take samples of of these areas
• 35:20
  Speaker 7: of the body and you do an ascid what's referred
• 35:22
  Speaker 7: to as an acid test on these areas, and you
• 35:25
  Speaker 7: look for these little creatures that only exist in water
• 35:28
  Speaker 7: born environments and they kind of spread out. We do
• 35:31
  Speaker 7: this in drowning cases with great frequency, and so I'd
• 35:36
  Speaker 7: be curious if they took the time to do that.
• 35:39
  Speaker 7: And that's only something that happens in the anti mortem state, Nancy.
• 35:43
  Speaker 7: That means it doesn't happen postmortem. You have to take
• 35:45
  Speaker 7: these on and they have to be shutted off into
• 35:48
  Speaker 7: the peripheral system at that point in time. So I'm
• 35:51
  Speaker 7: still waiting on that, just like we're waiting on tac cology.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: Chris Dingman, you inferred that people have been embedded into
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: the homeless community to get information.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: Did they get any information.
• 36:04
  Speaker 9: We've got a lot of information that we're still processing through.
• 36:07
  Speaker 8: Unfortunately, when all this.
• 36:08
  Speaker 9: Went down and due to the media impact in that area,
• 36:11
  Speaker 9: the homeless, scattered. Ninety percent of them do not want
• 36:15
  Speaker 9: to be in the lime light or talk to people, etc.
• 36:18
  Speaker 8: We do have personally.
• 36:20
  Speaker 9: I don't think Metro Nashville is following up on it,
• 36:23
  Speaker 9: but we do have personally some people that we are
• 36:25
  Speaker 9: still trying to track down another camps just for information
• 36:29
  Speaker 9: if this truly was an accident. You know, Michelle has
• 36:33
  Speaker 9: her son home and they're going to get to have
• 36:35
  Speaker 9: a proper burreal which was big, big for me on
• 36:38
  Speaker 9: the side of the family.
• 36:39
  Speaker 8: I did not want to.
• 36:39
  Speaker 9: Have to bring Michelle home without her son, good or bad.
• 36:44
  Speaker 9: But Michelle does have that. But now now we're able
• 36:46
  Speaker 9: to actually dig into some of the stuff that we
• 36:48
  Speaker 9: have questions on. The priority was getting Michelle, her son
• 36:52
  Speaker 9: and Ryan and Chris to get them home back in
• 36:56
  Speaker 9: a controlled environment with love, friends and family and everybody.
• 37:00
  Speaker 9: But now the dad's in the war room. We need
• 37:02
  Speaker 9: some answers. You know, We've got questions. Just like on
• 37:05
  Speaker 9: the panel today, We've given each other information and we
• 37:08
  Speaker 9: thought we had an angle, and all of a sudden,
• 37:10
  Speaker 9: now we have one hundred more angles. But no, there's
• 37:13
  Speaker 9: people of interest that we personally are trying to reach
• 37:17
  Speaker 9: out to, not because we think there was mal content
• 37:20
  Speaker 9: in it. But somebody, you know, somebody knows something. There's
• 37:25
  Speaker 9: just too many people.
• 37:26
  Speaker 8: In that area.
• 37:27
  Speaker 9: One of the theories was that right maybe Riley had
• 37:30
  Speaker 9: went around the corner to try to relieve himself. The
• 37:33
  Speaker 9: young lady from Nashville doing reporting with us in the group,
• 37:36
  Speaker 9: she can verify that terrain is extreme terrain right there
• 37:39
  Speaker 9: in Riley. Of all my boys, even though he's not mine,
• 37:42
  Speaker 9: all my boys, he was the modest one, you know.
• 37:45
  Speaker 9: He was not a go out in public kind of guy,
• 37:48
  Speaker 9: like we were raised on the country. So that was
• 37:50
  Speaker 9: nothing that ever crossed my mind. And also one more question.
• 37:55
  Speaker 9: Everybody's talking about the boots. I have to let everybody
• 37:58
  Speaker 9: know those are a size fifteen and if you've ever
• 38:02
  Speaker 9: had wet boots on our wet shoes, they're extremely tough
• 38:04
  Speaker 9: to get off. That young man had a size fifteen
• 38:07
  Speaker 9: shoot on, so boot on. So a lot of questions
• 38:11
  Speaker 9: we're trying to get answers. Unfortunately, we can do that
• 38:14
  Speaker 9: at this moment because Riley is home.
• 38:16
  Speaker 8: But we need the help. We need the help of
• 38:18
  Speaker 8: the public.
• 38:19
  Speaker 9: That seems to be where we've gotten our answers as
• 38:21
  Speaker 9: a family and I think there's still more answers out there.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: A dry drowning, no water in his lungs, with no
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: blow to the head.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: When does that ever happen?
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: Practically never what happened to.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Riley strain to you been Powers, high profile lawyer in
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: that jurisdic your way in.
• 38:45
  Speaker 11: So for me, the thing that stands out is the
• 38:47
  Speaker 11: commonality of the things they're missing. The boots, the pants,
• 38:51
  Speaker 11: and the debit card that's discarded. Those are all things
• 38:54
  Speaker 11: that are valuable to the encampment where he went missing.
• 38:57
  Speaker 11: The debit card may have been discarded because you have
• 39:00
  Speaker 11: to go use it, and to use it, you have
• 39:02
  Speaker 11: to go be on camera using it, and so it's
• 39:04
  Speaker 11: too much risk. Potentially, it doesn't have intrinsic value like
• 39:07
  Speaker 11: the pants and the boots that are missing. I think that,
• 39:10
  Speaker 11: in combination with all the other evidence we've discussed, certainly
• 39:14
  Speaker 11: raises a lot of questions that we don't have answers
• 39:16
  Speaker 11: to today.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: You're right, Ben Powers, those boots have not been found,
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: and i'd like to know whether anybody's wearing those boots
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: as we're talking right now to Karen Stark's psychologist, Karen.
• 39:28
  Speaker 13: I'll tell you Nancy, they will never get over this.
• 39:31
  Speaker 13: You know that she's talking about holding babies close. But
• 39:34
  Speaker 13: the more answers that they have the veteran is for
• 39:38
  Speaker 13: the family, despite the grief.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything regarding the
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: death of this son, this beloved son, Riley's train plays
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: Dowl six one five eight, six y two eighty six hundred.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: But right now, let's pause to remember American Hero Officer
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: Jonah Hernandez, just thirty five years old Los Cruces, New Mexico.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Loved helping those in need. Life long dream of becoming
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: an officer. Leaves behind wife Yasinia and two beautiful young sons.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Jonah Hernandez, American Hero. Thanks to our guests, but especially
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: to you for being with us.
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: Goodbye friend,