Latest / In the Valley of Giants / Let My People Eat | Josh Berkowitz | ITVOG #39

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Let My People Eat | Josh Berkowitz | ITVOG #39 · In the Valley of Giants

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He called me up and he said, you know, I was waiting for my order
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and waiting for my order and waiting for my order.
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And because I was waiting, I missed going to shul and saying
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kaddish and. I'm sorry, I shouldn't.
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I shouldn't. I shouldn't laugh.
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And therefore you should have to say Kaddish soon.
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What? Therefore you should have to say
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Kaddish Yes? That's crazy.
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Hello everyone. Today we're joined by Josh
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Berkowitz. Josh Berkowitz is a Jewish
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restaurant owner, one of the owners of Edenwalk in New York,
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and we discuss all things Jewish restaurant.
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What's the complications of having a restaurant, but
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especially Jewish one with Kashris and regulations and
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dealing with maybe some difficult customers and how do
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you manage that, especially in the Jewish field?
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We had a really fun and informative conversation.
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This is really light for me. I enjoyed it.
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I hope you do too. Take care.
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Josh Berkowitz, thank you so much for joining us on the show
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today. By Dorfman How are you?
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I'm doing great. I'm super excited to talk to the
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owner of Eden Walk. Even though I've never had
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Menachem bring me any Eden Walk food, I hear it's excellent.
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When I visited him, I bought him some food.
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I'm I'm going to yell at him later.
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Well, he, well, he never. I gave him a salami sandwich,
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but he never gave me Eden Walk food.
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He changed. His life.
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I did save his life. OK, I want to jump right into
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it. So everyone chooses A
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profession. I was silly enough to choose
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Rabonis as the way to have a profession.
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For all you people out there, it's it's only worth it if
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you're into the spiritual part of it, which Hashemi and
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financially now, but being a Jewish business owner.
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Wow, what he. Jerked you for half a second.
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So my father was a popular rabbi for many many years and he
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always said the one thing we cannot do is your bonus.
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Of course my brother-in-law, you know he's why you and and has a
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shul, but that's I digress with that.
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Well, most rabbis don't make money, but we know about that.
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Unless we're Reformed and then we make a ton of money.
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But you decided to open up a restaurant and you couldn't be a
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good Jewish boy and be a lawyer or a doctor, an Indian chief.
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So why? Why open up a restaurant, Josh?
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So I always had a passion for food.
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My father, as a side fund, I guess you'd say, had a
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restaurant in Manhattan, a dairy cafe called Cafe 123, around the
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corner from Stern. It unfortunately no longer
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exists. So I grew up in the food world.
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When I was after Chanel for Saint Vet, my former partner
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called me up and said, you know, I have this restaurant.
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We also have a place upstate. My regular manager is, you know,
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going upstate to manage, you know, the place upstate.
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So could you do me a favor? Could you, you know, run this?
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I said sure, but I mean, I've run a restaurant, but not
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Chinese food before. I said how hard could it be?
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He said no problem. You know, the manager is going
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to be there for a couple days with you.
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Make sure you know everything and everything will be fine.
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I said okay, Kevin, when should I be there?
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So he said be there, you know, 10:30 on whatever day it was.
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I don't remember. So I come with a nice little
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notepad and you know, ready to take notes.
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And I'm here for about half hour, maybe an hour, but I don't
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even think it was that much. And the guy said, I think you
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have everything pretty much straight enjoy.
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And he walks out the door and he's like.
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Uh huh. OK, but and, and why did you
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choose that to be your profession?
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I mean, shouldn't you know right then and there?
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Oh my gosh, this is going to be hard.
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I you know what we love? Challenges.
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We are the Amanivsar, as you know, but we're, we're, we love
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challenges. We love challenging things.
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We love, you know, taking things on that people are gonna say,
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oh, you're gonna fail. It doesn't know why you're even
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trying. So I said, you know what I'm not
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gonna say? I'm not right, Right.
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OK. And did you, did you love it
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right away a like visit? It was exciting because it was
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challenging. Did but you already said that
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you had that connection with food beforehand because of your
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father. Was your father's restaurant
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still active at that time, or did it already close down?
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Chanel. He sold it.
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OK, so you don't have to answer this, but did he sell it?
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Did did he sell it because things were like he wasn't as
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successful as he wanted to be with it, or is he just kind of
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done? I think he was kind of done.
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Landlords unfortunately, are sometimes a little difficult.
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And I think, you know, it was a, it was a large, I actually know
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the company that owns the building.
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I do work for them now, but they're a huge, huge company and
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they don't care about the mom and pop.
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They want to just, you know, collect the rent check and you
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know, they want the big Starbucks and Dunkin' Donuts and
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stuff like that. They want the big money.
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They don't want every month be like, hey, you know what the
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renters do. And you know, 'cause Starbucks
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and and the big companies, they just send the check from
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corporate. It's not getting handwritten by,
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you know, Yayli over here. Did your father tell you like,
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hey, definitely do this or you're crazy?
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I mean, he had a lot of experience in the business.
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He knew my former partner because at the time he was
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dating his wife, who was in stern.
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So my father was, you know, quantity.
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OK, but what did, what did your father tell you when you were
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like, yeah, I'm going to go into the restaurant business?
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I don't remember, probably You're crazy.
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Which probably just made you want to do it more.
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Exactly. You love a challenge, right?
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I suppose so. OK, so you got into you got into
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the Jewish restaurant business because it was a challenge.
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And how long have you been in the business?
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How long has Eden Walk been pumping out spring rolls?
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Eden Walk has been here since 99.
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I've been here since 2001, after Shinabet.
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OK. And in that time, did you ever
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have a desire to expand on your own?
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Do your like your own branding, leave the restaurant business?
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Are we always like, oh, this is it?
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No, there are times where, you know, I think, what would I when
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I grow up, what do I want to do? Because you're still just coming
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back from Shauna. Bet you're still just riding
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that that high. OK, interesting.
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What's the biggest misconception that you think that civilians,
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you know, just don't understand about the restaurant business?
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That it's a walk in the park that they see, you know a
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seamless model or you know, everything's done, you know
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comes out in 5 minutes. Oh of course you know they
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anyone could do that. You don't need, you know, train
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people to to do anything meaning.
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And what is that you got meaning?
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To dissect a part of a of a cow you know is not you kind of know
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what you're doing. Otherwise you're literally, I
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hate to use it. You're going to butcher it and
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it's going to be expensive. Cut.
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That just went down the trash. Has that happened?
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That's. Why I don't?
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OK. Do you think that because of
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that misconception, people treat the restaurant business
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differently as consumers? Unfortunately, sometimes, yes,
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there are people that come in and say why is everything not
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ready? Why is everything not in the
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golden platter? And like everything else, it
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takes time. It's not done.
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And I'm assuming that there's also many steps in the process.
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You have to procure your own meat and all of your own
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materials and you have to have a chef, you know, and get
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everything streamlined. OK, So if you think that it's
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sad and causes negative feedback or people don't understand
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enough about the restaurant business, so why don't Do you
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think something should be done in order to teach people to have
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a car? So toast to have appreciation
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for what all restaurant owners are doing, be Jewish gentile and
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just appreciate the fact that a lot of time and care and work
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went into it. Have you ever told that to a
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client? And the amount of hours that go
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into it. So we're open daily from 11:00
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to 9:00, but the amount of work that gets done before that time
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and after is hours. Meaning, for example, there
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there are restaurants that open at 5:00 in the afternoon and
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close at 10:00, but they do not get there at 5:00 in the
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afternoon. They're there from 10:00 in the
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morning, preparing everything to make sure that you are happy
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when you walk in at 5. O'clock OK, When do you open up?
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11:00 No, when do you open up? You're saying that that's what's
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people come in. When do you open up?
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I usually get here 10/10/15 in the morning.
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And when do people close up? When is the shop completely
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closed and like the last employee has left?
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840 Five, 9:00. OK.
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That's when I sit down and do paperwork and stuff like that
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and then my wife says why are you home so late?
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Yeah, when do you get home last? Night was early, I was home by
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9:30. The night before was 10/30.
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Does it follow you? Since you're self-employed?
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Does it follow you? Are you?
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Are you always thinking about your business?
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I always tell one of my faroosas that the best time for me is on
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the airplane because it doesn't matter who you are, I can't be
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reached. Yeah, I hear that.
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So going on vacation is fine, but the amount of phone calls
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that I could receive potentially when I'm on vacation, I might as
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well just not be on vacation. But you've built your system.
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What? What do people need to ask you?
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You have your chef, you have your waiters, you have your
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supply lines, you know, you have your cashiers.
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There's always people that want to change something and I'm
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happier that they ask questions than not perfect.
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Do those changes happen often? Yes they do.
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Can you give an example so I know what you're talking about?
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You know, I, I want to order XY and Z, but I don't want to
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prepare this way. I want it, you know, with this
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and this, you know, different modifications, stuff like that.
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And to you, it sounds simple, but listen, they want to make
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sure that I'm not going to lose money if they're adding XY and Z
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or giving out XY and Z. Do you make modifications to
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your food all the time? Does your menu constantly
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changing? Try our best to be flexible and
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not be rigid so the clients are always happy.
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Is it difficult to make the client always happy, Josh?
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Thumb more than ever. OK.
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Why don't you? Can you share like a biggest
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disaster moment then in the industry?
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Are you sitting down? I am sitting down.
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So I specifically remember the story that I had to leave early
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for some reason. I don't remember why, but some
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guy, his delivery was running late.
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Listen, unfortunately things happen.
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I'm sorry. And I, I hope I'm not over less
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in Harvard by saying this because I'm not going to say his
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name. And if he listens to this, oops.
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But somehow he got my cell phone number and he called me up and
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he said, you know, I was waiting for my order and waiting for my
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order and waiting for my order. And because I was waiting, I
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missed going to shul and saying kaddish and there.
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I'm sorry, I should, I should, I should laugh.
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And therefore you should have to say kaddish soon.
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What therefore you should have to say?
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Oh, that's crazy. Correctly.
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Is that OK? So for the Gentile for for.
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Yeah. So for you're.
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It's good that you asked if I was sitting down.
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So for our gentiles watching. So Kaddish is a special prayer
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that you say when a parent or sibling close loved one passes
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away that you say in synagogue. So by him wishing that that
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would happen to Josh, he's basically saying, I hope that
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God forbid that one of his family members gets checked so
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that he would have to say it. That is the craziest.
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That's the the person. Look, I mean, your food must be
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that good, Josh. I mean, that's the only logical
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explanation. I actually called a bunch of
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rabbis that night and I said I just got cursed.
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He did, yeah. Yeah, that's that's a pretty big
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of era. There's a very knowledgeable ruh
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who made aliyah since then, Rabbi Haber, who teaches in
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Vasarit for women, or as I call sorry, non vasarit, Shalavim for
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women. I call Shalavuot and my daughter
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always fringes when I say that. Who said that we are not allowed
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to give out curses and God does not listen to people that curse
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others? So I don't think I slept that
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night 'cause I was, I was shaking.
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Like how could one waste something like that on another
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person, another. Especially for that reason, and
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I don't mean to make light of it, but like, especially for
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that reason. That's ridiculous.
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How? Messed up are your priorities
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that you know you're willing to forego?
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Go on a temple, shul, whatever you want to call it, and saying
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kaddish for your dinner or lunch or whatever meal it could be.
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I don't care what it is, but that is really a new level.
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Did it disturb you because of the curse or did it disturb you
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because someone did that? And that's how low, you know,
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part of the Jewish people is that they made such a comment.
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All of the above. I I was just, I was so shaken
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that someone could be that angry overfoot and now I'm getting.
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Angry. Did you tell them?
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Did you tell them like, hey, that like after the fact that
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that was really hurtful? I don't think they've heard
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again, but I'm fine with that because I, I don't, I don't want
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to deal with people like that. That's just, that's disgusting.
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Well, why though? I mean, that's a Jew.
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Don't you want that person to repent?
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I do, but that I I hate to say it, but that's what Yom kippers
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for I if if you want, is it? My mind is the Rambam, the
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Rambam. The Rambam clearly outlines
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certain things that are needed to 1 needs to do in order to get
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that repentance, in order to get that true vote.
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And if it's against a person in this case it was against you.
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They need to be mifias you. They need to appease you well.
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They never called back. Did they ever come order again?
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I don't believe so. I think I.
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Have you seen them? I don't think so, but I
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personally feel that in retrospect, they were so
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embarrassed and and maybe they told their spouse if they were
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married, I don't know. And they just got ridiculed, not
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made fun of. But you know, how dare you say
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something like that? Why?
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Why do you say that they that they got embarrassed?
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How do you know that? Because I was embarrassed that
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they said something like that. Have you ever heard of the story
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of concept bar comps? The Josh, Yeah, I'm not so sure.
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Look, the mission of us, there's a chapter in ethics of the
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fathers in the Sages which say that person should always be Don
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Lacafsos. You should always give a person
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the benefit of the doubt, which is very sorely misunderstood.
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I had once a really a, a a very serious Sinner and you know, he
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he was dating a non Jew at the time and he told me he's like,
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you know, I'm doing the right thing and you didn't give me the
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benefit of the doubt. And so you you have violated
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this mission. So I said, well, I don't know,
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you kind of have to read the whole thing with all the
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medieval commentaries. So have you read Ruben Yona?
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And he's like, well, I'm sure Benion agrees with me because,
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you know, anyways, this is how it works, everybody.
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So there are three tiers. The top tier is its Sadiq tier,
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a pious person. So if if you see a pious person
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do something wrong, you're supposed to be done with the
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cuffs plus, which means that if there's any doubt that he did
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the wrong thing, that he didn't do the wrong thing.
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And if you're sure that he did do the wrong thing, see, it's
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possible. If you're sure that he did do
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the wrong thing, then assume that he felt terrible about it
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and he repented. And the next day he's a
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different man. If you see someone that's 5050,
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right? He's a just a normal Joe like I
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am, right? So then if you're not sure if we
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did the right thing or not, then we dominate the cops.
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Give him the benefit of the doubt.
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And if you know he did the right thing, we don't know if he
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repented or not. But if you see a Sinner and
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you're almost sure that he did the right thing, but you're not
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totally sure, assume that he did the wrong thing because that's
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what he probably did, right. So I, I I really.
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Look, you're you're clearly a very pious person, Josh, that
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you're giving this person the benefit of the doubt that he
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has. He feels the same as you.
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But this is something, this is a pet peeve that I have, which is,
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is that people are drones. This is a big thing in my life.
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If I had to sum up my entire life's mission until one thing,
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it's to make people not, not droning, not hive minding,
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meaning that we're just on autopilot.
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Yeah, exactly. Don't be.
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We just, we just we're we're we just react.
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We go through life. We're not.
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We're all about the next hit, the the next pleasure thing, the
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next goal. People don't think about the
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moment, which is why we're so blessed to have a Gemara that
16:30
will never let us go. And 80 different commentaries
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and every single puzzle and how you shy, it just keeps on
16:35
talking and talking and talk because there's so much wisdom,
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right? There's so much to think about.
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That's why we have safer mission life.
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So I hope that a person that would say something like that,
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which I can't even fathom, I've had people do very horrible
16:47
things to me personally. I've never wished anything like
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that about someone. I would hope, I would hope that
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that person would reflect, but I'm not.
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I'm not so sure that's that's true, but I hope you're right in
16:58
any event. But it's also something, in my
17:01
opinion, that's petty, meaning if I swindled yours, petty $500
17:06
million, it's money. It's a lot, a lot, a lot of
17:08
money. Because for a lot of you, she
17:10
lives with that money. But that's one thing.
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This is dinner, this is food. Hopefully you're going to make a
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broth on it and elevate it and make it holy.
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I don't know, right. So there's actually there's
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unfortunately he passed away, but there was a almost
17:24
restaurant owner in Queens. I knew him a couple of years
17:27
back. He passed away from cancer of a
17:31
Shalom is the Shalmash Avenelia. So he was telling me how he
17:34
almost made a deal with this prominent business owner to
17:38
create his restaurant and he shared with me all the details
17:43
the show won't go through now that he was swindled at the very
17:45
last moment, he was really swindled and the whole deal got
17:48
tanked. So he said that night he was
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just so angry and and he was like, you know, I hope that that
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business just burns to the ground.
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That's what he dabbed him for. And he was so upset that he
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dabbed him for that. Immediately after he said that,
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he just repented. He was like, he felt so bad
18:03
about that. But he but there's a sad part of
18:05
the story, but it's it's bittersweet.
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The next morning, you know, he watches the news and that
18:10
business burned down up to the ground that night.
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And what he took from that number 1, he asked forgiveness
18:17
from that person, which I think is a huge thing.
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But two, he was like, you must always watch what you say, like,
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and that that's what he took from that, you know?
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And it's absolutely true, you know?
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Yeah. No, 100%.
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You know that as you know as parents as as just, it's more or
18:34
less that you just got to you never know what you say that
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actually God will listen to and pause to happen.
18:40
Right. Al TIF da Pella Satan did not
18:43
open the mouth of the Satan. OK, so now you're in the
18:47
business challenge. You're enjoying it.
18:50
It's getting bigger. You've had your disasters, which
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this is one of them, I suppose. OK, But this is for only two
18:56
generations down. Josh, I happen to know that you
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have some great kids. How come you're not encouraging
19:01
them to go into the business? No, no.
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Why not? Just as I said before, my father
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said none of us can go into the rabbinate.
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I told all my kids, not a chance.
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Why is that? It's not what what it used to
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be. What it used to be versus what
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it is now. In terms of there weren't always
19:21
a million different options and thing called Uber Eats that you
19:25
literally can get anything you want delivered to you at any
19:28
times. Also the hours.
19:32
The hours are just, you know, very challenging creates, you
19:36
know, sometimes, you know, unhappy children, unhappy
19:40
spouses because you're not at their birthday party, you're not
19:44
at, but I got to be at work. You know, I got to be here, I
19:46
got to be there. I'm running an event.
19:48
I have a party that I'm doing, you know, all these different
19:50
things that free not a hell, I'm going to say a not healthy
19:55
balance of being home and being at work.
19:57
Your average, you know, person that's a lawyer or whatever you
20:01
know in the beginning. They're working like a dog, you
20:03
know, they're in the office 18 hours a day, but eventually that
20:07
stops when they make partner associate, you know, whatever it
20:11
is in the food industry, it's not so simple.
20:14
It's really not so simple. But hasn't it always been that
20:17
way? Being the Uber Eats thing, which
20:19
I actually don't know why that makes things worse, You'll
20:20
expand on in a moment. But the hours, weren't the hours
20:23
always crazy like you say? That almost is like it's a new
20:25
thing. The hours were always crazy,
20:28
yes, but as the family grows, you got to be there.
20:31
And you know, when they're little, they don't really
20:34
remember or whatever. But once they hit a certain age
20:38
and you're not there for their baseball game, their birthday
20:43
party in school there, you know, stuff like that.
20:46
Oh, you can't take me to, you know, whatever it it's
20:49
challenging. Do you have regrets?
20:51
There are times. Would you would you tell being a
20:54
Remy? Definitely.
20:56
There are times when I wish I was there more, but I blame
20:59
myself more for that actually. Meaning when I was younger, not
21:03
that I'm super old or anything, but when I was, you know, when I
21:08
was a teenager, I always stole my father's T-shirts because
21:10
they were like the best. And that's where I wear under
21:12
this. So I think I own shirts that are
21:14
older than me. My father has the best taste in
21:21
T-shirts, but the As at least in rabbinics.
21:26
So I remember when I just got married and when I had my first
21:30
two kids. So there were definitely time
21:32
periods where I was learning, you know, to run 19 hours a day,
21:37
20 hours a day, sleeping for a couple hours.
21:39
And I was pretty much it being home for like half an hour when
21:41
I was in the mirror. Remember when I was in the
21:43
mirror? And I told her, Usher Weiss, my
21:45
learning schedule. Just saw him.
21:47
He looked at me. I yeah, yeah, he's fantastic.
21:50
I'm right now he's in Europe. I just spoke to him yesterday.
21:52
But it was funny what he told me like I was, you know, as a, as a
21:56
young 20 year old guy. And I just share with my Rebbe,
21:59
you know, who is one of the biggest rabbis in existence, my
22:02
really rigorous learning schedule.
22:03
I was expecting that like, wow, good for you a moment.
22:06
The first thing he said to me, he said, no.
22:08
He said, wow, your wife must be a bit.
22:10
Well, no, the first thing he said is in your wife's OK with
22:12
this. And I said yes.
22:14
And then he said, your wife is a tremendous Zadakis.
22:17
That's all he said, which is which is absolutely apropos,
22:21
which is absolutely true. She is.
22:24
And whenever I ask him about a big question, well, almost the
22:27
first thing always the question is what is the rabbit something?
22:29
But in any event, I think going back in rabbinics, it's not
22:32
about being the most sagely guy with the longest white beard.
22:36
It's not it Adam. I think part of rabbinics is
22:39
trying to hone in always, what does God want you to do?
22:42
And you're in a leadership position.
22:44
So just to be extra sensitive to that.
22:45
So that time that at times means closing the safer.
22:49
That means that means not learning, right?
22:51
That means that means not performing.
22:52
Sometimes that means not learning, sometimes that means
22:55
playing with your kids and showing other people that you
22:56
are playing with their kids and throwing them up in the air.
22:58
So I do have regrets, but maybe different than you.
23:02
Maybe you'd go back and you wouldn't do it different.
23:04
But I think in certain parts of my life I've learned like I
23:07
think I would have go back and and do it a little bit
23:09
differently, at least personally.
23:10
That was a good flip. OK, what about Ubereats?
23:12
Why do? Why do?
23:14
Why does Ubereats make things more complicated?
23:16
Because all the online platforms are, are complicated things.
23:22
Because I hate to use the expression, but when you're the
23:25
only game in town, you know, people don't have a choice if
23:29
they want something. I mean, not that we're putting
23:31
out an inferior product, but if they want to eat out of they
23:34
want to get same, they by default have to come here.
23:37
Uber Eats has expanded everything.
23:39
I'm not saying Uber Eats. I'm saying all the online
23:41
platforms. I don't want to get sued by Uber
23:43
Eats that you could literally order from anywhere.
23:48
You know, you could die. So I'm in New Rochelle right
23:50
now. I could have stuff Uber from
23:53
Manhattan, I could have stuff to live free Queens, you know,
23:56
Muncie, like anywhere you want versus before.
23:59
Yeah. But on the flip side, that
24:00
doesn't that doesn't that just encourage your your competition
24:05
like you competing with others, meaning because of Uber Eats,
24:08
you can deliver it to someone that might not have come to your
24:10
restaurant. No.
24:11
Yeah, but I feel like people are also expanding what they want.
24:16
That Chinese is Chinese. Chinese food is Jewish as
24:19
gefilte fish. We all know this.
24:21
That's true. So the classic joke is So what
24:25
did the Jews do without Chinese food before?
24:28
You know, for 2000 years. Well, that's what we had month
24:30
for. I wanted to taste like General
24:34
Tso's chicken. No, but seriously, Yeah.
24:40
So why doesn't that just encourage you being able to
24:42
compete with with other with other restaurants that are much
24:45
farther away than you are from your, you know?
24:48
As I said, you know, if you wanted dinner and you were too
24:51
lazy to cook, not you, but you know anyone like, OK, you know
24:55
what? I'll just get a chicken and
24:56
broccoli or whatever it is OK Versus now you go on the app and
25:01
you say too lazy to cook and you scroll and you say do I want
25:05
Chinese? Do I want a burger?
25:07
Do I want Mexican? Do I want a steak?
25:09
Do I you know so much so many options that are at your
25:12
disposal versus in other neighborhoods.
25:15
There could be other Chinese places.
25:17
So if. And so and and they're ordering
25:20
from all those other Chinese places or, or they're being able
25:24
to remind themselves as they scroll.
25:25
Oh, I do actually want a burger. I don't want Chinese food.
25:27
Do you think that's what's going on?
25:29
OK, well then let's make this much harder then.
25:31
Let's assume there wasn't any Uber Eats.
25:33
Yeah. So that's that's to assume all
25:34
your business to be doing so much better since there aren't
25:37
all these people scrolling. Well, that's predicated on
25:40
something else that you said, which is is that you're the only
25:42
place in town. Now I look, I live in Israel.
25:46
So there's two things you'll always find in Israel.
25:49
The Jews are really good at these two things.
25:50
Well, well, I mean, obviously that but, but no one is is a
25:55
synagogue or yeshiva place of study.
25:58
You know, you'll fall down and anywhere between your feet and
26:00
your head, you'll probably be one or two synagogues.
26:03
OK. And a place to eat, doesn't
26:04
matter what it is, but there's a place to eat.
26:06
There's tons of competition here in America.
26:09
Look, I grew up in Silver Spring, MD, so I remember that
26:12
there was like, you know, one restaurant that was within 3
26:15
minutes and all the other ones were 25 minute drive away.
26:17
And there's only three to choose from.
26:19
But I feel like that's especially with the decadence of
26:22
Jewish culture, especially Orthodox culture in America,
26:26
which I actually have a problem with.
26:27
But I'd imagine that you it's not the same, Josh.
26:30
I imagine you have restaurants popping up around where you are.
26:33
Am I wrong? There's a relatively new place
26:36
that opened up that a year and a half ago, two years ago.
26:39
So that, yeah. What do they saw?
26:40
That is, they sell burgers and wings and bar food.
26:45
OK, so even if we got rid of Uber Eats, it wouldn't be so
26:48
simple. Do you think all restaurants are
26:49
suffering because of that? Like this expansion of just so
26:52
much food and types of food I do speak.
26:55
Does that bother you? Owners and things are not what
26:57
they used to be. Does that bother you culturally?
27:00
I mean, financially, obviously it does because it's much harder
27:02
to make a living. But like culturally, does that
27:04
bother you? I mean, rabbinically it bothers
27:06
me a lot. But what about you?
27:07
Does it bother you culturally? You're saying rabbinically in
27:11
terms of Hasaga's ghoul? Or what I mean, well, it
27:14
depends. Hasaga's Ghoul, that's a much
27:16
harder question because is this burger restaurant like a Chinese
27:20
restaurant? I don't know.
27:21
I feel like it would be a problem, but I have to think
27:23
about it. But let's I feel like.
27:27
Sorry, One thing about Hasaga's Ghoul is before we open, I
27:33
wasn't around, but I'm being told that we were actually
27:36
brought to a Jewish court because there was a deli up the
27:38
block and they weren't happy that another kosher restaurant
27:42
was opening. Yes, totally.
27:44
You know, different type of food, whatever.
27:47
And then there's a competitor of mine that he's not a nice
27:52
person, but he does put on a nice face to the world that I
27:58
saw him and I said, oh, you know, I heard you want to open
28:01
nearby. I don't think, you know, you're
28:03
allowed to. And he's not Jewish.
28:05
And he's like, don't worry, even if I open there's, you know, you
28:09
won't win the Jewish court anyway.
28:10
So doesn't make a difference. Don't even waste your time.
28:12
Well, OK, so let's let's pull back.
28:15
Let's pull back. This is interesting.
28:16
So in this delicatessen that you were in basin with, you're in
28:20
Jewish court with. So who won that case?
28:23
Did you win? So once again, I was not part of
28:25
Eden Walk at the time, but I'm guessing they did win because
28:28
because we opened, he didn't want us to open at all.
28:31
So, so then what? Doesn't that mean that this
28:34
competitor frenemy that you have is correct, That you're right,
28:38
you wouldn't win a Jewish court? Well, he want he has a Chinese
28:41
place or he runs a Chinese place.
28:43
Chinese place. OK, Why wouldn't you?
28:45
No. So then why?
28:46
Why wouldn't you win a Jewish court?
28:47
That sounds like massive rule to me.
28:49
That sounds like pushing you out to me.
28:51
So wow. And.
28:52
Once again this kind of from a non Jewish person.
28:55
OK, well, let's pivot to talk about a totally different topic.
28:57
By the way, Josh, you said this would take 5 minutes.
28:59
We're way over that. So I see I was right yet again,
29:02
cautious. That's not it.
29:05
I'm enjoying it. I'm learning, OK, the cautious
29:08
industry. So in order to get in order to
29:10
become kosher, now that must be a very easy and seamless
29:14
process. Would you agree?
29:16
Yeah, sure. The fact that you only have
29:18
pretty much 3 distributors to take order from, it's.
29:23
Seamless. So to unpack, unpack that a
29:26
little bit. What?
29:26
What do US civilians not understand about the cautious
29:29
industry? That obviously I'm not going to
29:33
stop and shop for Costco or whatever and, and buying Purdue
29:36
chicken that it has to be procured from a kosher
29:42
distributor and sometimes spaces run out of stuff.
29:49
I, I don't know if you heard, you know, current events, but
29:53
the plant formerly known as Roboskin Agri Star in, in
29:57
Postville, Iowa had a massive fire 2 days ago, I think it was.
30:02
And they're going to be offline for quite a bit.
30:05
And they are, according to many, the largest domestic
30:11
slaughterhouse. So if you take that offline,
30:14
that is going to create a giant, what's the word supply chain
30:19
issue to your supermarket butcher shop.
30:22
To everywhere, OK, unpack it forever.
30:24
There's more involved in the conference industry.
30:27
I mean, you said that there's three major conscious
30:28
distributors. Do all of them fit the cost for
30:31
specifications that are deemed acceptable to the court that
30:35
gives you a Contra certification?
30:38
Now that is a loaded question because yes, so we are into the
30:42
bottle Queens and there are certain brands that we are not
30:48
allowed to use. I will not mention them because
30:50
it doesn't make a difference. But there are certain brands
30:52
that we are not allowed to use because I'm guessing they looked
30:55
into it and they deemed whatever they are doing in that plant
31:00
factory, whatever you want to call it, is not up to the Vada
31:03
Queen stamp. So I've have a question for a
31:05
long time, but I don't think you can answer it.
31:07
Maybe you can. I've been really wanting to
31:09
speak to a rabbi that that specializes in cautious, which
31:13
is not my particular part of expertise.
31:15
But there's a Gemara in Gettin base them at base.
31:18
It appears in a few other times as shots as well.
31:20
Hulen, for example, adeka naman berisurin, which means that a
31:24
person can tell you whether something is kosher or not.
31:27
And the Gemara is quite clear that you believe almost anyone.
31:31
There's a few, you know, boxes you have to tick.
31:34
But once those boxes have been ticked, you believe that person
31:37
if something is kosher or not. What is this idea that there are
31:41
some heksheram that you can use and there are some heksheram
31:44
that you cannot use? What is that?
31:46
Where does that come from? So as I said, I'm guessing I'm
31:49
hoping that they looked into X factory plant, whatever you want
31:53
to call it and they deemed whatever they are saying is
31:57
acceptable out of this plant is not up to the standards of you
32:03
know, the kosher organization that I am certified under.
32:06
Is that, do you think that that's above and beyond?
32:08
Is that what we call a humra? Is that above and beyond, Josh?
32:11
I don't know. Neither do I OK, But I can.
32:13
Tell you a story because the Rabbi Maishul passed away about
32:18
15 years ago and he was in kashras for many, many, many
32:22
years. And I think the next topic that
32:24
we're going to discuss will will prove this.
32:26
So he used to give a hush kaha on a lot of raw materials out of
32:31
China. So one day a company out of
32:35
China calls them up and says we want you to give us a
32:40
supervision on our strawberry flavor.
32:43
So he said OK no problem can you fax me?
32:47
It was before e-mail, can you fax me the ingredient list?
32:50
So they said, OK, no problem, they fax it to him.
32:53
And if he wasn't 100% sure and he was very, very knowledgeable,
32:59
he would ask his brother-in-law who is a chemist, hey, would you
33:02
know all these list of chemicals make a strawberry flavor?
33:06
So smart. He he gets the fax, he looks it
33:09
over and he's not sure. So he asks his brother-in-law,
33:15
hey, would you know this list of it of chemicals make a
33:20
strawberry flavor? So he said correct.
33:36
So he asked his brother-in-law. They went through the whole
33:39
thing. There was no chance that this
33:43
ingredient list would ever make a strawberry flavor.
33:47
So he calls up China and once again, this is something that
33:52
needs to be done. He calls up the guy in China and
33:55
says either you think I'm a fool or I don't, but the list of
34:05
ingredients that you made will never make a strong.
34:10
So lose my number. I will never.
34:13
Well, there's a remote like that, right?
34:16
It's some inside a Hass here a day.
34:17
I think it's Aphala, right? Where it right, Ada Ada Khaneman
34:20
be Surin is not does not apply to gentiles so, so easily when
34:24
it's we're talking about cautious, right, Because I mean,
34:28
think about it. If you're a Jew, you're going to
34:29
care a lot, right? But if you're a gentile and
34:31
you're not going to care so much because that's that's not your
34:34
religious subset. Yeah, but if you are going to,
34:38
if you want your product to be, you want to start at you the
34:43
term mess, you know, try to hoodwink the rabbi to give you a
34:46
Superman. You know there are morals out
34:51
there. Well, well, when you strip away,
34:53
when you strip away what they call a judeo-christian ethics.
34:57
So what morals are there? I'll remind you, you know,
34:59
Breidowitz said something that I absolutely loved.
35:02
There's the Gemara in Bubba Mitzia.
35:04
There's a line in the Talmud that says that Akame no Adam.
35:09
OK, Which in inappropriate. Yeah.
35:11
Which Which is a great question to just ask.
35:13
Grab a brighto. It's like that.
35:14
It was one of the early ASK projects from Corey Gilshu's
35:17
theory also had on the show. But this is one of the questions
35:20
that he asked him inappropriately translated.
35:24
Akame no Adam means a gentile is not man.
35:27
It's not true. That's not what it means.
35:29
It means Akame no Adam that the idol worshipper is not man.
35:34
So he explained so beautifully, he said, well, what was the like
35:38
common religion in the time of the penning of the Talmud.
35:42
He says you have Roman mythology and Greek mythology.
35:45
So you have Zeus raping this person and this person is
35:49
sleeping around at that person and that one has this God has
35:52
killed that demigod and XYZ says if that that's and those are
35:56
your gods, that's your religion. This is what you worship.
36:00
Akum ain't no Adam as I'm saying that that they don't have souls.
36:03
They have souls. It's it's a it's a explicit
36:06
verse in Genesis. That's not the problem, but it's
36:09
if your morals are based off of not Judaism or if your morals
36:14
are based off of classic Pagan religions.
36:17
So you're not going to have those those morals.
36:19
So yes, maybe Josh, there are no morals if you don't have what we
36:22
have. It is sad.
36:24
And I said that's a great story. Do you like the copious
36:26
industry? Do you feel that it treats you
36:28
fairly? Say that like, no, sorry, go
36:35
ahead. Yeah.
36:37
It's like anything else, you know, there are times that are
36:42
more simple and it's Lahovia at least know there are times that
36:48
are better than it, that are harder.
36:50
You know, when as before going down to just, you know, 2
36:54
distributors or whatever it's and I hope that.
36:57
That sounds like a. Don't.
37:00
Absolutely. I mean, have there been
37:02
something stuff like that similar that's happened in
37:04
history that you can refer to, but no.
37:06
Listen. OK, so this is a huge problem.
37:08
OK, So should everyone buy their chicken now?
37:11
Yeah. OK.
37:12
That's one of the major suppliers that does a lot.
37:18
I don't know if you have any talk about listeners, but you
37:23
know it they do sure. How is under the CHA, which is,
37:27
you know, the base that's big. Right.
37:31
Yeah. The next.
37:33
One, I will say that you. Know, but I don't know if can
37:37
you know ramp up and and take the such a massive.
37:42
Right. I will say one really beautiful
37:44
thing, which is not that I just because my specialty isn't in
37:47
conscious, I mean, I'm not a little bit familiar, but the
37:50
fact that we can nitpick like this over cautious is just I
37:53
know that there's a lot of, you know, especially for Someone
37:55
Like You and the industry, there's a lot of fancy footwork,
37:58
but for for the consumer or as a rub, it's really beautiful in a
38:02
lot of ways because there's so much sensitivity to detail and
38:07
there's so much more learning and focus on, on just following
38:12
more than what the law requires because we have the luxury to do
38:15
so. You know, like 150 years ago in
38:17
the shtetl and then you had one guy and that's pretty much it.
38:21
And now you have like, you know, 30 or 4 at least scenario to
38:24
solve for sure. But in America you have also
38:26
plethora of options. Not as much as we do, but.
38:28
Right behind hold on in terms of cautious or cautious.
38:32
Cautious. Cautious, Yeah.
38:33
No, we have obviously there. There's the major, you know, the
38:38
OU, the Huff K, the star K, you know the big ones.
38:41
But then you know the CRC, which one?
38:44
The one out of California, the one Chicago.
38:47
But then if you go on the Chicago Levitical Council, the
38:51
CRC website, you know they list the approved ones to them, which
38:57
you know, takes up if you print, that is, you know, probably 2.
39:00
Three, which is awesome, right, that sensitivity to detail.
39:03
I think that that's really amazing.
39:04
And you know, think of how many people also it saves in the 70s,
39:09
you know, if you were not such an affiliated Jew, you know,
39:11
keeping some level of cautious was really difficult.
39:14
Now you just see a know you or a star K.
39:17
I'm not getting into any, you know, controversy here of who's
39:20
what and what and what. But like you just pick one of
39:22
those up, you'll be OK. And I think that's great.
39:24
I think it's a beautiful thing. OK, last, last topic, Josh,
39:28
you've made it this far, OK, being a Jew in the business.
39:31
So OK, you are you are a, an owner of a kosher restaurant and
39:36
we've discussed some of the difficulties there and some of
39:39
the challenges. But you're not the owner of a
39:41
Jewish restaurant. You're a Jew who's the owner of
39:43
a Jewish restaurant. So why do you think that?
39:46
What unique things and experiences and sensitivities
39:49
are you bringing to the table that you think that other owners
39:52
of Jewish restaurants that may not be Jewish perhaps don't have
39:56
to face or aren't a sensitive to yes.
39:59
I would say that's Jewish. And since we have this wonderful
40:04
trait called Jewish guilt, you know, we tried to then what
40:12
people? For example, my grandfather was
40:16
a kosher butcher in Jersey City in the 40s and 50s.
40:23
So isn't it? But you also had this.
40:26
This was your scale also. You know, you knew what a pound
40:29
of so my father says and my my grandmother, she should rest in
40:34
peace, said that, you know, your grandfather somewhat her a pound
40:39
got a pound. He got a pound plus because what
40:43
if the scale is a little bit? I don't want to charge her a
40:46
pound and and give him nine. That's not, you know, the moral.
40:52
We are a chosen nation. We're supposed and and to dupe
40:56
someone out when paying off their fee, you know by giving
41:01
them less than you know I tolding them not an option.
41:05
It's absolutely. Have you ever had clients be
41:07
confused because of that sensitivity that you have?
41:10
Like you're just giving them more and they're like, oh, I
41:11
didn't pay for that or, or anything like that.
41:13
No, because it comes in the container.
41:15
So you're, you're not going to wait, you're going to.
41:18
But no, I need to make sure that I'm happy that I spend, that
41:23
you're happy, that you feel like I'm not going to tell you.
41:27
Oh hey, I threw dry. So does that mean that if I come
41:30
and get my beef and broccoli by eating walk, Josh, that you're
41:33
going to throw in an extra extra serving for me?
41:35
Is that what you're telling me? If you?
41:37
Come to America. First of all, I invited.
41:40
You were here. If you do, no, no, no, no.
41:43
I'll pay for it, but you have to sit down.
41:45
We have to eat together. That I definitely want.
41:48
OK, fine. No, I don't have a plan.
41:53
You know, when am I going to have a plan trip for anywhere?
41:56
I was just, I was just in Greece two months ago.
41:59
I bought the flight to go 30 hours before the flight, I think
42:04
because that's when I figured out that, oh, it makes sense.
42:06
And so, you know, so am I going? I could be in America in two
42:09
days for all I know. Actually, no, because I'd be
42:10
Shabbos. But no, I, I wouldn't know.
42:14
But if I'm in New York, I'm going to knock on your door.
42:17
If you would be coming here on Shabbos, then I don't think this
42:20
part. I agree there any closing
42:23
remarks you want to leave with their listeners, Josh?
42:24
Other than of course, everyone should frequent Josh Berkowitz's
42:27
Eden Walk like some up. They're delicious.
42:29
I'm sure as I'm going to find out myself eventually.
42:32
But any closing remarks, Josh? No, I think we covered the gamut
42:36
as I when I first asked you know how this would be, as you said
42:41
before, and I said to wrap this up in 5 minutes be 15.
42:46
We're now, according to my phone, at almost 50.
42:48
Well, that's why they pay me the no bucks to be a rabbi.
42:51
See, we're wise. Everybody.
42:55
Thank you so much for watching. They they say you get, you know.
42:59
Yeah, well, we'll find out. I mean, I don't plan on dying.
43:02
I plan to just go up in a fire chariot.
43:04
I don't actually plan to die, but we'll see.
43:08
No, Alicia, you should. Elliot.
43:10
Yeah. I'm going to live forever.
43:11
Let's do it. Why not?
43:14
I work. Greg Fryakov.
43:16
Yeah, who was also Yakov does it not, David?
43:21
No, not David, wasn't you show yo No, Alicia, no, you shot
43:26
wasn't you Shia? Wasn't it you Shia?
43:28
Now who goes up in the in the Merkava, wasn't it?
43:30
I think that was a Shia. I bet you as a Shia, someone has
43:34
to correct me in the and now I'm a lit fish Rabbi.
43:37
We're not allowed to know. Nah, so it's not doesn't really
43:40
mean anything, right. OK, I say that in jest.
43:45
I love not. But in any event, Josh, thank
43:48
you so much for being with us here today.
43:50
I learned a lot and I had a lot of fun.
43:51
This is a a really light conversation which which which
43:54
was fun for me. All right, everybody take care.