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My Interview with Gaetan Charland · Urantia Radio

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Thank you for joining me on yet another edition of the ranch
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Radio podcast, where we talk about the fifth epochal,
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revelation of spiritual truth. And if you want to get a sense
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of the global growth and the different events and groups
0:11
doing such great things, check out your answer radio dotnet and
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click events on the homepage in a moment gate on Charles on is a
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Canadian citizen who developed a very early interest in religion.
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He found the Urantia book in 1979 while he was quote
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Desperately Seeking for Spiritual truth.
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In 1997, he participated in a study group for the first time
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and it changed his whole perspective, on the meeting of
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the contents of the Rancho book. And, in fact, his life in this
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interview, we talked a lot about the Rancho movement, who we are
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our mission, his experience and sharing the Revelation, plus
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truths. He's learned along the way on
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the ranch Radio podcast. So Gaitan.
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Tell us a little bit about you and your background, okay?
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So my name is get that from where I live in Canada and check
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out live in the province of Quebec. 30 miles, north of
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Montreal in this small City, that's called Saint Sufi, which
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is at the foothill of the Laurentian mountains, which are
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the oldest mountain. On the Rancher, according to the
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Rancher. I've been a reader since 1979.
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I've been having a study group since 1999 which is still going
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on. To this day.
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I participated in many activities or interrelated and
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the president, my local Association.
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I'm also helping out on other activities, such as nonprofit
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organization for mentally, not disabled, mentally affected
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people, which suffer from anxiety and panic attack.
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Presenters at many of their conferences and I facilitate the
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group every week I brought you on because you have an upcoming
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webinar, you do webinars and all of the things that you talked
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about are things that I really want to talk to you about.
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So I'm really just so blessed to have you on the Rancher Radio
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podcast. So let's start with the
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immediate present which and then we'll go into some of the other
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more, interesting things of your background and your experiences.
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And what's happening In the ranch of book movement but talk
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about the webinar that's coming up this week.
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And for those who may not hear it or see it, who listen to this
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podcast afterwards? Tell us what inspired you to
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want, to tackle the subject of the Lucifer rebellion and its
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impact on us. It also, the Revelation, I
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believe the name of the webinar is Lucifer, the Revelation and
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us. So, tell me what?
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What led you to want to do this this seminar?
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Okay. So, well, in fact, the real
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title is the luciferian way of thinking the Revelation and us,
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as we know that the Lucifer Rebellion has been over when
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Michael's came on her and and finalized.
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In fact, he finalized the Rebellion at that time, the work
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no more Rebellion, but we still live in the effects of the
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Rebellion. So, why was I interested in that
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subject? Well, it's been in my mind. and
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for many years now, you know, when the I traveled the world as
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president of arranged Association International, I
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could see the difficulty of people, you know, trying to come
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together and seeing there was division among the movement.
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You know, there's been a split in 89 which caused a lot of
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problem. I remembered my own feeling when
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the split occur, how I felt devastated, not only mentally
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and emotionally but spiritually. So our but always to find a
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reason for for this happening. Why did people People that are
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supposed to be arranged the book readers.
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Those tabs are like you know, the truth and then they choose
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to split the they shoot to separate themselves into
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different entities and fight you know for many years.
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So it's been an ongoing research for me.
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And And so when I was taking lately, you know, what could I
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do to help people improve their way of living as to become
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really ambassadors of this relation.
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So I made a presentation a while ago, for you way, I which was
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called the father of God in the and a Brotherhood of Man, I did
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the same in French, but while I did the, when I Did the same in
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French? I made it differently.
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Like I was inspired to see different things, you know, like
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I don't prepare my presentation, like, writing down everything.
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I use a few quotes. I let myself Be Inspired at the
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moment when I need the people who, who are present during the
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presentation. So when I made that second
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presentation and French was much inspired to do, maybe the same
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in English, but differently and focus a little bit.
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Or on what I taught and specially what's going on in the
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world at this time. If we look at what the world is
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going through at this time, we know there's a fight to change
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the orders of the world, you know?
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We we see the what's happening? We do crane and the in Russia we
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see what's happening with China that there are nearly affiliated
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with Russia and they're waiting to see what will happen and
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probably one day there will help you know, invade Juan which is
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there therefore front in their mind.
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So there's there's a change of order in the world.
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At this time democracy is being attack on all sides, even from
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within and has been attacked with him for many years for many
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years now. But what about the stretchable
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Creator? Where do we stand?
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In all this doll, those conflict.
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What can we do? And this was the, the reason I
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made this webinar. And for those who are familiar
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with the story, Lucifer, and I would like to talk about that
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because you bring up a lot of different points that we could,
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we could delve into among them is the Liberty Doctrine, what we
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tell us. In your words, Lucifer asserted
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three things when the rebellion occurred, he challenged the
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authority of Michael he believed that God was not real and he
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also believed that far too much time was wasted on the Tendency
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program, the actual building of Souls of Mortals into the
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Mirage, the world and then on Beyond.
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But the the essence is it fair to say that Lucifer's major sin
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was that he said that God didn't exist.
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And today we see that in our culture's the same thing that
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the emphasis is put on personal Liberty without Cosmic
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responsibility Can you delve into how he, how he has impacted
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Modern Life? Well, some of it, many years
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ago, I participated in a lecture at the University of Montreal
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where philosopher was explaining, all the world was
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influenced by the philosophy of Aristotle.
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Our lar were educational system was based on mostly on this
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philosophy and that impressed me a lot.
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So when I read about the Lucifer rebellion and the consequence of
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it and everything, That the Lucifer, Manifesto claim I feel
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well, you know, we've been subject to the Lucifer Rebellion
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for this way of thinking for 200,000 years now.
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I compare that to rest. Stop along we live about four
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hundred years before Christ, so it's about only 200 and 400
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years from now and we've been influenced by him.
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So, imagine the influence that Lucifer has in our way of
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thinking. If This way of thinking was
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influence for over 200,000 years and in it influence not only
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were we thinking they influence our Reflow, Sofia the influence
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our educational system that influence our politics.
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They influence our health system.
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You know it influence how we think about family relationship
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will influence, how we think about Liberty.
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You know I'm Canadian. So when I look at how I see E,
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Liberty, and I look another country, I'll baste your
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Liberty. When I talk to other readers
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across the world, you know, it when I go to, even when I go to
9:20
us where I have many friends, and when we talk about our
9:24
different ways of thinking, I can see that their, their
9:27
perception of Liberties, quite different than mine, how.
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So, so, give me an example, if you could, yes, so why, why
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should that be, you know? So, because in the day, our
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team, In the US that people believe it's their right to know
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by the Constitution. And you know many things it has
9:47
to do also with pollution, for example, the right to do
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whatever we do, you know, like and you know like the right to
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home weapons, we don't have that in Canada and we see for us, it
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is a fully to promote the use of, you know, a broken to a
10:06
home, you know, a weapon for any kind of reason.
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Well, of course, we do have people that go hunting and
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that's okay, but, you know, to own a weapon, just to defend
10:17
yourself, you know, when you're supposed to be a country where
10:21
you're supposed to be dead, well, the most beautiful country
10:25
in the world, the most powerful country in the world where,
10:28
where, you know, how dreams are possible.
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How is it that you need to have a weapon, carry a weapon which
10:35
you all the time to protect yourself, what kind of Liberty
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is that? So for me that was, you know,
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quite a paradox to try to understand that.
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And, you know, I've seen other things, one day, I'm walking on
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the street with one of my friend.
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I don't want to say his name. Anyway.
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There's this guy going by with the motorcycle y'know and those
10:58
motorcycles that make a lot of noise.
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My ear just I just urging and I'm telling you any so I said,
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see this is so infant child in such a way, so why do you say
11:12
that? You know, wow, that's Des
11:13
Moines. I like that noise, you know?
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And I said, well, don't you think that noise is hurting a
11:18
lot of people around some people would like peace and this guy's
11:21
going around but making all kinds of noise in oh, is it the
11:24
really necessary to enjoy riding a motorcycle?
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Right right. There is I think I think that's
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the kind of Liberty sometimes we take without thinking because
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that's the way we are reaping were.
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Well if I ever write to do, why not, you know, and I could tell
11:40
you another story about money, you know, Financial that people
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believe that they can make a lot of money.
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Why not spend it on all crazy thing?
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You know, why not giving it away to people that visit, you know,
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like charitable organization or help?
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The world become a better place. Why use it all for yourself
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instead of using Part of that money to make the world better.
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So this is why I went to when I travel around I was questioning
12:08
myself and I met a lot of people.
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I was privileged to make a lot of people, a lot of people that
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have different views than mine and try to evaluate.
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Am I right? Or they write?
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Can we unify our talk to, you know, can we meet somewhere
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where we are? So this provoked, a lot of
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thinking and me and coming about to look at what the Lucifer way
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of thinking, how was it influencing the world today, and
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not only the World At Large but us as a rentable Creator.
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This is what I want to explore in that webinar.
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We have two major obvious things that And one was the lack of of
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the of a planetary Prince of, of a long-standing think of how the
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world would be different if there had been no Rebellion.
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Adam and Eve would still be here much like, you know, it reminded
13:00
me when we were watching the queen and the world was engaged
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with the the queen and her funeral and you know to me that
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that's a sort of almost a metaphor because human beings.
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We don't have that the we don't have an atom and I need we don't
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have a long-established. His culture Cultural Center, we
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were deprived of being taught Revelation for, you know, at
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least 40,000 years, going back to Adam and Eve.
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And then, of course, as you say, you know, 200,000 years ago.
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So we are basically orphaned from that from certain knowledge
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that would have maybe resulted in us being far more advanced
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than we are today. But what are the other things
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that the and is it fair to say that?
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That man would not had. Let's say Lucifer's Rebellion.
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Never occurred. Is it fair to say that human
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beings themselves would have tried to live without God as
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well? Because because we're not as
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spiritually advanced. In other words, if our
14:05
evolutionary religion was all that we had, it seems like today
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in the age of reasoning and scientism.
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That we're discarding. God as if he is an old cultural
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icon. On.
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And I know that your Ranch a book says it and I know all the
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great religious religious leaders say this, but for
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whatever reason, most people don't believe it, which is that
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if you have a society without God, that that Society is not
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going to last. That seems to be the lesson that
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we're not learning and that's part and parcel.
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Why we're having some of these problems right in the world
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today. But you know what, we still have
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some romaine of the anatomy of the adamic blood in our system.
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So they are still people around the world that are more
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spiritual to mutters taken from there.
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You know, are addiction, can it take everything?
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And if we look at the Rancher Community as we are, one thing I
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will be talking in my my webinar is is about us who are?
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We us wrench, a book reader. Why is it that we were
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interested in the Rancho book? What?
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What makes us different? And I'm going to explore, you
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know, the difference between us and the others.
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We have shown the book in there, not too interested in it.
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So what makes us different? You know, in my family, my own
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family were seven children. You know, the word to wit two
15:45
girls and five boys, and in my own family, out of all those
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children, only me, my sister and my mother who had torrential,
15:59
and I was lucky, you know, was really privileged that my mother
16:02
got interests and differentiable can even my younger sister, but
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they were not as interested in it as I was.
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Yes. And I have this to the group
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with them for many, many years. So I was thinking many times,
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you know, why is it that for me, the wrench, a book attracted me,
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why is it that sound Authority, found me whatever.
16:25
Why is it that it doesn't attract other people, why is it?
16:29
They're not interested in the same question?
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Why is it that my family members who have the same education that
16:35
I have are not interested in it? Look at Jesus family.
16:40
He was the one that was interested which finding is
16:44
father's will, but about his brother and sister, a lot of
16:47
them were you know, nothing yet. Nip interested that he was yet
16:52
the word from the same medication.
16:54
Even Jesus gave them that education.
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What made them different than Jesus?
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And I think the secret is in personality and I will explore a
17:04
little bit about our own personality, who are we?
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As a wrench of a Creator, but Makes us different.
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Do we have a personality that contains potentials that the
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Creator you know, plan that we have on the planet like ours?
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You know personality is given by the father and he knows how to
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to help us out in some ways. So what if our personality, our
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distinct are different than other personality.
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Nothing different in the way that were Superior to anything.
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Different in the way of its potential in the way that we we
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are looking for truth all the time.
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You know, she look at the Rancho book readers that have been that
17:52
have found the book by themselves because they were
17:54
looking for it. What made them so much of the
17:57
truth Seeker. Why are they always searching
18:00
for truth? Looking for God, somewhere by
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Any, Which kind of way? And yet you look at our other
18:06
people that, you know, they're not even addressed by the same
18:09
question. So, I believe that the in the
18:12
any population there are different kinds of Personality,
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some are scientists summer, artists, some are interested in
18:21
healthcare, some are interested in social welfare, whatever
18:24
government politics family but for us, we're interested in
18:29
finding the truth and maybe we are, you know, those profit of
18:34
the new world in the old days that we're traffic, made me wear
18:38
those new profit that we are there to see true True wherever
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we find, you know, a place where to plant those seeds, you know,
18:49
very fertile ground so and I think we can explore this a
18:53
little bit more and find our place in this world.
18:57
And what we can do about it, to make it a better place to live,
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You mentioned that well you first of all you've been to
19:06
probably more than the average study group.
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So do you see commonalities in personality traits of the people
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that you generally run into? Yeah.
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Can you tell us about that? What are those personality
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traits who are we Who do we tend to be?
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I think, first of all I call ourself I would II in French.
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We have a saying where we call. We're mostly like GPS for True.
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People can again, see that? Yeah.
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And and even is study groups, you know, we have people in my
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own study, we've been having, you know, different people for
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the last 22 years. I've been having my study group
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and we've Been having people that are steadfast, you know,
19:52
they always want to know, more and more, and more and more.
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And they had, they are those people that came in and, you
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know, they stayed for us for one year, two years, three years for
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your day less than other scheme in than different type of
20:04
people. Some of them only stay for a few
20:06
months, other state all the time, you know, I have some
20:10
people within my study group that have been there for the
20:12
whole 22 years. Some of them die, but some of
20:16
them stay in, some of them are more Progressive to another
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Depending on their satisfaction with life, you know what's
20:24
happening in their life and when we find someone in our study
20:29
group, that truly is looking for two more than the others truly
20:34
warning to grow more and more, I found out that those people are
20:38
always trying to find a way to express what they have found.
20:44
Either there are associated with service activities outside of
20:48
the Venture community. T.i. have people within our
20:51
study group that are helping people in what they called.
20:55
You know, we have houses where people go when they have cancer
20:59
and they will die. And those people with they do
21:02
they go there to assist those people in their last days on
21:05
this planet, I have other people that go into old people's home
21:10
to give them comfort, you know, to to be a, you know, with them
21:15
to talk with them, to read with them to be a companion with
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them. Myself.
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I'm involved into another group where I help people that suffer
21:25
from anxiety. I have another person, my study
21:28
group that's involved with the local church and she took on
21:32
some, you know, tours in that church and be and be there to
21:39
try to engage in other with other people's and maybe plant
21:44
seed in their mind in all about, you know, some of their true
21:47
containing rentable. Then we have Oh, they're just
21:50
they're you know they're just reading and enjoying the company
21:54
enjoying what we're doing within the study group.
21:57
So they are different personality than a study group
22:00
and it's the same thing in the whole community of Rancho book
22:03
reader. There are those who are want to
22:06
work, who want to be involved, very involved in the community,
22:10
they take responsibility. And at the same time, they might
22:14
have you no other service activity outside of the
22:19
community. Which we encourage very much
22:21
because how is it that we will you know, disseminate the truth.
22:25
That we know that are so dear to us how we will do that for not
22:31
sharing them with people outside of our home community.
22:35
So I'm always engaging people, you know, I'm always encouraging
22:39
people within our group to go outside and share with the
22:45
people, they meet the truth. Did they hold so dearly in
22:49
there? Heart.
22:50
But first to share those true delivery, they need to
22:54
incorporate those truth in their lives.
22:56
They need to live those truth to be effective, you know, source
23:02
of those troops. You know, there's a writing that
23:04
the president's message the president of the ranch
23:08
Association International. As a matter of fact I'm sure you
23:11
know him Enrique in Brazil Trevor.
23:14
Yeah he writes sort of dovetailing on what you just
23:17
said. He says when we Act To attract
23:20
more souls to the kingdom of God.
23:22
There are many different approaches but no matter which
23:24
approach we use. We certainly want everyone to
23:27
feel the same attraction to the Revelation as we do.
23:31
However, he says, I have observed that some of us are
23:34
convinced that converting our fellows in favor of this
23:37
Revelation is a great grace and a precious service to others and
23:41
we offer deliver impassioned speeches, but sometimes it gets
23:45
people into trouble. So and and he like, you, I Ink
23:50
have been around long enough to know that you have to do what
23:53
the master Jesus taught us which is you don't want to overwhelm
23:56
people, you won't right. Exactly.
24:02
Well, well, we've all learned that, you know, if you've been
24:05
reading the book for a long and you've been trying to pass the
24:08
book along to other people, you know, that a lot of people won't
24:12
accept a book. Only a very few will ever
24:16
started reading it, and that was my own experience.
24:18
And I I've learned that some other people also.
24:21
When they share what they try to do with the books, it's
24:24
frustrating. I truly.
24:26
Yeah. And I, and I truly believe, you
24:28
know, like the Bible says, if you try to do something the same
24:31
way all the time, and you expect different levels, then there's
24:35
something is wrong with you. Your approach, you know, you
24:37
have to realize, you have to realize that you're not doing
24:42
the right thing. You know.
24:44
Well, I am, I last podcast I read paper 137, which is where
24:48
Jesus gives his We first public in the synagogue, after the four
24:52
months of training with the apostles and in my mind that was
24:56
the, here's the son of man, the Creator, son Master of the
24:59
Universe, and he's giving his first public speech.
25:03
And then at the very end, the roughly Midway our makes the
25:07
point that really only about 30% of his audience, whatever that
25:12
audience was really even barely understood his message.
25:16
And he knew that he knew that he in his message.
25:19
He must have understood that most people, it was going to go
25:22
right over their head, but he did it in such an impassioned
25:25
way. And by the way, the message that
25:28
he gave on that day is still the same message, which is the
25:31
fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Man, and the
25:34
kingdom is within you. Those are the three precepts
25:37
that haven't changed in two thousand years, you know.
25:41
And, you know, and you know what, when I think I think that
25:44
this truth, you know, that the father is God.
25:46
Our brother would have meant appreciate that.
25:48
God Lives within us. Us is so powerful as a true and
25:54
it is so simple, you know, and it's saying that we disregarded
26:00
as effective way. We don't understand clearly what
26:03
happens spiritually when that when we accept that truth, you
26:07
know when we really understand the profound truth of it you
26:13
know what does it do to a human being?
26:15
And I Think Jesus knew that the spirit of Truth would come after
26:19
him. You know, when he left this
26:21
world. And so you knew that because
26:24
when he left this world, the spirit of Truth would come in
26:26
and then the adjuster would come in the best.
26:29
Truth would become a lot more effective in the mind of man to
26:33
transform them. But it seems like a lot of
26:37
people really get that truth of the for tribulation and they're
26:40
not thinking about it anymore and most rentable Creator wants
26:43
to share everything else that they find in the book.
26:46
You know, some P I was attracted myself.
26:49
I was not attracted by the life of Jesus because I had read the
26:52
Bible before. I was more attracted by the Adam
26:56
and Eve and the Lucifer rebellion and everything else,
26:58
you know about the history of the Rancher can about what
27:02
changed, you know, what can change myself, what can change
27:06
me, spiritually? And then I only discovered that
27:10
way after I read the book a few times with my search about
27:14
finding God, you know, I wanted really to become different from
27:18
one to become like Jesus. This was and I think we forget,
27:23
or we don't understand fully the true meaning or the indication
27:28
of that meaning, which is the far the word of God and their
27:31
brother would have man that lives within ourselves and I
27:35
think it's still in actual thing.
27:37
Today, it is today as important live that reality and to teach
27:43
their that reality, may be the different ways, you know?
27:46
Because they say so direction. Will we have to use different?
27:49
In terms nowadays because of the modern civilization more related
27:53
to family, but we need to find new ways to Proclaim that truth.
28:00
That is true that the challenge because people today because of
28:03
our obsession with words and not being offended and making sure
28:10
that our you know, our egos are never ruffled.
28:14
You know, we have to be careful about and you're right.
28:17
I have I I'm not kidding Gaitan. I have had people tell me, never
28:22
talk about Jesus, they get offended, I don't understand
28:27
that. So do I, but it's the reality of
28:33
our world because so many people have used Jesus in the wrong
28:37
way, they've used them, they use the name Jesus, to Proclaim
28:40
their own ideas, their own agenda, that they the spiritual
28:43
agenda, and that does the maybe devalue the name Jesus.
28:50
But if we live with Jesus in our heart, we don't need to talk
28:54
about this about him all the time.
28:56
This more about this message that is important.
28:59
And people were recognized that I was like, you know, I have
29:04
experienced with my friends from Africa in synagogue, don't know
29:09
you probably heard Musa. The eye in a gal that created a
29:14
series of seminar and I took all those seminar but I was
29:18
interested in how an influence. The people especially the Muslim
29:23
people how is it that Muslim people would be attracted to her
29:27
in trouble and now you're not Imagine sharing dementia book
29:31
with Muslim people. When they see that big part of
29:34
it is about Jesus A lot of them will reject it right away.
29:38
So how is it that he was able to share the UN chable to Muslim
29:42
people? How did he go about it?
29:45
when did the very different way than we did, a way that was very
29:50
respectful of the people living around him and the community of
29:55
people around him, the culture of the people in which he was
30:00
living in, And I learned from from those seminar and today
30:05
they have school where they have the teach every day, where every
30:09
week about 50 different people around the world, to the zoom,
30:14
you know, application and they created a school which is called
30:18
surges, didn't Progressive. They have a website now which is
30:22
French and English and I will share that link and during my
30:24
presentation. And there's also another school
30:27
that I took courses, they're more focused.
30:31
Has on how we shared the teaching.
30:34
You know, we sometimes we forget that on this world that we are
30:38
in now Christianity as at least two billion followers that's
30:45
quite an army. You know, when you look at it,
30:47
two million, two billion people that are Christian in this
30:52
world. And sometimes we forget that,
30:55
you know, if we bring those people along, To accept the
31:00
truth of the fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Man in
31:04
that girl is with him them, then they become free of all those
31:08
Dogma because they'll start thinking about their home, some
31:13
ship with God and that's cool. They that those people that
31:16
created, that s called, are they call it?
31:19
The the school of Ambassador was created by the crisis
31:22
experiment, people. Therefore, people didn't cated
31:25
totally to help Christian Become Believers in torrential books
31:31
teaching. Someone was telling me about
31:32
Julia to. Yeah.
31:34
I recently heard about that and a lot of people, you know,
31:38
because the thing is, is sometimes when people hear about
31:41
them where they come from, first of all, there were at the
31:45
beginning G / witness, they left their church because they found
31:50
you're in trouble and they wanted to share their range of
31:52
work with other people of their own Community.
31:55
But they found out that a lot of people their own Community with
31:58
Not acceptable, but they found ways to do that.
32:01
This, they found ways to bring respectfully.
32:04
That's the problem. You know, when I start thinking
32:07
about that, I was thinking about the fruit of the spirit and
32:11
there's a spoof of the spirit, you know, there are nine of
32:13
them. There's a fruit of the spirit
32:15
the night. I think it's the night once
32:17
called penetrance, I don't know what's called an English chakra.
32:20
In French children, happy do it's too so it's the food that
32:25
the script we don't. Exactly.
32:27
You know, talk about the competence or Temperance is to
32:32
restrain our self, you know, when we're so enthusiastic to
32:37
share too many things, you know, to give too much to drink too
32:40
much. Usually tempt entrances is
32:43
associated with drinking or eating you know, for people that
32:46
drink alcohol but entrance is also for spiritual thing.
32:51
We connect share with baby. A steak, we connect share
32:55
something, everything we know and that's in the rinsable to
32:59
someone. That's still a baby spiritually
33:01
and Jesus understood them. So those people that kreis
33:05
experiment what they did because of their long long association
33:09
with the ajooba witness and all the courses that they took in
33:13
Ministry. They knew they had some
33:17
experience and out to share true because they've been
33:19
experiencing those things for years, you know, trying to bring
33:23
people into the Durante a Jehovah Witness movement.
33:27
Now they took all that experience and they created a
33:30
course which is called School of ambassadors.
33:33
And they'd that course they show you how to bring people that are
33:37
Christian to differentiable. But sometimes people because
33:42
they say are there would you witness their nephew will
33:45
witness? They weren't you over with this.
33:47
You know I was a Roman Catholic before some people were Muslims
33:52
before or still are Muslim. Some people were Jewish.
33:55
Yeah. That as long as you found God
33:57
that you found torrential booking one, share that truth,
34:01
you're no more part of that group, you know, your something
34:04
different. And if people would truly
34:06
engaged himself in taking course.
34:09
And of course the other course, At I took a course in uui, you
34:12
ran to your University Institute, of course that was
34:16
given by Marvin got win with you, the family of God which I
34:20
found very very enlightening and very useful to find out who we
34:24
are as children of God. And I'm pretty sure they all
34:28
kinds of course at the different school like Hubie is or other
34:32
that are very very good for us to learn how to share the
34:36
teaching, but there should be more courses being available.
34:40
Available on how to share the teaching but that only out to
34:43
share it. But how to change ourselves?
34:47
Because we need to be good messenger.
34:50
Not only gives message away but we need to be the message, not
34:54
only to share the message and that's the hardest thing to do,
34:57
I think? You said that when you first
35:03
started going to the meetings that changed your life and it
35:08
changed your approach to the way that you looked at the Urantia
35:11
book because you had had it already in possession for a
35:14
couple of years. So what was the value of the
35:17
study group? What did you get from it to
35:19
change your perception? I can say that my when I first
35:25
participated in mice, the first study group participated in
35:29
1987, that was a few years. After I found a book, I found a
35:33
book in 1979, it took me about a year and a half to read it, and
35:39
after I read it, I took a little break, you know, trying to make
35:42
sense of it. In my mind, one question I had
35:46
was is this all true? I have to struggle with that
35:50
thought, you know? If it's true then I have to live
35:53
according to what it says if it's not true, well what is it?
35:57
Maybe I just discard it. So I let it aside for a while
36:01
and after two years of that, When I taught about it, I was
36:08
at. I was a bit mad at myself mad at
36:11
myself, right? For having read that book
36:14
Because I had taken the decision.
36:16
That was the truth that I was reading.
36:19
I decided that wrench from, or was it was what I was looking
36:24
for all my life and if it was what it was, the truth I needed
36:29
to put my act together because I wish you knew living a very good
36:33
life at that time like many, many people, you know.
36:35
No, I was involved in in alcohol, not that much work and
36:40
I took marijuana a little bit, but I was drinking too much for
36:44
my own known help. So in 1987, when I decided that
36:49
shit, you know, I have to move forward.
36:52
So I decided to join a study group, that was my first group
36:56
because my first experience with other reader.
37:00
I have the different experience with our reader and difference
37:03
meeting. Where were we?
37:05
L3 gathered for Michael's birthday.
37:08
I remember 1982, I went to such a meeting and when I saw the
37:13
people there, you know I saw kind of people in there were two
37:16
of these people that were there that were supposedly Channing
37:19
and they'll kids a day and the word dress like a big can of
37:22
white white rolled and they were playing music and all this and I
37:26
say wow you know this is not what I'm looking for.
37:29
This is crazy, you know, I don't want to be part of a group that
37:33
AB such people in that Jen. I want to be In part of the
37:36
group that people want to do good in life, you know, they're
37:39
good people, they're looking for true that people that think
37:42
they're, you know, milk should Echo whatever, right?
37:44
So I left completely the movement of that day and I went
37:47
alone myself. And so in 1987, I decided when I
37:52
want to turn my life around to participate.
37:54
My first study group and when I did that it was like for me I
37:59
was finding the book again, it was like a new book because I
38:04
was From other people, different ways of looking at truth and
38:10
there's one thing I did not understand that the big welder,
38:13
many things that did nothing to stand by first reading and one
38:16
of them was just Supreme, I did not understand what it was to
38:19
Supreme. And when we read, when we read
38:23
that into the meeting in our study group and I finally got
38:27
it, well, not all of it, but got enough of it to understand one
38:34
of the cleaning it. Transform.
38:36
It took me two years to make adjustment in my mind to really,
38:40
you know, all the all the meanings of it, you know,
38:45
compared to the other crew container in trouble.
38:47
And I was so amazed what the did to me that I say, wow, study
38:53
groups are the place where you can learn something something
38:56
different. It's like everyone is a new
38:58
book. Everyone reads a book
39:00
differently. So every time you listen to one
39:03
of them, it's like you're reading a different You're
39:06
reading a different perspective, different meaning.
39:09
And in our group. Now, what we have with, what I
39:12
ask people to do, is what touch you and what you read?
39:17
Tell me how it affects you, spiritually.
39:20
Tell me how we can apply this truth.
39:23
We just read in your life. What is it?
39:25
That really motivates you? What is it that attracts you to
39:29
the family? And so we have a lot of group,
39:31
we read slowly but people share their True profound spiritual
39:38
impression or emotion of what they re that's that's quite an
39:43
experience because then people, you know, will will associate
39:47
with those understanding their service experience with that.
39:51
Sometimes people are involving different Services outside the
39:54
community, and they will come back there.
39:56
Say here I am, I haven't that experience.
39:59
And this is where the day that knowledge was useful for me.
40:04
And I did that also with myself, when I, when I had business, I
40:08
have the fu business, I still have my own business but I don't
40:11
go to them anymore. I have a partner, but all those
40:14
years that I had, you know, managing my business, I was
40:19
trying to put in those business, those principle that I found in
40:23
wrench ago and it made a lot of difference in my life.
40:27
So I think everyone can do that. That is true.
40:31
This is what stood out for me. Yeah I think the book and the
40:34
study group seeing other people it actually wants me.
40:38
Motivates me. Maybe you others to be a better
40:41
person because you're living for a more greater cause you're part
40:46
of a citizenship, it's like, you know, Jesus says don't strive
40:51
with men. You are not of them.
40:54
Once you accept your citizenship role I suppose and that's just
40:59
Just really interesting and I love what you say about the
41:02
study groups. I found it very comforting just
41:05
to meet people who could, I wasn't afraid to talk openly
41:08
about the Iran Chabot, because you're right and kind of going
41:12
back to what I was saying earlier.
41:14
You know, here's the master of the universe 30% of his audience
41:18
kind of understood his message, but even today, it's still that
41:22
way. It seems like it's a great
41:25
message, but it's still going to fall on a lot of deaf ears
41:27
because let's face it. A lot of people.
41:29
Like you said, he can't give a steak to a child.
41:32
If your if your spiritual language is if you're
41:36
spiritually, illiterate weather is no soil for any truth to grow
41:41
in your head then it's going to be a tough struggle and I know
41:46
I've never felt compelled. I think I gave up after about
41:49
the fourth year of trying to convince people it's just it
41:52
wasn't worth it to me to try to you know advocate for the
41:57
Urantia book. I'd be I met make it known that
42:00
I read it. People want to ask me questions
42:02
or if they like what I say about things then then it's a great
42:06
conversation starter. But so I want to go back real
42:10
quick. This is so important Gaitan.
42:14
Charles Allen is with us and you have such a rich experience
42:18
being now even today, a trustee with your range of foundation,
42:22
president of Urantia Association International Also, working with
42:28
people who have acute anxiety. So today mental illness is such
42:35
a big issue in the Western World.
42:38
Do you think that the Rancho book and it's Urantia book and
42:41
its approach to helping us understand how the mind works
42:45
could help a lot of people with their anxiety with their for
42:49
their depression. Why do we have such?
42:53
What is causing this upsurge in mental illness?
42:58
And how and how does the arrange a book maybe solve some day?
43:03
First of all, I want to make a little correction.
43:05
I'm not a trustee of are was Foundation.
43:08
I'm an associate trustees, has very different but concerning
43:19
mental illness, why was so much interested in it?
43:22
Because at one time I suffered from panic attack.
43:25
So that's where that Affliction. I mean, in fact, I use the
43:29
deflection to become a service oriented toward this.
43:35
This group of people, that suffers was an opportunity for
43:38
me because I got to understand what it was, you know, having a
43:43
panic attack having anxiety, attacking on all this, and the
43:48
cause of it. Also, because they are many
43:50
cause to anxiety and panic attack is there's just one,
43:53
cause in the first thing I remembered when there was some
43:57
friends at home, one Sunday, and I was telling them many years
44:01
ago. Was made in the year. 2000 at
44:03
the beginning of the year 2000. And I told him I had panic
44:06
attack and the were rentable key reader and you know what?
44:09
They told me, they says no, where is your faith?
44:15
Like I didn't have faith that because I didn't have faith, I
44:18
was having panic attacks and, you know and I thought to
44:23
myself, well, you know what is it?
44:26
Is it true that I'm lacking? Save this why I have anxiety and
44:29
panic attack and I see Find out. No.
44:33
Well, of course, faith can help us overcome anxiety, But anxiety
44:37
is not caused by a lack of faith.
44:39
It's caused by many, many other things.
44:41
And so, I devoted while it's over 20 years now, 22 years that
44:46
I've been going to that group and devoted.
44:48
Every week, I help people that group with different people
44:52
coming in every week to that group.
44:54
I made conference for that organization and Hospital, many
44:57
many time in schools in old people, home to help.
45:01
People understand what was anxiety.
45:04
And you know what? When I took the seminar from
45:06
Musa in 2000. Well, you look in 2000 exactly
45:11
2002. After I met him in New York, I
45:13
went to Africa with my friend. Apparently, my wife and we took
45:17
the first seminar and I was so and astounded, you know, was so
45:24
enlightened by what he said about the mind and
45:27
Consciousness, how the work with personality and his first sit in
45:31
our That it changed the way I look at the adjutant
45:34
mind-spirits and the mind I understood mind.
45:37
But not like, he was explaining it because like he was, you
45:41
know, had taught about this for years and years and years
45:43
because it was a psychologist. In fact, he was a social
45:47
psychologist and teaching that and University of the car for
45:50
many, many years. So, I use the knowledge of the
45:54
Mind what they talk about the mind and Rancher book, and that
45:57
Force even are in fact, even this week.
46:02
When I went to do help those people to their the meeting
46:06
lasts for two hours, it's how it works.
46:08
And after the meeting is Theory, you know, like I talked about
46:13
what is anxiety. I talk about different tools to
46:16
control anxiety, and I talked about different ways that we can
46:20
manage anxiety. And the second part is people
46:23
coming together and they're changing their problem.
46:26
You know, we have question, we asked them and each one of them
46:29
has to answer and I used this This one hour, this first one
46:33
hour, and this week, I use that one to talk about the mind and
46:37
the spiritual reality, how it can help resolving the problem
46:43
that excit. So, everything that I learned
46:47
from dementia book, I tried to put it in the way when they talk
46:51
about the mine, in a way that will be consumable, will be
46:55
agreeable to their own mind to their own comprehension.
46:59
So I make drawings, I explained the mind a little bit.
47:01
The brain, then the Mind overlapping, the brain, then I
47:05
put on the side Diego, I put the aside, did the soul?
47:08
I put on top the personality. I don't talk about the adjuster,
47:12
but I talked it and different in their indirect way like the
47:15
heart, you know, when we feel something in that way hard, I
47:18
said, this is the spirit within you and you have potential.
47:22
So I use all this knowledge to teach people.
47:26
I never talk about differentiable.
47:28
Never. Because, you know, that would
47:31
probably chase people away and and it would not be good for the
47:34
organization that I serve. So, but I teach a lot of things
47:40
that I learned in Richie book. I talk to them about the tree
47:43
Value. Beauty goodness, and through and
47:48
what are those tree reality, those tree value, how they can
47:52
change themselves. I talked about the damn of the
47:55
words. They used to express, you know,
47:57
are they good words? Yes.
47:59
And with their actions, how they influence their spiritual
48:02
progression, why spiritual progression is so important to
48:07
resolving the problem of anxiety, that, that they will
48:11
will always have anxiety in our life because people that suffer
48:15
from society as could this position sometimes genetic
48:19
predisposition it's as to do with the expression of the gene,
48:23
but it doesn't change the gene, but I use the one I learned from
48:27
the Rancher book in. A lot in what I do with this
48:31
organization and they'd help people.
48:35
Do you, when you read the arrange a book and it talks
48:37
about feeble-mindedness, and we're makes the distinction
48:41
between the different levels of thinking.
48:44
How do you interpret, how do you interpret that?
48:46
Is it, is it in? Does it offend you does?
48:49
It does it, do you think that it sets people up is?
48:52
Where could create potential problems of superiority
48:56
complexes? If things like that?
48:58
What was your interpretation when they and their?
49:00
They don't? They don't brag too much about
49:02
the human mind. They say that we give our the
49:05
human brain. A lot more credit than it
49:06
deserves, which I find to be humorous, somewhat
49:10
self-deprecating. But yeah, what do you mean to
49:16
talk about that to those people that suffer some anxiety or the
49:20
people at large? No, I'm just in general, like
49:22
your interpretation the Urantia book many times when it talks
49:27
about we tend to have a higher perception of our intellect.
49:31
Intellectual keenness. Then we show I think that's what
49:38
I call spiritual Pride for Enterprise.
49:43
Right. Do you see the going back to
49:47
that though? Seriously though because it's
49:48
very important. Do you believe that secularism
49:52
has a lot to do with the anxiety that's going on in the world?
49:58
In some way, I can see my own, my own country in around the
50:04
people that go to help in the people around me, my own
50:07
community that people today are not like the word before, you
50:12
know, they're not as much believer in God as they were
50:17
before, you know, their family, their parents or whatever.
50:20
So they had slept beside. The McCann has mm that could
50:25
provide them comfort and progress, spiritual progress,
50:29
for example, prayer. And I think a lot of even us
50:32
rentable Creator. I've met so many wrench, a book
50:36
reader. They told me they don't create.
50:37
I could never understand that at all, but they are not no, we
50:40
don't play with me, only God knows what we want.
50:43
So why should we create? And I think people misunderstand
50:46
the power of prayer trailer is one important.
50:50
Very, very important tools. To grow spiritually.
50:54
And the more we grow spiritually, the less, all those
50:58
problems of Life become really entrance in our Evolution
51:03
spiritual evolution. In other thing that I do, and a
51:07
lot of people are not doing effectively or doing on a
51:10
regular basis and dedication. And if we lead, if we paper 160
51:16
162, when I tell you, which is the road and paper, he talks a
51:20
lot about Jesus. Going the hills and did it.
51:23
Thing. But not the meditation that we
51:25
know about today, you know, which is called mindfulness
51:29
meditation or, you know, to personal meditation.
51:33
All those in do is and meditation.
51:35
They're not that kind of meditation that Jesus was doing
51:38
and there was a paper that was written by Peter Ali, which was
51:42
published in the the messenger. And you I UA I Journal many
51:46
years ago that explain what kind of meditation Jesus was doing.
51:51
And this is the kind of That I do every day and I found out
51:55
that after many years been doing that for years now after many
51:58
many years I find out that what I meditate in the morning it
52:03
changed my day and if I don't meditate which I don't anymore,
52:08
I don't pass a day without meditation but if it would
52:11
happen, remember the past I would miss it.
52:14
They that they are would not feel well in my mind something
52:18
was missing that connection was missing.
52:21
So for me, Prayer. Meditation and service are the
52:27
three things that potential. To grow spiritually and when you
52:31
are growing spiritually you don't suffer, you know, from
52:36
panic attack. I know that panic attack in
52:38
more. Of course I still have anxiety
52:40
like any normal human being But it doesn't disrupt my life.
52:47
And I believe that, you know, if people would engage more in
52:50
those activities, even the wrench, a book reader, that will
52:54
get more inspired on how to share the crew.
52:57
It will transform themselves. I'm not saying that some of them
53:01
are not, you know, all of them are not praying or meditating.
53:05
I believe that a lot of our frame, but there are still some
53:08
that don't believe in the power of prayer, didn't think that's
53:11
as important as it is. So, I think that the tools are
53:16
all there for us in the Rancho book to grow spiritually.
53:19
It's just for us to use it, but it takes discipline.
53:23
For example, if I have an appointment early in the
53:25
morning, well, I will make sure I will get up at least an hour
53:29
earlier. So to make sure that I have my
53:32
our meditation in the morning, that's how in my meditation.
53:36
The morning. What I do before I meditate, I
53:39
read two things. We have meditation, you know,
53:42
like small message. The inner voice.
53:44
It's called a book written by LM caddy.
53:47
And then there's few passage Adventure book underneath, it's
53:51
a, it's kind of meditation message that's sent to every
53:55
members of our organization. Sorry about the thought of the
53:58
day that that I've been getting for 20 years from the
54:02
foundation, right? It's a little word of that.
54:05
No, it's a different one. It's one.
54:08
That was the initiator of that. You took from that.
54:14
That small voice. It's a book that was written by
54:16
Lynn caddies 365 meditation and it's related, I believe she must
54:22
have read the winter broken some time, because everything that
54:25
she says, most of it, you can find, you know, relation to it
54:29
in the range of them and keep a home where they did.
54:32
He put some quotes from you, venture book, associated with
54:36
whatever. That woman was, was, she was
54:39
writing in her in her book of my daily meditation.
54:42
And then after I read, I'd that I read were in trouble, I read
54:46
at least a chapter of dementia book and then I go in the
54:50
meditation and prayer and that makes quite a difference.
54:54
And in those meditation, sometimes I got inspiration of
54:59
what I will do during the day or what I was talking about when I
55:02
want to go now, people and I will pray for guidance and
55:06
wisdom in. Those meditation are so
55:09
powerful. Now, you know, they because the
55:11
more I do then, The more, I filled their power, but they
55:15
takes time, and a lot of people don't want to wait for that
55:18
time. They want, you know, the results
55:21
right away, it doesn't work that way, prayer, and meditation
55:24
takes a while for us to feel the change.
55:27
That it makes an us, we have to be patient, but God works in
55:32
mysterious way. Like we say.
55:33
So we have to, we have to have faith.
55:38
Final question for you sir and I appreciate you joining me on the
55:40
podcast and I know a lot of people are very grateful that
55:43
you have stopped in to share some of your experience and your
55:47
Insight. So we're at that stage now where
55:49
it's not like 1982 where you know there were a few of us
55:53
couple groups here you know couple groups there now it's all
55:57
over the place. I'm most surprised I think about
56:00
Africa. It seems like there is a lot of
56:04
soil rich soil, very receptive to the ranch.
56:07
A book in the Revelation and rent and Africa.
56:11
Just such a scarred country. But when do we get to critical
56:16
mass? Where people start talking about
56:19
it or you you know, you know what I mean, critical mass, you
56:22
understand where we get to that point where we're no longer in
56:25
the shadows? It seems like we're getting
56:29
there. We'll get there.
56:33
And when we finally resolve our problem of unity, Like I say,
56:38
you know, like that, I say, but like Jesus says, A House Divided
56:42
within itself cannot stand. And if we have better, if we
56:46
are, as a community, says, the challenge that's ahead of us
56:51
with the changing of the world order light.
56:53
It's coming well for not United. We won't succeed that what we're
56:59
supposed to be doing. We'll have to wait for another
57:01
generation to take the lead. And so we have to resolve our
57:06
issue. We have to come together and be
57:09
United as a front like the Midway creature.
57:12
Did you know the Midway creatures were separated that if
57:16
the the first made with the second were so Midway and they
57:20
came and they said what the Midway, you know we're doing
57:24
they will succeed whatever? You know when they reunited
57:27
doing something, they always succeed.
57:29
And we have to take that example we have to live by the words of
57:34
Jesus. Slightly says, you know, we have
57:35
to be United but not necessarily the formally and when our
57:39
expression but we have to be United and purpose and show to
57:44
the world, a united front. We're not doing that at this
57:48
time and maybe because we're not doing that a lot of the young
57:52
people and the joining us, you know, it's the question of the
57:55
hour. Now how is it that there's only
57:58
old people in the movement. Look in the u.s. you see many
58:01
young people joining the movement like this, The 16, this
58:05
evening, no, in Canada, who same thing, the only place I see on
58:09
people's the new country will go in.
58:12
But how long would laugh? And I've seen even in the other
58:15
country, like in South America, or even in Africa, when they
58:19
see, there's division among the association, it gives them
58:24
confusion, cause confusion. And when there is confusion,
58:28
there's no growth. I've seen that so many times but
58:32
for people to understand that they have to have the experience
58:36
of traveling and seeing what happened and then only traveling
58:39
and see what happen but experiencing what's happening
58:44
and experiencing? What's happening is that you
58:46
have to be in service, try to promote Unity.
58:52
And when you see that, you have a problem doing that because
58:55
there's no coordination of effort moving along.
58:58
You see our computation can be so disheartening.
59:04
So like an old African proverb says that I learn.
59:08
If she want to go fast, go alone.
59:11
If you want to go far go as a group.
59:15
So who wants to go far as an organization?
59:18
We need to go as a group that has many groups as one group.
59:22
This is my, this is what I believe in.
59:27
Well, gaita Gaitan. Charles and I want to thank you
59:29
again for joining me on the ranch a radio Podcast.
59:33
I know that unfortunately, your Zoom, your webinars coming up
59:37
this weekend, but it'll be up, hopefully, then in they'll be a
59:41
place where you can watch it if you don't make it if you hear
59:44
this podcast and it's next week and you're enjoying Thanksgiving
59:47
with everyone. But is will there be a place
59:50
where people can watch the webinar after it's been done?
59:53
Or do you post it on the association website?
59:56
We're can we find that? It will be posted on YouTube,
1:00:01
the change, the association, or anxious insertion of
1:00:04
international. YouTube chain Channel, it will
1:00:07
be post on some local Association.
1:00:11
I've posted on Vimeo, I have a we have in our local Association
1:00:16
delay website. We also have a YouTube channel
1:00:19
and will be posted on our own website so it will be posted at
1:00:22
different places so and then they're probably an announcement
1:00:25
to say words suppose that after work.
1:00:27
Terrific. Thank you again.
1:00:29
God bless you and all your wonderful wonderful efforts and
1:00:32
I hope that we can talk again at some point in the future.
1:00:34
Sir. Thank you.
1:01:07
When?