Latest / The Daily Writer / The Author’s Guide to Producing and Narrating Audiobooks | Trenton Bennett & Lynn Smargis

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The Author’s Guide to Producing and Narrating Audiobooks | Trenton Bennett & Lynn Smargis · The Daily Writer

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Hey friends, welcome back to the Profitable Writer Podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you're new here, my name is Kent Sanders.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an author and ghostwriter, and this is the show that helps you grow your impact and income as a writer.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for joining me for this episode of our Summer Expert series.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, as you probably know, in the last couple of decades, audiobooks have exploded in popularity.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, audiobooks are the fastest growing segment of digital publishing, with Audible distributing well over half of all audiobooks.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, what's not to love with audiobooks?
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: You can listen to audiobooks anywhere, you can listen while you're doing other things, and most people can listen to a book faster than they can read the print or the ebook version.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've ever considered creating audiobooks as a companion to your print books or your ebooks, I think you're really going to enjoy this episode.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: I am joined by Trenton Bennett and my friend Lynn Smargus for a conversation about options and processes for producing and narrating audiobooks.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Trenton is an audiobook narrator who has nearly 10 years of voiceover training, coaching, and work.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: He is also skilled in related areas like podcasting and professional audio production.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: He's narrated dozens of books in science fiction, fantasy, romance, mysteries and thrillers, religion and spirituality, military adventure, and more.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: You can find out more about him by going to his site, which is TrentonBennett.com.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Let me take a moment to tell you about my other guest, Lynn Smargis.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Lynn helps leaders, executives, and consultants transform their expertise into published works.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Her books include Sensible Senior Solutions, Long-Term Care Choices and Funding Options for Seniors, as well as Nine Stumbling Blocks Preventing Creatives from tapping into free grant funds, which she co-authored with Danielle Corbett and Leo York, and that book reveals the hidden pathways to creative funding.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Lynn is also the host and producer of Publishing for Professionals, a podcast that sprinkles publishing wisdom across all major platforms as well as YouTube.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: You can find out more about Lynn at writeforyou.me.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: So in this conversation today, we talk a lot about why authors should produce audiobooks, options for production, how to actually get them done, and whether you should narrate your books yourself or use a narrator.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: No matter where you are on your author journey, this episode I think is really going to help you make some critical decisions about where audiobooks fit into your business.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: And with that, here's my conversation with Trenton and Lynn.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm so thrilled to have both of you here on the Profitable Writer Podcast.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Trenton and Lynn, welcome.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: I have not done an episode in a while that had two guests in one shot.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you both for being here.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thanks for having us, Ken.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: This is this is a blast.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: I always enjoy um chatting with you on your show.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, thanks again.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Glad to be here.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh super excited to talk about this topic because I don't know that I have actually ever done an episode on this show just on audiobooks, which seems like a crime.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like I should be thrown in jail for it because it's it's like such an obvious topic for authors, but I don't, or if I have, it's been a while since we did a topic on this.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm super excited to dive into this.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: So um Trenton, let me start out with with you.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in terms of so you're in this world of audiobooks all the time.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of authors, I think, feel intimidated by the process of having an audiobook produced, or you know, should they do it and is it worth the hassle and all that stuff.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, walk us through a little bit why authors should consider having an audiobook in the first place, if you can.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love helping authors because I find that there's a gap between, okay, I got something written, but how do I get there?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And why?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, real quick, a couple of fast takeaways.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: First off, audiobooks have continued to experience double-digit growth for about the last 15 years.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're a huge viable market, not just during the pandemic when they soared, but they're continuing to grow even afterwards, and of course, well before.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: The second piece of that though is that an audiobook doesn't really compete with your book.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: What it does is it creates another platform to share your story.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a couple of factors in that that actually drive more sales.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: First off, is when you promote one, you end up selling them both.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Each of them promotes the other, and it also makes you seem more established.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you've got a book and an audiobook.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Great, this is someone who goes across the platforms.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: But the second is there are a lot of people who absolutely love to read books, but they have to vacuum, they got to take the kids to soccer practice, they got to commute to work, and they love audiobooks.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of them will end up buying both.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because what they'll do is they'll use something Amazon has called whisper sync, where I'm reading the book, now I gotta put it down, I gotta get in the car, I'm gonna hit my audiobook on my phone, and it picks up where I left off.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: And when I get out of the car and it's my lunch break at work, I pick up the book and the e-book synks up to where the audiobook left off, so they go back and forth.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing though I think is pretty cool, and that's that people who struggle to read will often use what they call immersive reading.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: They'll buy the book and the audiobook, and they want to have the audiobook read to them while they're reading to help their skills.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: The same is true for people with English as second language.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: They'll look at the words, they'll listen to the audio, and then they'll speak along with it to improve their speaking skills.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of different ways that audiobooks help people beyond the obvious I love stories, but my hands are full.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's really true.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it is funny because there's a lot of product categories that we as consumers buy where we buy multiple versions of the same thing.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, think of like Taylor, massive Taylor Swift fans.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and she's a super genius marketer, uh, and everybody knows that.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, she'll put out a bunch of different versions of the same album, and her super fans are buying every version of that.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or think of you know, people like me, big fans of 80s music.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you bought the you had the the record in the 80s, then you bought the cassette, then you had the CD, and now you're paying for it on streaming, and it's or then you go to the concert.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's interesting how we as creators can take one thing, we can make several versions of that thing, and then monetize each of those separately.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I actually love this.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really cool thing.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Lynn, any thoughts on this?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're into you're in this world as well.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, no, I was gonna say I back up with Trenton's as 100%.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like I, as an author, right, I didn't, I had never done an audiobook until I did uh just recently produce one with Trenton for my latest book.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: I just put out some called Sensible Senior Solutions.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so I had not walked through that process.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: And so to have somebody walk me through that audiobook process was priceless because I could yeah, could I have done it myself?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, but it would have taken me like 20 times longer to do it myself, and my time is more valuable than that.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: So to have a professional like Trenton walk me through that audiobook process was just priceless because that saved me so much time and energy and frustration on my end that I didn't have to go through.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: Cause the, you know, the regular self-publishing, I've got that down.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: I could do that my sleep.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: But the audiobook process was definitely new to me.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: But I did know that there are certain standards audiobooks have that I didn't even want to jump into.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: Cause even though I am really good at tech, I have one of my master's degrees is in tech technical productivity, which is basically like learning how to use software and programs and teaching it to other people.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I had not done the audio, like for some reason, audio tech just does not sync with my brain at all.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: So it was really great that I could have Trenton walk me through that process and not have that frustration and and drama of going through that on my own.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I had fun doing it.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you did.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Because there were times I was like, thank God you were here walking me through this pretty much every time I talk to you.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Trent, let me ask you the question that I know that you get.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the same question in a different form that I get as a ghostwriter.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I know on Amazon people can upload their book and they can have AI narrate their book.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I get I get the question all the time, you know, are well, number one, are you freaked out by the use of Chat GPT AI?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like just yesterday, there was a at we're recording this.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yesterday, as of this recording, there's this huge, I forgot, I forget what it's called, this new Chinese AI company that's freaking everybody out, deep something, I forget what it's called.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's lots of chatter and talk about this.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Why should somebody hire an actual human to narrate their audiobook as opposed to just uploading it to Amazon and having AI narrate it?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, first I'm gonna hit that last one because that last one has some technical things that people should be aware of.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: When it comes to actually doing a virtual voice, you cannot use AI to narrate an audiobook and push that through Amazon Audible and iTunes because it's a violation of the terms of service of ACX.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: And just a sidebar.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: When I say ACX, that is the clearinghouse owned by Amazon that Amazon uses to publish its audiobooks to Amazon Audible and iTunes.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: So all four of those are in alignment.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're not allowed to go say, have a chat engine crank out an audiobook and then you upload that to ACX and that's your audiobook.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's against their terms of service.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: However, the second piece is there is an offer that they do called Virtual Voices.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Virtual Voices will allow you to choose an AI narrator.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know the mechanics of how that works, but I want to throw this in for two reasons.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: The first is what has happened in this industry is a lot of people who are not writers have jumped into the Virtual Voices bandwagon and had AI generate a script of an audiobook that's maybe 45 minutes long or an hour, and then they use a virtual voice to publish it.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: And what happens is the market gets clogged with a lot of slop, a lot of stuff that people just don't like.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: But it just bombs kind of if you go to new releases and there's a hundred items there that are all virtual voices, you'll notice a lot of them are really short because they really are, unfortunately, people just trying to skim 99 cents or$2 out of people on a product that they don't care if it gets negative reviews because they didn't really assemble it.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you end up getting lumped into that when you see virtual voices because a lot of listeners are already going to be turned off to the scammy side, unfortunately.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: But the second piece I want to mention is very important, which is whenever you listen to a 30-second commercial spot, and I know they're saying, well, AI voices get better.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: They have nuance, they can breathe.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: That works fine for a 30-second spot.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: But what you will do as a human is you are wired to listen to a human being talking like I am now, using all these mouth thingies in my head and doing things with the air and little nuances of my body language that actually come out despite the fact that we're not in the same room together.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And an AI cannot mimic that.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: And what will happen with your ears is it may seem all right for 30 minutes or an hour, but when you start getting into it for a while, you become instinctively uncomfortable.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's a kind of an uncanny valley of the ear where you're listening to something that just doesn't something doesn't sound right about it.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're talking about a 10 or 12 hour audiobook, people are going to be more resistant and less enjoy it because there's something in the back of their mind that just doesn't seem right.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like the Polar Express effect, you know, which is where, you know, of course that movie's almost, I think it's over 20 years old at this point, where you watch it and you just go, there's something kind of off about these CGI characters.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that's still the case sometimes, even with movies that come out, you know, that have come out in the last year or two.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's you look at those, those and you go, there's something's a little bit off about those.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love the musical number Shuck a lot in that movie.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, I'm looking at it going, it's a little eerie because everything's just a little bit too mechanically perfect, and everybody looks just a little bit too much like a doll.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really true.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: I was actually recently part of a small film festival judging, and someone, you know, some people had sent in AI movies they could they created with AI, and like the skin doesn't even move or like it moves too much, or like it's and it's just super creepy to see that as a human being, right?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: To see like another quote unquote human being skin not move correctly.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's I mean, it's it's just really bizarre.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: And that also applies to like some of the ASMR videos you see, right, on YouTube, not the ones where like you're just listening to potato chips, but like I love like the Harry Potter and some other the like real relaxing ones, and some of them have people in it, right?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: And if they don't move fluidly, it just like I actually sometimes get goosebumps, like watching that or hearing, especially hearing it for some reason.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: The actual audio when it's not a human voice creeps me out more than the visually watching that.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I have actually listened to AI.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: I've listened to some um, like I listened to a ton of podcasts, right?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: But you can always tell the ones that are read by AI and the commercials.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: And if I hear a podcast and it's consistently using AI to do its commercials, I will literally unsubscribe and unfollow because I can't listen to that AI voice.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: It totally creeps me out.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: I know it's not human and it just doesn't sound right.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like it just, yeah.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I always recommend to people, like, yes, you can you use AI to list to read your audiobook.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: You could, but I always recommend to people have a human person read it because people on the other end know and they will listen to that and it will really turn people off, not just to your one book, but to anything you put out, because they're thinking, oh, that's that person who's put out that crappy audio that's all AI and that's all they're listening to.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: People want real experiences from real people.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: People don't necessarily want to listen to AI all the time.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: And there's been a lot of studies lately that show most people don't trust AI.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: So if they don't trust AI and they're listening to something to that AI, that's actually unbuilding your trust factor with your following.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: So you would really have to consider is that what you want to do when you put that published work out?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: I would say, as a professional and as a personal, you know, consumer, no.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: One chance to make a good first impression.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: So can we talk about some options for production?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Trenton, you mentioned ACX.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what about for people who don't want to go that direction or they want to produce it themselves?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: What are some different options that people have with production?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let me start off with ACX.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: A quick recap.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: One of the reasons ACX is an advantage is they manage the back and forth with you and the narrator.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: They give you a space to put out your audition and find talent.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's an easier platform to do that with.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they manage the contract, they manage the agreement for you.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: They make sure they're the all the stuff passes the technical checks that they require for good audio.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a nice thing, but also they take more in return as far as the royalty.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I get it.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because the other thing you can do is if you're working with an indie publisher, great.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: They can have if they have their own production house.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, if you're working with a publisher that does not have their own production house, then you'll probably need to find one.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the important thing to know here when you're looking for audio engineers is go out to forums and audiobook spaces and look for companies that produce audiobooks and ask them for help with this because they will be producing this to a specification that you have to pass.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: What I mean by that is when you're looking for a company, make sure it's a company that has done audiobooks before, not a company that does commercials and animation and video games.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: They need to know how to produce audiobooks because there's a specification for that.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the last thing I'll mention though is there's a little bit of an out here.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if you go to your publisher and they don't have a production ability, or if you think to yourself, well, how do I make a production house work with a narrator?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of us narrators are trained to produce.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: So what'll happen is one of two things.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Either the narrator will be on the hook to deliver the audio, which is the way it works in ACX, and it's the way I work, is I'm going to give you the finished audio, or they'll be willing to work with a production house they already have, and that saves you a lot of trouble because then they go ahead and do that, they bake that into the price of the book, and they'll handle all the production for you, and you just know that you now have the finished files that you can decide to put on ACX or anywhere else.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get back to the conversation in just a minute, but I want to take a moment to give a big thanks to today's sponsor, Vellum.
• 16:40
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• 16:48
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• 16:53
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• 17:00
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• 17:09
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• 17:16
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• 17:21
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• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's trivellum.com slash Kent.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's get back to the conversation.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: What Trenton says is so true because when so, you know, I'm I'm Trenton and I and you can are in the podcasting industry, but I have seen like when podcasting first started out, right?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: Not a lot of people were doing it.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: So there were not a lot of people looking for podcast production companies.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: But then like about four or five years ago, I started seeing a lot of advertising or media companies start turning into, oh, we can do your podcast production.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I didn't know I was working with one at the time.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: I thought they had done podcast production before and they hadn't.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so I would totally agree with Trenton.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: Don't go with somebody who does audiobooks as kind of like an afterthought, right?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: Go with somebody who has has experience doing audiobooks because they actually know what they're doing as opposed to like the companies that have are doing audiobooks because it's popular, it's a way to make money, right?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: They don't have the experience, they don't know how to guide you and through those loopholes, and they're not gonna get you the fastest way in.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: They're gonna make mistakes.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: And the person that's gonna pay for them is you, is the client.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: So definitely don't go with somebody unless they have a you know experience doing.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I would also say ask for references and call them.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: Don't just ask for numbers or emails and not call them or follow up because that's really important.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people ask for references, they don't follow up.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: And it's amazing what happens when you actually follow up with references.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: And if they've done other books, go listen to the finished product, the retail sample, and go look at what the reviewers are saying.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Are the readers saying, Oh, I love this person's voice?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or are they going, uh, it sounded terrible.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't hear that.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, those are great tips.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let's talk a bit about the process of how do you actually go about this?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say somebody's listening to this episode and they think, okay, I for sure want to, number one, I want to hire a professional to do this, uh, and I've decided I'm gonna go that direction.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what are the next steps for doing it?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do they go about thinking about setting up a budget or uh figuring out how much to pay somebody?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, those those kinds of things.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: How does that process work?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: That is a great question because you do want to set up a budget ahead of time.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: And there are a lot of authors who just use a GoFundMe and they get their fans or Patreon to support them to get them a budget for the audiobook, and they'll offer little goodies like I'll send you a signed copy of my printed book or something like that.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're going through this, the audiobook industry runs a few different ways.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: The easiest way to skin it is to look at what they call per finished hour.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And what that means is if your book will end up being 10 hours long, you're not paying me an hourly rate, you're paying for 10 finished hours of content.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: So narrators will quote you a price of per finished hour.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the starting point of this is$250 per finished hour.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Typically, you want to aim for around$300 per finished hour.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: That may seem like a sticker shock because you're thinking,$300 an hour?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, that's that's a lot.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing is, what you're doing is you're paying for the finished content.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: As a narrator, you're gonna you're gonna set yourself apart from the auditions where people are going, gosh,$50, I'd be happy to do that.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: I've been doing these on Fiverr forever.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you want people who know what they're doing and are gonna perform.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the other piece of that is, just to give you an example, when I do your audiobook, I've already read it twice and we've talked about it.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've done a fast pass through there looking for names of people and places, passages in foreign accents or foreign languages, accents and dialects, and anything else about the text that might look like it's either off or we need to talk about a little more to get specific.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've done that so that I've made sure all the speed bumps are out of the way, and I'm not gonna deliver you ten chapters of pronouncing the main character's name wrong.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: The second piece of that, though, is I deep dive.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: I now read it and go, okay, who is this character?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: What is their relationship to the others?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: What are their obstacles?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: What is their journey and where are they going to end up?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm going to get into the performance and get in the characters' heads.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll be talking with you about that if I have questions so that we make sure we do it right.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: One of my favorite uh early authors who I've been working with for a long time now, one of the first times he reached out to me is he said, Tell me anything you want to know about the characters.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: I even have their favorite Scotch written down somewhere.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Great.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Gimme that because I'm gonna work all of that together.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna rehearse, I'm gonna produce it, I'm gonna get all the errors out of the way, and I'm gonna make sure it meets the Qualifications and feeding into that is me spending a lot of time doing acting lessons and getting coaching and training from people in this industry to make sure that I'm still working to trends and I'm still giving you a performance that audiobook listeners really want.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Love that.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Love that.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um Lynn, what was your experience like having Trenton narrate your audiobook?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Did you did you wind up with, and I know the answer to this, but I'm sort of asking your reflections on this.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: What was it like to end up with a finished product that you felt like you could be really proud of and that was really narrated and produced by a true professional with audiobooks?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, actually, it's funny.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: The finished product wasn't the thing I was most excited about, although it was excellent quality.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying like it was bad or anything, but the thing I loved most about working with Trenton is like when I was like, hey, let's work together, you know, and um we agreed we were gonna work together.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: He literally sent me over this PDF is like, these are all the things you need to know when you work with me.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: And it was literally like step by step what we are gonna do.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: And it has never been so easy to work with another creative professional because I mean, I love creatives and there's you know a ton of us in this industry, but not every creative is very organized, like you know, like some of us are.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was really great to be working with somebody who was not only amazing at what his craft, but that was very organized in the process.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so that was probably the best thing for me is that working with somebody that was so organized and we could get things done super quick.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like half the time he was waiting for me, and normally it's the flip, like I'm waiting for the other person.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: So it was really nice that Trent just really, you know, stepped up and then um, you know, he was taking, you know, of course, taking the lead on the client project side, but um, or on the or on the voice actor side, but that he was actually, you know, always responsive, always communicative, like, you know, if he always asked questions if he had one.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: So that was really great for me as you know, in the client role, because I knew he was really paying attention to all the details and wasn't just like running through it super quick and just checking it off his list.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: So that was a really great um experience for me being his client.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I would definitely use him again and would recommend him for anybody that's listening to this who wants to make an audiobook because he has a fantastic voice as well.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Lynn.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and I'm welcome.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: You should pay me after the interview.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Your check is in the mail.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and and while we're on the subject though, Lynn brings up a good point about working with her.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's another thing that I I wanted to mention.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: There were a lot of things in her book that were useful information that if I were listening as an audiobook listener, I might not want to sit have have to write it down because I'm out on my run, you know, I'm on the treadmill and I can't take notes.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things we talked about that you can do is you can create a downloadable supplement that's a PDF that contains links and other content.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: I do this for authors all the time.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: We work together on a little supplement that'll have charts, diagrams, statistics, and sometimes we'll also work together to modify the text in the audio.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it'll say something like, see the diagram on page three of the downloadable supplement, and then we move right on.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that's another thing to keep in mind when you're working with your text.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: There may be a few things to adapt that a good narrator is gonna catch, and one who's not as experienced in this field might just go, Oh, I we'll skip those.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's up to you, but you want somebody who's gonna take care of you.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of been my mantra is I want to take care of everybody I work with, whether it's a producer, a publisher, or a writer.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, and these little things really make a difference that you mentioned, Trayton.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: Because I know one of the things as a podcaster, right?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: When I'm listening to someone else's audio, I can pick up like when they edit or they didn't edit and they should have, or what those little nuance things.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: And that's really what, and I talk about this as a publisher.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's really what makes the difference between looking like you're self-published and looking like you're not self-published, even if you are self-published, right?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: Because that, you know, having your book edited, oh my God, I am so surprised about some of the like the the ebooks I've downloaded on Amazon.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: And you can clearly tell they have not had a professional editor, and I'm just like delete it, like there's no point in even reading it.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then not just because I'm in the publishing industry, but mostly because I don't want to read something that that had just has blatant mistakes in it that someone didn't even take the time to even throw through grammarly, right?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like at least throw it through the free version of Grammarly.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: So all those little nuanced things, especially when it's just audio, right?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: If it's a video, you don't have to worry about the audio as much.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: But if it's just audio, you really have to pay attention to all these little nuanced audio elements because people that's all they're listening to.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's the only sense they're using to listen to your book.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so people will pick up on those little things if you don't have them corrected.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there's you'll watch a YouTube video, and a lot of the YouTubers that are most popular, they'll have these fast jump cuts to stitch all the content together.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that's great.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: People are getting used to that.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: But when I'm right inside your ear canal and you need me to tell you a story and you're getting immersed in a story, we don't do jump cuts.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: When I make a mistake and I have to go back and fix something I said wrong, it flows to where you can't tell the difference.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: It has to be that way because otherwise you're gonna hear that slight little tick of the audio file where one was clipped into another one.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can't do that.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: It has to be absolutely smooth and sound like everything ran perfectly end to end.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Let me look at this for a minute from the other point of view.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say if there is somebody listening, probably more than one person, but you know, I always refer to people listening to the show as an individual because people listen individually.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, what if somebody's listening and they think, man, I would love to get into the field of audiobook narration?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: How would they go about doing that?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: There's a couple of ways to do this.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to straight up narrate your own book, that's one approach to take, but and even so you could do the second approach, which if you want to learn how to be a narrator, I started off with the ACX Audiobook Masterclass, which is run by Dan O'Day and David H.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Lawrence, the 17th.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: They have hundreds of graduates with thousands of audiobooks to their name.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it just so happens that this week they started enrollment for this year's class.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: But the point is they'll do it from time to time, and you get this four or five-week course, depending how it's structured.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: You run for a few weeks with these people where they start you from, I don't know how to use a computer, and they get you to, I just got my first offer.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: When I took the course, part of it was building a profile, looking for auditions, and submitting auditions.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: And before that course was done, I had landed two audiobooks and was working on them when I suddenly got a third right after the class was done.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: So the ACX Audiobook Masterclass was really helpful for me.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: And they use this really simple technique that you don't have to worry as much about the tech because you can clear the bar.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I really appreciated that class to help learn.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, if you're an author and you feel like you've got a natural knack for this, take one of your books, sit down in the closet with a computer, and record yourself reading your book.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: And every time you make a mistake, hit stop, go back five seconds or ten seconds, and start the recording again and reread it, and do that until you get all the way to the end of the chapter, then play it back to yourself and ask yourself if you like the sound of that and if that's something that an audiobook listener would enjoy.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's probably the part where you're going to hear whether or not you have the acting skills.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is going to sound a little weird because we're used to a documentary having a dry tone that monotone talks through the text, but the narrator is a character in the story, and they do have an opinion.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Even if it's very subtle, they do guide the text and they do help the listener get through the story when they're not straight up voicing distinct characters.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Man, that's that's some great advice right there.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to be honest with yourself, don't you?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because not everybody has a voice or the uh sort of not everybody has the artistic ability to narrate well.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that is absolutely a skill that not ever that not everybody has.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Same as ghostwriting, same as uh car mechanics, same as any other kind of skill, for sure.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you wanted to self-train, you could buy a book and an audiobook and a couple of bestsellers and sit there and read and listen and read and listen.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: But to be honest, that use of your time when you're a writer and you really should be spending that writing is not the best.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's better to be able to just keep doing your writing and let someone else take care of that for you while you continue writing.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like the author I'm working with right now.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we've done science fiction and military adventure, and he just keeps flipping back and forth.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he had two separate science fiction series.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: So he was just writing and writing and writing, and I might be working on one book while the next series is getting ready for me to work on too.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it made it easier for him to be more prolific.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's fantastic.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, I've appreciated this conversation.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: I have learned a lot, and uh, I feel like both of you have packed a lot of wisdom into a relatively short amount of time.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: How can people get a hold of both of you if they have more questions or want to follow up or want to check out uh your work?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe uh give us a website or wherever you would like to send listeners to.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Mine's pretty easy.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: My website is trentonbennett.com, and Bennett has two N's and two T's.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you can email me at Trenton at TrentonBennett.com.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that part's really simple.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: You'll find me on Facebook and Instagram and YouTube.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a lot of helpful videos just in general from how to treat an acoustically treat a space to prep an audiobook to so on.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I also go by the nickname Voice of Trenton.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll probably see me on Instagram and on YouTube as Trenton Bennett V O or Voice of Trenton.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Lynn, how about yourself?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so if you're on the socials, you can find me under Unicorn Publishing Company.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then if you want to reach out to me on my website, it's um right for you.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: So it's w-r-i-t-e-f-o-r-y-o-u.me.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: And you can also email me at Lynn L Y N N at Wrightfor You.me.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you both so much for taking time to be a guest on the show today.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I've loved this conversation and uh just excited about the next time we can connect as well.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you both again so much.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a blast.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Ken.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Really appreciate your time.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Glad to be here.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, thanks so much for joining me for this episode of The Profitable Writer.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: As always, I really appreciate you taking time to listen.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm looking forward to Friday's conversation, which is gonna feature a chat with my good friend, Jim Woods, about writing fiction.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've ever considered writing fiction or you're in the mood for a really good western, which is the series he's writing now, you're really gonna enjoy that episode.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: So looking forward to seeing you then.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Before we go, I want to give a big thanks to today's sponsor, The Word Wizard.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you may have written a great book, but it's not ready for publication until it's been in the hands of a great editor.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why my friend Karen Hunsinger, also known as The Word Wizard, is the perfect partner to help you craft the highest quality book possible.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a great editor doesn't just correct grammar and spelling, they also correct wordiness, shifts in tone and voice, overuse of particular words, and they also enhance transitions, clarity, and accuracy.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: I've worked with Karen many times, and she is your secret weapon for crafting an amazing book.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Visit Karen Hunsinger.com for a free sample edit.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's Karen Hunsinger.com for a free sample edit.