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Pan's Labyrinth: The Dark Fairy Tale That Still Haunts Us - Xenomania 85 · Xenomania

• 0:00
  Jon: This week on Xenomania, the aftermath of the Spanish Civil War
• 0:05
  serves as the backdrop for one of the darkest fairy tales ever filmed.
• 0:10
  A young girl and her mother are brought to a Spanish military compound in the midst
• 0:15
  of an ongoing battle with guerrillas.
• 0:18
  As conditions worsen, Ofelia sinks further into a fantasy world
• 0:24
  where she may be the lost princess of a vast underground kingdom.
• 0:30
  Is this merely a child's imagination run wild?
• 0:33
  Or is she soon to return to her father?
• 0:37
  This is Pan's Labyrinth.
• 0:40
  This is Xenomania
• 0:58
  Kearns: say?
• 1:02
  No way.
• 1:03
  No way.
• 1:03
  You guys whiffed horribly on that.
• 1:06
  You had to do the, "What does the fawn say?"
• 1:09
  Jon: Oh, I thought we were just doing the noises.
• 1:11
  What does the fawn say?
• 1:14
  Kearns: Yeah.
• 1:15
  Um, we gotta do another open.
• 1:18
  No way that's the opener for this episode.
• 1:20
  No, sir. Ugh.
• 1:23
  Do you wanna try it again?
• 1:24
  Now it's gonna be so forced
• 1:26
  Ryan: No, it won't.
• 1:29
  Kearns: It won't
• 1:30
  Ryan: That's
• 1:31
  Jon: It will
• 1:31
  Ryan: Cult
• 1:33
  Kearns: The Blue Oyster Club.
• 1:35
  Jon: The Blue Oyster Cult?
• 1:37
  Kearns: Cult
• 1:37
  Ryan: no, not, um, the Blue Oyster Club.
• 1:39
  Sorry.
• 1:40
  There's… Yeah, the Blue Oyster Club.
• 1:41
  Kearns: from Police
• 1:42
  Ryan: At least I get- Yeah.
• 1:44
  Kearns: Yeah.
• 1:45
  Gotcha.
• 1:46
  Jon: I thought we were fearing
• 1:47
  Kearns: the connection, but understand the reference.
• 1:51
  Jon: I thought we were fearing the reaper
• 1:52
  Kearns: Yeah, that would've been better.
• 1:54
  That would've been a little bit more on the nose for this episode, which
• 1:57
  Ryan: Fair
• 1:58
  Kearns: Labyrinth, everybody
• 2:01
  Jon: Yeah, buddy
• 2:02
  Ryan: took me a while to watch this.
• 2:04
  You guys had to hold me down and do some Clockwork Orange, and I loved it.
• 2:09
  And watching it a second time, uh, made me love it even more.
• 2:14
  Kearns: Still
• 2:14
  Ryan: don't remember the eye drops, John?
• 2:15
  The drops?
• 2:18
  Jon: No, I remember.
• 2:19
  I just don't like the vision of us holding you down
• 2:22
  Kearns: Yeah.
• 2:24
  Yeah
• 2:27
  Making him take his medicine.
• 2:29
  The medicine was a brilliant film
• 2:34
  By Guillermo del Toro
• 2:37
  Jon: Can all three of us say Guillermo del
• 2:39
  Kearns: your
• 2:40
  Jon: Toro today?
• 2:40
  Kearns: Bull Hurley.
• 2:42
  The listeners are gonna love this.
• 2:43
  Yeah, there you go.
• 2:45
  Jesus Christ.
• 2:45
  Die quietly.
• 2:48
  Jon: But can we all say Guillermo del Toro today?
• 2:52
  Kearns: Yeah, well he can barely, like, speak
• 2:54
  Ryan: Guillermo?
• 2:55
  Kearns: Ah
• 2:56
  Jon: Guillermo
• 2:57
  Ryan: Guillermo.
• 2:58
  Kearns: How many
• 2:58
  Ryan: Guillermo
• 2:59
  Kearns: del Toro movies have we done so far?
• 3:02
  Jon: I think this is only the second.
• 3:04
  Kearns: second.
• 3:04
  Frankenstein in this?
• 3:06
  Jon: Yep.
• 3:07
  Frankenstein and Pan's Labyrinth
• 3:08
  Kearns: Madness.
• 3:09
  In the Mountains of Madness is the project I know that I want him to do
• 3:12
  the most, and it's never gonna happen.
• 3:16
  But oh, man.
• 3:17
  Ryan: NE working on it, or is that one of those pipe
• 3:20
  Jon: It's
• 3:21
  Kearns: Pipe dream project, yeah.
• 3:22
  They, they've been trying, but no studio wants to go after it
• 3:26
  Ryan: Well, you know, it's a possibility because they're doing a-- know if
• 3:32
  it's like, if they've done it before.
• 3:33
  I think they did it in Russia as the adaptation of Master and
• 3:37
  Margarita, and it's really a book they never really touched on.
• 3:43
  It's, um, from Russia.
• 3:44
  It's about the idea of this author, uh, against communism,
• 3:47
  and the devil and the demons come out during Halloween and havoc.
• 3:53
  But it's the idea of how kinda doing tricks to show people the wrong way
• 3:59
  and, like, how hell is, like, more rehabilitation and the relationship
• 4:03
  between hell and heaven and sin and God.
• 4:07
  It's quite interesting, but the whole theme is communism and
• 4:11
  how should watch its downfall.
• 4:14
  Kearns: Is that the
• 4:14
  Ryan: But-
• 4:15
  Kearns: of, is that the theme of In the Mountains of Madness?
• 4:18
  Ryan: No, but it's a project that took a while for them to get ahold of and to do.
• 4:23
  Kearns: it
• 4:24
  Ryan: know, it's, it's really like a touchy… The book is great, but
• 4:27
  it's a touchy subject to cover, and they did it in Russia in the '50s.
• 4:30
  But to do it now, it's… There's possibilities, my friend.
• 4:34
  That's why.
• 4:35
  Plus I love The
• 4:36
  Kearns: there's a chance.
• 4:37
  He's saying there's a chance
• 4:39
  Ryan: Mikhail is his name, the author?
• 4:41
  The last name Mikhail?
• 4:43
  Mikhail
• 4:44
  Jon: I, I mean, at worst there's always streaming companies that need content
• 4:48
  Kearns: Yeah, but then it's gonna be garbage
• 4:50
  Jon: I mean, Frankenstein wasn't
• 4:52
  Kearns: That's
• 4:53
  Ryan: True
• 4:53
  Kearns: That wasn't just a content grab, that was a trophy grab.
• 4:57
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 4:57
  Ryan: was also cut up
• 4:58
  Kearns: grab the trophy, unfortunately.
• 5:01
  Ryan: If they didn't cut it up and actually left the 30 minutes
• 5:06
  that they did cut out, I think it would've fine for an Academy Award.
• 5:10
  Jon: I mean,
• 5:11
  Ryan: see when they release it
• 5:12
  Jon: uh, we'll see when it's released if that's really the case.
• 5:15
  I mean,
• 5:16
  Ryan: they
• 5:17
  Jon: I, I, I, well, yeah, but I w- I'm gonna trust
• 5:23
  the people who edit for Guillermo del Toro and probably del Toro himself that
• 5:26
  that 30 minutes didn't benefit the movie
• 5:30
  Kearns: I'm gonna probably agree 'cause the bride in "Frankenstein"
• 5:33
  isn't like a women's lib character or anything like that.
• 5:36
  She functions to just further the monster's rage towards Frankenstein.
• 5:41
  I think they established that pretty well in this, in the movie anyway, and
• 5:46
  cutting it didn't hurt the story overall.
• 5:49
  But I haven't seen the 30 minutes.
• 5:52
  It
• 5:52
  Jon: So
• 5:53
  Kearns: 30 minutes of the
• 5:53
  Jon: I, I mean ba- based on that, Ryan, what movie is better with
• 5:58
  30 minutes added back into it?
• 6:03
  Ryan: That's a, that's a good question.
• 6:07
  It, but the thing I never, I never really seen, so I gotta still see
• 6:11
  Apocalypse Now, the final cut, which he adds like an- Yeah no, no, no.
• 6:15
  He did a final cut, which is an extra hour
• 6:18
  Kearns: Aw
• 6:18
  Ryan: footage.
• 6:19
  But, um, I would say only three minutes.
• 6:23
  But I mean, like, there was nothing different of watching Dirty
• 6:27
  Work compared to Dirtier Work.
• 6:30
  It was just, like, a little more inappropriate, which made it even
• 6:33
  better based on the, the style of comedy of Norm Macdonald.
• 6:36
  But
• 6:37
  Kearns: Obsession.
• 6:38
  There was, there was
• 6:39
  Ryan: Ooh, yeah.
• 6:40
  Yeah
• 6:41
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 6:42
  Kearns: and,
• 6:42
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 6:43
  Kearns: it was pretty good.
• 6:45
  Ryan: The
• 6:45
  Jon: But like, yeah, abso- absolutely.
• 6:48
  So like I think there's a big difference between like five or seven minutes
• 6:52
  that's cut to get a rating versus
• 6:55
  Kearns: being goobers
• 6:56
  Jon: 30 minutes that's cut to make a movie flow
• 7:01
  Ryan: I got one.
• 7:02
  I got one,
• 7:03
  Jon: Okay
• 7:04
  Ryan: does make it flow.
• 7:05
  For my comic book fans, Batman versus Superman, the Snyder edition
• 7:12
  because they get more into Doomsday and Krypton and the history,
• 7:16
  Jon: Are you rage baiting me?
• 7:17
  Ryan: fleshes this out.
• 7:18
  No, it just fleshes it out.
• 7:20
  Kearns: though.
• 7:20
  Jon: Are you, are you, are you, are you rage baiting me with Snyder cuts?
• 7:24
  Ryan: No, it just fleshes the story out better, 'cause when I saw it in
• 7:27
  theaters, unless you're a comic book fan who knows the story of Doomsday,
• 7:31
  you already know they messed it up, but you're like, "All right, I get it," while
• 7:34
  other people are like, "What the hell?"
• 7:36
  Kearns: Cut too.
• 7:36
  The Doomsday
• 7:37
  Ryan: Mm-hmm
• 7:38
  Kearns: movie, a three movie buildup, not a, a… It's not
• 7:43
  the S- Avengers Assemble movie.
• 7:45
  Ryan: Mm-hmm.
• 7:45
  Kearns: Loki for a reason, not Thanos.
• 7:49
  That was the mistake they made.
• 7:50
  They were trying to, like, catch up to Marvel.
• 7:52
  Dummies
• 7:54
  Jon: know nothing about your Superman and Batmans and Snyder
• 7:58
  cuts and I didn't even see that one
• 8:01
  Ryan: do you know about Dark Man?
• 8:03
  Jon: Dark Man, yeah, absolutely
• 8:06
  Kearns: Darkman is legit
• 8:08
  Ryan: That-- remake that please, or a
• 8:11
  Jon: No.
• 8:12
  Ryan: please.
• 8:13
  Jon: don't touch Dark Man.
• 8:14
  We don't need to remake anything.
• 8:15
  And while we're at it, while we're at it, that thing you sent
• 8:18
  me about Indy Nevrett, like going and doing a Marvel next, hell no.
• 8:23
  Just keep doing your own thing.
• 8:26
  Stop.
• 8:27
  Ryan: episode
• 8:28
  Jon: I,
• 8:28
  Kearns: $10 million though.
• 8:29
  Jon: I mean, maybe, but like, there's time for that.
• 8:33
  Like, go back and get that later.
• 8:35
  The same with the Curry Barker Texas Chainsaw remake.
• 8:38
  Keep making your own original stuff.
• 8:41
  You don't, you're, like you don't have to follow… You just made the
• 8:45
  biggest hit independent movie ever.
• 8:49
  You can make anything in the world that you've ever thought of.
• 8:54
  Why do Texas Chainsaw again?
• 8:57
  Ryan: Oh, okay.
• 8:57
  I was gonna say
• 8:57
  Kearns: us along, but that message is needed to get out there.
• 8:58
  But now I'm gonna rush us along 'cause we're eight minutes
• 9:02
  Jon: Yes.
• 9:02
  Kearns: six seconds into an episode we haven't talked about yet.
• 9:05
  Speaking of original movies, Labyrinth is a pretty damn original idea.
• 9:10
  What's the setting, John?
• 9:12
  Jon: So it's 1944 Spain, near a region called Navarre or Navarra, which is in…
• 9:21
  Kearns: the bar
• 9:22
  Jon: Yes, yes, exactly like Dave Navarro.
• 9:26
  So, it's in a region of Spain that's right near Basque Country, and I mean,
• 9:33
  you, maybe you don't, I didn't know a whole lot about this before I sat
• 9:36
  down and read about it the other day.
• 9:38
  the Basques were really still holdouts against Francisco Franco
• 9:45
  and his fascist regime that took over right before the start of World
• 9:51
  War II during the Spanish Civil War.
• 9:53
  They ran the communists and socialists out and replaced them with fascists,
• 9:59
  which, you know, fa- anywhere there's fascists and communists
• 10:03
  in history, they don't get along.
• 10:05
  Ryan: No
• 10:06
  Jon: the Basques continued to fight, the Basques and the Catalans in
• 10:10
  particular, continued to fight Franco.
• 10:14
  and that's where we're, are in this movie.
• 10:16
  we're somewhere near Navarre, which is near the Basque territory, and you get
• 10:23
  the guerrilla warfare fighting against Franco's soldiers trying to eradicate it.
• 10:28
  Kearns: fight each other like that.
• 10:31
  Jon: Always gotta throw the feces
• 10:33
  Kearns: It's terrible,
• 10:34
  Ryan: There's just, there's
• 10:35
  Jon: Still
• 10:37
  Kearns: So
• 10:38
  Ryan: it, I was gonna say, it sets the tone right from like the opening where,
• 10:43
  you know, even before where you, before you get into the whole Spain thing,
• 10:47
  you get the whole fairytale story, and it jumps into this like gothic
• 10:51
  horror tone with the music and this like, I wanna say this charming but
• 10:58
  scary melody playing in the background.
• 11:01
  Kearns: The
• 11:01
  Ryan: it
• 11:02
  Kearns: is a huge part of why this movie is great
• 11:04
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 11:05
  Ryan: It just, like, even watching it today, like, it gives me goosebumps.
• 11:09
  It's not like a Nightmare on Elm Street goosebumps if you're in the Freddy song,
• 11:12
  but it's like a good goosebump where it's like you're going on for this great ride.
• 11:18
  you know Yeah, it's like you can trust.
• 11:21
  Like, I love it, in fact, when you can trust a director, and I only have a
• 11:25
  few directors I trust where I can just, like, sit there and be comfortable,
• 11:28
  and Del Toro is one of those directors.
• 11:31
  Kearns: And alternate worlds, whatever the genre is, there's subgenre for it,
• 11:34
  is definitely something this fits in.
• 11:36
  Another one of my favorite movies is Spirited Away parallels Pan's Labyrinth
• 11:40
  very well, except for the ending.
• 11:43
  Ryan: it away.
• 11:44
  Kearns: yeah, Spirited Away is, yeah, Ghibli,
• 11:46
  Ryan: It, it is Gimli.
• 11:47
  Kearns: is,
• 11:48
  Ryan: It's called it
• 11:48
  Kearns: ama- an outstanding movie.
• 11:49
  Another one where the, child is thrust into adventure on her own.
• 11:52
  It's a bildungsroman, same style concept.
• 11:55
  I don't know if Pan's is a bildungsroman though.
• 11:58
  Uh, but there's certainly the adventure part.
• 12:00
  I mean, it can be if you d- how it… depends on how you interpret
• 12:02
  the end, but we'll get to that.
• 12:05
  Um,
• 12:06
  Ryan: Yeah
• 12:06
  Kearns: get Mercedes from Y Tu Mama Tambien playing Mom, and, we have Ophelia,
• 12:12
  our main character, the little girl.
• 12:14
  And unfortunately for Ophelia, Mom is marrying the worst guy ever
• 12:21
  Jon: Yeah.
• 12:22
  Ryan: is
• 12:23
  Jon: the captain is probably the most ruthless villain we've
• 12:28
  talked about on, on this show
• 12:32
  Ryan: I get sec-- I
• 12:33
  Kearns: thinking about real life sort of stuff,
• 12:35
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 12:37
  I was gonna
• 12:38
  Jon: Bleak
• 12:38
  Ryan: kind of holds a candle on that, just
• 12:41
  Jon: Bear,
• 12:41
  Kearns: Bear
• 12:42
  Jon: Bear's a g- a,
• 12:44
  Ryan: He, that
• 12:45
  Jon: not, he's not ruthless though
• 12:47
  Kearns: of the frigging episode.
• 12:48
  No, you're wrong.
• 12:49
  We're
• 12:49
  Jon: He, he's not, he's not ruthless.
• 12:52
  He, he, he's, he's a loser.
• 12:55
  He's a loser villain.
• 12:57
  Yeah, he's a loser villain
• 12:59
  Kearns: in his ineptitude
• 13:01
  Jon: The captain is just like, and that like, it, it gives you that little
• 13:07
  hint into where Franco and his regime was aligned in World War II, that they
• 13:14
  definitely, despite, you know, being non-belligerents, were more in line with
• 13:19
  things that Germany and Italy were doing than they were with what the Allies
• 13:24
  were governmentally and societally
• 13:28
  Kearns: They just weren't a huge factor, so we weren't in there.
• 13:31
  Jon: Yeah, they…
• 13:32
  Kearns: weren't a big problem, so we didn't put manpower
• 13:34
  Jon: Yeah, I mean, they, their civil war ended in '39 at, you know,
• 13:38
  and World War II starts in '39.
• 13:40
  They're not in a real shape to be involved.
• 13:44
  And, there, you know, in the reading about this, there are scholars
• 13:47
  that say, "Well, Franco was making outrageous demands of Hitler because
• 13:51
  he didn't wanna join the war."
• 13:53
  And I don't know, I think he was making outrageous demands of Hitler because
• 13:57
  he wanted outrageous things for Spain.
• 13:59
  Kearns: Yeah.
• 14:00
  I think you're probably right about
• 14:01
  Ryan: See you there
• 14:02
  Kearns: He and Mussolini were more closely related in their, like, paper,
• 14:05
  or like… Yeah, I guess paper tough guy
• 14:08
  Jon: Yeah
• 14:08
  Kearns: roles.
• 14:09
  big in their countries, but world stage jokes kind of thing.
• 14:12
  So that establishes the real world's, you know, issue, and then we get the folklore.
• 14:19
  Then we get the folklore, the magic of the movie.
• 14:22
  the first magical thing Ofelia sees in the movie, Ryan saw it today, so he'll know
• 14:28
  Ryan: when she picks up the stone, she puts the stone back
• 14:31
  in, and the bug comes out.
• 14:33
  Kearns: Bug
• 14:33
  Ryan: It's very, it's, I, I, I, it looks like a caterpillar, like, you know,
• 14:37
  Jiminy Cricket, something like that.
• 14:39
  But you have that magical essence how it follows her and trails her, and
• 14:44
  you know that's, there's something special building right there.
• 14:47
  And then especially when it… Well, I don't wanna get to that part yet.
• 14:51
  I'll rewind, is when sh- they get to the house, the captain's
• 14:54
  house, the property and all that.
• 14:56
  She finds the path to the labyrinth, which is already mystical.
• 15:02
  And I, again, Gothic horror, I said it earlier, that, like, that Gothic
• 15:06
  theme that's throughout it is just awesome, the architecture and everything
• 15:12
  Kearns: we have the fairy.
• 15:14
  we immediately get the fairy, which is the bug.
• 15:17
  'Cause you see the bug be a bug, and you see the bug be a fairy.
• 15:21
  And it immed- that also is cool for the viewer because you get
• 15:24
  to decide, is it a real bug?
• 15:26
  Is it a real fairy?
• 15:28
  it immediately puts the question in your mind, which sorta sets the tone for the
• 15:31
  big question at the end of the movie, too.
• 15:34
  and then there's the faun, which is our next big, big character in the movie.
• 15:39
  The faun is cool.
• 15:41
  Ryan: he is
• 15:42
  Kearns: The faun is cool.
• 15:45
  but there was always some sort of discussion about why it was
• 15:48
  a faun instead of Pan, a satyr.
• 15:52
  So why wasn't it correct mythological beast?
• 15:58
  Ryan: I would think it's to throw viewers off, 'cause like
• 16:03
  you would think i- i- it's
• 16:05
  Kearns: You're giving the viewers a lot of credit
• 16:08
  Ryan: Well
• 16:09
  Kearns: what everybody thinks is the same animal or
• 16:11
  Ryan: I have h- I, I have high, I have high hopes because, like, like
• 16:15
  a thin line, like thinking about when I first watch it, when you see
• 16:19
  the faun, it's like, is he good?
• 16:21
  Is he bad?
• 16:22
  'Cause usually fauns and, like, how he's attired basically is not a good creature.
• 16:29
  They're tricksters and malevolent, and kinda like at that crossroads.
• 16:35
  That's the proper word
• 16:38
  Kearns: Yeah, I guess you're right.
• 16:40
  By the way, I had to correct myself in episode correction 'cause I just rem- I
• 16:44
  was like, "Pan's not a satyr." isn't a satyr, but satyrs are the same makeup.
• 16:48
  They are half goat, half men.
• 16:50
  Jon: Hmm.
• 16:50
  Mm-hmm.
• 16:52
  Kearns: is not called a satyr 'cause he's a, god.
• 16:54
  so with the faun, with regard to the faun, I th- so, well, before we move
• 16:59
  past it too much, the title, they…
• 17:01
  People think the title's a misnomer, and it is 'cause it's not Pan's labyrinth.
• 17:07
  It's the faun's labyrinth, really.
• 17:09
  So did they say Pan's Labyrinth because the audience would like it?
• 17:14
  It does have a nice ring to it.
• 17:15
  It's a great title.
• 17:17
  Or was it a translation error?
• 17:19
  What do you guys think?
• 17:21
  Jon: It's translation.
• 17:23
  I think it's something that goes away in translation
• 17:27
  Kearns: You might be right about that.
• 17:29
  I think that's a translation error in Guillermo del Toro's favor because I
• 17:34
  Ryan: Yes
• 17:34
  Kearns: The Labyrinth of the Faun or The Faun's Labyrinth wouldn't
• 17:37
  have been nearly as, like, pop
• 17:40
  Ryan: Would, would you have gone to see it?
• 17:42
  Like, if you just heard the title not knowing the director
• 17:45
  Kearns: upon Pan's Labyrinth, um, when it came out.
• 17:48
  I had no pri- it was one of the best movies I've ever experienced,
• 17:51
  and it enhanced the experience by not knowing anything about it
• 17:54
  Ryan: But if you saw it as Fauns Labyrinth
• 17:57
  Kearns: I have gone to see it?
• 17:57
  Probably not.
• 18:00
  Jon: I would have seen it anyway.
• 18:02
  Kearns: Yeah
• 18:02
  Jon: g- e- because th- those trailers sold that movie real hard for me.
• 18:08
  Kearns: Oh,
• 18:08
  Jon: I, I went, yeah, I went and saw it in theaters, so
• 18:12
  Ryan: I
• 18:13
  Jon: it
• 18:13
  Ryan: trailers were everywhere
• 18:15
  Kearns: But the folklore, of the movie really, you've got
• 18:17
  two, sort of areas of it.
• 18:18
  You have the actual allusions to folklore and Greek mythology and
• 18:22
  things like that with the faun.
• 18:24
  The faun is like a chaotic neutral sort of character.
• 18:27
  They don't really root for you or against you, they just sort of are,
• 18:31
  and you have to navigate them like
• 18:32
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 18:33
  Kearns: or something like that.
• 18:34
  The faun is there, how do you deal with the faun?
• 18:36
  That kind of thing.
• 18:37
  In this case, he acts as a guide for Ophelia as she's going through
• 18:42
  this experience, and the experience is dealing with the horrors of the
• 18:45
  post-Spanish Civil War and the captain
• 18:48
  Jon: as we mentioned, the captain is a ruthless dude.
• 18:50
  You know, he is determined to root out the guerrillas at the expense of really any of
• 18:56
  the locals, as, you know, evidenced by two innocent rabbit hunters who are brought
• 19:04
  in… Yeah, that, that's a rough one.
• 19:06
  You know, especially,
• 19:08
  Ryan: it
• 19:08
  Jon: especially when you realize that, when it's determined
• 19:12
  that they are just hunters
• 19:18
  Il n'existe
• 19:18
  Ryan: like, I f- I feel like I was thinking of Zorro from the 50s, the
• 19:22
  Disney one, when like the Captain Garcia makes a mistake when he's
• 19:27
  like, "You should look in your, look in the bag more. Like go deeper in
• 19:30
  the bag," and he pulls out the rabbit
• 19:33
  Kearns: Oh
• 19:34
  Ryan: after he like unalives both of them
• 19:36
  Kearns: Both
• 19:36
  Jon: Wait
• 19:37
  Kearns: and both have Spanish people.
• 19:40
  I get the connection now.
• 19:42
  Are you doing that all night?
• 19:45
  Jon: See, I don't, I don't think it would've mattered to the captain anyway.
• 19:48
  I don't think he felt any remorse in it.
• 19:50
  Kearns: no,
• 19:51
  Jon: "Eh,
• 19:51
  Ryan: the captain didn't?
• 19:52
  No
• 19:52
  Jon: no, whatever.
• 19:53
  Kearns: line.
• 19:54
  Jon: Yeah,
• 19:55
  Kearns: Yeah.
• 19:55
  So
• 19:56
  Jon: Look, this is what, this is what I'll do.
• 19:58
  This is how far I'm willing to take this."
• 20:01
  Kearns: Yep.
• 20:03
  it doesn't take Ophelia or her mother very long to establish the fact that he
• 20:06
  is a very dangerous man, and that's part of her… That's, like, her inception
• 20:11
  journey into, into labyrinth and the faun's world is because of that danger.
• 20:17
  She needs to build up ways to, to get through that, to
• 20:22
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 20:24
  Yep
• 20:24
  Ryan: feel the mother
• 20:28
  Sorry, I was gonna say you don't feel the mother is, is clouded?
• 20:32
  'Cause I feel like she sees these horrible things and she's like, I guess she's
• 20:36
  thinking for the best for Ophelia based on what the captain can offer, based
• 20:40
  on money and protection and all that.
• 20:42
  So like, I feel like wouldn't you think she's a little more
• 20:45
  clouded from the whole thing?
• 20:47
  Jon: I, I think she's not really fully aware of it because, you
• 20:52
  know, she's pregnant and not a particularly healthy pregnancy.
• 20:58
  So they, I,
• 20:59
  Kearns: sickness
• 21:00
  Jon: yeah, I think she just has other things on her mind and isn't really
• 21:06
  capturing the full extent of the captain.
• 21:08
  'Cause I, you know, they met in a different place, in a different,
• 21:13
  like him in a different role.
• 21:14
  Maybe he's way, was way more charming, you know, in a, a town atmosphere where he's
• 21:20
  not in charge of eliminating guerrillas
• 21:23
  Kearns: Were you kind of going with it with the in- the infirm state she's
• 21:28
  in makes her, like, clouded about?
• 21:30
  I think that the infirm state… I think she's aware of it, but
• 21:33
  the infirm state makes it so that she can't do anything about it.
• 21:37
  Jon: I think she becomes a witch
• 21:38
  Kearns: Ophelia do, like, do the best she can, but she knows…
• 21:42
  I mean, she's a woman at that time with that kind of guy.
• 21:46
  There's not- she knows there's nothing she can
• 21:48
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 21:49
  Yeah, I, I think she becomes more aware.
• 21:53
  Kearns: Yeah
• 21:53
  Jon: mean, even, even right up to her end, she's kind of just going along
• 21:59
  with what the captain wants her to do.
• 22:02
  Kearns: Mm-hmm.
• 22:02
  Jon: You know, and, you know, with the mandrake, which we'll talk about later on
• 22:08
  Kearns: Yeah, she's not a guardian to Ophelia very much in this movie.
• 22:11
  Ophelia is very much so on her own in a lot of aspects, and she's the hero
• 22:16
  Ryan: What about Mercedes?
• 22:17
  Jon: Yeah, I mean, Mercedes,
• 22:18
  Ryan: supporting her a little bit
• 22:20
  Jon: the back half of the movie Mercedes becomes an ally to a degree as much as
• 22:26
  Mercedes is available to be because she has a whole lot other things going on too
• 22:32
  Ryan: Which her character is interesting 'cause she, as much
• 22:34
  as she wants to help, she's more into her own agenda, which I like.
• 22:38
  You don't see that a, a lot in, like,
• 22:40
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 22:40
  Ryan: movies, and this is only, it's 2006 years old.
• 22:44
  Thinking this movie's 20 years old now, it's, like, crazy.
• 22:47
  Kearns: Oh, it
• 22:47
  Ryan: But it's like, well, you can see the differences even now from 2006, like
• 22:52
  the whole idea when it was like '95, '96, and we're like, remember the, like,
• 22:55
  the big differences of the '70s, and now you can say it's the same thing now from
• 23:00
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 23:00
  Ryan: to 2006, and they're very noticeable
• 23:03
  Kearns: Mercedes as a character might be the fawn.
• 23:06
  There's a theory that
• 23:07
  Ryan: Oh
• 23:08
  Kearns: a double this
• 23:09
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 23:10
  Kearns: The bug, the fairy, Mercedes, the fawn, um, Pale Man, and the captain.
• 23:16
  Uh, I don't know who the toad might be, but we could probably
• 23:18
  figure somebody out pretty easily.
• 23:20
  The Mandrake wouldn't have a double because he's not a person.
• 23:23
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 23:24
  Kearns: yeah, like each one of those things because of the idea that
• 23:29
  everything is a fantasy in this movie.
• 23:30
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 23:31
  Kearns: as well get that out of the way now.
• 23:32
  There's an idea that everything is a concoction, biophilia, be able to handle
• 23:37
  this experience because it's incredibly traumatic and she's a young girl.
• 23:41
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 23:42
  Kearns: and so it's almost like the championing of the child's imagination
• 23:46
  over evil, which is really how I see this movie, why I find it to be so beautiful.
• 23:52
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 23:52
  Mm-hmm.
• 23:53
  Kearns: Yeah.
• 23:54
  I was kinda hoping to drop that dime at about minute 50, I'll
• 23:57
  get it out of the way now I guess
• 23:59
  Ryan: No, that was awesome.
• 24:00
  It, it
• 24:00
  Jon: But
• 24:01
  Ryan: sense
• 24:02
  Jon: yeah, and I ju- just to like circle back to Mercedes a little bit
• 24:06
  too is she is in no way obligated to help Ophelia, but when she makes
• 24:14
  her decision that she has to get out of there, she goes for Ophelia.
• 24:18
  Like, that's not even a question.
• 24:20
  She risks her own escape to try to get Ophelia out
• 24:25
  Kearns: Mm-hmm Which would make her diverge from the fawn a bit,
• 24:28
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 24:29
  Kearns: wouldn't do that.
• 24:31
  Ryan: the f- the fawn, the fawn skedaddled a couple of times.
• 24:35
  just like, "Deuces." I feel like
• 24:37
  Kearns: stern with her a few times too.
• 24:39
  He's, he's, he can be a mean faun
• 24:42
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 24:43
  Ryan: I think Mercedes got a little bit of the sternness, especially when the, like,
• 24:45
  she's c- when they have to go and stuff.
• 24:47
  But I also feel like the only reason why she gets pushed to that limit is
• 24:50
  she knows what the captain can do.
• 24:52
  Jon: Yeah
• 24:53
  Ryan: the fact that, um, her mom is basically, spoilers, um, becomes unalive
• 25:00
  eventually in the movie, and I feel like she's gotta help her, you know?
• 25:04
  She feels, I feel like she's in a corner at that point 'cause she,
• 25:07
  uh, everything that can happen
• 25:12
  Jon: Yeah.
• 25:14
  Yeah
• 25:15
  Kearns: We may have talked this, this talking point down to its bones.
• 25:19
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 25:19
  Ryan: just, it's, it's a great movie.
• 25:21
  I mean, it's just like a lot to, like, unbox with it.
• 25:24
  Kearns: Do you
• 25:25
  Ryan: It's like a mystery box.
• 25:27
  Yes, based on all the work he's put into it and just the time, the money, October
• 25:33
  9th, premiere day, yes, sign me up
• 25:37
  Kearns: Brian's describing is the very real Pan's Labyrinth
• 25:40
  3D re-release that's coming out, um, that took years to produce.
• 25:45
  So
• 25:45
  Ryan: Mm-hmm.
• 25:46
  Kearns: the 3D aspects, but I believe the entire CGI portion
• 25:49
  of the film got a once-over
• 25:52
  Jon: Yeah, I, they, he did.
• 25:54
  I was reading about it, I don't remember all the specifics, but yeah, beyond
• 25:58
  the 3D there's some CGI cleanup, some sound cleanup that he did.
• 26:03
  I mean, it sounds like if you're into the 3D element of it, it's
• 26:08
  gonna be an even better experience
• 26:13
  Ryan: Imagine the fairies coming out to you.
• 26:14
  A lot of the action scenes right in front of your face.
• 26:17
  This is like the eyes
• 26:19
  Jon: I mean
• 26:20
  Kearns: too, like the frog, I really hope they do something with that frog scene
• 26:25
  Jon: Imagine three 3D Pale Man chasing her down the hall
• 26:28
  Ryan: Yeah
• 26:28
  Kearns: scary.
• 26:29
  That's gonna be cool.
• 26:31
  We're gonna go see it.
• 26:32
  We're definitely gonna go see
• 26:33
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 26:33
  Kearns: It's gonna be fun.
• 26:34
  Um
• 26:35
  Jon: It'll be my, my, my first theatrical 3D movie
• 26:39
  Ryan: Really?
• 26:39
  Kearns: it after this episode or you rewatched it before and you re-
• 26:42
  like, "Man, this didn't hold up," remember they put a lot of money into
• 26:45
  the practical effects of that suit.
• 26:48
  Fawn suit was no joke
• 26:50
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 26:51
  Ryan: did.
• 26:51
  But you never seen a 3D movie?
• 26:53
  Jon: Not in theaters, no.
• 26:55
  Ryan: Wow,
• 26:55
  Jon: I've done them at home with the… Yeah, I, I, it's not, it's
• 27:00
  not my favorite cinema trick.
• 27:03
  Ryan: No
• 27:04
  Jon: I'm not super into the 3D
• 27:06
  Ryan: Were you more into the scratch and sniff?
• 27:08
  Jon: No, I, I just like a movie.
• 27:10
  I just,
• 27:11
  Ryan: You
• 27:11
  Jon: just like… I remember, I re- like, I, but like I, I, I go back to
• 27:16
  like there being 3D movies on WPIX during like Halloween, and there'd
• 27:22
  be the 3D glasses in the Daily News.
• 27:24
  That's how you got the 3D glasses.
• 27:27
  You'd buy the Daily News, there'd be f- a couple free pairs of glasses, and
• 27:30
  you'd sit at home with your glasses on, and they worked on other 3D things.
• 27:34
  Like I watched, you know, Jaws in 3D, um, Jaws 3 in 3D.
• 27:39
  I watched Friday the 13th in 3D, but I've never gone to a
• 27:43
  movie theater to see a 3D movie
• 27:45
  Kearns: Yeah
• 27:46
  Ryan: Spy Kids in 3D.
• 27:48
  yeah, that's, yeah
• 27:50
  Kearns: Man, it's pretty awesome.
• 27:51
  I'm not gonna lie.
• 27:52
  We were just talking about Lava Girl.
• 27:55
  What a f-
• 27:56
  Ryan: And Sharkboy?
• 27:56
  Kearns: career she's had.
• 28:02
  Sharkboy didn't
• 28:03
  Ryan: Is that water?
• 28:03
  Kearns: up, ironically enough.
• 28:05
  And, uh, this is one of those things where if you know, you know everybody.
• 28:08
  If you know,
• 28:08
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 28:09
  Ryan: That's not lava there
• 28:10
  Kearns: Full House Easter egg.
• 28:12
  There's a similar Easter egg for Full House.
• 28:14
  Um,
• 28:16
  Ryan: She's in New York
• 28:17
  Kearns: there is the re-release coming.
• 28:18
  They put a lot… Or, uh, GDT put a lot of money into it and a lot of time.
• 28:24
  More time than money.
• 28:25
  And it got, you know, it got, it's the attention of James Cameron.
• 28:29
  There's a lot of people who really love and respect this movie, and I
• 28:32
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 28:32
  Kearns: um, Del Toro wants to give it its re-release so that it can kind of
• 28:37
  become timeless as opposed to people watching it and being like, "Ooh,
• 28:41
  whoa. That scene did not hold up."
• 28:44
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 28:44
  Ryan: Cameron actually put a minimum a- amount of days for him to complete it.
• 28:48
  He was saying that if you do less than 300, we're gonna have a problem.
• 28:51
  You must go over 300 in order to have the perfect film that you want.
• 28:56
  So it was a nice support from Jimmy Cam, you know?
• 28:59
  Jon: Yeah.
• 28:59
  And I mean,
• 29:00
  Ryan: for Aquaman,
• 29:01
  Jon: I, I very much appreciate that he's not using AI to do it
• 29:05
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 29:07
  It was a big speech at, uh, San Diego Comic-Con.
• 29:10
  You-- we sent it to each other.
• 29:11
  I mean, that's like to say, "Hey, screw AI." It's a, it's a big thing,
• 29:17
  especially in the industry where AI is trying to take over everything
• 29:20
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 29:21
  Kearns: by sellout shills, so of
• 29:23
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 29:23
  Kearns: AI thing is getting crazy.
• 29:26
  Jon: Yeah, and, a- and I mean, Pans has to hold a special place in his, in, to
• 29:32
  him, but also really to, to any movie fan because this is re- If you like
• 29:38
  del Toro, this, to me, is the first time you see his full vision on screen.
• 29:46
  Like, you, you see what he can do some in Hellboy and Blade and Mimic, Cronos,
• 29:51
  what- a- anything that came before.
• 29:53
  You saw what he could do, but now he has a budget and his own template to work off.
• 30:00
  You know, the Hellboy creations existed from somebody else.
• 30:05
  He just made them alive.
• 30:08
  The- these are
• 30:09
  Kearns: point
• 30:10
  Jon: his.
• 30:10
  This is his vision, and it's the first time, like, mainstream audiences
• 30:16
  are seeing fully del Toro's visions.
• 30:19
  Kearns: It only took one more for him to get an Academy Award, 'cause
• 30:23
  Ryan: I wish.
• 30:24
  Kearns: Shape of Water, right?
• 30:27
  And a lot of people felt this movie was heavily snubbed.
• 30:30
  I think it was, like, 13 nominations.
• 30:32
  I could be overblowing that, but it
• 30:33
  Ryan: No, no, you're not.
• 30:35
  It was- Good enough
• 30:35
  Kearns: costume
• 30:37
  Ryan: which is shocking 'cause it, it nails everything you would
• 30:40
  think the Academy would want.
• 30:43
  But I mean, like
• 30:43
  Kearns: went Best Foreign Film
• 30:45
  Jon: Oh, I need to look up what did
• 30:48
  Ryan: Oh,
• 30:48
  Kearns: Yeah, we
• 30:49
  Ryan: I'm kinda
• 30:50
  Kearns: 'cause blech.
• 30:52
  Um, it had Best Director, it was up for Best Film or Best Picture.
• 30:57
  It was up for a lot.
• 30:58
  I just don't think the people who were voting on it watched it
• 31:02
  Jon: No, I don't think they did either.
• 31:03
  the winner for Best Foreign Film that year was The Lives of Others,
• 31:08
  a German movie directed by Florian Henckel von Donnersmar- Donnersmark
• 31:15
  Kearns: Well, Donner Schmuck is probably very talented,
• 31:17
  but he didn't win that year.
• 31:19
  Jon: No, I don't think they either
• 31:20
  Kearns: Best Picture that year?
• 31:21
  'Cause I was pissed.
• 31:22
  Like, I,
• 31:23
  Jon: Oh, okay.
• 31:24
  Kearns: that
• 31:24
  Ryan: If we're, if we're talking about the Academy, that was The Departed
• 31:28
  Kearns: Yep.
• 31:28
  That's, that, that one then.
• 31:31
  That one then
• 31:32
  Jon: Pan, I mean, Pan- Pans wasn't nominated for that, and based on,
• 31:36
  Kearns: thought it
• 31:36
  Jon: based on what, based on what was nominated, I think The
• 31:40
  Departed is probably deserving.
• 31:42
  I haven't seen Babel.
• 31:44
  Kearns: And then of
• 31:44
  Jon: I haven't seen,
• 31:45
  Kearns: director.
• 31:46
  Jon: seen The Queen.
• 31:48
  Kearns: Babel's fantastic
• 31:49
  Jon: but it was also Letters From Iwo Jima and Little Miss Sunshine
• 31:54
  Ryan: Little Miss Sunshine's good too
• 31:55
  Kearns: a
• 31:56
  Jon: Little Miss Sunshine is good, but it, it never felt like a best picture
• 32:00
  Ryan: No, absolutely not.
• 32:02
  I think it
• 32:02
  Kearns: in in its place just fine, to be honest with you
• 32:05
  Jon: I think Pants could have slotted in there anywhere.
• 32:07
  And I mean, y- you know, a few years later when they expanded
• 32:10
  the number of nominations, it's pr- it probably does get nominated
• 32:14
  Kearns: Yeah, you're
• 32:14
  Ryan: But how does it be- how does Little Miss Sunshine beat Pan's
• 32:19
  Labyrinth in original screenplay?
• 32:21
  Kearns: Doesn't-- It is
• 32:22
  Ryan: it, it di- it did.
• 32:24
  It did.
• 32:25
  Kearns: it, it shouldn't…
• 32:26
  Ryan: Which is crazy
• 32:28
  Kearns: It just shouldn't.
• 32:28
  It's just not as good of a screenplay.
• 32:30
  It's not as good of a-- I mean, look at the difference in
• 32:32
  Ryan: So
• 32:33
  Kearns: do with Pan's screenplay and Little Miss Sunshine.
• 32:35
  Little Miss Sunshine had a dance number.
• 32:37
  Maybe that's why.
• 32:38
  Ryan: It's a feel-good.
• 32:39
  That's, that's where it gets to.
• 32:41
  It's the feel-good.
• 32:41
  And Pants Lab Rat, I'm gonna be honest, it's not your feel-good, but
• 32:45
  it makes you walk out of the theater
• 32:47
  Kearns: It is
• 32:47
  Ryan: feeling f- like thinking differently and thinking about, yes,
• 32:51
  Kearns: way
• 32:52
  Ryan: it's beautiful.
• 32:53
  Kearns: beautiful
• 32:53
  Jon: Y- y- yeah, you, you finish watching Pans and you're thinking,
• 32:57
  Kearns: Yes,
• 32:58
  Ryan: Yep.
• 32:58
  Jon: the
• 32:59
  Kearns: what I like.
• 33:01
  Jon: And, and I, I mean, I, I li- I like both ways.
• 33:04
  I like walking out of a movie with my brain completely wiped because it was
• 33:07
  just that, like, a wild ride or whatever.
• 33:11
  Or I like, yeah,
• 33:13
  Ryan: Oh,
• 33:14
  Jon: you know, or,
• 33:15
  Kearns: Thunder
• 33:16
  Jon: or walking out, walking out of a movie with my brain open and just
• 33:20
  thinking about that movie for a week
• 33:24
  Kearns: Yeah.
• 33:24
  Makes you really contemplate everything a little bit more for
• 33:27
  some- just because you experienced it.
• 33:30
  Even when you're not thinking of it, your,
• 33:32
  Jon: Yeah.
• 33:32
  Kearns: is open
• 33:33
  Jon: And that's what this whole week has been with Pans again.
• 33:36
  Like, I watched it again on Monday, and I haven't really watched a movie since.
• 33:41
  Like, uh, you know, we've had some movies on that, but I haven't necessarily
• 33:45
  paid attention to them as much 'cause I've been thinking about Pans
• 33:50
  Kearns: Yeah.
• 33:51
  Ryan: I was a clean slate
• 33:53
  Kearns: sometimes I like to bungee them when I rewatch Pan's
• 33:55
  and then I watch Spirited Away.
• 33:57
  But what I did when I was deep diving into Pan's a little bit for this episode,
• 34:01
  I found a few other movies that are very similar in their… not the spirit theme
• 34:08
  of the movie, but their tone and having a mytho- um, sort of a mythological
• 34:13
  edge to them or a folklore edge.
• 34:15
  One of them is, uh, The Killing of the Sacred Deer is gonna be one that
• 34:18
  I watch very soon because of that.
• 34:21
  It's so… I, I can't believe we haven't talked about it or I don't
• 34:23
  know if you guys have ever seen it.
• 34:25
  Jon: If not.
• 34:26
  Ryan: not yet.
• 34:26
  Kearns: I
• 34:27
  Jon: That was, yes, it's Colin Farrell and, and that's Yorgos Lanthimos
• 34:33
  Kearns: There he is again, that Greek god
• 34:36
  Jon: I haven't, really dug into much of his stuff.
• 34:41
  I think I was looking the other day after you sent the thing
• 34:44
  about Killing of a Sacred Deer.
• 34:46
  Um, I think the only thing I've seen is Begonia
• 34:49
  Kearns: Yeah.
• 34:51
  Yep.
• 34:52
  that point, killing of the sacred deer, by the way, the allusion for that, since
• 34:56
  The Odyssey's out, I might as well mention it, is, uh, that's what Agamemnon, uh,
• 35:00
  in the actual story of the, uh, was it even The Iliad where he gets killed?
• 35:05
  Agamemnon's killed by his wife for
• 35:07
  Ryan: Yes
• 35:09
  Kearns: daughter, and he had to kill his daughter because
• 35:10
  he killed Artemis' sacred deer.
• 35:14
  So it was a life for a life.
• 35:16
  Ryan: Okay.
• 35:16
  Kearns: had to give a life because he took a life.
• 35:18
  That was his
• 35:18
  Ryan: Yeah, I think it's the Iliad.
• 35:21
  Kearns: is The Iliad?
• 35:22
  Ryan: I-- Yeah, 'cause I don't remember that happening in the Odyssey
• 35:24
  Kearns: He was probably already presumed dead for
• 35:27
  Ryan: Yeah
• 35:28
  Kearns: anyway.
• 35:28
  And then in the movie The Odyssey, they, they like to, you
• 35:30
  know, there's Agamemnon Chad.
• 35:32
  You've seen him in all the memes, I'm sure.
• 35:34
  And they, they change why he dies.
• 35:38
  They change… That's one of the things when I watched the movie
• 35:40
  and I said, "Wow, they, they really took some liberties and, but they
• 35:43
  really worked. It was a great movie."
• 35:45
  challenged me immediately, was like, "What do you mean they changed?
• 35:48
  It's exactly the same." I was like, "But it's not, though.
• 35:50
  It's not exactly the same.
• 35:51
  He changed, like, tons of stuff." Um,
• 35:54
  Ryan: his own vision
• 35:55
  Kearns: exactly.
• 35:56
  It was fine.
• 35:57
  Agamemnon's killed by his wife in that one because he kills his
• 35:59
  daughter to have favorable odds.
• 36:01
  Actually, I think in the movie they say winds to get to Troy.
• 36:05
  Like, bro,
• 36:06
  Ryan: Okay
• 36:06
  Kearns: gonna blow.
• 36:07
  Winds be blowing.
• 36:08
  But anyway, that movie built on the same concepts, and once you're
• 36:12
  seeing what the movie's about, that, like, kinda hits harder.
• 36:14
  It's pretty cool.
• 36:15
  And there's definitely a supernatural edge, so we definitely have to watch that
• 36:18
  You guys wanna play a game?
• 36:21
  Jon: I mean, I'm down for a game.
• 36:22
  I have one.
• 36:23
  I have a new one,
• 36:25
  Kearns: Oh, no
• 36:26
  Jon: a new format.
• 36:27
  We, it, the, I, I think this is gonna be a fun one.
• 36:32
  I think it's one you're not gonna terribly regret your decisions at the end of it,
• 36:36
  and it's one I can participate in, too.
• 36:39
  Kearns: Yay.
• 36:40
  Jon: So our game, tonight for this episode is going to be called Live, Visit, or Nuke
• 36:51
  I'm gonna present three locations, three movie loc-
• 36:55
  Kearns: No
• 36:55
  Jon: three movies, three universes, three towns, three whatever, and you have to
• 37:00
  decide if you would like to live there, just visit, or nuke the whole place.
• 37:08
  And this is… It's kind of in the theme of FMK.
• 37:12
  For those of you who know what FMK stands for or have played, we are, uh…
• 37:18
  That's what we're looking for here.
• 37:19
  So we'll start easy.
• 37:23
  Live, visit or nuke the world of Pan's, the world of Frankenstein,
• 37:30
  or the world of Pacific Rim?
• 37:33
  Kearns: Ooh
• 37:37
  Ryan: Hmm.
• 37:39
  Kearns: Ooh.
• 37:41
  All right.
• 37:42
  gonna visit Frankenstein's world
• 37:45
  Jon: Okay
• 37:46
  Kearns: I'm gonna visit Frankenstein's world.
• 37:47
  I'm actually, I might live there.
• 37:49
  Nah, I'm gonna live there because it doesn't mean I have
• 37:50
  to live with Frankenstein.
• 37:52
  I'm, I'm just in the world, so I'm just living in Victorian era wherever.
• 37:56
  It's gonna suck
• 37:59
  Jon: of where Frankenstein is.
• 38:01
  Kearns: Oh, okay.
• 38:01
  So
• 38:02
  Jon: You're not, like, on the other side of the world
• 38:04
  Kearns: So there's a chance he could like tear my head off or
• 38:06
  Jon: Yeah, I mean, I mean, there's a chance,
• 38:08
  Ryan: him
• 38:08
  Jon: there's a chance you encounter him
• 38:11
  Kearns: Okay.
• 38:12
  I'm still gonna go with that over Kaiju.
• 38:15
  And keep in mind, the people who are protecting you in Pacific Rim
• 38:19
  are like the people who barely graduated from high school.
• 38:23
  They're like the first string varsity football players put in
• 38:26
  giant robots making decisions that would, may win or lose the world.
• 38:31
  I have a feeling that, to me, that would be the most horrific world to
• 38:33
  live in, would be the Pacific Rim one.
• 38:36
  Jon: So you're getting a new Pacific Rim?
• 38:37
  Kearns: I'm definitely nuking Pacific Rim.
• 38:40
  Visiting it… No, visiting it would suck, too.
• 38:43
  And then what was our third one again?
• 38:45
  Jon: Pens
• 38:45
  Ryan: icon
• 38:46
  Kearns: Yeah, I'll visit Pan's.
• 38:49
  but that means I c- like I get to visit the fantasy portion, right?
• 38:54
  Jon: You get to visit that whole world.
• 38:55
  Yep.
• 38:56
  Kearns: Okay.
• 38:57
  Yeah.
• 38:58
  Jon: You might meet the captain
• 38:59
  Kearns: get to M- Mercedes, and we'll get a little guidance, and we'll
• 39:03
  head down to the, to the labyrinth
• 39:06
  Jon: I mean, you, you might meet the pa- the captain too.
• 39:09
  Kearns: I might, but
• 39:10
  Jon: You might meet the pale man
• 39:12
  Kearns: I might.
• 39:14
  But it's just a visit.
• 39:17
  Jon: Ryan, where are you going?
• 39:18
  Ryan: I'm going the same way, um, to live in Frankenstein's world.
• 39:22
  If, as long as I avoid him, Vic- the Victorian time would be amazing
• 39:26
  to live and just experience, especially how, del Toro signifies
• 39:31
  in his, uh, version of Frankenstein.
• 39:34
  Pan's Labyrinth I'd visit, like, just to get a taste, but
• 39:38
  be able to escape if I have to.
• 39:39
  Don't wanna run into the captain.
• 39:41
  And then new Pacific Rim, it's just, those creatures have to go
• 39:48
  Jon: Okay.
• 39:48
  I'm, I'm g- I'm nuking P- Pacific Rim 'cause no chance, no chance
• 39:52
  you're surviving that.
• 39:54
  Kearns: Yay.
• 39:54
  Ryan: I could say pan
• 39:55
  Jon: Like, uh, not knowing when
• 40:01
  a freaking kaiju is gonna pop out of the ocean and attack you, forget it.
• 40:07
  Forgetting who's even defending me, just that concept is a big nope.
• 40:13
  Ryan: What, Jack Teller?
• 40:14
  Kearns: anxiety we have today
• 40:16
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 40:17
  Kearns: without Kaiju.
• 40:18
  Jon: Yeah.
• 40:19
  Kearns: thank you
• 40:19
  Jon: Yeah.
• 40:20
  I'm gonna, visit Frankenstein 'cause that, that's a world that would be
• 40:25
  kinda cool, but I'm not, not super into living there, and I, I'll live in vans.
• 40:32
  Kearns: know?
• 40:32
  Jon: he said that's exactly what it comes down to for me.
• 40:35
  I've thought about traveling back in time quite often lately, and I only
• 40:40
  wanna go as far back as indoor plumbing
• 40:43
  Ryan: Just jump in the lake
• 40:45
  Kearns: You're gonna need a lot of lakes.
• 40:47
  Ryan: Just…
• 40:48
  Kearns: You need a lot of lakes.
• 40:49
  I
• 40:50
  Ryan: Sorry
• 40:50
  Kearns: get by without a bidet anymore.
• 40:53
  Once you've, once you've started living that life, you're never going back.
• 40:57
  You're never
• 40:57
  Ryan: I don't have the luxury, sir
• 40:59
  Kearns: mean, I, it-- I have a, I think it's a $60 toilet attachment
• 41:04
  Ryan: It's a triple Lindy shu- Oh, I can't say that.
• 41:08
  It's a tri- It's, it's, it's a triple Lindy gusher right there
• 41:13
  Kearns: I get that reference 'cause Robert, uh, Rodney Dangerfield was a turd.
• 41:20
  That's the connection.
• 41:21
  Ryan: This cat no respect
• 41:22
  Kearns: No respect for him.
• 41:24
  All
• 41:24
  Jon: I tell you.
• 41:25
  All right, next one.
• 41:26
  Kearns: next one?
• 41:28
  Jon: We're gonna go Woodsboro, Haddonfield, or Springwood
• 41:36
  Kearns: Woodsboro, Haddonfield, or Springwood
• 41:40
  Ryan: Bringing what?
• 41:41
  Oh, Elm Street.
• 41:45
  Ugh
• 41:46
  Kearns: Woodsboro.
• 41:47
  Woodsboro.
• 41:47
  Oh
• 41:50
  Jon: Great
• 41:51
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 41:52
  Yeah, I know how I'm doing this.
• 41:55
  Jon: Go ahead
• 41:56
  Ryan: So
• 41:57
  Kearns: Yeah, let's hear this
• 41:57
  Ryan: I would nuke… Sorry, Freddy, I would nuke S- um, Spring- Springwood?
• 42:03
  Springwood?
• 42:03
  I always call it, uh… I'd nuke Springwood, get the
• 42:05
  nightmares out of there.
• 42:07
  Um, just, just eliminate that.
• 42:09
  I would visit Haddonfield.
• 42:10
  Being a Halloween fan, visit would be fine.
• 42:14
  But would I wanna live there?
• 42:15
  No, because Michael, he's unstoppable.
• 42:19
  he's got a Colt, whether he's just a shape, there's no way of stopping him.
• 42:23
  So a nice visit, but I would live in Woodsboro.
• 42:26
  If anything's can happen, I mean, the Ghostface are human,
• 42:31
  so there's, there's chance.
• 42:33
  Kearns: point.
• 42:34
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 42:35
  Kearns: It's the least supernatural of the three
• 42:40
  That's kinda tough to argue with that logic
• 42:42
  Ryan: Visit Spring… Like, and I was thinking about visiting Springwood,
• 42:49
  but what happens if you fall asleep?
• 42:49
  You're done.
• 42:49
  You're, you're done
• 42:49
  Kearns: I'm gonna, I'm gonna nuke Michael Myers.
• 42:51
  I wonder if that would keep him down.
• 42:53
  And there's no way to know unless you try.
• 42:55
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 42:57
  Ryan: if a hospital fire can't stop him
• 42:59
  Kearns: And I can visit Freddy.
• 43:02
  How long do I have to visit for?
• 43:04
  Ryan: 24 hours
• 43:05
  Kearns: can stay awake for 24 hours.
• 43:07
  I'll visit Freddy
• 43:08
  Jon: no, no, no, no.
• 43:09
  30 day, 30 days.
• 43:11
  It's a 30-day visit.
• 43:12
  It's a month.
• 43:13
  It has to be a r- uh, a s- a, enough time that you could just not sleep for a day
• 43:19
  Ryan: Wait, so 30 days in Haddonfield?
• 43:21
  All right, I would still take that
• 43:23
  Jon: But you obviously your 30 days in Haddonfield has to be in October
• 43:30
  Ryan: Well, I ca- Wait.
• 43:30
  Oh, no, no, that works.
• 43:32
  Ex- exactly.
• 43:32
  So you go from October 1st to
• 43:35
  Jon: October 2nd
• 43:36
  Ryan: That's… Damn it.
• 43:38
  Kearns: Um,
• 43:39
  Ryan: Damn
• 43:39
  Kearns: I mean, you still have a pretty good shot.
• 43:41
  He doesn't take out much of the town population in each
• 43:43
  one of those encounters.
• 43:45
  You still have a pretty good shot.
• 43:46
  I might
• 43:47
  Ryan: Halloween ends, he eliminates the,
• 43:50
  Jon: I mean
• 43:51
  Ryan: town.
• 43:52
  Kearns: eliminates the whole town in that one film
• 43:55
  Ryan: That one scene
• 43:56
  Kearns: very end.
• 43:56
  Uh
• 43:58
  Jon: only because they went after him
• 44:01
  Kearns: True.
• 44:01
  I
• 44:02
  Ryan: He, he went
• 44:04
  Kearns: I would
• 44:04
  Ryan: there
• 44:05
  Kearns: not gonna have that problem 'cause I'm nuking him.
• 44:07
  Uh, and then at that point, Uh, so visit… Yeah, I'm gonna do
• 44:13
  the same as Ryan from there.
• 44:14
  I j- I just switched Nightmare on Elm Street with, with it, so
• 44:18
  Jon: Okay.
• 44:19
  Kearns: that
• 44:20
  Jon: I would nuke Springwood 'cause, I mean, you have to sleep.
• 44:25
  I'm gonna visit Woodsboro.
• 44:29
  I, know enough about horror to, survive Ghostface, I think.
• 44:34
  Uh, you know, I think I know the rules.
• 44:36
  I can, I can dodge that enough.
• 44:40
  Um, and I'm gonna live in Haddonfield because you only
• 44:43
  have one night a year to survive.
• 44:46
  I'm not a babysitter.
• 44:47
  I'm not gonna be running around the streets on Halloween night.
• 44:53
  You keep the doors closed, you pull the shades, you don't answer
• 44:55
  for trick-or-treaters, which, you know, is perfect for me anyway.
• 45:00
  That's where I am.
• 45:01
  I'll live in Haddonfield.
• 45:03
  Ryan: Fair
• 45:04
  Jon: A- all right.
• 45:05
  Next one, we're going to camp
• 45:10
  The Burning, Friday the 13th, or Sleepaway Camp
• 45:18
  Which camp?
• 45:21
  Kearns: Burning would be the funniest.
• 45:22
  Ryan: Yeah
• 45:24
  Kearns: Uh, I'm gonna visit the burning.
• 45:27
  I'm gonna nuke Friday the 13th, I don't know if I wanna
• 45:31
  live in any of these, though.
• 45:33
  I don't wanna live in any of these.
• 45:35
  First of all, I never wanted to go to, like, sleepaway camp as a kid.
• 45:38
  I went to wrestling camp.
• 45:39
  I didn't go to sleepaway camp.
• 45:41
  Jon: Like I hated camp
• 45:42
  Kearns: Yeah, I didn't go to camp.
• 45:43
  I was a, a feral street child growing up.
• 45:46
  We never went to camp.
• 45:47
  Camp costs money.
• 45:48
  drank out of hoses during the summer, sirs.
• 45:51
  Uh, yeah, I'm gonna have to go with that, though.
• 45:54
  Sleepaway camp is where I'll live.
• 45:55
  I gotta nuke, I gotta nuke Silver Lake, man.
• 45:59
  Crystal
• 46:00
  Ryan: Ah.
• 46:01
  Hmm.
• 46:01
  I'd nuke sleepaway camp.
• 46:04
  Kearns: Really?
• 46:04
  Ryan: I would nuke it.
• 46:06
  Yeah, I just, I don't like the owner, creepy old owner.
• 46:11
  The creepy old owner, you know?
• 46:14
  Just the
• 46:15
  Kearns: better shorts.
• 46:16
  Sleepaway has much better shorts
• 46:19
  Ryan: Yeah, I don't wanna wear the shorts.
• 46:21
  Kearns: You
• 46:21
  Ryan: I don't wanna do that.
• 46:22
  I don't wanna do that.
• 46:23
  But
• 46:23
  Kearns: you'd be around all those dirty danglers, you know?
• 46:26
  Ryan: F-fair on that.
• 46:27
  Don't go near the soup.
• 46:28
  I'm… Stay, don't…
• 46:31
  Kearns: reference.
• 46:32
  "Fight Club."
• 46:34
  Ryan: I was talking about sleepaway camp, but yes, that one is in, that one's
• 46:37
  Jon: Yeah.
• 46:37
  Ryan: one's in
• 46:38
  Jon: Lots of soup
• 46:40
  Ryan: yeah, pots of soup.
• 46:42
  But, uh, I would visit Friday the 13th, I mean, for 30 days.
• 46:46
  Again, just one day, Friday the 13th.
• 46:49
  You just go through the whole day, and then you got the rest
• 46:51
  to recover, and it's all right.
• 46:53
  And I'd live in The Burning.
• 46:54
  I feel like that, that's a lot of fun.
• 46:57
  I mean, from watching the movie, I feel like those are the most normal of the
• 47:01
  counselors you've ever seen, besides the first or second Friday the 13th film,
• 47:06
  Kearns: Mm-hmm
• 47:07
  Ryan: each one has their own caricature.
• 47:09
  Like they went with the whole Nightmare on Elm Street, where if, like the
• 47:13
  Dream Warriors, you have your own personality, and they just furthered
• 47:18
  that in the Friday the 13th similarities.
• 47:21
  But that's what I would do
• 47:23
  Jon: Okay.
• 47:24
  Kearns: right
• 47:25
  Jon: I'm gonna, nuke the burning
• 47:30
  Because he's, he's the most indiscriminate of these killers.
• 47:35
  He- Cropsey's not even at the killing at the same camp where he was victimized.
• 47:41
  He's just randomly out getting people.
• 47:44
  So that can get nuked.
• 47:46
  I think I'd visit Friday the 13th, sort of the same logic.
• 47:49
  I think I could get through the one night.
• 47:53
  And then I'd, live in Sleepaway Camp because Angela wouldn't get mad at
• 47:56
  me because I'd be cool with Angela.
• 47:59
  Kearns: Okay.
• 48:00
  Jon: I'd be… I'm cool with people.
• 48:01
  Like, I-
• 48:02
  Kearns: You are cool with people, John
• 48:04
  Ryan: But she was cool with someone else and you saw how that ended up
• 48:08
  Jon: He was cool with him until he got too pushy
• 48:13
  Ryan: Oh yeah, fair.
• 48:14
  Okay, fair.
• 48:15
  Fair on that
• 48:17
  Kearns: John's not
• 48:17
  Jon: Absolutely.
• 48:17
  Kearns: pushy.
• 48:18
  Jon: No.
• 48:19
  No.
• 48:20
  All right, next one.
• 48:22
  Two, we have two left.
• 48:23
  We have,
• 48:24
  Kearns: okay.
• 48:24
  That's
• 48:25
  Jon: we have cabins and we have this one.
• 48:27
  We, yeah, yeah.
• 48:28
  We have… All right, zombie worlds.
• 48:30
  Kearns: Ooh
• 48:31
  Jon: Night of the Living Dead, Return of the Living Dead, World War Z
• 48:36
  Kearns: Nuke World War Z,
• 48:37
  Ryan: Yep.
• 48:38
  Kearns: shot.
• 48:38
  You got
• 48:39
  Ryan: We're nuking that
• 48:40
  Kearns: There's no shot.
• 48:41
  Usain Bolt's not outrunning those things, and they don't tire.
• 48:43
  They're supernatural beings.
• 48:45
  They're not zom- they're not reanimated dead.
• 48:47
  Night of the Living Dead, they're reanimated dead.
• 48:49
  Um, and I mean, if they get widespread enough, you're still
• 48:54
  cooked, but at least at this one, at this point, you got a lot of time.
• 48:58
  You got a lot of time.
• 48:59
  So I think I'm gonna live Night of the Living Dead.
• 49:01
  Return of the Living Dead I'll visit, just 'cause I feel like I got a better
• 49:04
  shot there than I do in World War Z
• 49:09
  Ryan: I
• 49:09
  Jon: Okay
• 49:10
  Ryan: Uh, nuke World War Z because those zombies are fast.
• 49:14
  Um, visit Return because the chances of them nuking that is highly possible.
• 49:20
  So I'd rather have, I'd rather visit in, you know, just 30 days and live in night.
• 49:25
  I mean, we've seen night, we've seen dawn, we've seen day.
• 49:29
  We know how it's headed.
• 49:30
  They're slow-moving zombies.
• 49:32
  We can handle it.
• 49:33
  No grouping.
• 49:35
  Jon: Okay.
• 49:36
  Fair enough.
• 49:36
  I am not going this, anywhere near the route you guys went.
• 49:40
  I'm nuking Return of the Living Dead.
• 49:42
  Ryan: What?
• 49:42
  Kearns: Why?
• 49:43
  Jon: Yep.
• 49:44
  Yep.
• 49:44
  Uh, because that's the scariest form of zombie.
• 49:48
  They're unkillable
• 49:50
  Kearns: Oh,
• 49:51
  Ryan: yeah, you do make a point
• 49:53
  Jon: They're unkillable.
• 49:54
  I'm visiting Night of the Living Dead 'cause I,
• 49:59
  Kearns: days there
• 49:59
  Jon: I, I, I have a zombie survival plan.
• 50:02
  I'm gonna live in World War Z because World War Z is the only one they cured
• 50:07
  Kearns: Yeah, but you gotta make it there,
• 50:09
  Ryan: Yeah, you gotta make it through
• 50:11
  Kearns: of the world's population left by the time they found that cure.
• 50:14
  Jon: there's a shot
• 50:16
  Kearns: Yeah, I
• 50:17
  Ryan: Don't go on planes,
• 50:18
  Jon: there's a shot.
• 50:21
  They c- they cured it by creating a vaccine essentially, yeah, yeah
• 50:25
  Kearns: Well, I mean, I guess polio is often used.
• 50:27
  All
• 50:28
  Jon: Yeah.
• 50:28
  Kearns: that's a
• 50:28
  Jon: All right.
• 50:29
  Kearns: John.
• 50:29
  You made us think
• 50:30
  Jon: All right, last one, cabins.
• 50:32
  Cabins in the woods.
• 50:34
  Kearns: Mm-hmm.
• 50:34
  Jon: Evil Dead, Cabin in the Woods, Cabin Fever
• 50:39
  Kearns: Cabin Fever is a live.
• 50:42
  Cabin Fever is a live.
• 50:43
  I just, it's… You know why?
• 50:45
  I'm 14 years old, that scene, rent-free, Listerine, never forget it.
• 50:51
  I'll never forget it for as long as I live.
• 50:55
  Cabin in the Woods, you're just not gonna, make it.
• 50:57
  They have buttons for if you do win, they still get you.
• 51:01
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 51:01
  Kearns: The only reason the guys won, um, in the version we saw is
• 51:05
  'cause they needed to make a movie.
• 51:07
  There's no situation in that where you make it.
• 51:09
  If the world d- depended on you perishing, you're gonna perish.
• 51:13
  So that's getting nuked.
• 51:15
  and I guess I'm visiting, uh, Evil Dead, and I'm probably not gonna
• 51:20
  make it out of that one alive.
• 51:21
  30 days in the Evil Dead universe?
• 51:24
  Jon: I think only one of these is really necessarily survivable.
• 51:28
  Ryan
• 51:29
  Ryan: So, um, uh, 'cause he got me thinking here.
• 51:33
  Um, I'm definitely nuking Cabin in the Woods.
• 51:37
  Love the film, but again, it's like there's no way you're
• 51:41
  gonna make it out of there.
• 51:43
  Even if you, again, you win, you're not… They need to do the whole sacrifice, and
• 51:48
  you're gonna be messed up if you make it.
• 51:50
  And yeah, I want-
• 51:51
  Kearns: I mean, we're not Hemsworth.
• 51:53
  Ryan: No.
• 51:55
  No
• 51:56
  Kearns: Hem- he was smart in that movie too
• 51:58
  Ryan: clown too.
• 51:59
  It'd be horrible.
• 52:00
  Kearns: Oh
• 52:00
  Ryan: Just be a horrible night.
• 52:01
  But I would visit Cabin Fever 'cause I don't have to jump in the water, you know?
• 52:07
  I can avoid that
• 52:08
  Kearns: it other ways and are you gonna turn that down?
• 52:11
  Are you gonna turn that down?
• 52:12
  I
• 52:13
  Ryan: Oh, that was trauma, that was traumatizing as a
• 52:16
  12-year-old watching that.
• 52:18
  Kearns: gonna know.
• 52:19
  You're gonna know what could happen and will happen, and you're still gonna get
• 52:22
  Ryan: No, no Listerine.
• 52:24
  No Listerine.
• 52:25
  But I think I can make it for 30 days there, but I would definitely
• 52:28
  live in The Evil Dead, 'cause don't have… Don't read the Necro Comicon.
• 52:33
  Don't read it.
• 52:34
  Don't listen to it
• 52:35
  Kearns: You don't have to read it.
• 52:36
  It
• 52:36
  Jon: Yeah, it all, all that has to happen is somebody else reads it
• 52:41
  Ryan: I would, I would make sure I,
• 52:42
  Kearns: it.
• 52:43
  Ryan: I would collect them all
• 52:44
  Jon: I, I would, uh, I would
• 52:45
  Ryan: them in a
• 52:46
  Jon: 100% read it if we were living in that universe.
• 52:50
  Kearns: It has a
• 52:50
  Jon: Klaatu baratu
• 52:52
  Kearns: Oh, no.
• 52:53
  Jon: necktie
• 52:53
  Ryan: you s- don't you start
• 52:56
  Kearns: All
• 52:57
  Jon: so yeah, I, I'm gonna do Cabin in the Woods.
• 53:00
  I think I'd live in Cabin Fever and visit Evil Dead
• 53:05
  Kearns: Namesies.
• 53:06
  Yay
• 53:08
  Jon: Yeah, they… Oh, listen
• 53:10
  Ryan: of Listerine.
• 53:11
  A lot of Listerine
• 53:11
  Kearns: quite a bit of Listerine
• 53:13
  Jon: No, I, I keep some on hand all the time, so…
• 53:17
  Kearns: Is that it for the game?
• 53:19
  Jon: That's it?
• 53:19
  Kearns: That's it for the game, everybody.
• 53:21
  Ryan: Wow, that was, that was painless.
• 53:23
  I appreciate it.
• 53:25
  Jon: Yeah
• 53:25
  Ryan: Really do.
• 53:26
  Next week might be a different story, but
• 53:29
  Kearns: Speaking of
• 53:29
  Jon: see
• 53:30
  Kearns: let's talk about del Toro's storytelling real quick.
• 53:34
  guys think?
• 53:35
  Ryan: masterful
• 53:36
  Jon: yeah, he's a top-notch storyteller, and he, like, he
• 53:39
  basically came in that way.
• 53:42
  The Devil's Backbone and Cronos, his storytelling is pretty
• 53:46
  impeccable right on through.
• 53:48
  I mean, whatever you think about some of his movie, I know there are
• 53:52
  people who don't like Frankenstein as much as we did, but the way
• 53:56
  he tells that story is fantastic
• 53:59
  Kearns: Brilliant.
• 54:00
  Thinking of just it in two parts from two perspectives.
• 54:05
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 54:06
  Kearns: idea.
• 54:06
  Nobody ever really thought of doing that, right?
• 54:08
  Ryan: his own films, he finds a tone, and he just keeps going along with the
• 54:12
  pace and how it works with it with a deep message, and I think that's the big thing
• 54:15
  is, uh, anything he's done for himself, Cronos, Shape of Water, Pan's Labyrinth.
• 54:22
  the, um, I feel like Frankenstein, even though, like, it's…
• 54:26
  Yeah, it's like he's…
• 54:27
  I f- it's his own creation 'cause he adds his influence to it.
• 54:31
  It's Amer- It's based on a work, and the same thing with Nightmare Alley.
• 54:34
  He leaves a message.
• 54:36
  But he does have fun.
• 54:38
  I mean, like Blade II, Pacific Rim, even The Mimic and Hellboy, he has
• 54:43
  fun with those films, where you can say, and the messages aren't
• 54:47
  as deep, but he can go both ways, and that's the best thing about it
• 54:52
  Jon: Yeah, it's interesting thinking about it that way because the movies he makes
• 54:56
  that are original ideas are generally more dark and serious thematically,
• 55:03
  and he chooses to adapt lighter fare
• 55:07
  Kearns: Mm-hmm.
• 55:08
  'Cause he doesn't have to build that from the ground up.
• 55:11
  He can
• 55:11
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 55:11
  Mm-hmm
• 55:12
  Kearns: kind of thing.
• 55:13
  the mandrake might be the best part of the storytelling arc in the pants for
• 55:19
  showcasing, not the best part of the movie or anything like that, but for
• 55:22
  showcasing his storytelling ability, that's like a mini movie within a movie.
• 55:28
  The mandrake where mom is sick, I gotta heal her.
• 55:32
  Has-- she goes out, she finds the mandrake.
• 55:34
  The mandrake is, like, steeped in lore.
• 55:37
  If you've ever, ever gone into it at all, like what the mandrake
• 55:40
  roots does, it's, it's in the Bible.
• 55:45
  Uh, it's in Genesis.
• 55:47
  It helps Rachel conceive a child.
• 55:48
  It was known for, like, fertility, love, and all this other medicine.
• 55:52
  one of the cool things I found for researching the episode, though, is that
• 55:55
  its origin, people thought it grew from the blood of people who had been hanged.
• 56:01
  Ryan: That's cool.
• 56:02
  Kearns: That's pretty sick, right?
• 56:04
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 56:04
  Kearns: That's
• 56:05
  Ryan: The history, not, not it happening, but just history
• 56:09
  Kearns: No, yeah, we don't want people being, um, executed, but we do
• 56:13
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 56:13
  Yeah
• 56:13
  Kearns: lore.
• 56:14
  So yeah, but the, it- all it is is just a plant that looks like a person,
• 56:18
  and grew superstition around that.
• 56:22
  And one of the other cool things is people, it looks, says, uh, farmers
• 56:25
  used to tie dogs to it then throw meat and cover their ears to see if
• 56:31
  the mandrake would scream because the myth that it would kill you
• 56:33
  instantly, which is kinda cool.
• 56:36
  Ryan: That's where I went with it when I heard
• 56:39
  Jon: And then ti-
• 56:39
  Ryan: crew
• 56:40
  Jon: then tying the screams into the movie too.
• 56:44
  Kearns: Brilliant.
• 56:45
  Jon: Yeah
• 56:46
  Kearns: brilliant, um, the way he interweaves the real horror of the movie,
• 56:50
  and there's nothing more horrific than reality really, into this mythological
• 56:54
  sort of, uh, veiled world and using the mandrake, and that showcases
• 56:58
  his storytelling ability for me.
• 57:00
  what did you guys think about the monster design?
• 57:02
  What do you guys think about the Pale Man?
• 57:05
  Ryan: Creepy.
• 57:06
  Jon: The P- yeah, the, the Pale Man is awesome.
• 57:10
  They, yeah
• 57:12
  Ryan: Like, would you, like, would you want to see that sitting across from you?
• 57:18
  Like, it's
• 57:19
  Jon: No.
• 57:20
  No.
• 57:21
  A- and, and to answer this, I'm not eating that fruit either
• 57:25
  Ryan: Those grapes look delicious.
• 57:26
  I would've… If I have a… He, she had
• 57:29
  Jon: I'm not, I'm not tou- I'm not, I am not touching that fruit.
• 57:33
  Kearns: It's the perfect lure for a child though, isn't it?
• 57:35
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 57:38
  And,
• 57:38
  Kearns: snatch a cookie?
• 57:39
  Jon: and, but, but who, who am I kidding?
• 57:41
  I just said, and said I would read out of the Necronomicon
• 57:44
  Kearns: You would.
• 57:46
  If you were hungry enough, you'd eat a grape in front of an evil
• 57:48
  being that looked like a statue but
• 57:50
  Jon: Absolutely.
• 57:50
  I, I would even if I wasn't hungry, who am I kidding?
• 57:54
  As soon as you,
• 57:55
  Kearns: grapes,
• 57:56
  Jon: as, as soon as you tell me not to do it, I'm doing it.
• 57:59
  So like, I'm done.
• 58:01
  Like, any of these worlds, I'm done because it's, I'm gonna do
• 58:05
  the thing they tell me not to do
• 58:07
  Kearns: He's horrific.
• 58:08
  He's terrifying looking.
• 58:09
  Um, easily the scariest part of the movie,
• 58:13
  Ryan: Yeah
• 58:14
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 58:14
  Kearns: the only other one with monster design you could really consider
• 58:17
  monster design is the faun, but it's
• 58:19
  Jon: Yeah.
• 58:19
  yeah,
• 58:20
  Kearns: design
• 58:21
  Jon: yeah.
• 58:21
  Ryan: yeah
• 58:23
  Jon: and it's the, intricacies of that, costume design, like it just,
• 58:30
  the way he brings that to life.
• 58:34
  That, I mean,
• 58:35
  Kearns: was the
• 58:35
  Jon: that, that's his guy.
• 58:37
  Like Doug Jones is, yeah, Doug Jones is a regular del Toro guy.
• 58:43
  Kearns: And do you know how strong you have to be?
• 58:44
  The horns are 10 pounds, and you're on stilts, eight-inch stilts.
• 58:51
  That's wild, dude
• 58:54
  Like the,
• 58:55
  Jon: Yeah
• 58:55
  Kearns: physicality to make that work and move the way he
• 58:58
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 59:02
  Yeah, I mean, Doug Jones has a lot of that Hugo Weaving sort of thing to him.
• 59:07
  you know, a lot of that thought I, those, that ability to be in
• 59:12
  a costume and still get emotion and, and that kind of stuff across
• 59:17
  Kearns: I believe that John is, is, uh, paying a compliment to his role
• 59:22
  in V for Vendetta when he plays V, and he's in a mask, and you can actually
• 59:26
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 59:26
  Mm-hmm
• 59:27
  Kearns: and he, he becomes super sympathetic, but he's wearing
• 59:30
  a fricking mask the whole
• 59:31
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 59:32
  Kearns: And much less related, or at least cool, is, um,
• 59:35
  Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man.
• 59:37
  They give kudos to him all the time for the amount of
• 59:39
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 59:39
  Kearns: But he's a theater actor, so it
• 59:41
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 59:41
  Kearns: sense too
• 59:42
  Jon: And yeah, it, there's a few of those.
• 59:43
  There's Andy Serkis too, who, who do- is able to convey that.
• 59:48
  Ryan: Yep
• 59:49
  Jon: know, like, the, you have, you have guys like that that are
• 59:52
  just really good at being creatures
• 59:55
  Kearns: Mm-hmm.
• 59:57
  Jon: Being hidden behind masks
• 59:59
  Ryan: true.
• 1:00:00
  It's just how he, just how he said it.
• 1:00:02
  He's like, "There's so many people who are comfortable being creatures out there."
• 1:00:06
  That's what got me, the creature features.
• 1:00:09
  But it works, and that's the thing, it's like you always need that actor
• 1:00:13
  who's willing to put the mask on.
• 1:00:17
  And, you know, it's a role that a lot of people actually shun because, "Oh, my face
• 1:00:22
  is covered," or, "It's too much makeup."
• 1:00:24
  But no, sometimes the best roles, you're covered in makeup and you're giving the
• 1:00:28
  best performance out of your whole life.
• 1:00:31
  You know, I
• 1:00:32
  Kearns: Like football, you need linemen.
• 1:00:35
  They're the most important part of the team.
• 1:00:37
  I'd argue more important than the quarterback.
• 1:00:40
  And- Yeah I mean, probably not actually, but
• 1:00:43
  Ryan: No.
• 1:00:44
  Kearns: damn important.
• 1:00:45
  Ryan: If
• 1:00:45
  Jon: You know, you could definitely make
• 1:00:46
  Ryan: quarterbacks are
• 1:00:47
  Jon: that
• 1:00:47
  Ryan: gone
• 1:00:48
  Kearns: You don't choose
• 1:00:49
  Jon: argument
• 1:00:49
  Kearns: lines in fantasy football.
• 1:00:51
  They're unsung heroes for sure.
• 1:00:53
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 1:00:54
  Kearns: are, the people who run these outfits, and you could be a big wuss
• 1:00:56
  like Jean-Claude Van Damme and, and pull out a Predator while they're
• 1:01:00
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 1:01:02
  Kearns: That was probably the best thing to happen to that movie,
• 1:01:04
  but still, because it, it resulted in the redesign of the monster.
• 1:01:07
  But still, which
• 1:01:08
  Ryan: That would have been cool though
• 1:01:10
  Kearns: Yeah.
• 1:01:11
  But,
• 1:01:11
  Jon: Yeah, maybe
• 1:01:12
  Kearns: segue
• 1:01:13
  Ryan: he gets Stallone in Van Damme years later though.
• 1:01:17
  Kearns: The movie, the movie itself, the ending of the movie is the most impactful
• 1:01:20
  part of the movie because they do the unthinkable uh, they unalive Ophelia.
• 1:01:26
  Ryan: Yeah
• 1:01:27
  Kearns: they?
• 1:01:28
  Or do they?
• 1:01:29
  Jon: They do
• 1:01:30
  Ryan: the question.
• 1:01:31
  It's, that's a good question though because mixing the idea of fantasy
• 1:01:36
  and reality 'cause you kinda see when the captain, notices Ophelia
• 1:01:40
  with her baby brother talk to the fawn, he doesn't see the fawn.
• 1:01:45
  So maybe it's something that's, like, she's only able to see, but it also brings
• 1:01:50
  up the question is how much trauma has she gone through for her to start breaking
• 1:01:55
  down, and that's where my head was going, she's breaking down, and then when she
• 1:02:00
  is, like, u- being unalive, laying there on the ground, and Mercedes is humming
• 1:02:04
  to her, that beautiful, horrific melody, and her getting transferred to that
• 1:02:11
  world is just a safe space, I guess, something for her to ease her pain.
• 1:02:17
  That's how I took it
• 1:02:18
  Kearns: to the waiting room concept of when we go, the, uh, people think
• 1:02:23
  that there's just a nice chemical dump, and you get very euphoric, and you go,
• 1:02:28
  and that's sort of, kind of a really pretty way to depict it after having
• 1:02:33
  made the movie all about her sort of having to-- a, a child having to live
• 1:02:38
  through all these horrors that she's
• 1:02:39
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 1:02:40
  And you, and really at no point before that do you have any legitimate
• 1:02:46
  thought that what's going on is only in her head, or at least I don't.
• 1:02:51
  Like, it, up until the, those last five minutes, I'm right along with her.
• 1:02:56
  I'm believing that she's really seeing this stuff, and that this
• 1:02:59
  is, like, really happening to her, and it's not an escapist fantasy.
• 1:03:05
  And then as she lays there fading, I, I think, I think it's really telling
• 1:03:13
  that the reunion with her mom and her dad and Fawn in the underworld is before
• 1:03:22
  her heart stops, before her last breath
• 1:03:27
  Because that's not, that, that's that euphoria right at the end, not
• 1:03:33
  this is where I've gone to after
• 1:03:38
  Ryan: See that
• 1:03:39
  Kearns: one way to do it too.
• 1:03:42
  Um
• 1:03:42
  Jon: I, I, I saw, it's interesting because this time I watched it, I saw
• 1:03:48
  a lot more darkness to the whole story.
• 1:03:52
  You know, the, her fantasy worlds and, you know, how awful
• 1:03:56
  I came to see the captain as.
• 1:04:01
  That he's, you know, I, I got to some really awful places of things
• 1:04:06
  that he may have done to cause her to really need these escapist fantasies
• 1:04:13
  Kearns: Yeah, that's pretty much the darkest avenue you can go for the movie.
• 1:04:17
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 1:04:17
  Kearns: to go deep into that,
• 1:04:18
  Jon: We don't need to.
• 1:04:19
  Kearns: if you have a,
• 1:04:20
  Jon: We don't need to
• 1:04:20
  Kearns: a vivid imagination, listener, don't use it right
• 1:04:22
  now, and you can understand
• 1:04:23
  Jon: Yes.
• 1:04:24
  Kearns: John's getting at.
• 1:04:25
  Um, I h- I truly don't think that, that del Toro goes that d- dark or maybe
• 1:04:30
  even needed to go that dark for this
• 1:04:32
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 1:04:32
  Oh
• 1:04:33
  Kearns: I tend to stay kind of left of that, and just think that it was just
• 1:04:38
  the horrors that she saw depicted, just regular human horrors that
• 1:04:42
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 1:04:42
  Kearns: depicted in the, in the world around her.
• 1:04:45
  And then you don't even-- I mean, the baby, it was her ultimate goal
• 1:04:50
  was saving the baby, her brother too, and she does achieve it.
• 1:04:55
  So there's that as well, and that's like she feels the reward, that whole reward
• 1:05:00
  ending feels like it's sort of due.
• 1:05:02
  But man,
• 1:05:03
  Jon: Earns,
• 1:05:03
  Kearns: a gut punch ending
• 1:05:04
  Jon: yeah, earns her place in her version of heaven
• 1:05:08
  Ryan: Yeah, it is.
• 1:05:08
  Yep
• 1:05:09
  Kearns: This fantasy heaven.
• 1:05:10
  And when you think about it, if a kid is, you know, going through fairy tales
• 1:05:13
  and stuff, what did you do as a kid?
• 1:05:15
  You imagined yourself in these worlds, and your- you had invisible friends who
• 1:05:19
  were either these things, these people or whatever, or they were copies of them.
• 1:05:25
  that's what she's doing, in my opinion.
• 1:05:27
  And it's… I mean, it, it just hits you so hard, and it's…
• 1:05:30
  What was the word we used?
• 1:05:31
  Harrowing?
• 1:05:33
  haunting.
• 1:05:33
  No, it's
• 1:05:34
  Jon: Haunting.
• 1:05:34
  Haunting, yeah
• 1:05:35
  Kearns: hauntingly beautiful ending, and it's one of my favorites of all time
• 1:05:40
  Ryan: Like, you know, thinking about it, it could also be her rage, like rage
• 1:05:44
  and jealousy based on the situation that happened, and her mom moving on, and
• 1:05:49
  feeling like her father's forgotten, being forced to be called this new
• 1:05:52
  person a dad, and they're having a kid, and like she feels like she's gonna be
• 1:05:57
  pushed aside, and her not doing that kinda shows that she's overcome that.
• 1:06:03
  I'm just, I just- Mm … it popped up in my head just now.
• 1:06:05
  That's why I figured
• 1:06:05
  Jon: Well, yeah.
• 1:06:05
  E- ev- every- everything in her life up to that end is traumatic
• 1:06:09
  without any, you know, sort of sinister subtexts or anything.
• 1:06:14
  You know, her dad's gone.
• 1:06:16
  Her mom is pregnant with her half-brother.
• 1:06:21
  The father of that half-brother is an awful human being.
• 1:06:26
  You're, you know, you grew up during a civil war, and now, you know,
• 1:06:31
  fighting guerrillas a- after it.
• 1:06:33
  It, like, it, it's … She's been through a lot in a short period of time, so,
• 1:06:39
  you know, it's not … A- and it's, you know, it's established with her books
• 1:06:43
  right off the bat that she's escapist
• 1:06:47
  Kearns: I mean, we didn't touch on her name either.
• 1:06:50
  We could do another 20 minutes on her name, but Ophelia, it's
• 1:06:54
  kinda right on the nose, guys.
• 1:06:56
  It g- it, it tells you the end right there.
• 1:07:00
  Jon: Yeah
• 1:07:01
  Kearns: if, uh, if you guys wanna look into what the name… It means helper,
• 1:07:04
  by the way, but it's also j- looking at what Ophelia from Hamlet goes through,
• 1:07:08
  and you'll kinda see why del Toro named her Ophelia, and why that seems, that
• 1:07:13
  guides my opinion of the ending as well.
• 1:07:16
  But yeah, man,
• 1:07:18
  Jon: Yeah.
• 1:07:19
  Kearns: Pan's Labyrinth.
• 1:07:20
  Uh,
• 1:07:20
  Jon: Yeah.
• 1:07:21
  Kearns: reviews now, guys.
• 1:07:22
  This has
• 1:07:22
  Jon: Absolutely.
• 1:07:24
  Kearns: thus far
• 1:07:25
  Jon: Well, let's see if we can pick it up a little bit with some of these
• 1:07:28
  reviews because this was another one that was tough to find the ones.
• 1:07:32
  I found them.
• 1:07:33
  It was tough.
• 1:07:34
  Um, so we have a
• 1:07:36
  Kearns: Spanish.
• 1:07:39
  Ryan: That's the
• 1:07:39
  Jon: 90…
• 1:07:40
  Ryan: one
• 1:07:40
  Jon: Uh, we'll go with, that's not that far off.
• 1:07:43
  Um, so currently Pans has a 95% critic score and a 91% audience score.
• 1:07:51
  This is, it's
• 1:07:52
  Kearns: statue.
• 1:07:53
  Jon: way up there.
• 1:07:54
  Kearns: statue
• 1:07:55
  Jon: I mean, it, it, it's the kind of movie that it doesn't surprise me
• 1:07:59
  is a little lower with the audience
• 1:08:01
  Kearns: Yeah
• 1:08:02
  Jon: they, there's a lot, there's a lot of cinema stuff in here too
• 1:08:06
  that a critic is looking for that, you know, your average person isn't
• 1:08:12
  Kearns: Where are the boobs?
• 1:08:13
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 1:08:14
  Jon: What do you mean she's dead?
• 1:08:19
  All right.
• 1:08:20
  Five stars.
• 1:08:22
  Guillermo del Toro at his finest.
• 1:08:25
  A dark yet beautiful journey that will stay with you long after the credit roll.
• 1:08:32
  Soundtrack is simple but moving.
• 1:08:34
  Story is audacious, but expertly handled.
• 1:08:38
  It's hard to imagine such a film would exist, let alone be so celebrated,
• 1:08:45
  if it were made by anyone else
• 1:08:50
  So that is a five-star review
• 1:08:52
  Kearns: is a
• 1:08:53
  Ryan: Yeah, that is
• 1:08:54
  Kearns: review for del Toro as a director too, not just the
• 1:08:56
  Jon: Yep.
• 1:08:57
  Kearns: Wow.
• 1:08:58
  Jon: Um,
• 1:08:59
  Kearns: Well
• 1:08:59
  Jon: I grab- I grabbed a three star this time also just because this three
• 1:09:04
  star is kind of absurd to me, that it… 'Cause this is a, you'll, you'll hear.
• 1:09:10
  Um, "I've heard so much about this film over the years that
• 1:09:14
  I really wanted to see it.
• 1:09:15
  It's two hours long, but I felt like I had s- I had seen everything I needed
• 1:09:20
  to see, and knew exactly where the story would go after about 30 minutes.
• 1:09:27
  So at that point, I quit watching.
• 1:09:31
  Still, it's a good film, and well cast, and the scene where the innocent
• 1:09:36
  father and son rabbit hunter duo gets unnecessarily slaughtered will
• 1:09:41
  haunt me for some time to come." I'm so confused by that review.
• 1:09:47
  That's why I put it in there.
• 1:09:48
  Like, parts of that are a one-star review.
• 1:09:51
  "I made it 30 minutes and I knew how it was gonna end."
• 1:09:54
  And sir, I call BS on that one
• 1:09:58
  Ryan: I second that.
• 1:09:59
  How do you know that that twist is gonna be
• 1:10:02
  Kearns: Yeah, that just leaves more questions than answers, the
• 1:10:05
  Jon: Yeah.
• 1:10:06
  Yeah.
• 1:10:07
  All right, so now I have a one star.
• 1:10:09
  This one, I'm not gonna mock the English on this because this one
• 1:10:13
  I had to translate from Portuguese
• 1:10:16
  Kearns: Sweet
• 1:10:17
  Jon: Yep, so bad movies are boring.
• 1:10:22
  The script is bad, the characters are bad, the scenes are bad, including the
• 1:10:26
  animal scenes, and the cast is weak, and nobody helps to improve the movie.
• 1:10:33
  The story is very bad and makes the movie worse.
• 1:10:37
  With all this, I don't recommend this movie.
• 1:10:39
  It's not worth watching
• 1:10:42
  Ryan: What animal sings?
• 1:10:43
  Kearns: the Spanish.
• 1:10:44
  I see your bias,
• 1:10:46
  Jon: I don't… I, like, like I, I, like I said, I'm not gonna make
• 1:10:50
  fun of some of the language in there because it's translated, and
• 1:10:54
  I don't know, like, does, do the animal scenes, like, is that, like, a
• 1:10:59
  Ryan: The folklore
• 1:11:00
  Jon: monsters or folklore or something?
• 1:11:03
  Probably.
• 1:11:05
  But just how many times it's bad.
• 1:11:07
  This mo- this is bad, this is bad, this is bad.
• 1:11:10
  And then I have one more one star, and this is from the
• 1:11:13
  pro-fascist wing of society.
• 1:11:17
  One star
• 1:11:21
  May as well be.
• 1:11:22
  One star.
• 1:11:23
  Horrible film.
• 1:11:25
  Every singe character is aggressively, uncompromisingly idiotic.
• 1:11:32
  Nothing any charar character did had any sense or cause.
• 1:11:38
  I simply do not understand how anyone could have watched this movie and not
• 1:11:43
  been driven to irrational anger over the sheer stupidity of these characters.
• 1:11:50
  I hated literally every single person in this movie.
• 1:11:54
  The film's sole saving grace is that they almost all die, and I'd like
• 1:12:00
  to imagine that Franco had the good sense to brutally kill off the rest.
• 1:12:05
  God-awful cliché film.
• 1:12:09
  I have absolutely no idea why Guillermo del Toro is considered a good director.
• 1:12:16
  Kearns: Wow
• 1:12:17
  Ryan: It, that person needs to be banned from writing reviews
• 1:12:20
  Kearns: from like everything
• 1:12:23
  Jon: I hope Franco had the good sense
• 1:12:27
  Kearns: That is insane.
• 1:12:28
  The good sense
• 1:12:31
  Jon: Sir, he's a fascist.
• 1:12:33
  He did not have any good sense
• 1:12:36
  Kearns: why you call that the pro-fascist review.
• 1:12:38
  Ryan: Jeez.
• 1:12:41
  Jon: Woof.
• 1:12:42
  All right, so what did, with those in, in mind, what did you
• 1:12:45
  guys think of Pan's Labyrinth?
• 1:12:49
  Kearns: Ryan
• 1:12:50
  Ryan: Oh, you want me to go first?
• 1:12:51
  All right.
• 1:12:51
  So this is the second watch for me.
• 1:12:53
  Um, out of all series, as you guys told me to watch it, I watched it
• 1:12:58
  in record time, funny enough, which is very oddly for me for a movie.
• 1:13:02
  But based on how you guys built it up, I wanted to see it,
• 1:13:05
  and I fell in love with it.
• 1:13:06
  I eventually got it, uh, Criterion when they finally put it back
• 1:13:10
  in stock, uh, few weeks ago now.
• 1:13:14
  And watching it again today, it's just an amazing piece of work, the writing, the
• 1:13:19
  music, his pacing, and it just shows how del Toro is that pinnacle of director.
• 1:13:26
  Like, I think about it when I was in college studying film, we studied a
• 1:13:32
  lot of like Kurosawa and, um, Orson Welles and Scorsese and, um, Coppola
• 1:13:41
  even Leone, and can add del Toro to that list, and this film just proves
• 1:13:46
  it, and that's why I'm gonna give it a five-star, which is the blue star, 'cause
• 1:13:52
  Jon: You can go all the way to the blue
• 1:13:54
  Ryan: Yeah, it deserves the treatment.
• 1:13:56
  Kearns: a blue star.
• 1:13:57
  Jon: Yeah, Blue Star is beyond five
• 1:13:59
  Ryan: so it's a blue star because he just-- It's a phenomenal film
• 1:14:04
  Kearns: you're just doing that 'cause you know I'm gonna give it a blue star.
• 1:14:06
  You said you weren't gonna give it a blue star earlier.
• 1:14:09
  Ryan: I threw you off
• 1:14:10
  Kearns: give a blue star to… No, you don't give a blue
• 1:14:13
  Ryan: Do you…
• 1:14:13
  Kearns: be a people pleaser.
• 1:14:14
  Give it five if you think
• 1:14:15
  Ryan: No.
• 1:14:16
  Kearns: movie
• 1:14:16
  Ryan: a five-star Blue Star.
• 1:14:17
  I thought that was it.
• 1:14:18
  So it's a Blue Star.
• 1:14:19
  It is a Blue Star 'cause it's done great.
• 1:14:21
  I, I feel like I can pop it in after we're done talking, and I'm gonna
• 1:14:25
  watch it again and have a fun time.
• 1:14:27
  Not a fun time, but
• 1:14:29
  Kearns: physical challenge.
• 1:14:30
  You now have to watch it again
• 1:14:32
  Ryan: it's, it's, it's Lady Snowblood time, sir.
• 1:14:35
  Kearns: Yeah, so that was disingenuous too.
• 1:14:42
  So I, I do believe this is a, uh, transformative movie, and that's
• 1:14:47
  what it takes to make a movie go beyond, like, the regular five-star.
• 1:14:51
  Stand Out is one of the great films of all time, um, for me in particular, and I
• 1:14:55
  think this is a subjective sort of thing, to give it the blue star idea that we had.
• 1:15:00
  Its tone, it, its storytelling ability, its story itself, it's all these things,
• 1:15:09
  and it's, like, the overall message.
• 1:15:10
  And I think this one has to do with the child's imagination, which I
• 1:15:13
  think is a super powerful message, and pe- one people forget too easily.
• 1:15:17
  And it reminded me of it, and I never forgot it again.
• 1:15:22
  And that's why I think that this movie is a blue star movie.
• 1:15:24
  It's just absolutely in what it does, in my opinion
• 1:15:29
  Jon: I'm not gonna make it a unanimous Blue Star
• 1:15:32
  Kearns: I didn't
• 1:15:32
  Jon: only because I, I mean, I, I feel, I feel kinda stuck 'cause the way we
• 1:15:37
  framed the Blue Star is that it's like the smallest of percentages of your reviews.
• 1:15:47
  Like the s- fewest movies in the w- of anything are gonna be Blue Star.
• 1:15:52
  I already have one Blue Star this year, and knowing what's coming up
• 1:15:57
  on our calendar, I have the potential to wanna give two more beyond this
• 1:16:04
  Ryan: Oh, they're… I'm on the same level with you, brother
• 1:16:06
  Jon: So
• 1:16:07
  Ryan: Yeah
• 1:16:08
  Jon: I'm gonna give Pan's five, just the standard five star.
• 1:16:12
  I, I…
• 1:16:16
  It's, it's hard to not give it the blue star because the, it is
• 1:16:19
  that special, it is that good.
• 1:16:22
  It's the storytelling, it's the atmosphere, it's just
• 1:16:26
  everything about Pan's hits right.
• 1:16:29
  I just feel stuck with the blue star, so it's, it's five.
• 1:16:34
  It's a five for me
• 1:16:36
  Ryan: I'll take it.
• 1:16:36
  Kearns: five for Ryan too, so don't worry about it.
• 1:16:39
  Don't worry about
• 1:16:40
  Ryan: Fine, I'll… It's five star.
• 1:16:42
  Kearns: Yeah, it's, it's
• 1:16:43
  Ryan: It's five star.
• 1:16:44
  It's five star
• 1:16:44
  Jon: How do we keep talking you out of your reviews?
• 1:16:47
  Kearns: that.
• 1:16:47
  That's so easy.
• 1:16:48
  Well, because it was the whole time.
• 1:16:50
  He literally said it earlier, and then he see- he
• 1:16:53
  Jon: We,
• 1:16:54
  Kearns: gonna go with blue, and he got
• 1:16:55
  Jon: we,
• 1:16:55
  Kearns: go first.
• 1:16:57
  Jon: we keep, we keep talking.
• 1:16:59
  You gotta stand on your convictions, man.
• 1:17:01
  Is this five or blue?
• 1:17:03
  Ryan: I'll give it a five because you do make a point.
• 1:17:05
  I don't want to… Blue Star should be special, and I have two movies
• 1:17:09
  coming up this year that really I wanna give a Blue Star, so.
• 1:17:15
  But current TV
• 1:17:16
  Kearns: one for the remainder of our podcast, 'cause it's hard for
• 1:17:18
  Ryan: Oh,
• 1:17:19
  Kearns: this genre too
• 1:17:20
  Ryan: if there is one that you don't give a blue star, I'd be shocked.
• 1:17:24
  Kearns: I
• 1:17:24
  Ryan: I'd be
• 1:17:24
  Jon: Yeah.
• 1:17:25
  Kearns: and I loved Frankenstein,
• 1:17:27
  Jon: We also weren't really doing the Fra- the Blue Star concept
• 1:17:30
  yet when we did Frankenstein.
• 1:17:31
  Kearns: We gave it
• 1:17:32
  Ryan: We started it.
• 1:17:33
  Kearns: I gave
• 1:17:33
  Ryan: I think we s-
• 1:17:34
  Jon: I think we, we, we had d- we had discussed the concept, and it might have
• 1:17:39
  been because of Frankenstein that we discussed the concept of the Blue Star,
• 1:17:44
  the movie that transcends the five stars.
• 1:17:47
  Um,
• 1:17:48
  Kearns: it was knocking at
• 1:17:48
  Jon: but I d- I d- I don't think we e- I don't think we had officially designated
• 1:17:55
  that as a rating we were gonna give
• 1:17:57
  Kearns: And that one was a movie like, you know, he always has the thing.
• 1:18:00
  That one's redemption and forgiveness and, and a few other concepts, but still.
• 1:18:08
  Ryan: But
• 1:18:08
  Kearns: Sorry,
• 1:18:08
  Ryan: I,
• 1:18:09
  Kearns: a
• 1:18:09
  Ryan: I,
• 1:18:09
  Kearns: walked by.
• 1:18:10
  Ryan: I feel,
• 1:18:13
  I feel though that Frankenstein was a five-star movie though real quick.
• 1:18:17
  And
• 1:18:18
  Kearns: think
• 1:18:18
  Ryan: just 'cause like I feel like if it, if they didn't have so many
• 1:18:21
  people in the cookie jar, I think it could've been a blue star opportunity.
• 1:18:26
  Kearns: in the cookie jar.
• 1:18:27
  Ryan: No, but
• 1:18:28
  Jon: release coming this fall.
• 1:18:29
  Kearns: we gotta
• 1:18:30
  Jon: Yep.
• 1:18:30
  Kearns: the top
• 1:18:30
  Jon: Let's get to the top five
• 1:18:32
  Ryan: Top fives, it's gonna be quick.
• 1:18:34
  It's like a Band-Aid, right off.
• 1:18:36
  And last year we covered Frankenstein and, um, originally did top five Glu-
• 1:18:42
  Guillermo del Toro films, and I just wanna run through them real quick.
• 1:18:45
  It was Pacific Rim, The Mimic, Blade 2, Hellboy, Shape of Water,
• 1:18:49
  and I've my library to be more.
• 1:18:54
  I missed that.
• 1:18:55
  I was looking down.
• 1:18:55
  I'm sorry.
• 1:18:57
  What'd I
• 1:18:58
  Jon: Just go.
• 1:18:58
  Go.
• 1:18:59
  Kearns: fine.
• 1:18:59
  Go, go, go, go,
• 1:19:01
  Jon: Go, go, go, go
• 1:19:02
  Ryan: S- so we're gonna start off with number five, updated list, and
• 1:19:06
  number five's gonna be Frankenstein.
• 1:19:08
  The story following the life of Frankenstein, the egotistical scientist
• 1:19:12
  whose experiment in creating new life results in dangerous consequences.
• 1:19:16
  It's a great remake.
• 1:19:18
  I'm a big fan of the '32 film, Curse, but del Toro does great with the story,
• 1:19:23
  and he gives it his own unique twist.
• 1:19:25
  And then we get to number four.
• 1:19:28
  Last time it was number one, but I moved it to number four,
• 1:19:30
  and that's The Shape of Water.
• 1:19:32
  Uh, it follows a mute cleaner at a high security government laboratory
• 1:19:35
  who falls in love with a captured humanoid amphibian creature and
• 1:19:38
  decides to help him escape from death at the hands of an evil colonel.
• 1:19:42
  It's a great film.
• 1:19:43
  It's a great homage to The Creature from the Black Lagoon.
• 1:19:46
  Del Toro mixes romantic with dark fantasy perfectly, and it's just so good.
• 1:19:52
  And Michael Shannon, I feel, does steal the movie.
• 1:19:56
  He just does a great job as the antagonist.
• 1:19:58
  Jon: He often does.
• 1:20:01
  He often steals movies
• 1:20:03
  Ryan: Oh yeah.
• 1:20:03
  Yes, he does.
• 1:20:04
  Uh, Zod is one that comes to mind for Man of Steel, but I digress on that.
• 1:20:10
  Uh, number three, we talked about it tonight.
• 1:20:12
  That is Pan's Labyrinth, it's number three 'cause it's just… I love it.
• 1:20:20
  It's a great film.
• 1:20:22
  Gave it five stars.
• 1:20:23
  But after I saw number two, which is his first film, Cronos, spot
• 1:20:28
  goes to number two for Cronos.
• 1:20:30
  I enjoy the film so much.
• 1:20:32
  It's basically the idea of this antique dealer, um, getting his hold on this
• 1:20:37
  mechanism that gives immortality, and just the history and the buildup and
• 1:20:43
  the lore that he puts into it, and the strong message for a first film.
• 1:20:47
  Um, he went strong.
• 1:20:49
  It reminded me a lot of Martin Scorsese's Mean Streets, where this is
• 1:20:53
  what he was gonna do, and then after Mean Streets, he does Taxi Driver.
• 1:20:58
  I mean, he did Cronos, and I think he just-- he did The Mimic right after.
• 1:21:02
  So he found his niche where he can build up from, so he can make Pan's Labyrinth
• 1:21:07
  and, um, Pacific Rim and stuff that he wanted to do enjoy, 'cause Pa- Pacific
• 1:21:14
  Rim was something he wanted to do, uh, in honor of Godzilla films and stuff.
• 1:21:19
  And that leads to number one.
• 1:21:21
  It's, uh, his most recen- uh, second, second, third most recent
• 1:21:25
  film, and that's Nightmare Alley.
• 1:21:27
  I just watched that recently, and that's now number one.
• 1:21:30
  Uh, story's about a mys- a carnival worker, uh, played by Bradley Cooper,
• 1:21:35
  who's charming and ambitious, with a mysterious past, who learns mental tricks
• 1:21:41
  and carny tricks, and he gets enveloped into this whole mystery, uh, that
• 1:21:47
  leads to his rise as well as downfall.
• 1:21:50
  And I don't wanna give too much away 'cause it's, it's such a great
• 1:21:53
  film, and if anyone hasn't seen it, don't watch the color version.
• 1:21:56
  Watch the black and white version.
• 1:21:58
  It's nine minutes longer, but it adds more to the story, and it's a great buildup.
• 1:22:02
  But that's my updated list, and I'm curious to hear
• 1:22:05
  what you got tonight, John.
• 1:22:08
  Jon: I'm not, we're sort of in the same universe with our top fives.
• 1:22:12
  Mine is, um, five more Doug Jones movies
• 1:22:18
  That brought up how, how awesome he is, like, in costumes and s- and
• 1:22:22
  how he's able to, to convey that, and a lot of, lot of these are gonna
• 1:22:26
  be that, but not my number five.
• 1:22:28
  My number five, he plays Dave, and it's Jack Frost 2: Revenge
• 1:22:34
  of the Mutant Killer Snowman.
• 1:22:38
  Um, so after the events of the first Jack Frost, Sheriff Sam
• 1:22:44
  Tyler and his wife decide to decompress in a Caribbean paradise.
• 1:22:49
  All seems well until the killer snowman appears in the Caribbean
• 1:22:54
  paradise, now with heat resistance.
• 1:23:00
  Is it good?
• 1:23:01
  Nah, not at all.
• 1:23:03
  Is it fun?
• 1:23:05
  Oh, absolutely
• 1:23:09
  Ryan: Say
• 1:23:12
  Jon: My number four, and at this point I just have to squeeze this
• 1:23:15
  movie onto our calendar with how much I talk about it on here.
• 1:23:21
  Uh, Doug Jones plays Roger North in John Dies at the End
• 1:23:28
  Eh, the, I, I love this movie.
• 1:23:31
  I mean, he's a shape-shifting, mind-controlling, interdimensional
• 1:23:36
  traveling, cult-leading villain
• 1:23:41
  Um, so it's a, a new drug called Soy Sauce leaves most users dead
• 1:23:47
  and bug infested, but not Dave.
• 1:23:49
  Dave ends up with his own set of dimension traveling and psychic
• 1:23:53
  abilities as he attempts to save the world and his best friend, John
• 1:24:00
  Um, my number three we've bought up a, brought up a bunch of times tonight.
• 1:24:04
  He plays one of the bugs, one of the Long Johns, and that's Mimic.
• 1:24:12
  Um, so we've re- we've reached the del Toro section of the list.
• 1:24:17
  Um, Dr. Susan Tyler created an insect to eliminate cockroaches
• 1:24:22
  that were carrying a disease.
• 1:24:24
  Three years later, her insects have not only su- survived and succeeded, but
• 1:24:30
  grown and have their own mission now: eliminate their only predators, people.
• 1:24:38
  Uh, you get a cast that includes Mira Sorvino, Charles S.
• 1:24:42
  Dutton, Josh Brolin, F. Murray Abraham, and Norman Reedus.
• 1:24:48
  Go check out Mimic.
• 1:24:50
  Um, my number two, again, del Toro.
• 1:24:55
  It's, um, his role as Abe Sapien in Hellboy.
• 1:25:01
  Um, so demon Hellboy must save the planet from the dark mysticism of Rasputin.
• 1:25:08
  Ron, Ron Perlman is great as Hellboy.
• 1:25:11
  He's peak Hellboy.
• 1:25:13
  Like, David Harbour was a fine Hellboy.
• 1:25:15
  He's not Ron Perlman.
• 1:25:16
  Um, Jones as Abe is like the perfect counterpart and sort of
• 1:25:23
  a, a preview of what my number one Doug Jones role is gonna be.
• 1:25:27
  He's a fish man, uh, physically strong, psychic abilities.
• 1:25:33
  Abe Sapien is, like, just an awesome character, but not as awesome
• 1:25:37
  as my number one, which is the Amphibian Man in The Shape of Water.
• 1:25:43
  Right, Ryan.
• 1:25:44
  Describe Shape of Water.
• 1:25:45
  I'll, I'll do a quick run through in my way.
• 1:25:48
  Um,
• 1:25:48
  Kearns: Hot and he's wet
• 1:25:51
  Jon: Hot and wet.
• 1:25:53
  Um, a lonely mute janitor working at a top-secret research facility, isolated
• 1:25:59
  in her world until she encounters the newly arrived Amphibian Man.
• 1:26:05
  Um, they enter in a, an unconventional relationship, and she may be
• 1:26:10
  his only hope for survival.
• 1:26:13
  The Shape of Water earned del Toro his long overdue Oscar for
• 1:26:17
  Best Direction and Best Picture.
• 1:26:19
  Um, it's, you know, it's kind of a shame to me that this is
• 1:26:24
  the only thing he's won for.
• 1:26:28
  I think, you know, we've discussed that Pan should've won him a couple of awards.
• 1:26:33
  I think you could argue Nightmare Alley could have.
• 1:26:35
  I think you could argue Frankenstein could have.
• 1:26:39
  But
• 1:26:40
  Kearns: Read.
• 1:26:40
  Jon: The Shape of Water did it, and that's my top five
• 1:26:43
  Kearns: on the cool kids' table at lunch, unfortunately.
• 1:26:46
  Um, and he's just way smarter and sexier than they
• 1:26:49
  Jon: Mm-hmm.
• 1:26:50
  Kearns: he's not.
• 1:26:50
  There, there's a fantastic group of peers that he absolutely
• 1:26:54
  belongs with, but if you looked at his shelf, you wouldn't know it.
• 1:26:57
  That's basically
• 1:26:59
  Jon: I mean, he,
• 1:26:59
  Kearns: this movie, so we do
• 1:27:01
  Jon: he's, he's got his independent awards.
• 1:27:03
  He's got, I mean, he's got two Academy Awards.
• 1:27:07
  Kearns: Yeah,
• 1:27:07
  Jon: And,
• 1:27:08
  Kearns: not
• 1:27:08
  Jon: know.
• 1:27:09
  Kearns: at
• 1:27:09
  Jon: Yeah, he's got awards.
• 1:27:11
  He should probably have more, but yeah, that's my top five and a
• 1:27:16
  little added del Toro love at the end
• 1:27:19
  Kearns: Appreciate that.
• 1:27:21
  almost, almost teed up Ryan to see if he liked the monster in Shape of Water for
• 1:27:26
  its sort of homage to the creature of the Black Lagoon, the Black Lagoon because
• 1:27:30
  he's such a huge Universal horror fan.
• 1:27:33
  Ryan: It's definitely an homage, and that's what actually drew me into it.
• 1:27:37
  'Cause you know what?
• 1:27:38
  The creature only wanted love
• 1:27:39
  Kearns: almost teed him up because we're gonna end the episode now.
• 1:27:42
  It's an
• 1:27:43
  Ryan: What?
• 1:27:43
  Kearns: a half long, so all right everybody, that was,
• 1:27:47
  that was Pan's Labyrinth
• 1:27:49
  Ryan: All right.
• 1:27:50
  Have a good one, everyone.
• 1:27:51
  Enjoy.
• 1:27:52
  Get some fairy tales
• 1:27:55
  Jon: See ya