Latest / The Book Deal / Debut Panel: Carly-Jay Metcalfe and Christine Newell on memoir writing and sharing personal stories

Transcript

Debut Panel: Carly-Jay Metcalfe and Christine Newell on memoir writing and sharing personal stories · The Book Deal

• 0:09
  Tina Strachan: This is the Book Deal podcast where you will discover the inspiring stories, the authors behind your favorite books.
• 0:15
  Tina Strachan: No matter what stage of writing you are at, we've got you covered.
• 0:19
  Tina Strachan: I'm Tina Strachan.
• 0:20
  Tina Strachan: And I'm Madeleine Cleary.
• 0:21
  Tina Strachan: And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors one deal at a time.
• 0:29
  Madeleine Cleary: The book Deal podcast acknowledges the traditional owners, the land and waters, which it's recorded on.
• 0:35
  Madeleine Cleary: And pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.
• 0:43
  Madeleine Cleary: I had the privilege of speaking to two incredible debut writers of memoir Carly-Jay Metcalfe and Christine Newell.
• 0:50
  Madeleine Cleary: Carly-Jay Metcalfe's Debut Breath, published by Uqp hit shelves in March, 2024 to much critical acclaim winning the Queensland Literary Awards People's Choice Book of the Year Award.
• 1:03
  Madeleine Cleary: And Christine Newell, who recently published her memoir, five Seasons in Seoul in March, 2025 with Affirm press after being long listed for the 2024 Hawkeye Publishing manuscript development prize.
• 1:15
  Madeleine Cleary: Carly and Christine are beautiful storytellers, so I'll let them tell you their tales.
• 1:21
  Madeleine Cleary: And while their memoirs are very different, I was struck by their generosity and courage to share not just their memories of the things happening around them, but also their inner thoughts too.
• 1:31
  Madeleine Cleary: It is a powerful thing to release a memoir, allowing us as readers to get a glimpse inside how another experiences the world.
• 1:39
  Madeleine Cleary: These two incredible women capture life in all its facets, the grief, the trauma, but also the joy of the small and brilliant moments.
• 1:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Christine Newell and Carly-Jay Metcalfe.
• 1:55
  Madeleine Cleary: Welcome to the Book Deal podcast.
• 1:58
  Madeleine Cleary: Thank you so much.
• 1:59
  Madeleine Cleary: Thanks Madeleine.
• 2:00
  Madeleine Cleary: Great to have you both here.
• 2:02
  Madeleine Cleary: We were just having such good pre-chat podcast chats that I just had to hit record because we were talking about the day brew crew and what I realized, which is really interesting, you've both released memoirs, um, both in March as well, Carly.
• 2:17
  Madeleine Cleary: Yours was first last year in 2024, and Christine this year, and this is our first debut crew, 20 24, 20 25 crossover.
• 2:27
  Madeleine Cleary: Harley, how was the experience for you having that support group last year?
• 2:33
  Madeleine Cleary: It was, or
• 2:34
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: it
• 2:34
  Madeleine Cleary: is such
• 2:35
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: a beautiful group of people.
• 2:38
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, most of, I don't know if this is the same with you, Christine, but most of the, uh, authors have written fiction, so I think there were maybe.
• 2:48
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: 65 or 70 people in the group, and I think five or six of us had written memoir.
• 2:55
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, so, but yeah, incredibly supportive and just, and just always propping each other up and rather hilarious, like lots of hilarious conversations and, and also very honest, also very honest about the whole process.
• 3:12
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: So yeah, it was fantastic.
• 3:16
  Christine Newell: Yeah, I think there's only one other.
• 3:18
  Christine Newell: Uh, author who has written a memoir in our group this year.
• 3:21
  Christine Newell: Am I right Madeleine?
• 3:22
  Christine Newell: Yeah, I'm not too sure.
• 3:23
  Christine Newell: It's hard to keep up,
• 3:24
  Madeleine Cleary: isn't it?
• 3:24
  Madeleine Cleary: We're just saying it's growing quickly, but it's great support.
• 3:29
  Madeleine Cleary: We've, um, and Christine and I have, you know, become really good friends out of, out of this, where we share the same publisher, but being part of the same group.
• 3:36
  Madeleine Cleary: I think there's, writers just have this, when you meet other writers, you just feel this instant connection, feel.
• 3:43
  Christine Newell: Yeah, it's always so easy I find, and it's so lovely to have a few of the debut crew in Melbourne as well, because we're all spread out and so then when you finally get the chance to meet in real life, after all of the messaging back and forth, it's, yeah, it's the best feeling.
• 3:59
  Christine Newell: Yeah,
• 4:00
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: absolutely.
• 4:01
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Yeah.
• 4:01
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I, I, I developed a couple of really close, um, friendships and one, uh, is Arianne Beon who wrote, because I'm Not myself, you see, and I did an in conversation with her at Avid Reader when she came up.
• 4:17
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, so meeting her for the first time, but having just been emailing and texting and the rest of it for months and months, it was just, it, it was so exciting to see her.
• 4:28
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, it's so special, isn't it?
• 4:29
  Madeleine Cleary: It's, um, yeah, I think, um, there is gonna be a 2026 day boot crew as well.
• 4:33
  Madeleine Cleary: So for anyone who's listening, who's getting their books published next year, Sophie Stern, uh, an author, she has set that group up so.
• 4:40
  Madeleine Cleary: Please do reach out to Sophie and be part of this wonderful community that we have.
• 4:45
  Madeleine Cleary: Let's talk about books.
• 4:46
  Madeleine Cleary: I think this is very exciting.
• 4:48
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, Carly, I might start with you as you were the first one to be published in this group.
• 4:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Uh, can you tell us a little bit about your incredible award-winning memoir?
• 4:57
  Madeleine Cleary: Breath?
• 4:59
  Madeleine Cleary: I guess
• 4:59
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: breath is about being born with a terminal illness, in my case, cystic fibrosis.
• 5:06
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Uh, and it covers my childhood, my double lung transplant when I was 21, and all of the other I.
• 5:14
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Non-medical adventures and misadventures.
• 5:17
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: So I guess it's an exploration of life, death, sex, drugs, rock and roll.
• 5:23
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I think, um, the book is a little, uh, undefinable.
• 5:28
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: It's not a medical memoir.
• 5:29
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: It's not a trauma or a cancer memoir.
• 5:31
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: It's not a misery memoir.
• 5:34
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: There's something in it for everyone.
• 5:36
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: This is what I keep hearing.
• 5:38
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, I, I completely agree.
• 5:40
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, my husband and I, we actually listen to it in on an audio format, um, on some road trips.
• 5:46
  Madeleine Cleary: And, um, and I think for us, we, when you pick it up, you go, oh, I expect that I'm gonna cry in this book.
• 5:52
  Madeleine Cleary: And you do, you absolutely do cry.
• 5:54
  Madeleine Cleary: So we're weeping as we're like driving along the Hume Highway, but, but what I didn't expect, and this is something you were mentioning earlier before our pre-chat.
• 6:02
  Madeleine Cleary: How much we were laughing as well.
• 6:04
  Madeleine Cleary: And then we're also, when we start laughing about things, and I'll put like a little trigger warning here.
• 6:09
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, CU cancer.
• 6:11
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 6:13
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:14
  Madeleine Cleary: Especially in audio format, the way that it was delivered, these lines, like, we couldn't stop laughing and then I felt really bad about laughing.
• 6:21
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: No.
• 6:21
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: What we discussing, I can make, I can make a joke out of.
• 6:27
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Pretty much anything.
• 6:28
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: So laugh away.
• 6:30
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Laugh away at my expense.
• 6:32
  Madeleine Cleary: And I suppose, you know, if you're not laughing, you're crying.
• 6:34
  Madeleine Cleary: If you're not crying, you're, you have to laugh, right?
• 6:36
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Exactly.
• 6:37
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Yeah, that's right.
• 6:38
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: If you, if you don't laugh, then you are on the floor in the fetal position, uh, never
• 6:45
  Madeleine Cleary: wanting to come up again.
• 6:46
  Madeleine Cleary: Exactly.
• 6:47
  Madeleine Cleary: Exactly.
• 6:47
  Madeleine Cleary: No, it's an absolutely incredible debut and um, yeah, and it's obviously took massive critical acclaim, so congratulations on that.
• 6:55
  Madeleine Cleary: Thank you so much.
• 6:56
  Madeleine Cleary: Thank you.
• 6:57
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, so you actually said in when you are writing it that you never expected that it would be, um, something that would be cathartic.
• 7:04
  Madeleine Cleary: 'cause often they say writing a memoir, it's a very cathartic thing, particularly if you've gone through a lot of trauma like you have.
• 7:10
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 7:11
  Madeleine Cleary: But you also didn't expect it to be so hard to write.
• 7:14
  Madeleine Cleary: So have what drew you to writing this memoir?
• 7:18
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Oh, it's, it's good.
• 7:19
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: This is gonna sound very strange, but I actually started writing my first memoir when I was 11 years old.
• 7:24
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, I've been through so much already that I had enough material for a book, which is so abnormal when you really think about it.
• 7:35
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Uh, and I think, you know, I've always written, um, I still have my first short story that I wrote in HB pencil on Phil's cap paper.
• 7:45
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I think I was about eight.
• 7:46
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, and I was fortunate in that I could already read and write before I started school.
• 7:52
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: So I can't really remember a time when I wasn't writing.
• 7:55
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um.
• 7:56
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I wrote a lot in high school because I, I spent about a third of my time in hospital during high school.
• 8:03
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I ended up doing some of my HSC exams, um, in hospital.
• 8:08
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, and there were some pretty awful things happening around me, like the deaths of friends who also had cf.
• 8:16
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I wrote a lot of really dark poetry, which is so funny to look back on now.
• 8:20
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: And I still have all of those notebooks.
• 8:23
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, I, I was, I was obsessed with Sylvia Plat and she's still one of my
• 8:26
  Madeleine Cleary: great loves.
• 8:29
  Madeleine Cleary: So it sounds like it was a, a bit of an escape too, reading and writing.
• 8:33
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, yeah, absolutely.
• 8:35
  Madeleine Cleary: For sure.
• 8:37
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Writing this
• 8:38
  Madeleine Cleary: memoir was no easy task.
• 8:42
  Madeleine Cleary: No, I can imagine.
• 8:43
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, what, Christine, tell us a bit about your memoir.
• 8:47
  Madeleine Cleary: Five Seasons and so, and, and was it, was it something that was cathartic for you?
• 8:51
  Madeleine Cleary: I.
• 8:52
  Christine Newell: Yeah, so look, five Seasons in Seoul is a memoir about my experience living and performing in South Korea.
• 8:59
  Christine Newell: Uh, it's an exploration of Korean life, the food landscape, and culture.
• 9:04
  Christine Newell: But it's also a, a very, a deeply personal story about my battle with anxiety and depression following the death of my father after a, a, a prolonged illness.
• 9:15
  Christine Newell: And the ways in which immersing myself in Korean culture helped me.
• 9:21
  Christine Newell: To, to heal.
• 9:23
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 9:23
  Madeleine Cleary: And so was it cathartic for you then to write?
• 9:26
  Christine Newell: Yeah, it really was.
• 9:28
  Christine Newell: Mm-hmm.
• 9:28
  Christine Newell: Um, you know, I had my moments when, you know, it is hard to revisit those times in your life, especially when you have hindsight.
• 9:36
  Christine Newell: So I'm obviously writing it quite a few years later with a lot of hindsight.
• 9:41
  Christine Newell: So at times I, I felt frustrated with myself at times.
• 9:44
  Christine Newell: I just felt.
• 9:47
  Christine Newell: Yeah.
• 9:47
  Christine Newell: You know, revisiting some of that trauma can be difficult.
• 9:50
  Christine Newell: Um, before I left for career, I was at a, at very much, at probably the lowest point I'd ever been in my life.
• 9:57
  Christine Newell: So revisiting that was difficult, but I also did find it cathartic because it helped me during the writing process, I think I gained a greater understanding of myself.
• 10:09
  Christine Newell: Mm.
• 10:09
  Christine Newell: And a greater understanding of my time.
• 10:12
  Christine Newell: In, in South Korea as well.
• 10:14
  Christine Newell: So it was actually a mostly a really beautiful thing for me.
• 10:18
  Madeleine Cleary: Being an expat, I think too, um, it's, it's a very formative time if for people who have gone and lived overseas.
• 10:25
  Madeleine Cleary: It, it, um, not only opens up your worldview and you get to experience a different culture, you, you feel like you have changed yourself.
• 10:33
  Madeleine Cleary: But I.
• 10:34
  Madeleine Cleary: And perhaps when you come home, things have stayed quite the same and there's a bit of a disconnect, and then you start questioning, well, where is home?
• 10:41
  Madeleine Cleary: Did you find that too?
• 10:42
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh
• 10:43
  Christine Newell: look, absolutely.
• 10:43
  Christine Newell: Yes.
• 10:44
  Christine Newell: When I first went over it was a huge period of transition and I think, um, I.
• 10:50
  Christine Newell: You know what was slightly unique about my experience is that I wasn't over there to teach English.
• 10:55
  Christine Newell: And I think at the time a lot of the expat community were English teachers over in South Korea.
• 11:00
  Christine Newell: I think it's shifting now, but this was around 20 years ago when we didn't have anywhere near the access to other cultures that we do now through Netflix and.
• 11:11
  Christine Newell: All sorts of things.
• 11:13
  Christine Newell: Um, so it was, I was very, I went over alone to work for a Korean theater company, a bilingual theater company.
• 11:21
  Christine Newell: But I was in a situation where most conversations happened in Korean first, so English wasn't.
• 11:29
  Christine Newell: The first language in the workplace.
• 11:31
  Christine Newell: So I very much lived, I was fully immersed in Korean life during my time there.
• 11:36
  Christine Newell: I didn't really have much to do with an expat community at all, so there wasn't, it was a huge transition when I went over and then You're completely right.
• 11:44
  Christine Newell: It was like when I came home, I felt in a way that same sense of disconnect.
• 11:49
  Christine Newell: I felt when I first arrived.
• 11:51
  Christine Newell: Mm-hmm.
• 11:52
  Christine Newell: So, yeah, it's a very, very formative time in, in so many ways.
• 11:56
  Christine Newell: Um, and because it happened during a time when I was so incredibly vulnerable as well, um, I think the impact was, was so much greater on, on my life.
• 12:06
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 12:07
  Madeleine Cleary: And it's such a stunning, um, book debut novel, Christine.
• 12:11
  Madeleine Cleary: You know, we've spoken at length about this.
• 12:13
  Madeleine Cleary: I just absolutely loved it.
• 12:14
  Madeleine Cleary: So highly, highly recommend that listeners, um, read both our book, both the books, um, that Carle and Christine have.
• 12:21
  Madeleine Cleary: But now I wanna talk a little bit about where you start, uh, with a M1.
• 12:25
  Madeleine Cleary: Kylie, I might, um, start with you, um, since you've been drawing from, you know, uh, materials from since you're a child, what, how, what, how do you start?
• 12:34
  Madeleine Cleary: You've, you've obviously got, so you've got journals, you've got the people around you telling stories.
• 12:40
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, what do you trust and how do you start?
• 12:44
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Yeah, that's interesting.
• 12:45
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: And, and I, what Christine mentioned before about anxiety and depression.
• 12:50
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, when I did knuckle down to really start writing this memoir in 2018, I had a major depressive episode and I was thinking, is this, is this worth it?
• 13:02
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, and I didn't know if it was going to be, but I had to back myself and, and it was, it was worth it.
• 13:09
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Like there was no way.
• 13:11
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I couldn't not.
• 13:13
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Finish it.
• 13:14
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I.
• 13:15
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: No intention of coming that far, only to set it on fire.
• 13:19
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: So I turned up at my desk most days and just retraumatized myself.
• 13:25
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Not for fun, but I had to get those stories down.
• 13:31
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Uh, as for, um, yeah, the idea of memory, like it's, it, it's, it's.
• 13:37
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: An interesting question because memory's so subjective, isn't it?
• 13:39
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, the material for the book, I had a blog many years ago when everyone was blogging.
• 13:47
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I retired my blog not long after I started really not playing down with the story.
• 13:53
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: So I had material I'd been able to pull from that.
• 13:56
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: But other, I mean really other than that, I was totally reliant on my memory and.
• 14:06
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I think I have a bit of what's called total recall.
• 14:10
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: It's not a photographic memory per se, but I remember events from my childhood in and of, and adulthood in very vivid detail.
• 14:20
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: And people backed me up on my story.
• 14:22
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: So that was kind of strangely validating.
• 14:25
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, and I didn't really s sit through my journals until towards the end, and everything was as just.
• 14:34
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Was just as I had remembered, and it's funny, my friends get a bit freaked out because I can remember seemingly insignificant details and they were like, they're like, how do you, how do you remember that?
• 14:47
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: And it's, it's just, it's just there.
• 14:49
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: It's very easily accessible for me.
• 14:52
  Madeleine Cleary: I wonder if it's, it's, it might be similar with Christine as well, when you're going through something that is so unique.
• 14:59
  Madeleine Cleary: And and frightening and anxiety inducing and you feel that your threat response emerging, that your memory starts recalling those types of things.
• 15:10
  Madeleine Cleary: It could go the opposite as well.
• 15:11
  Madeleine Cleary: You could try and block those things, but it's amazing how much detail you remember.
• 15:15
  Madeleine Cleary: And Christine, you were remembering things like the meals you ate.
• 15:18
  Madeleine Cleary: And this is all based off things that happened 20 years ago and you didn't have those diaries.
• 15:24
  Christine Newell: Yeah, you're right.
• 15:25
  Christine Newell: And I think my experience was very, very similar to what, uh, Carly-Jay has just said.
• 15:30
  Christine Newell: I, I didn't keep journals either.
• 15:33
  Christine Newell: Um, and I, I also feel like I have quite a good memory for detail.
• 15:40
  Christine Newell: And again, I know that memory can play tricks on you.
• 15:43
  Christine Newell: Um, but I think when something is so transformative, either.
• 15:48
  Christine Newell: In both ways, either if it's quite traumatic or if it's something that's really incredibly joyous and something that has been such a significant part of your life.
• 15:57
  Christine Newell: I think it, it stays with us in so many different ways.
• 16:01
  Christine Newell: Um, and I did a similar thing.
• 16:02
  Christine Newell: I had my colleagues who could back me up.
• 16:05
  Christine Newell: I have, um, a huge photo album just full of photos that I took during my, my year in South Korea.
• 16:13
  Christine Newell: And I actually, it, it surprises me how much I relied on those.
• 16:17
  Christine Newell: So I would.
• 16:17
  Christine Newell: Start with, with the memory that I had and the way that I thought things played out, but then I would go back and, you know, try to back myself and look at photos to make sure, um, with my childhood, like I still have my beautiful mom.
• 16:32
  Christine Newell: And, um, she was really great at, at, at talking those things through and me saying, look, this is how it felt to me.
• 16:40
  Christine Newell: Do you think that that's true?
• 16:43
  Christine Newell: Of the experience for you as an adult and is that how you remember it?
• 16:47
  Christine Newell: So, um, and I mean, so much of memoir is about how, is through the author's eyes, how they experience the world, how they felt.
• 16:58
  Christine Newell: Um, but you know, there is that line of, of wanting to back it up and, and have it come from a, a place of truth.
• 17:04
  Christine Newell: So I think walking that line is really important.
• 17:07
  Christine Newell: So I did a lot of research as well, um, to, to back myself.
• 17:12
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: That, that's interesting you say that about your mom, because I'm so close to my mom, we're, we're almost like the same person because she essentially, you know, nursed me for the first 21 years of my life.
• 17:25
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, and, and then yeah, we're, we're, we're incredibly close.
• 17:29
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: And I, I would say to her, how do you remember it being?
• 17:34
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: And then I would say, okay, well, that's how I remember it as well.
• 17:38
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: So, yeah.
• 17:39
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Yeah, and photos.
• 17:40
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Photos.
• 17:41
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I've actually got photos of my transplant surgery, so looking back at those, obviously I was, I was sedated.
• 17:51
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, but it's just fascinating to look back at those and to also see, uh, it was like a photo documentary, so to see my friends and family at different stages of the night when I got called up for the transplant.
• 18:05
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: So photos are so important.
• 18:07
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Yeah.
• 18:08
  Christine Newell: Yeah.
• 18:09
  Christine Newell: Those little details in photos too.
• 18:11
  Christine Newell: Like, I think when we look at photos, we just see what's at the, at the forefront.
• 18:15
  Christine Newell: But when you are trying to research and, and recall memories, it's looking at all those tiny little things in the background.
• 18:22
  Christine Newell: Like even for me, street signs and what people were wearing and all of that kind of thing.
• 18:28
  Christine Newell: It, it really brings it all back.
• 18:29
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 18:30
  Madeleine Cleary: Hmm.
• 18:31
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, so you've got all these, you've got photos, you've got your family, you've got, um, some journals.
• 18:37
  Madeleine Cleary: You've got your writing, your memories.
• 18:39
  Madeleine Cleary: How, where do you start in terms of structure?
• 18:42
  Madeleine Cleary: How do you put all this together?
• 18:43
  Madeleine Cleary: And Carly, I might start with you.
• 18:46
  Madeleine Cleary: That was, I, that was
• 18:49
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: the main problem I had was I was like, I've got 120,000 words, which I knew was too long.
• 18:57
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: And I cut it too, I think.
• 18:59
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: 80,000 or 70, 80,000.
• 19:02
  Madeleine Cleary: That's a huge exercise, Carly, that's massive.
• 19:06
  Madeleine Cleary: Cutting 40,000
• 19:07
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: words.
• 19:08
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Yeah, I was just, I, I, I looked at the manuscript and I thought, if this isn't driving the story forward, it goes, I'm ruthless.
• 19:17
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: So, which is, which is I guess a good thing, a good thing in hindsight.
• 19:23
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, but structure is what I have the most difficulty with.
• 19:26
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I didn't want it to be.
• 19:29
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Chronological, like I was born in 1976 and, but it, I mean, it does, it, it starts with me being in the dying room at 21 knowing that I'm about to die, and then it sort of goes a little bit, weaved it in and out of my childhood and then into adulthood.
• 19:54
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: So I just, I didn't want it to be.
• 19:57
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: This really boring, chronological story where, you know, fact after factors laid out.
• 20:03
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: So I did have issues with the structure, and this is where my wonderful editor, Jack Wool and Blanchard from UQP came in and saved the day.
• 20:17
  Madeleine Cleary: It certainly, um, was not a boring story.
• 20:20
  Madeleine Cleary: Carly, I was riveted from that first opening scene of you in the hospital.
• 20:24
  Madeleine Cleary: No, you wanna die.
• 20:25
  Madeleine Cleary: Um.
• 20:26
  Madeleine Cleary: And obviously spoilers you didn't, um, yes, spoiler alert she lives, but, um, it, I thought it was just a beautifully structured thing, and even at the ending as well, your reflections about, um, society and, and comments about death and how we treat death.
• 20:42
  Madeleine Cleary: I think it was, um, yeah, beautifully structured.
• 20:45
  Madeleine Cleary: So that's why I was so interested to know how you did that.
• 20:48
  Madeleine Cleary: Christine, what about you?
• 20:49
  Madeleine Cleary: Did you find it natural to write a memoir?
• 20:52
  Christine Newell: Um.
• 20:54
  Christine Newell: In some ways I did, because I think it had been kind of burning inside me this desire to write this story, and it just took some time for, you know, to get all my ducks in a row and be able to give myself the permission I needed to devote my time and energy to such a big task.
• 21:11
  Christine Newell: Um, but I guess one thing that I really tried to focus on was that I didn't.
• 21:16
  Christine Newell: I want it to be too heavy on the personal backstory.
• 21:21
  Christine Newell: And then at the same time, it was really important for me to place certain things about Korean culture and my time there in historical and cultural context as well for the reader, um, and also for, for accuracy.
• 21:34
  Christine Newell: So, um, for me, my biggest challenge was about getting that balance right.
• 21:38
  Christine Newell: I didn't want it to be suddenly, I didn't want it to suddenly read like, you know, uh uh.
• 21:44
  Christine Newell: A historical kind of account of the Korean War, for example, or, um, and then I didn't want it to be too heavy on the backstory, so for me it was just about getting that balance right and trying to then sustain that all the way through.
• 21:59
  Christine Newell: I did do quite a few, um, memoir writing workshops.
• 22:03
  Christine Newell: Before I started, or not long after I started.
• 22:06
  Christine Newell: And I also have a great book called Writing True Stories by Patti Miller, who is a a, an Australian memoirist.
• 22:12
  Christine Newell: And that was very much my, my bible during that time.
• 22:15
  Christine Newell: So I really turned to that a lot to help me stay out of those, those traps.
• 22:20
  Christine Newell: You know, I, I also didn't want it to just be kind of a boring chronological.
• 22:24
  Christine Newell: Um, account.
• 22:25
  Christine Newell: So I also do a lot on Korean culture and I think, you know, the different, um, patterns of the year and the cycles there to help get me out of that kind of, okay, so today I did this and then another month passes and then this happened.
• 22:40
  Christine Newell: Um, and I think it's also about deciding what's important, uh, you know, with, with that kind of to avoid all of that excess and that excess word count.
• 22:50
  Christine Newell: 'cause I was the same.
• 22:51
  Christine Newell: I had to cut.
• 22:52
  Christine Newell: A little bit, not, not a huge amount, but um, yeah, it's just about, I think looking really deep into the story and deciding what is important, what is it about this particular event that I want to convey.
• 23:07
  Christine Newell: I.
• 23:08
  Madeleine Cleary: The other thing, Christine, consideration for you as you're writing about a culture that is not your own as well, uh, Korean culture, how did you, and I think you, you do it really beautifully.
• 23:18
  Madeleine Cleary: It's, um, you know, it's there, there's a risk that you could be critiqued for, um, you know, using appropriation of culture for your novel, but I, I think it was beautifully done.
• 23:29
  Madeleine Cleary: What considerations and thought
• 23:31
  Christine Newell: did you put into that?
• 23:32
  Christine Newell: Look, it was a huge responsibility.
• 23:34
  Christine Newell: I very much felt the weight of that from the word go.
• 23:37
  Christine Newell: Um, it was so important to me when I made the decision to do this that I portrayed Korean culture res both respectfully and accurately.
• 23:47
  Christine Newell: Um, but then you've also got your own personal experience to balance in there.
• 23:51
  Christine Newell: And memoir, as I said before, it comes from, from the author's experience of how, how they experience this world.
• 23:59
  Christine Newell: So I think.
• 24:01
  Christine Newell: As I went on, the, the way I approached it was to start with my own experience, to start with what happened and how I felt, how it felt to me, and then go and back that experience with research and also place it in that historical and cultural context to give it a a, a broader meaning, and also to make sure.
• 24:24
  Christine Newell: That I was explaining it in the best possible way that I could.
• 24:28
  Christine Newell: So I did do an awful lot of research, um, even if a, a, a lot of it I already knew to be true, even if it was something that my colleague said to me about Korean culture and I should.
• 24:41
  Christine Newell: Behave in this way.
• 24:43
  Christine Newell: I then went back and researched that for my own understanding and so that I knew how I could best explain that to the reader.
• 24:52
  Christine Newell: So, um, yeah, look, hopefully I did that.
• 24:55
  Christine Newell: I was very nervous about, um, yeah, being accused of, of.
• 25:01
  Christine Newell: Of not representing Korean culture, um, accurately.
• 25:05
  Christine Newell: But um, yeah, all I know is that I did a lot, a lot of research and I, I backed myself every step of the way.
• 25:12
  Christine Newell: And I just think that's so important.
• 25:13
  Christine Newell: If you can get to the end and know that you came from a place of respect and love, which.
• 25:19
  Christine Newell: Is very much what motivated me to write this book.
• 25:22
  Christine Newell: Um, and I think that's another thing I learned in those writing workshops is to, when you're writing a memoir, is to question your motivation and not just your motivation for writing the book, but your motivation for writing a particular scene.
• 25:35
  Christine Newell: And I think that's very important when you are also involving other people because your story is going to implicate other people and you are sharing, you are sharing their life.
• 25:45
  Christine Newell: As well.
• 25:46
  Christine Newell: So I think if you can question your motivation and you know that it's coming from a, a, a, a good place and a place of respect and love, then I think that puts you on a good path to start off with.
• 25:57
  Madeleine Cleary: So many.
• 25:58
  Madeleine Cleary: I have so many questions.
• 25:59
  Madeleine Cleary: But to start, let's, let's just go back to, um, now talking about, um, the process to publication.
• 26:04
  Madeleine Cleary: We are the book deal podcast.
• 26:06
  Madeleine Cleary: We're very interested in book deals and how you get them.
• 26:08
  Madeleine Cleary: And then I wanna talk about reception to that and people who find out that you're writing memoir, people who find out you're publishing it, people who might feature in the story.
• 26:17
  Madeleine Cleary: So, Carly, I might start with you.
• 26:19
  Madeleine Cleary: You mentioned your lovely editor at UQP.
• 26:22
  Madeleine Cleary: Could you talk a little bit about your process to getting your book deal?
• 26:26
  Madeleine Cleary: What helped you to secure that and what your experience was?
• 26:31
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Yeah, I.
• 26:33
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I was doing post-grad study at the University of Queensland and my supervisor said I should apply for the UQP writing mentorship, um, which I wasn't going to do because I didn't really think I had a chance.
• 26:47
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Uh, but to my great surprise and delight, I won and.
• 26:51
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: After a couple of mentoring sessions with my now publisher, the fabulous Madonna Duffy, I was offered a publishing contract four months later.
• 27:02
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, it, it all happened very quickly.
• 27:04
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Wow.
• 27:04
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I was offered book, yeah.
• 27:06
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I was offered the book deal in March, 2023 and the book was printed by December, so it was, that's turn whiplash.
• 27:19
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: But it was exhilarating and it made me feel very alive.
• 27:23
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, and I loved every moment of the publishing process.
• 27:27
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I just loved it.
• 27:28
  Mm.
• 27:29
  Christine Newell: And Christine.
• 27:31
  Christine Newell: I'm the same.
• 27:32
  Christine Newell: I loved every, every step of it.
• 27:34
  Christine Newell: I mean, you have moments where it's stressful and you are racing to meet a deadline, but overall it's just such a, it's such a privilege to have a beautiful team of creative like-minded people who are all dedicated to your project.
• 27:47
  Christine Newell: I mean, how often does that happen?
• 27:49
  Christine Newell: You know, that you have a team dedicated to making your project and your very personal story the best it can possibly be.
• 27:57
  Christine Newell: So I think for me.
• 27:59
  Christine Newell: I was kind of just plotting away in the background and I had intentions of pursuing publication, so I was.
• 28:05
  Christine Newell: Just trying to educate myself as much as I could, attending workshops, listening to, to podcasts like this.
• 28:11
  Christine Newell: I wish this podcast was around because it would've been great.
• 28:15
  Christine Newell: Um, and I initially, I think one of the turning points for me was that I, in, I attended a.
• 28:21
  Christine Newell: A workshop where I was given the chance to practice pitching my book to a publisher.
• 28:27
  Christine Newell: And it really was just supposed to be a practice pitch.
• 28:30
  Christine Newell: You didn't have to have a finished manuscript.
• 28:32
  Christine Newell: And, and I certainly didn't.
• 28:34
  Christine Newell: Um, but at that time, the publisher that I was.
• 28:37
  Christine Newell: Uh, practicing two for feedback actually requested my manuscript so that it was just that little, that moment that said, okay, I'm not crazy for doing this.
• 28:48
  Christine Newell: You know?
• 28:49
  Christine Newell: What was the workshop Christine for?
• 28:51
  Christine Newell: Yeah, sure.
• 28:52
  Christine Newell: Yeah.
• 28:52
  Christine Newell: It was actually, I mean, it was more than a workshop.
• 28:54
  Christine Newell: It was a fantastic event through the emerging writers festival called Inside the Publishing House, where they basically give you like a.
• 29:02
  Christine Newell: A backstage tour, that's my theater talk coming out, but a backstage tour behind the scenes of a publishing house and, and everything that each department does.
• 29:11
  Christine Newell: And it was absolutely fascinating.
• 29:13
  Christine Newell: And then part of that is that you do attend a, a workshop on, uh, on how to pitch.
• 29:20
  Christine Newell: Your book, and then you are just given an option.
• 29:23
  Christine Newell: It's, it's not part of it.
• 29:24
  Christine Newell: Like you can decline, but at the end you can just book in for a five minute chance to basically just put into practice what you've learned.
• 29:32
  Christine Newell: Um, so, and why not, why would you decline it as well?
• 29:35
  Christine Newell: Not,
• 29:35
  I know, I mean.
• 29:38
  Christine Newell: You know, it was, it was perfect.
• 29:40
  Christine Newell: Like I was madly taking notes through the whole thing and then I had a little bit of time to kind of rework what I already had based on what I'd learned in that, in that short amount of time.
• 29:51
  Christine Newell: And yeah, what I mean, what if you got to lose?
• 29:55
  Christine Newell: Um, but it's interesting though,'cause it was a learning point, is that a practice pitch isn't necessarily just a practice pitch.
• 30:00
  Christine Newell: So I think that's also something to remember.
• 30:02
  Christine Newell: 'cause then I felt, even though the publisher didn't pressure me, I felt an.
• 30:07
  Christine Newell: Awful amount of pressure to get that manuscript finished.
• 30:11
  Christine Newell: Um, and so you pitched and you, they requested it and you hadn't finished your manuscript yet, is that right?
• 30:17
  Christine Newell: Or hadn't?
• 30:18
  Christine Newell: Yeah, that's correct.
• 30:18
  Christine Newell: I hadn't finished it because it wasn't a requirement.
• 30:21
  Christine Newell: Like with the Australian Society of Authors Speed Dating, you must have a finished manuscript, but this is more of an educational.
• 30:28
  Christine Newell: Setting.
• 30:29
  Christine Newell: Um, so yeah, it wasn't a requirement and I didn't have a finished manuscript, but it was just Did you feel the pressure when they said, yeah.
• 30:37
  Christine Newell: Would love to see it?
• 30:38
  Christine Newell: It was insane, yes.
• 30:40
  Christine Newell: And you know, in some ways it served me well.
• 30:42
  Christine Newell: In other ways it didn't.
• 30:43
  Christine Newell: So what it did do was.
• 30:45
  Christine Newell: I absolutely 100% committed to getting that manuscript finished.
• 30:49
  Christine Newell: So, not everything else, just the manuscript was my priority, which I hadn't really given myself complete permission to do.
• 30:57
  Christine Newell: But I think knowing that someone was interested and knowing that, you know, perhaps this idea did have something going for it, um, yeah, just changed my entire approach.
• 31:07
  Christine Newell: Um, so I spent the, you know, the summer that followed, that working incredibly hard on the manuscript and.
• 31:14
  Christine Newell: I sent it off and at the time I thought it was ready, like I had worked very hard.
• 31:19
  Christine Newell: Um, I put pressure on myself, but I didn't really, I hadn't kind of just rushed it and gone, okay, I just need to get this out.
• 31:25
  Christine Newell: Um, but what I didn't have was distance from the manuscript, and I think that was one of the biggest things I learned through that journey.
• 31:33
  Christine Newell: So I got it done.
• 31:34
  Christine Newell: I sent it off, I thought it was ready, and then.
• 31:38
  Christine Newell: It was literally just a few weeks later, after having a little bit of a break from it and going back to it, I just went,
• 31:45
  oh,
• 31:46
  Christine Newell: I'm not sure that it was ready, because all of a sudden, once the pressure was off, I just had all these ideas of how I could expand it and make it better.
• 31:54
  Christine Newell: And, and as it turns out, you know, that opportunity, it didn't lead to anything.
• 32:00
  Christine Newell: Um, but that doesn't mean it wasn't worthwhile.
• 32:02
  Christine Newell: Um, so from that point, I then.
• 32:05
  Christine Newell: Continued to work on the manuscript for, uh, another 12 months.
• 32:09
  Christine Newell: I sent it off for a manuscript appraisal.
• 32:11
  Christine Newell: Um, and then when, where did you do that?
• 32:14
  Christine Newell: So where did you get it appraised?
• 32:16
  Christine Newell: Yeah.
• 32:16
  Christine Newell: I actually went to Patty Miller.
• 32:18
  Christine Newell: Mm-hmm.
• 32:18
  Christine Newell: Um, because she specializes in memoir and I just felt like that was the best.
• 32:22
  Christine Newell: Place for me.
• 32:24
  Christine Newell: I'd done some workshops with her.
• 32:26
  Christine Newell: I'd had a little kind of, she offers a great service, which is just like an online kind of consultation where you could, I could pay by the hour because obviously as a, as a writer and someone who's always worked in the arts as well, um, as a theater performer, um, you know, the budget is tight.
• 32:42
  Christine Newell: Mm-hmm.
• 32:42
  Christine Newell: We don't.
• 32:43
  Christine Newell: Money to throw at these things.
• 32:45
  Christine Newell: Um, and I just felt that what Patty Miller offered was something that was accessible.
• 32:50
  Christine Newell: Um, so I had a, like a one hour consultation initially just to kind of sound her out.
• 32:54
  Christine Newell: And that was in the very early stages.
• 32:56
  Christine Newell: And then when I knew that the manuscript appraisal was the way to go, I, I went back to her.
• 33:02
  Christine Newell: Um, and it was actually one of her.
• 33:04
  Christine Newell: Um, partners that, that did the, the appraisal,'cause she was busy writing another book.
• 33:09
  Christine Newell: Um, and his name was Anthony Reer.
• 33:11
  Christine Newell: He's actually, I think he's actually Patty Miller's husband, but he's also her professional partner and he was just wonderful.
• 33:18
  Christine Newell: Um, he just showed me things that I couldn't see myself because I was too close to it.
• 33:23
  Christine Newell: Mm-hmm.
• 33:24
  Christine Newell: But also told, was very, uh, forthcoming about what I'd done well.
• 33:28
  Christine Newell: So it gave me so much confidence, but it also showed me where.
• 33:33
  Christine Newell: I could absolutely improve this manuscript.
• 33:36
  Christine Newell: And from there I just devoted everything I had to it.
• 33:41
  Christine Newell: And it was eventually the literary speed dating.
• 33:44
  Christine Newell: Um, I felt like the verbal pitching worked quite well for me because I do have a performing background and I quite enjoyed it.
• 33:50
  Christine Newell: So, um, it was the Australian Society of Authors Literary Speed Dating that eventually led to my publication deal with Affirm Press and, and Ruby Ashby, or so I pitched to Ruby at the a SA and um, even that didn't happen straight away, but, but it did happen so.
• 34:08
  Madeleine Cleary: What a story, Christine, and that shows as well that you know, this is a series of years.
• 34:13
  Madeleine Cleary: First time when you, when I publish a request, your manuscript, it's so exciting.
• 34:18
  Madeleine Cleary: Doesn't necessarily mean though that they're gonna take it on.
• 34:20
  Madeleine Cleary: It's really tough.
• 34:21
  Madeleine Cleary: But you've gone back, you've done the work, you've made it right.
• 34:25
  Madeleine Cleary: Carly, I'm really interested When, when did it start feeling real to you?
• 34:28
  Madeleine Cleary: Was it when you signed the book deal or was it when you saw it on the shelf?
• 34:31
  Madeleine Cleary: Or was it when you won the Queensland literary?
• 34:35
  Madeleine Cleary: Award.
• 34:36
  Madeleine Cleary: Like where, when did it feel real?
• 34:38
  Madeleine Cleary: Um,
• 34:39
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: it, I think it was when, uh, I remember when I picked up my first, like when, well, when my first box of books arrived and I, instead of doing the, uh, traditional unboxing.
• 34:57
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Oh, yes.
• 34:58
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, yeah.
• 34:59
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I actually, as you would know from reading my memoir, my parents are just both extraordinary people and so is my sister.
• 35:08
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: And my sister, she knew that I had the box of books, so she was like screaming madly.
• 35:13
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, but she wrapped them up, mom and dad, and they had no idea.
• 35:17
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, so I took a video of them unboxing it because it was.
• 35:25
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Just as much their story as mine.
• 35:28
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Right.
• 35:28
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, and I will never forget the look on their faces.
• 35:32
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Uh, it was just, it made everything, all of the pain, all of the, the times I was, you know, on the floor in tears.
• 35:42
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: It, it made it all worth it.
• 35:44
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: And yeah, it was just, it was,
• 35:49
  Madeleine Cleary: yeah.
• 35:49
  Madeleine Cleary: Something I'll never forget.
• 35:51
  Madeleine Cleary: And this is the thing about, I'm like tearing up here.
• 35:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Just, that's just, I can just imagine like the, the, your parents just sound like absolute wonderful people, so it's what a moment for them.
• 36:01
  Madeleine Cleary: But writing books, it's not just about us, is it?
• 36:04
  Madeleine Cleary: It's, it's about all the people around us and the impact that our words have on others.
• 36:09
  Madeleine Cleary: It's, it's, and particularly when it's about memoir and it's about them too.
• 36:14
  Madeleine Cleary: It's their, it's your story.
• 36:15
  Madeleine Cleary: It's also their story.
• 36:16
  Madeleine Cleary: What was their reaction when you first told them about.
• 36:20
  Madeleine Cleary: The book and the deal and that it was,
• 36:22
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: well, I mean, I, I've always written, so they, they've always known that I've been sort of working away quietly, um, on writing my stories down.
• 36:34
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I didn't like to say I was writing a memoir.
• 36:36
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I felt like a very old white, politic male politicians saying, I'm writing my memoir.
• 36:43
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, so I said, I, when people asked, I would just say, I'm just writing my stories down, but.
• 36:50
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Then I was like, okay, just accept the word Carly.
• 36:52
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Just accept it.
• 36:53
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: So I did.
• 36:55
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, and yeah, so I, yeah.
• 37:00
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Surprised them on the day that I was offered the book deal.
• 37:03
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: And they were just, yeah, my parents and my sister were just absolutely so wrapped, so chuffed.
• 37:12
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Yeah.
• 37:12
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: We celebrated.
• 37:14
  Madeleine Cleary: Christine, you're nodding.
• 37:17
  Christine Newell: Yeah, look, I think it was, you know, it's similar for me in that, um, because I was writing, I mean, my book is a travel memoir, um, and a lot of it is about South Korea and South Korean culture.
• 37:29
  Christine Newell: But also a very big part of it was my personal journey with, with my father's illness.
• 37:33
  Christine Newell: And that started when I was five.
• 37:36
  Christine Newell: So, you know, I was very much telling his story.
• 37:38
  Christine Newell: His story and um, you know, he's obviously no longer, no longer with us.
• 37:43
  Christine Newell: Um, so I was really relying on my mom to be, I guess, my, my compass with that.
• 37:49
  Christine Newell: Um, and she was just such a huge, a huge part of the entire journey.
• 37:53
  Christine Newell: She knew that I was, that I was writing a memoir, although I did also struggle with that word.
• 37:58
  Christine Newell: Um, it's, yeah, really interesting.
• 38:01
  Christine Newell: There's just something about it to actually tell someone that, oh, well, I'm writing a memoir.
• 38:05
  Christine Newell: About my own life.
• 38:07
  Christine Newell: Just I'm gonna be really, I'm gonna be
• 38:09
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: really honest, I felt like a total blanker saying I'm writing a memoir.
• 38:14
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I
• 38:15
  Christine Newell: implying that I am just so interesting.
• 38:18
  Christine Newell: Yes.
• 38:19
  Christine Newell: Everybody would hear about my life and it just, yeah, I, I'm, I'm pleased that you kind of said that, Kelly, because I just, yeah, I really struggled too.
• 38:28
  Christine Newell: Um, but look, she did, my mom did know and a few close friends knew.
• 38:33
  Christine Newell: And then for the rest.
• 38:34
  Christine Newell: I played it down very much.
• 38:36
  Christine Newell: Oh, I'm just, just writing a little book, just writing a bit about my time in South Korea and all of that.
• 38:41
  Christine Newell: So I think, look, the moment it felt real for me was when I got my publication date.
• 38:47
  Christine Newell: Because you kind of start the journey and you don't have that, and you've got that big kind of hurdle of the first big structural edit, and there's something in your mind that still thinks, oh, it's a bit, I felt like it was a bit of a test.
• 38:59
  Christine Newell: It's not that my publisher made me feel that way, but that structural edit.
• 39:02
  Christine Newell: It is a test because can you, you know, can you come up with the goods?
• 39:06
  Christine Newell: That's the biggest.
• 39:08
  Christine Newell: Thing that you face, I think is that structural edit and whether or not you can get through that.
• 39:13
  Christine Newell: Um, and or at least that's how it felt to me.
• 39:16
  Christine Newell: So getting through the structural edit and then getting my publication date, that's when it really started to feel real.
• 39:22
  Christine Newell: Of course, the offer was, I.
• 39:24
  Christine Newell: Insanely exciting, and I was so excited when I told my mom she could not understand what I was saying, and then I was so frustrated that she wasn't reacting with, you know, the amount of excitement that I thought she would, but she just had no idea what I was blabbing about.
• 39:39
  Christine Newell: I was half laughing, half crying, you know, extremely hysterical.
• 39:44
  Christine Newell: And she was just like, I, I'm, I'm really lost here.
• 39:47
  Christine Newell: Get out.
• 39:49
  Christine Newell: So, you know, telling her was an incredible moment.
• 39:52
  Christine Newell: But then you get into the hard work and the, the business side of things and then the excitement fades into the background and you just wanna do the best possible possible job you can.
• 40:02
  Christine Newell: Um, and then publication date, and then obviously yes, the delivery was so exciting and, you know, giving that book to my mom for the first time and her seeing that I had dedicated it to her and the memory of my dad.
• 40:15
  Christine Newell: Um, you know, I really wanted the book to be a tribute to them as well and everything that they had gone through and how hard they had fought in their lives.
• 40:23
  Christine Newell: So that was a very special moment for her to be able to hold it and, and see that,
• 40:28
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: that, that, that part of our story sounds very similar.
• 40:32
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Kristin.
• 40:33
  Yeah, I
• 40:34
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: dedicated the book to my parents and my sister for carrying me for all of these years.
• 40:41
  Christine Newell: Yeah.
• 40:41
  Christine Newell: That's so beautiful.
• 40:43
  Christine Newell: Yes.
• 40:43
  Christine Newell: And, and I feel that too.
• 40:44
  Christine Newell: I mean, obviously our stories are completely different, but there is, there is that underlying
• 40:49
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Yeah.
• 40:50
  Christine Newell: It's really beautiful.
• 40:51
  Christine Newell: Yeah,
• 40:52
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: it's actually, I just tangent.
• 40:54
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, it's interesting because like, I was so excited.
• 40:58
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I'm a very calm person.
• 41:00
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, but.
• 41:02
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: My sister said she didn't wanna read the book until the actual book was in her hands.
• 41:08
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: So, um, I, I wasn't part of any writer's groups or anything like that.
• 41:14
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, I wasn't getting any feedback, so it was this solitary exercise of sitting down.
• 41:21
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I, I think writing for me is.
• 41:24
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Sitting down at my desk in my underwear, um, with a, with, with a cup of coffee and many cups of coffee and just, and just riding.
• 41:33
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: And it's just, it's a very solitary, uh.
• 41:38
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Exercise and existence, but that actually suits me quite well.
• 41:43
  Christine Newell: Yes, actually I also feel the same.
• 41:46
  Christine Newell: I didn't, I wasn't part of a writer's group.
• 41:48
  Christine Newell: Um, no one read the manuscript apart from Anthony Reader when I got the manuscript appraisal.
• 41:54
  Christine Newell: And apart from, I assume, you know, the first publisher that I sent it to, no one else had read it.
• 41:59
  Christine Newell: Um, and my mom didn't read it until after it was published and on the shelf.
• 42:03
  Christine Newell: Um,
• 42:04
  Madeleine Cleary: so let's talk about what happens then when it does come out and people are starting to read it, particularly those who you might be writing about in your book.
• 42:12
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, I.
• 42:13
  Madeleine Cleary: Carly, your book has received an amazing, um, reception.
• 42:17
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, I think people have, um, or the critics have critically claimed it.
• 42:23
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, you've won awards for it.
• 42:25
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, I'm, I'm sure as well you've also probably touched the hearts and minds of lots of readers, and you've probably received lots and lots of feedback.
• 42:32
  Madeleine Cleary: How's, how's that been for you?
• 42:34
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: It's.
• 42:35
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: It's actually been really beautiful.
• 42:39
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, I think like as an author and particularly a memoirist, I think setting boundaries is really important.
• 42:48
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: But I've been really fortunate.
• 42:49
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Every message I've received from readers has been so genuinely kind and lovely, but I.
• 43:00
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: When you go into this, you don't know.
• 43:01
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: You have no idea what, what to expect.
• 43:04
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Uh, when you put your story out there.
• 43:07
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: And this is interesting, like last year I went on sabbatical from social media and made a very deliberate, uh, choice to stop sharing details about my personal life.
• 43:20
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Like I've written this book.
• 43:23
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I already felt like I've revealed enough about myself, maybe a bit too much, and I wanted to keep some parts of my life private just for me.
• 43:33
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: So now I only post things related to the book.
• 43:37
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: And having done that.
• 43:40
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I feel like I've reclaimed a deeper sense of privacy and, and a deep sense of who I am.
• 43:46
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: And I don't get on Instagram and scroll anymore, and I, I find myself being very present.
• 43:54
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, instead of thinking about, you know, taking a photo.
• 43:58
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I'm just enjoying the moment and my life has radically changed for the better.
• 44:04
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: And you know what?
• 44:05
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: So has my writing.
• 44:07
  Mm.
• 44:07
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, I love this.
• 44:09
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, this is very top topical for me at the moment because I do feel like social media, it is such a drain.
• 44:15
  Madeleine Cleary: They always say it's really important for us as authors to maintain it, but it is such a time suck, isn't it?
• 44:20
  Madeleine Cleary: And particularly, I think as a memoir, I was putting your story out there, then people probably feel the need that they wanna, they feel like they know you as well, so they're probably reaching out with good intentions.
• 44:29
  Madeleine Cleary: But that's key, isn't it?
• 44:31
  Madeleine Cleary: As a, as a author and someone who wants to maintain that privacy.
• 44:35
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Yeah, I feel like I was worried that I would put my story out there and, because I have heard a few horror stories about memoirs, um, who get stalked and what have you, but putting my story out there, I thought because of, because it's out there, are people going to think they can ask me anything they want, um, like I kind of belong to them.
• 45:05
  Mm.
• 45:05
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Uh, because my story is out in the world.
• 45:09
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Uh, but that didn't happen.
• 45:11
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Everyone's been just so beautiful.
• 45:15
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 45:16
  Madeleine Cleary: What about you, Christine?
• 45:17
  Madeleine Cleary: I mean, your book's only been out for a couple of months, but, uh, have you found social media, the contact, has that been interesting for you?
• 45:27
  Christine Newell: Yeah, look again, everything has been really positive up to this point, which I'm really grateful for.
• 45:33
  Christine Newell: Um, my biggest, I guess, concern I.
• 45:37
  Christine Newell: Was my colleagues, um, because they played a very big part in my story.
• 45:42
  Christine Newell: I worked for a very tight knit small theater company, um, and in particular my Korean colleagues.
• 45:49
  Christine Newell: Um, and I guess how they perceived the book and how they received the book, and most importantly, how they received the way that I portrayed their culture.
• 46:00
  Christine Newell: So that was my biggest concern and I was the, the most nervous about them reading it.
• 46:04
  Christine Newell: And I, when I.
• 46:07
  Christine Newell: Received a, a message from my senior colleague, Yohi, who was the senior member of the theater company, and got this beautiful kind of stamp of approval from her.
• 46:17
  Christine Newell: And she actually, after she read it, she actually wrote this beautiful long review, um, on her blog.
• 46:25
  Christine Newell: And she's, she's a very talented.
• 46:28
  Christine Newell: Performer, um, cross-cultural theater practitioner, arts advocate.
• 46:33
  Christine Newell: She's someone that I greatly respect and her opinion means a lot to me, but obviously it was even more important in this context.
• 46:40
  Christine Newell: Um, and she wrote this beautiful review.
• 46:42
  Christine Newell: I.
• 46:43
  Christine Newell: Of the book and how she had felt about how she had received it, and I just burst into tears.
• 46:49
  Christine Newell: I actually didn't realize at that point how, how nervous I was, not because I thought she would ever criticize me or, or do anything nasty, but just because I, I wanted to know that I have.
• 47:02
  Christine Newell: Done her, done them justice, that I've done Korean culture justice, that I have done my colleagues justice and, and also that I've done my family justice.
• 47:09
  Christine Newell: So yeah, I just absolutely burst into tears when I read that review and it was a massive turning point.
• 47:16
  Christine Newell: I felt just this, I felt so much lighter.
• 47:20
  Christine Newell: I didn't realize how much I was hanging onto that until it happened, and I felt like if I had her approval then the rest.
• 47:27
  Christine Newell: Everything else was okay.
• 47:29
  Christine Newell: Um, so that was huge.
• 47:32
  Christine Newell: And yeah, look, I've had some really lovely messages on social media.
• 47:36
  Christine Newell: I've had people reach out, which I love because for me, you know, it's about connection and I.
• 47:42
  Christine Newell: For me when I've really struggled, memoir is something that I've always turned to, um, reading about other people's journeys and if people who have been through similar battles, similar mental health struggles and how they've kind of come out the other side has always helped me greatly.
• 47:58
  Christine Newell: So I.
• 47:59
  Christine Newell: I really wanted to contribute to that space and I'm, I'm really honored and really thrilled when people reach out.
• 48:06
  Christine Newell: Um, and yeah, it's all been really lovely and positive so far.
• 48:10
  Christine Newell: Um, and I think it's just if someone does cross that line, I did have one email that I just wasn't too sure about, so I just tried to focus on the positive and focus on, you know, what I could give back.
• 48:22
  Christine Newell: And, um, just sent back something, uh, positive and polite and grateful that they've engaged.
• 48:28
  Christine Newell: And then I just left, left the rest.
• 48:33
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I think
• 48:34
  Christine Newell: kindness.
• 48:34
  Christine Newell: Kindness is key.
• 48:36
  Christine Newell: Yeah.
• 48:38
  Christine Newell: I think it's more just that it was just infringing slightly on, on my personal space and I thought, okay, well I just don't, I just won't engage with that.
• 48:46
  Christine Newell: There's plenty here that I can work with and I'm so grateful that this person has read my book and loved it.
• 48:50
  Christine Newell: And you know, for, for anyone to jump on social media or jump on an email and take the trouble to tell you that they've, that your book has resonated or your story has resonated with them, I think is a really beautiful thing.
• 49:03
  Christine Newell: But it is, you know, it is also about maintaining those boundaries.
• 49:06
  Christine Newell: Yeah.
• 49:08
  Madeleine Cleary: Absolutely, you have to also protect yourself.
• 49:10
  Madeleine Cleary: But it's so lovely to hear the positive reception to both your books, and I'm not at all surprised we have to wrap this up, which I'm really, really sad about.
• 49:17
  Madeleine Cleary: But before we do, um, Carly, you are a Chapters for Change Ambassador, I believe?
• 49:24
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 49:24
  Madeleine Cleary: And there's a readathon happening.
• 49:26
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Yes.
• 49:27
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: The ONG for Chapters Change is in July, and Chapters for Change is an amazing not-for-profit organization who raised money to help literacy four children,, in Cambodia.
• 49:42
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: So it's a, it's a fantastic initiative and I'm really proud and honored to be part of that.
• 49:48
  Madeleine Cleary: Amazing.
• 49:48
  Madeleine Cleary: So we'll put up in our show notes, um, where you can participate in the July readathon.
• 49:53
  Madeleine Cleary: That sounds like an amazing initiative, and so we really encourage everyone to, um, get on board with that.
• 49:59
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, before we do finish, two quick questions for you both.
• 50:02
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, recommendation for a debut novel.
• 50:05
  Madeleine Cleary: Doesn't have to be a memoir, but it can be Christine.
• 50:08
  Christine Newell: Oh, um, yes, I'd like to recommend actually, um, um, I will recommend a memoir'cause I think, you know, I'll just stay, stay on one theme.
• 50:17
  Christine Newell: Um, and it's called Bloomer.
• 50:19
  Christine Newell: It's by a, um, an author called Carol Lefevre.
• 50:22
  Christine Newell: I hope I've pronounced that correctly.
• 50:24
  Christine Newell: Um, and it's called Bloomer and it's a really beautiful, I've recently started reading it, I haven't finished yet, but it's a really beautiful reflection on aging and I think it's another really important.
• 50:35
  Christine Newell: Topic, um, that tends to be shied away from.
• 50:40
  Christine Newell: I'm seeing
• 50:40
  Madeleine Cleary: this everywhere actually at the moment.
• 50:42
  Christine Newell: Yeah, well look, I had the privilege of being on a panel with Carol at the Manly Writers Festival, and I just found her conversation and everything that she contributed.
• 50:51
  Christine Newell: So enlightening and so important.
• 50:54
  Christine Newell: So valid and, and just so beautiful.
• 50:56
  Christine Newell: And when I started reading it, it just felt like a, a, a really big warm hug.
• 51:00
  Christine Newell: So I, I'm gonna recommend bloomer.
• 51:02
  Christine Newell: Yeah,
• 51:03
  Madeleine Cleary: that's what we need in the world.
• 51:04
  Madeleine Cleary: Lots of warm hugs, I think Harley.
• 51:08
  Madeleine Cleary: I,
• 51:08
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: I dunno if you experienced this, Christine, but I couldn't read for most of last year, um, which sounds so antithetical to, you know, as a writer, but it was like my mind just had too many tabs open.
• 51:22
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: But the first novel, yeah, the first novel I read was Catherine Wheel by Liz Evans.
• 51:30
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: It's a psychological thriller, but the writing is so beautiful and it's also really taught, and Liz has this gift of being able to layer a story like every time you think you've got it, she adds another thread, and then she just calls more together, so masterfully, and she also happens to be an incredibly beautiful person.
• 51:55
  Madeleine Cleary: Two great recommendations there.
• 51:57
  Madeleine Cleary: We'll also include those in our show notes.
• 52:00
  Madeleine Cleary: And to finish up, um, we always ask our guests to provide one last top tip and you've already both given so many.
• 52:08
  Madeleine Cleary: But, um, we will get you to finish off on that.
• 52:11
  Madeleine Cleary: So I'll start with Christine.
• 52:14
  Christine Newell: Look, I'll go back to, uh, the advice that I was given in a memoir writing workshop, which was your motivation.
• 52:21
  Christine Newell: 'cause I think it's just an important check in a way to check in with yourself also to make sure that you're not going off track with your story.
• 52:28
  Christine Newell: And also perhaps not get letting any personal, uh, feelings get too out of hand too.
• 52:34
  Christine Newell: So it's just a great little check-in.
• 52:35
  Christine Newell: And I used that all the way through, through the process.
• 52:39
  Madeleine Cleary: That's a great one.
• 52:40
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 52:40
  Madeleine Cleary: Understanding why you're writing it and what the purpose of that particular word, paragraph chapter is really important.
• 52:47
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, for sure.
• 52:48
  Madeleine Cleary: Carly, can I sheet and give three really quickly?
• 52:52
  Madeleine Cleary: Absolutely.
• 52:54
  Madeleine Cleary: I will be listening to, I'm very here for your three topics, Carly.
• 52:59
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: The first is to read voluminously.
• 53:02
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: The second is to get the most ruthless feedback you can get, because that's the only way you can hone.
• 53:10
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Or any craft and to look after your body, your eyesight, your neck, your back, like I'm only a couple of years away from 50 and I feel 95.
• 53:21
  Yeah, that's a good one.
• 53:22
  Christine Newell: Yeah,
• 53:23
  Madeleine Cleary: that is.
• 53:23
  Madeleine Cleary: I actually just had a remedial massage yesterday and the, the masseuse,'cause I've got terrible lower back pain.
• 53:29
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm 34 and my back pain the last year has just gotten terrible and she kept totting and she was like my.
• 53:37
  Christine Newell: We just productive, isn't it?
• 53:38
  Christine Newell: Like it doesn't help you relax if someone is, is touching or saying, oh, so tight.
• 53:44
  Christine Newell: I get that all the time.
• 53:45
  Christine Newell: You're so tight and it's like, yeah, thanks.
• 53:48
  Christine Newell: It's like why are your muscles clicking like this?
• 53:50
  Christine Newell: Yeah.
• 53:52
  Christine Newell: Yeah.
• 53:53
  Christine Newell: But finding a healthy way to work, I think that's so important.
• 53:56
  Christine Newell: Yeah.
• 53:56
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 53:56
  Madeleine Cleary: Great.
• 53:57
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 53:57
  Madeleine Cleary: Into our underwear.
• 53:58
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 53:59
  Madeleine Cleary: In your underwear.
• 54:00
  Madeleine Cleary: It's a bit cold down south to, to work in our underwear though.
• 54:02
  Madeleine Cleary: I think it's a bit warmer
• 54:05
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: being in Queensland.
• 54:06
  Carly-Jay Metcalfe: Um, I guess I have that luxury.
• 54:10
  Madeleine Cleary: Well, thank you so much Carly and Christine.
• 54:14
  Madeleine Cleary: It's just been a great chat.
• 54:15
  Madeleine Cleary: I really appreciate it much for having you,
• 54:17
  Madeleine.
• 54:18
  Thanks Madeleine.
• 54:18
  Thank you for listening to the Book Deal podcast.
• 54:21
  If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the pod so you can receive updates as soon as our new S drop and to keep up to date with what the pod is doing.
• 54:30
  You can also find us on Instagram.